The URL can be used to link to this page

Home My WebLink AboutPC 07-14-2026 Youtube and Zoom TranscriptWEBVTT 1 00:00:09.700 --> 00:00:15.510 Community Hall: Hello, and welcome to the Planning Commission meeting for Tuesday, July 14th. Please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. 2 00:00:36.450 --> 00:00:53.309 Community Hall: Thank you very much. So, before we move to the approval of minutes, I would like to just reorder some agenda items, for the, flow… Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. We will do the roll call first. City Clerk, may we please have the roll call? Commissioner Fung? Present. 3 00:00:53.310 --> 00:01:00.260 Community Hall: Commissioner Linscog? Here. Commissioner Rao? Here. Vice Chair Sharp? Here. Chair Kasolcheron? Here. 4 00:01:03.070 --> 00:01:17.710 Community Hall: Thank you very much. Okay, now we will move to reorder some agenda items. I would like to move the staff and commission reports and future agenda setting to after agenda. Item 2, which is the study session, but before agenda. Item 3, the Atp. 5 00:01:17.900 --> 00:01:27.959 Community Hall: So, just, informing everyone of that change. Now we will move on to the approval of the minutes for the June 23rd Planning Commission meeting. Do we have any motion for that? 6 00:01:30.250 --> 00:01:31.120 Community Hall: So, more. 7 00:01:32.020 --> 00:01:33.089 Community Hall: Do we have a second? 8 00:01:34.790 --> 00:01:35.690 Community Hall: Second. 9 00:01:36.250 --> 00:01:38.740 Community Hall: Thank you. City Clerk, may we have a vote. 10 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:51.530 Community Hall: The motion carries unanimously. 11 00:01:51.980 --> 00:01:58.040 Community Hall: Thank you. Great. So we will then move on to oral communications. Do we have any oral communications? 12 00:02:01.340 --> 00:02:03.269 Community Hall: We have no speakers, Chair. 13 00:02:03.490 --> 00:02:12.460 Community Hall: Alright, thank you. Moving on. So, we will now move on to the study session on permit streamlining and simplification for small home upgrades. 14 00:02:12.600 --> 00:02:14.650 Community Hall: On the city work program. 15 00:02:14.780 --> 00:02:16.760 Community Hall: Do we have a staff report for this? 16 00:02:25.770 --> 00:02:26.530 Community Hall: Oh. 17 00:02:26.780 --> 00:02:45.099 Community Hall: There we go. Thank you. Now I can tell. I just wanted to do some quick introductions, because we have three new staff members here for this item tonight. So, as the chair noted, the item is focusing on the permitting process for small residential upgrades. I know there's been a lot of discussion in the past about permit streamlining. 18 00:02:45.100 --> 00:02:47.060 Community Hall: This is focused on just a really. 19 00:02:47.070 --> 00:02:51.750 Community Hall: particular aspect of that, of small residential projects. I believe this is a… 20 00:02:52.230 --> 00:02:59.249 Community Hall: Cwp. Item number 4. So this will be something that will ultimately going back to city council. 21 00:02:59.480 --> 00:03:19.060 Community Hall: To start the presentation tonight, we have planner Julie Garofalo, who had done a lot of the research on this, and she will be giving the presentation. And since this is very much focused on the building division's work, we have both Sean Hatch, who is the city's building official, and Fong De Vries, who is the deputy building official. 22 00:03:19.470 --> 00:03:28.700 Community Hall: And they should be able to answer probably all your questions about the building process. I don't want to give you too much of a build up, but anyhow, just wanted to get those introductions out of the way. 23 00:03:29.090 --> 00:03:34.259 Community Hall: And again, this is a study session item, so however you would like to give us information, that would be helpful. 24 00:03:34.490 --> 00:03:40.699 Community Hall: Thank you. And with that I'll turn it over to Jul Can you hear me? 25 00:03:41.350 --> 00:03:55.139 Community Hall: Good evening, City of Cupertino residents, members of the public, staff, and Planning and Zoning Commission officials. My name is Julia Garofalo, the Assistant Planner here at City of Cupertino, along with Fong Devries, the Deputy Building Official. 26 00:03:55.330 --> 00:04:13.629 Community Hall: our Chief Building Official, to present to you a review of the Community Development Department's assigned CityWork program priority goal efforts on permit streamlining and simplification for small home upgrades. Tonight's study session intends to review outreach findings, discuss current ongoing permit streamlining efforts, and review 27 00:04:13.630 --> 00:04:16.109 Community Hall: And receive direction on next steps. 28 00:04:19.269 --> 00:04:36.990 Community Hall: The City Work Program outlines major priorities for the upcoming two fiscal years and aligns staff efforts with the goals established by city leaders and, by extension, the community. This framework promotes transparency and accountability by directing resources towards initiatives that best serve community needs and priorities. 29 00:04:37.060 --> 00:04:42.759 Community Hall: The permit streamlining city work program goal of tonight's focus is identified as 30 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:53.430 Community Hall: Develop a suite of improvements to improve access to and speed the processing of permits for small home upgrades to enhance compliance and improve overall efficiency, improve 31 00:04:53.620 --> 00:05:09.660 Community Hall: turnaround times, set service level agreements for staff and outsource reviewers, set customer service, keep KPIs, create templates to reduce back and forth, and improve internal staff expertise to reduce consulting expenses. 32 00:05:10.960 --> 00:05:22.609 Community Hall: The types of projects considered small home upgrades includes additions of 250 square feet or less, kitchen and bathroom replacements for additions, relocation of appliances and fixtures. 33 00:05:22.610 --> 00:05:32.089 Community Hall: and equipment upgrades such as EV charging, heat pumps, furnace or water heaters, HVAC systems, and whole house or partial re- piping. 34 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:43.439 Community Hall: In March 2025, after a series of priority goal workshops, the City Council approved the fiscal year 25 to 27 City Work Program priority items. 35 00:05:43.600 --> 00:06:00.999 Community Hall: In fiscal year 25, community development staff began work on the division's city work program goal. In February this year, a benchmarking outreach survey was distributed to 12 local building officials, in which we received 6 responses on comparable building permit metrics. 36 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:04.070 Community Hall: Today, staff is ready to report on findings and progress. 37 00:06:06.010 --> 00:06:16.629 Community Hall: A benchmarking survey is a tool used to collect and compare data on processes, performance metrics, and practices across peer jurisdictions. This survey data has been included as attachment 1. 38 00:06:16.760 --> 00:06:32.170 Community Hall: The survey responses focused on several key areas, including permitting programs and metric reporting, turnaround times, comparing expected versus actual performance, permit and staffing volumes, review processes and business support features. 39 00:06:32.260 --> 00:06:47.449 Community Hall: response times for both applicants and staff, service level agreements and key performance indicators, and overall efficiency factors. This data is being used to evaluate how Cupertino compares with surrounding cities to help inform future decision making. 40 00:06:48.980 --> 00:07:08.159 Community Hall: A review of peer cities shows that all jurisdictions provide detailed checklists and handouts for small home remodel permits, while only one city publicly reports key performance indicators. Permitting system platforms vary, although three cities use Acela, and overall response times are generally consistent across agencies. 41 00:07:08.350 --> 00:07:23.040 Community Hall: Notably, Cupertino is processing a higher volume of permits with fewer staff compared to peer cities. Across jurisdictions, the most common cause of repeats to plan submittal includes incomplete applications and applicants unfamiliarity with code requirements. 42 00:07:23.110 --> 00:07:30.239 Community Hall: In terms of transparency, most cities, including Cupertino, have made permitting turnaround metrics publicly available. 43 00:07:30.750 --> 00:07:43.030 Community Hall: Finally, while many jurisdictions experienced a decline in small home remodel permits activity from FY23 and FY24, Cupertino saw an increase in permit submissions during that same period. 44 00:07:46.030 --> 00:08:03.500 Community Hall: Participant cities have been given an anonymous identifier for presentation purposes, as this benchmarking effort is designed to identify trends, best practices, and opportunities for improvement, rather than to evaluate and rank specific cities. Please note that the data may have limitations and should be interpreted with caution. 45 00:08:03.760 --> 00:08:14.770 Community Hall: Cupertino's actual average first round review for the building division is 13 days, while the actual average first round review amongst all divisions in Cupertino for building permits is 19 days. 46 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:29.229 Community Hall: This is a graph of the total residential building permit applications in Cupertino, which have increased by 48% from 2021 to 2025, reflecting sustained demand for home improvement projects. 47 00:08:30.780 --> 00:08:46.370 Community Hall: Cupertino's average building permit turnaround time in days by division from 21 to 25 is as follows. Building permit review requires coordinated input across multiple agencies, including building, planning, public works, Santa Clara County Fire, and Cupertino Sanitary District. 48 00:08:46.650 --> 00:08:59.530 Community Hall: Review timelines are influenced by coordination across multiple agencies and divisions to ensure proposed projects comply with the applicable codes and regulations and result in a safe and functional environment. 49 00:08:59.990 --> 00:09:09.590 Community Hall: The city tracks average review times by division, including the elapsed time when the task is with the applicant between review cycles, pending a response, and resubmittal. 50 00:09:09.670 --> 00:09:27.029 Community Hall: The building division also utilizes contract plan review consultants during peak periods to help maintain service levels. Overall, the reported metrics combine increasing permit values… volumes with average review timelines by division, providing context for evaluating system-wide performance. 51 00:09:28.930 --> 00:09:29.870 Community Hall: The current… 52 00:09:30.590 --> 00:09:43.959 Community Hall: Currently, the city offers several service features to support applicants, homeowners, and contractors when navigating the permitting process, which include over-the-counter, same-day plan review, the option to schedule pre-submittal meetings to help reduce review cycles. 53 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:48.290 Community Hall: The access to detailed checklists, handouts, and permitting system guides. 54 00:09:48.290 --> 00:10:06.569 Community Hall: Applicants can also take advantage of an electronic plan submittal and review, email notifications, and permit status tracking. In addition, the City provides walk-in counter services, maintains responsive and accessible staff, and utilizes a customer service accountability platform to help manage and track inquiries. 55 00:10:08.640 --> 00:10:20.880 Community Hall: The City is actively advancing permit streamlining through a combination of technology and process improvements, including exploring AI-supported pre-screening, a plan review, and plan review in coordination with IT. 56 00:10:20.920 --> 00:10:35.099 Community Hall: expanding staff training and the use of Microsoft Copilot to improve internal efficiency, and developing clear, standardized plan review checklists for all small home remodel permits to simplify submittal requirements and reduce review cycles. 57 00:10:35.400 --> 00:10:52.319 Community Hall: The building division continues to support the available service features of instant online permits for a range of common residential projects, with plans to expand this program to include additional minor projects like kitchen and bathroom remodels, HVAC changeouts, and heat pumps. 58 00:10:52.830 --> 00:11:00.149 Community Hall: Staff is also collaborating with IT to update the online permit portal to improve functionality and support. 59 00:11:00.220 --> 00:11:15.849 Community Hall: the submission of all permit types, and to implement e- check payment capabilities for permit fees. Finally, staff continues to monitor and respond to changes in state law, which can directly affect review timelines, application requirements, and the city's ongoing efforts to 60 00:11:16.050 --> 00:11:19.859 Community Hall: Streamline permit processing across all divisions. 61 00:11:20.400 --> 00:11:26.829 Community Hall: At last, that concludes the presentation. Staff requests the opportunity for discussion at this time. Thank you. 62 00:11:29.510 --> 00:11:35.349 Community Hall: Thank you very much, Julia, and welcome. And I'll bring this back to the Commission for any clarifying questions. 63 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:38.779 Community Hall: And… Yes, Commissioner Nolenskog 64 00:11:39.010 --> 00:11:54.210 Community Hall: So, did you speak to anybody who actually applies for permits, like residents or contractors, when you were in that one-year process where you were also gathering survey results from, 65 00:11:54.470 --> 00:11:57.450 Community Hall: From, you know, other cities. 66 00:12:00.380 --> 00:12:14.840 Community Hall: No, the direction was to reach out to our neighboring cities, and so that was the direction we followed. So yeah, no, we have not reached out to citizens or had outreach or that. Okay, so we don't actually know what the pain points are that we're trying to solve. 67 00:12:16.310 --> 00:12:19.400 Community Hall: I don't… I guess… Sort of. 68 00:12:19.810 --> 00:12:33.310 Community Hall: Yeah, I don't know what the… yeah, I'd like to know, I guess that's why we're here. Right. So, yeah, any feedback to what that is, knowing that most of you have gone through the permit process yourself, yeah, we'd love to hear it. Okay. Absolutely, yeah. Thank you. 69 00:12:34.210 --> 00:12:35.570 Community Hall: Any other questions. 70 00:12:35.690 --> 00:12:41.789 Community Hall: Commissioner Rao. Yeah, I was curious following up on that. That direction was from where? 71 00:12:43.640 --> 00:12:44.870 Community Hall: Our director. 72 00:12:45.140 --> 00:12:45.980 Community Hall: Okay. 73 00:12:46.300 --> 00:12:52.119 Community Hall: Yeah, it just seems like… The applicants would be a prime source of feedback, and 74 00:12:52.520 --> 00:12:58.540 Community Hall: I believe there's also a survey that the city conducts for planning permits and building permits. 75 00:12:59.020 --> 00:13:01.689 Community Hall: There is a survey on our website, yeah, that 76 00:13:01.930 --> 00:13:07.340 Community Hall: I rarely get anybody filling it out, right? So, yeah, there's avenues to do so. 77 00:13:07.460 --> 00:13:19.659 Community Hall: But I don't… I rarely get any, right? So, yeah, I would love the feedback, not scared of it. Yeah, I appreciate it, for sure. It'd be useful, right? It would be, very, yeah. I can say that I've had… 78 00:13:20.300 --> 00:13:33.329 Community Hall: residents that have been hesitant to provide feedback. Let's just leave it at that, because they feel like they might not pass the permits if they give feedback. So there's sorry I've completed there yet. 79 00:13:33.850 --> 00:13:37.440 Community Hall: The other question I have is, I'm curious why planning is not 80 00:13:38.090 --> 00:13:40.939 Community Hall: Is planning part of the simplification, or… 81 00:13:41.050 --> 00:13:48.179 Community Hall: Is it building only, or I guess I'm planning is a part of the process of reviewing building permits. And so this is 82 00:13:48.460 --> 00:13:51.229 Community Hall: Encompassed in that, review. 83 00:13:51.710 --> 00:13:58.490 Community Hall: So, the… The scope of the CWP item includes both simplification of planning. 84 00:13:58.630 --> 00:14:14.800 Community Hall: permits as well as building permits? This is just building permits. When people do remodels, and when they do small additions, they don't involve planning as a permit. They come in as a building permit. Yeah, if I could just… all of these would be ministerial items that would go through building. 85 00:14:15.050 --> 00:14:18.769 Community Hall: Building permits are still reviewed by other divisions, though. 86 00:14:19.220 --> 00:14:24.269 Community Hall: There's four divisions that make up community development. Planning, building, code enforcement, and housing. 87 00:14:24.430 --> 00:14:41.999 Community Hall: So planning does review building permits in addition to the discretionary planning permits. So the scope of this project includes review cycles within planning as well as building, is that right? The entire process, correct. Anybody who would be looking at a project that fit the description of a small home remodel. Okay, so the… 88 00:14:42.230 --> 00:14:45.019 Community Hall: presentation as well as the comments, I guess I'm… 89 00:14:45.180 --> 00:14:59.430 Community Hall: I'm wondering why building is fielding the questions. Are they fielding the questions on behalf of both planning and building? How should we… how should commissioners direct questions? Yes, building's here because this is really the process they're… they primarily oversee. 90 00:14:59.640 --> 00:15:07.410 Community Hall: Okay. These are building permits, after all. None of these are things that would come before this commission, for instance. So you do have planning review. 91 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:12.209 Community Hall: But building is the lead on that, which is why we wanted building here for their expertise. 92 00:15:14.040 --> 00:15:18.949 Community Hall: And is this, project now on the council calendar already or is there time to 93 00:15:19.010 --> 00:15:36.519 Community Hall: do another iteration to get applicant interest and feedback? There is not a definite council date. There was… expectation probably would have been late September or October to take it, but there's no hard date for that. Okay. And unlike the development projects you get, we don't have AB130 or anything to worry about here. Okay, great. Thank you. 94 00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:41.400 Community Hall: Any other questions? Yeah, sorry, I have one more. So, 95 00:15:42.110 --> 00:15:52.950 Community Hall: All in all, just reading this, this report is, it's, it's an incredibly disappointing report. It's so top level. There's so many just obvious questions here that are. 96 00:15:53.070 --> 00:15:55.269 Community Hall: Not addressed, like, you know. 97 00:15:55.670 --> 00:16:10.230 Community Hall: basically the most important constituent is the contractors and the residents, and no one spoke to them to find out what their pain points are, so we don't know what problems we're trying to solve, so I feel like that's a… 98 00:16:10.230 --> 00:16:14.020 Community Hall: That's a really big lack. You know, looking at… 99 00:16:14.020 --> 00:16:34.099 Community Hall: looking at the the increase. It's a pretty significant increase in the number of days that it takes on on all the departments. Right? So that's a pretty significant thing. So it would have been great to see a little bit more analysis on what caused those increases, whether it was 100 00:16:34.210 --> 00:16:52.910 Community Hall: you know, staff shortages, whether it was, you know, the types of permits shifted, you know, so there are some more time-intensive permits that are being asked, like, what is causing that? And just doing a little bit more of a deep dive would have been really helpful, because I feel like we're being asked to 101 00:16:52.910 --> 00:17:05.079 Community Hall: Provide feedback when we're not getting all the information we need to be able to give that feedback. You know, like, the other thing is, you know, we, we get these, this little paragraph of, 102 00:17:05.589 --> 00:17:13.580 Community Hall: Of, like, potential next steps, and one of the things it says is we're going to see if we can do more instant online permits. 103 00:17:13.690 --> 00:17:26.630 Community Hall: That's great, but how many, you know, like, of the instant permits, online permits that we have right now, what percentage of total permit applications do those represent? How much impact will it have? 104 00:17:26.630 --> 00:17:41.539 Community Hall: if we, like, what are the levers that we need to be shifting? We don't know that, because we don't have that information, right? So if 80% of the permits are currently, you know, online permits, and we shift, you know, another 5%, 105 00:17:41.580 --> 00:18:01.100 Community Hall: It's not going to move the needle for us, right? But if it's 40% and we're going to add another 20%, yeah, significant impact. So again, there's just not enough data here to make any kind of meaningful conclusions or make any kind of recommendations. And I can just keep going, you know, I mean, it's just like. 106 00:18:02.300 --> 00:18:18.950 Community Hall: like, how… what is the comparison of the types of permits that we have versus the other cities? You know, where are the pain points from… between us versus the other cities? Why are our numbers so much higher than other cities? Like, what's the… you know, what's causing that difference, and is that causing the increase? 107 00:18:19.350 --> 00:18:30.259 Community Hall: I don't know. How many people are not applying for permits because it's too complicated? Don't know, right? So, I reached out to… I recently got a new 108 00:18:30.550 --> 00:18:49.239 Community Hall: heat pump HVAC and a new heat pump water heater, and the company that installed my new heat pump water heater is one of the bigger ones in the Valley. So I reached out to them, and I asked them, you know, how much work do you do in Cupertino, and and what has been your experience? 109 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.120 Community Hall: And I will read you what they wrote back to me. 110 00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:55.159 Community Hall: They said… Through the chair, are we doing clarifying questions? 111 00:18:55.540 --> 00:19:02.430 Community Hall: Oh yeah, sorry, I can wait. Yes, we are on clarifying questions. I'll wait. Okay. Thank you for clarifying that, Chair. 112 00:19:03.030 --> 00:19:13.010 Community Hall: Do we have any other clarifying questions? Sorry to break your train. I did have some clarifying questions for staff trying to get a sense of. 113 00:19:13.310 --> 00:19:21.779 Community Hall: the ongoing streamlining projects that's in the staff report, is that considered a part of the CWP, or is that just coincidental that 114 00:19:22.360 --> 00:19:30.609 Community Hall: IT is sort of doing these things, and these are other projects that are just ongoing activity. How much of that is actually CWP related? 115 00:19:30.930 --> 00:19:32.419 Community Hall: Or it may not be at all. 116 00:19:33.190 --> 00:19:34.150 Community Hall: So. 117 00:19:34.220 --> 00:19:41.710 Community Hall: Most of the streamline for, like, kitchen remodel, bathroom remodel, and heat pumps, I think 118 00:19:41.730 --> 00:19:58.910 Community Hall: this was on our path of getting it to streamline, because both Sean and I do recognize the feedback that we get from the applicant and neighboring cities. Even we didn't… even though we didn't go out with an official surveying, but, you know, through our 119 00:19:58.910 --> 00:20:06.839 Community Hall: experience that we've seen, like, hey, these can help out. And the reason why we didn't have that before is because we don't have the technology 120 00:20:06.840 --> 00:20:24.609 Community Hall: to kind of support that, and as with technologies come, with AI comes, I think that gives us basically the leverage to be able to provide these more instant services, whereas we didn't have that before. And then with the… with the work-study program, it basically… 121 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:43.819 Community Hall: you know, light the fire under us to move it faster, right? And so I think that's why both Sean and I had no issues of moving things and helping out resident and moving project along, and I think whether it's, like, you know, with your comment in terms of did we get feedback from the residents and other contractor, I think 122 00:20:43.820 --> 00:21:07.680 Community Hall: The direction wasn't given to us in that sense when we were trying to prep the survey, right? It was, as Sean mentioned, it was giving the direction that, hey, let's survey out there to see what other cities are doing and are we meeting up to those city expectation? And based on the report that we got back is that, yeah, we met with the expectation and at some point even more. 123 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:14.439 Community Hall: But with your feedback, obviously today, it's like, yes, let's go out, do a survey to see what is our pain point. 124 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:29.120 Community Hall: how can we help these residents, right, get their project moving along? I mean, we all understand we own homes and want projects to move along as quickly as possible, right? And so, without understanding that part, I think that's where… 125 00:21:29.120 --> 00:21:46.000 Community Hall: this is why we're, like, this year was our year of, like, pushing AI, pushing projects to streamline the process a lot more. So I think next year you're gonna see that changes in, in, at least in the building, permitting, side of things. Thank you. I did have a follow-up on the 126 00:21:46.290 --> 00:21:48.850 Community Hall: Direction, or lack thereof, perhaps. 127 00:21:50.220 --> 00:22:02.669 Community Hall: Is it helpful to staff to bring this to Planning Commission multiple times? I know we do projects like ODS, where we have come in a few times, and is that gonna actually help to avoid. 128 00:22:03.710 --> 00:22:06.410 Community Hall: Sort of feedback, like, what we are… 129 00:22:06.830 --> 00:22:11.280 Community Hall: Maybe you see… we'd love to make sure that staff time is spent. 130 00:22:11.470 --> 00:22:26.230 Community Hall: in a way that is not wasted and at the same time it's, it's meeting everybody's expectations. So just wondering if it helps to come in a few times and everybody's happy with the direction it's going. 131 00:22:26.520 --> 00:22:30.429 Community Hall: You know, I probably wouldn't always say yes to that question, but this time I would. 132 00:22:31.290 --> 00:22:35.120 Community Hall: I think, for the reasons identified, is that… 133 00:22:36.150 --> 00:22:43.879 Community Hall: Out of the gate, this is lacking things you wanted to see, so it's gonna limit what you can say tonight. I think you can still provide comments. 134 00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:45.730 Community Hall: But I think… 135 00:22:46.690 --> 00:22:52.099 Community Hall: Given that it's not where you'd like it to be, this kind of reminds me of a meeting on the oversized vehicles. 136 00:22:52.390 --> 00:22:55.270 Community Hall: Where… 137 00:22:55.890 --> 00:23:04.760 Community Hall: the first draft wasn't far enough along to get meaningful insight, so it needed to come back. And because this doesn't have a time restriction. 138 00:23:05.090 --> 00:23:10.720 Community Hall: I don't see why this could not come back to you, and my experience with the City Council is they want 139 00:23:10.950 --> 00:23:13.320 Community Hall: full planning commission review. 140 00:23:13.820 --> 00:23:15.519 Community Hall: Before they're considering it. 141 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:17.509 Community Hall: So, my answer is yes. 142 00:23:17.860 --> 00:23:25.619 Community Hall: And so, I know you haven't solicited feedback from applicants, but has anyone volunteered feedback, formally or informally? 143 00:23:25.810 --> 00:23:30.470 Community Hall: To staff on feedback that could have been included or is available. 144 00:23:31.890 --> 00:23:43.120 Community Hall: Yeah, I mean, no, we, I mean, right, we're, we're here every day and meet with everybody and happy to do it, right? We've got a great crew, so yeah, we, we always hear about it, right? I mean, yeah, I'm sure some people. 145 00:23:43.180 --> 00:24:02.210 Community Hall: the permitting and the government being scared that, oh, if I say something, I'm not going to get my permit. I mean, none of us down there that way, so we never give off that persona. So, I don't think we're a space that people aren't comfortable coming and talking to us. So, yeah, we hear about it all the time, and I think that's what sparks the thing that, that 146 00:24:02.210 --> 00:24:10.489 Community Hall: We're always working on it to make it better, right? We know the pinpoints, I mean, that we hear the most is, like, our portal is terrible. Acela's portal is brutal 147 00:24:10.490 --> 00:24:29.679 Community Hall: And so, they're working on it, and also IT is… we're working on doing a wrapper to make it easier and more user-friendly. We know that's a pinpoint, right? And so, that's why we still offer the, you know, we'll pick up the phone and schedule the inspection for you, because we know it's not friendly, right? And so, that's been an ongoing thing, just having those resources to do it, right? So… 148 00:24:29.760 --> 00:24:40.890 Community Hall: There's that, I mean, but for the most part, it's pretty systematic, right? What… what we find, I mean, not that I'm going off on a tangent, but it's, like, kind of what we find, like, this… this happened last week, where 149 00:24:40.890 --> 00:24:53.269 Community Hall: from a council member, somebody reached out and said, hey, I can't get my permit, so, you know, who do I talk to? So, I look into it and go, oh, what's going on here? And it's… it's… it's been through 5 rounds of plan reviews, just for a 150 00:24:53.270 --> 00:25:05.919 Community Hall: But the designer cannot answer the comment from sanitary, and it's gone 3 separate rounds, right? But instead of the… and I'm not pointing fingers, but instead of saying, oh, it's me, I don't understand it, it's, 151 00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:19.880 Community Hall: the city, right? Which I get, I'm in this environment, and I've been doing this a long time, but that kind of happens quite a bit, you know? So it's, you know, the message is, it's so important to hire a good person to do your design. 152 00:25:19.900 --> 00:25:23.210 Community Hall: And also a good one to build it, right? But that's easy to say, I know 153 00:25:23.470 --> 00:25:27.790 Community Hall: it's hard to find, good people, right? So… Thank you, Chair. 154 00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:34.970 Community Hall: so I'm in the middle of a remodel, not a minor one. 155 00:25:35.610 --> 00:25:42.729 Community Hall: And… all the problems with permitting were the contractor's fault, not the city's, I'll say that. 156 00:25:43.080 --> 00:25:44.640 Community Hall: I'm sure he's not listening. 157 00:25:46.300 --> 00:25:51.160 Community Hall: But, I mean, one thing… In Cupertino, we've… 158 00:25:51.460 --> 00:26:00.440 Community Hall: There should be a checklist that says, oh, most cities in Santa Clara County are like this, but Cupertino has these special things, like… 159 00:26:00.760 --> 00:26:06.980 Community Hall: The bird-safe windows, and… Even something as… 160 00:26:07.310 --> 00:26:12.420 Community Hall: Small is… he got in trouble because he… He leased a… 161 00:26:13.110 --> 00:26:19.929 Community Hall: bin for all the trash, and he didn't lease it from Recology, and apparently that's required in Cupertino, but he didn't know. 162 00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:25.030 Community Hall: So we… so something in the checklist should have you know. 163 00:26:25.150 --> 00:26:29.480 Community Hall: Those little differences between Cupertino and, you know, maybe… 164 00:26:29.650 --> 00:26:32.470 Community Hall: the San Jose or surrounding cities. 165 00:26:33.070 --> 00:26:35.429 Community Hall: I could go on for an hour about 166 00:26:35.460 --> 00:26:43.050 Community Hall: my remodel. But I won't, because this is clarifying questions. Thank you. Do we have any other clarifying questions, Commissioner Fung. 167 00:26:43.050 --> 00:27:02.070 Community Hall: All right, I had a few. I think my first is going back to kind of the scope of this item. So it's interesting to me, the scope of the item is, I'm going to go back and read it, is permit streamlining and simplification for small home upgrades. But when I look in the survey, there's actually questions around. 168 00:27:03.270 --> 00:27:19.860 Community Hall: are there cycles for… to help review… reduce review cycles for small businesses or commercial business permits? And are expedited review options available for, again, small business or commercial business? So, I guess I want to clarify, is this… 169 00:27:20.030 --> 00:27:26.990 Community Hall: is the scope of this CWP item flexible? Does it… are we also talking businesses, or are we just talking residential? 170 00:27:27.540 --> 00:27:40.450 Community Hall: I can try to answer that. I think we had collaborated a little bit with the Economic Development Department and through those questions and just to kind of help them get some data, but that does not pertain to this CWP item. 171 00:27:40.570 --> 00:27:52.650 Community Hall: Got it, thank you. I was also curious about, in the staff report, and thank you, I think this is a really important item, and I know it's, you know, sort of difficult to tackle, but I do think it's important that we discuss all this. 172 00:27:52.840 --> 00:27:56.920 Community Hall: There was an interesting so the chart around the the staffing. 173 00:27:56.980 --> 00:28:03.570 Community Hall: So, I see that we have consultant support. Is there an amount of headcount for that? 174 00:28:03.570 --> 00:28:18.369 Community Hall: Or is it, you know, is there a number of hours? It's just sort of hard to understand what that means. I'll let Building answer that. Planning does not have any consultant support, but I will let Building answer for what support they have for building permit review for building-related items. 175 00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:26.009 Community Hall: So, currently, we have, 2 contracts with 4 consultants, and with that, we don't… 176 00:28:26.010 --> 00:28:49.760 Community Hall: like require a certain number of staffing from the consultant is basically on project base. So how many project we sends to them. And the reason why we have the consultant is for the influx of building permits we get, right, receive. So we would assign to them when we have a high volume of permit where our staff is unable to meet that deadlines, right? 177 00:28:49.760 --> 00:29:09.310 Community Hall: And, you know, later on we'll break down for you in terms of, you know, type of projects we sent out to the consultant, type of project we receive. And so that way give you a better idea of, you know, what type of projects we keep and the turnaround time in regards to that and the number of projects we receive as well. 178 00:29:09.550 --> 00:29:18.950 Community Hall: But a very low percentage of overall projects are we sending to the consultants, right? It's less than 10% of what we have coming in, most of it. 179 00:29:19.090 --> 00:29:29.010 Community Hall: Yeah, we want to keep it in-house, right? And so, the basic kind of just fee, so that you know, too, is the consultants and their contract, they take 65% of our plan check fee. 180 00:29:29.150 --> 00:29:37.479 Community Hall: to do the review, so then we keep 35 for the processing and whatnot. But we try to, like I said, keep that in-house as much as we can, so… 181 00:29:37.770 --> 00:29:57.100 Community Hall: Well, that's very impressive, then, that you manage, you know, multiples the amount of permits with your 2 staff on average, how many people does a small home upgrade go through from start to finish? Is it just the the 2 reviewers, or within the city of Cupertino? I mean. 182 00:29:57.610 --> 00:30:08.050 Community Hall: Yeah, I would say your typical remodel, is gonna be building and sanitary. If it's strictly remodel, if they're doing windows and such, obviously then our friends in the planning division 183 00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:20.139 Community Hall: have a look. It's rare that a remodel or a small addition, you know, triggers, the fire department or public works, would be the other ones. But, so yeah, it's, you know, two or three that look at it, so… 184 00:30:20.930 --> 00:30:25.770 Community Hall: Not bad. Yeah, we got a pretty good little over-the- counter kind of process. The unfortunate thing 185 00:30:26.150 --> 00:30:31.200 Community Hall: I guess, is that Cupertino Sanitary is its own district, and so they're not here at the city. 186 00:30:31.390 --> 00:30:48.710 Community Hall: So that poses, you know, a problem that they're at a different location, but we've worked out with them. When they come here, they get their permit number and all that, and then they head over there, and they'll usually kind of work it and send us over an approval so that we can get it out the door the same day. Some people don't want to do that and just wait, but… 187 00:30:49.150 --> 00:30:53.739 Community Hall: if you want your permit that day, you'll go run around, you know, they're just behind Panera. 188 00:30:54.050 --> 00:31:09.490 Community Hall: So it's not far away. And just to, like, you know, Julia was mentioning in the presentation with, the graph that you've seen in terms of turnaround time for each department, that report we pull out of Project Docs, which is our plan review, system. 189 00:31:09.490 --> 00:31:26.729 Community Hall: In that system, unfortunately, we can't separate out, like, the type of permit, so this is collectively for all residential, which includes basic remodel to new, single-family, so that's why we… we kind of put the disclaimer to say that it… it doesn't ref… 190 00:31:26.800 --> 00:31:41.800 Community Hall: Yeah, yeah, it's not just specifically for small remodel. If, you know, Commissioner really wants to, we can ask our, you know, developer to see if they can help us break that down, just so that it gives you a better sense of what it is. 191 00:31:41.800 --> 00:31:53.289 Community Hall: But usually like for kitchen bathroom remodel with the middle is five day turnaround and we get that out pretty quick. Heat pump, water heater, ACs, that's two days for us. 192 00:31:53.290 --> 00:32:02.110 Community Hall: PV is the same thing as well. And so most of these smaller projects, we do get out like really quickly. And unfortunately, we. 193 00:32:02.150 --> 00:32:19.720 Community Hall: Not unfortunately. We do provide services over the counter, but with the… ever since COVID, as you know, most people prefer just emailing us, which makes them go through the standard process, right? If they were to show up at the counter, they would get review and issue or feedback the same day. But… 194 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:27.699 Community Hall: For some weird reason, we haven't received that high volume of people wanting to come at the counter. And so that's the… 195 00:32:27.990 --> 00:32:48.539 Community Hall: The kind of situation that we're in at the moment. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. That would actually be helpful information to have because when I look at this, I actually get the opposite impression. It says, you know, first round review 19 days. And then, you know, on the graph it says it looks like the numbers somewhere around 27 or 28. So it's actually really interesting to know that there's a two day turnaround on some. 196 00:32:48.540 --> 00:32:50.700 Community Hall: Okay, thank you. Any other questions? 197 00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:54.460 Community Hall: Actually, I would have… so, so… 198 00:32:54.750 --> 00:33:04.909 Community Hall: The correct interpretation of the graph really is that you know the the larger numbers that you're seeing here for permit that that's including new home construction, things like that. So that's really what's driving that. 199 00:33:05.140 --> 00:33:11.759 Community Hall: Great. I would actually, maybe I can also pick this up in the follow-up comments, but 200 00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:16.969 Community Hall: I would also suggest, perhaps, if you have a breakdown of the kinds of 201 00:33:17.210 --> 00:33:23.349 Community Hall: The kinds of common jobs. I realize you don't pick the work that comes to you. 202 00:33:23.570 --> 00:33:27.710 Community Hall: But at the same time, it's interesting for me, you know. 203 00:33:27.940 --> 00:33:33.890 Community Hall: Commissioner Linscott said she got a heat pump, right? And that must be very common now. 204 00:33:34.060 --> 00:33:52.949 Community Hall: So you know, I think that having those sorts of breakdowns are interesting. Maybe we're past the time when people are getting ev chargers or photovoltaic systems really commonly. But I think just understanding those kind of categories are actually pretty interesting versus somebody who's having a kitchen remodel. 205 00:33:53.110 --> 00:34:03.449 Community Hall: I think it would be useful, to understand the scope of what's going on, and in particular, I think, you know, when you're talking about something like, if somebody's getting, 206 00:34:03.540 --> 00:34:13.560 Community Hall: you know, batteries for their solar. You know that that's probably extremely, you know. I'm sure that's very much a you know. You have a recipe for getting that through. So 207 00:34:13.790 --> 00:34:14.990 Community Hall: Great. Thank you. 208 00:34:16.270 --> 00:34:24.249 Community Hall: Commissioner Wiscott, yes. Yeah, just a quick question. So, are you able to provide the information in terms of how much of, like. 209 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:32.409 Community Hall: Roughly what percentage of the permits are, you know, instant online versus, you know, more, you know, hands-on? 210 00:34:33.659 --> 00:34:43.450 Community Hall: We can provide you with that report to follow up at the moment. I we can't call that number off the top of our head, but we can definitely provide you with that breakdown. Yeah, okay, thank you. 211 00:34:44.739 --> 00:34:51.379 Community Hall: Any other clarifying questions? Yeah, I did have some questions. So, in the process that we currently follow, so we have to go through 212 00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:57.649 Community Hall: Planning review before building sees the permits, is that correct? Or… 213 00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:09.530 Community Hall: Is that a sequential process? Is that a way to parallelize the process? Is it all de-parallel? I can answer that. So it depends on the kind of, work you're doing. If you are looking to build a balcony, for example. 214 00:35:09.530 --> 00:35:28.319 Community Hall: That does require a planning permit. So that's not part of a home remodel, right? The scope of what we're looking at tonight. To the extent that these home remodel permits are concerned, those are parallel. They happen once building routes it, it routes it to all divisions and departments at the same time, and that's when that review occurs concurrently. 215 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:32.340 Community Hall: So, is there a list of items that are out of the scope of 216 00:35:32.640 --> 00:35:35.720 Community Hall: the CWP, because it is considered not a 217 00:35:35.910 --> 00:35:57.430 Community Hall: simple or a minor home remodel? This is focused on small remodels, streamlining small remodel permits. Understood, but is there a list of what would be out of that scope for the benefit of the public or the commissioner's review? I believe it was described in the presentation, which was additions up to… Could we put up that slide if someone has that slide handy, if it is in the presentation? 218 00:36:00.740 --> 00:36:01.470 Community Hall: Oh. 219 00:36:10.990 --> 00:36:15.970 Community Hall: Thank you. So… On this list, just staying on the slide for a second. 220 00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:23.339 Community Hall: Is there a view of how we compare on over-the-counter permits for these items? 221 00:36:23.580 --> 00:36:27.699 Community Hall: Specifically things like HVAC and heat pump installation, and… 222 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:31.559 Community Hall: I don't know if home window replacement is part of this or not. 223 00:36:32.190 --> 00:36:40.500 Community Hall: I'm gonna let Fang answer that. I mean, at this point, she doesn't have the data she mentioned, but we… I think that is data we could probably get. 224 00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:48.699 Community Hall: Yeah, we can definitely get you the numbers, for each of these type of permits. So the question, just to be clear, is 225 00:36:49.050 --> 00:36:59.180 Community Hall: how do we fare competitively to the other cities on the over the counter permits for these categories? And if you could keep the slide up, please, if it's possible. 226 00:37:00.260 --> 00:37:04.220 Community Hall: And, and so on that slide, once again, is 227 00:37:05.200 --> 00:37:08.740 Community Hall: Window replacement, considered a small home remodel. 228 00:37:09.630 --> 00:37:13.739 Community Hall: Yeah, window replacement is considered part of small home remodel. 229 00:37:13.970 --> 00:37:22.399 Community Hall: And is that an over-the-counter permit today, or… It can be over-the-counter, today as well, yep. Okay, because I had a resident 230 00:37:22.720 --> 00:37:27.220 Community Hall: That, told me that they applied for a window replacement and 231 00:37:27.550 --> 00:37:30.699 Community Hall: The permit feedback said their fence was 12 feet. 232 00:37:31.170 --> 00:37:35.279 Community Hall: And I don't know what's the correlation between window replacement and fence height. 233 00:37:35.410 --> 00:37:38.940 Community Hall: And he thinks his fence is not 12 feet, so… 234 00:37:39.170 --> 00:37:48.580 Community Hall: I can understand 7 feet being 8 feet, but I don't know how a fence goes from 7 to 12 feet in the resident's view versus the reviewer's view. 235 00:37:49.350 --> 00:37:50.410 Community Hall: I mean, that's… 236 00:37:50.470 --> 00:38:07.890 Community Hall: that's not a building, requirement? I can try to answer. I mean, to the extent that residents do show, you know, improvements on their plans, and those are… do not meet the code, we will identify those and let them know, hey, you know, you have an unpermitted addition, or you have a shed that doesn't meet setbacks. 237 00:38:07.890 --> 00:38:18.949 Community Hall: things like that. We do identify that through the review process, and that is when… otherwise, we would never know. There's a 12- foot fence, but in terms of, you know, what that… 238 00:38:18.950 --> 00:38:19.630 Community Hall: Up. 239 00:38:19.700 --> 00:38:33.740 Community Hall: pertains to the permit itself, the window replacement itself, maybe not, but there is an unpermitted addition or structure on their property. So if it is just a window replacement, not additional work as a part of that, but just the window replacement. 240 00:38:33.890 --> 00:38:37.779 Community Hall: So planning would still be looking at… For bird safety, yes. 241 00:38:38.720 --> 00:38:55.340 Community Hall: So you'd be looking at all aspects of the home besides the window replacement? We would look at the window replacement itself for bird safety, but to the extent that something is indicated on the plans, or is just apparent, you know, when you pull up something, that's when we would comment on it, yes. 242 00:38:56.450 --> 00:39:05.120 Community Hall: And is this something that is seen as an area of simplification? Because the restaurant is now terrified to replace his windows. He's like, first of all, I don't have a 12-foot fence, I 243 00:39:05.310 --> 00:39:10.500 Community Hall: A 7-foot fence. Secondly, this is a neighbor Fence that has existed forever. 244 00:39:10.670 --> 00:39:16.799 Community Hall: So, just throwing out an anecdote, but the meta point being, I guess, he's now concerned about 245 00:39:17.050 --> 00:39:19.349 Community Hall: ever being able to replace Windows, I guess. 246 00:39:19.560 --> 00:39:26.760 Community Hall: Well, I mean, to the extent that, you know, the residents don't want us to identify any code enforcement, you know, like, unpermitted things. 247 00:39:26.930 --> 00:39:31.210 Community Hall: Sure, I mean, if that's the direction that we receive, we will not be looking at anything else. 248 00:39:31.810 --> 00:39:34.659 Community Hall: Yeah, I think the question is at what point. 249 00:39:35.420 --> 00:39:42.390 Community Hall: Are these sort of focused on the item being applied for? For example, if they applied for a HVAC replacement. 250 00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:46.130 Community Hall: Would that end up in a inspection of all? 251 00:39:46.290 --> 00:39:52.459 Community Hall: Aspects of his property for other violations, potentially, or… Not unless it's, you know… 252 00:39:52.610 --> 00:39:59.419 Community Hall: indicated on the plans. Like, you know, you have a thousand square foot home, and you're replacing an HVAC, but, you know, now you're showing 253 00:39:59.740 --> 00:40:08.109 Community Hall: on your permits. Do you have a 3,000 square foot home as an example? It's a terrible exaggeration, but if that were to occur we would possibly flag it. 254 00:40:08.790 --> 00:40:15.999 Community Hall: And so on this point, particularly, is the window replacement or HVAC replacement over-the-counter permits today? 255 00:40:16.870 --> 00:40:28.909 Community Hall: Yes, they are. Okay. So, I mean, this sounds like a one- off. I mean, I'd love to know the address. I'm happy to look into it, or you can tell them, come see Sean, right? I'm happy to look into that, because, yeah, that seems very… 256 00:40:29.100 --> 00:40:34.909 Community Hall: Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. Well, I'd actually like to follow up on that. So, in the process of 257 00:40:34.910 --> 00:40:52.049 Community Hall: I think it's fine to flag when things are not conformant, but especially if a resident was not planning on making a change elsewhere and, you know, nothing… and it's not unsafe. I guess the question would be if… if staff notices something that's not conforming, does the resident 258 00:40:52.200 --> 00:40:57.230 Community Hall: Have to immediately change it, especially if it's not a health and safety hazard, or is there a leeway? 259 00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:12.109 Community Hall: I'll let Sean answer that. Right, yeah, I mean, it's kind of an open question. We don't go there looking for this stuff, right? But if it's something gross, or, you know, grossly out of code, I mean, the code changes every 3 years, right? So… 260 00:41:12.110 --> 00:41:21.820 Community Hall: You're gonna go to homes all the time with stuff that's like, that's not code compliant, but you know, it was permitted that way. So that's the key, it's like, if we can see that this was done 261 00:41:22.020 --> 00:41:40.689 Community Hall: then that's when it's going to be flagged, right? But, you know, I get that concern a lot. Like, on Thursday, I'm going to the neighborhood block leader meeting, too, and, right, I've gone… this will be my second time, and that's always… if you come to my house, are you going to find all the other stuff? And it's like, that's not what I, you know, direct our inspectors to do by any 262 00:41:40.690 --> 00:41:45.739 Community Hall: We want to make sure your water heater's installed correctly, your furniture, mini-split, you know 263 00:41:45.740 --> 00:41:54.929 Community Hall: But yeah, if they come to your property, and I mean, you know, it's just the integrity of the job, that if you see something that clearly was done without permits, it's gonna be brought up. 264 00:41:55.250 --> 00:42:04.019 Community Hall: Right? That's the direction that's… I've always been provided and kind of gone with, right? So, yeah, I mean, if that was something Council wanted to… 265 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:12.800 Community Hall: The Commission wanted to recommend, that's, you know, code enforcement's a huge part of what we do, right? It is a time- consuming 266 00:42:13.200 --> 00:42:14.910 Community Hall: Function, so… 267 00:42:15.080 --> 00:42:25.209 Community Hall: But an important one, too, you know, in some aspects. But yeah, fence. Is a fence gonna hurt anybody? No, probably not, right? Well, how much time would you say that you spend on… 268 00:42:25.210 --> 00:42:38.999 Community Hall: tangential discoveries unrelated to the thing at hand? We are reactive, not proactive, so we don't drive around, we don't do it. The only reason I come for unpermitted stuff is because somebody 269 00:42:39.270 --> 00:42:46.129 Community Hall: Right, no, I'm not saying that you're going after… I'm saying, you know, in your workday, how much of your time actually 270 00:42:46.190 --> 00:43:09.500 Community Hall: intentionally or not gets spent on this type of thing. Is it it doesn't happen very often or it does? No, it doesn't happen very often. Our inspectors usually go out there and unless it like bluntly violate the code, then, you know, just a glimpse of it, you can kind of tell. But they don't just walk around the premises trying to find, you know, unpermitted works. Okay, thank you. 271 00:43:10.040 --> 00:43:10.820 Community Hall: Yes. 272 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:13.830 Community Hall: So I think I think 273 00:43:14.260 --> 00:43:26.139 Community Hall: Commissioner Rao and Commissioner Kristolcher raise a really good point, because I've had a similar experience. You know, it's like, many, many, many years ago, I called in for a permit for a bathroom fan. 274 00:43:26.380 --> 00:43:36.229 Community Hall: Actually, I think I came in person. I came in person to get a bathroom fan, permit, and the person I spoke to, and I don't remember who he was, very nice person. 275 00:43:36.330 --> 00:44:00.949 Community Hall: said, "Well, how old is your shower? Is it a low-flow shower? And what about your toilet? Is it a low-flow toilet? And you really need to replace those as well." And I was like, "Okay, I am leaving now." And I walked away because I wasn't ready to sign up for a $20,000 remodel. So I never did get that bathroom feed sink fan, and I'm admitting it now in public. 276 00:44:01.040 --> 00:44:14.510 Community Hall: So, you know, and I'm sure they meant well, but, you know, that project creep there is definitely something to kind of think about. 277 00:44:15.680 --> 00:44:30.359 Community Hall: I can respond to that real quick. I mean, so the message I give to staff, right, is, please don't do that. And the message is, if you don't touch it, we're not going to make you update it, right? Like I said, the code's updated every 3 years, so it's, you know… but I… 278 00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:40.860 Community Hall: at least under my realm, yeah, if this is within the last 15 years, I'd like to know… oh, geez. Okay, anyway, so yeah, no, I… that is not the MO, right? So… 279 00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:42.900 Community Hall: Yeah, I had a… 280 00:44:43.610 --> 00:44:51.139 Community Hall: Go ahead, Vice Cheshire. You can go first. No. I I appreciate that. I ran in, I said, do we have to 281 00:44:51.470 --> 00:45:10.689 Community Hall: replace all the toilets in the house when we remodeled one bathroom and put in the low-flow toilet, I don't know, is the inspector gonna come and say, no, these are 1.6 gallons, and now the rule is 1.2 gallons, you have to change everything? And I said, I don't think we have to do that. We didn't, you know, we didn't touch those, and… 282 00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:16.370 Community Hall: But the contractor really doesn't know. They would probably like to sell you everything. 283 00:45:16.490 --> 00:45:19.950 Community Hall: So I think it's important for that to be clear to 284 00:45:20.160 --> 00:45:31.150 Community Hall: people as only the things you're touching. And I don't… yeah, it seems odd about the fan. If you're only putting in a fan, why would you have to change the toilet and the shower head? 285 00:45:33.260 --> 00:45:34.210 Community Hall: Anyway. 286 00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:38.260 Community Hall: Commissioner Rao. Yeah, thank you, Chair. So there's, 287 00:45:39.170 --> 00:45:45.110 Community Hall: Is there… are there any metrics around if you did the first round of review comments? 288 00:45:45.510 --> 00:45:47.590 Community Hall: But then it came back for review again. 289 00:45:48.160 --> 00:46:02.180 Community Hall: Are the subsequent set of review comments a follow-up on comments already given, or are we going into a new cycle of review comments, where you go from, you know, here's the first round, and the second round's a totally new set, and the third round's a different set? 290 00:46:02.370 --> 00:46:04.899 Community Hall: Or are there incidents where that has happened? 291 00:46:06.420 --> 00:46:26.199 Community Hall: I've been doing this a long time, and that is a pet peeve, right? You get one shot at this, and so that's the comma, so we don't come up with new ones. The only time that would happen is the plans change during the plan review, right? That happens all the time. Oh, the owner wanted to add this, or I'm doing this, and then it might trigger a new comment that way, but at least myself. 292 00:46:26.230 --> 00:46:30.449 Community Hall: Fong and the two other PlanCheck engineers we have, no, that is not… 293 00:46:30.940 --> 00:46:39.229 Community Hall: not the plan. So, yeah, if I hear otherwise, I would love to know that. And does the system provide you metrics, or… 294 00:46:39.450 --> 00:46:42.890 Community Hall: Or alerts when that happens, is there a way to track that? 295 00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:55.000 Community Hall: Okay. No, yeah, it doesn't. We, we generate a plan check correction letter, and it's uploaded into a folder, so it's not like it's, you know what I mean, integrated into the system. 296 00:46:55.340 --> 00:47:02.530 Community Hall: Yeah, that would take some doing. Does the, does the metrics that you collect provide you feedback on the. 297 00:47:03.320 --> 00:47:06.969 Community Hall: On the experience with different reviewers. 298 00:47:07.120 --> 00:47:12.969 Community Hall: Sometimes the feedback we get from residents varies widely based on who they're working with, and 299 00:47:13.250 --> 00:47:17.670 Community Hall: So just curious if there's any way that the system gives you feedback 300 00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:24.430 Community Hall: That allows, department directors to look at the data and make corrective adjustments on 301 00:47:24.710 --> 00:47:30.519 Community Hall: What could we learn from a very positive experience versus something that could be better? 302 00:47:31.340 --> 00:47:40.689 Community Hall: certainly open to that. We don't… we don't have… I mean, do we hear about this? Yeah, just in the nature that we're code enforcement. People don't like being told what to do. 303 00:47:40.820 --> 00:47:49.840 Community Hall: So, you know, I hate that most people don't like me, and that's okay, just because that's what I do. I signed up for it, right? So I would be hesitant in that. 304 00:47:49.960 --> 00:48:08.760 Community Hall: Because, yeah, I mean, do we hear about the plan reviewers? They're too restrictive, you know, they're too detailed. Yeah, we do. And then we always talk about it and kind of explain and get away from that, right? We want to just get the big ticket items. I can't get everything in the code on a set of plans. But then on the flip side, what you hear out in the field is, well, it wasn't on the plans. 305 00:48:08.970 --> 00:48:22.800 Community Hall: well, okay, where do I stop and begin, right? So it's kind of a fine line. But yeah, I mean, you know, there is, like, again, the survey where people do… I just rarely get a survey filled out, and I think it's the fear, right? And I don't know why, I don't think I'd come 306 00:48:22.900 --> 00:48:30.649 Community Hall: I believe one of the concerns I heard from residents was that the survey includes the permit number, which makes the survey non- anonymous. 307 00:48:30.990 --> 00:48:36.919 Community Hall: And so it would be good if the survey can be fixed to not require that, and that way people feel comfortable leaving feedback. 308 00:48:38.350 --> 00:48:56.729 Community Hall: Excuse me, Chair. I mean, this is really good discussion. I appreciate all the questions back and forth, but it sounds like we're moving beyond questions of presentation, so maybe it's a good time for public comment. Yep, I was going to actually break for that pretty soon, so why don't we go ahead and do that then? City Clerk, do we have any public comments? 309 00:48:57.750 --> 00:49:01.190 Community Hall: We have no speakers in person, and no hands raised on Zoom. 310 00:49:02.070 --> 00:49:07.749 Community Hall: All right, well, moving right back, are we, are there any other clarifying questions? 311 00:49:09.220 --> 00:49:19.859 Community Hall: Actually, I so I in trying to look at the way you do improvements. And you know, given the the kind of tenor of the discussion we've had. I'm curious. 312 00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:32.970 Community Hall: I think it would be great to report on how you get… how you encourage uniformity among your… among your staff. It's a little bit the opposite of, you know, did somebody have a good experience or a bad experience because somebody happens to be picky? 313 00:49:32.970 --> 00:49:45.489 Community Hall: It's more… and I think you actually almost addressed that a little bit when you said, you know, if somebody had raised this thing, you know, we'll have a discussion about that. And I think that that's actually an important part of that. 314 00:49:45.500 --> 00:49:51.070 Community Hall: You know, I think a, a goal, a good goal. 315 00:49:51.110 --> 00:49:55.250 Community Hall: For this kind of review is that it doesn't matter who 316 00:49:55.280 --> 00:50:07.149 Community Hall: you know, who you got when you, when you got the desk, when, you know, when you hit the desk, or when they read the email, that you got a good consistent, a consistent objective. And I would say those are the kinds of things where. 317 00:50:07.150 --> 00:50:15.989 Community Hall: you know, in terms of your your measurable objectives. You know, I think that's actually a that would actually be a good one. 318 00:50:16.670 --> 00:50:17.330 Community Hall: So. 319 00:50:17.990 --> 00:50:24.430 Community Hall: And just to kind of follow up back on that one, I think that's why we're looking to the AI, 320 00:50:24.460 --> 00:50:49.279 Community Hall: screening of fronts to give the resident that capability is for us to provide the checklist right the standard checklist and they can just run through that to make sure if their their project is complete and and address our standard plan review comments understanding that structural design is a little bit different and that will do will need our plan director to look into more detail but the very 321 00:50:49.280 --> 00:51:01.949 Community Hall: basic, like, you know, non, analysis type of comments, we're looking at putting on, on, on the checklist, and then having that AI run through that pre-screen. So this should 322 00:51:02.100 --> 00:51:16.160 Community Hall: basically standardize a little bit more with the plan review process. Sure, sure. And I think that's also an opportunity for it to become clear to the public what it is that you know. How are these? How are these criteria derived? And 323 00:51:16.190 --> 00:51:22.820 Community Hall: And driven. I also will say, maybe it's because I haven't done anything that's required a permit for a long time. 324 00:51:22.990 --> 00:51:37.669 Community Hall: I actually, you know, one of the things that kind of came up here, and I think this has been a principle we've seen before, you know, when a plan is presented, you review it in its entirety, not just focusing on the parts, the specific parts that you need. I think that's actually a good thing. 325 00:51:37.790 --> 00:51:39.990 Community Hall: You know, 326 00:51:40.190 --> 00:51:56.109 Community Hall: when when that highlights something that would be an issue, you know, incidentally highlights something would be an issue. I I think you know, hopefully, the the penalty of that is that it may be difficult for you to do the window change if you have something, you know, out of code and non-compliant. 327 00:51:56.890 --> 00:52:05.770 Community Hall: But then it doesn't mean that you know somebody. You're you're gonna get an order from the city to take your fence down unless that's a true safety issue. 328 00:52:08.210 --> 00:52:26.920 Community Hall: All right, any other comments? Yes. Yeah, so, a few comments. So, one is this list of what is a small home upgrade and what is not. It would be great to get a more comprehensive list, and, and just to understand, you know, what it is, what it isn't, and kind of what is in the scope, because I think that 329 00:52:27.140 --> 00:52:41.819 Community Hall: it would be great to have that be part of the conversation as well. And then for them, you know, for each one of them, if it's easier… if it's easier to do, like, in the table, just be like, what is the current process? Is it online? Is it, you know, manual? Just so we understand. 330 00:52:41.820 --> 00:53:01.510 Community Hall: what is currently online, what is, you know, automated, fully automated, what is proposed to be automated, just so we have a sense for kind of the scope of the change that is being proposed. And then we can look at also, you know, the types of… I mean, all the permits comprehensively that this would cover. We love reading small print here, so… 331 00:53:01.610 --> 00:53:16.689 Community Hall: You know, we're happy to read it. And, so, so that's one thing. And then, the other thing is, yes, I would, I would highly recommend… So it sounds like a lot of the issues that you have been identifying is just, 332 00:53:16.690 --> 00:53:22.440 Community Hall: And from… just from reading the report, like, people are not submitting everything they're supposed to submit up front, and then… 333 00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:28.460 Community Hall: when that happens, there's a lot of churn, and that's where the delays happen, right? So, 334 00:53:28.660 --> 00:53:30.170 Community Hall: I I think there's 335 00:53:30.380 --> 00:53:40.750 Community Hall: maybe it's because it's different from city to city. And maybe it's because you're dealing with people who don't do this on a day in day out basis like you guys do. So it would be helpful to understand, you know. 336 00:53:40.750 --> 00:53:54.309 Community Hall: Is there a pattern to the types of things that are being missed? You know, so we know exactly kind of where the problems are, like they always miss, you know, like in the case of, I'll just throw that out, but let's say, you know, it's HVAC. 337 00:53:54.310 --> 00:54:08.879 Community Hall: they always miss the decibel report, you know? It's like, I don't know. Or, you know, if there's any patterns like that, where it's like, oh yeah, that's an easy fix, you know? It's like, we can just be like, did you include the decibel report? You know, did you include the blah blah bl 338 00:54:09.190 --> 00:54:13.839 Community Hall: So I think that would be really helpful. So can I read the letter now? 339 00:54:14.070 --> 00:54:14.890 Community Hall: All right. 340 00:54:15.340 --> 00:54:29.539 Community Hall: Yeah, absolutely. Sorry, were we still doing questions, or are we interleaving? It seemed that people had moved beyond questions at this point, but you can still ask questions. Okay, we can come back with more questions, right? Yes, yeah, yeah, go ahead. Okay, so, 341 00:54:29.540 --> 00:54:42.579 Community Hall: I won't share the name, but it's a big company that does a lot, and I asked them how many permits they do in Cupertino, and they said about 50 a year in Cupertino, so… and they work in the South Bay. 342 00:54:42.580 --> 00:54:59.619 Community Hall: So this is what they wrote. They said, we process a large number of permits in Cupertino each year, and we'd be glad if our comments could help improve the permitting process. Our main concerns are simple permits cannot be submitted through the online portal and must instead be submitted by email. 343 00:55:00.030 --> 00:55:08.080 Community Hall: I don't… I don't have the details to what that means. Applications submitted by email often experience significant processing delays. 344 00:55:08.530 --> 00:55:26.480 Community Hall: The permit review process generally takes longer than in many other cities, and this is for heat pump water heaters. In other jurisdictions, these processes are much more automated, which helps reduce turnaround times. Other than that, we've had a very positive experience working with the city staff, and we appreciate their assistance. 345 00:55:29.590 --> 00:55:35.409 Community Hall: Oh, thank you. Appreciate that. No, and that's… that's noted, and that was kind of mentioned in our portal. 346 00:55:35.510 --> 00:55:41.190 Community Hall: Yeah, it's lacking. I don't know about significant delays on the emails, because I think we're… 347 00:55:41.570 --> 00:56:00.119 Community Hall: stick around 48 hours. It's funny, people, you know, they… they don't want to come in, like Phuong said, and so you have your… we get so many emails every day, because nobody wants to come. If people… it was half and half, that'd be really nice. But… so it takes a day or two for us to process those, right? Which is unfortunate. If the… and two, a lot of these… 348 00:56:00.120 --> 00:56:07.889 Community Hall: They could go online and do it. They will be able to. Well, the heat pump one will be able to, but some of them then go online, but yet they don't want to 349 00:56:07.890 --> 00:56:18.579 Community Hall: mess with it, right? So, I've heard from several contractors that they're not very tech-savvy, and they would much rather use email than the online portal. Right, I know. So that's a barrier, so I think 350 00:56:18.580 --> 00:56:35.070 Community Hall: this is why I go back to, you really need to be talking to them, because I think you'll hear what their pain points are, because, you know, you guys are in this portal day in, day out, but I heard this over and over and again from several of my contractors, you know, the solar guys, the roof guys, the plumbing guys, you know, it's like, they were just like. 351 00:56:35.070 --> 00:56:44.089 Community Hall: This portal is really difficult. We don't want to deal with it. We'd rather just send an email. And it's just like, okay, well, you know, so, yeah, so. 352 00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:47.840 Community Hall: For sure. 353 00:56:48.570 --> 00:56:54.709 Community Hall: Oh, sorry, it looked like you were reaching. I am. So, I have a question, because it affected me. 354 00:56:54.870 --> 00:57:01.440 Community Hall: when they submit plans, If the project takes a long time. 355 00:57:01.770 --> 00:57:02.530 Community Hall: Like. 356 00:57:02.830 --> 00:57:07.570 Community Hall: Our contractor specified a specific bird safe, Light fixture. 357 00:57:08.210 --> 00:57:15.900 Community Hall: And by the time it was time to put in the light fixtures, that was discontinued. So, is it normal to specify, like, a specific 358 00:57:16.230 --> 00:57:28.600 Community Hall: model exact thing for that? I don't know. I can help answer that. Okay. Yes, it is, because every light fixture that is, proposed can be different. 359 00:57:28.610 --> 00:57:42.980 Community Hall: And we've had instances where people propose something, and then we go out to do the final inspection, and it's completely different and doesn't meet the requirements either. So it is easy when we're doing the review, and when the building inspector goes out 360 00:57:42.980 --> 00:57:59.750 Community Hall: matches up what you said you were going to put in, it's easy for them to do that inspection to make sure that it's all what was approved. Okay, and when it doesn't match because it's not available, what happens then? You can just revise the plans. It's not a hard process. You would just come in, you would say, hey, you know what, I just want to 361 00:57:59.750 --> 00:58:18.790 Community Hall: revise the plans to not have this light now, I want this one. Still meets the requirements, we do the review, and it's just a little revision to the plans. So, can the homeowner do that, or does it have to be the contractor? I will look at Sean for that. You know, if the plans are stamped and signed, it's that person kind of has the copyright. 362 00:58:18.790 --> 00:58:27.240 Community Hall: to that, so we would need their authority to change their plans, so typically… but if it's a designer, the homeowner drew their own plans? Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. 363 00:58:28.680 --> 00:58:40.369 Community Hall: Commissioner Rao? Yeah, I had another question on the turnaround times. I've heard anecdotally that the turnaround time from planning is significantly longer than building. 364 00:58:40.520 --> 00:58:45.780 Community Hall: And perhaps, understandably so, they're dealing with commercial projects and larger projects, different scope. 365 00:58:46.190 --> 00:58:48.380 Community Hall: Not a like-for-like comparison, but… 366 00:58:48.600 --> 00:58:54.969 Community Hall: Is there a way to look at this to see how you might eliminate planning review for a certain category of permits where 367 00:58:55.110 --> 00:58:59.800 Community Hall: It may be feasible, maybe looking at competitively, how are other cities doing this? 368 00:59:00.130 --> 00:59:05.380 Community Hall: And I, I guess the one approach to simplification is how do you make things faster. 369 00:59:05.620 --> 00:59:13.729 Community Hall: The other approach is, how do you eliminate friction and reduce steps and reduce load on staff as well? And so, maybe that's something to look at to see. 370 00:59:14.060 --> 00:59:22.669 Community Hall: Are there other cities doing things in certain ways where planning does not need to get involved, and are there some best practices there that will eliminate that and reduce load as well? 371 00:59:24.730 --> 00:59:29.899 Community Hall: On the similar lines, ministerial approvals, looking at other cities, what they do versus… 372 00:59:30.080 --> 00:59:32.109 Community Hall: What we do, and how we might 373 00:59:32.420 --> 00:59:43.479 Community Hall: look at ministerial approvals as a way to simplify as well. Sure, I mean, to the extent that building staff can also review the zoning requirements for setbacks and things like that, if that review can be done at a one-stop shop. 374 00:59:43.620 --> 00:59:53.319 Community Hall: Planning can be eliminated from that review, but if the community continues to have a desire to ensure that buildings and structures meet setbacks and 375 00:59:53.320 --> 01:00:04.109 Community Hall: you know, all those plant… the stuff that's in the zoning title is complied with. That review does not occur with… in the building department. They only look at the building code. 376 01:00:04.340 --> 01:00:09.439 Community Hall: So, to that… to the extent that those permits don't need to be reviewed for that. 377 01:00:09.700 --> 01:00:11.490 Community Hall: Yeah, we don't need to look at plans 378 01:00:11.620 --> 01:00:15.839 Community Hall: Yeah, I'll leave the feedback at a high level, right? Look at the 379 01:00:15.970 --> 01:00:19.470 Community Hall: Competitive data to see if there are opportunities and leave it at that. 380 01:00:21.830 --> 01:00:39.990 Community Hall: All right, so I did have some comments on this. First one, absolutely agree with Commissioner Linskog. I think when I was looking at this, I was thinking about, you know, where is the data? I think you are actually sitting on a lot of data from the applicant side on, you know, what are the total SLAs for a given project, and 381 01:00:39.990 --> 01:00:55.189 Community Hall: maybe for the longer ones, what is causing the delay. And I've spoken with staff about that before, so I understand why that data was not looked into, because it would be a very manual exercise, you'd have to anonymize all the data, and make sure that, you know, you're just not giving away any personal information. But… 382 01:00:55.190 --> 01:01:09.889 Community Hall: to the extent that that could be done, I think it would actually… like, there's no need to survey the public. Like, you have the data right in front of you, actually. It's looking at, you know, your Accela and seeing, you know, where did projects get stopped, what were the questions that people were asking, and 383 01:01:09.890 --> 01:01:16.239 Community Hall: Or what are the, you know, documents they were missing, or things like that. So if there's a way to look into that data. 384 01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:26.320 Community Hall: I understand it would be a sort of cleaning exercise to get through it, but I think you'd probably get a lot of the answers in terms of what is causing delays. 385 01:01:27.270 --> 01:01:35.269 Community Hall: I do think, that the… I support the clear checklists and instant online permits, I think that's great. And I think… 386 01:01:35.450 --> 01:02:00.119 Community Hall: So I know one of the pain points that was listed was, or not the pain points, but the cause of delays was just that a lot of it is on the contractor end, on the applicant's side. Full disclosure, I'm currently going through a renovation right now, and every time I think there's an issue and I realize, oh, that was actually on the GC's end or something that they missed. That said, I think when applicants are consistently missing 387 01:02:00.120 --> 01:02:06.409 Community Hall: Things, again, this is like, where are the, they're the trends, where are the things consistently missed, and if they are. 388 01:02:06.410 --> 01:02:09.230 Community Hall: I think that we the city can ask. 389 01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:16.800 Community Hall: how can we make that information easier for them to find and access? So one thing I noticed on our website is that 390 01:02:17.040 --> 01:02:35.019 Community Hall: we… when I go to find building permits, there is no one page for small home upgrades, and… and I think it's actually a little bit hard to find the permit form itself, and all the associated, like, checklists and requirements. And I've noticed for some other cities, it's a pretty clear flow. You go to a page that shows you 391 01:02:35.150 --> 01:02:42.769 Community Hall: renovations by home type. So, like, ADU, small home upgrade, you know, major residential, things like that. And so, you sort the 392 01:02:42.770 --> 01:02:57.200 Community Hall: information by home upgrade type, and then within that, you lead people to all their information. So I think there may be something that can be done with the website, actually, and that would help free up staff, because then you can, instead of fielding all these questions, you can just point them back to the website. 393 01:02:57.200 --> 01:03:00.200 Community Hall: So hopefully that would save you some time. 394 01:03:00.200 --> 01:03:05.489 Community Hall: And, you know, maybe helping clarify some of the code requirements as well. 395 01:03:05.550 --> 01:03:19.089 Community Hall: And then, you know, I would say, to the extent that… I know it's… it can be tricky, but to the extent that specificity can be increased on where… where needed, I think it's helpful for… for the… the customer. Like, you know, I currently… 396 01:03:19.090 --> 01:03:32.670 Community Hall: where the back and forth is happening for us is sometimes there's certain measurements that are needed, but the contractor did not provide those exact specific measurements, and so, like, the more clear that you can get, I actually think more information and more direction is better. 397 01:03:32.700 --> 01:03:35.260 Community Hall: and then… 398 01:03:36.430 --> 01:03:44.229 Community Hall: I think, you know, as a whole, I think staff is already doing a lot of work here. So, oh, and the final one. 399 01:03:44.410 --> 01:03:49.520 Community Hall: So we had discussed this earlier, but if we can get better data on the turnaround types. 400 01:03:49.600 --> 01:04:07.040 Community Hall: times for different types of home permits. I think that would be really helpful, because it sounds like not all of the permit types need streamlining. Some of them, if they're going through in two days, we can just move past that, and just figure out which ones are. But yeah, I think as a whole, it's, you know, the whole user journey of 401 01:04:07.140 --> 01:04:19.180 Community Hall: on on both the applicant and the staff side of where we can speed things up. So those are my comments for now any other comments. Yeah, I'd be happy to add some comments here. Thank you. Chair. 402 01:04:19.630 --> 01:04:28.290 Community Hall: So I would recommend if you do a follow-up survey to the applicants in particular and to residents to try and get AI to write the survey. 403 01:04:28.560 --> 01:04:36.659 Community Hall: Because AI can be pretty good at this if you can particularly give it some prompts to look at how do you simplify this from the perspective of the applicant. 404 01:04:36.890 --> 01:04:44.719 Community Hall: And from the perspective of residents as the stakeholders, you know, they were the stakeholders. How would you… how would you simplify it and have AI write the survey? Because… 405 01:04:45.030 --> 01:04:56.060 Community Hall: this is a pet peeve of mine. I see the surveys, and I feel that didn't really ask the question if I were a resident or an applicant that I would like to see asked. And so, would love to see some objective 406 01:04:56.740 --> 01:05:01.219 Community Hall: non-involved entity, like an AI tool, write the survey, so just something to look at. 407 01:05:01.520 --> 01:05:04.909 Community Hall: The other thing that I want to bring up is when I look at these 408 01:05:05.260 --> 01:05:07.770 Community Hall: Permit streamlining efforts in progress. 409 01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:12.240 Community Hall: It may be worth looking at other things we should stop. 410 01:05:12.510 --> 01:05:24.849 Community Hall: Or deprioritize in order to focus on the things you need to do, because there's so much ahead of you that you haven't even looked at yet, because you don't have the applicant feedback and the rest in feedback, and maybe that wasn't the direction, and we need to 411 01:05:25.130 --> 01:05:27.490 Community Hall: Either give you direction here or otherwise, but… 412 01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:33.590 Community Hall: I would encourage looking at what you stop doing as one of the things to simplify as well. 413 01:05:33.860 --> 01:05:39.880 Community Hall: And AI… You know, your benefits vary. It may hallucinate, it may do whatever, so… 414 01:05:39.990 --> 01:05:48.149 Community Hall: If you ask the applicant whether AI is the single burning topic on their minds, they may they may tell you what really matters for them. Right? So that's something. 415 01:05:48.420 --> 01:05:52.070 Community Hall: The other thing I'd add is, it'd be good to get a clear 416 01:05:52.220 --> 01:05:57.280 Community Hall: Benchmark on the experience with the consultant staff versus in-house staff. 417 01:05:58.530 --> 01:06:08.350 Community Hall: And use that data to make the case for whether the staffing has to be in-house for this critical function. We have a lot of other places that may not have the 418 01:06:08.500 --> 01:06:14.850 Community Hall: The kind of impact that planning and building have on our city from a long-term perspective, so just looking at 419 01:06:15.250 --> 01:06:21.000 Community Hall: Is it better to get in-house staff in certain cases because this is a critical function, so maybe that's something to look at. 420 01:06:22.030 --> 01:06:25.020 Community Hall: And I will yield my time, so someone else can… 421 01:06:25.090 --> 01:06:36.960 Community Hall: Sorry. Oh, go ahead. Okay, I just have a quick comment. I do think we do need to do a survey, because I agree there's a lot of data that's available in your databases. 422 01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:57.260 Community Hall: But it would be really interesting to see because I think there is a lot of data just, you know, when you talk to people into, oh, I got really confused when I did this and I know I may have missed something. And so you're not going to get that kind of the qualitative feedback just from looking through the admittedly extensive data you guys have. 423 01:06:57.260 --> 01:06:58.629 Community Hall: So getting that 424 01:06:58.640 --> 01:07:12.009 Community Hall: I think would be valuable. I would also really like to see if we can, get a sense for how many people did not apply for permits because they thought it was scary or confusing, and kind of, you know. 425 01:07:12.050 --> 01:07:15.539 Community Hall: What is the kind of low hanging fruit? 426 01:07:15.590 --> 01:07:35.520 Community Hall: Or they don't know that they need a permit. Like, did you know you need a permit to replace a bathroom fan or a window, right? It's like, oh gosh, no, I don't think I do. But like, oh, okay. And if we made it really easy and it was cheap and online and instant, you know, it's like, so getting that context I think would be really interesting as well. 427 01:07:36.750 --> 01:07:41.370 Community Hall: Just want, you know, so I guess I'm sending out any type of survey to 428 01:07:41.500 --> 01:07:59.779 Community Hall: people's email that I have, right? So I'm not going to be hitting anybody that hasn't come and visited us here. You get what I'm getting. I don't have everybody's email. I mean, I can put something on my website, but I have a survey on there that nobody puts anything on, so I want this to be meaningful. So, you know, if we're going to go down this 429 01:07:59.910 --> 01:08:12.220 Community Hall: this thing, which is fine, it's, you know, the database I have is from the permit record kind of info, right? Hitting the developers, the contractors, and the homeowners, and getting some feedback. So, anyway, I'm just throwing that out there, where 430 01:08:12.360 --> 01:08:21.060 Community Hall: You know, but the questions you're kind of after, I hear you loud and clear. Yeah, I think the city as a whole can solve that one. Well, yeah, we have emails, I guess. 431 01:08:25.399 --> 01:08:37.140 Community Hall: I just want to add to that comment really quickly, if you might consider removing the permit number so that the survey is anonymous, and maybe also use some of the city outreach methods, you know, email and social media and so on. 432 01:08:37.250 --> 01:08:39.459 Community Hall: Hopefully, you can get some more feedback there. 433 01:08:40.649 --> 01:08:41.729 Community Hall: Commissioner Fung. 434 01:08:41.899 --> 01:08:52.109 Community Hall: Yeah, yeah, it's a couple, a couple of minutes. So one of the things we talked about that I mentioned a little earlier were maybe kind of binning up and categorizing some of the really common ones. 435 01:08:52.210 --> 01:08:55.920 Community Hall: I think that that's that would be a point of interest to the Council. 436 01:08:56.149 --> 01:08:58.990 Community Hall: And and I think that also 437 01:08:59.189 --> 01:09:03.039 Community Hall: When it comes to setting your performance indicators. 438 01:09:03.370 --> 01:09:09.020 Community Hall: That… You know, you probably wouldn't have a special edit if, for instance. 439 01:09:10.160 --> 01:09:19.870 Community Hall: solar solar installation was a common was on the the common list, you know. That would be the areas where you know, demonstrate that you excel, or 440 01:09:19.970 --> 01:09:33.139 Community Hall: you know, I think that there's a good feedback there, because there are many, many things that your department would have to deal with. The common ones, those are the ones you really, you know, you really want to put the focus on and emphasize. 441 01:09:33.160 --> 01:09:52.749 Community Hall: I think it was notable to me, at least, that there was a comment about your staffing being lower, you know. And so, 1st of all, I would say, the information you gave us around the consulting. Your use of consulting is useful to have explicitly in that report. But but I would also say. 442 01:09:52.790 --> 01:09:59.740 Community Hall: This is also a good context to say, you know, what would it? What would another person mean? Or 443 01:09:59.830 --> 01:10:03.499 Community Hall: you know, the way that question is often asked is, what if I had a different tool? 444 01:10:03.910 --> 01:10:11.860 Community Hall: So, the one that… I'm sure that I can guarantee the one that the Council wouldn't want you to say is, we'd like to replace the portal. Although, I think… 445 01:10:12.390 --> 01:10:30.579 Community Hall: from the people you've… what you've heard here, and what we've heard from you, that actually would probably be a high payoff thing. So I… I think that would definitely, you know, try to, include some analysis on that, about what would… what would that mean if, you know… I'm sure that's going to be a big investment, you know, half a million bucks or a million bucks, right? 446 01:10:30.690 --> 01:10:36.579 Community Hall: What would that mean to your ability to, you know, to do your jobs and serve the public? 447 01:10:37.670 --> 01:10:39.119 Community Hall: And I think that's it for me 448 01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:55.309 Community Hall: Commissioner Rao? And I was gonna add, you know, on this topic of outreach, we have our ATP members here, they seem to have done fantastic outreach. I see there are yard signs all over the city, maybe the ATP team might share some best practices on how to get yard signs all over the city. 449 01:10:55.310 --> 01:11:02.430 Community Hall: And, we might get some planning and building outreach through yard signs or whatever, Has worked for, 450 01:11:02.720 --> 01:11:07.949 Community Hall: For the community, I guess, low-tech works. The other thing that might work is a banner on Stevens Creek for 451 01:11:08.250 --> 01:11:13.760 Community Hall: whatever reason, people have to drive on Stevens Creek, they see the banner, so maybe those are low-tech methods that might work. 452 01:11:15.300 --> 01:11:27.379 Community Hall: I had one other comment, and I'm not sure how much this may apply to the small home upgrades versus larger ones, but a feedback I did receive from a general contractor was 453 01:11:27.380 --> 01:11:39.010 Community Hall: around, sometimes the delays can happen when the plan check reviewer changes, so I'm not sure how often that happens with a small home upgrade, if it's not as much as more large thing. 454 01:11:40.990 --> 01:12:05.940 Community Hall: The turnaround time shouldn't be affected by any plan reviewer. So like our typical is the initial review is 15 business day, and then subsequent reviews are like 10. And it sticks with the same person, I think was part of the question, right? Yeah, we don't switch it up. Unless they go on vacation. Unless they happen to be gone. And people are like, hey, Bong's on vacation. I want my plan. Then I'll dive in. 455 01:12:05.940 --> 01:12:11.300 Community Hall: and do it, but otherwise, you start it, you finish it. Yeah, that's the most efficient way, right? So… 456 01:12:11.540 --> 01:12:12.220 Community Hall: Got it. 457 01:12:12.350 --> 01:12:14.950 Community Hall: Great any other feedback from Commission. 458 01:12:16.100 --> 01:12:25.780 Community Hall: Yeah, I do have one more. So, I know we talked a little about what's in scope and what's out of scope, and certain things might be considered not a minor remodel or simple remodel. 459 01:12:25.980 --> 01:12:38.929 Community Hall: And maybe that's an area that you might also look at to see if something is outside the definition. How do you pull it into the definition of simple remodel? Because if your processes are different for minor versus non-minor. 460 01:12:39.190 --> 01:12:43.789 Community Hall: Are there projects that can be left-shifted so that they also gain the benefit of this, so… 461 01:12:44.420 --> 01:12:45.090 Community Hall: Thank you. 462 01:12:46.210 --> 01:12:55.820 Community Hall: If I can just comment quickly on that, that's why I asked for the list of what they consider minor versus not, so that we as a body get a chance to give input on that. 463 01:12:57.570 --> 01:12:59.079 Community Hall: Yep, I agree with that as well 464 01:13:00.040 --> 01:13:09.869 Community Hall: Okay, and with that, then we will, conclude the study session, and we will move on to, again, I had flipped the order, so we will move to staff and commission reports next. 465 01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:21.930 Community Hall: Let's go through. Do we have any staff and commission reports? I actually don't have a staff report for the commission. All right. Any commission reports? 466 01:13:22.680 --> 01:13:29.239 Community Hall: So, no staff reports, but are there new projects that are in the pipeline that 467 01:13:29.690 --> 01:13:33.620 Community Hall: Staff may want to talk about any new or any progress on. 468 01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:45.270 Community Hall: There isn't anything that is ready for the Commission's review at this time, so till that point, we can't really discuss the projects. All the projects that are on the City's website are currently in review. 469 01:13:45.940 --> 01:13:48.430 Community Hall: And do we think ODS might be… 470 01:13:49.070 --> 01:13:59.850 Community Hall: ODS? At this point, that project is a little bit on hold, because we've kind of shifted our focus on the, health and safety element, and, other project, the housing element. 471 01:13:59.910 --> 01:14:09.290 Community Hall: Update. So, that has been on ice for a little bit, but, once we're able to get those two under our belt, then we'll be shifting our priorities. 472 01:14:11.710 --> 01:14:17.769 Community Hall: Any other commission reports? Yeah, as a commission report, I want to reiterate the rest and feedback that we got. 473 01:14:18.020 --> 01:14:22.339 Community Hall: Concern around going from a window remodel to a fence. 474 01:14:22.910 --> 01:14:28.159 Community Hall: Has severely undermined confidence, in some of the 475 01:14:28.540 --> 01:14:31.799 Community Hall: Some of the ability to reach out, so we just need to… 476 01:14:32.010 --> 01:14:40.590 Community Hall: think about that, just want to share that feedback, and make sure we can… I will follow up on staff's offer to see how we can help that incident output. 477 01:14:41.070 --> 01:14:47.399 Community Hall: That is not an isolated episode. I've had another episode or two where people have been really… 478 01:14:47.590 --> 01:14:54.229 Community Hall: Concerned about the scope expansion on what they thought was something they were starting with and went somewhere else beyond that, though. 479 01:14:54.350 --> 01:14:55.150 Community Hall: Thank you. 480 01:14:56.960 --> 01:15:02.420 Community Hall: All right. And then we will move to future agenda setting. Any agenda requests? 481 01:15:03.450 --> 01:15:12.910 Community Hall: Commissioner. Thank you, Chair. I would like to see if we can agendize a panel session with applicants along the lines of what we just finished up, if there is a way to do a 482 01:15:13.120 --> 01:15:29.440 Community Hall: study session with applicants to get feedback, but not just as a survey, but in the presence of commissioners, so that we can ask the applicants questions, and we can have a more informed conversation. I don't know how we would agendize that, but I will leave that for staff to consider. Maybe that's… 483 01:15:29.590 --> 01:15:30.689 Community Hall: Something we could do. 484 01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:34.240 Community Hall: Do I have a second? 485 01:15:35.270 --> 01:15:39.840 Community Hall: I will second that, and I think we will discuss that with Staff. Thank you. Thank you. 486 01:15:40.070 --> 01:15:42.060 Community Hall: Any other agenda requests? 487 01:15:42.780 --> 01:15:43.560 Community Hall: Yes. 488 01:15:45.230 --> 01:15:49.340 Community Hall: Applicants for projects that come before the Planning Commission. 489 01:15:49.650 --> 01:15:58.529 Community Hall: Or were we looking at smaller… Small… that was in the context of the CWP, so looking at how do we simplify… how do we simplify… 490 01:15:58.760 --> 01:16:08.519 Community Hall: permits, yeah, for single-family homes. If I may ask a question about that, I mean, is that part of this project that, you know, was presented tonight, or is that a completely separate thing? 491 01:16:10.090 --> 01:16:20.760 Community Hall: I don't know. I would leave that to staff's discretion on how you would treat that, but as an agenda item, I believe that just provides for some informed deliberation, and 492 01:16:21.060 --> 01:16:33.010 Community Hall: and a study that would be for staff to then look into how you might want to use it. Well, Commissioner Rao, perhaps, would it make more sense to form a subcommittee to research 493 01:16:33.420 --> 01:16:36.929 Community Hall: Applicant perspectives on small home upgrades, is that kind of… 494 01:16:37.310 --> 01:16:54.129 Community Hall: The intent? I will leave that to the chance discretion along with, staff. Okay, so maybe we have this as an agenda item to either form a subcommittee on, applicant perspectives, or hold some form of study session panel. Yeah, that's acceptable. Okay. Thank you. 495 01:16:54.320 --> 01:17:01.879 Community Hall: You know, Chair, since the subject of streamlining permits for small home projects is the topic tonight. 496 01:17:02.100 --> 01:17:03.479 Community Hall: That may be appropriate. 497 01:17:03.990 --> 01:17:06.320 Community Hall: To form a subcommittee now. 498 01:17:07.710 --> 01:17:25.929 Community Hall: If there's interest, if you're ready, rather than to agendize an item to form a subcommittee. If that's something that we can approve the formation of now, I'd be open to that. May I ask the city attorney a question? That agenda item was closed, to my understanding. Are we reopening that? 499 01:17:27.720 --> 01:17:33.590 Community Hall: It's a study session, I mean, sure, sure, would you be willing to reopen the study session? 500 01:17:34.150 --> 01:17:40.809 Community Hall: Yes, I would be willing to reopen the study session to discuss formation of a subcommittee. Thank you. Okay. 501 01:17:41.290 --> 01:17:42.390 Community Hall: And. 502 01:17:42.770 --> 01:17:56.160 Community Hall: So, would the next step on this just to be… have a vote? Yeah, so I… I guess in that context, I move to propose the formation of a subcommittee for the study of applicant feedback in the context of 503 01:17:56.650 --> 01:18:00.529 Community Hall: Single-family home permit simplification for minor remodels. 504 01:18:01.770 --> 01:18:02.750 Community Hall: But… 505 01:18:05.230 --> 01:18:11.449 Community Hall: Was that a second? What'd you say? Yes, I had seconded earlier, but I'll second it again, and it sounds like Commissioner Linscock 506 01:18:11.890 --> 01:18:20.570 Community Hall: No, I was just trying to understand. So, are we talking kind of like doing focus groups with, with applicants of small… is… 507 01:18:21.600 --> 01:18:38.580 Community Hall: If I could just come in, you know, you would form a subcommittee, so you would take two folks, and you vote to appoint them, and then those two would decide the format in which they're going to implement this process. Got it, okay. Can I make one comment? 508 01:18:39.380 --> 01:18:44.779 Community Hall: I don't think it should just be single-family homes. It could be townhouses, or condos. 509 01:18:45.130 --> 01:18:48.430 Community Hall: So I would suggest you modify that just. 510 01:18:49.140 --> 01:18:53.079 Community Hall: Somehow. So accepted. Even apartment buildings, right? 511 01:18:53.890 --> 01:18:58.210 Community Hall: Well, how about we limit it to R1 and R2? Is that okay? 512 01:18:58.870 --> 01:19:03.729 Community Hall: It's… it should be limited to the item that's subject of the study session. 513 01:19:05.570 --> 01:19:14.850 Community Hall: Okay… And that includes… any small remodel, not just a single-family home, correct? Correct. 514 01:19:16.940 --> 01:19:27.999 Community Hall: So the subcommittee should review, the the presentation to see the limitations for what the item was about. The agenda item vice chair says simplification of small home upgrades. So 515 01:19:28.880 --> 01:19:34.880 Community Hall: And is the purpose of the subcommittee to recommend… so… but everyone on the… on the… 516 01:19:35.290 --> 01:19:44.469 Community Hall: on the Planning Commission would participate in whatever format the subcommittee decides for the interaction with the… with the residents? 517 01:19:44.760 --> 01:20:00.300 Community Hall: Is that what we're talking about? As the mover of this motion, I would say this is no different than any other subcommittee. The subcommittee would come back to the Planning Commission, and then the Commission weighs in, and we may then make that a broader set of recommendations from the full Commission. 518 01:20:01.040 --> 01:20:04.970 Community Hall: So, sorry, can you… can you restate the purpose of the subcommittee? 519 01:20:05.340 --> 01:20:08.450 Community Hall: The purpose of the subcommittee is to bring back. 520 01:20:09.470 --> 01:20:14.189 Community Hall: Feedback from applicants for single family home. 521 01:20:14.650 --> 01:20:15.880 Community Hall: Small. 522 01:20:16.980 --> 01:20:30.830 Community Hall: small upgrades and the streamlining of those permits. I think, to clarify, it would not be single-family home, it would be, small home upgrades as defined by the, study session. Correct. By the building department, but… 523 01:20:30.950 --> 01:20:47.429 Community Hall: So I… But the question is whether you're bringing back feedback from those people, or whether you're bringing back a recommendation about collecting feedback. Yeah, that's what I thought it was. So if it's… because I think we should all be involved in that hearing session, listening session. 524 01:20:47.810 --> 01:20:57.739 Community Hall: So if it's… if the purpose of the subcommittee is to come back with a recommendation on how we collect that feedback, and then we all participate in that feedback session. 525 01:20:57.850 --> 01:21:06.850 Community Hall: I'm supportive of that, but if it's that the subcommittee would go gather that feedback, and then bring it back to the Planning Commission, then I'm not supportive of that. 526 01:21:08.010 --> 01:21:15.739 Community Hall: So, originally, this item was suggested as a future agenda item, and I was advised to use a subcommittee, so I'm looking for guidance from 527 01:21:15.850 --> 01:21:23.549 Community Hall: all sites, though we have lost the building staff, so we have actually reopened the item in the absence of the staff that were here originally. So… 528 01:21:24.290 --> 01:21:29.800 Community Hall: Personally, I would… Like the subcommittee to go out and gather the feedback, because 529 01:21:30.030 --> 01:21:35.520 Community Hall: You are not gonna get applicants to come to this meeting, or contractors to come to this meeting. 530 01:21:35.650 --> 01:21:38.710 Community Hall: to give feedback. I mean, we would have to… 531 01:21:39.110 --> 01:21:43.539 Community Hall: Trust whoever's on the subcommittee to go and do the outreach. 532 01:21:43.930 --> 01:21:46.900 Community Hall: And so as a point of 533 01:21:47.720 --> 01:21:54.230 Community Hall: inquiry to the CAO, I guess. Do we need two motions? One to form a subcommittee, and then to appoint members? 534 01:21:57.890 --> 01:22:09.790 Community Hall: Candidly, I don't… I'm not sure how this body as a whole can go out there and solicit the information that Commissioner Linskog is suggesting, and so I'm a little baffled. I simply heard the suggestion to form a subcommittee. 535 01:22:09.900 --> 01:22:20.899 Community Hall: on the item that's within what was discussed, and I thought my suggestion would just facilitate, you know, handling this business now. But… 536 01:22:20.940 --> 01:22:37.230 Community Hall: you know, everyone's raising some really good questions in your discussion, and so maybe we should go back to square one and bring, you know, think this through a little more carefully. Perhaps the chair can discuss this with the liaison to come up with the best process to get this, because I do understand 537 01:22:37.550 --> 01:22:54.950 Community Hall: that obtaining the feedback of applicants and contractors is a critical piece of information to get. The question is, what's the best way to get that? I mean, candidly, if there was a bunch… if there were public comments from applicants and contractors, that would help solve part of the problem, so maybe it's a matter of 538 01:22:55.570 --> 01:23:02.869 Community Hall: you know, better publicizing that this is an item on the agenda? I don't know. So, I want to suggest, Chair, that, 539 01:23:02.990 --> 01:23:20.510 Community Hall: we go back to future agenda, there's a motion, there's a second, and then, Chair, you can have the further discussion with the liaison as to how best to proceed. Thank you, Attorney Wu. I withdraw my motion to form a subcommittee based on advice from the Attorney, and we may go to future agenda items where I can… 540 01:23:20.790 --> 01:23:22.319 Community Hall: We propose the item. 541 01:23:22.700 --> 01:23:38.089 Community Hall: All right. So we are re-closing the study session. Well, before you close that, though we did give direction to the building department to go out and get collective feedback. We're not. So there isn't any reason that you would do this in a subcommittee. 542 01:23:38.350 --> 01:23:39.080 Community Hall: I… 543 01:23:39.390 --> 01:23:47.839 Community Hall: I personally doubt that it would be possible to have a productive subcommittee that has balanced, you know, that gathers balanced feedback. 544 01:23:48.300 --> 01:23:50.009 Community Hall: you know. 545 01:23:50.960 --> 01:23:56.300 Community Hall: in a way that that can be done better than than the what we're asked, what we've asked the building partner to do. 546 01:23:56.330 --> 01:24:15.630 Community Hall: Otherwise, what you'll get is, I know this angry guy, right? We had a number of, we've had a number of kind of anecdotes here, which are, you know, the personal experience of the people on the Planning Commission, right? So, to try to avoid that problem, I would just say, you know, we've given a clear direction to the… 547 01:24:16.270 --> 01:24:17.490 Community Hall: Building department. 548 01:24:18.380 --> 01:24:26.410 Community Hall: All right, thank you. This has been an excellent discussion. We will reclose the study session, go back to future agenda setting, and it sounds like there was a motion to 549 01:24:26.830 --> 01:24:39.060 Community Hall: have this agendized as a future item, and that I will discuss with the staff liaison. And so the item that was proposed and seconded remains, or do we need to restate the… 550 01:24:39.460 --> 01:24:41.319 Community Hall: Future agenda item, one more time. 551 01:24:41.910 --> 01:24:44.770 Community Hall: Just to be clear, Commissioner, this is restated. 552 01:24:46.030 --> 01:24:53.750 Community Hall: I move, or I propose a future agenda item to have a study session with A. 553 01:24:54.340 --> 01:24:57.440 Community Hall: Selection of applicants that may allow for. 554 01:24:58.010 --> 01:25:00.759 Community Hall: An understanding of their pain points. 555 01:25:00.950 --> 01:25:04.410 Community Hall: In the presence of Commissioners and to learn from. 556 01:25:04.970 --> 01:25:08.150 Community Hall: From the study session, any further improvements we may make? 557 01:25:09.740 --> 01:25:12.990 Community Hall: right? And that was seconded by me. So 558 01:25:13.650 --> 01:25:26.400 Community Hall: Thank you very much. This has been a good discussion. We will move on if there are no future other future agenda setting items. Okay, we have a request for a five minute break. Thank you. 559 01:31:29.730 --> 01:31:30.730 Community Hall: Contest. 560 01:31:32.800 --> 01:31:43.390 Community Hall: Alright, thank you very much, everyone. We will now return to the meeting, and we are on Agenda Item 3, which is the review of the draft Active Transportation Plan to provide a recommendation to City Council. 561 01:31:44.240 --> 01:31:46.479 Community Hall: And do we have a staff report? 562 01:31:47.870 --> 01:31:49.010 Community Hall: We do chair. 563 01:31:51.810 --> 01:31:55.909 Community Hall: And presentation. Alright, so… Is it showing? 564 01:31:56.090 --> 01:31:57.380 Community Hall: No. Alright. 565 01:31:57.620 --> 01:31:58.929 Community Hall: There we are. 566 01:31:59.370 --> 01:32:07.269 Community Hall: Good evening, Planning Commission. My name is Matthew Schrader, Senior Transportation Planner. I'm going to provide an update on the ATP and where we 567 01:32:08.800 --> 01:32:12.790 Community Hall: So, the last time we were before the Planning Commission was in February. 568 01:32:13.570 --> 01:32:17.290 Community Hall: Where the commission… Through the chair, we don't see it on Zoom. 569 01:32:19.910 --> 01:32:21.009 Community Hall: Are you on Zoom? 570 01:32:21.120 --> 01:32:25.959 Community Hall: I'm not on Zoom, I'm through the desk here. Okay, we see it now. Thank you. Okay, thank 571 01:32:26.750 --> 01:32:38.500 Community Hall: So we were here last in February, where the Commission provided, some feedback that, was about the project prioritization criteria and the project list specifically. 572 01:32:38.500 --> 01:32:51.579 Community Hall: These recommendations were consistent with what we heard from the BPC, which was that the school proximity scoring might be overweighted and that the Vision Zero high injury network scoring should be increased. 573 01:32:53.120 --> 01:33:07.260 Community Hall: So we then went to the City Council in April and communicated those recommendations from the Commissions. We also presented all the Phase 2 materials that were also presented to the BPC and Planning Commission. 574 01:33:07.260 --> 01:33:16.699 Community Hall: At that meeting as well, we walked the City Council through what it would look like, if they chose that recommended scoring approach, so… 575 01:33:16.720 --> 01:33:23.150 Community Hall: Projects that relied more heavily on the school proximity scoring would fall, whereas projects that 576 01:33:23.250 --> 01:33:33.740 Community Hall: naturally, relied on the Vision Zero scoring would increase, and then if a project was located on a suggested route to school or a high-injury network, those remain relatively flat. 577 01:33:34.110 --> 01:33:43.160 Community Hall: So at that meeting, council provided direction to staff to go and rescore the projects using the commission recommended scoring adjustment. 578 01:33:45.470 --> 01:34:04.140 Community Hall: So, staff then went and rescored the projects as part of Phase 3, and the core of Phase 3 was really just consolidating all of the work that had been developed in Phases 1 and 2, and putting that into a comprehensive document, the draft ATP, for public review. So, the document 579 01:34:04.260 --> 01:34:20.340 Community Hall: is comprised of all the materials that were developed in Phases 1 and 2, the existing conditions, the network recommendations, public input received, and it's all, consistent with the direction that Council has provided throughout the course of the project. 580 01:34:22.590 --> 01:34:41.570 Community Hall: So the draft plan was available for public review for 30 days and most of the comments we received were similar to the type of comments that we gathered in phases 1 and 2. There were specific comments and requests for sidewalk gap closures. There were things that were actually outside the scope of the ATP like 581 01:34:41.670 --> 01:34:55.900 Community Hall: railroad right-of-way acquisition. There were a bunch of minor comments related to the style of the document, so request to change map symbology, or, choose a different image for a specific page. 582 01:34:55.950 --> 01:35:03.259 Community Hall: And then the only substantive change that was made was we added language in chapter one. 583 01:35:03.270 --> 01:35:19.929 Community Hall: Really emphasizing the importance of e-bike and electric micromobility education, specifically for students. This was previously included in Chapter 6 as a programmatic recommendation, but given the community's strong interest in the topic. 584 01:35:19.930 --> 01:35:28.429 Community Hall: We felt it was important to bring it forward in the plan, make it very visible, and really emphasize that this is something that's a community priority. 585 01:35:30.640 --> 01:35:44.240 Community Hall: So the next steps are to go to the BPC for review and then to city council for adoption consideration in September. And the recommended action is to recommend that the city council adopt the active transportation plan. 586 01:35:46.970 --> 01:35:52.030 Community Hall: Great. Thank you, David and Matthew. And we'll bring this back to the Commission now. Any clarifying questions? 587 01:35:55.530 --> 01:36:07.929 Community Hall: All right. Well, I do if I'm I'll go first. How many of these projects? So you know, I the list is very extensive, hundreds of items. How many do we intend to get done within like a 2 to 4 year cycle. 588 01:36:09.310 --> 01:36:21.089 Community Hall: There's no specific number. Project delivery will depend on a variety of factors. We'll look at what's possible within the pavement maintenance schedule, what grant opportunities are present and we could pursue. 589 01:36:21.290 --> 01:36:32.820 Community Hall: Is their community supportive at the time? And ultimately, project delivery is going to depend on the council authorization and being able to move the project through the CIP process. 590 01:36:33.000 --> 01:36:45.669 Community Hall: Okay, so Council looks at the list, and they pick… they're not necessarily going, you know, top-down from highest number of points to lowest. They could literally pick from anywhere in the list. That's correct. I see. Okay, that's helpful. And… 591 01:36:47.040 --> 01:36:56.399 Community Hall: So, I vaguely recall this, but projects cannot get removed from this list once they're on it? Like, if the community doesn't agree with them or anything, how does that work? 592 01:36:56.580 --> 01:37:11.110 Community Hall: There's no reason that council would not be able to amend the plan to remove projects. It just doesn't make sense, and it's very uncommon. Okay, got it. Thank you. And then my final question was on. 593 01:37:11.320 --> 01:37:17.599 Community Hall: one of the pages that said the improvement costs are estimated at 43 million dollars. 594 01:37:17.750 --> 01:37:33.419 Community Hall: And I know that's probably a very high-level estimate, but does that include grant funding or not? And, you know, what's behind that number? That's… so we had HMH as a sub to come up with those construction estimates, and that's looking at all of the projects in the list and their total construction costs. 595 01:37:34.890 --> 01:37:35.710 Community Hall: Okay. 596 01:37:35.900 --> 01:37:46.049 Community Hall: Not including grant funding then? No, so that's just how much is it going to cost if you wanted to go out and build all the projects in the list? Okay, thank you very much. Any other questions from commission? 597 01:37:46.230 --> 01:37:59.980 Community Hall: Oh, yeah, I had a couple of questions. But just to clarify, isn't it? I think the majority of the bike pet projects are some of the most efficient in terms of how much grant money we're able to get. If I remember correctly, is that right? 598 01:38:00.540 --> 01:38:05.280 Community Hall: a lot of recently completed projects have been funded through grants. Yeah. 599 01:38:05.290 --> 01:38:23.399 Community Hall: Okay, so a couple of questions. One is, on page 86, which is the recommended transportation technology corridors, I noticed that Foothill Boulevard was not included, and then the lower half of Miller slash Wolf. 600 01:38:23.400 --> 01:38:36.769 Community Hall: So the second half of the south end of Miller, which I've driven on many times, and cars go really, really fast on that, and it's kind of crazy. Can you talk a little bit about why those two were excluded? 601 01:38:36.910 --> 01:38:41.380 Community Hall: Yeah, so in the… when we're here last, I think, February 10th. 602 01:38:41.380 --> 01:38:57.830 Community Hall: The FEB 10 staff report kind of lays out the methodology for selecting those corridors, and it was first based off of looking at typology C intersections, which were the recommendations for traffic signal and control improvements, and then their relationship to the Vision Zero high injury network. 603 01:38:57.830 --> 01:39:04.279 Community Hall: And then, once we had those established, where within those corridors are their highest rates of 604 01:39:04.280 --> 01:39:21.169 Community Hall: collisions, where the primary collision factor can be associated with red light running or some sort of confusion at the intersection. And then lastly, we looked at which intersections the city actually owns and maintains, because that's going to determine our ability to actually 605 01:39:21.190 --> 01:39:22.870 Community Hall: Put technology in the field. 606 01:39:23.560 --> 01:39:30.590 Community Hall: Okay, got it. And then I had one other question… Okay. 607 01:39:31.020 --> 01:39:48.630 Community Hall: Oh yeah, the shared use path on the Union Pacific Railroad Trail, I think we would all love to see that happen, as soon as possible, but I was just curious, that you included it. Have you had any conversations with UPRR? Because last I checked, they weren't picking up the phone when we called. 608 01:39:49.260 --> 01:40:00.099 Community Hall: No, there have been no new conversations with the railroad, but having a project like that included in a long-range plan is advantageous in the event that things change quickly. 609 01:40:00.540 --> 01:40:01.769 Community Hall: Got it. Thank you. 610 01:40:03.070 --> 01:40:04.539 Community Hall: Any other questions. 611 01:40:04.920 --> 01:40:07.560 Community Hall: Commission Commissioner. Oh, sorry, vice chair. 612 01:40:09.890 --> 01:40:11.090 Community Hall: Oh! 613 01:40:11.300 --> 01:40:15.089 Community Hall: So, I was wondering about the enforcement side of this. 614 01:40:15.210 --> 01:40:17.470 Community Hall: What kind of funding is needed? 615 01:40:17.830 --> 01:40:22.200 Community Hall: To do more enforcement, especially of… 616 01:40:22.590 --> 01:40:24.200 Community Hall: Well, I'll give you an example. 617 01:40:24.510 --> 01:40:32.709 Community Hall: Crossed with the traffic signal on Pacifica and De Anza, and cars zoomed through, almost hitting me. 618 01:40:33.270 --> 01:40:38.610 Community Hall: The person driving it is in this room, actually. I won't name them. 619 01:40:38.800 --> 01:40:43.669 Community Hall: But… I know the sheriff does this kind of enforcement of walk signals. 620 01:40:43.770 --> 01:40:47.080 Community Hall: And pedestrians on some intersections. 621 01:40:47.890 --> 01:40:49.960 Community Hall: How much money does it cost? 622 01:40:50.390 --> 01:40:58.280 Community Hall: to do more of that type of enforcement? Is that hiring additional deputies, or just redirecting their efforts? 623 01:41:00.040 --> 01:41:19.659 Community Hall: That's a good question, Vice Chair, and we don't have budgets calculated for increases in enforcement. I think initially it would be just having discussions with the sheriffs and directing them towards what we have heard or seen or experienced as being the problem areas of the city. 624 01:41:19.990 --> 01:41:34.120 Community Hall: And relying on their expertise as well to… to place their officers where they're most needed, and if we find that in the future we… we do need to supplement that, we can look at diving into the budget. You know, as well, the… 625 01:41:34.450 --> 01:41:44.020 Community Hall: The… with the technology corridors, one of the tools there is red light photo enforcement, and so staff is currently doing some research on 626 01:41:44.120 --> 01:41:50.710 Community Hall: other cities that have red light photo enforcement just to learn whatever we can about how it works. 627 01:41:50.750 --> 01:42:09.829 Community Hall: With the thought of maybe, you know, one day if we implement those as one of our technology corridors, and hopefully that would relieve, you know, some of the burden on the sheriffs for red light running to, to focus efforts elsewhere. That remains to be seen. It's part of what we're studying, right? I mean, I see it, in page 70 in other places, and 628 01:42:10.180 --> 01:42:15.680 Community Hall: So, I presume there's no grants for that kind of thing, like there is for actually physical… 629 01:42:15.870 --> 01:42:17.840 Community Hall: Projects like bike lanes. 630 01:42:18.230 --> 01:42:22.799 Community Hall: grant opportunities for… Projects like that are limited. 631 01:42:23.120 --> 01:42:23.970 Community Hall: Okay. 632 01:42:24.080 --> 01:42:25.319 Community Hall: Alright, thank you. 633 01:42:26.720 --> 01:42:27.690 Community Hall: Commissioner Rao 634 01:42:28.410 --> 01:42:35.439 Community Hall: Can staff comment on which roads and how many will have street parking taken away if this is adopted? 635 01:42:36.670 --> 01:42:59.970 Community Hall: None are going to have street parking immediately taken away. That was addressed through the scoring criteria. So we do know that there are projects that have potential impacts to certain roadways. We don't know the full extent of what those impacts actually are. But when we went to go score the projects because we knew that in certain areas we are going to have to remove on street parking in order to accommodate the improvement. 636 01:43:00.120 --> 01:43:17.080 Community Hall: those projects were automatically deducted 10 points. And then similarly, if there were any potential impacts to arterials, those projects were also deducted 10 points. So we don't know the full scope of what those impacts are, but we're trying to address that within the project prioritization process. 637 01:43:17.650 --> 01:43:22.680 Community Hall: And how would we know, and when would we know what the full impact of those are? 638 01:43:23.750 --> 01:43:38.309 Community Hall: So, through this plan, we also developed the Project Impact Assessment Guidelines, which were reviewed by the Planning Commission in February, and that states that if a project is initiated by Council, and once we are at 30% design. 639 01:43:38.380 --> 01:43:44.880 Community Hall: Those impacts are learned. We'll then present the findings to Council. Council will make a judgment on whether or not 640 01:43:45.020 --> 01:44:01.650 Community Hall: further analysis is required to fully understand those impacts, what the traffic operations issues are as a result of the project, and then they can either discontinue the project, modify the design. So that is something that is also being proactively addressed through this plan. 641 01:44:02.960 --> 01:44:04.399 Community Hall: And would we… 642 01:44:04.760 --> 01:44:12.719 Community Hall: Be getting grant funding if that 30% design stage council recommendation was to not proceed further, would that be. 643 01:44:13.020 --> 01:44:22.889 Community Hall: a cost borne by the general fund and by the city, or would that be something that is grant-subsidized? There's different types of grants, so there's grants that will fund design. 644 01:44:23.180 --> 01:44:40.989 Community Hall: So we can say that we want to pursue a specific program in order to bring a project at 30%. Just because we are going to make modifications to the design doesn't prevent us from being awarded that grant funding. And once we have a 100% design. 645 01:44:41.050 --> 01:44:53.900 Community Hall: It's regardless of what the initial project recommendation in the plan is, the mere fact that we're looking to secure grant funding will be awarded grant funding for a project, even if 646 01:44:54.500 --> 01:44:56.970 Community Hall: It went through that impact assessment. 647 01:44:57.530 --> 01:45:00.329 Community Hall: And the process you just described has… 648 01:45:00.550 --> 01:45:04.049 Community Hall: Our city ever used that and been successful to. 649 01:45:04.160 --> 01:45:07.230 Community Hall: Offset the cost of a 30% design. 650 01:45:07.470 --> 01:45:13.450 Community Hall: To only to decide that we will not proceed further and yet be offset by grant funds. 651 01:45:14.470 --> 01:45:27.890 Community Hall: No, so this is a new process that we're setting out, and I think there's a little bit of confusion here. So, on the design side of things, if Council initiates a project and says, hey, we want to look to see 652 01:45:27.990 --> 01:45:41.680 Community Hall: They can even say, alright, at a conceptual level, what does this project look like? A 5-10% design. We can try and go and secure grant funding for that, or 30%. That's a project in itself that… 653 01:45:41.850 --> 01:45:48.580 Community Hall: grant partner would look at an award, and then, you know, Council will tell us, alright, you're at 30%, 654 01:45:48.880 --> 01:46:02.230 Community Hall: these impacts aren't acceptable, you need to change the design, and that's fine. And we'll go and bring the project to 100% in its new form, and then we'll go out and secure capital funding for the program through a separate grant program. 655 01:46:02.340 --> 01:46:05.339 Community Hall: Or funding for the project through a separate program. 656 01:46:06.440 --> 01:46:16.429 Community Hall: And are we aware of any other cities that has used grant funding for 30% design level studies before the city chooses to actually proceed or not? 657 01:46:20.260 --> 01:46:30.599 Community Hall: Could staff comment on what is an approximate cost to the city if we should have to pay for a 30% design in order to determine if we proceed further or not? 658 01:46:31.980 --> 01:46:37.560 Community Hall: It depends on the project. Yeah, you took the words out of my mouth. It depends on the project. 659 01:46:37.900 --> 01:46:51.369 Community Hall: you know, depending on the project, it is potentially something that could could even be done at staff level, or or with just some very minimal consultant support. If we're just talking about a 30% 660 01:46:51.370 --> 01:47:04.799 Community Hall: design, not full construction documents. There would, you know, you just need a basic layout and some traffic analysis, and the extent to which we could potentially even do in-house. If we did have to hire a consultant, we'd be probably looking at 661 01:47:06.040 --> 01:47:12.349 Community Hall: 10, maybe 20… 1,000 on the high end, depending if we had a major roadway. 662 01:47:12.540 --> 01:47:14.990 Community Hall: But it's, it wouldn't be a. 663 01:47:15.380 --> 01:47:16.840 Community Hall: A huge chunk of money. 664 01:47:17.880 --> 01:47:21.959 Community Hall: Thank you, and could staff remind me once again if we 665 01:47:22.890 --> 01:47:34.809 Community Hall: I believe we assumed that we would be grant funded for this Phase 1, Phase 2, and the process to date, and we needed to accept the report in order to make sure those grants did actually pay out. Is that… 666 01:47:35.170 --> 01:47:51.429 Community Hall: That's correct. So the ATP is being funded through our TDA3 allocation, which I think is what either Palo Alto or Mountain View is also doing. And in order to receive reimbursement, we need to complete the project. 667 01:47:52.360 --> 01:47:56.199 Community Hall: Thank you. And so, would you be able to clarify if we 668 01:47:56.500 --> 01:48:02.330 Community Hall: If Council rejected this report, we would not get the grant funding, but we would have to accept 669 01:48:02.710 --> 01:48:04.860 Community Hall: In order to get the grant funding. 670 01:48:06.570 --> 01:48:07.480 Community Hall: Yes. 671 01:48:09.180 --> 01:48:14.950 Community Hall: But we could… but Council could accept with certain… of 672 01:48:15.170 --> 01:48:18.799 Community Hall: Under what conditions could this be accepted with? 673 01:48:19.070 --> 01:48:24.160 Community Hall: Council just needs to adopt the active transportation plan. Okay. 674 01:48:24.560 --> 01:48:29.239 Community Hall: Well, is there a difference between accepting a study? 675 01:48:29.580 --> 01:48:30.920 Community Hall: Or a report. 676 01:48:31.400 --> 01:48:32.789 Community Hall: and adopting. 677 01:48:34.450 --> 01:48:35.290 Community Hall: That. 678 01:48:35.550 --> 01:48:38.899 Community Hall: That might be a question for Michael. I, I, in my mind, no. 679 01:48:39.400 --> 01:48:54.410 Community Hall: it's the plan that the Council has agreed will be the roadmap for active transportation for the next 5 or 10 years. And that also might be a question we need to ask MTC staff who program TDA3 dollars. 680 01:48:55.510 --> 01:49:01.670 Community Hall: So, if… if council decides to not adopt This plan. 681 01:49:02.050 --> 01:49:03.999 Community Hall: What is the cost to the general fund? 682 01:49:06.560 --> 01:49:09.180 Community Hall: $315,000? 683 01:49:10.750 --> 01:49:15.170 Community Hall: And adopting the plan means adopting all the projects in it, or 684 01:49:16.000 --> 01:49:27.360 Community Hall: Yeah, adopting the projects, adopting the programmatic recommendations. And again, these are just suggestions. And ultimately, all of the projects are going to be delivered through the CIP process. 685 01:49:27.750 --> 01:49:35.870 Community Hall: And so, the… Recommendation from this body, and potentially from Council, could be that the report is adopted. 686 01:49:36.180 --> 01:49:42.250 Community Hall: Bought with a… subsequently more with a substantially modified recommended project list. 687 01:49:42.640 --> 01:49:48.039 Community Hall: I'm trying to understand what is the parameters we can work under… The council can decide… 688 01:49:48.530 --> 01:49:55.320 Community Hall: whatever project list they want to be included in the plan and call that an active transportation plan. 689 01:49:55.540 --> 01:50:03.680 Community Hall: But, you know, to clarify, adopting the plan and all hundred and… 70-some-odd projects. 690 01:50:04.260 --> 01:50:07.289 Community Hall: Does not commit the city to completing. 691 01:50:07.610 --> 01:50:17.739 Community Hall: 170 some odd projects at any time in the future. So we just, we just need to have the plan. So council adopting the plan is not council's promise to 692 01:50:18.350 --> 01:50:19.880 Community Hall: complete the plan. 693 01:50:20.060 --> 01:50:28.839 Community Hall: You know, we have an adopted bike plan, we have an adopted PED plan that has plenty of projects still unfinished. 694 01:50:29.070 --> 01:50:30.730 Community Hall: Or not even started, because… 695 01:50:31.670 --> 01:50:45.470 Community Hall: plans evolve over time, communities change, and, you know, MTC and the agencies understand that. So we just need a roadmap to get us in a direction. If it changes later, if the plan is not filled out. 696 01:50:45.610 --> 01:50:48.310 Community Hall: That's fine, we just need to have that roadmap in place. 697 01:50:48.910 --> 01:51:00.480 Community Hall: Thank you, Joe. I think, to clarify on Commissioner Rao's point, so this Commission could adopt this plan, but with some recommendations for consideration by Council, correct? Okay, I see. 698 01:51:00.880 --> 01:51:02.199 Community Hall: Any other questions. 699 01:51:03.460 --> 01:51:14.789 Community Hall: Commissioner Fung. Yeah. Actually, if I could. Payne, that's a little you. You talked about the the rescoring that was done on projects that had things like removal, parking impact or removal of driving lanes. 700 01:51:15.840 --> 01:51:21.370 Community Hall: I'm curious whether… You know. 701 01:51:23.200 --> 01:51:27.590 Community Hall: The motivation for some of these projects, you know, is to get a positive. 702 01:51:27.710 --> 01:51:30.059 Community Hall: You know, safety outcome. 703 01:51:30.330 --> 01:51:33.960 Community Hall: And… And when you score something downward. 704 01:51:34.840 --> 01:51:36.930 Community Hall: That may have impact on the. 705 01:51:37.490 --> 01:51:41.099 Community Hall: you know, the… what you could deliver. And I'm curious… 706 01:51:42.080 --> 01:51:46.689 Community Hall: You wouldn't… I wouldn't ask you to do it on everything, but I think it would actually be very useful if… 707 01:51:47.150 --> 01:51:53.209 Community Hall: If that were something that could be, that effect could be illustrated so that people could understand the scoring impact. 708 01:51:53.580 --> 01:52:01.500 Community Hall: in particular, I think this comes into play on the kind of really big projects That, 709 01:52:01.700 --> 01:52:03.870 Community Hall: Commissioner Lenskog had brought up. 710 01:52:05.460 --> 01:52:12.509 Community Hall: I I think that maybe I'm wrong. You know, Foothill is probably driven by the fact that we don't control a lot of that. 711 01:52:12.820 --> 01:52:13.590 Community Hall: Right. 712 01:52:13.720 --> 01:52:16.959 Community Hall: the territory there. So maybe that's a different factor. But 713 01:52:17.130 --> 01:52:20.209 Community Hall: A miller, that would be something where. 714 01:52:20.460 --> 01:52:31.210 Community Hall: you know, that's pretty much… it's pretty much our choice, and there's an impact that's… that's coming from… from the changing the scaling model. And… and so I think that it's kind of interesting, you know, if you look at the… 715 01:52:31.360 --> 01:52:33.680 Community Hall: If you look at Division 0 objectives. 716 01:52:33.810 --> 01:52:45.339 Community Hall: what was the effect of the of that down scoring by 10 points, you know, and I think that that actually would be a very useful thing to illustrate, at least in a couple, you know. Maybe that that example. 717 01:52:45.710 --> 01:52:46.909 Community Hall: just so that 718 01:52:48.320 --> 01:53:00.490 Community Hall: I remember one of the feedbacks that we had had was, you know, around these things that had to do with waiting. You know, the waiting for schools had been very, very, very high in the previous 719 01:53:00.840 --> 01:53:04.009 Community Hall: Things, so, so I think that, 720 01:53:04.370 --> 01:53:10.800 Community Hall: to make this effective, to maximize the effectiveness for the you know, the final adoption. 721 01:53:11.000 --> 01:53:20.550 Community Hall: To it just to maybe to understand a little bit a little bit deeper in in illustrative cases of of the effect of the of the effect of the scoring. 722 01:53:23.950 --> 01:53:27.560 Community Hall: Any other clarifying questions from Commission. Yes, Chair. 723 01:53:28.090 --> 01:53:33.179 Community Hall: So, I'm looking at this outreach phase, and thank you for all the, 724 01:53:33.880 --> 01:53:38.630 Community Hall: Sincere efforts that went into the outreach, I was, you know, happy to witness some of that. 725 01:53:39.880 --> 01:53:44.650 Community Hall: How… During the outreach phase, did we communicate that 726 01:53:44.810 --> 01:53:51.529 Community Hall: To residents that we might be losing street parking. Was that, was that explicitly stated during outreach to. 727 01:53:51.640 --> 01:53:54.870 Community Hall: Residents that we could lose street parking because of this project. 728 01:53:55.010 --> 01:54:08.689 Community Hall: No, that was not communicated. Again, we don't know the full extent of what those impacts are, so it would be misleading to potentially misrepresent what is actually going to be built when we're just trying to gather public input. 729 01:54:08.690 --> 01:54:15.999 Community Hall: about whether or not people support these kinds of improvements. And again, we tried to address those impacts with 730 01:54:16.000 --> 01:54:21.339 Community Hall: the project scoring. So, understanding that on certain roadways. 731 01:54:21.500 --> 01:54:36.630 Community Hall: parking removal is going to be required, and that project is going to be deducted and ranked appropriately on the project list, as a result of that. And again, we have the project impact assessment guidelines, which try and mitigate those impacts, whenever possible. 732 01:54:36.990 --> 01:54:41.060 Community Hall: But do you think the outreach could have asked a question with all of the caveats you… 733 01:54:41.190 --> 01:54:54.180 Community Hall: just paraphrased, you know, is there a way that outreach could have occurred with all of those caveats included? It's just not something that's typically done in an active transportation plan when we're looking at, alright, at a very high level. 734 01:54:54.180 --> 01:55:06.650 Community Hall: given the width of the roadway, what's possible here, and you lay out, okay, this is a project that's gonna provide the maximum safety benefits within what's available to us. So… 735 01:55:06.990 --> 01:55:25.360 Community Hall: Those conversations about impacts happen later when we're at the design phase, and that's when the community will provide their input and council will make a determination on, all right, is this something that we want to do, understanding that we have differing public opinion on this specific project? 736 01:55:25.840 --> 01:55:27.990 Community Hall: The staff believed that that. 737 01:55:28.480 --> 01:55:34.389 Community Hall: Disclosure may have materially altered the feedback that you could have received during outreach. 738 01:55:34.550 --> 01:55:35.530 Community Hall: I don't. 739 01:55:35.670 --> 01:55:48.650 Community Hall: I was at all those outreach events and you saw me. You saw me at, I don't know, six, maybe several at the senior center. And candidly, people were very supportive. 740 01:55:48.810 --> 01:55:49.630 Community Hall: Okay. 741 01:55:49.740 --> 01:56:06.589 Community Hall: of the projects, of the plan, of wanting to make the city more walkable and bikeable, and those conversations about impacts and what those mean, and the realities come later when Council is going to be making those decisions. So, I don't think the outreach was impacted by not 742 01:56:06.760 --> 01:56:11.339 Community Hall: Fully disclosing the fact that there are potential impacts that are currently unknown. 743 01:56:11.790 --> 01:56:17.249 Community Hall: And I think if I could just add, you know, I think we're kind of unfairly picking on 744 01:56:17.800 --> 01:56:28.620 Community Hall: Parking is an impact as well. It's getting a lot of discussion here, but, you know, every project potentially has some impact to somebody about something. You know, parking might impact 745 01:56:28.980 --> 01:56:30.770 Community Hall: Half a dozen projects. 746 01:56:31.130 --> 01:56:42.249 Community Hall: other projects, like trails, might go behind residences, and there might be those kind of impacts, and we haven't discussed those, or never have in the past. You know, Ragnar Creek Trail 747 01:56:42.490 --> 01:56:57.869 Community Hall: you know, 60, 70 people would have said that would… it's gonna be a very big impact. Not parking, but an impact. Turns out it wasn't. No one's complained about it since the trail opened. So, every project potentially has something that's going to affect somebody. 748 01:56:58.310 --> 01:57:09.109 Community Hall: And that's something that we would flesh out as Matt is saying, you know, when it gets to the point that it's being considered for inclusion in a cip or 749 01:57:09.110 --> 01:57:19.410 Community Hall: If it gets to that point, you know, 30% design phase, and we will determine what the impacts are, whether it's parking or something else, and make that disclosure to the affected parties. 750 01:57:20.910 --> 01:57:26.469 Community Hall: Thank you. I… I appreciate the perspective, but 751 01:57:26.830 --> 01:57:29.440 Community Hall: I was there in many of those outreach events. 752 01:57:29.850 --> 01:57:35.400 Community Hall: And it is my belief the seniors would have reacted differently had they been asked the right questions. 753 01:57:35.620 --> 01:57:43.210 Community Hall: Including, with all of the caveats, if they've been told, you might See some parking impacts that. 754 01:57:43.570 --> 01:57:47.039 Community Hall: Would have impacted the feedback we got from the seniors. 755 01:57:47.480 --> 01:58:06.730 Community Hall: Yeah, the last thing I'll add is this plan in comparison to the 2016 plan is way less ambitious in terms of the actual network recommendations. So the 2016 plan had envisioned class four bike lanes all the way on Stelling, all the way on Blaney, all the way, I want to say Homestead. And we've. 756 01:58:07.000 --> 01:58:18.429 Community Hall: kind of really pulled back from that, understanding that there's a lot of driveways there, and those projects are going to be both technically challenging, and from a community perspective, you know. 757 01:58:18.870 --> 01:58:30.879 Community Hall: deliverability is going to depend on public buy-in, and those could be potentially contentious. So, when we came up with these network recommendations, we were very mindful to limit those impacts whenever possible. 758 01:58:31.220 --> 01:58:32.120 Community Hall: Thank you. 759 01:58:32.410 --> 01:58:35.410 Community Hall: I will leave my time for other commissioners. 760 01:58:36.170 --> 01:58:37.070 Community Hall: Vice chair. 761 01:58:38.430 --> 01:58:44.430 Community Hall: So when you have an item with a lot of dislikes, like… On page 30… 762 01:58:44.880 --> 01:58:48.100 Community Hall: the Kim Street and Regnark Creek Trail intersection. 763 01:58:48.340 --> 01:58:52.149 Community Hall: Did all those dislikes? Were those all from people? 764 01:58:52.440 --> 01:58:55.270 Community Hall: Whose property's backed up to the trail. 765 01:58:55.770 --> 01:58:59.040 Community Hall: I mean, could we… like David said, we saw the same thing 766 01:58:59.270 --> 01:59:02.460 Community Hall: With the part of the trail that's been completed, and now… 767 01:59:02.740 --> 01:59:05.730 Community Hall: You know, nobody complains about it, everybody uses it. 768 01:59:05.870 --> 01:59:10.069 Community Hall: So I'm just wondering where all those dislikes came from on that item. 769 01:59:10.330 --> 01:59:30.289 Community Hall: Yeah, I think that map came from phase one that's since been removed from the final draft because it's kind of confusing to read. A couple of the maps were removed. So we have the final draft document that was included as part of the packet. But to your point, yes, that is when you looked at the written comments. 770 01:59:30.290 --> 01:59:36.630 Community Hall: there were comments from folks, along the creek there who, were concerned about the impacts. 771 01:59:39.940 --> 01:59:41.380 Community Hall: Any other questions. 772 01:59:42.620 --> 01:59:46.180 Community Hall: Commissioner Rao Yeah, I want to go back to… 773 01:59:46.380 --> 01:59:50.939 Community Hall: Are staff able to quantify if You have a certain… 774 01:59:51.310 --> 01:59:57.080 Community Hall: number of streets where you think we could lose parking. It's not confirmed, but do you think we might lose parking? 775 01:59:59.210 --> 01:59:59.980 Community Hall: Yeah. 776 02:00:00.120 --> 02:00:01.470 Community Hall: We know what those are. 777 02:00:01.850 --> 02:00:04.750 Community Hall: How many streets do we think we could lose street parking? 778 02:00:05.910 --> 02:00:08.510 Community Hall: I think it's 3. I think they're… 779 02:00:09.330 --> 02:00:14.149 Community Hall: Stelling, portions of Stelling, not all of Stelling, Blaney. 780 02:00:14.280 --> 02:00:21.919 Community Hall: portions of Blaney and Miller, south of Stevens Creek and north of Caida Barcelona. 781 02:00:23.530 --> 02:00:31.569 Community Hall: So, to play that back, portions of Stelling could lose street parking. Yeah. Portions of Blaney could lose street parking. And what was the other one? 782 02:00:31.870 --> 02:00:35.779 Community Hall: Miller. And portions of Miller could lose street parking. 783 02:00:36.450 --> 02:00:39.410 Community Hall: Is there any targeted outreach, like. 784 02:00:39.830 --> 02:00:47.450 Community Hall: we do with planning and building to do a thousand feet radius impact notice? Have we done any sort of outreach to those 785 02:00:47.560 --> 02:01:04.340 Community Hall: potentially identified projects where they might want to provide additional feedback to the outreach? These are just concepts. If, in the event that Council chooses to move forward with those as a project, again, that's stuff that will be addressed with our 786 02:01:04.620 --> 02:01:24.389 Community Hall: project impact assessment. In the event that Council looks at those parking impacts and says, you know what, the safety benefits of this project outweigh the on-street parking impacts, and we're going to move forward with the design, there would be extensive outreach to those residents to notify them of the full extent of the impacts, so they could be 787 02:01:24.930 --> 02:01:27.949 Community Hall: Aware of the process and the project. 788 02:01:29.090 --> 02:01:34.830 Community Hall: And are there any scenarios where a project may not actually be its own CIP and therefore could 789 02:01:34.990 --> 02:01:37.589 Community Hall: could actually proceed without coming back to Council. 790 02:01:38.840 --> 02:01:45.549 Community Hall: There may be times when… Minor striping improvements would happen, but none of those would be. 791 02:01:45.760 --> 02:02:03.889 Community Hall: projects with impacts. Like, those projects, understanding the community dynamic and public feelings towards things like that, all of those projects would go through the City Council for them to decide on whether or not that's something they want to pursue. 792 02:02:04.770 --> 02:02:09.769 Community Hall: And using a recent example was, were floating bus stops a CIP project? 793 02:02:13.170 --> 02:02:17.249 Community Hall: Yes, that was part of Stevens Creek Boulevard 2A and 2B. 794 02:02:19.820 --> 02:02:22.430 Community Hall: Help me understand that. So, it was part of the… 795 02:02:23.180 --> 02:02:31.629 Community Hall: Stevens Creek Boulevard, 2A, 2B… Sorry, that's Phase 2A and Phase 2B of the Class 4 Separated Bikeway Project on Stevens Cree 796 02:02:32.100 --> 02:02:38.679 Community Hall: And so the CIP was the overall Phase 2A, Phase 2B project, not the floating bus stop itself. 797 02:02:39.050 --> 02:02:39.970 Community Hall: Correct. 798 02:02:40.860 --> 02:02:45.489 Community Hall: The floating bus stop was a component of the larger project. 799 02:02:45.950 --> 02:02:51.410 Community Hall: And so, in this particular report, the identified 3 streets that we just mentioned. 800 02:02:51.650 --> 02:02:55.540 Community Hall: Would they be part of a larger project such that residents may not notice that 801 02:02:55.740 --> 02:03:00.150 Community Hall: There is impact to street parking because some larger project was adopted. 802 02:03:01.200 --> 02:03:07.899 Community Hall: No, they would be… because of that being the component they would, they would go to council. 803 02:03:10.310 --> 02:03:13.370 Community Hall: So, any street parking removal. 804 02:03:14.950 --> 02:03:16.299 Community Hall: We'll go to council. 805 02:03:16.760 --> 02:03:23.629 Community Hall: Yes, it has to go to Council regardless, because removal of street parking requires an ordinance and a 806 02:03:23.870 --> 02:03:33.150 Community Hall: modification of the municipal code. But even aside from that, the project itself would come to city council for approval before that time. 807 02:03:33.640 --> 02:03:38.890 Community Hall: Are there scenarios besides the buffered bike lane or the Class 4 bike lane? 808 02:03:39.330 --> 02:03:43.200 Community Hall: Where we would still lose street parking because the street is not. 809 02:03:43.520 --> 02:03:46.789 Community Hall: Broad enough to both accommodate parking and a 810 02:03:47.070 --> 02:03:49.099 Community Hall: Buffered by Clint, I guess. 811 02:03:49.890 --> 02:04:01.720 Community Hall: Not a separated bike lane, but a buffered bike lane. The three that Matt mentioned are the only streets in the plan that we foresee could potentially impact on street parking. And those are separated bike lanes? 812 02:04:03.150 --> 02:04:05.520 Community Hall: No, so… 813 02:04:05.840 --> 02:04:17.149 Community Hall: The Miller project, I believe, is just a Class 2 bike lane, standard bike lane, and then Stelling is a combination of Class 4 and Class 2B. 814 02:04:17.440 --> 02:04:28.720 Community Hall: And similarly with Blaney, but Blaney, it would be class four over the highway and then class two B through the residential. 815 02:04:28.840 --> 02:04:32.639 Community Hall: Is there a map you might project while you're describing that? It's really hard to… 816 02:04:33.040 --> 02:04:39.909 Community Hall: both visualize and follow. I don't know if you have a map in your presentation or the staff report that can be shared as you're answering that question. 817 02:04:40.090 --> 02:04:43.189 Community Hall: Yeah, I can look into the staff report. 818 02:04:48.260 --> 02:04:51.140 Community Hall: While he's looking, chair, 819 02:04:51.780 --> 02:04:56.690 Community Hall: At some point, we should move on for deliberation, but before then, take public comment. 820 02:04:57.510 --> 02:05:07.060 Community Hall: Yeah, I think we, if it may take him a while, let's break for public comments. City Clerk, do we have any public comments? We have one request to speak virtually, Jennifer Griffin. 821 02:05:09.340 --> 02:05:10.720 Community Hall: Welcome, Jennifer. 822 02:05:10.720 --> 02:05:13.810 Jennifer Griffin: Thank you very much. Can you all hear me? 823 02:05:14.360 --> 02:05:15.480 Community Hall: Yes, we can hear you. 824 02:05:15.480 --> 02:05:20.410 Jennifer Griffin: Okay, thank you. Thanks to everyone, to staff, and… 825 02:05:20.550 --> 02:05:28.300 Jennifer Griffin: everyone in the city for participating to try to make our active transportation plan a good one that 826 02:05:28.410 --> 02:05:44.089 Jennifer Griffin: that the main goal of this is that everyone is safe, and I think that we have had a lot of discussion about that, lots of different input, lots of different plans to make sure that Cupertino has a robust 827 02:05:44.360 --> 02:05:57.609 Jennifer Griffin: plan that will make sure that everyone and everything is safe. It's a… it's very, very difficult, and there's a lot of external and internal pressures with this type of thing, but I think that 828 02:05:57.700 --> 02:06:06.820 Jennifer Griffin: there has been a lot of work, good work done, to try to make sure that everyone is being heard. In that regard, 829 02:06:07.300 --> 02:06:16.379 Jennifer Griffin: I will just make a few comments. I have been extremely concerned about children on e-bikes. I think I have 830 02:06:16.660 --> 02:06:27.400 Jennifer Griffin: mentioned this before. There have been many, many accidents in other cities and in in areas. I I'm in Santa Cruz a lot down at the 831 02:06:27.510 --> 02:06:35.099 Jennifer Griffin: Rio Del Mar beach areas, and I cannot even begin to tell you what I have seen down there. We have 832 02:06:35.220 --> 02:06:53.869 Jennifer Griffin: 10-year-olds on e-bikes speeding up and down Rio Del Mar Beach with no helmets, doing wheelies, and I'm… and they're going fast, so I'm not sure what type of class bike that is. I have seen adults, too, exhibiting extremely poor 833 02:06:53.950 --> 02:07:11.959 Jennifer Griffin: judgment. I mean, crossing in front of traffic, where there's no crossing area, no helmets, riding recklessly, in and out of traffic, so I'm not blaming children. Adults have been doing this too. One of the problems is that I do not 834 02:07:12.200 --> 02:07:13.350 Jennifer Griffin: C… 835 02:07:13.560 --> 02:07:32.540 Jennifer Griffin: a lot of enforcement, but then again, it's difficult to enforce something like this. I hope in Cupertino that there can be a robust education of schools to make sure that children that are riding e- bikes or scooters or something with a motor 836 02:07:32.710 --> 02:07:34.730 Jennifer Griffin: That they know… 837 02:07:34.770 --> 02:07:53.010 Jennifer Griffin: what they're up against, and that their parents realize, potentially, the risk that they are taking if the children are not properly educated. I think that we can make this safer. One of the cities recently has said that no children under 12 years old 838 02:07:53.010 --> 02:08:03.790 Jennifer Griffin: can ride e-bikes to school. I think the city said no one… no child under 12 could be on an e-bike. That's a bit drastic, but then again. 839 02:08:03.790 --> 02:08:18.070 Jennifer Griffin: That is one of my main concerns. The other thing is making sure that traffic flows smoothly. We want to make sure everyone can drive and be safe. And whatever you're doing, please be safe. Thank you. 840 02:08:18.880 --> 02:08:22.620 Community Hall: Thank you, Jennifer. We have no remaining requests to speak, Chair. 841 02:08:22.790 --> 02:08:26.169 Community Hall: Thank you. So we'll bring it back. I think, Staff, have you found the 842 02:08:26.570 --> 02:08:31.269 Community Hall: We have the map up now, so if we can share screen. 843 02:08:32.940 --> 02:08:37.770 Community Hall: So here we have the network recommendations map, which is included on page 62. 844 02:08:37.880 --> 02:08:40.960 Community Hall: We'll start on Miller, which… Through the chair. 845 02:08:41.490 --> 02:08:46.680 Community Hall: Okay, there we go. I think there's a lag in this showing up on Zoom, so I was gonna say, we might wanna pa 846 02:08:46.810 --> 02:08:53.510 Community Hall: So, on Miller here, we have the standard bike lane, which is just the parallel striping. 847 02:08:53.590 --> 02:09:03.880 Community Hall: North of Cayeta Borsalona, south of Stevens Creek. Over here on Blaney, we have buffered bike lanes all the way to the overcrossing of 280. 848 02:09:03.880 --> 02:09:16.630 Community Hall: and connecting to Homestead, and then we have a continuation of the existing buffered bike lane on Stelling down to Prospect, and again, only Class 4 over, Interstate I-280. 849 02:09:16.640 --> 02:09:17.730 Community Hall: Alright, 280. 850 02:09:22.690 --> 02:09:27.080 Community Hall: And, and so, when you say we don't know if we might lose parking. 851 02:09:27.770 --> 02:09:29.470 Community Hall: What does that really mean? 852 02:09:29.620 --> 02:09:36.019 Community Hall: It means we don't know the number of parking stalls that would need to be removed in order to build the project. 853 02:09:36.290 --> 02:09:39.950 Community Hall: So we know we will lose parking, we just don't know how many Correct. 854 02:09:44.040 --> 02:09:50.659 Community Hall: Oh, so does the state require that cities dedicate part of the public streets? 855 02:09:50.810 --> 02:09:54.490 Community Hall: For parking lots, if there's not sufficient off-street parking? 856 02:09:54.750 --> 02:09:55.480 Community Hall: Okay. 857 02:09:56.530 --> 02:10:01.860 Community Hall: Why are we concerned about 858 02:10:02.190 --> 02:10:04.740 Community Hall: You know, it's great to have a parking space, but… 859 02:10:04.890 --> 02:10:11.759 Community Hall: You know, we maintain those streets, we spend money on paving them, And I'm just concerned… 860 02:10:12.090 --> 02:10:13.610 Community Hall: You know, the city's… 861 02:10:13.880 --> 02:10:22.239 Community Hall: are very limited in imposing parking mandates, parking minimums on new projects, and I don't want to be encouraging 862 02:10:22.390 --> 02:10:28.739 Community Hall: Developers to say, oh, We're not going to include enough parking because we're just, you know. 863 02:10:29.180 --> 02:10:35.589 Community Hall: Our residents can just park their excess cars out on the street, and the city's not gonna ever wanna use that. 864 02:10:36.090 --> 02:10:39.240 Community Hall: Real estate for something different, like a bike lane. 865 02:10:39.370 --> 02:10:55.109 Community Hall: I just don't like the whole idea of exporting parking onto public streets, and this goes with ADUs as well, you know. You can't require parking for ADUs, but you lose the off-street parking if it's… they're ADUs in a garage. 866 02:10:55.290 --> 02:11:07.090 Community Hall: And yet I don't like the whole expectation that, oh, we'll just export all these extra cars onto the streets instead of using them for the public benefit. 867 02:11:07.980 --> 02:11:13.370 Community Hall: So I guess I… I differ a lot with one of my fellow commissioners on… on that. 868 02:11:15.050 --> 02:11:16.940 Community Hall: All right. Do we have any other questions? 869 02:11:17.060 --> 02:11:18.450 Community Hall: Yes, chair. 870 02:11:18.910 --> 02:11:24.439 Community Hall: So, can staff guide us on this recommended programs versus encouraged? What is… 871 02:11:24.710 --> 02:11:28.740 Community Hall: The difference between these, and how should we view them while adopting this, or… 872 02:11:29.250 --> 02:11:37.109 Community Hall: Or making recommendations. Can you please clarify that point? I'm looking at the final draft. It has a section called recommended programs with. 873 02:11:37.450 --> 02:11:40.490 Community Hall: A number of policies, and then there's a set of 874 02:11:40.750 --> 02:11:44.190 Community Hall: Encouragement programs with a number of recommendations. 875 02:11:44.770 --> 02:11:56.880 Community Hall: Yeah, so those… those are just the programmatic recommendations, and they're broken out into different categories. So I think there's education, engineering, enforcement, and… 876 02:11:57.020 --> 02:12:06.089 Community Hall: another that I'm blanking on, but they're all under the umbrella of programmatic recommendations, things that are non- infrastructure projects. 877 02:12:07.560 --> 02:12:11.060 Community Hall: And where in this category list is 878 02:12:11.560 --> 02:12:16.200 Community Hall: Technology-based enforcement, such as speeding cameras and red light cameras. 879 02:12:18.660 --> 02:12:23.380 Community Hall: Probably in enforcement. Let me see, though. 880 02:12:24.970 --> 02:12:28.340 Community Hall: I see tickets and bike patrols and targeted. 881 02:12:33.790 --> 02:12:41.840 Community Hall: I am seeing enforcement, but I only see 3 categories here, which is traffic tickets, bike patrols, and target. 882 02:12:47.220 --> 02:12:47.950 Community Hall: Okay. 883 02:12:50.270 --> 02:13:05.169 Community Hall: So, this is a large report. Is there sections that we should ignore and focus on other sections? Are you specifically asking about red light cameras? Yes, red light cameras, speeding cameras were not part of the enforcement. I guess I'm on page 70 of this report. 884 02:13:06.400 --> 02:13:14.129 Community Hall: Right, but they are contained as projects within the trans… the technology corridor section of the… Okay. 885 02:13:18.120 --> 02:13:22.959 Community Hall: All right. I think we're probably ready to move on to comments. So any comments from the Commission. 886 02:13:24.270 --> 02:13:25.800 Community Hall: Commissioner Lynn Scott. 887 02:13:27.640 --> 02:13:34.149 Community Hall: Go ahead, Commissioner Linscock okay, so, so a couple of comments, 888 02:13:34.360 --> 02:13:44.460 Community Hall: One is… well, actually, it's also a question. So, are all parking spaces the same? Are some used and not used, or are they all, like. 889 02:13:44.680 --> 02:13:45.680 Community Hall: used. 890 02:13:48.610 --> 02:14:00.369 Community Hall: There's different utilization across the city. That's something that we would learn as part of the 30% when we do the impact assessment and do a in-the-field, parking utilization survey. 891 02:14:00.520 --> 02:14:06.849 Community Hall: Okay, so… but it's safe to say not all parking spaces in the city are… are always used. 892 02:14:08.520 --> 02:14:23.279 Community Hall: Depending on the time of day. Correct. Okay, thank you. So I guess my comments on this is, I actually want to commend the staff. I think you guys have done a really good job of trying to listen to all the feedback you've gotten over the last 893 02:14:23.410 --> 02:14:29.729 Community Hall: Year now from from what 3 constituent bodies and plus the the public. 894 02:14:29.770 --> 02:14:48.550 Community Hall: And balancing all of that, rejiggering the scores based on all the feedback you got and trying to come up with a plan that, you know, satisfies all the competing requests you've been given. 895 02:14:48.780 --> 02:14:56.489 Community Hall: Yeah, I mean, it's, like you said, it's nowhere near as ambitious a plan as the previous one, but, you know. 896 02:14:56.950 --> 02:15:11.679 Community Hall: times change. So… so I think, you know, you guys have done a really good job with this plan, so I just want to commend you guys on that. Beyond that, yeah, I mean, I think I asked a lot of the questions I had, so I think I'm good otherwise. 897 02:15:13.320 --> 02:15:14.869 Community Hall: Any other comments. 898 02:15:16.090 --> 02:15:17.320 Community Hall: Commissioner Hong? 899 02:15:18.680 --> 02:15:22.090 Community Hall: Sure, I'll echo that as well. I think that, 900 02:15:22.500 --> 02:15:27.350 Community Hall: I felt that the update is responsive to the feedback that we had given. 901 02:15:27.540 --> 02:15:28.270 Community Hall: Oh. 902 02:15:29.140 --> 02:15:35.429 Community Hall: maybe with that one caveat in in the area that I'd commented on before that that 903 02:15:38.830 --> 02:15:42.540 Community Hall: I don't know that it's necessarily your charter to solve the political problem. 904 02:15:42.690 --> 02:15:45.979 Community Hall: Of, of coming up with a set of recommendations, so… 905 02:15:46.160 --> 02:16:01.530 Community Hall: you know, there is no mechanism other than to have a waiting. And and you know it seems like it's seems like it's sensible, seems like it's applied. You know. I think that these particular changes were very responsive to the to the varying feedback. 906 02:16:01.660 --> 02:16:03.709 Community Hall: That you're getting, 907 02:16:04.190 --> 02:16:12.089 Community Hall: I would just say that, you know, when it comes for adoption, if there's a mechanism through which you can illustrate the effect. 908 02:16:12.310 --> 02:16:15.869 Community Hall: You know, what is the effect of making this weighting change? 909 02:16:15.980 --> 02:16:20.319 Community Hall: So people have a… have visibility on that. I think that would be, 910 02:16:20.540 --> 02:16:29.540 Community Hall: That would be really, really the only addition, I would say. I also, I think, I think I'd ask some questions about e-bikes, and I, it's, it's amazing to me. 911 02:16:29.870 --> 02:16:40.740 Community Hall: how the e-bike map… e-bike map can look different, so different than the bike map, and I would love to talk to you about that sometime. I don't really… it's funny to me, guys, I don't really see how that could be, but 912 02:16:40.860 --> 02:16:48.550 Community Hall: You know, again, I found it to be very interesting, you know, something new on every page, so thank you. 913 02:16:49.780 --> 02:17:08.079 Community Hall: I'd like to make my comment. So, I agree with the Commission. I think there's some excellent projects here, and I know that a lot of work has gone into it. I think the pedestrian improvements especially will, you know, I hear feedback from the community about concerns about crossings, and I think that that'll be really helpful. And I think for me, the one area that 914 02:17:08.080 --> 02:17:12.389 Community Hall: you know, if we were to make a recommendation to Council that I would like to 915 02:17:12.430 --> 02:17:31.159 Community Hall: Maybe caveat or, or recommend that council, potentially reconsider is, since the last time that we saw this report, we have seen an evacuation study, and I think we have seen a lot of concern from the community around their ability to get out. 916 02:17:31.160 --> 02:17:34.920 Community Hall: from the west side safely. We've even seen, 917 02:17:35.030 --> 02:17:48.380 Community Hall: community… a resident-made traffic reports and evacuation reports, and… and so we know there's a lot of concern from the west side and their ability to… to get out, and specifically, I'm looking at Foothill. 918 02:17:48.379 --> 02:17:57.280 Community Hall: In the evacuation study, there are portions of Foothill that are multiples over capacity from a volume-to-capacity standpoint, and so I think 919 02:17:57.590 --> 02:18:21.890 Community Hall: You know, knowing this new information that we have now, and I understand that this is an active transportation report, and it doesn't quite look into evacuation, but at the same time, I don't feel like we should look at transportation in isolation without considering the other factors that impact our roadways and what we might want to, for example, be able to use emergency shoulder lanes for in the event of an evacuation. 920 02:18:22.020 --> 02:18:35.649 Community Hall: My main ask would be, you know, if this commission is in agreement that we make a recommendation that council may want to revisit some of the items that some of the list items that impact the west side. 921 02:18:36.080 --> 02:18:38.550 Community Hall: And that's my comment. Any other comments? 922 02:18:39.110 --> 02:18:40.410 Community Hall: Commissioner Rao. 923 02:18:40.750 --> 02:18:46.189 Community Hall: Yeah, Chad, the west side is a very broad term as someone that lives there, so I don't know that we… 924 02:18:47.049 --> 02:18:51.039 Community Hall: Depends on what is west side, could be west above, could be west of the answer, but 925 02:18:51.219 --> 02:18:54.760 Community Hall: Let me just… Sort of, 926 02:18:54.940 --> 02:18:57.580 Community Hall: Offer up that the sidewalks would be. 927 02:18:57.900 --> 02:19:04.209 Community Hall: in general, a very good project. Are there sidewalks proposed on Schofield Drive? I know there's a lot of projects here, but the Schofield 928 02:19:04.730 --> 02:19:10.989 Community Hall: And the answer… If there's sidewalk absent, there's sidewalk proposed. Okay. 929 02:19:11.340 --> 02:19:16.510 Community Hall: So, in general, I'm supportive of sidewalks where feasible. 930 02:19:17.110 --> 02:19:21.369 Community Hall: Is there a distinction the report makes between where a sidewalk could be? 931 02:19:21.540 --> 02:19:27.109 Community Hall: constructed without… Loss of homeowner property versus where. 932 02:19:27.270 --> 02:19:34.040 Community Hall: We'd have to… Encroach into homeowner property. For example, the section of McClellan opposite Bonavista High 933 02:19:34.299 --> 02:19:38.759 Community Hall: Is that a section that you'd have to encroach into homeowner property? Is that a distinction that's 934 02:19:39.180 --> 02:19:56.419 Community Hall: No, again, that's a level of specificity that's beyond this report. We do make a distinction and make clear that there are certain neighborhoods within the city that have a self-designation as semi-rural, which exempts them from some sidewalk requirements. So, again, that… 935 02:19:56.640 --> 02:20:00.650 Community Hall: It's a level of detail that's beyond… This high-level document. 936 02:20:02.480 --> 02:20:11.169 Community Hall: Yeah, so in general, I'm supportive of sidewalk improvements, except where we may lose homeowner property, where I think we need to be a little bit more 937 02:20:11.310 --> 02:20:15.370 Community Hall: careful in applying judgment to those scenarios. I know it's a balancing act, but 938 02:20:15.850 --> 02:20:22.140 Community Hall: I would be supportive of sidewalks, more broadly, supportive of the pedestrian scale lighting. 939 02:20:22.310 --> 02:20:25.580 Community Hall: And obviously, much of the pedestrian improvements. 940 02:20:25.710 --> 02:20:30.740 Community Hall: Have staff clarified which of these pedestrian improvements would need 941 02:20:30.900 --> 02:20:32.580 Community Hall: No right turn on drag. 942 02:20:34.350 --> 02:20:51.339 Community Hall: No, again, this is such a high level plan. When you're looking at a specific intersection, that kind of detail would be learned once a project has been initiated and we have a consultant on board to look at what makes the most sense from an engineering perspective. 943 02:20:52.800 --> 02:20:57.279 Community Hall: However, out of the categories that you had, where you had, I think 944 02:20:58.420 --> 02:21:06.740 Community Hall: recommendations, right? Was that the category? Yeah, engineering recommended programs. I think you had certain programs around re-engineering. 945 02:21:07.020 --> 02:21:13.350 Community Hall: The intersections… I think it was, curb extensions at intersections. 946 02:21:13.720 --> 02:21:17.070 Community Hall: Would curb extensions imply a no-write turn on red? 947 02:21:17.620 --> 02:21:22.820 Community Hall: No, and we do have a programmatic recommendation to look at right on red, but I… 948 02:21:22.940 --> 02:21:34.030 Community Hall: The program recommendation, when you read the description, makes clear that radon red would only be allowed if it's clear that there's not going to be any negative impact to traffic operations. 949 02:21:35.090 --> 02:21:43.070 Community Hall: And pedestrian improvements generally don't trigger no right turn on red restrictions. 950 02:21:43.280 --> 02:21:46.209 Community Hall: As well. Generally, it's either because of… 951 02:21:46.470 --> 02:21:52.529 Community Hall: a particular bike facility, or other safety concerns not directly related to 952 02:21:52.680 --> 02:21:55.950 Community Hall: pedestrians. I don't think we've… I can't think 953 02:21:57.130 --> 02:22:03.619 Community Hall: Cupertino with the no-right turn on red due to pedestrians, except maybe Bub McClellan with the scramble phase. 954 02:22:04.570 --> 02:22:06.550 Community Hall: And how about Kobe extensions? 955 02:22:06.840 --> 02:22:12.610 Community Hall: they don't trigger right… no right on red, either. Would they impede right turns on red because of a curb extension? 956 02:22:13.960 --> 02:22:19.399 Community Hall: I mean, if a car is… if it's a single lane approach, and there is a car at the… 957 02:22:19.760 --> 02:22:34.359 Community Hall: at the intersection on a red light, waiting to proceed straight forward, but can't because the light's red, and there's a car behind him that wants to turn right, but physically can't because he's blocking the lane. 958 02:22:34.590 --> 02:22:38.879 Community Hall: He won't be able to turn right, but if the car that wants to turn right is at the front of the line. 959 02:22:39.530 --> 02:22:46.789 Community Hall: and it's a red light, he can turn right. So if we take the example of, let's just say, Stelling and Stevens Creek. 960 02:22:47.520 --> 02:22:53.710 Community Hall: That is an intersection today that allows for items on red, Traffic. 961 02:22:54.090 --> 02:22:56.790 Community Hall: Is able to make heightens on tread to the extent. 962 02:22:56.950 --> 02:23:06.830 Community Hall: That you don't have the limitation you described. Would the proposed projects under this engineering recommended programs impact Stelling and Stevens Creek's ability to make right turns on red? 963 02:23:09.740 --> 02:23:12.350 Community Hall: Again, we don't know. These are just concepts. 964 02:23:14.420 --> 02:23:23.839 Community Hall: And if there are impacts, they'll be presented before council, and council will make a judgment call on, is this okay, or is it not okay? 965 02:23:24.540 --> 02:23:32.610 Community Hall: Will every one of the projects listed here, I know there are several pages worth of projects in this list, will every one of them go back to Council for 966 02:23:32.930 --> 02:23:35.269 Community Hall: Recommendation and direction. 967 02:23:37.950 --> 02:23:50.200 Community Hall: As Matt mentioned earlier, you know, smaller projects that may only involve, you know, striping or minor improvements probably would not, because it would be clear that there would be no impacts. 968 02:23:50.450 --> 02:24:03.169 Community Hall: Anything larger than that, would probably necessarily go to Council, if only because there would be a budget request involved. So if you adopted a non-separated bike lane project. 969 02:24:03.410 --> 02:24:06.309 Community Hall: But it could be implemented using just striping. 970 02:24:06.560 --> 02:24:10.459 Community Hall: And it could result in loss of parking. Would that go to council? 971 02:24:11.570 --> 02:24:12.480 Community Hall: Yes. 972 02:24:14.250 --> 02:24:17.990 Community Hall: And that is not just a loss of parking, that's striping. 973 02:24:18.400 --> 02:24:34.259 Community Hall: causing a loss of parking, but it would still go to Council. It's not a CIP, though. But it probably would be a CIP, because a project like that would be of a scope where it would take more money than we could just accomplish with our operating budget, so it would most likely go to Council, but because of 974 02:24:34.980 --> 02:24:41.150 Community Hall: what we've put in the ATP about projects that would potentially have parking impacts would 975 02:24:41.790 --> 02:24:54.839 Community Hall: be evaluated at the 30% level and go to Council, this would fall under that category, and so we would go to Council. It doesn't matter if it's a concrete buffer, or a stripe buffer, or what the physical improvement is that triggers the loss of parking. 976 02:24:55.100 --> 02:24:57.110 Community Hall: Now, the projects that oh. 977 02:24:58.360 --> 02:25:11.260 Community Hall: the projects that have been completed recently, where we were able to do them as part of the pavement maintenance project, or program, those were the Cristo Rey bike lanes and the Rodriguez bike lanes. So… 978 02:25:11.500 --> 02:25:29.700 Community Hall: essentially existing conditions, but we realized, you know, we can make improvements there. Similarly, when looking at this plan, the projects that we would look at when resurfacing streets would be the Bike Boulevard project. So, where can we lay down those cheryl markings? That's what we're talking about. 979 02:25:33.000 --> 02:25:34.129 Community Hall: We'll deal more time. 980 02:25:34.510 --> 02:25:36.690 Community Hall: Are there any other comments, vice chair? 981 02:25:37.410 --> 02:25:41.879 Community Hall: So on Bollinger, where one side is San Jose. 982 02:25:42.160 --> 02:25:45.540 Community Hall: What's San Jose's position on? 983 02:25:45.810 --> 02:25:47.860 Community Hall: This bike lane project. 984 02:25:49.530 --> 02:25:55.430 Community Hall: We haven't had a conversation as part of this plan with them, but they were previously supportive of. 985 02:25:55.530 --> 02:26:07.740 Community Hall: the Safe Streets for All grant that, we were previously awarded, so I would imagine that we would have the same support in the future for a project like this, but again, that's a project that would 986 02:26:08.030 --> 02:26:11.410 Community Hall: Go through council approval and authorization. 987 02:26:11.930 --> 02:26:13.910 Community Hall: Okay, and on the, 988 02:26:14.920 --> 02:26:24.880 Community Hall: Oh, I just lost it. The very eastern side here, you have something going through Lawrence Middy Park and going across. 989 02:26:25.280 --> 02:26:27.709 Community Hall: Or under 280 or over 280. 990 02:26:28.770 --> 02:26:38.910 Community Hall: Yeah, that would be under 280 to connect to, Stevens Creek. So is that… that's an existing underpass, right? Yeah. You wouldn't… okay. 991 02:26:39.110 --> 02:26:48.590 Community Hall: And you don't go any further east into San Jose, I guess. Okay. Okay. 992 02:26:48.700 --> 02:26:50.790 Community Hall: Yeah, that's my questions, thank you. 993 02:26:51.770 --> 02:26:54.579 Community Hall: Any other comments or questions. Thank you. Chair. 994 02:26:55.230 --> 02:27:01.640 Community Hall: So I'm I'm looking at this bike network, and there's a fairly large number of buffered bike lane projects. 995 02:27:02.170 --> 02:27:05.610 Community Hall: But you only mentioned 3 where we could lose street parking, so… 996 02:27:05.880 --> 02:27:13.899 Community Hall: Are we saying the rest of them would narrow the lanes, and therefore we would not lose street parking? No, I was mistaken earlier. So, Bollinger would also be that, 997 02:27:14.090 --> 02:27:32.129 Community Hall: would go through the same process. When looking at other projects with impacts, non-parking related, I think it's Mariani and Lazineo, the center left turn lane there. In order to accommodate the bike lanes, we would need to eliminate those. And… 998 02:27:32.250 --> 02:27:35.490 Community Hall: as far as I can recall, those are all of the roadways. 999 02:27:36.940 --> 02:27:41.090 Community Hall: Okay, so which of these projects would lead to lane removal? 1000 02:27:42.080 --> 02:27:44.689 Community Hall: A lane reduction? None of them. 1001 02:27:47.130 --> 02:27:54.169 Community Hall: No late introductions. Well, we don't know. So Bollinger, again, potentially could. 1002 02:27:54.910 --> 02:28:06.919 Community Hall: But that would be part of a study, and similar to you know what we are going to look at under the safe streets for all. Grant that we we previously were awarded. We would look at several 1003 02:28:07.290 --> 02:28:10.159 Community Hall: Concepts, one of which would… 1004 02:28:10.510 --> 02:28:19.060 Community Hall: be removal of a lane, and that would go through a large public process and city council, and everybody would be aware and have a chance to 1005 02:28:19.380 --> 02:28:29.190 Community Hall: weigh in on it. So that's one potential project that would remove a lane, and then, as Matt just mentioned, Mariani near De Anza, if we were to 1006 02:28:29.640 --> 02:28:33.049 Community Hall: Put bike lanes on that street near the De Anza intersection. 1007 02:28:33.320 --> 02:28:46.259 Community Hall: There would be a… one of the… I think it's a left turn lane that would potentially need to be removed, just because there physically isn't enough space for a bike lane. It wouldn't be any parking removal, because there's no parking there now. 1008 02:28:46.990 --> 02:28:56.650 Community Hall: But it would be a turn lane that would potentially be removed, and that's also something that we would have to study, the capacity of the intersection. How about rainbow between Stelling and De Anza? 1009 02:29:00.700 --> 02:29:04.110 Community Hall: Is that… I think there's a… 1010 02:29:04.420 --> 02:29:06.809 Community Hall: Proposed buffer bike lane on Rainbow 1011 02:29:07.110 --> 02:29:13.230 Community Hall: Yeah, the consultant didn't communicate that there would be impacts on Rainbow. That's a pretty wide roadway. 1012 02:29:15.240 --> 02:29:21.550 Community Hall: Yeah, we could… we could most likely accommodate a buffer bike lane or something similar to that on Rainbow without 1013 02:29:21.760 --> 02:29:23.089 Community Hall: impacting the parking. 1014 02:29:24.420 --> 02:29:29.200 Community Hall: And let me caveat the question, without impacting parking and without lane reduction. 1015 02:29:32.450 --> 02:29:37.299 Community Hall: So… You know, you could obviously keep parking, but lose a lane, so… 1016 02:29:37.520 --> 02:29:39.680 Community Hall: We would not lose a lane. Right. 1017 02:29:40.640 --> 02:29:47.499 Community Hall: Yeah, so again, let me reiterate a point. Any project that has a parking or a lane reduction impact 1018 02:29:47.880 --> 02:29:50.800 Community Hall: Regardless of if we're talking about it right now. 1019 02:29:50.930 --> 02:29:56.219 Community Hall: if it's on the plan, and it has one of those impacts would would go to council with the impact. 1020 02:29:59.030 --> 02:30:00.860 Community Hall: And given stuff has 1021 02:30:01.220 --> 02:30:08.240 Community Hall: Seen all of the feedback that you've received through written comments and public comments and extended amount of feedback. Do you believe? 1022 02:30:08.380 --> 02:30:10.239 Community Hall: There is public sentiment that. 1023 02:30:10.830 --> 02:30:23.279 Community Hall: would like to not see lane reduction, or do you believe lane reduction is actually a good thing? I personally believe there's plenty of appetite for making these types of safety improvements around the city. 1024 02:30:23.430 --> 02:30:25.150 Community Hall: With little introductions. Yes. 1025 02:30:25.350 --> 02:30:32.459 Community Hall: Okay. If necessary. Again, we would do the outreach and go to council, but my own experience, probably Matt's as well. 1026 02:30:32.910 --> 02:30:41.079 Community Hall: is that I've I've not received much, if any negative feedback regarding lane reductions. We haven't done many of them. 1027 02:30:41.300 --> 02:30:49.430 Community Hall: But, and staff have seen… Similarly with parking removal. And staff have seen the feedback you've received in written comments and public comments. 1028 02:30:50.050 --> 02:30:54.700 Community Hall: Over the course of the various projects that you've had in the recent… Yes. 1029 02:30:55.200 --> 02:30:58.650 Community Hall: And you believe Lane Reduction is… Okay, thank you. 1030 02:30:59.460 --> 02:31:01.490 Community Hall: Any other comments vice chair. 1031 02:31:02.540 --> 02:31:06.570 Community Hall: So, the lane reduction, how many inches is each lane reduced? 1032 02:31:06.810 --> 02:31:14.320 Community Hall: Well, I think when we're talking about lane reduction, we mean lane removal. Oh, lane removal. Okay, I was thinking, like, on… 1033 02:31:14.680 --> 02:31:20.509 Community Hall: De Anza, I think the lanes got a little bit narrower, didn't they? Some of them got narrower, some of them got 1034 02:31:20.650 --> 02:31:24.260 Community Hall: Okay, and so how much narrower did those get? Like… 1035 02:31:24.370 --> 02:31:26.890 Community Hall: Half a foot or. It varies. 1036 02:31:27.140 --> 02:31:28.489 Community Hall: Some half a foot. 1037 02:31:29.220 --> 02:31:30.160 Community Hall: Okay. 1038 02:31:30.350 --> 02:31:36.149 Community Hall: And I'm looking back to Bollinger, so I'm thinking of Palo Alto, where 1039 02:31:36.420 --> 02:31:44.500 Community Hall: They kind of encourage people to use the Bike Boulevard on Bryant, which goes all the way into Mountain View, and discourage 1040 02:31:45.270 --> 02:31:49.539 Community Hall: kind of people from using the really busy street, like Alma Avenue. 1041 02:31:49.660 --> 02:31:56.300 Community Hall: So I'm just thinking, you know, Bollinger's really not that pleasant of a street to bike on if people know 1042 02:31:56.430 --> 02:32:05.060 Community Hall: that there's the alternative of the Bike Boulevard, including Recknart Creek, and Cala de Barcelona, and Barnhart, whatever. So do we… 1043 02:32:06.150 --> 02:32:16.599 Community Hall: Any education campaign to say, hey, you know, you really might want to think about, you know, using the bike boulevard instead of these major arterials. 1044 02:32:17.860 --> 02:32:24.420 Community Hall: That could be something that we would consider as part of a plan if we were going to do something like that, absolutely. 1045 02:32:25.000 --> 02:32:25.730 Community Hall: Okay. 1046 02:32:28.030 --> 02:32:37.959 Community Hall: Any other comments? Yes, Chair. Yes. So can staff talk about the time sensitivity of moving this through its process? Is there a 1047 02:32:38.290 --> 02:32:46.120 Community Hall: Is there any particular timing to making sure the grant is actually Received versus not received. 1048 02:32:47.050 --> 02:32:54.220 Community Hall: I would need to confirm with MTC staff to understand what our obligations are, under TDA3. 1049 02:32:54.350 --> 02:32:57.570 Community Hall: We had provider project timeline, 1050 02:32:58.310 --> 02:33:05.040 Community Hall: And I'm not familiar with MTC requirements as they relate to TDA3 projects. 1051 02:33:05.260 --> 02:33:19.840 Community Hall: And is this the final round of reviews you expect? I know it's never final, but do you… is it your belief that this is the final round and it goes to Council for final approval? Yes, absolutely. When we went to Council in April, 1052 02:33:20.160 --> 02:33:28.640 Community Hall: The feedback we got was, was very positive. The only recommendation that they had was regarding, 1053 02:33:29.290 --> 02:33:36.219 Community Hall: doing the the relative weighting the criteria based on what the commissions had recommended. 1054 02:33:36.500 --> 02:33:41.349 Community Hall: That was pretty much the only… the only comment. And we did that. 1055 02:33:41.760 --> 02:33:53.099 Community Hall: So, I'm confident that we've got a document that the Council is going to be pleased with. And is this already on the calendar for Council? I believe it's… 1056 02:33:53.270 --> 02:34:00.789 Community Hall: It's tentative, tentatively scheduled. These things have a way of shifting, but right now. Do you know what that date is? September. 1057 02:34:01.110 --> 02:34:04.020 Community Hall: 14th, I think. Okay, September 14th. 1058 02:34:04.240 --> 02:34:08.049 Community Hall: So that's less than 6 weeks away before we have a new 1059 02:34:08.390 --> 02:34:11.200 Community Hall: Council that comes in with an election. 1060 02:34:12.360 --> 02:34:21.540 Community Hall: Is that right? September 14th? That's correct. Okay. Is there any reason to do this 6 weeks sooner, rather than wait to see a new council and what they might… 1061 02:34:22.130 --> 02:34:23.699 Community Hall: And what the… 1062 02:34:24.080 --> 02:34:39.830 Community Hall: of what the direction might be from a new council six weeks later? Not that I can see. We've gone through a very intensive process of full discussions with commissions three times each. Council will be the third time. Extensive public outreach. 1063 02:34:39.980 --> 02:34:42.560 Community Hall: it's kind of time to 1064 02:34:43.770 --> 02:34:49.359 Community Hall: wrap this up and move on with delivering projects. But staff does observe that we could have 1065 02:34:50.240 --> 02:34:58.290 Community Hall: We do have two council members changing, and potentially, we could have three council members changing. Councils change, yes, but we we have work to do. 1066 02:34:58.920 --> 02:35:09.219 Community Hall: a project of this magnitude that lasts for a decade, do we believe should be adopted 6 months, I mean 6 weeks, before 3 or 5 council members could potentially be changed? 1067 02:35:10.140 --> 02:35:13.000 Community Hall: Again, my opinion is that we're ready to adopt. 1068 02:35:14.430 --> 02:35:20.080 Community Hall: Chair, I'm gonna recommend, maybe taking a motion, and then To facilitate further discussion. 1069 02:35:20.280 --> 02:35:35.319 Community Hall: Yes, I would like to make a motion that the Planning Commission adopt the draft resolution that recommending that the City Council adopt the active transportation plan, but with the additional note that Council 1070 02:35:35.420 --> 02:35:44.469 Community Hall: rethink or reevaluate projects that might impact evacuation risk in very high fire hazard zones? And that would be my motion. 1071 02:35:44.660 --> 02:35:47.829 Community Hall: I will second that for the purpose of discussion. 1072 02:35:49.590 --> 02:36:04.500 Community Hall: If I can just make a quick comment on that, as I think staff has repeatedly told us over and over and over again, these are concepts, these are not real projects yet, and when the actual projects come in front of us. 1073 02:36:04.680 --> 02:36:24.439 Community Hall: each project will be evaluated in terms of its impact on evacuation routes. I mean, I'm looking at a lot of the projects on the west side. You know, a buffered bike lane is just paint on the ground. It doesn't impact evacuation. So it seems premature to be 1074 02:36:24.440 --> 02:36:31.920 Community Hall: I don't know what we are, what we are asking the Council to do, because there's there's no, there's no specifics yet. 1075 02:36:32.130 --> 02:36:34.420 Community Hall: So… so that's… 1076 02:36:34.630 --> 02:36:47.000 Community Hall: that's… it feels premature to be making that kind of recommendation. I will answer that. So there is a proposal for a separated bike lane on Foothill Boulevard, which would narrow the lane 1077 02:36:47.030 --> 02:36:57.749 Community Hall: it would render the shoulder lane of that road unusable in the event of an evacuation. And for me, this is really just, I feel that we have a responsibility to 1078 02:36:57.800 --> 02:37:08.070 Community Hall: to acknowledge, you know, when we approve this entire plan, that… that we have noted that there is a risk with one of these recommendations that I… it's not that I, you know. 1079 02:37:09.050 --> 02:37:23.039 Community Hall: approve all of this, without even considering any other safety ramifications, because the truth is, I do think that we have a responsibility to acknowledge these things. So that is where I'm going with that. And the report… 1080 02:37:23.040 --> 02:37:31.510 Community Hall: does not really mention evacuation risk anywhere. And so that is why I am calling it out separately to 1081 02:37:31.740 --> 02:37:36.669 Community Hall: for the public record that we are aware that some of these projects have that impact. 1082 02:37:37.080 --> 02:37:39.249 Community Hall: And so would the, would the chair. 1083 02:37:39.510 --> 02:37:46.410 Community Hall: Accept a… A friendly amendment to consider. 1084 02:37:46.750 --> 02:37:49.210 Community Hall: Smaller sized motions, rather than… 1085 02:37:49.520 --> 02:37:57.190 Community Hall: Make the adoption as its own motion, but to consider smaller motions so we can deal with the individual changes that we would like to see. 1086 02:37:59.130 --> 02:38:09.449 Community Hall: how would you propose that working? That we just approve the entire thing in one motion, and then… I would just omit the adopt the mo… adopt the project part, and state the rest of your motion. 1087 02:38:10.220 --> 02:38:27.069 Community Hall: So I believe you read out your motion. If you just left out the adopt part, then we would just tackle that one piece, and then we could do a few more. Alright. So I have a little different comment. So 1st of all, I wish there was a like button, because I really, I really did think your your comment was appropriate. And 1088 02:38:27.180 --> 02:38:32.050 Community Hall: I wonder whether if we make a recommendation, I think that 1089 02:38:34.320 --> 02:38:49.819 Community Hall: I think that would be would be useful is in the context of how this decision of how the recommendation is made. If there was a scoring mechanism that measured, you know, measured these projects against the evacuation routes. 1090 02:38:49.910 --> 02:39:01.470 Community Hall: but that that not be something that has to be done before it comes to Council. You know, so I think the recommendation is you would have a report like that. That would be something that would come into consideration when the projects actually move forward. 1091 02:39:03.080 --> 02:39:10.519 Community Hall: it, I think that is important, and with all due respect to Commissioner Linskog, I think it is important enough to recognize that we 1092 02:39:10.750 --> 02:39:24.170 Community Hall: you know, that we wanted to make that recommendation. Yeah, no, I… to clarify my comment, I don't mean to say vacation is not important, and I think your recommendation is absolutely correct. So I think what I was reacting to was the… 1093 02:39:24.240 --> 02:39:39.650 Community Hall: the wording that said to maybe, you know, strike projects that are on the west side, but if we have a motion that says, you know, add evacuation routes as a criteria, in evaluating these projects, I'm 100% in agreement with that. Yeah. 1094 02:39:40.190 --> 02:39:46.830 Community Hall: So I wouldn't. I wouldn't recommend that we change. Ask them to change the weighting that was done to date. 1095 02:39:47.090 --> 02:39:50.600 Community Hall: Just that there be a recommendation that they develop an addendum. 1096 02:39:51.260 --> 02:39:55.250 Community Hall: I would be open to that, so I will amend the motion to 1097 02:39:55.400 --> 02:40:04.770 Community Hall: Let me think about this. That council consider an addendum waiting that considers the 1098 02:40:05.710 --> 02:40:10.329 Community Hall: impact to evacuation risk of any project. I'll second that. 1099 02:40:10.710 --> 02:40:16.999 Community Hall: And so, chair, that would send it right back to the drawing board to do more work, to add an addendum, is that right? 1100 02:40:19.180 --> 02:40:23.930 Community Hall: No, I think… I mean, what… You know, within our… 1101 02:40:25.130 --> 02:40:36.640 Community Hall: appendices, one of the ones… I don't know if it would be the one where we talk about the 30% design, or a different one. We'd have to look and see the appropriate place. We could add language somewhere. 1102 02:40:36.820 --> 02:40:44.430 Community Hall: to that effect, that, you know, every project, regardless, I mean, even if they don't have parking impacts, I mean, any project 1103 02:40:44.670 --> 02:40:50.579 Community Hall: Would also be considered in light of impacts to, you know, potential evacuation. 1104 02:40:50.900 --> 02:40:54.069 Community Hall: routes. So, kind of like an overlay, right? 1105 02:40:54.740 --> 02:40:59.650 Community Hall: Yeah, we'll we'll figure out how to do it before we get to the Council. Yeah. 1106 02:40:59.780 --> 02:41:06.429 Community Hall: But yeah, I don't, I don't know, I don't think you even need to complete that before. I think it just needs to be. 1107 02:41:07.300 --> 02:41:24.400 Community Hall: you present the report as you have today, you know, with whatever changes that might come up here, but as it is today, with the intent to develop a scoring system that would become a compliment, you know, become part of this recommendation down the line. Sorry, are you recommending that 1108 02:41:24.530 --> 02:41:25.850 Community Hall: That an actual… 1109 02:41:26.150 --> 02:41:36.700 Community Hall: Criteria be added that provides a particular score in terms of. Impact to. Evacuation because I don't know how that would ever be. 1110 02:41:37.180 --> 02:41:39.010 Community Hall: Able to be evaluated. 1111 02:41:39.460 --> 02:41:46.609 Community Hall: Quantitatively, I think… I think it would be more of a quantitative discussion once we consider a project that 1112 02:41:46.820 --> 02:41:55.879 Community Hall: you know, is this something that could affect evacuation routes? And how do we determine that impact? But I don't know how it would be included as a criteria. Okay. 1113 02:41:56.110 --> 02:42:02.310 Community Hall: Well, I mean, that's interesting, Reb, because I would think that what that would be is, if you have a proposed project. 1114 02:42:02.410 --> 02:42:11.280 Community Hall: Then there would be an overlay over the mechanism. You know the pathways that people believe would be the evacuation routes, and then then you measure the impact. So 1115 02:42:11.400 --> 02:42:15.979 Community Hall: You know, so realistically, something that's way on the east side probably doesn't have 1116 02:42:16.690 --> 02:42:28.609 Community Hall: doesn't have a scoring effect, whereas, you know, the change on Foothill, you know, on the southern part of Foothill would be… Yeah, it would probably only be a small handful of projects that… Yeah. 1117 02:42:28.620 --> 02:42:45.770 Community Hall: Yeah, yeah. I, I think, I think the important part really is, I, I, I very agree very much with your sentiment that, that this is at a point where it's, it's ready to, to be, to go. So I didn't, I wouldn't want this to be a barrier, but at the same time, you know, I think that 1118 02:42:46.010 --> 02:42:55.990 Community Hall: you'll certainly get back to the Council. You're going to have the same question. You know, if if you're talking about changes, you know, making a significant change on Stilling, or you know, on Bob. 1119 02:42:56.120 --> 02:43:03.389 Community Hall: or on Foothill, then it would be, have you considered what the evacuation effect is? Sure. 1120 02:43:05.460 --> 02:43:15.340 Community Hall: Great. So are we ready to maybe have a vote on this? No, no, we are not ready to have a vote. The motion was still a discussion stage. I'm not ready to have a vote. 1121 02:43:15.850 --> 02:43:21.480 Community Hall: So, could staff talk about the changes around Finch Avenue? Around Pupertino High, there's a number of changes where 1122 02:43:21.730 --> 02:43:25.189 Community Hall: Separated bikeways are proposed. How does it affect the school drop? 1123 02:43:25.610 --> 02:43:29.320 Community Hall: Where people do pause by the curb to drop people off. 1124 02:43:29.610 --> 02:43:43.990 Community Hall: without impeding traffic behind them. Again, this is just a concept, something similar to the Lawson Bikeway project. We would work closely with the high school district to deliver the project to minimize impacts to, you know. 1125 02:43:44.460 --> 02:43:51.500 Community Hall: Traffic circulation at pick up and drop off, and it's a pure concept, so this, we're talking about unknowns. 1126 02:43:54.470 --> 02:44:01.839 Community Hall: So, more broadly, how do we believe the school drop will be affected around any of our schools from the proposed? We don't know. 1127 02:44:02.370 --> 02:44:03.990 Community Hall: Okay. We would look at that. 1128 02:44:05.550 --> 02:44:07.259 Community Hall: Do we have any… 1129 02:44:07.460 --> 02:44:10.729 Community Hall: preliminary assessment of what the impacts might be? No. No. 1130 02:44:11.270 --> 02:44:11.960 Community Hall: Okay. 1131 02:44:14.790 --> 02:44:18.530 Community Hall: Sure, I'm gonna make a… Substitute motion. 1132 02:44:19.560 --> 02:44:29.219 Community Hall: And I'm gonna make a substitute motion that the project be… excluded from The proposed… Separated bike lanes. 1133 02:44:29.580 --> 02:44:31.810 Community Hall: And… the… 1134 02:44:32.000 --> 02:44:37.770 Community Hall: streets that were specified that could lose parking. I believe there were 3 streets that were mentioned. Sorry, I… 1135 02:44:37.990 --> 02:44:50.299 Community Hall: I think that what we had wanted to do. If if you're going to make a substitute motion on an entirely different topic, I think we should have motions on on individual items. Let's get this motion done, and then we'll move on to your 1136 02:44:50.300 --> 02:45:04.609 Community Hall: separate motion next. It sounds like it's on a very different topic, if that's okay. That would probably be okay, if you can read your motion one more time. The motion was not related to the overall adoption of the, ATP. It was that Council, 1137 02:45:05.540 --> 02:45:14.420 Community Hall: Consider… A, an additional Well, actually, sorry. Let me think about this. So after our discussion, it was 1138 02:45:15.180 --> 02:45:22.620 Community Hall: This would be a motion that… Council… Consider… 1139 02:45:22.910 --> 02:45:29.309 Community Hall: an additional, is it… did we call it, like, a matrix, or just a… it's not a matrix, it's a… 1140 02:45:29.410 --> 02:45:32.909 Community Hall: How would you describe what we discussed? I would… 1141 02:45:33.190 --> 02:45:51.239 Community Hall: I think the best place to put what you were talking about would be in the project impact assessment guidelines, where we make clear that for certain projects with those kinds of sensitivities, that they undergo some sort of evacuation route analysis as part of, you know, the project delivery process. 1142 02:45:51.790 --> 02:45:53.640 Community Hall: Okay. So we can build that out. 1143 02:45:54.980 --> 02:46:00.000 Community Hall: Okay, so… My motion would be that we 1144 02:46:00.260 --> 02:46:05.160 Community Hall: Add on a modification to the… 1145 02:46:05.310 --> 02:46:14.259 Community Hall: Active transportation plan that factors in the impact of evacuation risk in very high fire hazard zones. 1146 02:46:14.680 --> 02:46:16.020 Community Hall: That's my motion. 1147 02:46:16.190 --> 02:46:17.530 Community Hall: I'll second that. 1148 02:46:17.960 --> 02:46:21.350 Community Hall: and city clerk. May we please have a vote Thank you. 1149 02:46:22.730 --> 02:46:26.830 Community Hall: Can I ask? So you were not. You were not adopting the 1150 02:46:27.520 --> 02:46:39.289 Community Hall: the proposal is as submitted. I thought that would be a separate. Yeah. So this is a this is an addendum, not. Yes, we're we're voting on the addendum. Okay, yes, thank you. 1151 02:46:40.060 --> 02:46:41.170 Community Hall: Do you understand? 1152 02:46:41.890 --> 02:46:42.550 Community Hall: Okay. 1153 02:46:49.130 --> 02:46:55.700 Community Hall: The motion carries unanimously. All right, thank you. And now, Commissioner Rao, you may make also addendum motion. 1154 02:46:56.280 --> 02:47:02.530 Community Hall: And I want to reiterate, you know, supportive of much of what is in the report for 1155 02:47:02.800 --> 02:47:06.539 Community Hall: The sidewalk improvements, I think the sidewalks are critical. Safety… 1156 02:47:06.910 --> 02:47:13.980 Community Hall: in the absence of sidewalk is a huge issue. I walk on Schofield, I walk on many of these sidewalks that you mentioned, all called A. 1157 02:47:14.360 --> 02:47:16.470 Community Hall: Hotel. 1158 02:47:17.330 --> 02:47:20.879 Community Hall: McClellan, it is scary to walk on some of these 1159 02:47:21.070 --> 02:47:23.930 Community Hall: Now, we may not be able to lose 1160 02:47:24.360 --> 02:47:28.109 Community Hall: Land that belongs to homeowners, so I would. 1161 02:47:28.610 --> 02:47:33.980 Community Hall: I would make a motion that we exclude from the report. 1162 02:47:34.770 --> 02:47:38.090 Community Hall: Any recommended projects that impact? 1163 02:47:39.940 --> 02:47:41.310 Community Hall: Street parking. 1164 02:47:42.350 --> 02:47:43.720 Community Hall: Lane reduction. 1165 02:47:44.550 --> 02:47:49.030 Community Hall: And… Introduce separated bike lanes. 1166 02:47:50.090 --> 02:47:51.499 Community Hall: So, 3 things. 1167 02:47:51.680 --> 02:47:54.919 Community Hall: street parking, Late reduction. 1168 02:47:55.150 --> 02:48:11.409 Community Hall: And separated bike lanes. Can I just clarify, do we have the authority as a Planning Commission to exclude, or are you recommending that we recommend that Council excludes? Yes. The… the motion would be to recommend that Council exclude from the report 1169 02:48:11.510 --> 02:48:19.290 Community Hall: Any projects that impact street parking, cause lane reduction, Or involve separated micros. 1170 02:48:20.930 --> 02:48:21.930 Community Hall: I'll second that. 1171 02:48:22.230 --> 02:48:22.900 Community Hall: Okay. 1172 02:48:25.090 --> 02:48:31.049 Community Hall: Could we have a word? I would just comment here that, you know, we have talked about the fact that those were 1173 02:48:31.500 --> 02:48:36.629 Community Hall: any any project in that category would come back for a evaluation. 1174 02:48:36.760 --> 02:48:40.459 Community Hall: You know, as part of the CIP. So I don't think this is necessary. 1175 02:48:40.920 --> 02:48:43.680 Community Hall: Do we have the vote? Yeah, okay. 1176 02:48:51.450 --> 02:48:56.580 Community Hall: The motion fails, with Chair Kosolcheron and Commissioner Rao voting yes. 1177 02:48:57.600 --> 02:49:03.010 Community Hall: All right, and so I… do you have any other motions? Yes, I'm going to attempt to… 1178 02:49:03.240 --> 02:49:05.799 Community Hall: Try and see if we can do this differently. 1179 02:49:06.630 --> 02:49:10.140 Community Hall: I'm going to propose a motion that we exclude 1180 02:49:10.770 --> 02:49:14.750 Community Hall: Could… could staff help me out here? What were the three streets I had? Blaney, Mill 1181 02:49:14.950 --> 02:49:16.460 Community Hall: And what was the third you had? 1182 02:49:17.160 --> 02:49:23.500 Community Hall: We had Blaney, Miller, Stelling, and Bollinger all with potential impacts. 1183 02:49:24.270 --> 02:49:29.949 Community Hall: As well as… the center turn lanes on Mariani and Lozaneo. 1184 02:49:30.800 --> 02:49:31.730 Community Hall: Okay. 1185 02:49:32.990 --> 02:49:44.759 Community Hall: So I'm going to make a motion that we exclude the projects that would potentially impact parking on Blaney, on Miller, Bollinger, and Stelling from this report. 1186 02:49:44.870 --> 02:49:48.610 Community Hall: Or… Recommend that Council exclude these from the report. 1187 02:49:48.790 --> 02:49:50.019 Community Hall: Do I have a second? 1188 02:49:52.630 --> 02:49:58.730 Community Hall: I, I think I, I have a sense of how, Commission will vote on this. I mean, I will, I will second it. 1189 02:49:59.210 --> 02:50:01.130 Community Hall: Okay, could we have a word, please? 1190 02:50:12.190 --> 02:50:16.420 Community Hall: The motion fails with Chair Gasol-Schron and Commissioner Rao voting yes. 1191 02:50:18.100 --> 02:50:19.000 Community Hall: So. 1192 02:50:19.570 --> 02:50:31.189 Community Hall: Can I make a motion now? Go ahead. I'm gonna make a motion that the Planning Commission adopt the draft resolution recommending that the City Council adopt the Active Transportation Plan as recommended by staff. I'll second. 1193 02:50:32.260 --> 02:50:45.229 Community Hall: All right. May we have a vote, please. Chair. I thought we were doing mini motions to work through the recommendations in the doc. We haven't finished through that yet, so maybe consider some substitute motion here. I would like to 1194 02:50:45.560 --> 02:50:48.059 Community Hall: You'll know after we do this vote. Yeah, exactly. 1195 02:50:48.390 --> 02:50:50.320 Community Hall: Let's go after the chase. Let's 1196 02:50:50.720 --> 02:50:56.260 Community Hall: Well, we could have a substitute motion if you had a second, so we haven't made a motion, we don't have a second 1197 02:50:56.620 --> 02:51:13.429 Community Hall: I think the motion was seconded right? Vice chair, you know, maybe for to help this be a little bit more efficient. If you could discuss what other substitute motions you were thinking of making, because I I think I have a sense of of how they they might end up, and I 1198 02:51:13.540 --> 02:51:15.209 Community Hall: you know, rather… 1199 02:51:15.310 --> 02:51:28.009 Community Hall: Yes, I would want to explicitly make a motion here, just so we have on the record how we stand on these various streets and neighborhood impacts that we are going to be causing, and what our positions on these are. 1200 02:51:28.230 --> 02:51:36.920 Community Hall: And so, with that in mind, I would like to make a substitute motion that we exclude… The… Proposed. 1201 02:51:37.290 --> 02:51:40.460 Community Hall: bike lane project around Finch Avenue. 1202 02:51:40.630 --> 02:51:47.730 Community Hall: and the related streets around Cupertino High. You know, I understand where you're going with this, and I, you know, I… 1203 02:51:47.890 --> 02:51:54.770 Community Hall: I think… Out of… Respect for the others on this commission and their time, you know, I think. 1204 02:51:54.990 --> 02:52:10.839 Community Hall: I think we know that we don't have consensus on this. We've already had two failed motions, and so I think I'd rather just, I think the point has been made. I'm making the motion, do we have a second? If we do not have a second, let the minutes reflect the motion was made and no second exists. 1205 02:52:12.330 --> 02:52:17.859 Community Hall: Is there a second for the motion that we not impact the streets around Cupertino High? 1206 02:52:18.380 --> 02:52:23.990 Community Hall: With a proposed Bike lane that may impact school drop and pick. 1207 02:52:24.590 --> 02:52:26.090 Community Hall: Is there a second for that? 1208 02:52:26.910 --> 02:52:32.289 Community Hall: Yeah, like I said, you know, I think I would normally second it. I just, you know, I… 1209 02:52:32.910 --> 02:52:42.070 Community Hall: I can read the sentiment of this commission, so… Okay. I will hope the city clerk reflects the motion occurred, and the motion failed. Thank you. 1210 02:52:43.900 --> 02:52:46.019 Community Hall: Are we ready to vote. Yes, we are. 1211 02:52:47.130 --> 02:52:52.179 Community Hall: And could the chair, once again, repeat the motion on the table that we're voting on? 1212 02:52:52.670 --> 02:52:57.039 Community Hall: I believe the motion was just to approve the draft resolution. 1213 02:52:57.410 --> 02:53:03.000 Community Hall: That's adopted or is presented. Adopt the draft resolution. Adopt the draft resolution. Yes. 1214 02:53:06.840 --> 02:53:09.660 Community Hall: The motion carried with Commissioner Rao voting no. 1215 02:53:10.120 --> 02:53:16.970 Community Hall: All right. Thank you very much. So I think that concludes our agenda items, and the meeting is adjourned.