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HomeMy WebLinkAboutAC 07-28-2026 Youtube and Zoom TranscriptWEBVTT 1 00:17:50.570 --> 00:17:51.350 Conf. Room A: Earth. 2 00:17:52.620 --> 00:17:59.200 Conf. Room A: If we're live, then I'll call the, special meeting of the Audit Committee on July 28th. 3 00:17:59.420 --> 00:18:04.100 Conf. Room A: You know, to order, and… City staff, can we have a roll call? 4 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:09.409 Conf. Room A: Vice Mayor Xiao? Here. Mayor Moore? Here. Here. 5 00:18:12.930 --> 00:18:13.930 Conf. Room A: Super. 6 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:21.379 Conf. Room A: Okay, so everybody, who's watching live and, in person, we've had, 7 00:18:21.490 --> 00:18:28.190 Conf. Room A: a bit of a scramble here, but we're excited to have our meeting, and we'll get started. 8 00:18:29.390 --> 00:18:40.990 Conf. Room A: Are there any oral communications, that you see virtually? I don't see anyone in the room here. Chair, I see new requests virtually, and your request personally. Thank you. 9 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:44.910 Conf. Room A: So we'll move to the consent calendar, then. 10 00:18:45.020 --> 00:18:49.200 Conf. Room A: And there's 3 items on our agenda in there, and I have, 11 00:18:49.610 --> 00:18:52.140 Conf. Room A: A bit of experience, and we've got, 12 00:18:52.440 --> 00:19:00.629 Conf. Room A: I should introduce the Vice Mayor here. We're lucky to have a quorum, and the Vice Mayor is representing, 13 00:19:00.700 --> 00:19:09.080 Conf. Room A: Ray Wong as an alternate, I think is the way it works, so thank you very much for fitting us into your schedule so we can have our meeting here. 14 00:19:09.080 --> 00:19:24.079 Conf. Room A: We're handling consent items, and we can ask questions if we have a question, otherwise, no, we can't deliberate unless we pull an item. So, I do have a question on the second item to get us started, but I don't want to pull it 15 00:19:24.120 --> 00:19:36.950 Conf. Room A: I think it's a simple enough one, in regard to… Dennis, thank you very much for adding page 16 of 33 in the PDF. Dennis is a representative of 16 00:19:37.040 --> 00:19:46.620 Conf. Room A: U.S. Bank, thanks for attending. But the page 16 is an attribution of, 17 00:19:46.860 --> 00:20:01.460 Conf. Room A: I suppose our dip… the city's different achievement versus the index, and it's very nice to have that in there. I wondered if, as elucidating for a minute or two, you could just explain 18 00:20:01.470 --> 00:20:09.690 Conf. Room A: A bit about how that table works, and primarily there's an attribution on the 19 00:20:10.090 --> 00:20:26.969 Conf. Room A: The commodity line shows a positive 0.45% attribution, even though both portfolios have a zero allocation to commodities. And that maybe is a springboard for maybe briefly explaining how that works. 20 00:20:30.820 --> 00:20:32.349 Dennis S Mullins: Well, sure, thank you. 21 00:20:32.830 --> 00:20:37.790 Dennis S Mullins: that… The simple explanation for that is by… is that, 22 00:20:39.740 --> 00:20:43.539 Dennis S Mullins: In the old benchmark, we had the 2% allocation to the 23 00:20:43.700 --> 00:20:49.380 Dennis S Mullins: to the, commodity benchmark. So, if you look at the, well, let me walk you through this real quick. 24 00:20:49.690 --> 00:20:53.430 Dennis S Mullins: Here's the benchmark composition in the upper left-hand corner. 25 00:20:53.680 --> 00:21:01.460 Dennis S Mullins: So… For stocks, we use the MSCI All-Country World Index. For bonds, we use the Bloomberg Aggregate. 26 00:21:01.780 --> 00:21:14.580 Dennis S Mullins: There's an S&P Global REIT index for real estate, and then that next one says S&P GSCI. That's the Commodity Index. That stands for S&P Goldman Sachs Commodity Index. 27 00:21:15.250 --> 00:21:20.140 Dennis S Mullins: And then the last one is, a 3-month T-bill index for the cash. 28 00:21:20.990 --> 00:21:32.180 Dennis S Mullins: And remember, the index… idea of the index is to, is… the best quote I ever saw was, it should represent the pond from which we are fishing for investments. So. 29 00:21:32.570 --> 00:21:37.169 Dennis S Mullins: It represents the entire, 30 00:21:37.310 --> 00:21:42.639 Dennis S Mullins: Global, public investment opportunity set. 31 00:21:43.670 --> 00:21:55.620 Dennis S Mullins: The next column you'll see is as of 7-1 of 26, we have a new benchmark that's in your most recently updated investment policy. It is very close to the old benchmark, just a tiny little change. 32 00:21:56.350 --> 00:22:08.460 Dennis S Mullins: But the old benchmark is the second column, and since that runs through June 30, that's the one we're using here. So we're using a benchmark of 63% and a CI All Country World Index. 33 00:22:08.650 --> 00:22:16.489 Dennis S Mullins: 29% bonds, 5% REITs, 2% commodities, GSCI, and 1% cash. 34 00:22:16.860 --> 00:22:20.280 Dennis S Mullins: Now, to answer your question, the reason. 35 00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:24.020 Conf. Room A: Yup. 36 00:22:24.340 --> 00:22:28.170 Dennis S Mullins: It was beneficial because commodity performance down. 37 00:22:29.550 --> 00:22:30.260 Dennis S Mullins: Yep. 38 00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:38.069 Conf. Room A: Dennis, I'm not sure we heard your complete sentence. I might… could you repeat what you just said? My apologies. 39 00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:44.419 Dennis S Mullins: Oh, sure. The reason it was, beneficial, to performance 40 00:22:44.580 --> 00:22:50.100 Dennis S Mullins: To not own any commodities is because in the quarter, and this whole chart right here is for the one quarter. 41 00:22:51.880 --> 00:23:00.640 Dennis S Mullins: Because during the quarter, it would have reduced performance, it would have detracted from performance if we had owned commodities. 42 00:23:03.310 --> 00:23:05.120 Dennis S Mullins: So we picked up a little bit. 43 00:23:05.380 --> 00:23:06.610 Dennis S Mullins: So… 44 00:23:06.870 --> 00:23:13.229 Dennis S Mullins: So the way that… let's go over to the pension box. The way that the attribution report works… 45 00:23:14.500 --> 00:23:20.150 Dennis S Mullins: Is… there's a column for selection, and this is the effect on the performance 46 00:23:20.590 --> 00:23:24.270 Dennis S Mullins: For whether or not you had, 47 00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:28.740 Dennis S Mullins: You, you had investments in that, in that category. 48 00:23:31.170 --> 00:23:41.689 Dennis S Mullins: And did they, the whole idea of selection, did your selections do better than the benchmark, or worse? And so you can see… 49 00:23:41.830 --> 00:23:48.100 Dennis S Mullins: What we do is, for the top line there, the stocks, we take the return of your stocks. 50 00:23:48.710 --> 00:23:52.250 Dennis S Mullins: Minus the return of the benchmark, and you can see the selection 51 00:23:53.290 --> 00:23:58.189 Dennis S Mullins: The selection attribution on that top line was minus .31. That means 52 00:23:59.140 --> 00:24:03.769 Dennis S Mullins: That means the benchmark did a little bit better than what we selected. 53 00:24:05.390 --> 00:24:07.179 Dennis S Mullins: The next column is weighted. 54 00:24:07.420 --> 00:24:09.680 Dennis S Mullins: And… and that represents… did… 55 00:24:09.790 --> 00:24:14.969 Dennis S Mullins: If you were overweighted in an investment that did really well, that would be beneficial, and so… 56 00:24:15.450 --> 00:24:25.099 Dennis S Mullins: If you were underweighted in an investment category that did very poorly, that would be beneficial. And then the opposite of those two would be a detraction. 57 00:24:26.030 --> 00:24:28.550 Dennis S Mullins: There's an interaction. 58 00:24:28.830 --> 00:24:34.699 Dennis S Mullins: component, I'm not gonna get into the math of that, but then there's a portfolio total. 59 00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:37.039 Dennis S Mullins: And that portfolio total is… 60 00:24:37.280 --> 00:24:45.629 Dennis S Mullins: The stocks in your portfolio did a little bit below what the stocks in the benchmark did in total, so minus .23%. 61 00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:53.570 Dennis S Mullins: If you add up that column, portfolio total, it comes to 0.26, or 26 basis points. 62 00:24:54.070 --> 00:25:02.480 Dennis S Mullins: And then if you go down below, under total portfolio return for the quarter, you'll see net return was 10.11% for the portfolio. 63 00:25:02.670 --> 00:25:11.130 Dennis S Mullins: The benchmark was 9.85, the variance was 0.26, and so that box up there explains the variance. 64 00:25:11.650 --> 00:25:15.759 Dennis S Mullins: So, good news is, we outperformed the benchmark just a little bit. 65 00:25:16.340 --> 00:25:18.749 Dennis S Mullins: And then the box shows HAL. 66 00:25:19.100 --> 00:25:30.319 Dennis S Mullins: And to kind of sum this up in plain language, I put a little paragraph down below, slight positive, and this applies to both portfolios, by the way, because they're managed almost identically. 67 00:25:31.470 --> 00:25:37.599 Dennis S Mullins: Slight positive variance in the quarter from both bonds… I'm sorry, from bonds due to high yield exposure. 68 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:45.759 Dennis S Mullins: The benchmark does not include high-yield exposure. The portfolio does, so there's a little bit of a mismatch, intentional mismatch. 69 00:25:45.890 --> 00:25:47.870 Dennis S Mullins: And it paid off in the quarter. 70 00:25:50.060 --> 00:25:58.209 Dennis S Mullins: Real Estate Deluxe, The real estate portfolio total number was… was positive. 9 basis points. 71 00:25:58.540 --> 00:26:04.089 Dennis S Mullins: And global infrastructure, we did a little better there, so that was additive. 72 00:26:04.840 --> 00:26:07.520 Dennis S Mullins: Stocks slightly underperformed. 73 00:26:08.080 --> 00:26:14.149 Dennis S Mullins: Performance of stocks was helped, however, by our allocation to small cap, which is not in the index. 74 00:26:15.450 --> 00:26:16.470 Dennis S Mullins: then… 75 00:26:17.530 --> 00:26:26.509 Dennis S Mullins: I mentioned in here, large stocks were up 15%, small stocks were up 21, so that's why it was beneficial to have some small stocks. 76 00:26:27.250 --> 00:26:32.340 Dennis S Mullins: Detracting from stock performance was our slight underweight to emerging markets. 77 00:26:32.670 --> 00:26:37.780 Dennis S Mullins: So, the benchmark for stocks is the MSCI All-Country World Index. 78 00:26:38.290 --> 00:26:43.170 Dennis S Mullins: I'm replicating that with several mutual funds, one for U.S. stocks. 79 00:26:43.320 --> 00:26:47.489 Dennis S Mullins: One for developed foreign stocks, one for emerging foreign stocks. 80 00:26:47.750 --> 00:26:54.819 Dennis S Mullins: And my percentages are always a little off, because it's very difficult to replicate that exactly. 81 00:26:55.620 --> 00:26:59.560 Dennis S Mullins: And so that explains why we're off the benchmark just a little bit. 82 00:27:00.770 --> 00:27:13.899 Conf. Room A: Nope, I think that's… that's great, Dennis. I just wanted to highlight your question. My question you've answered, fully, and I wanted to highlight it. Thank you very much, and I expect that we'll… we'll have many more 83 00:27:14.310 --> 00:27:20.760 Conf. Room A: chances to interact with this, in future quarters, so thanks again for working it through for us. 84 00:27:20.870 --> 00:27:36.239 Conf. Room A: Yeah, any other questions for clarification on the consent items in all three? Thank you. I was wondering, Jonathan, if you had a chance to look at my questions that I sent in, regarding… 85 00:27:36.520 --> 00:27:44.100 Conf. Room A: having, the 115 and OPEB have pretty much the same percentage in equities. 86 00:27:46.640 --> 00:28:03.000 Conf. Room A: So the… I think that one of the questions that you had is, is there a shorter horizon for pension versus, OPEB? In short, I don't think there's necessarily, because you're… we look from the perspective of a retiree, right, pensions kind of 87 00:28:03.140 --> 00:28:17.040 Conf. Room A: would be long-term, right? Same thing with OPEB. However, what the… the use of those pensions versus… or how we're able to utilize a trust for the pension versus OPEB could be strategic… are strategically different. 88 00:28:17.040 --> 00:28:27.189 Conf. Room A: from the OPEC perspective, and I think you highlighted it, is on a downturn of an economy, if the pension didn't perform well, and to maintain a… 89 00:28:27.190 --> 00:28:39.639 Conf. Room A: in a desired level of, funding status, we can draw on that pension, and provide it to CalPERS to help pay for our unfunded accrued liability, or UAL. 90 00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:55.679 Conf. Room A: Whereas with the OPEB, we can… and this is conversations I've been having with Tina, and a third party would be to assess, our… use it similarly, but, as of today, we're a bit overfunded, so if we need to draw 91 00:28:55.680 --> 00:29:10.310 Conf. Room A: on it to assist with, a budget constraints, right? And so we can draw on that to help pay for our recovery benefits. And so there… you can use them similarly, but for different purposes, and there's different restrictions on 92 00:29:10.310 --> 00:29:21.099 Conf. Room A: Both, both in terms of reporting on our financials, and, and, and, but the method where the investment policies are essentially the same. We have the same 93 00:29:21.350 --> 00:29:23.529 Conf. Room A: Investment strategies for both. 94 00:29:23.830 --> 00:29:35.499 Conf. Room A: Could you explain, if there was a downturn and CalPERS wanted to raise our contribution? Does that… is that… 95 00:29:35.740 --> 00:29:47.710 Conf. Room A: What happens? Helpers would have to… it has to hit a certain, threshold before they can assess whether they want to change their, 96 00:29:47.710 --> 00:30:08.389 Conf. Room A: discount rate, which would then ultimately change how much this… each agency would have to be contributing, because then, in turn, that'll also change our… your fund status, right? And so… but that goes through a full process that needs to go to their board, they need to approve it and whatnot, and then it gets kind of trickled down. And it's not immediate, usually there's, like, a two-year 97 00:30:08.390 --> 00:30:19.609 Conf. Room A: period in which it goes into effect. So it gives agencies enough time to essentially shift a little bit and kind of understand how that adjustment to the discount rate will affect their funding status. 98 00:30:19.610 --> 00:30:27.209 Conf. Room A: Okay, and the other question I had was the $19 million jump in the general fund, 99 00:30:27.210 --> 00:30:41.350 Conf. Room A: What was going on there? There's, actually, I had Richard look into this for me, and I have some, some data points here, but I'd like him to take a stab at this one first. We're going to the Treasurer's, report there, Matt? Yeah. 100 00:30:41.450 --> 00:30:45.059 Conf. Room A: Item 3 on the consent, calendar. 101 00:30:47.070 --> 00:30:47.950 Conf. Room A: Richard? 102 00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:49.729 Richard Wong: Hi, yeah, hi, everyone. 103 00:30:49.990 --> 00:30:57.540 Richard Wong: So, OPEB had an increase in 2.6 million, as far as, From prior quarter. 104 00:30:57.830 --> 00:31:04.280 Richard Wong: And property tax, the balance there is a total of $7 million received. 105 00:31:04.470 --> 00:31:11.129 Richard Wong: In the fourth quarter, And that's a $1.2 million increase from Q3. 106 00:31:11.690 --> 00:31:18.920 Richard Wong: For sales tax, we had a balance of, $7 million received. 107 00:31:19.220 --> 00:31:24.510 Richard Wong: in the fourth quarter, with a $1.1 million increase from Q3. 108 00:31:25.030 --> 00:31:34.129 Richard Wong: And the annual, excess ERAF receipt came through… In the fourth quarter. 109 00:31:34.350 --> 00:31:36.980 Richard Wong: And that was for $1.3 million. 110 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:42.569 Richard Wong: And the last, major receipt we had to make up the $19 million. 111 00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:48.289 Richard Wong: is PG&E's franchise fee, which is an annual receipt, for $1.4 million. 112 00:31:50.430 --> 00:32:05.289 Conf. Room A: So, in short, there was about $40 million in revenue that the city generated last quarter versus the $20 million, just specifically for the general fund, that it expensed. Now. 113 00:32:05.290 --> 00:32:18.599 Conf. Room A: kind of, we're starting to accrue back as we're at year- end, so some of those numbers are going to be shifting a little bit as we kind of move away, but from a cash perspective, we saw almost twice as much revenue for that one quarter versus expenditures, is the short. 114 00:32:19.190 --> 00:32:29.240 Conf. Room A: So will that, when it goes to the Council, can that be added into the report? Okay, we'll adjust the report to reflect that, that additional detail. 115 00:32:29.350 --> 00:32:30.230 Conf. Room A: It creates… 116 00:32:30.410 --> 00:32:38.540 Conf. Room A: And thank you for adding the CALFIT. I think it's under consent. It is, it's in the Treasurer's report. 117 00:32:38.710 --> 00:32:41.310 Conf. Room A: Any other clarifying questions? 118 00:32:44.060 --> 00:32:48.050 Conf. Room A: Being none, are there any comments from the public? 119 00:32:49.220 --> 00:32:51.070 Conf. Room A: I see none in this room. 120 00:32:52.360 --> 00:33:07.050 Conf. Room A: Chair, I see no requests to speak virtually, and we have no requests in person. Excellent, thank you for that. So, I would welcome a motion. More, I moved, the consent calendar. 121 00:33:07.300 --> 00:33:13.829 Conf. Room A: Excellent, we've got a second, and we've got a motion. I'm not going to repeat that. 122 00:33:14.030 --> 00:33:17.350 Conf. Room A: Any further comments on the motion? 123 00:33:17.500 --> 00:33:22.700 Conf. Room A: I… let's take a vote. All in favor, aye. Aye. Aye. 124 00:33:22.860 --> 00:33:26.960 Conf. Room A: Unanimous of the three in the room, and thank you very much. 125 00:33:27.090 --> 00:33:36.359 Conf. Room A: And Chair, for the record, in addition to Councilmember Wong being absent, Committee Member Wong is also absent. Oh, yeah, thank you for that. True. 126 00:33:36.750 --> 00:33:49.849 Conf. Room A: Okay, so moving on to new business, our Item 4 is an informational item received the fiscal year 2025-26 Act for Interim Room Testing Update. 127 00:33:49.930 --> 00:33:59.189 Conf. Room A: And I think, we're gonna go right to, the pun group, or… Richard will introduce the pun group. Richard will introduce, thank you, Richard Wong. 128 00:33:59.800 --> 00:34:06.820 Richard Wong: Yeah, hi. So, we are in year 4 of our 5-year contract with our external auditors, the Pun Group. 129 00:34:06.930 --> 00:34:23.079 Richard Wong: Our interim audit started in May, and Sophia here, the Pun Group's assurance partner, is here today to provide an update on our fiscal year 25-26 act for interim audit testing, and to answer any questions you may have. 130 00:34:23.860 --> 00:34:24.190 Sophia Kuo: Thank you. 131 00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:26.079 Conf. Room A: Thank you. Welcome, Sophia. 132 00:34:26.080 --> 00:34:40.349 Sophia Kuo: Thank you, good evening, committee chair, and then, community members, and also the city's management. Again, this is Sophia from the Penn Group. I'm the engagement partner for the city's Audit, and, thank you for having me here today. 133 00:34:40.350 --> 00:34:57.069 Sophia Kuo: So, like Richard mentioned, I would like to give an update on where we are at for fiscal year 25-26 audit. So, he also mentioned, we started intern field work back in May, and with the focuses on the evaluating the city's internal control. So… 134 00:34:57.390 --> 00:35:19.019 Sophia Kuo: over the significant transaction cycles, that includes financial reporting, so we evaluate the manual journal entry process, bank reconciliation process, and also the city's budget process as well, and also the revenue collection, cash receipt process, procurement, expenditures, as well as payroll, and then HR-related functions. 135 00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:43.689 Sophia Kuo: And, again, we started the fieldwork in late May, and then we completely… we substantially completed our interim fieldwork around the June timeframe, with no observations or findings to report. And I also would like to take this opportunity to briefly discuss the new Gatsby pronouncements that would be effective for 136 00:35:43.690 --> 00:35:48.739 Sophia Kuo: For fiscal year 25-26, and it will be impacting the financial statements that 137 00:35:48.740 --> 00:35:51.510 Sophia Kuo: will be presented to you in November. 138 00:35:51.510 --> 00:35:57.449 Sophia Kuo: And, the first one is Gatsby 103, Financial Reporting Model Improvements. 139 00:35:57.490 --> 00:36:02.990 Sophia Kuo: And the second one is Gatsby 104, disclosure of Certain Capital Assets. 140 00:36:03.040 --> 00:36:18.080 Sophia Kuo: So, we have been working with the city's management to determine the impact of these two Gatsby pronouncements. The Gatsby 103 is relatively higher than Gatsby 104. So, the biggest changes, impacts on… 141 00:36:18.140 --> 00:36:22.340 Sophia Kuo: are on the MDNA management discussion and analysis. 142 00:36:22.520 --> 00:36:47.070 Sophia Kuo: So, because of the change, the city's management will need to rewrite and reorganize the MDNA with only 5 components required by the standard. So, component number one is overview of the financial statements, show how the financial statements flow through from fund statement to government Y, and also the no disclosure, and required supplementary information, supplementary 143 00:36:47.070 --> 00:36:49.860 Sophia Kuo: How the financial statement look like. 144 00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:56.999 Sophia Kuo: And the second component is the financial statement summaries. The third one is the detailed analysis of the 145 00:36:57.490 --> 00:37:06.789 Sophia Kuo: The transaction happened during the year, with a focus on the current year operations, instead of only focusing on the dollar amount or percentage changes. 146 00:37:06.970 --> 00:37:13.899 Sophia Kuo: The fourth component is the significant capital assets and long-term financing activities. 147 00:37:13.900 --> 00:37:38.209 Sophia Kuo: And the fifth one is the currently known facts decision and long-term, and conditions, such as the new labor negotiation, if any, and also the maybe potential pension discount rate changes. If that happens, it also needs to be discussed in the MDNA. And other than MDNA changes, another two significant changes from this, 148 00:37:38.210 --> 00:37:39.450 Sophia Kuo: Upon announcements. 149 00:37:39.530 --> 00:37:52.590 Sophia Kuo: The first one, another one is the proprietary fund operating and non-operating revenue expenses classification to present a statement of revenue, expenses, and changes in fund balance, properly. 150 00:37:53.040 --> 00:38:07.210 Sophia Kuo: And another one is adding, adding a column on the budgetary comparison schedule, include, including the variances between original and final budget, and… 151 00:38:07.330 --> 00:38:31.259 Sophia Kuo: And another change on the budgetary comparison schedule is to provide notes with the significant variances on the original budget, and then final budget, and also the final budget, and then the final result. So, to provide explanations why those significant variances happen during the year. In terms of Gatsby 104, 152 00:38:31.420 --> 00:38:48.449 Sophia Kuo: The anticipated impact of Gasby 104 on the City's financial statements is expected to be minimum, but we will continue to evaluate the implementation and then to determine whether any potential impacts as part of our year-end audit process. 153 00:38:48.490 --> 00:39:00.590 Sophia Kuo: So, overall, we remain on track to begin our year-end fieldwork in late September, which is consistent with our schedule in prior years. 154 00:39:00.590 --> 00:39:07.009 Sophia Kuo: Assuming that we receive the trial balance and also all the requested audit documentation as planned. 155 00:39:07.010 --> 00:39:28.649 Sophia Kuo: And there are no significant issues during the audit. We anticipate to provide a draft of the effort to the committee for review due in the second half of November, and so that we can meet and present in late November or early December, depending on everybody's availability. 156 00:39:28.770 --> 00:39:37.890 Sophia Kuo: And this will conclude my update for fiscal year 25-26 Audit. I will be happy to answer any questions that you may have. 157 00:39:38.590 --> 00:39:44.720 Conf. Room A: Thank you, Sophia. Let me ask the committee, any… anyone have a clarifying question? 158 00:39:46.550 --> 00:39:48.190 Conf. Room A: I always have some, but… 159 00:39:48.830 --> 00:40:01.190 Conf. Room A: You guys get to go first. Okay, I'm curious what… what they mean by… and is it GASB 103 or 104 that wants to, have information about the original and final budget? 160 00:40:01.340 --> 00:40:06.000 Conf. Room A: changes? So, which one is it, and what does that actually mean? 161 00:40:07.260 --> 00:40:24.230 Sophia Kuo: So, the original schedule, we, we… I mean, the original schedule shows the original adopted budget and final budget, and there, there is a column for variance column, compared the, final budget to the, final result. 162 00:40:24.230 --> 00:40:36.079 Sophia Kuo: And then, because of this new change, we need to add an additional column to show the variance from the original budget to the final budget during the year. The city might have budget amendments. 163 00:40:36.080 --> 00:40:47.309 Sophia Kuo: And the mid-year budget adjustments, so this is a new requirement. There's additional column need to be added to calculate the difference between the original budget and final budget. 164 00:40:51.220 --> 00:40:53.789 Sophia Kuo: On the financial… it's also on the presentation. 165 00:40:55.570 --> 00:41:02.040 Conf. Room A: As I remember, the MD&A had quite a bit on those changes anyways, didn't it, Jonathan? 166 00:41:02.430 --> 00:41:13.689 Conf. Room A: So, this doesn't really… maybe the city was providing additional information that was above the minimal requirement? No, the MD&A, 167 00:41:13.910 --> 00:41:32.759 Conf. Room A: had various components that, well, historically, was kind of followed a very somewhat rigid structure, and so every year we would have to at least meet those requirements, at least to present it to GEO for Wade and ensure that it's, to get the, certificate of excellence or achievement, 168 00:41:32.820 --> 00:41:35.000 Conf. Room A: So they're, 169 00:41:35.290 --> 00:41:48.369 Conf. Room A: as Sophia stated, so there's quite a bit of a difference as to how rigid the structure was to what it's going to be now, and there's just more… there's going to be more analysis, rather than just 170 00:41:48.370 --> 00:42:08.049 Conf. Room A: telling a story, right? That's what we're… they really want to… instead of saying, these numbers changed from 10 million to 15 million, we're like, well, why? Why did it change? And so, the question is going to be kind of further, why did something happen, and why did that happen? So, the MDNA is more of a storytelling. 171 00:42:08.140 --> 00:42:10.939 Conf. Room A: As to, rather than kind of just strictly 172 00:42:11.290 --> 00:42:15.739 Conf. Room A: this number went to this number. And so it's gonna be quite a change. 173 00:42:15.830 --> 00:42:33.249 Conf. Room A: from, prior years. So that's going to be a work in progress, between here and in November as far as kind of several different iterations and kind of back and forth between staff and the auditors to make sure that we're meeting the requirements as outlined by GFOA. 174 00:42:33.390 --> 00:42:35.739 Conf. Room A: Or the Gatsby. Follow along. 175 00:42:36.010 --> 00:42:44.609 Conf. Room A: So would that include if you had, like, a change in revenue, that you'd have to explain that? Certainly. 176 00:42:44.830 --> 00:42:46.569 Conf. Room A: Right, like, fully… 177 00:42:47.490 --> 00:42:59.519 Conf. Room A: So, obviously it would be, major changes. I mean, if it's probably, like, a 10% change for revenue, that's quite a change, right, from year over year. 178 00:42:59.520 --> 00:43:15.370 Conf. Room A: Now, we… I'm not sure to what extent do we need to include, budget to actuals in that situation, but, because that's, as we know now, one of the biggest variances that we're going to see next year, or for last year, is going to be sales taxes, right? 179 00:43:15.370 --> 00:43:20.269 Conf. Room A: And I think, kind of going into the detail, even though we don't want to keep bringing up CDTFA, 180 00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:24.589 Conf. Room A: It's still a, kind of, we're seeing some of the… 181 00:43:24.850 --> 00:43:33.039 Conf. Room A: How that's affected the city, and it will continue to affect the city until we've kind of normalized it, and it might take a couple more years before we see that. 182 00:43:34.040 --> 00:43:47.870 Conf. Room A: But, Sophia, can you, please answer which GASB pronouncement, would, require the city to include the variance, column in the budget to actuals, or Budget to… 183 00:43:48.530 --> 00:43:52.879 Sophia Kuo: This is Gatsby 103, the, financial reporting model improvements. 184 00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:56.519 Conf. Room A: Vice Mayor, you've got a question? 185 00:43:56.910 --> 00:43:58.120 Conf. Room A: Still… 186 00:43:58.570 --> 00:44:16.490 Conf. Room A: This item has no, attachment, right? And you mentioned the presentation, so I'm… is that available? It's just a verbal presentation, or an update to the Audit. Oh, so there is usually no written… 187 00:44:16.590 --> 00:44:27.979 Conf. Room A: Because it's a lot of information, right? Or, it would be nice to have a written update, because I can't remember all 188 00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:39.010 Conf. Room A: everything. And then, a very basic question. So, this update is a testing update for Ekvar. 189 00:44:39.120 --> 00:44:45.439 Conf. Room A: For internal control, what exactly you are doing for testing? 190 00:44:48.300 --> 00:45:01.910 Sophia Kuo: So, during, interim field work, that's the, like I mentioned earlier, it's our internal control evaluation phase. So it's based on our risk assessment. We identify significant transaction cycles. 191 00:45:01.910 --> 00:45:09.669 Sophia Kuo: And, like, so we evaluate the financial reporting process, that includes how the city processes bank reconciliation. 192 00:45:09.670 --> 00:45:12.800 Sophia Kuo: And also how the city processes cash receipts. 193 00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:16.469 Sophia Kuo: And also the payroll, how it was done, and… 194 00:45:16.500 --> 00:45:24.679 Sophia Kuo: And also how the procurement was executed, and all the way to the invoice process, and until the cash, the check cleared. 195 00:45:24.680 --> 00:45:43.220 Sophia Kuo: So that's the… that's… that's what we call internal control and intern field… intern field work. So that's what we… we test… we pick some… we got pop… we got, we… we got all our population, and then we pick samples, and we… and then we work with the city to get the support to complete our testing. 196 00:45:43.600 --> 00:45:44.990 Conf. Room A: Okay. 197 00:45:46.590 --> 00:45:54.919 Conf. Room A: Okay, my question is, we've had a change in finance directors, and, you know, congratulations to our new, 198 00:45:54.930 --> 00:46:08.320 Conf. Room A: one who's sitting in the room here, Jonathan, but I… I want to ask you, it's been a smooth transition, I presume, or you would have, highlighted some… some whatever non-smooth elements would have arisen? 199 00:46:09.060 --> 00:46:21.429 Sophia Kuo: I, I think, we have… I have… I personally have been working with, Jonathan since we started this contract, and then, the first year… the first year, because changing of new auditors, and then… 200 00:46:21.670 --> 00:46:46.620 Sophia Kuo: And then there were some hiccups, and then… so the first year, it took a little bit longer than what we anticipated, and then after… after the first year, the second year went really smoothly, and I think even… even with the transition and also the change that happened at the city, our intern really went really smoothly. That's why I can… I can be here today to present, and then there was really no finding and no observations from our intern 201 00:46:46.620 --> 00:46:48.540 Sophia Kuo: internal control evaluation phase. 202 00:46:49.030 --> 00:46:56.389 Conf. Room A: Great, thank you. All right, I don't see any comments from the public in the room. Are there any virtual? 203 00:46:56.680 --> 00:47:02.199 Conf. Room A: Moved here. Thank you. All right, why don't we move to a motion? 204 00:47:02.330 --> 00:47:12.510 Conf. Room A: We don't actually have a motion, I think it's an information item, so we'll accept it as an information item. Thank you, Sophia, and good luck on the rest of your work. We'll see you in November. 205 00:47:12.510 --> 00:47:13.610 Sophia Kuo: Thank you. 206 00:47:15.380 --> 00:47:31.910 Conf. Room A: So, on to item 5 on our agenda, also an informational item, and a number of internal audit, ones here we're going to have in sequence. This one is to receive the internal audit and the fraud, waste, and abuse programs update, and… 207 00:47:32.430 --> 00:47:38.210 Conf. Room A: I guess Baker Tilly's gonna go right in, or do we have a staff comment? Yeah, I think they can… 208 00:47:38.290 --> 00:48:02.869 Conf. Room A: Take your credit, Alex. Great. Thank you, Chelsea. Right, wonderful. Well, I will get us started. Great news, looking at the Grant Management Internal Control Review, this is going to be presented to you all today. This was the last item for fiscal year 24-25, and that has been finalized. So, really good news there. So then, looking at fiscal year 25-26 Internal Audit Program. 209 00:48:02.870 --> 00:48:15.580 Conf. Room A: The investment cash flow policy review recommendation. So this is still going, back and forth with City Management. I hope to have an update with you all in October on that one. 210 00:48:15.580 --> 00:48:31.200 Conf. Room A: And then the citywide internal control review. This one, we have been really busy at work, lots of different requests going back and forth, but I do believe that we will have a report to provide you all in the October timeframe for that. 211 00:48:31.590 --> 00:48:54.939 Conf. Room A: Of course, there is that ongoing internal audit services, that's what we do, why I'm here today, and also involves our fraud, waste, and abuse hotline. So going on to page number 2, you will see that there were no, no complaints that were received this time frame. But we do have those 8 212 00:48:54.940 --> 00:49:14.860 Conf. Room A: open reports still. I do want to say that those are still under the city attorney's review, but I have met with the city attorney as well as the city manager, and I think that there's going to be some new verbiage in the city, fraud, waste, and abuse policy that they're reviewing, so that hopefully these are going to be closed soon. 213 00:49:16.050 --> 00:49:19.670 Conf. Room A: Any questions before I move on to the validation report? 214 00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:24.699 Conf. Room A: I guess as a question, it, 215 00:49:24.890 --> 00:49:40.090 Conf. Room A: it would be helpful for me if we could title this second page Fraud, Waste, and Abuse Report. Okay. And I don't know if that's inconvenient or whatever, but a lot of these get posted on the website, and it's not… 216 00:49:40.200 --> 00:49:43.769 Conf. Room A: Maybe intuitive to people that aren't familiar with this. 217 00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:46.119 Conf. Room A: That this is representing that. 218 00:49:46.230 --> 00:49:49.290 Conf. Room A: we can easily get that fixed. Thank you. 219 00:49:49.780 --> 00:50:01.109 Conf. Room A: All right, any questions before moving on to the validation report piece of our ongoing internal audit services? Looks like we're good. Perfect. If you could bring up, actually, the PowerPoint. 220 00:50:04.650 --> 00:50:21.890 Conf. Room A: What, what you'll find is there were no validation, recommendations that we validated this quarter, and so I thought it would be a good reminder to, you know, why we're doing this process, and really what this serves. 221 00:50:36.680 --> 00:50:37.930 Conf. Room A: Alright. 222 00:50:39.790 --> 00:51:03.159 Conf. Room A: Perfect. So, going on to the second page, really, what is this program and the thing that we involve, the ongoing internal audit services? So this is a crucial step in the audit process, because believe it or not, it breaks my heart to say this, but sometimes reports are put on the wayside with management, right? So they get reports, they get recommendations, and nothing comes out of those recommendations. 223 00:51:03.160 --> 00:51:27.080 Conf. Room A: So this is a really great, mechanism and tool for the city to make sure that they're held accountable for making sure that they're effectively implementing those corrective actions, in the identified audit issues. So, what are we doing during this time? We're always reviewing documentation and evidence provided by the city to help remediate those recommendations. We will… 224 00:51:27.080 --> 00:51:40.309 Conf. Room A: talk to relevant stakeholders for clarification, any confirmation needed, and we really assess what steps the city has taken to make sure that they have remedied those recommendations. 225 00:51:40.380 --> 00:51:53.790 Conf. Room A: And it… so, once again, why do we do this? Why is this a healthy practice? It helps improve corrective actions, making sure everyone's accountable, and really supports that continuous improvement that the city is always looking for. 226 00:51:54.120 --> 00:51:56.580 Conf. Room A: So, next slide. 227 00:51:57.130 --> 00:52:14.150 Conf. Room A: So, back in fiscal year 25-26, we had 79 recommendations. We have validated 54 recommendations in our time here with the city, and there is still 25, that were open. 228 00:52:14.150 --> 00:52:23.959 Conf. Room A: This is really important, though, because, when talking to the city right before we were going to provide this information to, 229 00:52:24.010 --> 00:52:47.799 Conf. Room A: for this audit committee, there are 16 open recommendations that the city says that they have completed in July. So, I am really hopeful that next, quarter, I'm gonna have a lot to report in this area. So, 16 recommendations, I mean, then we'll only have 9 left for this, this entire thing, which is great. So next slide. 230 00:52:47.800 --> 00:52:56.849 Conf. Room A: This just kind of shows you those 25 open areas, and like I mentioned, we will have 16 remedied. 231 00:52:56.850 --> 00:52:59.469 Conf. Room A: Hopefully, by the next quarter. 232 00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:02.390 Conf. Room A: Any questions on that? 233 00:53:03.140 --> 00:53:04.630 Conf. Room A: Any questions? 234 00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:16.779 Conf. Room A: comments, great. Yeah, I'm excited. I do have a question in terms of the… the… it's great news that the 16, that's, 235 00:53:16.850 --> 00:53:27.940 Conf. Room A: unexpected from my side. There's… there's been some that are… went back to 2022, or… it's not… it's… my question is. 236 00:53:27.940 --> 00:53:42.920 Conf. Room A: I wonder if the 16 is going to address all the really old ones, or if it doesn't, if staff could work with you to maybe figure out a footnote that would indicate that maybe later in 2027, 237 00:53:42.940 --> 00:53:48.829 Conf. Room A: The really old ones, if there are any that aren't covered by the 16, when they might get addressed. 238 00:53:49.600 --> 00:54:14.509 Conf. Room A: And I think if you look at that last slide, and I'm sorry to keep on doing that to you, Janet, but that last slide does show… so staff did want to take that consideration. I think that was something that you had mentioned last time. And so the staff… what they have shown you is the expected completion date by quarter. So they're saying that by… This did look new to me. Yes. Yes, so this will… this kind of helps illustrate when those, 239 00:54:14.510 --> 00:54:16.969 Conf. Room A: findings will be remedied. So let's… 240 00:54:16.970 --> 00:54:23.040 Conf. Room A: So if you could help me then dive a little deeper, like, for example, on this other detail report, there was… 241 00:54:23.260 --> 00:54:33.450 Conf. Room A: four… well, I don't want to go into the details, but there were five that were in 2022. How would we use this report to see whether those are in the, 242 00:54:33.980 --> 00:54:36.450 Conf. Room A: 16, or remain to be. 243 00:54:36.450 --> 00:54:55.129 Conf. Room A: Those… you don't see that here, but as Chelsea was saying, we can probably, provide an updated report that kind of dials in on any outstanding of the 9 potential ones that are still outstanding, what period they are relayed to, and so you'd see, essentially, this, and… 244 00:54:55.130 --> 00:55:05.189 Conf. Room A: With the… that specific recommendation. Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, I think next time, when an update is provided, it will be great to have 245 00:55:05.260 --> 00:55:11.270 Conf. Room A: The list that's already verified, and especially the list that's open. 246 00:55:11.290 --> 00:55:23.169 Conf. Room A: Because I don't know where to start or even ask, because I don't know what these recommendations are. And also, I do wonder, when… 247 00:55:23.170 --> 00:55:31.690 Conf. Room A: We do a report, we do a recommendation, and then we start to implement. A lot of times, we find out there might be an adjustment. 248 00:55:31.690 --> 00:55:37.890 Conf. Room A: needed for… for those recommendations. So, do you… 249 00:55:38.290 --> 00:56:00.690 Conf. Room A: do those kind of re-evaluation in the middle of the implementation? That's a great question. So, obviously, processes, things change, right, from a recommendation from fiscal year 22. So, absolutely, we're going to take that into consideration. And I do believe, Colleen, please feel free to jump in here, but I do believe that, you know, sometimes a recommendation 250 00:56:00.690 --> 00:56:06.820 Conf. Room A: Might no longer be valid, and in that case, that is something that we would just remove from the listing at that time. 251 00:56:06.820 --> 00:56:25.689 Colleen Rozillis: Yeah, correct. A great example is, if the city reorganizes, a recommendation related to a process or a responsibility might not be relevant, so then we would close that, and we would call it administrative closure, but it would… it would come off of the list for you all, and it would be closed. We wouldn't just close things, kind of. 252 00:56:25.690 --> 00:56:41.159 Colleen Rozillis: hey, it's been too long, let's close it, we want to work with the city on the appropriate answer, but we definitely do take those things into consideration. Ideally, everything is implementable and practical, because we work with staff on the front end, but things do come up over time. 253 00:56:42.010 --> 00:56:52.969 Conf. Room A: Yeah, so if there could be a list of validated recommendations, what do we have done for each of them, that would be nice. 254 00:56:53.140 --> 00:57:05.749 Conf. Room A: You're talking about column C? Column C, yeah. Could you expand a bit on what your suggestion is? Sorry. Like, the recommendation of… 255 00:57:05.910 --> 00:57:13.219 Conf. Room A: Doing something, and then maybe a comment on what you have verified on the city have implemented. 256 00:57:13.350 --> 00:57:31.490 Conf. Room A: Yes, so when… when we do… Obviously, you'll have those. We do, and so, you know, this quarter, there wasn't any recommendations that had been validated. When this report is presented, when there are recommendations validated, they talk about what had happened. So what… 257 00:57:31.490 --> 00:57:34.480 Conf. Room A: What was validated? What were we able to validate? 258 00:57:35.740 --> 00:57:40.870 Conf. Room A: At that time. So, you mean if I look into a previous audit. 259 00:57:41.020 --> 00:57:58.049 Conf. Room A: Meeting. Right. That will be there. Correct. It'll talk about what… what… what the actual recommendation was that we were able to validate. It might be… okay, it might be nice if there is a cross- reference, like, the last time 260 00:57:58.050 --> 00:58:01.169 Conf. Room A: The, the, the valid recommendation was at… 261 00:58:01.390 --> 00:58:09.769 Conf. Room A: reported in the Audit Committee on what date. That way, people can look for it if they want to. Okay. 262 00:58:10.250 --> 00:58:17.729 Conf. Room A: And then it would be nice, for the… to have a list of the open recommendations, yeah. 263 00:58:25.020 --> 00:58:26.150 Conf. Room A: Good. 264 00:58:26.560 --> 00:58:50.940 Conf. Room A: May we have the, that report that, the PowerPoint that you just shared? I don't see it online. Also, is there a landing page, would I find it under budgets to… I remember that there used to be the collection of all the, Moss Adams Baker Tilly reports. They were all together on some webpage, but I know that we've reworked the website, so… 265 00:58:52.390 --> 00:58:57.459 Conf. Room A: I don't know how to pull that up, and perhaps… I did see some of them before we had our… 266 00:58:57.460 --> 00:59:19.999 Conf. Room A: Commissioner-Mayor Meeting a couple weeks ago, so there is an internal audit section. I'm not sure it's been completely updated, so it's a great comment, Mayor, that maybe not all internal audit reports are posted there, because there have been a number in 2026, and maybe there have been some reorganization. Yeah, if you go down below, the audit plans are there. 267 00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:22.490 Conf. Room A: And then the final reports, I think we might… 268 00:59:22.530 --> 00:59:24.039 Conf. Room A: How do I get to that? 269 00:59:24.140 --> 00:59:28.040 Conf. Room A: Cupertino… Yeah, usually the oil just… 270 00:59:28.390 --> 00:59:36.250 Conf. Room A: Mine didn't, it didn't… Take you to it. Go ahead and click on Finance. Go to Financial Reports, and then there's an Internal Audit subsection. 271 00:59:36.600 --> 00:59:38.300 Conf. Room A: Okay… 272 00:59:38.890 --> 00:59:46.829 Conf. Room A: So if I landed on the main page… I'm starting on the main page of the website. Our city? 273 00:59:47.680 --> 00:59:49.740 Conf. Room A: Okay. 274 00:59:50.550 --> 00:59:52.079 Conf. Room A: And then under finance… 275 00:59:53.740 --> 01:00:10.259 Conf. Room A: So, if I just do a search on the CT homepage for internal audit, I don't get that. I get a bunch of… Yeah, sometimes the search isn't the greatest, so if you go to your… Yeah, so if you go to your city. 276 01:00:10.900 --> 01:00:14.339 Conf. Room A: Yes, and then under Departments, if you scroll down, you go to finance. 277 01:00:14.940 --> 01:00:16.400 Conf. Room A: Couple more down, there we go. 278 01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:20.060 Conf. Room A: And then if you click a couple more over… 279 01:00:20.270 --> 01:00:22.089 Conf. Room A: Oh, no, there, there we are. 280 01:00:22.830 --> 01:00:37.020 Conf. Room A: Okay, so I was wanting to see the Baker-Tilley report with all of these recommendations. There was one that you had, it was several, maybe 30, 30 pages long, and it was a, it was a, 281 01:00:37.090 --> 01:00:48.770 Conf. Room A: All in a table. Really small thought. Lots of recommendations. I think it's the one that would have all of these recommendations on it. 282 01:00:49.020 --> 01:00:57.679 Conf. Room A: This one had a vast majority of them. Yeah, this is a monster… This is the E… this is the ERA. So, I'm thinking that you're… you're wanting… 283 01:00:57.960 --> 01:01:03.460 Conf. Room A: all the recommendations. I… Colleen, do you know if we have… I don't know if we've… 284 01:01:03.540 --> 01:01:14.900 Conf. Room A: provided a report with all the recommendations. We keep track of them, you know, in our own database, but we don't have a report that we've provided the city with all those recommendations. 285 01:01:14.920 --> 01:01:22.670 Conf. Room A: altogether. Okay, so for instance, is I was looking… wanting to know what the four old 286 01:01:22.670 --> 01:01:28.029 Conf. Room A: Civil Grand Jury 2022 recommendations are. 287 01:01:28.030 --> 01:01:43.579 Conf. Room A: Because I'm curious if some of them have been… just already fixed. And it's been, like, 4 years since that report came out, and the people have all changed. So I don't know where, like, where can I find it? 288 01:01:44.900 --> 01:01:50.000 Conf. Room A: what the recommendations were. That may not have been part of the internal audit. 289 01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:52.950 Conf. Room A: Reports. Is there a separate… 290 01:01:53.280 --> 01:02:00.470 Conf. Room A: We saw you… so, at that time, if so, for instance, if there were 6 findings, and 2 had been… 291 01:02:00.790 --> 01:02:08.899 Conf. Room A: resolved. At that time, we would tell you that there was 2 resolved, but we wouldn't tell you the 4 that would be open still, right, Colleen? 292 01:02:09.460 --> 01:02:22.800 Colleen Rozillis: Right, this… honestly, this is a… it's a staff function to close the findings, and we track whether the recommendations have been implemented, so I think it will be up to staff how much detail they would want 293 01:02:23.070 --> 01:02:35.820 Colleen Rozillis: to provide to you. For example, the budget process review that we did, once those findings… once we have said they're validated, you could look at that entire report and say, this is closed. 294 01:02:35.820 --> 01:02:58.949 Colleen Rozillis: But we can work with staff to provide a little bit more detail in our presentation about what's remaining. And it would be up to staff whether they might want to keep a master log available to the public of the audit findings. We show you in the report kind of a high level, because it would be a very, very long report with a lot of detail to have the language of each recommendation 295 01:02:58.990 --> 01:03:02.269 Colleen Rozillis: Provided, and to keep that log over time. 296 01:03:03.080 --> 01:03:05.639 Colleen Rozillis: So we're trying to make it higher level for the committee. 297 01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:21.960 Conf. Room A: Well, as a council member, and we have members of the public who are not always supportive of the council, that having that four items back from 2022 on this report could be used by 298 01:03:21.960 --> 01:03:41.520 Conf. Room A: someone to come up to a council meeting and say, look, there's four things that still haven't been taken care of from 2022, and we'll… we will know nothing about what these 4 items are, which make us look really bad. So I would like to be able to, 299 01:03:41.550 --> 01:03:56.019 Conf. Room A: kind of risk management, that… that, potential, situation. You can… we've seen it before, where these reports have been misused, to abuse people, 300 01:03:56.980 --> 01:04:11.519 Colleen Rozillis: Yeah, that's completely understandable. So we'll work with staff on the format and content so that you have some more detail without it being an overwhelming amount of paperwork that then the city's gotta print out and publish every quarter. 301 01:04:11.770 --> 01:04:35.520 Conf. Room A: Yeah, yeah, and it's been… it was… so I'm really glad to see the language talking about the process improvement here, and I think that's really important, and we've turned around a good number of the residents to view this as a positive, and… but it has been used to both insult the council and insult staff at times, and so we want to get everybody on the same page. 302 01:04:35.520 --> 01:04:46.259 Conf. Room A: For the positive results that this is having on the city, and try to limit those opportunities for it to be, 303 01:04:46.430 --> 01:04:48.180 Conf. Room A: mischaracterized. 304 01:04:49.450 --> 01:05:05.569 Conf. Room A: Okay, so, so originally there were 79 recommendations, right? Correct. So is there a document that… I'm assuming that's a document the Council has approved, with the 79 recommendations? 305 01:05:05.570 --> 01:05:20.129 Colleen Rozillis: That would be, every report that we issue adds to the denominator of the recommendation, so it's not a static number. 79, we probably started with fewer than 79 when we began the validation process. 306 01:05:20.220 --> 01:05:21.360 Conf. Room A: And every… 307 01:05:21.660 --> 01:05:30.240 Colleen Rozillis: Every report that is completed then adds additional recommendations, so we validate, and the percentage, the number will change over time. 308 01:05:30.240 --> 01:05:46.719 Conf. Room A: You keep updating the… Right. Oh, that's why it's hard to find one document that has all… So, for example, after the grant or grant management is presented to you all, then we would add those to the list. Does that make sense? 309 01:05:46.720 --> 01:05:56.260 Conf. Room A: Oh, I see. So you'll probably see it at the very bottom, under Special Revenue Fund Progress, Process Review, you'll see another line, 2026. 310 01:05:56.630 --> 01:05:58.340 Conf. Room A: Grant management. 311 01:05:58.510 --> 01:06:03.250 Conf. Room A: So, it's not there yet, but maybe next quarter you'll see that with the… 312 01:06:03.380 --> 01:06:18.780 Conf. Room A: X number of recommendations. Oh, I see, okay. This is a very helpful report, let me re-emphasize, because it includes not only internal audit, it includes other recommendations, for example, from the external auditor. 313 01:06:19.030 --> 01:06:20.630 Conf. Room A: As I understand it. 314 01:06:22.310 --> 01:06:28.770 Conf. Room A: So, the special revenue fund process, or a single audit? Maybe the single audit is an example. 315 01:06:28.900 --> 01:06:45.760 Conf. Room A: So this one, I believe it's still a function of the internal audit. All these reports were provided by… Okay, so I misunderstood then. I thought this was… there was a comprehensive report I get from you guys, I thought, that's got all the recommendations that you're tracking. 316 01:06:46.310 --> 01:06:48.620 Conf. Room A: So, it's only internal audit. 317 01:06:48.620 --> 01:06:51.259 Colleen Rozillis: That's not correct. This includes, two grade. 318 01:06:51.260 --> 01:06:51.780 Conf. Room A: Enjoyable. 319 01:06:51.780 --> 01:06:56.590 Colleen Rozillis: reports, as well as a single audit finding that the city received in 2022. 320 01:06:56.590 --> 01:07:15.779 Conf. Room A: So the single audit would be the external… Correct. …previous auditors, and then the grand jury, of course, is the grand jury. So that's what I thought this was a more comprehensive document, not that, you know, internal audit's going to come up with most of the recommendations we would expect, but so what's the basis of capturing a recommendation, then? 321 01:07:16.030 --> 01:07:35.150 Conf. Room A: since we've got 3 different sources right now, it makes sense to me to have external audit, internal audit. I guess I wouldn't have expected a grand jury anyways, but… so that's fine, I get it. Is there… are there any other sources that you guys typically look at when you go into a municipal situation, or… 322 01:07:36.120 --> 01:07:56.009 Conf. Room A: Sure. Which is great for us as a committee, this is great for us to see what's out there, what's being looked at. I think it's a… it's… maybe we're not giving it as much credit as it deserves. It's quite… quite a nice thing to close the loop, so to speak, which I really like this report. But any others, Colleen, that come to mind? Are we… is that the typical 323 01:07:56.010 --> 01:07:57.470 Conf. Room A: Source of everything. 324 01:07:57.670 --> 01:08:14.169 Colleen Rozillis: This is pretty typical. This was a management decision at the time we established this program, to go back and include the grand jury reports. We would typically include internal and external audit, and if the city were to receive findings from 325 01:08:14.170 --> 01:08:37.030 Colleen Rozillis: another auditor, for example, HUD, or, or another federal agency that came in, you could include those two, just for transparency's sake, there was a decision made to include the grand jury. I would say our clients are kind of 50-50 on whether they include grand jury findings or not in this, but it does daylight whether the city is making movement on 326 01:08:37.060 --> 01:08:42.949 Colleen Rozillis: Recommendations from external bodies, and that's what the committee chose at the time. 327 01:08:43.500 --> 01:08:55.690 Conf. Room A: And there was… that reminds me then, wasn't there a finding in one of the grants during the COVID era that, so that was a special report from the external auditors, probably. 328 01:08:55.689 --> 01:09:09.009 Conf. Room A: I think… I do believe it's that 2022 single out, so it's second to the bottom. Okay, okay, yeah, great. Okay. Yeah, but I still… it's… yeah, I think it's nice to include a grand jury. 329 01:09:09.010 --> 01:09:12.910 Conf. Room A: But we had another civical injury report this year. 330 01:09:13.120 --> 01:09:19.890 Conf. Room A: So, would that be added? I'm curious, but then I do think that we… 331 01:09:20.029 --> 01:09:29.340 Conf. Room A: We should have a document with all the 79 recommendations, even if they are… being adjusted, but… 332 01:09:29.430 --> 01:09:47.249 Conf. Room A: I assume you do have at least some point. Right. Yeah, we can work with management, like, we'll have… we'll have an update for the next quarter. I wonder if maybe you could… the internal auditors could work with city staff and come back with maybe a suggestion on how to handle it, because there seems like there's a… 333 01:09:47.420 --> 01:10:06.240 Conf. Room A: potential for a lot of material, and we want to make sure we're getting maybe a summary report, and then we can go into detail when we see something. And you've also raised the issue of maybe the public has a different interest than this committee, so possibly one solution to address what you're talking about is you guys could come up with a 334 01:10:06.440 --> 01:10:14.490 Conf. Room A: A proposal for us next… next quarter in conjunction with this report to say how you would handle, or… 335 01:10:14.960 --> 01:10:26.380 Conf. Room A: I'm just throwing it out, because as a committee, we… Mayor, maybe… Yeah, it doesn't have to be one… just to clarify, it doesn't… you don't have to create a whole new document 336 01:10:26.380 --> 01:10:38.880 Conf. Room A: for this. Just, that would be nice to have a list of 79, and then maybe it's 5 different documents, and then just say, okay, if each one is from which document, then at least… 337 01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:39.720 Conf. Room A: there is… 338 01:10:39.790 --> 01:10:52.170 Conf. Room A: a place people can look for information. That's good enough. Mayor, you have… Thank you for mentioning the Silver Grand Jury. So, this year, we've had 3. 339 01:10:52.170 --> 01:11:06.050 Conf. Room A: Cupertino is named in three, so the first was, with regards to remote teleconferencing, convenience versus compliance. We had a VTA one, and then Popples. 340 01:11:06.540 --> 01:11:18.420 Conf. Room A: So, unfortunately, we've got 3 more to add, and we've been working on the first one. We're working on all 3. The first one is really in process, and it will, 341 01:11:18.420 --> 01:11:29.610 Conf. Room A: ultimately get into our, Council Procedures Manual. We'll have to have a discussion about that probably in November to make some adjustments there. 342 01:11:30.190 --> 01:11:33.919 Conf. Room A: But I… I guess it would get added onto your… 343 01:11:34.300 --> 01:11:51.270 Conf. Room A: the reports list, perhaps? Maybe it comes back to my question of clarification, which was, can we maybe have a little text on the bottom that says, reports… what is the universe of total recommendations? And it comes from, I guess we're saying. 344 01:11:51.290 --> 01:11:54.879 Conf. Room A: The past, the decision was civil juries 345 01:11:54.950 --> 01:11:58.959 Conf. Room A: Internal audit recommendations, external audit recommendations. 346 01:11:59.190 --> 01:12:10.309 Conf. Room A: And that way, everybody knows those are city staff, then, when internal audit may not be aware of everything. City staff would have a triggering process to identify these. 347 01:12:12.370 --> 01:12:27.600 Conf. Room A: I'm not thinking of a very extensive, but some kind of note on here that I never thought of would be helpful. I didn't realize there was a decision made in prior years, for example, so that's helpful to know that we're continuing the work of prior committees that we can build on. 348 01:12:27.940 --> 01:12:35.739 Conf. Room A: Okay, I think we should move on from this item, probably, if we can. Any other burning questions, or we got our stuff addressed? 349 01:12:36.050 --> 01:12:55.229 Conf. Room A: So we could vote to, or choose to recommend that we no longer include the civil grand juries here, because that's being handled at a council level. And then it's kind of duplicative if we're analyzing and having our consultant analyze the same civil grand jury. 350 01:12:55.390 --> 01:12:58.729 Conf. Room A: Let's see if there's any comments from the public. 351 01:12:58.960 --> 01:13:03.499 Conf. Room A: And then we can maybe go to a motion, even though this is an informational item. 352 01:13:04.830 --> 01:13:10.899 Conf. Room A: Chair, I see no request to speak. Fantastic. I'm thinking, you know, maybe we could… 353 01:13:11.060 --> 01:13:15.429 Conf. Room A: Talk some more and have a motion, or we can… whatever you… 354 01:13:15.790 --> 01:13:27.909 Conf. Room A: I take direction from… it sounds like a great idea to, you know, address what we're going to include on this, reaffirm what's been in here in the past, or remove some. It could be a nice time to do that. 355 01:13:28.510 --> 01:13:31.929 Conf. Room A: City staff have any comments on your opinion? 356 01:13:32.410 --> 01:13:51.310 Conf. Room A: Ultimately, this is a report that goes to the audit committee, so if you all want to remove or include additional, by including, maybe it's the external audit findings, if there are any, so… which I think would be more relevant for this body. Right. We can certainly do that. 357 01:13:51.890 --> 01:14:08.999 Conf. Room A: Yeah, I can see lots of other committees or institutions that maybe make complaints, so I don't know that this is appropriate for us, necessarily. Colleen, do you have some experience? You said some cities do add civil jury comments, so is that widespread, do you think, anecdotally, or… 358 01:14:10.720 --> 01:14:26.629 Colleen Rozillis: It really depends on how, how grand jury complaints are handled. I would agree with the mayor's comment that because these are handled at the council level, it is a little bit redundant. It just depends on how you all want to handle it, but, 359 01:14:26.630 --> 01:14:36.929 Colleen Rozillis: Typically, the Council says, here's how we plan to respond, management implements, comes back to Council and says, we responded this way, and then we would validate at the same time. 360 01:14:38.950 --> 01:14:48.499 Conf. Room A: Right, so I… getting rid of redundancy, I'm all in favor of. I mean, we… I don't… Vice Mayor, I don't think we, 361 01:14:48.550 --> 01:14:56.830 Conf. Room A: had control over what was being done at that time. At what time? Oh, adding… Oh yeah, and it was used as a tool. 362 01:14:56.830 --> 01:15:12.549 Conf. Room A: I really… I didn't add… I really didn't think it's bad to include a civil grand jury, because it's nice to see, oh, 4 was implemented, and 4's still open. I'm curious what's still open. 363 01:15:12.610 --> 01:15:27.470 Conf. Room A: But on the other hand, not all the recommendation from grand jury has to do with, audit, or finance, right? For… so does it make sense to include recommendations that 364 01:15:27.780 --> 01:15:35.280 Conf. Room A: may not have to do with finance, and also, a lot of times, not a lot, there may be some. 365 01:15:35.300 --> 01:15:52.859 Conf. Room A: 50%, I think, of the recommendations we disagree with, so it doesn't mean they… because the grand jury… civil grand jury consists of people who have never been elected official. They make recommendations, but then they don't even know how city works. 366 01:15:52.920 --> 01:15:58.640 Conf. Room A: And so I don't think their recommendation, is always. 367 01:15:59.020 --> 01:16:07.979 Conf. Room A: a good recommendation. So, I… I don't know if these 8 are those 8 that's reasonable. 368 01:16:08.130 --> 01:16:12.450 Conf. Room A: That we have accepted, or the regulation that's… 369 01:16:12.980 --> 01:16:15.859 Conf. Room A: directly from the Seagro Grand Jury, so that's… 370 01:16:16.010 --> 01:16:23.159 Conf. Room A: Would be my concern, with taking an external recommendation without 371 01:16:23.590 --> 01:16:28.280 Conf. Room A: Our own validation on whether those recommendations are 372 01:16:28.280 --> 01:16:50.900 Conf. Room A: suitable for Cupertino. Yeah, I think that goes to my observation, is typically these kinds of reports are stuff this committee has input or control over, and so internal audit reports into both the City Council and the Audit Committee, is the way that's structured. Same way, basically, for the external auditor, so it makes perfect sense to me that 373 01:16:50.900 --> 01:16:53.500 Conf. Room A: This committee would have input on 374 01:16:53.670 --> 01:16:58.450 Conf. Room A: The reports coming back to the committee, whereas we have no 375 01:16:58.580 --> 01:17:18.439 Conf. Room A: real direction with the… I could see where the city attorney has input, I would hope or expect, on these kinds of things, but that… we would… we would get input from either the external auditors saying this is a significant enough issue, it shows up in the ACR, and you guys could be aware of it, or we see it in the footnote, or… 376 01:17:18.490 --> 01:17:41.869 Conf. Room A: internal auditor does a project and then brings it up for us, but separately, I mean, there's… we could probably imagine other organizations that have comments for approval that may be coming to the city that we have no real… it doesn't seem to fit within our purview, but I can see where it could, if we extend it and City Council says, why don't you watch over it, so… 377 01:17:41.870 --> 01:18:02.689 Conf. Room A: I'm happy to have a motion that clarifies what we think this is. We can either do it through city staff consulting with maybe the city attorney can get involved, or whatever you think, or we can… we can take a vote here and just say, let's… let's stick it with internal audit and external auditors, which report indirectly to this committee and other groups that don't. 378 01:18:02.830 --> 01:18:15.159 Conf. Room A: Okay, so I'll make a motion that we remove civil grand jury recommendations from this report, and then if there is any 379 01:18:15.160 --> 01:18:26.930 Conf. Room A: financial relate to the issue that's recommended from the ZRA grand jury, we will rely on… I think this council… the city manager or city attorney will 380 01:18:27.090 --> 01:18:38.100 Conf. Room A: can refer them to the internal auditor, who can then recommend an appropriate way to integrate those into the cities. 381 01:18:38.250 --> 01:18:40.750 Conf. Room A: Process. 382 01:18:40.780 --> 01:18:49.179 Conf. Room A: Bye. More seconds, yeah, and I, like, here, I don't want to talk about the pothole issue here and at Council. 383 01:18:49.180 --> 01:19:02.519 Conf. Room A: I don't want to talk about ETA here and at Council, or even the Council Procedures Manual that we're going to have to go through, that it's very redundant. People can come to the Council meeting and make their input there, rather than 384 01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:18.570 Conf. Room A: taking up our precious time of it, so I agree. Yeah, so maybe, like, show me the money, maybe that item is relevant to this committee, and then I'm sure that the staff will bring that to the committee, together with Baker City. 385 01:19:18.570 --> 01:19:34.560 Conf. Room A: Yeah. My input on this might be, first, I can ask, again, city staff, or I think the city manager's office is represented in our committee here as well, but again, to me, it's what does this committee have authority over? 386 01:19:34.560 --> 01:19:44.479 Conf. Room A: And I'm happy to take responsibility for things, but I didn't realize this was a decision, maybe, that had been in scope a number of years ago. 387 01:19:45.600 --> 01:19:53.229 Conf. Room A: I… personally, all the things you said, I'm not sure we can rely on the city staff bringing us issues. I think that's part of the… 388 01:19:53.550 --> 01:20:14.239 Conf. Room A: nice loop being closed here. There's a formal report given by the external auditors or internal auditors, and they have recommendations, and we're going to go soon to a new item that's got a series of them, and then they get on this report, and then they're either addressed, city staff either agrees with them, or they don't, and then at some point, there's a resolution. Whereas things we don't have control over, it… 389 01:20:14.240 --> 01:20:20.279 Conf. Room A: I don't see how this loop gets closed easily. So maybe we simplify the motion to just say. 390 01:20:20.280 --> 01:20:27.309 Conf. Room A: We removed the Civocal injury report. Unless City Council wants to put it back in our purview or something. 391 01:20:27.310 --> 01:20:38.280 Conf. Room A: They can pick and choose and direct items. So you're withdrawing your first, your main motion. This is, the new main motion. The new motion that we removed. 392 01:20:38.280 --> 01:20:52.029 Conf. Room A: civil grand jury recommendations from the Audit Recommendation Report. More tracking report, yeah. Okay, and then, we've got a motion, and we can discuss it. 393 01:20:52.030 --> 01:21:13.679 Conf. Room A: Now, again, I'd like to clarify that that motion is because we're clarifying what this audit committee has purview over as we understand it. Okay, so can I, amend the motion to say that we are removing civil grand jury recommendations from the Audit Recommendation Tracking Report 394 01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:17.320 Conf. Room A: Because it's not in the purview of this committee. 395 01:21:17.820 --> 01:21:18.590 Conf. Room A: Yeah. 396 01:21:19.190 --> 01:21:43.389 Conf. Room A: That's closer to what I want. I always have to… Would you like to reprace the motion? I'm just looking at it. Maybe you can rephrase the motion. Well, maybe… I always draw my motion, you can… No, no, no, no, no, that's not what I mean. I think just simply relying on the fact that, like, if there was a report like Show Me the Money, that the Council, if… while we're talking about it, we could direct staff 397 01:21:43.390 --> 01:21:49.019 Conf. Room A: to… bring this to the Audit Committee if we felt that the Audit Committee had, some… 398 01:21:49.020 --> 01:22:00.620 Conf. Room A: inputs that would be helpful. Yeah. But that does not need to be part of the solution, it's just what the Council is willing to do. Yeah. 399 01:22:00.960 --> 01:22:20.140 Conf. Room A: So is the motion clear? I do believe it's clear. Just to add a bit to it, the… and it's later on our agenda, is the Internal Audit Work Program. Seeing that that is going to Council in September, maybe that's the opportunity Council can take to add 400 01:22:20.330 --> 01:22:40.299 Conf. Room A: a civil grand jury report to the validation, as a follow- up, or as a work program item to ensure that, one, that it's been seen through. So if there is a civil grand jury report, like, show me the money, right? It's… maybe it's within the purview of this body to review and make sure that 401 01:22:40.450 --> 01:22:44.060 Conf. Room A: It's been addressed, and maybe the council can make that decision. 402 01:22:44.370 --> 01:22:49.230 Conf. Room A: At the time when we take the work program for consideration. 403 01:22:50.850 --> 01:23:05.959 Conf. Room A: Okay, but we can still be making that recommendation to the Council about this, at this time. Okay. Well, I think we can remove it if we choose from this report, but that's fine, too, if we can. No, I'm just saying for future, right? If you, let's say we remove them now. 404 01:23:06.010 --> 01:23:21.879 Conf. Room A: from all future reports. If there is a future civil grandeur report that you want Baker Tilly or internal auditors to review to ensure that it's been validated, we can include it as part of that validation process, or during that… the annual review of our work plan. 405 01:23:21.970 --> 01:23:26.469 Conf. Room A: You mean have that emerge at this level, you're saying? 406 01:23:27.220 --> 01:23:36.490 Conf. Room A: Yeah, I would say probably from the direction from Council down. Okay, so that is, oh, the same as what I was anticipating, yeah. Okay. Okay. 407 01:23:36.620 --> 01:23:56.340 Conf. Room A: Where am I at? I guess we've got a motion. May I clarify that Mullins accepted the child's amended motion? Can you read it back? The amendment is purview of the… because it is not within the purview of the Audit Committee. I wasn't sure… Audit Committee… 408 01:23:56.930 --> 01:24:01.319 Conf. Room A: Recommendation tracking report, because it's not in the purview of the committee. 409 01:24:01.740 --> 01:24:11.170 Conf. Room A: It may not be. If it wasn't, then why have we been doing it? If it wasn't in our purview, why have we been doing it? So… 410 01:24:11.770 --> 01:24:13.420 Conf. Room A: I would… I would… 411 01:24:13.610 --> 01:24:21.020 Conf. Room A: Question, if that was… and it seems to be more of an observational statement rather than the motion. 412 01:24:21.020 --> 01:24:37.720 Conf. Room A: You mean the reason for the motion? Yeah, yeah, and I'm not entirely sure, because it's been our practice that we've been doing this. Why are we now saying that it's not working? I think it's important to include that in the motion per chair's recommendation. 413 01:24:37.770 --> 01:24:40.560 Conf. Room A: To clarify, it's not… 414 01:24:40.590 --> 01:25:05.059 Conf. Room A: within the purview of the committee. That was before I heard the mayor's comment, which makes perfect sense as well. I honestly think maybe we could handle this in another way, which is, again, I'm not trying to push it off into a committee, but possibly internal auditors and staff can go back in consultation with all the various parties that 415 01:25:05.280 --> 01:25:11.529 Conf. Room A: And ask, what should be the scope of the total recommendation column? 416 01:25:11.850 --> 01:25:17.649 Conf. Room A: And we can take that choice with emotion here, or we can ask further input. 417 01:25:17.780 --> 01:25:18.870 Conf. Room A: I guess. 418 01:25:19.540 --> 01:25:26.529 Conf. Room A: Well, I can accept… Is there an appetite? I can accept the friendly amendment, even though I question it. 419 01:25:26.700 --> 01:25:43.799 Conf. Room A: Okay, so you accept the friendly amendment to add this, because this is not in purview of the Audit Committee, right? So do we want to amend that to also include the chair's comment about 420 01:25:44.190 --> 01:25:52.310 Conf. Room A: Direct staff to bring back universe of… 421 01:25:53.030 --> 01:25:58.440 Conf. Room A: Reports that we are taking to… for the total recommendations. 422 01:25:58.600 --> 01:26:01.630 Conf. Room A: I'm happy with that. Yeah, I think so? Okay. 423 01:26:02.070 --> 01:26:03.090 Conf. Room A: Accept. 424 01:26:03.680 --> 01:26:06.580 Conf. Room A: top staff may not want to. 425 01:26:06.860 --> 01:26:07.220 Colleen Rozillis: But I… 426 01:26:07.220 --> 01:26:08.080 Conf. Room A: It's like that project. 427 01:26:08.080 --> 01:26:10.079 Colleen Rozillis: Could I make a quick suggestion? 428 01:26:10.080 --> 01:26:12.880 Conf. Room A: Yeah, please, we're working as a team here. 429 01:26:12.880 --> 01:26:25.380 Colleen Rozillis: I know that… I know that the committee, charter is not maybe set in stone at the moment, but it would probably be easily covered if the motion just referenced 430 01:26:25.380 --> 01:26:43.560 Colleen Rozillis: reports that are under the purview of the committee is outlined in its charter or directed by Council. So that would cover, for example, if a grand jury report came to Council, there were items that you wanted to refer to the audit committee, you could do that in the, the required responses. 431 01:26:43.560 --> 01:26:50.209 Colleen Rozillis: To the grand jury, and that would cover the universe without us then being able to, 432 01:26:50.340 --> 01:26:55.299 Colleen Rozillis: Put everything into the tracking report that could possibly be relevant. 433 01:26:55.300 --> 01:26:58.730 Conf. Room A: Yeah, I like that wording, actually. I think… 434 01:26:58.790 --> 01:27:05.919 Conf. Room A: For the motion, it's not defining what's the universe, it's asking, directing the staff. 435 01:27:05.960 --> 01:27:20.740 Conf. Room A: to make a recommendation to the committee, here is what we should consider. And the staff can then say, okay, the universe is, per the charge of the committee, right? So that's okay. 436 01:27:21.880 --> 01:27:25.130 Conf. Room A: Right, which I don't think we need to modify the motion. 437 01:27:27.220 --> 01:27:28.610 Conf. Room A: Do you think? 438 01:27:29.320 --> 01:27:40.499 Conf. Room A: what Colleen said sounded very succinct and to what I was driving at, so I'm… I don't mean to be annoying here. 439 01:27:40.690 --> 01:27:45.029 Conf. Room A: Could you repeat that? Yeah. Possibly? Colleen? 440 01:27:45.190 --> 01:27:47.270 Colleen Rozillis: Sure, it would be, 441 01:27:47.890 --> 01:27:57.330 Colleen Rozillis: limited to tracking recommendations that are within the… under the purview of the Audit Committee per its charter, or as directed by Council. 442 01:27:57.670 --> 01:28:12.239 Conf. Room A: Yeah, I… Okay, accept that. Yes. Good. So we've got substitute motion, more second. Excellent. Yeah. We've had a nice discussion. I like this motion a lot. Any other final comments? Let's take a vote. 443 01:28:12.530 --> 01:28:17.580 Conf. Room A: Sorry, did I write Chao move, the substitute motion? 444 01:28:17.580 --> 01:28:40.649 Conf. Room A: Good question. Yeah, the substitute motion, there were two amendments, right? No, three amendments. First is the purview, second is add direction to staff, and that direction was amended. So there were three amendments. On the name. On the… the second motion. 445 01:28:40.650 --> 01:28:42.670 Conf. Room A: Well, you could also… 446 01:28:43.450 --> 01:28:57.989 Conf. Room A: You could also just with… so she doesn't have to type all that out. Yeah, or I can just make a new motion that includes all that. So remove… Whichever you prefer. Remove the main motion again, and then just have this, so… 447 01:28:58.200 --> 01:29:03.580 Conf. Room A: this will be the main motion. So, and it'll probably read better in the minutes that we don't have this. 448 01:29:03.680 --> 01:29:13.030 Conf. Room A: Wow. So, we'll just do a substitute motion, which include the second motion with the three amendments. 449 01:29:13.560 --> 01:29:34.070 Conf. Room A: No, no, no, no, you want to, you want to withdraw your main motion, which had all those amendments. Okay, oh. You're going to create a new main motion with Colleen's simplified, limited to tracking the recommendations of the Audit Committee per the Charter or Bidirectional council, the simplified one, and just… 450 01:29:34.200 --> 01:29:42.689 Conf. Room A: put that in, and then in the meeting minutes, because you don't have to put the original main motion in the minutes, you just have this one. 451 01:29:42.840 --> 01:29:57.429 Conf. Room A: But, so, okay, so child's moving and more… Second. Remove the civil grand jury recommendations from the Audit Committee recommendation tracking report, limited to tracking recommendations that are within the 452 01:29:58.050 --> 01:30:03.630 Conf. Room A: Under the purview of the Audit Committee, per its charter, or as directed by Council. 453 01:30:05.110 --> 01:30:22.810 Conf. Room A: Is that… Oh, should that include direct staff to bring back the… no? Okay, that's okay. No, we've gone beyond that now. Okay. So the previous motion was withdrawn, so you don't need to put that. Okay, thank you. Save all the time for the minutes. Super. 454 01:30:23.340 --> 01:30:26.269 Conf. Room A: All right, let's take a vote on that as, 455 01:30:26.390 --> 01:30:30.129 Conf. Room A: Just stated. All in favor? Aye. 456 01:30:30.390 --> 01:30:47.870 Conf. Room A: Aye. Any opposed? No, it's unanimous of us here. Thanks, everyone. I think we came to a nice resolution, and you can put that as a footnote down here on our report, whatever our motion was that we so, succinctly have in the minutes now. Great. I think we're still at the point where 457 01:30:48.020 --> 01:31:06.200 Conf. Room A: Well, I guess we're finished with this item. This was an informational item on which we corrected, or we made a motion. So, thank you for the presentation. It went a little longer than I anticipated, but now I think we're into the next part of your presentation, which is item 6. 458 01:31:06.430 --> 01:31:12.229 Conf. Room A: Yes. Which has received the Grants Management Internal Control Review final report. Yes. 459 01:31:12.660 --> 01:31:23.329 Conf. Room A: Yeah, so this is really exciting. I'm going to go to the executive summary just to kind of point out some of the highlights of the report, and then I'll open the floor for questions. So, you know. 460 01:31:23.330 --> 01:31:34.999 Conf. Room A: This was really to assess the internal controls over grant management activities for the city, really looking specifically for compliance with policies and procedures. 461 01:31:35.000 --> 01:31:54.359 Conf. Room A: as well as best practices. So we really looked at the application, the review, the administrative and reporting processes related to grant management processes. This actually took place in June through October of 2025. 462 01:31:54.360 --> 01:32:04.550 Conf. Room A: So, that's important just to remember that, you know, some of these recommendations might have already been mitigated by the city. You know, thinking about 463 01:32:04.550 --> 01:32:23.519 Conf. Room A: how much total grants the city has, it's pretty substantial, so looking at, you know, fiscal year 24, for example, 25% of the program revenue is related to grants. So this is a very material balance for the city, and something that's really important. 464 01:32:24.230 --> 01:32:29.380 Conf. Room A: So, going down to the second page, you will see that 465 01:32:29.400 --> 01:32:46.449 Conf. Room A: we do like to highlight things that are going really well, and the city is doing really well. I'll call out a couple of these. So one, you know, looking at departments, it looks like they have really organized folders for all this information. 466 01:32:46.450 --> 01:33:11.400 Conf. Room A: grant documentation, making sure that it's record… that they have record retention rights on it, as well as audit readiness, which is so important, as you know, for your, you know, external auditors, as well as when pesky internal auditors come. So, really nicely done. Also, another one to highlight, segregation of fees really appeared to be in practice in invoice reviews, approvals, reducing that risk 467 01:33:11.400 --> 01:33:35.119 Conf. Room A: of errors or unauthorized transactions, which is something to really highlight for the city. And also, you know, there are… there appears to be really good handoff lists to help mitigate controls. You know, if there was any risks of staff turnover, you know, everyone has an understanding of what needs to be done in this process. So, great job to the city. 468 01:33:35.120 --> 01:34:00.000 Conf. Room A: But like, you know, most cities, there are some opportunities for improvement, and if you go to page number 3, this lists out 9 areas, that I wanted to highlight in the report, but obviously there's details below and there's other recommendations below. So looking at these high-level, you know, really making sure to have standard grant management policies. 469 01:34:00.000 --> 01:34:05.599 Conf. Room A: policies and procedures and continuity plans. So we talk about, you know, really 470 01:34:05.610 --> 01:34:12.759 Conf. Room A: Having that handoff to maintain grant management activities, what if there are staff absences, transitions, that sort of thing. 471 01:34:12.760 --> 01:34:28.140 Conf. Room A: Making sure that there is a centralized grant opportunity identification and monitoring. So, when we were looking at multiple departments within the city, there were sometimes different ways that different departments are 472 01:34:28.140 --> 01:34:34.960 Conf. Room A: Identifying and monitoring these grants, and so really having a holistic approach across the city really helps make sure that 473 01:34:34.960 --> 01:34:41.560 Conf. Room A: everyone is in under agreement, and the process is continuous throughout. A couple other things… 474 01:34:41.820 --> 01:35:00.339 Conf. Room A: Making sure that everyone, you know, that there's segregation of duties across departments, so we did see, you know, some areas that had great segregation of duties, others, you know, that might have staff, staff issues, not have enough staff, that sort of thing that could lead to the potential 475 01:35:00.340 --> 01:35:04.620 Conf. Room A: of, you know, some segregation of duty issues. 476 01:35:05.140 --> 01:35:22.550 Conf. Room A: looking at this again, just making sure that there's consistent internal reviews and approval processes for grant reporting. As you all know, grant reporting can be very cumbersome, and there's a lot of different things, so making sure that, you know, the city really is 477 01:35:22.550 --> 01:35:26.239 Conf. Room A: crossing the T's and dotting the I's, so to speak. 478 01:35:26.240 --> 01:35:30.610 Conf. Room A: In making sure that they are doing the appropriate grant reporting. 479 01:35:30.660 --> 01:35:36.060 Conf. Room A: It's a lot of information, it's, and so I, I think… 480 01:35:36.370 --> 01:35:42.679 Conf. Room A: to really make the best of your time, I'll open up for any questions or comments that you all have. 481 01:35:43.870 --> 01:35:46.079 Conf. Room A: Why don't we do a round table here? 482 01:35:46.580 --> 01:35:50.569 Conf. Room A: Any, clarifying questions from the committee members? 483 01:35:52.600 --> 01:36:09.239 Conf. Room A: I'm kind of wondering how… but one of the… one of the problems that we've seen is that grants are being, like, applied for, and then we kind of find out about that after the fact, and has that been… 484 01:36:09.390 --> 01:36:17.350 Conf. Room A: Improved upon, like… For instance, there was a grant for, 485 01:36:17.500 --> 01:36:29.979 Conf. Room A: it was some art… what was it, artificial inten… a virtual reality, a program. It was about $100,000 that was given to the city to create this VR, 486 01:36:30.170 --> 01:36:40.260 Conf. Room A: you'd have the virtual reality headset. But that didn't… it didn't, like, go through the council, and it… and it got kind of put on… onto, like, a, 487 01:36:40.320 --> 01:36:50.789 Conf. Room A: work program, special project, but all the money came from outside. It did use some staff time, but is there something in the process now that would be 488 01:36:50.830 --> 01:37:02.859 Conf. Room A: different, so that that could rise to the level of getting to the Council, because that's a substantial amount of money, and then the city is supposed to be continuing, like, using this VR, 489 01:37:02.990 --> 01:37:11.789 Conf. Room A: Thing. It was the one with the decarbonization of your house with your… changing out your appliances and stuff, and it had Cooper in it. 490 01:37:11.790 --> 01:37:32.960 Conf. Room A: I don't know if you ever tried it out, so… No. So… There was one for McClellan Ranch. And that's another one. That was much smaller. So there is another one? I didn't know that. Yeah, so they're supposed to have it out, like, at our festivals and whatnot, for people to check out. Last year? It might have been 2 years ago. 491 01:37:33.030 --> 01:37:45.170 Conf. Room A: Oh. Yeah, so you would put on the virtual reality headset outside in the library field for the green… what is our… Oh, you need the headset. It needs the headset to work. Right. 492 01:37:45.170 --> 01:37:56.610 Conf. Room A: Right, and you would see Cooper, and then you would be asked, you know, like, where can you make changes, and you have different questions about… he'd be walking around a house and changing out the appliances for, like, 493 01:37:56.610 --> 01:38:08.409 Conf. Room A: Get rid of the gas stove for something, their induction heating type of thing. That's as an example. So, is there anything in the system that would keep that from happening? 494 01:38:09.180 --> 01:38:13.279 Conf. Room A: And maybe what I add to… so the… 495 01:38:13.590 --> 01:38:27.270 Conf. Room A: there is, and we just took this to Council a month or two ago, is the grant policy, and so it kind of provided some guardrails as to what would be going to Council, and I think, if I remember correctly, one of the, the, 496 01:38:27.270 --> 01:38:42.480 Conf. Room A: emphasis on what would be taken, or the pursuit of grants, is the, amount of staff time required to, essentially, to pursue. And so it's… it's the short of what it… of what… what kind of what it boils down to. So, if it's going to be heavy. 497 01:38:42.480 --> 01:39:02.070 Conf. Room A: staff time to pursue this, the idea is it would go to Council for approval. Now, if it's nominal or it's essentially not much, I think that the pursuit of the grant would not require it to go to Council. However, I think there are some thresholds that would require Council to approve 498 01:39:02.070 --> 01:39:03.170 Conf. Room A: the grant. 499 01:39:03.500 --> 01:39:14.869 Conf. Room A: And one of the other bits, and you will see it as one of the findings, is it ultimately would also require the city manager's approval, or their designee on any grant. 500 01:39:15.130 --> 01:39:35.099 Conf. Room A: So can we maybe use those as case study? And so these are the grants, in the past, and whether the new policy… how the new policy would apply for this? I think that would help us, to understand the 501 01:39:35.220 --> 01:39:42.850 Conf. Room A: How the new policy would work, maybe whether any adjustment is needed. 502 01:39:43.220 --> 01:40:02.249 Conf. Room A: One… one more area, so the SV Hopper, the… and I don't know if this… I don't recall it going to Council, but there has been an application for two different kinds of grants, to extend that, but I don't recall us having a discussion about it on the… on the Council agenda. 503 01:40:02.250 --> 01:40:09.420 Conf. Room A: And those are significant amounts of grants, and, you know, I'm pretty sure it's so… over a million dollars. 504 01:40:09.520 --> 01:40:15.699 Conf. Room A: Maybe we can organize our comments here, and I guess some of them are… 505 01:40:15.720 --> 01:40:35.389 Conf. Room A: process-related, and there's some recent development, I guess, was the policy that what Jonathan's referring to, was that part of your incorporated… did you finish this study before that? Yes, so if you look, our very first finding was around, policies and procedures, and I think that was an administrative policy, Jonathan, that you have been 506 01:40:35.390 --> 01:40:39.900 Conf. Room A: working on, is that correct? No, that one was a council. Oh, council policy. So… 507 01:40:39.930 --> 01:41:03.889 Conf. Room A: We, we have not reviewed this. Like I mentioned, this, this report actually, you know, we finished our testing, and the report was… the draft was initially at October of last year, so it's been a while since we have worked on this area. What I want to say, we do have a follow-up, you know, when we get to the next fiscal year internal audit work plan for this 508 01:41:04.010 --> 01:41:22.910 Conf. Room A: type of thing. Which is kind of what I was reading into, to the extent you've done a certain amount of work, and there's a number of recommendations, and when I look at the city staff response, it's basically, since this report was finished, or the work was done, there's been a grants analyst who've been hired, who presumably is doing all kinds of 509 01:41:23.500 --> 01:41:27.739 Conf. Room A: policy and implementation things, and that leads into this, I guess. 510 01:41:27.880 --> 01:41:31.469 Conf. Room A: Proposal that we have in the next agenda item, so we're sort of… 511 01:41:31.580 --> 01:41:42.559 Conf. Room A: what I'm trying to do is figure out how we can take the benefits of what we see in front of us, but then recognize we've got another item, potentially, where we could address some of the… 512 01:41:42.580 --> 01:41:51.109 Conf. Room A: Almost both of your questions, in some sense, are like follow-ons to the scoping of that follow-on project. 513 01:41:51.110 --> 01:42:08.780 Conf. Room A: So… so how do we… I don't know if you guys see where I'm going here, but we got… we can get rid of this item. I don't want to say get rid of, but how does city… city staff is responding, saying basically there's a new person, and all of these recommendations are being re- evaluated. Is that correct? 514 01:42:08.820 --> 01:42:16.939 Conf. Room A: I feel… Somewhat. I think that's the general, or at least our position, that the, 515 01:42:16.940 --> 01:42:31.470 Conf. Room A: that the new grants analyst has addressed, or that there's a process in place that addresses most of these… I almost think we could accept this item, and then on the next agenda item, drill in more deeply as to what follow-on items 516 01:42:31.590 --> 01:42:48.099 Conf. Room A: Makes sense. I'm curious that this says it's an action item, and, 6. It seems more informational, right. But I'm also wondering, like, so this is going to go to Council, so the staff report should have 517 01:42:48.200 --> 01:43:03.540 Conf. Room A: some mention about how this report was generated at this time, and the city's already been implementing the recommendations, so the things that… the original report, yeah, that's… it's important, but we've made XYZ changes so that… 518 01:43:03.540 --> 01:43:14.290 Conf. Room A: the Council doesn't get confused by it, and then also include that grant policy, too, as a reminder that we had already done that. 519 01:43:14.290 --> 01:43:32.159 Conf. Room A: So maybe we should have an item that says what you just said, as our… we handle this sometimes through a staff report, and Jonathan could include that the committee discussed this report, received it, and forwarded it to City Council, but with the caveats that the Mayor has just listed. 520 01:43:32.210 --> 01:43:45.219 Conf. Room A: I have a question for the consultant. Okay, clarifying questions, we're still on those, actually, and then don't let me forget, we gotta go to the public. So, from… so this report was done last year. 521 01:43:45.430 --> 01:43:48.440 Conf. Room A: And, I do wonder… 522 01:43:49.220 --> 01:43:59.439 Conf. Room A: how did you collect information to create this report? For example, those issues with grants we have observed. 523 01:43:59.590 --> 01:44:12.670 Conf. Room A: And it seems you are not aware of those. So, I wonder what kind of process you had used to create this report. Maybe… 524 01:44:12.840 --> 01:44:23.060 Conf. Room A: There are people you should have interviewed, but you didn't, so maybe the report should even be 525 01:44:23.910 --> 01:44:28.689 Conf. Room A: Delayed, so you can collect more complete information. 526 01:44:28.900 --> 01:44:31.550 Conf. Room A: Before making this recommendation. 527 01:44:32.460 --> 01:44:35.069 Conf. Room A: Do you want me to take a step up, or do you want to… 528 01:44:35.110 --> 01:44:46.259 Conf. Room A: You can… you can start, and then I can… Okay. I can add my two cents. Because I have two other examples of things didn't work before. So, the testing period was… 529 01:44:46.260 --> 01:44:59.400 Conf. Room A: again, at the beginning of fiscal year 25-26, and that's what they tested. But since then, or inconcurrently, there were some changes occurring within the city. One, with the, the, the, 530 01:44:59.400 --> 01:45:18.529 Conf. Room A: with the hiring of the grants analyst. And so, as the report was being generated, being, essentially circulated within the city for review, which was delayed a bit, due to staff turnover and the review process. So that's what delayed the report itself. 531 01:45:18.570 --> 01:45:34.880 Conf. Room A: And so it still retained the original testing period, but changes had already began, right? And that was part of the response. So you were saying, you only tested, any grants that's being applied, for during those periods? 532 01:45:35.000 --> 01:45:36.490 Conf. Room A: well, being… 533 01:45:37.020 --> 01:45:53.020 Conf. Room A: Not necessarily a slide, but review, right, it could be a combination of grants that were in progress, right? If we're, like, CDBG, that's a year-round and continual grant, right? And so, as they're testing that, 534 01:45:53.020 --> 01:46:05.159 Conf. Room A: we could be early on in the years, you know, may or may not have a lot of invoices, but if it's a grant that's kind of crossing a specific time period, they could be testing that… that one. So again, their testing period was 535 01:46:05.620 --> 01:46:11.769 Conf. Room A: A couple months, right? They're only looking at one specific time, but there could be other things more important. 536 01:46:12.240 --> 01:46:15.970 Conf. Room A: And the report was generated based off of that testing window. 537 01:46:16.310 --> 01:46:28.120 Conf. Room A: So if there were things happened before that testing window, and that we… we need a policy recommendation. 538 01:46:28.520 --> 01:46:34.900 Conf. Room A: For those grants, they cannot… they are not included, so how can we include those? 539 01:46:35.120 --> 01:46:45.219 Conf. Room A: Is it possible to revise the report to include, Things that we think 540 01:46:45.260 --> 01:47:01.489 Conf. Room A: could be improved on, and then have a revised the report. So, a couple things. I want to remind you, this report is not even from this past fiscal year. It was from the fiscal year before that. So, really, we're looking at an item that was from fiscal year 25. 541 01:47:01.490 --> 01:47:13.219 Conf. Room A: So I agree with Jonathan. This is a report and a, you know, a point of time, and we really need to move forward and think, you know, what is the future for the city? 542 01:47:13.220 --> 01:47:27.370 Conf. Room A: I think, you know, I do think that what your comments are valid, and I think that I would really lean into that next agenda item, which is talking about our internal audit plan for 27, and you can be specific 543 01:47:27.370 --> 01:47:44.720 Conf. Room A: in maybe that scope of work and saying, you know, these are specific… not only do we want you to follow up on the findings of this, but there are specific other areas that Council or this committee, you know, is concerned with that we would like to include in that scope. 544 01:47:44.720 --> 01:47:47.990 Conf. Room A: And that be a new report for the next fiscal year. 545 01:47:48.750 --> 01:48:00.089 Conf. Room A: I guess, and to chime in on that, there is a description in this report that you're asking us to complete… receive today on pages 546 01:48:00.090 --> 01:48:19.809 Conf. Room A: 4 and 5 that talks about your scope and methodology. So, maybe that addresses some of the Vice Mayor's comments, even though I agree that we should be looking at what's the current situation with the current analyst, and what do we expect would be helpful for cities and internal controls or operations from a future 547 01:48:19.810 --> 01:48:20.950 Conf. Room A: perspective. 548 01:48:21.150 --> 01:48:45.559 Conf. Room A: So I'd suggest that we receive this report, and maybe leave it at that, and City Council… City staff can do whatever, because we're not forwarding it to City Council, necessarily, as our action item, and then dive right into the next item on our agenda, which will address maybe in more depth what you're bringing up, Vice Mayor. I think the… it does say in the executive summary. 549 01:48:46.930 --> 01:48:56.100 Conf. Room A: Oh. That the internal control review took place between June and October 2025. 550 01:48:56.350 --> 01:49:08.529 Conf. Room A: That's a very short amount of time. So if your testing is only for those few months, so, of course, it's not going to capture 551 01:49:08.610 --> 01:49:26.760 Conf. Room A: the problems we have seen over the years, and you would not have captured things we need improve on. Right, so that actually… so that's how long the project took place. So the scope of our project was for fiscal year 25. 552 01:49:26.760 --> 01:49:44.429 Conf. Room A: So the project only… we worked on this project from June 25 through October of 2025, but the scope… so what the grant management process that we looked within the city was for fiscal year 25. 553 01:49:44.580 --> 01:49:46.959 Conf. Room A: So it was for a year. 554 01:49:47.230 --> 01:50:06.939 Conf. Room A: Also, before 2025. So it's one year, a snapshot of one year from July 2024 to June 2025. That's correct. That's not clear from your executive summary. 555 01:50:08.250 --> 01:50:09.330 Conf. Room A: Okay. 556 01:50:10.500 --> 01:50:16.480 Conf. Room A: I would kind of suggest that we could form a subcommittee to talk about, 557 01:50:16.480 --> 01:50:34.839 Conf. Room A: to test the grant concerns against the new policy, and what result would happen now if those were being suggested or pursued? What would be different, with a new policy? And… and just do that as an offline project. 558 01:50:35.270 --> 01:50:41.830 Conf. Room A: Yeah, so I'd like to mention two other major grants that 559 01:50:42.160 --> 01:50:56.800 Conf. Room A: The city staff has applied, too, maybe the subcommittee can consider. I don't want to cut you short, because those are super ideas that really would fit better, maybe, in our work plan, or in the, 560 01:50:56.950 --> 01:51:12.210 Conf. Room A: Next, item 7. Both of your comments, I think, are very relevant for those two items. Maybe a way to solve this one is the red… the staff response to just about every one of the recommendations based on 561 01:51:12.760 --> 01:51:19.599 Conf. Room A: What this, period was covered is basically there's been a grants manager hired that is 562 01:51:19.720 --> 01:51:36.920 Conf. Room A: now everything has superseded, so I hate to say it, but it's… it's just time has progressed forward, and we didn't get this report, or it couldn't be finalized, or whatever. So, to some extent, we could receive this report and highlight that management step… management's response is 563 01:51:36.920 --> 01:51:46.700 Conf. Room A: That there's all kinds of policy and personnel changes, and that we as a committee then, my response to that is. 564 01:51:46.700 --> 01:52:03.309 Conf. Room A: Let's address that in items 7 and 8. Is that your motion? I don't need a motion, necessarily. It's sort of clarifying the reception of the report, but we could, yeah, if you want to make a motion. So moved. Okay. Is there a second? Which would be me. 565 01:52:03.380 --> 01:52:21.389 Conf. Room A: I… New motion, so I can second it. Okay. Paris seconds it. I would like to request a change, though. The executive summary didn't make it clear. This is a review of only the fiscal year 2025, which is, 566 01:52:22.370 --> 01:52:37.810 Conf. Room A: from June… from July 2024. It's not a review of all of the city's grants management. So if we can make that clear in the title of the report, and then in the executive summary of the report. 567 01:52:38.230 --> 01:52:48.260 Conf. Room A: then I can accept it. Otherwise, I think it's confusing. Vice Mayor, it's in the first paragraph of the executive summary on the first page. 568 01:52:49.550 --> 01:52:52.730 Conf. Room A: It just says that the review took place. 569 01:52:53.620 --> 01:52:58.569 Conf. Room A: Right. During that time. Right. But it didn't say the data they used. 570 01:52:58.680 --> 01:53:02.720 Conf. Room A: For the review is for fiscal year 2025. 571 01:53:02.890 --> 01:53:14.759 Conf. Room A: So they only look at the grids that's being processed or in progress during those times. Okay, so I think it's super clear, but, 572 01:53:16.160 --> 01:53:30.600 Conf. Room A: I didn't say so, only a review of one year of rent. I think it's clear, too, because there's a lot of scope, and again, I really want to put this in the mirror. So I guess we… 573 01:53:31.020 --> 01:53:46.530 Conf. Room A: We don't have any public comment. We skipped over that and went to a motion, just to get our little procedural thing going. We didn't skip anybody because there was no one who had raised their hand. So I think we have a motion, and why don't we just vote on it, and… 574 01:53:46.620 --> 01:53:56.870 Conf. Room A: see where it goes. So, all in favor of the motion? Chair, I'm sorry, may I clarify the motion? And, also, I just wanted to clarify, so… 575 01:53:57.350 --> 01:54:03.290 Conf. Room A: Okay, well, let me just read what I… yeah, to receive the grants management internal 576 01:54:03.290 --> 01:54:18.759 Conf. Room A: Control Review Final Report with the understanding that the management's response notes that subsequent policy, personnel, and organizational changes have superseded many of the report's findings, and to address those changes further under items 7 and 8. 577 01:54:19.310 --> 01:54:25.710 Conf. Room A: I think that reflects… Jonathan, you have a slight modification? Just 7, not 8. Just… just 7? Correct. 578 01:54:26.940 --> 01:54:27.860 Conf. Room A: Okay. 579 01:54:28.240 --> 01:54:47.660 Conf. Room A: Mayor, is that reflective of what… yeah, I think so, so… Is the… is the committee making a recommendation to forward the report to Council, or is that automatic? Well, it's not automatic, and it is in our recommended action, but we can always modify our action, but I'm happy to forward it based on this motion as a clarifying 580 01:54:47.800 --> 01:54:50.240 Conf. Room A: thing, so… 581 01:54:50.240 --> 01:55:12.480 Conf. Room A: Why don't we vote on the motion first, and then address the… do you want that in the motion, is what you suggest? Well, it's part of the recommended action. I just wanted clarity. If you want to vote… if you want to, amend the motion to, forward the report to City Council. Great, and I so second agree, or whatever, if that's required. All right, all in favor of that, as so nicely re-read to us. 582 01:55:12.480 --> 01:55:13.639 Conf. Room A: Aye. Aye. 583 01:55:13.700 --> 01:55:19.949 Conf. Room A: Any opposed? Opposed. Okay, and there's only 3 of us, so, okay, very good. 584 01:55:19.950 --> 01:55:34.639 Conf. Room A: I appreciate the patience and discussion on this, that there's a lot of issues that we brought up, and I see that we're running a bit later than I anticipated. Can we… is everybody available to maybe address, 7 and… 585 01:55:34.640 --> 01:55:45.860 Conf. Room A: I don't want you to have to come a third day or something. City staff, can we stay here for a little bit longer while we go into Item 7, or… 586 01:55:45.920 --> 01:55:59.879 Conf. Room A: We don't need to… It's not like Council or the motion, we just keep going. Okay. Okay, I still… I am sensitive to the clock, and we can always defer that. We have that… I have that authority, I guess. So let's move on to our Item 7 action item. 587 01:56:00.210 --> 01:56:11.179 Conf. Room A: 2026-27 Internal Audit Work Program Review, and we'd like to receive that and forward to City Council as our action item, and over to 588 01:56:11.310 --> 01:56:34.479 Conf. Room A: Baker Tilly. Thank you. Alright, this is very exciting, talking about what we can do for the next fiscal year. So just a reminder of what we do at Baker Tilly. We serve as a designated internal auditor for the city, and we're really focusing on these areas. Risk, internal controls, efficiency and effectiveness, best practices, and then compliance. 589 01:56:34.560 --> 01:56:45.720 Conf. Room A: Our work is always completed under the appropriate industry standards, so the IIA, looking at government accounting standards, as well as the AICPA. 590 01:56:47.090 --> 01:57:05.620 Conf. Room A: All right, so what, you know, what is the role of an internal auditor? I think this is always something really important to look at. You know, we are an independent function, that really helps kind of look at the achievements and objectives of the city, and so if you look at this, this, you know. 591 01:57:05.930 --> 01:57:30.479 Conf. Room A: illustration. It's showing you how we have communication with both the governing bodies, so city council, this audit committee here, as well as management. And so there… it really shows that there is that third communication, and then all the communication lines, really making sure that we are separate from your external audit. And so, you know, you see that at the very 592 01:57:30.480 --> 01:57:38.559 Conf. Room A: Right-hand side of this illustration showing that, you know, your external assurance providers, so for your external auditor, the punk group. 593 01:57:38.560 --> 01:57:41.440 Conf. Room A: They are separate from this… this action. 594 01:57:42.990 --> 01:58:00.390 Conf. Room A: So, going into our internal audit program, you know, how do we come up with an internal audit program to present to you all today? There's many components, you know, the enterprise risk assessment, which we do, you know, every 3 to 5 years, 595 01:58:00.390 --> 01:58:23.579 Conf. Room A: getting input from employees and residents, as well as performance metrics for cities. We also look at general opportunities, so risk, controls, compliance, and performance. And then last but not least, that tracking and reporting. So, that validation report that we talked about earlier today, looking at those findings and recommendations, the fraud, waste, and abuse hotline. 596 01:58:23.580 --> 01:58:39.770 Conf. Room A: That would be another thing, looking at implementation that the city is, you know, has been doing, as well as that validation that we talked about. So, that is… those inputs really make up our internal audit program and what we present to you all. 597 01:58:41.190 --> 01:59:04.789 Conf. Room A: So, this is just another illustration, kind of talking, just again, what we talked about just now, looking at the internal audit program, and really just how it umbrellas all the different, components, as well as city functions. So we're not just looking at, you know, the finance department, we look at other areas, other departments within the city. So a really holistic approach. 598 01:59:05.130 --> 01:59:29.520 Conf. Room A: Just to kind of highlight what has the city done, you know, we've had two enterprise risk assessments, so, both in 2021 and 2024. We are currently in a citywide internal control review that we talked about earlier today. And we've also had some performance, so looking at the efficiency and effectiveness, so those performance audits, we've had 599 01:59:29.520 --> 01:59:48.950 Conf. Room A: 5 over the years, policies reviewed. We have looked at over 147 policies. To remind you, we did a City Council review this past fiscal year, as well as we are looking at the investment cash flow policy, also with the city. 600 01:59:49.450 --> 02:00:10.360 Conf. Room A: You all know this, there was, you know, some recommendations delivered. I look at this number, and I can tell you it is incorrect, because we know now that 79 also includes the external audit, as well as the civil, grand jury reports, so that is not correct. But we have delivered, you know. 601 02:00:10.600 --> 02:00:25.100 Conf. Room A: many recommendations. And there have been 39 ethics, hotline reports received over the years. And, you know, in fiscal year 26, we were able to validate 7 recommendations. 602 02:00:25.770 --> 02:00:29.520 Conf. Room A: So, kind of an idea of what we do with our time. 603 02:00:31.780 --> 02:00:46.180 Conf. Room A: This also just kind of shows you the different departments, and like I mentioned, it's not just looking at the finance department or the administrative services as a whole, but really we have dabbled in public works, we've done enterprise 604 02:00:46.180 --> 02:00:54.629 Conf. Room A: projects, so looking at, you know, the enterprise risk assessments, internal control review, city manager's office, and public works over our time. 605 02:00:57.610 --> 02:01:10.989 Conf. Room A: Next. All right. So this is, the… the big discussion item. So these are the, potential projects that we have identified for this fiscal year. 606 02:01:11.390 --> 02:01:15.410 Conf. Room A: What I will say is that… 607 02:01:15.570 --> 02:01:20.610 Conf. Room A: We have $120,000 currently budgeted 608 02:01:20.610 --> 02:01:40.859 Conf. Room A: In this fiscal year, we are bringing forth right now $230,000 of projects, so obviously, there's some pick and choose, or, you know, if there's other… other potential products or projects that this committee wants to bring up or identify for management, that's obviously open as well. 609 02:01:40.860 --> 02:01:55.289 Conf. Room A: So first one, code enforcement, so the 311 response time review, so evaluating the city's code enforcement complaint response process, really focusing on response times, staffing availability, and service delivery. 610 02:01:56.330 --> 02:02:13.480 Conf. Room A: A property tax review, so inventory, property tax revenues, and compared to relevant legislation, and agreements to identify opportunities to improve the understanding of those distributions, county service delivery, and intergovernmental funding. 611 02:02:14.080 --> 02:02:31.969 Conf. Room A: So, there has been also talks about the investment cash flow review. So, you know that this past fiscal year, we looked at the actual policy, so taking that policy and looking at the current processes that the city has and making sure that those align with the policy, making sure that it's 612 02:02:32.060 --> 02:02:34.329 Conf. Room A: You know, cohesive and fluid. 613 02:02:34.860 --> 02:02:51.929 Conf. Room A: A permitting efficiency study, so evaluating the efficiency and effectiveness of the city's permitting process, really identifying opportunities to streamline workflows, reduce process times, customer service, and overall service delivery. 614 02:02:52.710 --> 02:03:06.290 Conf. Room A: that grant management follow-up, something that we kind of talked about. So this, you know, this one we had really scoped around looking at those individual recommendations from that report, and really digging deeper into making sure that the city had 615 02:03:06.290 --> 02:03:16.930 Conf. Room A: completed those recommendations, you know, obviously room for suggestions by Vice Mayor about potential, you know, other opportunities for that scope. 616 02:03:17.370 --> 02:03:38.389 Conf. Room A: The recruitment and retention study, that's really assessing the city's recruitment and retention practices, really identifying opportunities to improve hiring efficiency, the… and really the city's ability to attract and retain those qualified employees, and making sure that there's long-term organizational stability for the city. 617 02:03:39.470 --> 02:03:59.459 Conf. Room A: The last two, that's program management and recommendation validations. Those two kind of go hand-in-hand with each other, and are really what we do on a quarterly basis with you all, as well as looking at the fraud, waste, and abuse hotline, and validating those recommendations, when it comes time. 618 02:04:01.990 --> 02:04:14.670 Conf. Room A: Thank you for the, introduction to the report, and we've all had, well, we've all reflected on these comments. My introductory… my introductory comments here are. 619 02:04:14.740 --> 02:04:27.230 Conf. Room A: Internal audit is a key function that the city hasn't had prior to 6 or so years ago, I think. It's a fundamental element, I think, within 620 02:04:27.550 --> 02:04:37.419 Conf. Room A: Yeah, good, good practice for, cities, and it was a response, in part, to the, depulcation and embezzlement that occurred. 621 02:04:37.480 --> 02:04:52.649 Conf. Room A: And so, in my, memory, am very happy to see that there is an internal audit function, so it's not limited only to the financial elements that, Baker Tilly has pointed out here. It's also can be operational. 622 02:04:52.650 --> 02:05:02.909 Conf. Room A: So, that's very exciting as well. My clarifying question after my introduction is, how much input did… were you taking from 623 02:05:02.910 --> 02:05:11.339 Conf. Room A: prior audit committee, discussions over the past year, or… and or city staff, input. 624 02:05:11.340 --> 02:05:30.740 Conf. Room A: That's a great question, and, definitely looked at, you know, what we have talked about, reflected what we've talked about over the past year, here at the Audit Committee. We also met, with Jonathan and his team, as well as the City Manager's team, as well, to kind of talk about those inputs. But, you know, thinking about 625 02:05:30.740 --> 02:05:45.469 Conf. Room A: the overarching looking at the enterprise risk assessment, that's a huge tool that our team uses to help utilize what would be really relevant, what are potentially high-risk areas that we had identified, you know, prior years that the city might want to look into. 626 02:05:46.900 --> 02:05:47.830 Conf. Room A: Bigger. 627 02:05:47.830 --> 02:06:11.480 Conf. Room A: Clarifying questions? Clarifying questions. Well, so, trying to prioritize, this list, because this, this is not… this is put in order of the cost, almost? Or were you trying to share, share this as a priority, or how… how did it end up in… You know, I… I would say it's, I don't think that there's any… 628 02:06:11.480 --> 02:06:17.440 Conf. Room A: priority. It was just kind of a list of… of projects, and I don't think we really even have a… it's not… 629 02:06:17.450 --> 02:06:36.969 Conf. Room A: any order, other than the last two are kind of things that we… we have to have program management, so that one, and then the validation, or recommendation validation, is something that this… the committee and the city has always encouraged. Okay, and we're budgeted at $120,000, but we can go 630 02:06:37.020 --> 02:07:01.199 Conf. Room A: we can go higher than that, and then Council can knock some things off. I'm wondering, with the investment cash flow review, if, staff feels comfortable with the cash flow policy that we have right now, because I saw that you did, like, you moved the money to get it down to the $5 million in that operating account, and you're using CalFit. So, to me, it's our… this is a problem that you are 631 02:07:01.410 --> 02:07:05.300 Conf. Room A: Have… have kind of… It… for the… 632 02:07:05.300 --> 02:07:24.260 Conf. Room A: present time, it's kind of solved, in my opinion. So I would say no to that one. Do you have a thought on that? Is that something… or for this list, are there things that you strongly are interested in? Because I can come up with four that I… like, permitting, 311, property tax, and recruitment, that 633 02:07:24.330 --> 02:07:42.179 Conf. Room A: that I would be interested in. I'm not sure if the recruitment part is particularly necessary at this particular time, because they've… we've just had a lot of… a number of hires. But the permitting, we hear a lot about that. 634 02:07:42.180 --> 02:07:48.219 Conf. Room A: A lot about 311, and then the property tax review, 635 02:07:48.550 --> 02:07:55.690 Conf. Room A: I can… I can share what this is about, Hmm. 636 02:07:56.060 --> 02:08:08.790 Conf. Room A: Which is… it has to go to our sheriff's contract. We were wealthy. But it goes into the sheriff's contract and trying to figure out 637 02:08:08.790 --> 02:08:25.549 Conf. Room A: the actual numbers that are coming to the city, because I'm able to estimate, but I need help with some of these, because the property tax embeds some other taxes in it, and sales tax, it's not super clear where it's all getting distributed, and… 638 02:08:25.630 --> 02:08:32.370 Conf. Room A: And I don't want to be, when we're doing our negotiations, saying falsehoods to the county. 639 02:08:32.850 --> 02:08:50.080 Conf. Room A: But I am saying that they get over $100 million from Cupertino each year, and that's something that we need to have. It can't be, I'm generating this number, that's… which is why I would definitely support, looking at the property tax distribution item. 640 02:08:50.150 --> 02:09:02.059 Conf. Room A: But are… were there some favorites in… in the list? Yeah, I will say that the recruitment and retention study, that was something that the city manager's office, or city manager, had requested. 641 02:09:02.060 --> 02:09:10.669 Conf. Room A: Current? Okay. And I think 311 and permitting were also pretty strong contenders. 642 02:09:10.920 --> 02:09:22.100 Conf. Room A: Yeah. So, I… I wonder whether, for property tax review, 643 02:09:23.470 --> 02:09:31.229 Conf. Room A: Is this appropriate for the Baker Tilly to do this study, or it's something really… 644 02:09:33.020 --> 02:09:37.019 Conf. Room A: Lobbyist, Lobbyist has been doing that study. 645 02:09:37.170 --> 02:09:48.890 Conf. Room A: No, no, so… No, they don't. So, the Bakefield Tealey has this expertise to study property tax? So, Colleen, I'm gonna lean on you on this one. 646 02:09:49.610 --> 02:10:09.309 Colleen Rozillis: Sure, so we do have folks in our, public sector financial operations group who can provide advisory on this. I would say from, an internal audit perspective, I actually talked about this with the chair last week, it's right on the line because it deals with policy a little bit more than it deals with maybe 647 02:10:09.310 --> 02:10:15.010 Colleen Rozillis: Operations, or the type of work that internal audit typically does. 648 02:10:15.010 --> 02:10:31.759 Colleen Rozillis: And so, while we do have the capability to do the work, we want to be pretty careful as your internal auditor about how the information is used. And, we also need to be a little bit thoughtful. The County of Santa Clara is not currently a Baker Tilly client, but 649 02:10:31.760 --> 02:10:48.559 Colleen Rozillis: The, Housing Authority, I believe, is, so we want to be thoughtful about independence as well. So we would want to scope this really carefully with you, should, you, the committee, choose to do this. And I understand, Mayor, that this is a priority of yours, so if we did choose to move forward, we'd want to sit down and 650 02:10:48.560 --> 02:10:52.470 Colleen Rozillis: Scope out in detail with you so that we both feel comfortable with that. 651 02:10:53.680 --> 02:10:59.460 Conf. Room A: I think that's a… maybe a clarifying question for me, is I look at these as high-level 652 02:10:59.600 --> 02:11:05.110 Conf. Room A: Priority items, once we get the list, agreed upon here as a committee. 653 02:11:05.110 --> 02:11:20.429 Conf. Room A: that we then are sending back to city staff an internal audit to scope more, as well as forwarding up to City Council for the budgeting look. So I think there's a lot of behind-the-scenes, scoping. We can call it scoping, I guess. 654 02:11:20.430 --> 02:11:33.780 Conf. Room A: To the extent any committee member maybe has an interest in that, we could either set up a subcommittee, which can consist of that one committee member, or we can have up to two of us, depending 655 02:11:33.780 --> 02:11:47.299 Conf. Room A: or I take direction from city staff, too, since there's a number of projects here, and we can't… I don't think internal audit can do many of these without information and support from the city staff, so… 656 02:11:47.300 --> 02:11:57.690 Conf. Room A: to the extent we're scoping things, I would presume city staff's got a big input into what can be done, and when can it be done, and who's doing it, and things like that, so… 657 02:11:57.690 --> 02:12:03.179 Conf. Room A: How do you suggest maybe this unfold? And remind us how this has unfolded in prior years. 658 02:12:03.830 --> 02:12:06.890 Conf. Room A: So, the, the top… 659 02:12:07.260 --> 02:12:27.169 Conf. Room A: is from what the mayor had, pointed out as her top projects, it looks like it's distributed across the city, that it's not heavy on one particular department, right? Okay. Code enforcement being the CDD, recruitment's probably going to be more along human resources. 660 02:12:27.360 --> 02:12:37.189 Conf. Room A: permitting kind of crosses both CDD and Public Works, so there might be a little more of a challenge there, but I'm sure, 661 02:12:37.300 --> 02:12:52.190 Conf. Room A: Colleen and Chelsea would be able to work around, the scheduling to ensure that there's not too much overlap there. Am I right? Yep. Okay, I don't want to speak for you guys, but yeah. And so there would be less of a draw on that one particular department. 662 02:12:52.280 --> 02:13:10.619 Conf. Room A: And then if the account… the committee wanted to pursue one of the others, it's probably being closer to the finance, whether that's the property tax, or the grants management, or even the cash flow, if the account… if the committee wanted to pursue that one. So as far as a… from my… 663 02:13:10.700 --> 02:13:17.619 Conf. Room A: Staff, workload, I don't think that's as much of an issue. 664 02:13:18.130 --> 02:13:33.530 Conf. Room A: again, at the end of the day, if you pursue most of these, or just even those top 3, you are looking to have a budget adjustment needed, right? Because I think with those top three, plus the recommended validations, we're looking at about… 665 02:13:33.580 --> 02:13:48.089 Conf. Room A: 180, I believe, so we would have to request the Council to… for an additional 60 plus if you wanted to add either one of the other three, which would be property tax permitting… I'm sorry, Property Tax Investment Cash Flow Review or the grant management follow-up. 666 02:13:48.140 --> 02:13:53.789 Conf. Room A: Or if there was a… another item that you wanted a follow- up, or… 667 02:13:53.960 --> 02:13:56.240 Conf. Room A: Conditional item, whether that's, I think. 668 02:13:56.440 --> 02:14:01.540 Conf. Room A: Chair, you know, we, we discussed possibly the. 669 02:14:01.540 --> 02:14:21.289 Conf. Room A: a report of sorts to be, provided in terms of the fund balance or appropriate fund balance, conversations with, Chelsea and Colleen have been more along the lines that it's probably going to be more of a management report rather than a full-blown, project. 670 02:14:21.340 --> 02:14:23.990 Conf. Room A: On those previous. 671 02:14:25.140 --> 02:14:42.750 Conf. Room A: Oh. And so that, that, that was just… I'm sorry. That's not on here, because it's not really from, conversations with, Colleen and Chelsea. It's not so much of a project, it's more… it would be closely to a report to kind of, hey, this is best practices per GFOA and whatnot. 672 02:14:43.030 --> 02:14:59.770 Conf. Room A: kind of something along the lines, and there would be… obviously, there would be some sort of… and Colleen, correct me if I'm wrong, it's more of a… some research kind of best practice, not so much what is the city doing, and how should a city… because a lot of that's really policy that's driving that. 673 02:15:00.520 --> 02:15:11.530 Conf. Room A: Yeah, and just to follow up, we would… most of our recommendation… or all of our recommendations are going to come… be based off of the GFOA guidance, so that's why we really said, you know, looking at the GFOA guidance. 674 02:15:12.140 --> 02:15:17.640 Conf. Room A: We could put that in a report, but is that really beneficial? But in regard to the… 675 02:15:17.740 --> 02:15:33.019 Conf. Room A: the study that's not on this list, just to clarify that. So, I think we're still trying to get clarifying questions, so you have a question, Vice Mayor? So, the other question is, regarding the permitting efficiency study. 676 02:15:33.290 --> 02:15:39.890 Conf. Room A: So… I think one of the work programs this year has been 677 02:15:40.060 --> 02:15:50.330 Conf. Room A: permitting streamlining, and the Planning Commission is already working on… it's towards the end of that, their review, and 678 02:15:50.600 --> 02:16:04.149 Conf. Room A: going to be streamlining, so I assume they already done some study, if they are doing the policy change modification on that. So… 679 02:16:04.400 --> 02:16:07.429 Conf. Room A: So I'm not sure… 680 02:16:08.730 --> 02:16:17.250 Conf. Room A: So this permitting efficiency, are you going to look at, then, 2026 year data, and then… 681 02:16:17.890 --> 02:16:24.880 Conf. Room A: But then that's… we… they prob… we are probably going to already change things next year. 682 02:16:25.030 --> 02:16:31.860 Conf. Room A: So how is… I think this is something where you really need, maybe last year. 683 02:16:32.690 --> 02:16:46.900 Conf. Room A: So I'm a little unsure about the timing of that. Okay, let's see if the city staff have a comment on… I guess you're more in tune. This is really a scoping thing. This is something you already worked with the planning about the timing of. 684 02:16:47.120 --> 02:17:06.709 Conf. Room A: Not yet. No, the permitting efficiency… actually, your top contenders actually came from City Manager's Office, which was the code enforcement response time review, along with, permitting efficiency study and the recruitment and Retention Study. That was the City Manager's Office recommendations. 685 02:17:06.750 --> 02:17:14.739 Conf. Room A: And so, whether that has kind of shifted a little bit due to the Planning Commission's involvement, 686 02:17:15.580 --> 02:17:18.270 Conf. Room A: And probably at the end of the day, that, 687 02:17:18.760 --> 02:17:21.299 Conf. Room A: I'm not sure, well, in terms of 688 02:17:21.480 --> 02:17:35.180 Conf. Room A: testing and what period it's going to cover? Look to Colleen. Yeah, we… I mean, we can… we can work with the city on that. So, you know, depending on the scheduling of when we do that project, that's something that we always work with city management on. 689 02:17:35.180 --> 02:17:44.059 Conf. Room A: As well as, you know, really defining the scope and timing… the time frame that we're looking into, you know, that… those are all… 690 02:17:44.059 --> 02:17:48.900 Conf. Room A: Really refined once we get an idea of what projects to be working on. 691 02:17:49.230 --> 02:18:01.729 Conf. Room A: So in this situation, let's say there is some adjustments to the workflow, and that occurs in the first half of the fiscal year. Maybe, Baker Teely can do the review in the second half to see how that's being implemented. 692 02:18:02.850 --> 02:18:05.080 Conf. Room A: If that… that's direction, right? 693 02:18:05.660 --> 02:18:22.409 Conf. Room A: It does seem like the recommendation validations is something that we do want to continue. Like, we have to ask to have that go on. And what is exactly this… the program management again? I'm sorry. 694 02:18:22.410 --> 02:18:43.350 Conf. Room A: So that's, you know, having me here right now, doing our monthly updates with Jonathan and team to talk about project status, reviewing the fraud, waste, and abuse hotline, making sure… monitoring that, creating these reports, that sort of thing. That seems almost like the recommendation validation, like, like. 695 02:18:43.350 --> 02:18:54.469 Conf. Room A: you need to continue that. Right, those two, and that's… so typically, those two are, we almost combine, you know, and we've done in prior years, and just those are… 696 02:18:54.680 --> 02:19:13.610 Conf. Room A: kind of the ones that we have to do. Okay, that's like a basic thing. Yes, so we would end up… if you went with Recruitment 311 and permitting, you're at 140, and then, so 170 out of the 270. So you could still send it to Council with that 697 02:19:13.940 --> 02:19:25.600 Conf. Room A: even though it's above the 120, I don't know if property tax could be done by a combination of HDL and city staff and Jason, 698 02:19:25.840 --> 02:19:27.520 Conf. Room A: You know, and how… 699 02:19:27.580 --> 02:19:36.789 Conf. Room A: perfect do those numbers need to be in order to advocate? So, for Colleen's question about what the numbers are going to be used for, it'll be used for 700 02:19:36.820 --> 02:19:51.389 Conf. Room A: advocacy for the city. So we have this disparity between the amount of property tax our city gets versus other cities. We're much lower for the property tax that we get back, and that's really the 701 02:19:51.450 --> 02:20:05.810 Conf. Room A: the crux of the matter is to see what we can do to advocate for the city moving forward, long-term, through some sort of legislative change in Sacramento, if at all possible, or, 702 02:20:06.240 --> 02:20:17.259 Conf. Room A: if there's anything we can do about that. So that's why the numbers need to be, defensible. But I'm not sure if Baker Tilly's the right 703 02:20:18.360 --> 02:20:25.940 Conf. Room A: entity to do that, and if you feel comfortable knowing what we're going to be using the numbers for. 704 02:20:27.060 --> 02:20:31.640 Colleen Rozillis: I have some thoughts, and I… I… 705 02:20:32.190 --> 02:20:39.130 Colleen Rozillis: First and foremost, you're reliant on county data, right? The county is the ultimate tax collector. 706 02:20:39.160 --> 02:20:56.899 Colleen Rozillis: And so you will be relying on county data for all of this analysis and what is available to you, and ideally everything is available publicly, but the reliance and cooperation with the county is going to be really important through this process as well. It may… 707 02:20:57.520 --> 02:21:07.360 Colleen Rozillis: it may be worthwhile for you all to consider who you would like to be involved in that, just from that perspective, because your relationship with the county is really important, right? It's not limited to just 708 02:21:07.430 --> 02:21:18.570 Colleen Rozillis: this, but you have to work together on many items. So I would, recommend talking maybe with the city manager and with the finance director a little bit more about how you'd like to go 709 02:21:18.590 --> 02:21:33.769 Colleen Rozillis: about the work before you, engage someone to do it. We certainly can do the analysis. In our professional standards, we're not allowed to advocate for our clients, but we can make you recommendations, or we can provide data. 710 02:21:35.720 --> 02:21:36.380 Conf. Room A: Okay. 711 02:21:37.830 --> 02:21:53.380 Conf. Room A: So, my question is, what's most useful here? This is both for the committee and staff and internal auditors. We… all of these projects do… in some sense, we don't have a budget constraint, because we can, as the mayor indicated. 712 02:21:53.600 --> 02:21:59.470 Conf. Room A: bend all of these up, and say, you know, if you think of some more, add those, too. 713 02:21:59.860 --> 02:22:04.449 Conf. Room A: Or, we could try to delete some of these, or… 714 02:22:04.670 --> 02:22:23.499 Conf. Room A: some other hybrid approach, so how do we make the rest of our meeting efficient here? I know we had a great discussion on grant management follow-up, and there's… there's probably lots of follow-up items that we could specify in the scoping, and Vice Mayor had some really good comments that we don't want to forget that she had them, but I'm not sure this is the… 715 02:22:23.500 --> 02:22:37.810 Conf. Room A: maybe we… if we said we wanted to move forward with grant management follow-up, then we need some more input, and city staff would assemble that scoping and maybe solicit the Vice Mayor's comments. I'm just talking out loud here, I'm trying to figure a way to move forward with this. 716 02:22:38.100 --> 02:22:49.429 Conf. Room A: Do we really want to delete any of these items? Is there an app… that's one way to go about it. I'm not… I don't have an appetite to delete any of them, since I've removed budget constraint and the personnel constraint. 717 02:22:49.560 --> 02:23:06.220 Conf. Room A: Thoughts? Right, you could prioritize. The only one that I could see potentially getting removed is the cash flow review, investment and cash flow review at this time. But if in… by investment we mean talking about reserves. 718 02:23:06.220 --> 02:23:21.969 Conf. Room A: if that's… if that could be assumed to be embedded in that item, then maybe add that word into the project description, to get the best practices on reserves, because I've been wanting to hear that, 719 02:23:22.170 --> 02:23:23.190 Conf. Room A: So… 720 02:23:23.290 --> 02:23:32.729 Conf. Room A: So that was the only one that I could remove, but if you add in the reserve, then I really want it, yeah. And then you could… we could, 721 02:23:32.880 --> 02:23:47.779 Conf. Room A: prioritize, but also, like, like recommended validations and program management seems like that has to move forward, so I would put that on the top of the list, as these are… these two are deemed necessary. 722 02:23:47.800 --> 02:23:54.430 Conf. Room A: and then I… and then we could prioritize recruitment 311 or permitting, 723 02:23:54.660 --> 02:24:12.689 Conf. Room A: and just give a prioritized list to the Council, and they can discuss it. With the entire list, though, available. Sure, I like that idea. So, before we go too much into talking about that, we're still, showing… why don't we just… are there any comments from the public? 724 02:24:13.950 --> 02:24:31.409 Conf. Room A: Sure, I see no… Right, sometimes they come late. So, one more question. Yeah, sure, now we can, maybe move a motion, too, if you want. So, regarding the grant management follow-up, it says. 725 02:24:31.410 --> 02:24:35.689 Conf. Room A: Follow up on outstanding recommendations and assess. 726 02:24:35.690 --> 02:24:38.539 Conf. Room A: progress the city has made. 727 02:24:38.690 --> 02:24:57.800 Conf. Room A: So, so here you are referring to the grants management final report, the recommendations made there? Correct. So… Based on the one-year review, right? There is a lot of really great, recommendations there already. 728 02:24:57.870 --> 02:25:06.719 Conf. Room A: Right, and so you were saying, does this project involve follow-up on those recommendations? Does that… So that… 729 02:25:06.970 --> 02:25:14.540 Conf. Room A: project will… the… Working with the city staff to implement those recommendations. 730 02:25:14.950 --> 02:25:27.190 Conf. Room A: That's in that report? Right, so doing a really… Doesn't that mean the Council has to approve those recommendations rather than just receive the report? 731 02:25:27.540 --> 02:25:30.890 Conf. Room A: Because those recommendations, I think some of them are… 732 02:25:31.200 --> 02:25:36.039 Conf. Room A: Pretty involved, in terms of implementation and stuff. 733 02:25:40.490 --> 02:25:48.010 Conf. Room A: The report will be, forwarded to Council, and I believe Council's action is just to receive the report. 734 02:25:49.280 --> 02:25:52.190 Conf. Room A: As that's how it's been in the past. Okay. 735 02:25:52.410 --> 02:25:58.110 Conf. Room A: But then, so it will… the staff will decide 736 02:25:58.570 --> 02:26:04.010 Conf. Room A: I guess some priority on what the recommendation is to implement, and how. 737 02:26:05.030 --> 02:26:14.279 Conf. Room A: Maybe if I could outline how… follow up on that, maybe all the recommendations in that report would go into the equivalent of the 79 number that we saw. 738 02:26:14.280 --> 02:26:34.170 Conf. Room A: And then staff will talk with internal audit, and some of the things will go away because of the new grant management analyst that's been brought on, the new policy that's apparently out there, and then internal audit would evaluate whether those two facts are actually true, and then they would put it in the resolution column. Is that how you would envision it? 739 02:26:35.190 --> 02:26:41.350 Conf. Room A: That is one way, yes, absolutely. You know, I know, Vice Mayor, you had other 740 02:26:41.560 --> 02:26:54.290 Conf. Room A: areas that you wanted to look into, so that's… I mean, these are potential, you know, obviously we can mold them to what is most beneficial for the city, and what management thinks they can take on. 741 02:26:57.570 --> 02:26:58.640 Conf. Room A: Does that help? 742 02:26:59.060 --> 02:27:11.360 Conf. Room A: Yeah, so I guess go back to what we talked about, some earlier grants that, we had concerns on, 743 02:27:12.570 --> 02:27:19.490 Conf. Room A: So, that may… Require some case study, 744 02:27:20.190 --> 02:27:24.959 Conf. Room A: how they… those come about. So, one example is the augmented reality app. 745 02:27:25.210 --> 02:27:30.060 Conf. Room A: And I think another example is, the CT re… 746 02:27:30.450 --> 02:27:35.859 Conf. Room A: received a grant to redevelop the heart of the city plan. 747 02:27:36.350 --> 02:27:46.480 Conf. Room A: which the council never requested, but the city got almost $500,000 grant. I think $450. And… 748 02:27:48.210 --> 02:27:58.389 Conf. Room A: But the same grant, we could have applied for other things that could have gotten approved. Then, at the time, the council didn't 749 02:27:58.720 --> 02:28:06.630 Conf. Room A: See the need to… Redo the heart of the city plan. So we eventually… didn't… 750 02:28:07.330 --> 02:28:20.540 Conf. Room A: didn't receive… didn't, I think, accept the grant. So that's a wasted, effort, because there wasn't, it wasn't synchronized with the council priority at the time. 751 02:28:21.530 --> 02:28:25.220 Conf. Room A: And… and another example is, 752 02:28:25.630 --> 02:28:41.349 Conf. Room A: the ATP Active Transportation Plan, that grant for… we were being presented, oh, this project is founded by this particular VTA grant, therefore we have to 753 02:28:41.660 --> 02:28:43.529 Conf. Room A: Move forward with the project. 754 02:28:43.680 --> 02:28:59.670 Conf. Room A: Otherwise, we will lose the grant. It's always been like that, right? The other one was also, we already got the grant, you have to approve the project. So the ATP, we kind of said, we moved forward with that. But the same type of grant 755 02:28:59.990 --> 02:29:11.029 Conf. Room A: could also be applied to other transportation projects in the city. It doesn't have to be used for this particular project. 756 02:29:11.150 --> 02:29:15.110 Conf. Room A: So this has been a way that 757 02:29:15.540 --> 02:29:19.310 Conf. Room A: the grant approval is driving council 758 02:29:19.480 --> 02:29:22.920 Conf. Room A: Priority, rather than the other way around. 759 02:29:23.340 --> 02:29:46.630 Conf. Room A: I'm… you know, one recommendation I might make if the committee is interested in that project, it sounds like, you know, with this new policy that has been developed and implemented, we could take a look at that policy and test it against certain grants to make sure that the process and, you know, all the way to Council approval 760 02:29:46.630 --> 02:30:02.510 Conf. Room A: is done appropriately, and we can see the process laid out against this new policy to make sure that, you know, these instances that you're talking about don't happen again, or there's something that could slip through the cracks. 761 02:30:02.510 --> 02:30:12.350 Conf. Room A: Yeah, if we can have some case studies, these cases, the new process would have handled this way. That would be helpful. 762 02:30:12.560 --> 02:30:18.190 Conf. Room A: And another example, is, the BMR grant. 763 02:30:18.480 --> 02:30:24.550 Conf. Room A: Not rent. This is actually BMR fees. So this is not grant. I'm not sure. 764 02:30:24.770 --> 02:30:28.530 Conf. Room A: where it's applied, but the BMR fees has been… 765 02:30:29.060 --> 02:30:32.660 Conf. Room A: Used to pay for legal fees. 766 02:30:32.950 --> 02:30:43.400 Conf. Room A: That's, not related exactly to below market rate, and for newspaper subscription, and the public has brought this up to us. 767 02:30:44.810 --> 02:30:54.369 Conf. Room A: So… This is probably not rent, But then it's, 768 02:30:54.690 --> 02:31:14.459 Conf. Room A: a way how… how we use different funds for different, functions. I think another example was, I think we had… we had… there was some issue with the HUD grant that we somehow did not report properly. 769 02:31:14.660 --> 02:31:21.990 Conf. Room A: That was resolved, but then… Would the current process prevent us from, 770 02:31:22.180 --> 02:31:40.260 Conf. Room A: making the same mistake again, so maybe, yeah, staff has some comments. Yeah, you bring up… so we recently had a special revenue fund, project, and that addressed the concerns you had with the BMR, which the new process has been 771 02:31:40.260 --> 02:31:46.040 Conf. Room A: Essentially, a lot of it, ultimately, was staffing, 772 02:31:46.410 --> 02:31:56.290 Conf. Room A: training and whatnot. But, yeah, so that one has been put to rest. We have implemented a process to address that, that, that issue. 773 02:31:57.400 --> 02:32:12.390 Conf. Room A: basically administrative overhead is going to… getting paid for from the general fund, so BMR is just going towards building BMRs, rather than having all this other administrative stuff pulling 774 02:32:12.570 --> 02:32:17.240 Conf. Room A: from that. There's been a lot more, restrictions and… 775 02:32:17.240 --> 02:32:35.050 Conf. Room A: to even director oversight of that specific fund to ensure that, nothing slips between the cracks, that it's more, what we're allowing to, or what expenses are funneling through into that fund is… are actually more restricted. Although the… the handbook is… 776 02:32:35.050 --> 02:32:38.050 Conf. Room A: could… Be more inclusive, 777 02:32:38.500 --> 02:32:50.040 Conf. Room A: administratively, we've restricted what actually goes to that fund. Okay, so I think the hard grant is probably related to CDPG grant? Correct. And so that will also go through… 778 02:32:50.180 --> 02:33:07.319 Conf. Room A: the same process, or it's a different process? We, I believe it's a separate process, because it's kind of… different rules apply to CDBG. However, it is managed by the same individuals, so… and, Nikki… 779 02:33:07.320 --> 02:33:14.579 Conf. Room A: He's, quite knowledgeable with CDBG, and so, I'm quite, 780 02:33:14.590 --> 02:33:23.040 Conf. Room A: confident in his abilities to ensure that the expenses that are allocated to that fund are appropriate. 781 02:33:23.170 --> 02:33:28.540 Conf. Room A: Mayor. Thank you. So I did run this through Claude. 782 02:33:28.680 --> 02:33:45.040 Conf. Room A: And asked Claude to prioritize the list, in order of importance, and they did it based on fiduciary risk, financial materiality, how directly each ties to active city priorities, and came up with the investment cash flow 783 02:33:45.200 --> 02:34:00.379 Conf. Room A: first to last, investment cash flow review from 35. They said, the highest fiduciary risk category, safeguarding of public funds. This is the kind of audit that protects against fraud, mismanagement, and exposure, and is often treated as core recurring due diligence. 784 02:34:00.550 --> 02:34:25.499 Conf. Room A: Number two, and I would argue who should do this, but it was the property tax review, directly complements your ongoing AV8 allocation, URAF and VLF swap work. This audit could formalize and validate the analysis you're already doing informally and has real revenue implications. I don't think they're overstating that, but three, permitting efficiency study. Highest fee but permitting delays have direct economic 785 02:34:25.500 --> 02:34:33.559 Conf. Room A: development and revenue consequences. Developer relations, fee capture, staff time, high visibility, and high potential return on investment. 786 02:34:33.610 --> 02:34:37.289 Conf. Room A: For recruitment and retention study, 45,000 work… 787 02:34:37.290 --> 02:34:55.390 Conf. Room A: Workforce risk affects every other city function. Turnover and vacancy costs compound over time. This is foundational to organizational capacity. And 311 response time review, important for service delivery and public trust, but lower financial fiduciary risk than the items above. 788 02:34:55.390 --> 02:35:03.310 Conf. Room A: Grant management follow-up, compliance-driven grantor requirements, clawback risks, but scoped as a follow-up rather than a new risk area. 789 02:35:03.310 --> 02:35:12.299 Conf. Room A: And then the last two were the program management and validations. But they said program management, necessary overhead to keep the audit function running. 790 02:35:12.620 --> 02:35:36.740 Conf. Room A: recommended validation, lowest cost, largely administrative stacking of prior findings, important for accountability. Keep in mind, AI, like, tend to give you a recommendation based on your past, questions. Which is why… Which is why, yeah, those are on top. So it's… Oh, but I haven't asked about the other one. These other things are all new. 791 02:35:36.740 --> 02:35:39.379 Conf. Room A: But I think… I know, it tends to bias. 792 02:35:39.380 --> 02:35:41.980 Conf. Room A: Based on what they know about you. 793 02:35:41.980 --> 02:36:06.650 Conf. Room A: It does that to me. But of my own accord, I went with recruitment, property tax, 311, and permitting, and then add REC validation and program… Sometimes I create a new account and ask again. We'll have different recommendations. I think we can also look at process. There's one element of process. We'd be here a lot later tonight if we hadn't had a 794 02:36:06.650 --> 02:36:25.900 Conf. Room A: tracking of our comments over the past year in our various meetings, so it's not that it's just this meeting that we're talking about. There's other projects that got excluded. There's, you know, we've settled on this list, so there's still the scoping element for each one of them. I think maybe we might want to make a note for the following year that 795 02:36:25.920 --> 02:36:43.209 Conf. Room A: whenever we get to the next item, which we won't probably tonight, but the work plan that we have, that's when we've often said, well, wouldn't it be good if we could do this or that? And I know you've raised a few of those over the past year, so I'm very happy that we're at this stage. I think we're at the point where we could maybe 796 02:36:43.210 --> 02:36:50.959 Conf. Room A: keep the… I don't hear anyone really having an appetite to remove items on here, but maybe the priority of them is something in doubt. 797 02:36:50.960 --> 02:37:01.269 Conf. Room A: we could maybe get consensus on that. I'm not even sure that's helpful, though. The City Council's going to probably want to come fresh at this list if we forward it, and… 798 02:37:01.320 --> 02:37:15.819 Conf. Room A: But you two are both on the Council. Is it helpful for us to come up with a priority, in some way, and then does that have weight with the City Council? I mean, the two of you would then support it, I suppose. 799 02:37:15.820 --> 02:37:27.259 Conf. Room A: Well, you have two that are automatic, so you only have 6 to prioritize. Property Tax Review gets a question mark for who's best to do that, so you could 800 02:37:27.260 --> 02:37:38.279 Conf. Room A: remove it, or just put it to the side, and say, this one, we're not sure how best to handle it. Well, I think we can keep it, and then say city staff and internal audit, and… 801 02:37:38.280 --> 02:37:58.240 Conf. Room A: Of course, any other people that have input, like the mayor, would then come up with a little bit more scoping before it would go to City Council. I would think some more work on… where I see us having our value here is saying we could list these items, all of them right now, for example, and then say the top five, from our perspective, are 802 02:37:58.470 --> 02:38:09.750 Conf. Room A: Our top four. And then… but all of them are valuable, and more scoping is going to come from internal audit and city staff before it gets to City Council. 803 02:38:09.750 --> 02:38:27.489 Conf. Room A: And then even more scoping might come at City Council, saying, well, they want… you guys want more, the whole committee does. How about that as an approach? So keep property tax in there, but it needs some more scoping, so Colleen is happy, and you're happy, and city staff's happy. Okay, so could… should we each say what our top 804 02:38:27.490 --> 02:38:38.639 Conf. Room A: Why don't you propose one, and we'll just, agree or disagree. Just, I've got the recruitment property tax 311, and permitting. I… well, I'm fine with those. 805 02:38:38.790 --> 02:38:55.800 Conf. Room A: But… Okay. Vice Mayor, you got one that you would prefer to elevate among those? This is a priority, ChatGPT, which is my go-to. So ChatGPT puts permitting efficiency first, code enforcement second. 806 02:38:55.930 --> 02:39:09.360 Conf. Room A: Property tax reveals third, grant management follow-up, and investment cash flow, and recruitment and retention study. So it's, like, totally different. 807 02:39:09.850 --> 02:39:14.640 Conf. Room A: Priority. Whoa. 808 02:39:16.100 --> 02:39:30.990 Conf. Room A: Do you support that priority, or can we maybe… I do think property tax review might be best to handle, separately, because we need those numbers for a different purpose. It's not really for… 809 02:39:31.110 --> 02:39:42.750 Conf. Room A: an audit, it's really for advocacy. So… So what I'm hearing… You're saying the number need to be defensible, right? So it might be best to… 810 02:39:43.150 --> 02:39:50.480 Conf. Room A: what I'm hearing, we can probably group the permitting, recruitment, and V11 as your top three, not any particular order. 811 02:39:50.930 --> 02:40:03.259 Conf. Room A: Followed by grant… at least com… some of the comments is probably grant, followed by investment cash, and then lastly, property tax, with the, 812 02:40:03.710 --> 02:40:08.930 Conf. Room A: The, the last two being, Automatic. 813 02:40:09.560 --> 02:40:10.840 Conf. Room A: Okay. 814 02:40:10.940 --> 02:40:16.500 Conf. Room A: So, the… For recruitment and retention. 815 02:40:17.290 --> 02:40:20.660 Conf. Room A: I think the mayor initially also didn't… 816 02:40:21.130 --> 02:40:26.830 Conf. Room A: I think that's important, right? That one is also the… it's the lowest… 817 02:40:27.190 --> 02:40:43.009 Conf. Room A: In my list, except the team and program management, so… Well, which department… I'm wondering… Public Works… Needs that… Some stabilization, it seems. 818 02:40:43.170 --> 02:41:03.070 Conf. Room A: I think that's a very important one right there. So I can agree with the permitting, recruitment, and 311 in the top group, and we could present it that way, you know, this is our top group, this is a must-have program management, and then we have… just break it into a Tier 1 and Tier 2. 819 02:41:03.300 --> 02:41:17.669 Conf. Room A: Tier 1 permitting, recruitment, and 311, because it's… because our… the manager's asking for recruitment, I would say. If she's identified that, we should probably support her on that, and then go with the grant investment and property tax, and just call it Tier 2. 820 02:41:17.800 --> 02:41:27.879 Conf. Room A: In no particular order, and have that identified, is that these are not in order, this is our first upper group and our lower group, and then our automatic group. 821 02:41:30.580 --> 02:41:34.210 Conf. Room A: I like that approach. I can get behind it. Okay. Okay. 822 02:41:34.220 --> 02:41:54.029 Conf. Room A: Vice Mayor, you're nodding, it sounds like. All right, so why don't we have a motion that, but I do have a question, still about the recruitment and retention. This seems to… this is, again, this is not a typical internal audit function, it overlaps with HR. 823 02:41:54.670 --> 02:42:04.760 Conf. Room A: That's something I think the… the cities… the HR department has been doing over the years, right? 824 02:42:04.980 --> 02:42:07.670 Conf. Room A: So, how would this be different? 825 02:42:08.600 --> 02:42:11.109 Conf. Room A: If you recall… He's appropriate. Yeah. 826 02:42:11.110 --> 02:42:27.919 Colleen Rozillis: If you recall Chelsea's presentation, our scope is not just internal controls, it's also performance, efficiency, and effectiveness. So, our goal is to help out across the city based on its highest risk areas. Our enterprise risk assessment did identify this as a higher risk area, and that it was 827 02:42:27.920 --> 02:42:35.640 Colleen Rozillis: Requested by the city manager, but our scope is quite any part of city operations that could increase the city's risk. 828 02:42:35.640 --> 02:42:44.140 Colleen Rozillis: And your ability to recruit and retain employees is certainly an area of operational risk, and every time there's turnover, it costs the city money, too. 829 02:42:44.450 --> 02:42:48.469 Conf. Room A: Yeah, but then do you have the expertise in this area? 830 02:42:49.040 --> 02:42:54.550 Colleen Rozillis: Yes, yeah, we do. We've done dozens of HR-related public sector studies. 831 02:42:54.550 --> 02:42:57.280 Conf. Room A: Have you done any recruitment? 832 02:42:57.790 --> 02:42:58.580 Colleen Rozillis: Yes, yeah. 833 02:42:58.580 --> 02:43:01.020 Conf. Room A: Your company does recruitment? 834 02:43:01.440 --> 02:43:13.560 Colleen Rozillis: We don't do recruitment itself, we do assessments of performance, efficiency, and effectiveness related to, what the city's goals are and best practice. 835 02:43:13.600 --> 02:43:21.560 Colleen Rozillis: But we have folks on our team who are actually, retired or former, municipal human resources directors. 836 02:43:22.290 --> 02:43:28.800 Conf. Room A: Okay. Great. Why don't we, try to get a motion here that would, 837 02:43:28.840 --> 02:43:49.699 Conf. Room A: I suggest, on the tiers and to City Council that we're supportive of these, and of course, more detail is available and will likely be available before presentation. So I move that we create two tiers, and these are in no particular order within the tier, that we have the permitting, 838 02:43:49.700 --> 02:44:11.030 Conf. Room A: the recruitment and 311 in… considered Tier 1. Tier 2 would be the grants, investment, cash flow, and property tax, and then we will have the… I don't know how to identify it, but the automatic, baseline items, would be, project management and recommendation validation. 839 02:44:11.380 --> 02:44:20.580 Conf. Room A: Those are specifically required, so these are really automatic. Authentic, yeah. They must… must be included. 840 02:44:20.730 --> 02:44:21.899 Conf. Room A: Must haves. 841 02:44:22.550 --> 02:44:35.499 Conf. Room A: Why don't I second it, since… Okay, yeah. Then we can, discuss our motion. We've got a motion. I think that was clear. Do we need to re-read it back? We're good? Okay, I like it. Any other thoughts to… 842 02:44:35.800 --> 02:44:51.299 Conf. Room A: Ed? Chair, are you… are you receiving the report and forwarding it to the City Council? Yes, with our comment, the motion… As amended. The tier… the tiered… oh, I guess we're forwarding the report with the tiers that are in the motion. 843 02:44:51.470 --> 02:45:00.580 Conf. Room A: We'll be sure to include that as part of the staff report. Perfect. Yeah, alright. Good clarification. All right, all in favor of this motion? Aye. 844 02:45:00.750 --> 02:45:08.819 Conf. Room A: unanimous of the three of us. All right, thank you. We do have one more item, which we can just maybe scurry really quickly through, which is… 845 02:45:08.990 --> 02:45:23.090 Conf. Room A: the Excel sheet, and thank you, Colleen and Chelsea, for leading us through. Sorry it's gotten a little bit later than we all anticipated. You had to come back two times, but the poor Vice Mayor here had even more trouble, so… 846 02:45:23.090 --> 02:45:46.870 Conf. Room A: Thank you, everyone. And our last sheet is, we keep track of this, so again, I think it fits in well with this last internal audit discussion we had. The idea is, as we come up with things, we can have a subcommittee, or we can suggest internal audit due, and I'm much more in favor of settling on the internal audit before city staff can actually do reports itself, so… and a number of them are forthcoming, so… 847 02:45:46.870 --> 02:45:52.020 Conf. Room A: Any changes that anyone has to this? Thanks, Jonathan, for keeping it. 848 02:45:52.110 --> 02:46:10.939 Conf. Room A: Obviously, we see this every meeting, so, I'd suggest we just move forward, but, more studies certainly welcomed by everybody. All right. One recommendation I have, we've already, for next October 26th, you've already received the citywide control… oh, citywide control review. 849 02:46:10.940 --> 02:46:16.809 Conf. Room A: Excuse me, I'm not seeing correctly. I thought there was a citywide policy. We're good. Right. 850 02:46:17.210 --> 02:46:26.429 Conf. Room A: Yeah, all right. This is nice. On that happy note… Oh, yeah, public comment on our item 8, I totally forgot. 851 02:46:26.640 --> 02:46:32.550 Conf. Room A: the last person… hopefully we, do we have any? No, Chair, never. All right, on that happy note. 852 02:46:32.550 --> 02:46:46.709 Conf. Room A: Thanks, everybody. We are concluded. There's no motion for that? Is our motion? No, we don't do a motion on it. We accept it as an information item and receive it, but often we have many discussions on it. So, we are adjourned. 853 02:46:46.750 --> 02:46:49.300 Conf. Room A: Okay. And we can flash up here. 854 02:46:49.500 --> 02:46:52.830 Conf. Room A: We can talk some more, off the record. 855 02:46:53.080 --> 02:46:59.819 Conf. Room A: I'll leave, I'll see. Next time. 856 02:47:00.230 --> 02:47:00.990 Conf. Room A: Yeah, thank you.