HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC 06-23-2026 Youtube and Zoom TranscriptWEBVTT
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Welcome to the Planning Commission… hang on,
I'm sorry, let me…
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Mute, nice. Okay, welcome to the Planning
Commission meeting for June 23rd, 2026. Please rise for the Pledge of
Allegiance.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Thank you very much. City Clerk, may we
please have the roll call?
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Commissioner Feng? Present. Commissioner
Linsk?
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Michelle Martin (Community Hall): Here. Commissioner Rao? Here. Vice
Chair Scharf? Here. Chair Casolchron? Here.
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Michelle Martin (Community Hall): All right.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And we will now move on to the approval of
the minutes. Do we have a motion to approve the May 26, 2026 Planning
Commission minutes? So moved. Oh, okay.
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Michelle Martin (Community Hall): I'll second.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): May we have a vote?
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): M.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Do you have a commissioner phone? Do not
have? No, I… Okay, no.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Sorry.
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Community Hall: The motion carries with Commissioner Fund.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): abstaining.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Alright, we will move on to oral
communications. Do we have any oral communications today, City Clerk?
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): We have one speaker in person and one hand
raised on Zoom. Our first speaker is Jonathan Chang. Welcome, Jonathan.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Good evening, Chair, Vice Chair,
Commissioners, and Staff. My name is Jonathan Cheng.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Today, speaking on behalf of Alpha XRE
Capital, we are a local residential infill developer, working on many
projects throughout Silicon Valley, and focused on delivering high-
quality missing middle housing to all the communities that we work in.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Partly here today because our company is one
of the ones mentioned in the staff report as it pertains… Oh, pardon.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Sorry, so this is actually a comment on the
agenda item, so if you don't mind please making this comment on Agenda
item 2, that would be excellent. Sure, thank you. So that'll be in a few
minutes. Okay, sure. Thank you.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay, and we have one hand raised on Zoom,
Jennifer Griffin. Welcome, Jennifer.
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jenny Griffin: Can you all hear me?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Yes, we can hear you.
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jenny Griffin: Okay, get out. Thank you. I'm almost over my cold. So,
thank you very much. It's good to see you all. As summer begins, I just
wanted to pass along
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jenny Griffin: a few comments about being safe on the road. I drive over
to Santa Cruz frequently on 17, if you all were not aware. You're
probably tired of hearing about it when we go over to my mother's. And I…
believe me, the things that I see on Highway 17 would scare any
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jenny Griffin: parent to death over the safety issues. First of all, make
sure that your child, when they are in the car, or anyone in your family,
that they wear their seatbelt. We have had numerable
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jenny Griffin: accidents where People are thrown out of the car when
there are accidents or collisions.
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jenny Griffin: Lives can be saved if they wear their seatbelt. You will
have people that will argue with you that it's safer to be thrown clear
of the car, but I have a family member who, when he was a teenager, was
actually in a car crash at 17 and 1,
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jenny Griffin: was thrown out of the car and broke his leg. Now, it's
debatable, but I would say if you guys are going on the road.
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jenny Griffin: Buckle up. The other thing is, it is legal in California
for motorcycles to split lanes. Please, if you have motorcycles coming up
behind you on highways, 280, 101, 17,
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jenny Griffin: Let them go by, don't freak out, don't turn on your turn
signal, don't go into the adjacent lane.
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jenny Griffin: I have two brothers that had motorcycles, rode them for
many years. They know what they're doing.
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jenny Griffin: Defer to them. Do not cause an obstacle that is going to
endanger their lives. Believe me, on 17, I see people who are startled,
yes, when the motorcycle comes up, and we often have 2 to 3 to 5 riders.
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jenny Griffin: But they will do some of the most bizarre things, the
cars. They turn in front of them, they stop, you just… I know it's
difficult.
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jenny Griffin: But you hear the noise. I had to train myself, because I
am… I get startled, probably from the 1989 earthquake. You sit there, you
hear a motorcycle, you let them go by.
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jenny Griffin: Give them space, too. I see people on 17, the motorcycle
goes by, they get in the lane in front of them.
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jenny Griffin: and the person tailgates the motorcycle. That is a
disaster waiting to happen. Please do not tailgate motorcycles. If you do
not drive in the blind spot of a truck.
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jenny Griffin: The truck… the truckers know, and they will wave you on if
you're in their blind spot. The other thing is, parents on motorized
vehicles, or anyone, don't put children on the handlebars, and…
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Barbara, that is your time.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): We have no speakers in person, and no hands
raised on Zoom, Chair.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you very much.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): So then we will move on to our study session,
which is on the housing element update to add capacity at all income
levels. And we will now have a report from our planning department.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you, Chair, members of the
Planning Commission,
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Tonight, we want to kind of kick off.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): what is a big discussion more informally than
usual. We plan on having several more, so…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think the goal of tonight's
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I would say discussion more than just a
formal presentation, is to kind of touch on big picture items, recap the
housing element for people who aren't familiar, though I assume most of
you are.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And to try to start getting some direction
for how we proceed with, again, amending the housing site's inventory.
So…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): With that, we can kick off the presentation.
I don't know if the video is showing it yet.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): There we go.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, so as I said, we're going to provide
some background mostly on the housing element process. The housing
element was adopted about 2 years ago.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And then get into, essentially, what has
happened since that time, because we've had a lot of residential
development activity,
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): In the last couple of years.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And then, really, why we're here in terms of
updating the priority housing sites inventory, the reason for that, and
how that could best be approached.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Alright, this is probably the most familiar
side in the city the last 4 or 5 years, but this is essentially the
city's arena for the sixth cycle.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): that, HCD and the state essentially assigned
to the city of Cupertino. So, a lot of you, I know, are familiar with
this, but…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The things that jump out again is not only
the big number, the 4588 number of units, which was about 4 times… well,
over 4 times more than the previous cycle, but…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): that 57.5% of the units fell into the very
low to moderate income categories. You had almost the same number of
units in the very low and low as you did in market rate.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, not only the total number, but just the…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): the feasibility of getting those lower and
moderate income builds was really primarily a challenge. The note below,
again, I think you're familiar with that in addition to the 4588,
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): HCD had recommended that you provide a buffer
of additional units of between 15 and 30%. While this was not required,
it particularly helped in the lower income levels.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, the city did do that.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And get into the… we actually had a buffer of
28% overall, but we'll get into that in a little more detail.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But on this next slide, again, I wanted to
show that
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): the majority of the city's RHNA requirements
fell into the lower and moderate income categories, but when you look at
the feasibility of BMR production.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Cupertino, like other cities, is hampered to
a very large degree that your requirements for BMR housing, in this case,
ours is 15% for rental housing, 20% for ownership housing.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Creates a very large gap, unless you're
fortunate enough to get a high percentage of 100% affordable projects.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You essentially find yourself in a position
that your housing element can become certified, and then as development
rolls in.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): you're not meeting those estimates, and this
is largely what has happened to Cupertino, because we've had 15, 16
development projects come in, so…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): essentially the good fortune of getting and
approving housing, which this body and the City Council has, has altered
those estimates. So we're now looking at what to do with the site
inventory.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, so the top row on this, again, is the
city's RHNA, and the total capacity is where we ended up through our
approved housing element. So that's actually what we did upzone.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Where we stood in May of 2024. So…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): As a lot of people noted, we overshot the
RENA by 28%, or a little over 1,300 units.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But I think one thing at that time in the
race to get the housing element certified that
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): When we had talked about the buffer.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): the issue really comes in by income category.
So, while overall we had a 28% buffer.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): when you look at the very low, low, and
moderate, we didn't have much of one in those categories, so I think the…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): very low, low comes out to something like 8%,
and moderate 12%. So we knew going in.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That in those areas, we had a pretty slim
margin.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Some of you may remember, too, that the week
of the City Council adopting the housing element.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We had a site that had been on our list that
was going to provide 372 units on Stelling and Homestead.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I forget the number, but a lot of those were
low and moderate income. The property owner essentially pulled out at the
last minute, asked to not be included, so that was something that
impacted the low and moderate income much more, and was right at the
point where we were being certified, so there wasn't a lot of time.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): To go back and address that issue.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, I think what this means, though, is a lot
of us expected we could find ourselves at a point of revisiting the
inventory, it's just happened sooner.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Because you've actually approved housing.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Just to recap again, the, six-cycle housing
element, we had 58 individual properties. A lot of those were contiguous,
so it came out to about 35 individual development sites.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): 69%, almost 70, or, set at a density of
between 50 and 80 units per acre, so…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): for what was largely a suburban community
like Cupertino, this was a big change. You didn't really have
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): very many suburban-type sites. The other 15
were in the 20 to 35 range to really address the townhome demand.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So that only leaves 3 sites that were below
that 20-unit threshold. This was a much more…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): urban plan that I think the city met the
intent of what HCD wanted. We really were not looking at doing too many
low-density projects.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And, the last bullet, too, the sites were
almost evenly divided between mixed-use properties, and residential only.
The mixed-use were largely those along Stevens Creek and De Anza.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And they probably made up a little under 60%
of the total units. This is, I think it's Table B4 of the Housing
Elements Supplement, if you want to look at that in detail.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, so what has happened in the last 2
years?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We've received over 16 housing development
applications, and as I touched on, is some of these we had in the latter
process leading up to certification.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Developers interested in pursuing townhomes
on Housing Elements sites submitted SB330 applications. So, we had sites
that would, say, have a 50 unit per acre minimum.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And they came in around 20.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So we had several projects, one of
Summerhills, Toll Brothers, dividends on Stevens Creek, and the…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Stevens Creek Office Center behind Whole
Foods, all of these were examples of that, so…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You not only got far fewer total units at
that density, but you got a lower proportion of affordability than what
we had anticipated.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): One other thing to notice, since we've pretty
much gotten… only townhomes have been approved, or a townhome density,
and we only have one higher density project on file.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That even when we're getting things in the 20
to 35 range, they're always right around 20.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And for sites that we've seen that are not
priority housing element sites, but allow development, that's usually in
the teens. So, 20, while it's a minimum on paper, it's almost operating
as a maximum.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The second-to-last bullet where it says we
have one project that's utilizing state density bonus, that's under
review. That is at Stevens Creek and Finch. It is a housing element site.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And that's really only the anomaly we've
seen, where it's not only not townhomes, it's a very dense project. We're
talking over 130 units per acre, so…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): among our Housing Elements sites, that is the
only one we've seen in application that's exceeding the estimates. All
the others are under that, with the other exception of the Mary Avenue
and the teacher housing site north of Valco.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): they came in right on what we expected, and
those were the only two 100% affordable projects. We have no others that
are 100% affordable.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, I think one of the themes we're seeing in
this is you're coming in around 20, or you're coming in 5 or 6 times
that.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): What is Government Code Section 65863? I
think people tend to refer to this very commonly as no net loss
legislation.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): This first, was adopted in 2002 to
essentially look at cities not losing the potential capacity in their
housing element.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): It really did not develop teeth or be
anything that was actively monitored until you had Senate Bill 166, 9
years ago.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And the big change with that is it required
cities that anytime you took an action on a priority housing site, not
housing projects as a whole.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But you needed to revisit your housing
element and see how that site was developing in relation to what your
housing element anticipated.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, it's…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): What it really did, in a sense, along with
annual reporting, is made your housing element much more of a living
document.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I know I had worked in planning departments
where your housing element update was seen as something you did every 5
years or 8 years, and then you put it away on a shelf.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You just don't have the opportunity to do
that anymore, so you're constantly reassessing and re-evaluating, and
that's kind of what we're kicking off tonight.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): What must cities do to comply if they find
that they are not developing at the density and the density by income
category that they anticipated?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah, you're really faced with looking at
other sites to identify, to provide additional housing, or upzoning
existing sites you already have identified in your housing element.
You've got to find more units.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And when you're in this category, I think, as
we showed in the earlier slides, it's really… we're affected mostly by
low and moderate income. We've got an ample supply of market-rate housing
identified in the housing element.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, it's really being able to identify sites
that will get you out of this situation and keep you out of it.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): when you identify a potential shortfall, you
have 180 days to address this issue under state law. I've said this
before, I think that's not only impractical, it's probably impossible,
because you actually have to upzone properties, which means you're
subject to CEQA. So, that said, that is still state law, so it means you
have to get working on this as quickly as possible.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And again, the strategy is probably a
combination of new sites and upzoning existing sites, to the extent you
can do that further.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): City's current status, when we, when the City
Council approved the Toll Brother project right at the end of last year
in December.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That put us at, I think it was, like, a 2-
unit deficit in the moderate income category, put it just under.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So that was where we initially had to first
look at this. It did not affect the lower income category until a couple
of months later.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): On the third modification for the RISE, or
Valco's project, where
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): There was a fairly significant hit to the
anticipated, low-income housing.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That's really the area I think the city needs
to concentrate on while we're not gonna get into detailed numbers
tonight.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Because the city has approved a significant
amount of townhome projects, and all of those have provided 20% moderate
income.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): By incorporating the non-housing element
sites into the housing element, we're already going to have addressed the
moderate income shortfall, because we've gotten much more total units
built at that density level and at the moderate income level.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, so we get to a slightly more
complicated table where the upper rows you have seen before
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But what we're looking at here in this table,
importantly, does not factor in anything that is not already in the
housing element. So at the bottom, where you see a minus 22 for moderate.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That is not taking into account sites we have
approved development on that will be providing moderates. So, that number
is not going to remain negative now, if you were to add those back in.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But, essentially, again, the top column shows
our RENA, the second shows what we had through our housing element.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And then the last 3 you get,
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): the one with the parenthetical B in there is
what was anticipated for those sites that were either in the pipeline or
have had development subsequently entitled?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And then what did we actually get? And what
you notice in the row beneath that is… is almost always less than what
you anticipated.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Which is why we're now looking at having to
deal particularly in the low income.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): What are we gonna do about getting that
number out of the red?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, which leads us to site selection
strategies, and this kind of kicks us back to where we were 4 years ago
with the housing element.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): As I said earlier, we only had 2 of the 58
properties that were providing 100% affordable housing. Mary Avenue has
been approved. It is also in litigation.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The teacher housing project, I would
anticipate coming to a hearing in probably the next couple of months. So
those are really the only two where we have 100% affordability. The
others are going to be
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You know, a range which the greater density
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): the assumption on HCD's part is that you're
going to get more affordability, so…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): If you look in detail in our housing element,
the sites that were listed at 50 units per more per acre.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The assumption was about 40-42% of those
units would be low-income, and about 15% would be moderate, which comes
out to about 57%, tied into our RENA.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Again, our problem becomes you have a 15% BMR
requirement for rental, 20% for ownership, and anything that exceeds a
20% program is something HCD can consider a hindrance to housing
development, so you can't really just modify your BMR ordinance to try to
address this.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And, say, make it 40%.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): One thing to think about, though, is that the
actual rent, whether deed-restricted or not, if you have an affordable by
design project, which, again, we're anticipating we do have a project
like that that is under review.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You do get credit for units that actually
rent at affordable prices, which…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): in Cupertino and Santa Clara County can be in
the $4,000 to $4,500 a month range.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah, though that's tougher to do with a
townhome that's selling for $2.5 million.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, that's one thing to bear in mind, is
while our BMR program can't possibly make up the difference.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Having more affordable by design studio, one-
bedroom, particularly rentals, that can be something we get credit for.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Current development pattern, this isn't news
to anybody at this point, is a lot of townhome projects, and, you know,
these are very often
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): 1,800 to 2,500 square foot units, 3-4
bedroom, 3-4 bathroom.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So they're essentially become, you know,
single-family homes with a common wall, is what you're getting. I had
mentioned the Hanover Project, it's actually over 130 units per acre, so…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): This kind of gets us back to a quandary that…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): There's this real gap between 20 and over 100
plus, where just nobody is building now.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Don't know if that's gonna stay the way it
is, but we're not getting things like…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Four-story podium projects that might be
coming in in that 40, 50 unit per acre range.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We're just hearing from developers. We've
only had one tell us that they would consider doing that.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, it's also something to think about, that
in terms of development.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You're either gonna go low or high, or that
mid-range describes nothing that's actually getting submitted.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Our site selection considerations honestly
really haven't changed much from how we identified sites doing the
housing element a couple years ago. I think one thing we've learned in
the last two years, too, is that it's more feasible to get the density
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): On the major corridors, they're designed for
higher density.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We mentioned AB 2011. This was a strategy we
had 2-3 years ago when that was new legislation. It went in in July 2023.
The city never got an AB 2011 application, I think because you had
affordability requirements for prevailing wage and other
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): What were considered fairly onerous
restrictions by developers, but what it did do
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): With set minimum densities along commercial
corridors where you could build residential.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Even without rezoning and exempt from CEQA.
So that became a strategy we had looked at, is trying to go with the 50
units per acre or more along Stevens Creek, De Anza, and other busy
corridors. We have… we're not deviating from that now.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Another thing to keep in mind is much of the
city's major corridors are already designated PCG Res.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So they allow commercial or residential
already, up to about 25 per acre maximum. They don't have a minimum.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But what that tells you is you already have a
city full of townhome sites, whether you make them priority housing sites
or not.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think that's why we've seen
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): A lot of these sites come in where maybe one
of the lots was a priority housing site or none.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Because at that… up to 25, that's the
townhome sweet spot already, so I don't know that…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Putting more priority housing sites in that
density range is not really helping us address a potential no-net loss
problem.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): One other thing I think we've seen from
projects is putting even townhome densities in neighborhoods does not go
over terribly well.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): They tend to be projects that draw
neighborhoods out. They're not terribly popular.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): They have a longer approval time.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And I think one other thing we've seen, too,
is some of those tend to be on the west side, where we may even have
issues, potentially, with evacuation.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, some sites that were getting considered
even in the last cycle, now that we know a little bit more than we do
about the very high fire zones, that's another thing to keep in mind.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And the last bullet, I think, is just sort of
the theme we have of, if you have fewer sites and higher density, it is
fewer sites and less acreage to rezone.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Our strategy as staff right now are… I've
referenced… we had two density categories, 50 to 65, 65 to 80. We have
nothing higher than that.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think one thing we can look at is sites
that were listed at 50 to move them up to 65. You get a few more units by
doing that.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And any new sites added along major
corridors, we should be looking at 65 minimum to try to get the…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The greatest number of affordable units we
can.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Another thought, just in terms of getting
more total units, not necessarily for housing element sites, would be
establish a minimum density.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): for a lot of those PCG res sites.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): However, that would be 15 per acre, whatever
the number is. Right now, there's no bottom.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So having something, maybe it's 20.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So you don't get a 12- or 15 unit project,
you get a 20, 21.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): It would help in terms of the annual
reporting when we got actual development on those properties.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think I had touched on, too, I know when we
went through the housing element last time, there was thoughts about
putting a lot along the Bubb Road corridor in.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We had one site on McClellan, also we're
looking at things like Foothill and West Stevens Creek.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): All of these, based on the evacuation study
we did last October, have, you know, vehicle-to-capacity ratios in the
event
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Of an evacuation. So, just something else to
keep in mind that the major corridors and the central city area don't
have to deal with.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Related density considerations, these are
sort of hard to avoid, which is not central to no land loss, but, I think
we know our city council, the Commission, and residents.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Have had concerns that most of our housing
sites have been displacing retail, whether it's underperforming or not.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): None of our housing element sites were
displacing existing housing, so, this is something else we need to keep
in mind, is the retention of retail centers or, office jobs, even,
because that's been another factor that
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): As these sites convert to housing.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That retail and those jobs are gone.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): While we need to find the housing, there are
ways to try to identify commercial centers you want to retain.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And make sure that happens. So, one of the
things we have thought about, and it's at the thought about stage, is to
essentially transfer density on a site, so…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): If you had a 10-acre site that had 25 units
per acre maximum.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Taking a portion of that site and allowing
much higher density while the remainder could stay commercial. It would
be a way to not lose the housing potential.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Because HGD's concern really is the potential
housing. So,
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And to keep in mind how Cupertino Village has
been a housing element site that was identified for the last time, and
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): when we had talked to them, their plan was
always to keep an equal amount of retail, not displace it when they
redevelop. So that was an example that
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Kept their retail, but also added residential
density through the last cycle.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): If you do, essentially.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): zone away the retail potential. That is,
again, sort of lost housing we need to pick up somewhere else.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And I think the last bullet here, too, is one
of the things we've thought about is
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): you know, why is retail struggling? And it's
not struggling just in Cupertino, is
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Perhaps by getting higher density in close
proximity to the retail that's retained, it may actually help it thrive
and do better by having more residents close to it.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So the key takeaway, this slide maybe could
have saved me from talking 15-20 minutes, is higher density equals fewer
sites, less acreage to upzone.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): More feasible in the sense that it probably
helps us in a no-net-loss situation, because certainly townhomes are
feasible as well.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, now we come to this map. I think this
was in your packet. It's probably a little too busy to go into in detail,
but…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Kind of the basic color coding, if you're in
the…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yellow to orange-brown, you're already, in
the housing element in some capacity.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And the greens and blues are potential.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): housing sites. We… I can say we have had
several property owners express interest in being included or being
upzoned, but we have not done a big community outreach to properties. I
think one thing we wanted to do tonight
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): is see where the commission is at in terms of
a strategy. I know 4 years ago, we did a mass mailing to every household.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I don't know that that was terribly effective
in terms of getting people to come forward.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): we did have a lot of property owners express
interest in being included and allowed an online option for them to enter
that information. But I think what we would be thinking about now is
doing something more targeted to reach out to these people if they're
interested to, you know.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): get them alerted that we're undergoing this
effort. And Pewf, you can feel free to chime in, because I know you spent
a lot more time on this map than I did.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Nothing to…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, well, again, this is a mix of, again,
what we're looking at is existing housing element sites, whether they're
under development, have approved projects or not, or potentially new
ones.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think there are a couple more. Yeah, this
slides to the extreme west.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The pink areas are Builder's Remedy projects,
which I don't think are terribly relevant to tonight. I… we would not be
recommending either of these as a housing element site.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Given their location, among other things.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And this is also in the extreme west. I think
the triangular, narrow site on Adriana over near Highway 85,
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That site, I would point out, is our least
dense housing element site. I think it was, like, 5 to 10 units per acre.
The only one at that low density.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): There is not an active application on file.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But it had a negligible effect on adding
units. I think it increased the… what you could develop by about 5.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But it has also, brought out a fair amount of
community opposition.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Since it's at the end of a cul-de-sac and is
relatively hard to develop.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Even feedback from people involved in real
estate have found that the site is more suitable for single-family
development, so…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): This would be an opportunity to essentially
downzone that site, because it does not have a development application on
it.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And we're not really losing any units by
putting it back to where it was. So, I think that's the one,
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The one of the 58 we have that…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Really didn't make a lot of sense, other than
property owner wanted it included.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And that is all we have. I'm sure we can flip
back to other things, and…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Again, I think this was, like.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): More of an unstructured study section,
workshop format.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That I think we all had in mind, so…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Any feedback we get is great. We do plan on
coming back with much more detail with our consultant as well.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, I'll shut up for now.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Thank you very much, Assistant Director
Connelly and Pugh. I know a lot of work has gone into this, and it's not
an easy question to answer, so, I appreciate it. And I think since this
is a pretty broad discussion, I'd like to try to just structure the
conversation a little bit. So, I'd like to break the conversation into
three parts. The first would be, you know, let's talk about ways we want
to add housing. The second would be, let's talk about areas we want to
either
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): protect or avoid, whether it's retail or
evacuation-prone areas. And then the third would be the BMR policies that
were listed briefly. So, since we're not quite following a typical
format, I would like to actually just move to public comments first, and
then we'll bring it back to the Commission for discussion.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): So, City Clerk?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): We have 7 speakers in person, and one hand
raised on Zoom. Our first speaker is Greg Endum, followed by Ken Bell,
followed by Mooney Maripatla. Welcome, Greg.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Good evening, Chair, Commissioners. My name
is Greg Endum. I represent the ownership of Marina Plaza Shopping Center.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And the parcel next to it, which was formerly
Mandarin Gourmet.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): I'm here this evening to support the upzoning
of our property. It was detailed in a letter I sent to each of you and
staff yesterday.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): We would also ask that the upzoning be to a
50 to 65 units an acre, zone.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Other than, Commissioner Sharp.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): who was the chair of the Plan Commission when
we left.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): brought this project in. In December of 22,
ownership presented and was approved at both Council and Commission.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): our commissioning council, a 206-unit
project.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): This is a for-sale project. We had 36, BMR
units, and about 39,000 square feet of retail.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Once that was approved, interest rates
exploded, construction costs went upside down, and ownership took a step
backward to really look at the project and see
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): how we could… Turn it into something that
made financial sense.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): During the hearings, both at the Commission
and Council, it was interesting, while it was approved unanimously at
both of those bodies, both bodies suggested that we needed more density
on the site.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And so…
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Taking that into consideration, we have
wrestled the last year with probably two dozen designs, and last week, we
submitted to
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): The city a proposal for 340 units and 42,000
square feet of retail, along with 700 and…
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): 40-some-odd parking spaces in an underground
garage.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): So, we are very excited about, the project as
it has come together, and we're just…
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): looking forward to the housing update
process, and hopefully we'll follow very closely after that with our,
proposal to you all for approval. So, that was all I was here tonight to
speak to. I'm happy to answer any questions.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): I have a question.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): So… the 20% What? Are we allowed to ask
questions? Yeah, we're allowed to ask questions of the…
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): The 20%, BMR, that's all moderate income?
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): half is median, half is moderate.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Oh, median and moderate. Okay, but nothing
low or very low? No.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Okay.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, I'm just wondering if the Council ever
decided that
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): They could. I'm gonna have to interrupt, I'm
sorry, Commissioner Scharf, but if you have brief questions is fine.
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Community Hall: But we're not agendizing this guy.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you at this point.
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Community Hall: Thank you.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Thank you.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you, Greg. Our next speaker is Ken
Bell, followed by Mooney Manipatla, followed by Vicki T. Welcome, Ken.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you.
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Michelle Martin (Community Hall): Ladies and gentlemen.
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Michelle Martin (Community Hall): Hi guys, Planning Commission, City,
Pew, Luke, good to see you again. I'm here to make.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): a statement on the project that.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): 20865 McClellan Road again.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I have, several of the neighbors out here
today with us.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And, we want to volunteer that site and let
you, do whatever you want with it in, upzone and other areas, and you can
make all those, low-income, units and,
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Anyway, I'm not sure the status of that.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): There's other construction going on across
the street, single-family units. Again, I am echoing something that I
brought up to Council some time ago, that we would prefer
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): those units to be single-family as well
across the street. We're not sure what the status of it is right now. We
know there's an SP330 locked. This is a housing element site.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): If the developer is willing to trade this off
at this point in time, if the SB330 is expired, we're not sure. Maybe you
can give us an update on that, let us know what's going on with that. We
have had some communication with Terra Holding, with,
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): with, Samir Sharma.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): But, it's, hasn't been, ongoing, very much
recently, so we don't know exactly what's going on.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): But, you know, we appreciate all the hard
work that's going on there.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): That you're doing, and we understand that
you're… that you've got some issues out there you're trying to address,
and we just want to make sure you understand that, you know, our… our
original request was to, to try and down zone this, if we could, and
that's still out there, so,
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): when you…
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): go behind closed doors, or in your open forum
here, and you're discussing this, if this is up for discussion, then, you
know, please consider doing something else with that, if at all possible.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay?
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Thank you.
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Community Hall: Cheers.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you, Ken. Our next speaker is Mooney
Maripatla, followed by Vicki T, followed by Esther Wong. Welcome, Mooney.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Good evening.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Planning Commission Chair, Vice Chair, and
the Commission staff.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): My name is Muni Madhipatla. I'm a farmer…
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Planning Commissioner, and currently serving
on the Bike Commission.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I'm here representing myself, I'm not, in any
official capacity.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I'm here to talk about, you know, the McLaren
project. So… so that one, to me, I live on McLaren Road.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, that project, you know, as it's
conceived, doesn't belong there, right? So, if the Council and the
Planning Commission has an
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): authority to upzone something, you know, you
should have authority to down zone as well. You'll have plenty of
opportunities on the Stevens Creek, as well as, you know, De Anza.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): to do, you know, high-density housing. I, in
fact, you know, when I was serving on the Planning Commission, supported,
and I was one of the commissioners who voted for and asking for that
project, you know, Marina Pryor project.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): to be, upzoned, and even add, you know, one
more floor to it, because they were going for 4 floors, and I wanted 5
floors, because that's an opportunity, you know, to kind of,
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): increased density in the city, right? So
there are places, you know, where high density belongs. Single-family
home, residential neighborhood does… high density condos and townhomes
don't belong there, right? So please.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): you are elected and you are, you know,
appointed to serve the community, so please listen to the community and
do what's needed, right? So, and I also remember during that time,
meeting both the owners of, you know, when I was the planning
commissioner, meeting both the winners, like, you know.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): this… the development I'm talking about,
Samir, I met him on a Zoom.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And he reviewed a plan with, you know, 4
single-family homes, and… with me, right? So I also… and I gave my
feedback, and I was hoping that, you know, it would
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Come back as, you know, four-unit
development, single-family units, but it ended up being, you know, what
it is now, but it doesn't belong there.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And the one across, which is, you know, 6-
unit.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): single-family homes. Even that developer met
with me, and I reviewed the plan, and, you know, and of course it got
approved, and I was on the commission, you know, at the time approving
it, and, you know, it went through the council approval as well. So I'm
really happy to see, you know, how that shaped up. So… so I think, you
know, neighbors, everybody's happy about that.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And I'm so proud of, you know, our council
and the commission for standing up for residents against, you know, the
Schofield property, right? So, the way this thing works in our city.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): it's so attractive, a lot of these real
estate investors, you know, from outside, they come in and grab these
properties and try to maximize profit and leave that mess to deal with
us… mess for us, right? So, this particular one, with…
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): You know, that street being, you know, 400%
war subscribed for a fire evacuation, the high density doesn't belong
there. That street serves four schools, and, you know, and there are
bicycle lanes, so please take all this into consideration, down zone that
property to single-family homes. Thank you.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you, Mooney. Our next speaker is Vicki
T, followed by Esther Wong, followed by Jonathan Chang. Welcome, Vicki.
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00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:36.860
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Hello! Get lower.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Good evening, Chair and Commissioners and
staff.
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I just wanted to express my concerns about
also the McClellan property, the 28065 McClellan Road. I live right next
to the property, so this directly affects me. I…
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I pretty much lost hope that there's going
to be a huge change in it, just because of, like, what you have provided
as far as, like, being in the housing element and all that stuff, but…
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): besides that, I guess I just wanted to find
out, like, how do we address our concerns about, like, the properties
around that particular property when the new development is being built?
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Specifically, like, fire and emergency
services access, because it's going to be a new single, like, road going
into this new property off of McClellan during high traffic times. I'm
sure everyone who lives in Cupertino knows that it's really congested on
that road.
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And if there are cars coming in and out from
the townhomes onto McClellan, and the fire truck or emergency service
needs to get in there, they won't be able to get in there. There is no
other streets, to get near that property, or even across the street.
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Another concern is parking. Right now, we
did ask Samir at Terra Holdings to add additional parking. He did, I
think, add maybe 5 or 6 spots for the over 20 units, which I don't think
is sufficient.
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Where is all that overflow parking going to
happen? There is no parking on McClellan.
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Is that going to heavily impact the
neighbors on Bonnie? Does that mean we have to permit our parking so that
we don't have parking in front of our homes, like, all the time?
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And I also wanted to find out, how we keep
up to date with what's going on with the plans on the property. We have
been in contact, or I have been in contact with
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the person in charge of the project, and we
get really vague answers. I'm also in contact with Samir. The last time
he sent me a copy of their plans was, I think, June of last year, so that
I could, like, deep dive into the plans and find out exactly where drains
were gonna be, and sewer, and all that stuff, but…
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Since I know it's the law, the only way I
can see plans is getting an appointment and then looking at it, and I
can't take pictures of it, so it's really hard to actually go through the
plans, like, in detail to find out exactly, like.
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): how it's going to affect our property. For
example, like, it… the last time I saw the plans, it showed that there
are going to be overflow drains on my… my neighbor's property, and
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): like, when is it appropriate, or who do I
talk to to ask for? Like, why is it on… being shown on my property and
not on the developer's property?
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): But yes, so, thank you for your time.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you, Vicki. Our next speaker is Esther
Wong, followed by Jonathan Chang, followed by Jennifer Griffin. Welcome,
Esther. Hi, I just want to echo that I support all of what they've said.
Just…
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Speaker 11 (Community Hall): I'm just really concerned about
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Speaker 11 (Community Hall): the lack of parking, the sewer line, I think
we asked a lot of questions about how do you get the sewer from the back
of the property of a one-acre
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Speaker 11 (Community Hall): land up to McClellan. Do our sewer lines
even support, you know, that much more? And then there's going to be
another, development on the corner of McClellan and Dean… is it De Anza
Boulevard?
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Speaker 11 (Community Hall): No, Stelling. There's gonna be, like, a huge
development there. I mean, there's so much.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Sorry, do you mind getting a little closer to
the mic? Thank you so much. Oh, sorry.
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Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Anyways, I just basically want to say I
support everything that they're saying. I'm just adding nonsense right
now. Thank you.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you, Esther. Our next speaker is
Jonathan Chang, followed by Jennifer Griffin. Welcome, Jonathan.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Good evening, members of the Commission and
Planning staff. I'm super excited to be here. My name is Jonathan Chang
with Alpha XRE Capital. We are a urban info developer based here,
actually, in the city of Cupertino, partly here because we are one of the
names mentioned in the staff report, but more importantly, wanted to just
kind of express our appreciation for the city and just have a great
experience working here, particularly with planning staff, Pugh, Luke,
and
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): John and, Shelby. We just found that you guys
are very communicative, transparent, and just really makes the whole
process of development a much smoother and more, productive. So,
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We have, our experience here in Cupertino
includes six single-family homes, next to the New Life Church on
McClendon Road, which is currently under construction.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And more recently, we submitted a formal
planning application for 3 parcels at the intersection of North Foothill
Boulevard and Stevens Creek Boulevard, and that's planned for 25 townhome
units, 4 of those planned for below market rate.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And,
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): One of those sites was actually our home for
two years. We recently graduated to one of Apple's old offices, and we
look forward to really just bringing a really cohesive and well-thought-
out project to the city of Cupertino.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And once again, just wanted to thank staff
for all the work you're doing with the housing element, and looking to
deliver more housing. Regardless of the determination for that, we're
just really excited to work with you and bring a really valuable and nice
community to the city of Cupertino. I just wanted to thank everybody, for
your time. Thank you.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you, Jonathan. Our next speaker is
Jennifer Griffin. Welcome, Jennifer.
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jenny Griffin: Thank you. Can you all hear me?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Yes, we can hear you.
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jenny Griffin: Okay, thank you. Hi, I'm Jennifer Griffin. I live in the
eastern part of Cupertino, Rancho Rinconada. I purchased my home in 1995,
as a single person, and I had lived in the neighborhood for 15 years
before that, renting.
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jenny Griffin: I have sent an email earlier, which you all were kind
enough to print, in the communications concerning
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jenny Griffin: The, the arena?
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jenny Griffin: And I… I won't… I'll make a few comments about that.
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jenny Griffin: But… I am very, very concerned As a city resident, that…
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jenny Griffin: Too much money is being sent spent on…
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jenny Griffin: Picking up the pieces of our city from
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jenny Griffin: the bad statistics arena. The staff and the city have done
a remarkable job of trying to deal with this. They know that the
residents are concerned. This has been going on for
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jenny Griffin: Probably 6 years now.
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jenny Griffin: They have done a fantastic job, they know that the
residents are upset, we know something's wrong, but we can't…
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jenny Griffin: In some cases, they say our hands are tied, not the staff,
but the state.
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jenny Griffin: And the RHNA numbers are wrong. I have stated that over
and over again.
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jenny Griffin: And unfortunately, the governor and our elected officials
at Sacramento State are not paying attention.
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jenny Griffin: about the issues from the bad arena. Bad statistics. They
have not… in fact, even Senator Cortese is aware of how bad these numbers
are, because he voted
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jenny Griffin: with…
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jenny Griffin: straight to have an investigation into HCD's handling of
the RHNA numbers at the state level. There have been two investigations.
But I, as a city resident, do not want any more money spent
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jenny Griffin: on upzoning anything in our city, because the RHNA numbers
are wrong, statistically. My husband is a math brain, he has a master's
degree in statistics, and he has worked in statistical modeling most… all
of his
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jenny Griffin: time, in working in public industry. He was also in supply
chain.
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jenny Griffin: I have a long background in statistics. I tutored it at De
Anza for 5 years, and I have a chemistry degree, and the first
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jenny Griffin: class I took at Dianza that's required of chemistry majors
is called Qualitative Analysis, and it is using statistics in chemistry
in the economic sector. I learned a lot.
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jenny Griffin: These num… I have heard, too, that at the state level, I
have been on 6 Zooms with my husband involved, too.
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jenny Griffin: with people
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jenny Griffin: people who have vast statistical backgrounds, heads of
companies, saying that the RENA numbers are magic. Thank you, Jennifer.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): That is your time. We have no speakers in
person, and no hands raised on Zoom, Chair.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Thank you, City Clerk. So, we will bring it
back to this commission now, and just as a reminder, we'll start off on
the topic of how strategies to increase housing, and, this can be open,
it can either be questions of staff or comments. So, do we have any
Commissioners, with questions or comments?
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Can we first ask questions about the staff's
presentation? Yes, absolutely.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay, so… I'll go first, then.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, I have 19 questions.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, first of all, who prepared this report?
Which consultant?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): the report tonight? Right. Staff.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay, so this was not by Place Works or
anything like that? No.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We're trying to save them for the future
meetings.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The next question, does a site owner, do they
have to express interest in order for the city to rezone their land for
high density?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): They do not have to, but it is helpful. In
the case, if they were to say they do not want to be included, then that
would be unlikely to get approved by HCD.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): This is a side issue. Whatever happened at
the McClellan and Foothill?
400
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): site that was approved years ago. There was a
bike shop and a market there, and nothing ever…
401
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Canyon Crossing? Yeah, Canyon Crossing,
whatever happened to that.
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Michelle Martin (Community Hall): That was a pipeline project? Can you
hear me? Sorry, I can't tell. No.
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Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Your microphone's working.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): That was a pipeline project, and
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): That expired, or is close to expiring, they
have reapplied.
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Speaker 12 (Community Hall): With a different project on that site.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay, is it a higher density than…
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Speaker 12 (Community Hall): It is a little bit higher density than what
was… Okay. But it does not have any, non-commercial component. Right.
Yeah.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Are there any churches that are ever
interested in putting low-income and very low income on their land? We
have one church.
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Speaker 12 (Community Hall): church, that is interested, and they're
already in the housing element. Okay.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So about evacuation routes, what…
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): what is the actual law? I was looking at Bub
earlier, and I remember Bub used to have two lanes in each direction, and
now…
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): It has one lane and a protected bike lane in
each direction. If it still had two lanes, would that…
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): make it… Okay for housing there?
415
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Or is it just not possible?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): there's nothing I'm aware of that says you
couldn't approve housing there. I'm just keeping the communities
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Views in mind, fire safety and evacuations
seem to become a major issue, in recent discussions, but
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): It's possible you would have more scrutiny if
you proposed housing, certainly if you had dense housing and it were in a
very high fire zone.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But there's nothing that's going to prohibit
having a housing development site.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): which has evacuation issues and that.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): you know, that got approved.
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Speaker 12 (Community Hall): add to that, and I'm sorry, I can't tell if
you can hear me or not, but I will add to that that mostly has
historically been industrial sites, so there might be contamination
issues on the sites themselves, because we aren't quite sure what
materials have been used. I know one site that actually has a couple of
whales on it.
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Speaker 12 (Community Hall): For, cleanup, so…
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Well, I can tell you, I worked in one of
those buildings, and we didn't spill anything on the ground.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And we… we didn't fab any boards or anything
there. Okay, the next question is about…
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): it was mentioned about in Luffy's, how even
though we don't normally have developers do that,
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): How do we make sure our in-lieu fees
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): are commensurate with the cost of actually
building low-income housing. We're actually going…
429
00:56:26.975 --> 00:56:33.175
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Through that… Process right now to figure
out what the,
430
00:56:33.895 --> 00:56:45.295
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Sorry, my train of thought got lost there
for a minute. We're actually going through the process of issuing an RFP
to ensure that we can, hire a consultant to develop in lieu fees that
would be commensurate.
431
00:56:45.455 --> 00:56:47.764
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): For this particular situation.
432
00:56:48.350 --> 00:56:49.170
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay.
433
00:56:49.410 --> 00:56:53.220
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, this is related to Valco and SB423.
434
00:56:53.500 --> 00:56:57.560
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, since it was the state, that caused…
435
00:56:57.870 --> 00:57:04.700
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Valco to be allowed to put in so little low-
income housing? Is there no consideration
436
00:57:04.970 --> 00:57:08.319
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): For the fact that we're falling behind
because…
437
00:57:08.640 --> 00:57:10.850
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The state changed the law like that?
438
00:57:11.260 --> 00:57:22.420
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): I mean, SB330 allowed developers to lock in
lower densities than we were hoping to, put in on some of the sites on
Stevens Creek. So, no, state law doesn't…
439
00:57:22.425 --> 00:57:32.165
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): about SB330, I was more about how SB35 got
modified. We went from 50% to 33% to 13%. Right.
440
00:57:32.165 --> 00:57:35.185
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): No, state law doesn't take that into
consideration at all.
441
00:57:35.380 --> 00:57:46.360
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay, and then it was mentioned about… Sites
under construction did not… Displace existing housing.
442
00:57:46.750 --> 00:57:51.630
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): But on Stevens Creek, across from Whole
Foods, we had naturally affordable
443
00:57:52.080 --> 00:57:55.089
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Rental housing that did get torn down.
444
00:57:55.450 --> 00:58:00.060
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): But was that not a priority housing site? Is
that why that was…
445
00:58:00.065 --> 00:58:07.035
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): indeed restricted housing. State law
requires Displacement requirements, if the dis…
446
00:58:07.215 --> 00:58:14.804
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Units had been deed-restricted specifically,
or… there's a very specific definition for what protected or units are.
447
00:58:15.065 --> 00:58:21.225
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Right, and that Bianchi project was a
pipeline site, it wasn't, one of the 58 sites.
448
00:58:22.070 --> 00:58:23.590
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay,
449
00:58:23.940 --> 00:58:30.149
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And then, I guess my last question is about
the Hamptons, since that was mentioned it's about to expire.
450
00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:37.629
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Once it expires, are we free to upzone that
to something higher?
451
00:58:38.165 --> 00:58:43.044
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): right now is about, I want to say, 78
dwelling units to the acre already.
452
00:58:43.245 --> 00:58:56.164
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Right. There's… I don't think that there's
anything that would preclude us, but it was a site in the fourth cycle,
so for this cycle, I think we might have to upzone it by more than 20%.
Right.
453
00:58:56.165 --> 00:59:05.565
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I was looking at some sites in Palo Alto that
just got approved for… It was, like… A hundred…
454
00:59:06.035 --> 00:59:10.264
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): 25 units… no, sorry, 272 units per acre.
455
00:59:10.585 --> 00:59:16.245
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And then, in downtown San Jose, the FAI is
800 units per acre. So…
456
00:59:16.815 --> 00:59:21.814
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Yeah, I mean, 100 to 200 is not unreasonable.
No, it's not unreasonable.
457
00:59:21.815 --> 00:59:27.164
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): reasonable at all. It's just a matter of
whether HCD will buy into the fact that
458
00:59:27.285 --> 00:59:35.854
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): you know, there's gonna be a project that
would replace those 342 units, which was already, you know, there was
already an entitlement on it. Right. The developer didn't move.
459
00:59:36.165 --> 00:59:40.575
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So, it's just a matter of trying to figure
out whether that could happen.
460
00:59:40.580 --> 00:59:48.679
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah, and just that even though that was
entitled, we did not get credit for the Hamptons in the housing element,
because…
461
00:59:49.150 --> 01:00:01.829
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): in HCD's determination, it was not likely to
redevelop by 2031. Right. Which is looking to be… I'm not even sure if it
may have expired already. I know it was… August this year. Oh, okay, 2
months, because it's this year, it's up.
462
01:00:02.300 --> 01:00:12.679
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I know former Mayor Paul and I talked with
Irvine, like, 6 or 7 years ago down in Southern California, and they were
just totally noncommittal, saying, well.
463
01:00:13.630 --> 01:00:20.270
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): things would have to change before they would
be willing to build it. The demand was just… just not there right now.
464
01:00:20.650 --> 01:00:22.139
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you.
465
01:00:23.690 --> 01:00:24.809
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Thank you, Commissioner Rowe.
466
01:00:25.120 --> 01:00:28.520
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Thank you. I want to appreciate staff for the
presentation. That was pretty detailed.
467
01:00:28.525 --> 01:00:30.065
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Detailed and comprehensive.
468
01:00:30.215 --> 01:00:33.775
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Can staff comment on… I believe.
469
01:00:33.775 --> 01:00:40.624
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): If the site is zoned as office or commercial
and residential, as much as Stevens Creek is.
470
01:00:41.985 --> 01:00:50.264
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I believe our money code says if you chose
to do 40% affordable housing, then you can get 100% essential. Can you
clarify that?
471
01:00:52.240 --> 01:00:56.129
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): There is a land use, policy that kind of
states that.
472
01:00:56.640 --> 01:01:04.169
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And so, how could we use that to our
advantage to get the 40% affordable housing out of each site that we
select?
473
01:01:05.390 --> 01:01:11.209
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): We can't. That's a voluntary standard for a
developer. Right.
474
01:01:11.215 --> 01:01:16.394
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): But if the… Path to getting 100% residential
on that site.
475
01:01:16.655 --> 01:01:21.625
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): is to choose to do 40% affordable housing. I
believe that is what the…
476
01:01:21.785 --> 01:01:23.734
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): money court says, is that correct?
477
01:01:23.735 --> 01:01:29.325
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Yes, but there are paths under state density
bonus that would allow them to bypass those regroup requirements.
478
01:01:29.325 --> 01:01:30.885
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Could you expand on what those are?
479
01:01:31.245 --> 01:01:50.745
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): They just have to ask for an incentive, as
long as they provide some minimal number of VLI units, which I think the
minimum amount that they have to provide is 5% VLI? It's under 10. Yeah,
it's 5% VLI, they get one incentive, and that's all you need to bypass
that requirement.
480
01:01:50.745 --> 01:02:00.034
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): effectively, that 40% affordable housing is
now sort of obsolete, because they can use the waivers and incentives to
get this down to 5%. Correct.
481
01:02:00.405 --> 01:02:01.994
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Has anyone ever done it?
482
01:02:02.305 --> 01:02:03.495
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Yeah.
483
01:02:03.895 --> 01:02:08.185
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And there's no way for us to hold them to
that 40% affordable in any…
484
01:02:08.185 --> 01:02:11.175
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): bonus law is the biggest hole in zoning
requirements.
485
01:02:11.175 --> 01:02:15.895
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Alright, different line of thinking then.
So, can staff comment on…
486
01:02:16.005 --> 01:02:19.645
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I believe we have, on R3 sites.
487
01:02:19.815 --> 01:02:26.765
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): The ability to have up to 25% of the site,
if non-habitable, as ADUs.
488
01:02:26.875 --> 01:02:29.884
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Are ADUs designated as affordable housing?
489
01:02:30.075 --> 01:02:30.675
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): not all.
490
01:02:30.675 --> 01:02:32.884
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): But the assumption, yes.
491
01:02:34.240 --> 01:02:44.030
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, let's say we could, you know, just for
hypothesis, let's say we could get 100 ADUs on a site, I'm just picking a
number, but if you got 100 ADUs, how many of those ADUs would be…
492
01:02:44.270 --> 01:02:46.329
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Affordable units. So…
493
01:02:46.625 --> 01:03:05.694
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): it's an exercise that happens every, other
year, essentially, right now, where you do a survey, and HCD… we do a
regional survey, and HCD makes the determination on what that breakdown
of affordability would be. Currently, they are allowing us, up until the
last
494
01:03:05.695 --> 01:03:22.504
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): reporting period that we had, they allowed
us to use a 30-30-30-10 split. Essentially, 60% of the units would go
towards lower income, which is VLI and LI, 30% would go to moderate, and
10% would go to above moderate.
495
01:03:22.575 --> 01:03:35.344
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): However, that is already factored into our
housing element. So, we will get credit for those units should they be
built, we just can't build it into the accounting mechanism of the
housing element.
496
01:03:35.345 --> 01:03:42.105
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Okay, so fair to say that a large
percentage, maybe as much as 90%, could be affordable units out of ADUs.
497
01:03:42.105 --> 01:03:56.345
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Yes, and we've seen some of those ADUs come
online. We just recently had a couple of apartment buildings, but they're
proposing, like, maybe 16 ADUs, so it's not very large.
498
01:03:56.345 --> 01:04:00.374
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, so I have been reading about San Diego
having a lot of
499
01:04:01.055 --> 01:04:08.714
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): high-density ADU on projects. Are staff
aware of what's going on with San Diego and ADUs? There's a lot of
500
01:04:08.905 --> 01:04:12.694
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): noise around ADUs in the system, and, you
know, anti-ADU.
501
01:04:12.925 --> 01:04:21.435
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So how could we learn from San Diego on how
to use ADUs as a strategy to maximize the number of affordable units per
site?
502
01:04:22.410 --> 01:04:41.379
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So, we allow up to 3 ADUs. I mean, state law
allows up to a certain number of ADUs, and I think we're… we're up there
with or even beyond what state law allows. I think what San Diego did is,
I think it was, if you deed restricted an ADU, you get an additional ADU.
So, I think there was…
503
01:04:41.380 --> 01:04:44.419
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Up to a certain number, like maybe 5 or 10,
so it kind of…
504
01:04:44.420 --> 01:04:50.740
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): people could build up to 7 or 8 ADUs on
their properties, and that was becoming an issue in terms of
505
01:04:50.740 --> 01:04:55.460
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): how large the structures that were
accommodating those ADUs were becoming.
506
01:04:55.490 --> 01:05:03.199
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And that was, parking was also an issue in
the neighborhoods. That was kind of where that was stemming from. Okay.
So…
507
01:05:03.215 --> 01:05:16.275
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): We don't think that the R3 site could be
packed with ADUs in some way. Is there anything that staff can think of
that would leverage ADUs as a strategy on R3 sites to maximize affordable
units?
508
01:05:17.970 --> 01:05:25.180
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): It would be something that we'd have to
think about, but it's already factored in. Like, we looked at Arena ADU
productions.
509
01:05:25.290 --> 01:05:30.230
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And built that number into the housing
element production.
510
01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:35.650
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, yes. Could we, for example, zone a site
in some way that says this is an ADU?
511
01:05:35.910 --> 01:05:41.270
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Site. For example, I understand these are
accessory dwelling units, and so it's not the primary dwelling unit.
512
01:05:41.420 --> 01:05:43.930
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): But could we… You know, just…
513
01:05:44.750 --> 01:05:50.540
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): bouncing ideas off here, but could we zone a
R3 site with 1 DU per acre?
514
01:05:50.770 --> 01:06:00.040
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And then say the rest of it is conversion
ADUs, and you could go up to 25%. Well, I guess that's 25% of the units
allowed, so that would not help. But how could we…
515
01:06:00.540 --> 01:06:07.670
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): allow the developer to utilize the remaining
space beyond the 1DU per acre in the form of ADUs.
516
01:06:09.990 --> 01:06:17.490
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I mean, the only multifamily or townhome
project we had was Toll Brothers included, I think, 10 or 11 ADUs.
517
01:06:18.060 --> 01:06:25.420
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But that was also, like, with most
developers, that was part of their thinking and their design, which they
had said, we…
518
01:06:25.630 --> 01:06:30.610
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): being Toll Brothers were the ones that had
figured this out. We have not had any other…
519
01:06:30.730 --> 01:06:33.469
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Townhome developers really go that route.
520
01:06:35.220 --> 01:06:39.219
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You know, it's one of those things, it's a
good idea to think in terms of how do you incentivize it.
521
01:06:39.540 --> 01:06:45.199
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And between incentivizing and getting people
to do it is always the trick.
522
01:06:45.820 --> 01:06:50.100
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And that, that… developers, it's always that
until somebody
523
01:06:50.760 --> 01:06:53.489
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Does something successful to break the model.
524
01:06:53.900 --> 01:07:00.710
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): very… I mean, I remember working in Santana
Row when I was an associate planner, and everybody said, they're never
gonna build it, it'll never work.
525
01:07:01.650 --> 01:07:06.709
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Then it worked, and people did other
projects, or wanted projects like that, but…
526
01:07:07.370 --> 01:07:13.399
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): that always seems to be the case. I mean, I
think maximizing ADUs would be great. I don't know that it…
527
01:07:14.300 --> 01:07:20.090
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): it would be a way to help this issue. I don't
know that it… it's not going to be THE way to take care of this.
528
01:07:20.095 --> 01:07:31.155
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, just extending that some more, I believe
conversion ADUs as a strategy allows for 25% of the units on the site to
be ADUs, correct? So, if I had a…
529
01:07:31.435 --> 01:07:38.105
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): R3 site that allowed 100 units, then we
could… 25% of the…
530
01:07:38.405 --> 01:07:41.905
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): 100 units could be ADUs in non-habitable
space.
531
01:07:42.165 --> 01:07:49.935
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Is that… is that correct? That's true. That
sounds right. What… what could we… what is… what are some examples of
non-habitable space that…
532
01:07:50.405 --> 01:07:53.614
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): We could… how could we use a site such that
533
01:07:54.215 --> 01:08:02.075
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): enough space is proportioned as non-
habitable to allow for or encourage the developer to build conversion
ADUs.
534
01:08:02.985 --> 01:08:07.184
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So, most of what we're seeing right now is
conversion of garages.
535
01:08:07.275 --> 01:08:16.185
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): to ADUs, in rental projects. We're seeing
some, you know, consolidation of laundry facilities.
536
01:08:16.265 --> 01:08:31.584
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And converting those into EDUs. I think I've
seen one, where they, the office that they had was a bit larger than
normal, so they converted some portion of the office that they had for
the rental project into an ADU.
537
01:08:31.835 --> 01:08:47.345
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): But beyond that, you know, there aren't
really any other non-habitable spaces. Like, there aren't very large
corridors, for example, that you could, you know, if you have to access
the existing units, you can't convert those. So there isn't really
anything that's non-habitable space.
538
01:08:47.345 --> 01:08:51.805
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Just, yeah, so just staying creative there
could be… Could we…
539
01:08:53.185 --> 01:09:02.514
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): On an R3 site, are there ways to proportion
the site such that some part of the land is treated as non-habitable, but
could be used for conversion ADUs?
540
01:09:03.205 --> 01:09:05.765
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): where I'm going with that question is, I
believe the…
541
01:09:05.944 --> 01:09:23.344
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): the Mooney Code allows for the non-habitable
portion to be up to 25% of the units as conversion ADUs, but that is
restricted to only the non-habitable portion. So, what I'm trying to do
is, how do we maximize the non-habitable amount of land on a lot?
542
01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:27.500
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So, under state housing law, I don't think
we can really…
543
01:09:27.779 --> 01:09:34.849
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): maximize anything. The developer brings in a
project, and we have to conform our standards to what the project is
designed as.
544
01:09:34.854 --> 01:09:40.324
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, just kind of playing that out a little
bit, I believe storage is considered non-habitable. So could we…
545
01:09:40.564 --> 01:09:46.364
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Could we zone an R3 or a mixed-use site such
that part of the site is storage?
546
01:09:46.824 --> 01:09:47.944
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And…
547
01:09:47.950 --> 01:09:56.739
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): use a waiver to waive that requirement. I'm
just… I'm just being practical about it. I mean, that's what's gonna
happen. Yes, we can establish the regulation.
548
01:09:57.100 --> 01:09:59.929
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): But the regulation can be waived.
549
01:10:00.355 --> 01:10:04.524
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, if a site were zoned to be storage
alongside with the
550
01:10:04.735 --> 01:10:09.585
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): R3 res, or, you know, whatever we call it,
the dual zoning that we have.
551
01:10:10.445 --> 01:10:14.735
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Can the storage zoning be waived, or is that
a GP amendment?
552
01:10:14.735 --> 01:10:22.645
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): General Plan Amendment. If the land use
allows residential uses, you have to allow residences on it. And how long
does it take for a GP amendment?
553
01:10:23.910 --> 01:10:29.530
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Two years? It depends. I mean, a year or
more, it's all subject to CEQA, city council…
554
01:10:29.535 --> 01:10:35.805
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): pause here, but I just want to throw out
that one way to disincentivize, or incentivize, depending on the case.
555
01:10:36.115 --> 01:10:42.355
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): is if you require a GP amendment to make
changes, then that stretches a project out.
556
01:10:43.025 --> 01:10:48.694
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): But if the storage zone portion of a lot
could be used for conversion ADUs.
557
01:10:49.285 --> 01:10:51.235
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): How can we allow for…
558
01:10:51.905 --> 01:10:58.654
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): that portion of the lot to be conversion
ADU-based construction, so… so look at basically taking our R3 parcels
and…
559
01:10:59.005 --> 01:11:02.675
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And trying to maximize up to 25% as
conversion ADUs.
560
01:11:03.305 --> 01:11:05.165
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Leave… leave that for now. Thank you.
561
01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:09.199
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Do we have any other questions? Commissioner
Fung?
562
01:11:11.880 --> 01:11:14.200
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): So here's an easy one, actually.
563
01:11:14.205 --> 01:11:15.205
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And no lead luck.
564
01:11:15.415 --> 01:11:21.574
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): No net loss slide. I was just curious, can we
bring that back up, just briefly?
565
01:11:21.850 --> 01:11:36.390
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): One of the comments you had had was that the
moderate level number, which was currently showing, you know, the formal
calculation was negative, that that probably wouldn't be as a result of
the townhouses. I'm just curious, so the negative 327,
566
01:11:39.150 --> 01:11:45.300
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): If the current plans were to move forward.
The same things that would cause a negative 22 to be cleared.
567
01:11:45.440 --> 01:11:52.109
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Do you believe that the negative 327 would
still be negative 327 or so? Yes. Or would that number actually increase?
568
01:11:52.115 --> 01:11:58.875
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): might actually increase. We'll have to…
yeah, again, these numbers are not final, they're just very tentative
numbers. No, it's good.
569
01:11:58.875 --> 01:12:02.624
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I think it… I think it was actually a really
good illustration, you know, one of the…
570
01:12:02.915 --> 01:12:08.915
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): You know, unexpected consequences of, you
know, the economy and all the different things was that it did make a
change.
571
01:12:09.115 --> 01:12:20.285
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): which boosts the moderate number of units
being built. You know, the fact that these were going to, you know, had
converted to for-sale units when that wasn't anticipated, you know, had a
benefit.
572
01:12:20.455 --> 01:12:27.025
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): But I just, you know, the problem is that if
that makes, you know, there are not going to be very low
573
01:12:27.155 --> 01:12:28.595
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): units for sale.
574
01:12:28.995 --> 01:12:37.025
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): So, you know, I… what I was really curious
was, just to understand, you know, is that kind of the number you expect,
or is it…
575
01:12:37.205 --> 01:12:40.705
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): It's close. You need to be concerned that it
will become 500.
576
01:12:40.705 --> 01:12:47.265
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): I don't think it would go up to that number
at this point, but I think it might go up a little bit.
577
01:12:47.650 --> 01:12:54.349
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah, it can grow. I mean, the one other
thing, too, with the housing element assumptions is, for all those
categories.
578
01:12:54.610 --> 01:13:09.310
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): it's not looking at the city's BMR
requirements, so it assumes you'll get some portion of low and some
portion of moderate, which, when a project comes in, you're going to get
one or the other. Yeah. Yeah. And low has… obviously, this was impacted
by one project doing a modification.
579
01:13:09.490 --> 01:13:11.460
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But yeah, we've…
580
01:13:11.650 --> 01:13:20.199
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): done better in the moderate category, just
because of the sheer number of projects, that we got moderate income
units where we didn't plan for housing, really.
581
01:13:20.870 --> 01:13:21.540
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah, in the.
582
01:13:21.545 --> 01:13:24.074
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): The spirit of trying to make, achievable
583
01:13:24.535 --> 01:13:28.614
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): to set achievable objectives, I mean, I
think one of the challenges here is that
584
01:13:28.905 --> 01:13:36.995
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): you know, the market has shown not much
preference for rental housing, and that that makes it difficult to
achieve these. I mean, you know, you can
585
01:13:37.405 --> 01:13:43.975
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): you could radically increase the density
that's allowed, it doesn't… nobody will build it, and then we… and then
we would fail.
586
01:13:43.980 --> 01:13:55.059
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): difference between the practic… what'll
practically occur and what has to occur on paper, unfortunately, and we
have to bridge that gap, because that is the law. Yeah. I would even say
that.
587
01:13:55.710 --> 01:13:58.720
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): You know, in the planning process, the
moderate
588
01:13:59.230 --> 01:14:10.840
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): the moderate targets and the goals that were
set in the housing element were actually very realistic. Closer. Yeah,
you know, I don't think it would have anticipated all the townhouses we
expected, but, you know, that…
589
01:14:11.130 --> 01:14:19.559
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): the intent of building for sale, I think
that was probably very clear, you know, from the people who were coming
to speak to the city during the housing elements, so…
590
01:14:19.790 --> 01:14:23.650
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I was curious, there was a question,
591
01:14:23.940 --> 01:14:30.359
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rowett asked about ADUs. One of
the things about the counting of ADUs as affordable units, that is.
592
01:14:30.930 --> 01:14:46.249
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): In the past, that was treated as something
where ADUs got that designation as… because they were affordable by
design, by nature of being smaller. That means that they rent at market
rates, but would still qualify. Is that… is that basically…
593
01:14:46.255 --> 01:14:53.074
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Correct, yeah. That's the basis of the
survey that I was talking about, and the basis of HCD's determination
based on those results.
594
01:14:53.080 --> 01:14:55.600
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Okay, and then… let's see, I had one other
one.
595
01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:07.069
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Let me, let me just kind of make, at a high
level, one of the notes that I made. So, first of all, thank you very
much for the report.
596
01:15:07.200 --> 01:15:25.039
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): It was very informative, particularly at
this early stage. I did want to comment that perhaps one of the things,
and one of the things that kind of leapt out at me was that, I think as
an objective, you might want to look at… to see if there's a mechanism,
and this may be something
597
01:15:25.190 --> 01:15:27.360
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): you know,
598
01:15:27.540 --> 01:15:39.230
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Something that you might go away and think
about, and then we might talk about in the future, to try to develop,
perhaps, an index, an objective index, that rates, you know, that's kind
of a scoring factor on some of the different
599
01:15:39.410 --> 01:15:47.739
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): sites. In particular, the one that kind of
leaps out is the impact of adjacent single-family residences.
600
01:15:47.790 --> 01:16:00.320
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): So one of the things… one of the things
that… the illustration for that is that the Banley project doesn't have
adjacent, single-family homes. The Marina project that I think they
brought here today doesn't have
601
01:16:00.670 --> 01:16:06.839
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Doesn't have adjacent single-family homes,
so some of that friction That comes in the community.
602
01:16:06.950 --> 01:16:14.610
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I think that that's something that gets
looked at on every proposal, and it is hard for the community to
understand that.
603
01:16:16.030 --> 01:16:29.280
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): to understand the things that their sites
are being judged on, because we didn't try to make that an objective
number. So, you know, the examples of the mid-range ones are some of the
townhouse projects on
604
01:16:29.590 --> 01:16:30.840
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Stevens Creek.
605
01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:39.609
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Immediately adjoined next to, you know, true
single-family home areas, and that… that actually has been an… has been
an area of… of friction.
606
01:16:39.940 --> 01:16:46.189
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Again, I think when people are trying to
evaluate the sites, if we had a reasonable way
607
01:16:46.190 --> 01:17:01.930
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): And this is something, again, discussed with
the public, so that people don't feel that they're being railroaded here,
that that would be a great way to help steer the thinking of sites. And
then, you know, the example of the high ones for Euvilich, for instance,
would be, I think, probably pretty high in terms of
608
01:17:02.040 --> 01:17:03.280
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): of,
609
01:17:03.520 --> 01:17:17.929
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): In terms of the neighborhood impact. So,
having that kind of rating, I think, would be useful. That would also
apply in the opposite example, this is something we discussed with the
Badley site about industrial impact. If there are industrial uses.
610
01:17:17.930 --> 01:17:25.069
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): In particular, we have a bunch of PR areas.
The Bandley one happens to be in a PR area, where you just say.
611
01:17:25.520 --> 01:17:37.999
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): there isn't a designated industrial area
here. It's just… any place within the region could have been… could have
been an industrial site. This would be true with Bubb as well, I think.
612
01:17:38.110 --> 01:17:43.720
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): So… so it would be interesting if there's a
way to score that as well, so that people get a sense of…
613
01:17:43.980 --> 01:17:52.670
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): yeah, you can build… you could build Banley,
but you need to be careful, because the people around you, maybe, you
know, you might have… you might be next to a building that has
manufacturing in it.
614
01:17:52.930 --> 01:17:56.399
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): And, and I would say that fire and… fire and
evac,
615
01:17:56.630 --> 01:18:09.130
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): the, translating that to numeric, you know,
to a numeric measure as part of what's presented to the community would
help people understand. You know, sometimes that question would really
be.
616
01:18:09.400 --> 01:18:26.930
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): you know, I think that the study does raise
some question about, you know, how serious is this… is this problem? So
that if there's a way to translate into something that, allows you to
comparatively understand the science, it would be great. And then the
final one, I'd mark down four. The final one was the retail potential.
617
01:18:26.980 --> 01:18:37.449
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): This is one that, I think the Planning
Commission has repeatedly kind of said, hey, there's an opportunity to
change the form, to steer the form in a way
618
01:18:37.470 --> 01:18:53.690
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): that allows, allows, commercial uses to be,
or, you know, retail uses to be successful. We ought to do that. And so,
you know, I think there was… there was discussion, there was discussion
around one of the Apple sites, you know, and how that could be structured
differently.
619
01:18:53.790 --> 01:19:04.189
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): to, perhaps, encourage a retail center that
was, you know, related to Main Street. I think that would be the same
case for some of these mixed-use ones, even though
620
01:19:04.310 --> 01:19:10.629
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): It seems like the interest in having mixed
uses seems to be extremely, extremely low among the developers.
621
01:19:12.340 --> 01:19:14.320
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I think that's it for my comments. Thank
you.
622
01:19:15.010 --> 01:19:34.690
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I just had a quick follow-up on your question
regarding the, negative, I think, 342 or so low-income units. What
exactly have we not counted yet that would be factored in? Is it, I'm
assuming, Morena Plaza, and then is Wolf Road Teacher Housing, and where
is Falco in all of this?
623
01:19:35.170 --> 01:19:38.490
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Valco is affecting that number, that… So
it's already included.
624
01:19:38.495 --> 01:19:39.235
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): was already.
625
01:19:39.240 --> 01:19:50.580
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And that number, yeah. What's not included
would probably be ADUs, you know, building permits that we've issued. If
there are any projects that are outside of these areas, for example.
626
01:19:50.580 --> 01:20:00.869
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Hanover will probably have a lot of VLI
units. I don't believe that's included in that count that we were looking
at. I don't believe so. But, again.
627
01:20:00.870 --> 01:20:13.520
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): it's not settled, the dust hasn't settled on
this calculation yet, and once we have those numbers, we'll be happy to
bring it, but again, with the understanding that that's a moving target,
because we're issuing building permits every day as we speak.
628
01:20:13.820 --> 01:20:17.239
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So, yeah, it's just a snapshot in time.
Thank you.
629
01:20:17.625 --> 01:20:19.555
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Any other questions? Commissioner Owenscott?
630
01:20:19.685 --> 01:20:24.454
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Hi, have a couple of questions. One is, you
make a recommendation.
631
01:20:24.460 --> 01:20:28.210
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): in the staff report to increase the minimum
density to.
632
01:20:28.210 --> 01:20:31.920
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): 65 dwelling units per acre for, sites that
are in already.
633
01:20:31.920 --> 01:20:51.679
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): priority housing sites. Just had a question
for how do you account for property owners who are already in the housing
element, like, you know, the one at the corner of Stevens Creek and, I
mean, McClellan and Stelling, for example, that are in the process of, of
creating a development, will that affect their…
634
01:20:52.120 --> 01:21:05.679
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): the plans that they are putting in place, or
preclude a planned project that's in the works, or will you… are you, are
you planning for somehow adjusting for those? No, actually, if you look.
635
01:21:05.680 --> 01:21:19.230
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): at the map, I've actually gone through and
identified some of the sites that we, you know, potentially would upzone,
but that continues to be a clear orange, which means that's a priority
housing site. We aren't proposing. At least we aren't thinking
636
01:21:19.360 --> 01:21:26.330
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Again, we don't have a list of sites yet,
this is just very big picture, but that is not one that we wanted to
touch. Okay.
637
01:21:26.335 --> 01:21:29.335
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): wouldn't be, like, a blanket of everything.
No, no, no. Got it.
638
01:21:29.335 --> 01:21:43.715
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Okay. Anything that's in the 50 to 65 range,
because we haven't seen any development in that range, we were thinking
of bumping those up to 65 to 80, because that's what we saw at Hanover.
That's where we saw some development occur.
639
01:21:43.715 --> 01:22:00.234
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Got it. Okay, great. And then the other
question, and I guess this is more of a comment in line with what
Commissioner Fung said, I noticed in the report you talk about, you know,
avoiding neighborhoods. That is kind of a confusing
640
01:22:00.805 --> 01:22:05.305
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): nomenclature, because neighborhoods is
pretty much all of Cupertino.
641
01:22:05.305 --> 01:22:21.464
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): So, I think to be more precise would be to
avoid neighborhoods that are predominantly single-family residences, and,
you know, I think to agree with Commissioner Fang, if we can put some
sort of objective measure around that, I think that would be…
642
01:22:21.465 --> 01:22:29.025
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): That would be useful, because just reading
this and saying, we're going to avoid neighborhoods, it's kind of like,
well, that's… that's the entire city. The goal is not.
643
01:22:29.025 --> 01:22:35.784
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): to go into the neighborhoods like happened
with the last housing elements, like, such as Adriana, Evilage.
644
01:22:35.785 --> 01:22:54.684
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): I mean, don't go into neighborhoods that are
predominantly single-family residences. Correct. So if we can just kind
of clarify that moving forward, and then also define what we mean by
predominantly. And in line with that, when we are talking about
increasing density for
645
01:22:54.695 --> 01:23:01.624
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): properties that are along major arterials,
but they back onto single-family residences.
646
01:23:01.765 --> 01:23:21.514
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): can we consider a step-down, requirement
that says, you know, you can be 30 to 35 density facing the main
arterial, but you have to step down to, like, 20 or 15 or whatever, you
know, as you get adjacent to the single-family residences, so… so…
647
01:23:21.835 --> 01:23:26.904
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): I don't know if that's… that's a possible
thing that we can require, or request?
648
01:23:26.905 --> 01:23:36.555
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): certainly look at that, again, I mean, with
the understanding that it'll probably impact numbers for what you get to.
And then again, there is a waiver for that.
649
01:23:37.250 --> 01:23:46.039
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah, because we did, we did factor that in,
and had, you know, diagrams showing building form, how they would step
down, and unfortunately, it gets waived.
650
01:23:46.770 --> 01:23:50.459
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): It's almost like you'd have to have two
separate
651
01:23:50.660 --> 01:23:54.220
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Districts with density ranges there, which…
because…
652
01:23:54.600 --> 01:24:13.789
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You're right, we realize is when we say in
the neighborhoods, I think by that we meant projects that are squarely in
a single-family neighborhood, but nothing else around them. Right.
Because many of the sites, even on Stephen Creek and De Anza, share one
property line, at least, with a single-family neighborhood. I mean,
that's just the nature of Cupertino. We've seen that, that…
653
01:24:14.180 --> 01:24:21.569
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): even with townhomes, people are showing up
saying, hey, this overlooks my backyard. So that… that's gonna be a very
common issue.
654
01:24:21.880 --> 01:24:27.370
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Throughout. So I think we can… Clarify that
more, but the…
655
01:24:28.500 --> 01:24:40.059
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): the split density is something I know we've
wrestled with, with how do you get, like, a 20 units per acre close to
single family, stepping up to 50 or more near the street frontage, and
it's just a…
656
01:24:40.300 --> 01:24:44.339
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Problem to solve, especially with density
bonus.
657
01:24:44.660 --> 01:25:00.889
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I mean, the only project I know since I've
been here that kind of did that was the first approval for the 1655 De
Anza, had the rental out near the street with townhomes adjacent to
single-family, and that project's not going to get built.
658
01:25:02.470 --> 01:25:10.160
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Right. So, my second question… my third,
third question is, you mentioned we have two,
659
01:25:10.160 --> 01:25:25.509
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): affordable, 100% affordable, projects in the
works, right? One under litigation. Is there anything, that we can do as
a city to incentivize or to partner with county or, or school boards,
school districts to.
660
01:25:25.530 --> 01:25:43.659
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): To bring one or more of these 100%
affordable, projects to the city, because that would… that would make a
big dent. Whether it's, you know, educators or essential workers or, you
know, some other, population that we, that we want to protect.
661
01:25:44.190 --> 01:25:53.069
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Offhand, I don't know, because what we
consistently hear from affordable housing developers is the lack of tax
credits and the lack of funding.
662
01:25:53.360 --> 01:25:58.620
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I mean, it's just universal, especially for
the 9% tax credits.
663
01:25:59.380 --> 01:26:02.429
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): They're ultra-competitive, and…
664
01:26:02.700 --> 01:26:08.429
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think that's one reason we're just not
seeing… we actually had more inquiries 2-3 years ago than we're getting
now.
665
01:26:08.950 --> 01:26:13.939
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): for 100% affordable projects, where I don't
even know the last time we had one.
666
01:26:14.565 --> 01:26:26.774
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): I think we already have policies at the
housing element that talk about, you know, collaborating and coordinating
with school districts and other affordable housing developers on bringing
such projects into the city, and I know our housing division
667
01:26:26.885 --> 01:26:32.064
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): meets with affordable housing developers on
a fairly regular schedule in CLIP.
668
01:26:34.065 --> 01:26:37.825
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): So you're talking about actually putting
incentives in place. The only way that's.
669
01:26:37.825 --> 01:26:48.605
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): who they was going to get to. The only way
they'd be interested is if they got dollars. And that's dollars speak,
and that's the only way you can get somebody interested to do a project
like that. Okay.
670
01:26:49.820 --> 01:26:52.389
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): So, we're in the question phase, right?
671
01:26:52.620 --> 01:26:53.810
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): So, okay.
672
01:26:54.660 --> 01:26:56.630
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Okay, I'll stop for now.
673
01:26:59.150 --> 01:27:00.100
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rao?
674
01:27:00.920 --> 01:27:02.400
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Thank you, Chair. So…
675
01:27:02.660 --> 01:27:10.350
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I had a question about what is the basis for
inclusion of some of these sites in the map that we have here. For
example.
676
01:27:10.910 --> 01:27:12.680
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I would have thought…
677
01:27:12.860 --> 01:27:17.290
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): you could just show all of Stevens Creek in
a color code of some kind.
678
01:27:17.430 --> 01:27:26.530
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So why are there gaps in the color code
where we are not showing? I'm excluding the residential units, for
example, city center, I would exclude.
679
01:27:26.680 --> 01:27:32.099
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): But as I glanced through the map here, for
example…
680
01:27:32.430 --> 01:27:40.410
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Opposite the recent dividend Homes project,
there is an office parcel that is currently, I believe, Safari Kid and
some kind of pizza joint.
681
01:27:40.730 --> 01:27:45.960
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And the Rose D launch that just closed, so
why isn't that a potential site?
682
01:27:47.830 --> 01:27:52.889
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Oh, which one? This would be to the west of
Sweet Maple. Oh, yeah.
683
01:27:52.890 --> 01:28:06.720
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): The Western Sweet Maple is the, retail,
building for the Biltmore Apartments, which is… which used to be Counter
Burger. I mean, there is a very shallow parcel there.
684
01:28:06.720 --> 01:28:15.159
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Again, we're looking for sites that bring
numbers to the table, so we're not upzoning everything that, you know,
685
01:28:15.500 --> 01:28:23.839
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): are… the way that we were looking at it is
identify buildable, developable sites that would bring… generate numbers
to achieve the RHNA targets.
686
01:28:25.130 --> 01:28:29.369
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So, that site is probably about a third of
an acre.
687
01:28:29.375 --> 01:28:34.314
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Are you including the Safari Kid in that?
I'm just… I'm just… because if you include Safari Kid.
688
01:28:34.605 --> 01:28:36.874
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): That's a fairly large parcel.
689
01:28:36.875 --> 01:28:45.135
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): No, no, and it does not. Again, we… we were
looking to have contiguous parcels that were fairly large that would
generate those numbers. Right, so again.
690
01:28:45.875 --> 01:28:51.325
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Maybe a Google Map would help here, but if
you look at… I know what you're talking about. Those are contiguous
parcels.
691
01:28:51.755 --> 01:28:54.824
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): The Safari Kidder is to the west of the
retail. Yes, it is.
692
01:28:54.830 --> 01:29:10.220
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): is, but they have different property owners
as well. But yes, absolutely, if that is the Commission's, you know, this
is, like I said, this is a subset of the parcels that we were looking at,
and if that's of interest, we can certainly look at it.
693
01:29:10.220 --> 01:29:15.200
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Okay, but that is something that potentially
we could add on, and that would be…
694
01:29:15.420 --> 01:29:20.420
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): at least the Safari Kid side of it would be
an office building as opposed to…
695
01:29:21.010 --> 01:29:23.520
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Sort of… street front retail.
696
01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:29.170
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): All right. I think if that was the direction,
too, to focus, if we were…
697
01:29:29.280 --> 01:29:32.010
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Choosing between, say, retail and office that
698
01:29:32.760 --> 01:29:42.470
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): retain retail. If retail preservation is a
higher priority, we could target office, because by no means is this map…
we tried not to eliminate things, but certainly
699
01:29:42.620 --> 01:29:44.030
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You could look at…
700
01:29:44.170 --> 01:29:52.030
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): any of these properties, and I think our goal
is then, again, to try to target property owners to gauge owner interest.
701
01:29:52.035 --> 01:30:00.554
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): My preference would certainly be to target
offices more so than retail, where we can, especially if it is Class C
office, Class B office.
702
01:30:00.865 --> 01:30:11.854
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I don't think we have much Class A office
that would be even a target. They're all mostly Apple buildings, I guess,
these days, or otherwise, but yeah, Class C, to the extent we have any
Class C office, Class B office.
703
01:30:12.215 --> 01:30:19.874
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Along those lines, I noticed that the gas
station at Stevens Creek and Fort Hill was included, I think?
704
01:30:20.560 --> 01:30:30.439
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): I don't believe so. There is a pipeline
project on the southwest corner of Stevens Creek and Foothill, and there
was interest on the northeast corner.
705
01:30:32.650 --> 01:30:36.659
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I guess I'm looking at this map that's
called Central…
706
01:30:36.880 --> 01:30:42.019
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And the southwest corner is right, so is
that just considered part of the retail site, and therefore it's
included?
707
01:30:42.280 --> 01:30:43.460
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): the…
708
01:30:43.460 --> 01:30:47.089
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): if video can share the screen right now…
709
01:30:47.095 --> 01:30:50.595
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): gas station on the southwest corner of
Stevens Creek and De Anza.
710
01:30:53.140 --> 01:31:02.179
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Oh, yes, of De Anza, yes, not Foothill. Yes,
southwest corner of Stevens Creek and De Anza, we included everything as
a retention site, if there was interest in it.
711
01:31:02.185 --> 01:31:08.095
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So is there any reason we couldn't also then
include the other gas stations on De Anza Boulevard in the…
712
01:31:09.085 --> 01:31:12.604
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And maybe that's the direction you're
looking for, but… Yeah, I mean…
713
01:31:12.605 --> 01:31:19.764
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): That could be. There is a newer office
building that's occupied by Apple on the northeast corner, next to the
Valero gas station there.
714
01:31:19.805 --> 01:31:35.865
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Which is why we didn't include that
particular corner, but absolutely, if there was interest, you know,
including all three, there's three parcels. There's a standalone bank
building behind the Valero gas station there, and there's an office
building to the east of it, which is occupied by Apple.
715
01:31:35.865 --> 01:31:38.884
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Yeah, I'd certainly be in support of… of…
of…
716
01:31:39.175 --> 01:31:42.605
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Designating the most expensive gas station
as the
717
01:31:42.925 --> 01:31:48.805
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): designated housing element site, you know,
certainly want to preserve our affordable gas stations.
718
01:31:48.965 --> 01:31:52.604
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): But I wouldn't mind trading unaffordable gas
for affordable housing.
719
01:31:53.875 --> 01:32:09.975
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I just had a quick clarifying question, since
we have this map up. So, the potential priority housing sites, are those
currently counted in any numbers, or are we… these are all new? Just all
new. Okay, and then the non-priority housing sites in blue are also not?
720
01:32:10.365 --> 01:32:27.505
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): They are, not counted in that number that
you saw at the table, but they are projects that we have seen and
approved, or in review right now. So, examples being Dividend 2, and, you
know, we have a project in at an office building on Stevens Creek, which
is the,
721
01:32:27.505 --> 01:32:33.525
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): There's a large office building there that's
in blue and hashed in the middle of the screen right there.
722
01:32:33.680 --> 01:32:39.620
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Okay, and then the red commercial, those are
currently counted in our numbers at the moment? No.
723
01:32:39.625 --> 01:32:58.195
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): There's no number counting on the red at
this point. This is just… these are sites, and if I had to go through
them, there's Homestead Square on the top, there's the Target site, next
to Marina, there is the, Whole Foods site next to that, west of that,
along Stelling and Stevens Creek.
724
01:32:58.445 --> 01:33:02.684
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): On the other side of Target is the
Crossroads development.
725
01:33:02.895 --> 01:33:18.115
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): This also includes the Martisich site, which
is not owned by the same property owner, but that's the, former Sprouts,
market, where the Starbucks is, really. It's not the Sprouts, it's next
to it. And the gas station, as, Commissioner Rao pointed out.
726
01:33:18.235 --> 01:33:25.725
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): South of that is, McClellan Square, which is
where 99 Ranch is, going…
727
01:33:25.855 --> 01:33:35.154
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): counterclockwise, I guess, is Marketplace.
Yes. And then, further east of that is the, main Street. Main Street,
thank you.
728
01:33:35.730 --> 01:33:37.039
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Great, thank you. Vice Chair.
729
01:33:37.970 --> 01:33:43.569
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Did you look at any of the hotels and approve
but not move forward?
730
01:33:43.575 --> 01:33:52.835
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): That's right, we did. They're both on there
on the screen in green, one with a dashed black line through it, because
they have indicated interest in being a housing element site.
731
01:33:52.955 --> 01:33:59.105
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And then the one on De Anza, which we just
put in as a potential… The Goodyear. The Goodyear side, yes.
732
01:33:59.335 --> 01:34:09.835
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay. There's strong owner interest on the
one next to Homestead Village, where the Duke of Edinburgh is. Right.
That was probably the first group that reached out to us to include that.
733
01:34:09.835 --> 01:34:17.574
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And then what about some of the other hotels
that are tucked on the… I guess it's the Northwest…
734
01:34:17.675 --> 01:34:20.625
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): corner of Wolf and 280.
735
01:34:21.095 --> 01:34:23.965
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I mean, those hotels don't seem to be doing
very well.
736
01:34:24.595 --> 01:34:29.564
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I mean, has anyone contacted them to see if
they're interested? We have not.
737
01:34:29.565 --> 01:34:35.184
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): reached out to them, but, you know, if
there's interest from the… if there's direction from the Commission, we
could certainly do that.
738
01:34:35.565 --> 01:34:43.024
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And then I think I heard Cupertino Hotel was
considering going to some kind of long-term… Stays instead of…
739
01:34:43.245 --> 01:34:47.334
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Nightly, because of… the demand, I don't know
if…
740
01:34:47.835 --> 01:34:52.765
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Mr. Vitovich is interested in… You know, any
conversion there.
741
01:34:53.560 --> 01:34:56.309
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We could certainly reach out, I think.
742
01:34:56.760 --> 01:35:04.320
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): major property owners, we probably want to
talk to all of them, because they own multiple properties… Right. That
potentially could,
743
01:35:04.910 --> 01:35:11.789
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I know over time, I haven't heard anything
recently, but I know Aloft at one time was having issues as well, so…
744
01:35:12.560 --> 01:35:15.919
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Hotel conversion would certainly be an
option.
745
01:35:16.500 --> 01:35:20.179
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And then, what about the Joann's site? Is
that… Yes, it is.
746
01:35:20.185 --> 01:35:25.294
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): it's right, west of the, big yellow blob,
for Valco.
747
01:35:25.845 --> 01:35:27.665
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Okay, very good.
748
01:35:28.540 --> 01:35:30.230
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Yeah, and I noticed that, like.
749
01:35:31.550 --> 01:35:36.270
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Johannes is gone, Cupertino Market's gone, I
don't know what is… I think it's being replaced.
750
01:35:36.270 --> 01:35:41.219
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): by another market, at that site. That is my
understanding.
751
01:35:41.490 --> 01:35:47.149
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): But on the issue of hotel conversions, I
will point out that will reduce TOT for the city.
752
01:35:47.155 --> 01:35:47.915
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Yeah, see, I was thinking.
753
01:35:47.915 --> 01:35:52.415
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): I just want to point that out, that that is,
dollars for the city.
754
01:35:52.865 --> 01:36:00.385
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Well, and losing retail, we lose sales tax,
too, but… But to your team, you know, the state's not really concerned.
755
01:36:00.905 --> 01:36:05.085
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): about that. And I do appreciate what you
mentioned earlier, that
756
01:36:05.275 --> 01:36:10.975
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): We're just trying to get to the theoretical
capacity. I don't think anyone expects
757
01:36:11.225 --> 01:36:15.175
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): You know, all this housing to ever be built,
but we need to…
758
01:36:15.295 --> 01:36:19.874
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Rezone enough so, you know, we stay in
compliance with our housing element.
759
01:36:20.395 --> 01:36:22.374
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Was there anything else?
760
01:36:23.935 --> 01:36:30.935
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Oh, this, this was… I guess it's up to the
City Council. So right now, we have 20%
761
01:36:31.195 --> 01:36:38.055
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): requirement for… BMR, and it's… for sale,
it's all moderate income.
762
01:36:38.655 --> 01:36:46.264
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I mean, has anyone ever thought, hey, maybe
we could… Say, if you do low-income
763
01:36:46.415 --> 01:36:48.714
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Maybe it can be a lower percentage.
764
01:36:49.095 --> 01:36:55.295
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): That is also part of, going to be part of
the discussion that we're going to have when we redo our fees.
765
01:36:55.775 --> 01:37:02.724
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Okay. We're gonna look at that to see if
there's any, capacity in the financial performance to do that.
766
01:37:04.610 --> 01:37:07.910
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay, and then one resident mentioned about,
767
01:37:08.870 --> 01:37:16.740
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I think it was the, McClellan project not
having sufficient parking and being concerned about permit parking.
768
01:37:16.980 --> 01:37:20.340
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So what, what does it take for a neighborhood
769
01:37:20.590 --> 01:37:25.150
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): To do permit parking so a new project doesn't
export.
770
01:37:25.910 --> 01:37:28.539
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): They're parking onto adjacent streets.
771
01:37:28.850 --> 01:37:29.430
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I.
772
01:37:29.435 --> 01:37:43.255
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): It's a public works process, but I believe
the neighborhood has to get together and fill out some sort of an
application that is then processed through Public Works and presented to
Council, is my understanding. Okay, all right, thank you.
773
01:37:45.010 --> 01:37:45.870
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rowe?
774
01:37:46.150 --> 01:37:49.420
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Thank you, Chair. So, if we were to…
775
01:37:50.080 --> 01:37:57.140
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): designate De Anza College as a priority
housing element site, and look at putting housing on De Anza College and
upzone it.
776
01:37:57.320 --> 01:38:01.759
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Appropriately, would that count towards the
city's RENA units? No.
777
01:38:02.205 --> 01:38:10.114
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I don't you think HCD would necessarily buy
that unless De Anza had to plan to take 112 acres and make it housing?
778
01:38:10.115 --> 01:38:15.695
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Well, I mean, their parking lots are rather
large, so we could designate, you know, portions of their lot as
779
01:38:16.085 --> 01:38:21.375
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So my… I guess my question is, if it's
property owned by FHDA, but located in the city.
780
01:38:21.675 --> 01:38:25.535
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): do we get credit for the arena units?
781
01:38:25.535 --> 01:38:36.975
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): they would have to have some real… show
interest in doing that. I know Stanford does that with the county,
because Stanford has some sort of an arrangement where they
782
01:38:37.195 --> 01:38:42.915
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): you know, swap units from the county. They
want more, they want fewer, there's arrangements that they have to make.
783
01:38:42.920 --> 01:38:56.190
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Your question is really if they added housing
that would not be like dorms, but actual housing on their campus. I think
we'd get the credit for it. I think dorms are accepted out, though,
there, because it's…
784
01:38:56.540 --> 01:38:59.490
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Student housing on a temporary basis, but…
785
01:39:00.300 --> 01:39:02.410
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): if De Anza wanted to sell off.
786
01:39:02.570 --> 01:39:09.779
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): 10 acres and develop it as housing, because
it is in the city of Cupertino, I don't see why we would not get the
credit for that. Okay, so I would be.
787
01:39:09.785 --> 01:39:11.165
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): supportive of…
788
01:39:11.475 --> 01:39:23.915
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): taking parcels of parking lot and doing a
reasonable density, not something that just dwarfs the rest of Cupertino.
I mean, we do have single-family homes around by Stelling and McClellan
and the schools, so…
789
01:39:24.575 --> 01:39:29.144
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I think part of this exercise is the art of
meeting our numbers.
790
01:39:29.645 --> 01:39:39.334
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Because the more we deliver actually
financeable and buildable projects, the sooner we'll be back doing this
exercise again, because developers
791
01:39:39.445 --> 01:39:41.205
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Wave their affordable units.
792
01:39:42.315 --> 01:39:47.744
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And we have… we have sort of learned that,
you know, no good deed goes unpunished, and that's exactly what we're
dealing with here.
793
01:39:48.710 --> 01:40:06.929
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Yeah, I wanted to follow up on that. I did
just speak with an FHDA board member that had mentioned interest in… in
housing on their properties, and so I think, you know, maybe tonight, out
of this conversation, there could be a motion around just expressing
interest in exploring a partnership, or
794
01:40:06.930 --> 01:40:11.679
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): working with FHDA to see if there is an
opportunity for housing.
795
01:40:12.650 --> 01:40:16.700
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Yeah, through the chair, I go even stronger
than that and just look at…
796
01:40:16.950 --> 01:40:21.990
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): If we designate the site, and we get the
units, and whether they choose to build as their purgator, but…
797
01:40:22.340 --> 01:40:34.519
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): The bigger question in my mind is, what is
the accounting for RENA units when the land is owned by another agency?
And I would extend that question to the school districts as well, if we
built… I'm not saying we shouldn't, but…
798
01:40:34.950 --> 01:40:41.039
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Hypothetically, if some… You know, very low
density, maybe 5 to 10 unit.
799
01:40:41.290 --> 01:40:50.090
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): 5 to 10 DU per acre on a school site,
accommodated housing for, first responder and teachers.
800
01:40:50.590 --> 01:40:54.019
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Such that it didn't overwhelm the
neighborhood. Very, very low density.
801
01:40:54.380 --> 01:40:55.830
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Do we get credit for that?
802
01:40:56.510 --> 01:41:02.850
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yes, you would get credit for that. Pretty
much anything that is an actual housing unit, you would get credit for.
Okay.
803
01:41:02.855 --> 01:41:16.275
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So yeah, definitely want to see if there's
any nuance there, and if there isn't, then we should… I would support De
Anza College as a potential site, because there is large parking lots at
very reasonable, moderate, or whatever densities that…
804
01:41:16.445 --> 01:41:21.265
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): don't dwarf the city skyline and
neighborhoods. Along those lines.
805
01:41:22.045 --> 01:41:28.054
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): What is the accounting for the Wolf Road
teacher housing? That is county land? Does that go to the county, or it
comes to us?
806
01:41:28.585 --> 01:41:31.514
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): comes to us. It's a housing element site,
okay.
807
01:41:31.515 --> 01:41:42.014
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Any units that are generated within the
city, the city will get credit for. Okay. But where they land in terms of
administration, that's a different conversation.
808
01:41:42.015 --> 01:41:48.125
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): In that sense, the county's more like the
developer applicant, but we absolutely get the credit for that. Okay.
809
01:41:48.130 --> 01:41:55.870
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And then, how about the… public land, I
think it's zoned BA, so we have the PG&E Yard.
810
01:41:56.350 --> 01:42:00.810
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I believe we have some other agencies that
have land in Cupertino.
811
01:42:01.290 --> 01:42:02.979
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): By Homestead, I believe, right?
812
01:42:03.150 --> 01:42:08.689
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So how… how would that be accounted? Do we
get credit for those if we were to zone it?
813
01:42:10.090 --> 01:42:20.169
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You would have to change the general plan,
and rezone it, and in that case, I think certainly have owner interest,
because right now, that designation doesn't allow housing at all.
814
01:42:20.460 --> 01:42:22.310
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So…
815
01:42:22.700 --> 01:42:34.769
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): it would be a case of if you wanted to do
that, if the property owner wanted to do that, it would be a matter of
rezoning, changing the general plan, putting in the housing element. But
if the housing is built on it, the city would get the credit.
816
01:42:35.815 --> 01:42:38.075
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And so it would be helpful
817
01:42:38.175 --> 01:42:43.024
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): For the next revision to show those
properties in here. I don't know if the map shows it.
818
01:42:43.490 --> 01:42:55.690
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): You can. Again, HCD may not buy it, because,
you know, to indicate that PG&E would actually remove their substation in
order to build housing. It's an essential facility, from a,
819
01:42:55.860 --> 01:42:59.069
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): utility perspective. We… that would be a
hard…
820
01:42:59.075 --> 01:43:05.274
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Yeah, again, I would not limit it to just
that one site, but look at VA zone sites, particularly
821
01:43:05.645 --> 01:43:07.494
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Agency sites that are…
822
01:43:07.755 --> 01:43:14.815
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): not city-owned at this point. I think
there's one on Homestead, right? I don't know what that site is. Is that
PG&D as well? Yes. Yes.
823
01:43:15.085 --> 01:43:17.074
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah, that's next door to a housing element.
824
01:43:17.075 --> 01:43:29.034
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): If you look at the zoning map, the only BA
sites we have are city properties, the school district, and, utility
sites like PG&E. Okay. That's it.
825
01:43:31.550 --> 01:43:39.690
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Okay, very good. So, just to recap, I think
my preference would be gas stations, the hotels, and De Anza Boulevard,
and De Anza College.
826
01:43:40.410 --> 01:43:40.950
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Lee.
827
01:43:41.170 --> 01:43:52.749
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Can I better understand your gas station's
suggestion? Are you just saying that the gas station would go away and
entirely be replaced by housing, or that it would stay and you would have
housing on one side?
828
01:43:52.755 --> 01:43:57.685
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Typically, I'm willing to do an in-lose swap
of unaffordable gas for affordable housing.
829
01:43:57.865 --> 01:44:04.795
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I would not target our cheapest gas
stations, I would focus on gas stations that are prohibitively
unaffordable.
830
01:44:07.225 --> 01:44:08.135
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): this year?
831
01:44:09.430 --> 01:44:21.749
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I have a question for you. Right, that was
what I was gonna say. What the heck is happening with the 76 station on
the corner of Pacifica and De Anza?
832
01:44:21.755 --> 01:44:23.394
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): It's as good as mine at this point.
833
01:44:23.395 --> 01:44:25.545
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): No, mine is… guess is no good.
834
01:44:25.570 --> 01:44:30.749
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): I will try to find out more, but I haven't
heard any updates on that at this point.
835
01:44:30.755 --> 01:44:33.855
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Yeah, and speak… actually, speaking of that
site, what about the…
836
01:44:34.305 --> 01:44:39.575
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Buildings right behind it, the ways the,
weighs fish, and…
837
01:44:40.075 --> 01:44:48.055
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): There's something else, and there's the
Chamber of Commerce. I mean, that might be a site that's possible.
838
01:44:48.770 --> 01:44:53.550
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): That could very well be a site. We didn't go
down that path because they were single-family homes.
839
01:44:54.040 --> 01:44:57.580
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): along there. Right. It's kind of… it's right
at that mouth.
840
01:44:58.080 --> 01:45:08.969
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): But if it's… the Commission wants us to look
at… again, we're looking for larger sites that, you know, would generate
those numbers. We're not looking… that's not a very large site. Right.
Okay.
841
01:45:10.150 --> 01:45:14.720
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I just wanted to quickly confirm, just north
of 280, since this map is up.
842
01:45:14.830 --> 01:45:21.000
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): To the northwest, that is a church, Valley
Church. Have they approved?
843
01:45:21.735 --> 01:45:32.444
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): last time they wanted to be off, we're just
throwing it back on, you know, to see what the appetite is, and, you
know, see where the Commission and Council want to go.
844
01:45:32.445 --> 01:45:48.485
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Those were the sites that, at the beginning
of the presentation, that came off at the last minute. There were four
lots, and they were actually, in a lot of ways, ideal, because they were
tennis courts, volleyball courts, there were no structures on them, and
we had had owner interest early in the process, so…
845
01:45:49.815 --> 01:45:56.384
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): we… I think it's worth asking again. They
apparently changed their mind last time, maybe it's changed back, because
846
01:45:56.625 --> 01:46:03.184
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): If I remember, I think it was 372 units on 4
lots that we had credit for.
847
01:46:03.725 --> 01:46:04.504
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Thank you.
848
01:46:05.160 --> 01:46:11.189
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Through the chair, I would just add that I
would be opposed to the Valley Church, or any church.
849
01:46:11.540 --> 01:46:26.199
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): being zoned up, but specifically the Valley
Church, because they are also a recreational space. The tennis courts
there are a thriving facility for sports, and more importantly, for
students that are taught tennis at that location, so…
850
01:46:26.330 --> 01:46:33.389
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I would be opposed to taking away our
ability to teach students and to maintain recreational facilities in
Cupertino.
851
01:46:34.440 --> 01:46:36.990
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Okay, do we have any quick questions before…
852
01:46:36.995 --> 01:46:43.484
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Chair. So the Adrian, how many units are
there, and what… I know staff mentioned something about downzoning
Adrian, and what…
853
01:46:44.050 --> 01:46:49.999
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): What does that involve? One house now, but
the max capacity, I think, was 13?
854
01:46:50.270 --> 01:46:55.230
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And before the up zone, I want to say it was
6? 5 or 6. 5 or 6, so…
855
01:46:55.410 --> 01:46:59.809
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): It doubled, but again, we gained the
potential of about 5 or 6 units.
856
01:47:00.530 --> 01:47:07.650
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, were staff looking for a motion to
downzone that tonight, or just directional guidance? Just a study
session.
857
01:47:07.655 --> 01:47:09.155
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): direction.
858
01:47:09.155 --> 01:47:14.695
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And would any future motion then require the
addition of a site with the equal number of units?
859
01:47:15.155 --> 01:47:29.535
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): No, actually, we may not need that for this
site. True. Yeah. Because SB330 requires us to have… we cannot down zone
below what the levels were as of January 1st, 2018.
860
01:47:29.535 --> 01:47:35.224
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Because this was upzoned after that, we do
not need to find any replacements for those units.
861
01:47:36.690 --> 01:47:41.499
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, to clarify, we would not designate it as
a housing element site, but… Right, we would take it off.
862
01:47:41.505 --> 01:47:46.005
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And that's what we would… that's currently
the direction that we were.
863
01:47:46.005 --> 01:47:52.655
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): In anticipation of if there were an
application to be filed, that this would be a contentious project, and
864
01:47:53.125 --> 01:47:58.635
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): In terms of… Benefit to the city, and from
the housing element perspective.
865
01:47:58.825 --> 01:48:01.765
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You're talking 5 units out of thousands.
866
01:48:02.125 --> 01:48:10.815
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And… it is a very difficult site, you can't
really change. It's the end of a cul-de-sac,
867
01:48:11.035 --> 01:48:16.704
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And I know having looked at photos where you
have, garbage and recycling pickup day.
868
01:48:17.005 --> 01:48:20.744
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): It's already a very difficult street to get
in and out of, so…
869
01:48:21.225 --> 01:48:28.985
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): It's probably a lot that just doesn't have a
lot of potential, certainly for… the difficulty.
870
01:48:29.085 --> 01:48:30.714
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That it would be to approve a project.
871
01:48:30.965 --> 01:48:38.004
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And then my last question here, real quick.
So, I'm looking at the map of De Anza Boulevard, north of…
872
01:48:38.955 --> 01:48:44.325
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I guess, north of Stevens Creek, northwest,
the western side.
873
01:48:44.915 --> 01:48:50.764
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Large parts of the western side are not
being Designated as potential sites.
874
01:48:51.005 --> 01:48:56.365
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): But much of that are office properties, so
would like to see that. Is there any reason it wasn't?
875
01:48:56.675 --> 01:48:57.324
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Most of the.
876
01:48:57.325 --> 01:48:59.914
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Those buildings are occupied and leased by
Apple.
877
01:49:00.335 --> 01:49:05.495
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So we didn't throw those on there, because
they do have long-term leases on many of those buildings.
878
01:49:06.160 --> 01:49:12.140
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So there's a property that is opposite the
gas station that is fenced off right now, I think it is the old Outback.
879
01:49:12.820 --> 01:49:14.830
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): That is owned by the county.
880
01:49:15.580 --> 01:49:16.320
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Nothing.
881
01:49:16.420 --> 01:49:26.959
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): That, yeah, that, that was, that is property
that is owned by the county, and I believe that might be, the subject of
some sort of, real estate deal that the county is working out.
882
01:49:27.600 --> 01:49:30.110
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And so the thought process is, if a building
is…
883
01:49:30.660 --> 01:49:37.010
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): is leased or occupied by Apple, we would not
touch it, but we just did that with the Panera site, right?
884
01:49:37.860 --> 01:49:41.560
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And with the… yeah, with the Panera site, I
guess. Right.
885
01:49:41.565 --> 01:49:52.225
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): is under the state law purposes, right? I
mean, at this point, we're looking at sites to make the numbers, and if
we want to include as many sites as possible, we could.
886
01:49:52.405 --> 01:49:59.904
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): But, again, if we're at the 65 to 20 units
to the acre range, we may not need more than 20 acres. Yeah, I would… I
would definitely.
887
01:49:59.905 --> 01:50:10.065
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): We support the corridor on that stretch to
be included, partly because we just have a precedent with the harvest
properties, I think was the site.
888
01:50:10.295 --> 01:50:12.505
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): That changed use from Apple to…
889
01:50:12.865 --> 01:50:16.305
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): To, to something else, and partly also
because…
890
01:50:16.455 --> 01:50:22.074
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): This is a numbers exercise, and so if the
lot owner in the future wants to do something, it's their purgative.
891
01:50:22.455 --> 01:50:27.115
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): But, you know, this is a corridor with no
residences adjacent to it, and…
892
01:50:27.375 --> 01:50:30.755
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): We should make advan… take advantage of it
if we… if we can.
893
01:50:31.980 --> 01:50:43.079
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Sure, and I do want to… yeah, we can, and I
do want to reiterate that HCD doesn't see this as a paper exercise, I
just want to be clear about that. They do want us to find sites that
would get developed. Right, and I think it's a…
894
01:50:43.230 --> 01:50:46.850
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Actually, a precedent we have, harvest
properties just changed from
895
01:50:47.220 --> 01:50:51.139
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): what is it, 100-something homes now? 110?
896
01:50:51.145 --> 01:51:01.234
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): 122, I think, on there. But again, they
harvest… controlled the site and wanted to develop, so that's always the
trick of if you have
897
01:51:01.825 --> 01:51:10.795
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): a large employer with a lease, because we
went through this in the housing element the last time, you have to show
the feasibility, and now the window's 2031, which is close.
898
01:51:11.225 --> 01:51:17.575
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So you have to show some short-term
development potential. It might be tough to convince HCD
899
01:51:17.835 --> 01:51:20.314
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): of office buildings occupied by Apple.
900
01:51:20.635 --> 01:51:23.195
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That they're gonna develop as housing in the
short term.
901
01:51:23.705 --> 01:51:28.194
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So if it were leased, If the property were
leased, not owned by Apple.
902
01:51:28.605 --> 01:51:32.145
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Wouldn't that be similar to the harvest
property? What is the difference?
903
01:51:32.815 --> 01:51:46.715
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): You know, HCD can actually get down to the
level of requiring lease documents and things like that to indicate
whether there is a potential for it to redevelop, and they have done that
to other jurisdictions in identifying sites. Okay.
904
01:51:48.280 --> 01:52:06.720
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Commissioner Winskalk. Yeah, so staying on
De Anza for a second, and Stevens Creek, actually, there's several
single-story banks, that… there's a Chase, I think it's a Washington…
well, it's a Chase now, right? It used to be Washington Mutual, or is it
now Washington Mutual? It's Chase. It's Chase, okay.
905
01:52:06.720 --> 01:52:11.520
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): That one. And, there's a Wells Fargo,
there's… and they… they back onto…
906
01:52:11.520 --> 01:52:21.909
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): office space behind them, so they would be
prime for redeveloping and, you know, without affecting any single-family
residences. There is that…
907
01:52:22.270 --> 01:52:36.460
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): It used to be a barbecue place. Oh, the Pho
Hanoi, used to be Willy's Barbecue, right? Again, single, single story,
you know, with… with office behind it,
908
01:52:36.640 --> 01:52:54.199
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): I mean, you know, worst comes to worse, we
can keep the bank on the ground floor and, you know, put retail… I mean,
residences on top. You know, we are seeing examples of, you know, like,
there's a big hullabaloo in San Francisco right now where the Safeway
909
01:52:54.200 --> 01:53:07.339
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): is building, housing on top of their
Safeways, right? So, is that something that's an opportunity for us to
explore? Looking at our single-story grocery stores, like our Ranch 99s,
and our Trader Joe's, and…
910
01:53:07.480 --> 01:53:11.510
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): No, Trader Joe's is not on ours, but… Yeah,
I mean, that.
911
01:53:11.515 --> 01:53:21.265
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): That is actually what, Kimco was proposing,
was to relocate 99 Ranch up closer to Homestead and build housing on top
of it. That was their…
912
01:53:21.895 --> 01:53:28.805
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): goal, at least from what we had understood
when we last talked to them. So, that is absolutely possible, and, you
know, if…
913
01:53:28.825 --> 01:53:41.404
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): The banks that you're talking about back
onto Marina Plaza, I will say there's a very small office building on
that block that actually did not want to be included in the housing
element last time, pretty vociferously, we were told.
914
01:53:41.405 --> 01:53:52.854
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): But if there is interest in, looking at
those three bank buildings that front Stevens Creek, which are Chase,
Bank of America, and, California Land and Trust… There's also Indiana.
915
01:53:53.710 --> 01:53:57.300
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Wells Fargo and Chase. Amir Rodriguez?
916
01:53:57.305 --> 01:54:16.515
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Yeah. Yeah, and that is, some of that is on
here, except for the, the Chase building is adjacent to a building that I
believe Amazon leases or owns, so just that one Chase site would probably
not develop. We'd have to look at that entire block at that point, or
half that block at that point.
917
01:54:16.535 --> 01:54:27.575
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): But yes, we are looking at the three office
buildings that were actually recently for sale, on Rodriguez, and we
could certainly include, the
918
01:54:27.825 --> 01:54:31.415
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): the, Wells Fargo at the corner there. Okay.
919
01:54:31.720 --> 01:54:44.029
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): So, one of the things that I would really
like us to do as an exercise is, think about the concept of retail
clusters, because I think one of the reasons, and there is a lot of data
behind this, that
920
01:54:44.030 --> 01:54:59.770
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Retail thrives only when it is close to
other retail, so there's kind of this virtuous loop that happens. And we
are seeing a lot of small businesses in our city that struggle because
they're basically just spread out, right? It's like, it's the sprawl of
921
01:54:59.830 --> 01:55:16.309
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): individual little retail that's just, you
know, basically you have to drive there to that specific retail, and
that's setting a very high bar for our small businesses to be able to
succeed. So if, you know, in terms of how we're thinking about
922
01:55:16.750 --> 01:55:25.049
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): kind of our overall city strategy. If we can
think of where we want to create retail clusters, and then we
923
01:55:25.050 --> 01:55:40.620
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): You know, we set zoning standards and
policies based on that, where we, we lock in the commercial and retail
use surrounded by, or, or, you know, above it or around it, more high
density.
924
01:55:40.620 --> 01:55:47.880
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): To make that retail successful, and… and
basically create these clusters of, like.
925
01:55:47.910 --> 01:55:56.830
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): of, like, retail and commercial around the
city, and focus our efforts around, you know, what… how we, look at what
926
01:55:56.830 --> 01:56:11.819
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): properties we upzone to try and create these
clusters, because I think that would set up our small businesses to
succeed, as well as, you know, help us meet our RENA targets, but in a
more strategic manner.
927
01:56:14.680 --> 01:56:26.290
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Yeah, I would certainly add, to your point,
you know, creating a cluster, you know, we had a discussion with the
change at the site, which includes Panera, you know, what happened with
the coffee shop.
928
01:56:26.520 --> 01:56:38.960
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): You know, if you found areas, again, if you…
if you had an index kind of model, if you found areas that… where there
was going to be some, impact on single-family homes, they may find that
929
01:56:39.060 --> 01:56:45.920
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): You know, having a retail area there may be
something that was more acceptable to them than having a very, very tall,
930
01:56:47.360 --> 01:57:02.259
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): building where what they… I mean, you know,
I think the kind of feedback we get from some of the… some of the pros
of, like… like the Oaks, is that what you're bringing is traffic, you
know, traffic with nothing to do. And this… this, you know, gives the
opportunity. I would… I would definitely say the biggest challenge
931
01:57:02.450 --> 01:57:09.979
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): It's exactly what, Commissioner Lenscogg
said, you know, everything is so spread out, you could… you would never
walk from one place to another.
932
01:57:10.090 --> 01:57:20.689
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): And nobody… nobody can be successful because
it's too hard to park. But if you put a bunch of people together, you
create an environment that you may be able to… if you can solve the
parking, then you may be able to,
933
01:57:20.840 --> 01:57:22.749
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Allow those places to thrive.
934
01:57:25.080 --> 01:57:40.930
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I had a quick follow-up question on the idea
that, Commissioner Lindskog mentioned around, the housing on top of the
retail. So, the staff presentation, proposed sort of splitting the
zoning, you know, densifying residential on one side and then keeping the
commercial on the other, but does that…
935
01:57:41.470 --> 01:57:50.139
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Possibly include for the idea of just
building residential on top of commercial, or, like, how does that get
zoned for, if at all?
936
01:57:52.560 --> 01:57:56.820
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): It's a great question, honestly. Housing law
doesn't…
937
01:57:57.820 --> 01:58:04.650
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): To the extent that a developer possibly
wants to do that, they will do it, but if they don't.
938
01:58:04.940 --> 01:58:21.619
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): they just… there's an incentive for it. So
we can have those policies and hope that developers will want to do, you
know, precisely what you're saying, have vertical integration, you know,
vertical… vertical mixed use, but,
939
01:58:22.430 --> 01:58:27.250
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): it's gonna be harder to… to enforce. I mean,
you know, you…
940
01:58:27.950 --> 01:58:34.410
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): cities can't really make it a requirement
unless they propose it themselves and integrate that into their project.
941
01:58:34.415 --> 01:58:38.175
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Just to follow up on that, Santana Road did
that very successfully. Right.
942
01:58:38.175 --> 01:58:38.915
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Voluntarily.
943
01:58:38.920 --> 01:58:44.270
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Yes. Voluntarily. Yes. So, is there… are
there any lessons learned from there that we can…
944
01:58:44.790 --> 01:58:47.169
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): That we can bring over? Luke, since he was…
945
01:58:47.175 --> 01:58:50.235
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Party to that development.
946
01:58:51.170 --> 01:59:00.650
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Well, I know initially after Federal Realty
did it, they thought they lost everything and said they'd never do it
again. But I know they also opened with…
947
01:59:01.460 --> 01:59:12.239
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): retail going in and no restaurants, so I
remember going through to see what it looked like, and it was a ghost
town, and that changed pretty quickly as the restaurants came online. I
think the other…
948
01:59:12.460 --> 01:59:17.170
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The other issue with Santana Row is how many
of them can you have within an area?
949
01:59:17.650 --> 01:59:23.280
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And, I mean, I know having grown up here, the
mall expanded at the same time.
950
01:59:23.500 --> 01:59:26.180
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Santana Row replaced Town & Country Village.
951
01:59:26.600 --> 01:59:31.370
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And as soon as that happened, that… Killed
Valco, Oak Ridge…
952
01:59:31.640 --> 01:59:39.429
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): all the other retail centers that were doing
well up until that time, it pulled everything away. It became such a
regional draw.
953
01:59:39.550 --> 01:59:45.289
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I mean, in a sense, you know, Main Street's
sort of a version of that. You have housing
954
01:59:45.570 --> 01:59:47.349
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Adjacent to it, but…
955
01:59:48.210 --> 01:59:55.730
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): There just seems to be, from conversations we
have had, a lot less appetite to do that kind of mixed use.
956
01:59:55.900 --> 02:00:05.200
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Even though people see Santana Rose very
successful, it's crowded, it's a destination, I mean, people come from
counties away and stay over at the hotel.
957
02:00:05.205 --> 02:00:10.534
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Right, and to be clear, I'm not saying we
build the next antenna row, right? We're not looking for that kind of…
958
02:00:10.535 --> 02:00:11.965
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): version of…
959
02:00:11.965 --> 02:00:18.984
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): So, yeah, so that's where I was kind of
going also with the retail clusters, right? If you create kind of a…
960
02:00:19.675 --> 02:00:21.725
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): what's the word I want?
961
02:00:22.105 --> 02:00:26.054
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): You create that, that, multiplier effect.
962
02:00:26.055 --> 02:00:44.185
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Right? Where the density brings in more
customers, the retail is clustered… Critical mass. Yeah, it's a critical
mass kind of thing, on a small scale, but you kind of create these
clusters all around the city in a more deliberative manner, and then we
focus the density around them on the main corridors.
963
02:00:44.185 --> 02:00:49.315
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): I think that would be a more strategic way
to approach it than to just, kind of.
964
02:00:49.475 --> 02:01:02.674
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): do a scattershot, which, you know, which I
understand why we're doing it right now, but it feels kind of scattershot
and opportunistic and reactive, versus being proactive and strategic. So,
two things.
965
02:01:02.675 --> 02:01:05.115
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Things to that, you know,
966
02:01:07.385 --> 02:01:18.465
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Any downzoning that the city does has to be
accompanied with upzoning. So, which is part of the reason why it appears
a little scattershot, because we're presenting it right now, because this
is an opportunity.
967
02:01:18.465 --> 02:01:35.125
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So, that clearly is one reason why, it looks
like that. The other thing that I will say, I mean, you know, in terms of
maybe encouraging the retail, is that you have a certain density, you
know, you take away the density on one part of this site.
968
02:01:35.125 --> 02:01:44.204
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And put it all on one part, let's say. But
then you might want to have some sort of an overlay that basically says,
if you provided this much retail.
969
02:01:44.205 --> 02:01:57.994
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Then you open up a different density
bracket. That could be an idea. It's just… I'm just ad-libbing here
because I haven't thought about it, but that, you know, is a general plan
policy that allows you to maybe open that door if you…
970
02:01:58.215 --> 02:02:16.025
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): provided XYZ. And I… I don't know how, but…
but that might be a program, but you still don't have any residential
designation. I mean, there's a lot of legal stuff that'll have to go
around that, but that is an opportune… maybe a possibility.
971
02:02:16.460 --> 02:02:30.579
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Yeah, I… yeah, by all means, I know we
haven't thought through the details of it, but… but starting to think in
a more proactive and strategic manner, I think, would be beneficial to
the city as a whole, so just, you know, something to think about.
972
02:02:32.080 --> 02:02:40.109
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Great. So we have been going for 2 hours now,
so I'm going to briefly adjourn for a 5-minute break, and then we'll
return. Thank you.
973
02:08:53.670 --> 02:08:56.490
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): May everyone please return. Thank you.
974
02:09:51.820 --> 02:10:00.290
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): All right, thank you very much. We will now
resume the Planning Commission meeting and go back to more questions from
the Commission. Commissioner Rao?
975
02:10:00.820 --> 02:10:01.130
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Thank you, Chair.
976
02:10:01.135 --> 02:10:05.965
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Sure. So I noticed staff had the villagers
Prometheus on this.
977
02:10:06.175 --> 02:10:07.745
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): As a potential site.
978
02:10:08.015 --> 02:10:14.795
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I would like to offer up the McClellan
Terrace at a low density as a potential site.
979
02:10:15.385 --> 02:10:18.895
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): The reason being that's a 1960s vintage
property.
980
02:10:20.095 --> 02:10:25.655
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Several reports of leaks from current
occupants in recent… Tenants that left.
981
02:10:25.985 --> 02:10:34.305
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So lots of problems to that site, as I've
heard, so there's potential for a 1960s property to hit end of life at
some point shortly, so…
982
02:10:34.725 --> 02:10:47.104
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Again, I would keep it at the lowest density
possible. I think it's 17 DU per acre right now, as currently built, and
I would try to keep it at 5 to 20, or whatever is the minimal we can do.
We want to be very sensitive to McClellan Road.
983
02:10:47.485 --> 02:10:54.555
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): But if we can keep it as low-rise housing,
that is basically rebuilding to a more modern product.
984
02:10:55.055 --> 02:10:56.894
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): That's an option to think about.
985
02:10:59.725 --> 02:11:01.104
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I think your mic is off.
986
02:11:03.040 --> 02:11:19.479
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Can you hear me? Yeah, there we go. The
McClellan Terrace property that was recently purchased by the Foothill De
Anza District, that already allows densities of up to 20 dwelling units
to the acre. I'm not sure if the Commission would be interested in
upzoning that even further.
987
02:11:19.800 --> 02:11:26.549
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): That wasn't the proposal. The proposal was
to just put it as a PHS, or a potential PHS, or whatever the color code
in the map.
988
02:11:26.555 --> 02:11:34.054
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): we would only get credit for the difference
of what they could put on there. We won't get credit for all the units on
there. Oh, I see.
989
02:11:34.055 --> 02:11:36.974
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So then the villages that are shown here…
990
02:11:37.630 --> 02:11:52.740
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): The village is… But you're saying no
recommendation, okay. Yeah, we have no recommendation on that. That is
the, recreational facility for the apartment complex. It has, I believe,
two tennis courts there, sports center and community hall, etc, etc.
991
02:11:52.740 --> 02:12:07.229
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And there was a verbal conversation in which
the Prometheus developers were interested in putting units on it, and so
they wanted to be upzoned for that particular site by removing those
amenities.
992
02:12:07.235 --> 02:12:09.534
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Maybe we could show some of these sites as…
993
02:12:09.785 --> 02:12:16.974
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): potential housing unit sites with the
incentive for ADUs to add units. I know there's a fair amount of space on
Mecklein Terrace.
994
02:12:16.975 --> 02:12:17.734
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): credit for.
995
02:12:17.735 --> 02:12:23.354
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): ADUs as a priority housing site. That is a
separate category that's already accounted for.
996
02:12:23.685 --> 02:12:24.724
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you.
997
02:12:26.260 --> 02:12:34.219
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I had one follow-up question from the public
comments. What is the status of the, McClellan townhome project?
998
02:12:36.080 --> 02:12:37.159
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): It's in review.
999
02:12:38.720 --> 02:12:58.550
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And would there be an opportunity to
potentially encourage the developer to change their zoning to a lower
zoning, understanding that their SB330 application was originally
submitted, but just, to see if there's interest?
1000
02:12:58.555 --> 02:13:04.674
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): which would be a courtesy conversation, and
we've had that conversation with him in the past. There hasn't been
interest. Okay, thank you.
1001
02:13:05.830 --> 02:13:06.860
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Vice Chair.
1002
02:13:07.090 --> 02:13:13.090
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Oh, maybe it's on the map. 10275 De Anza,
it's an empty building that's been…
1003
02:13:13.370 --> 02:13:19.240
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): for lease for a long time. There was some…
some… somebody wanted to buy it, and they wouldn't sell.
1004
02:13:19.715 --> 02:13:32.505
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): That's actually the gentleman who just spoke
this evening. There, actually, Alpha X is going to be occupying that
building, and that is on the map, just so you know. It's the northwest…
Oh, okay. Northwest corner of Lazano, and Dean's on the map.
1005
02:13:32.505 --> 02:13:36.284
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): They're leasing that building. Correct. I
see, okay.
1006
02:13:36.915 --> 02:13:37.765
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Oh, well.
1007
02:13:38.930 --> 02:13:42.769
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Through the chair, I had a question about
some of these
1008
02:13:44.390 --> 02:13:52.750
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): locations that border San Jose, we noticed
that San Jose tries to put fairly high density along those lines. Is
there anything on Homestead Road that
1009
02:13:52.880 --> 02:13:55.790
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): is basically facing Sunnyville.
1010
02:13:56.280 --> 02:14:02.290
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): How could we leverage our… Gateway locations
in the city.
1011
02:14:02.290 --> 02:14:03.470
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): So, I believe.
1012
02:14:03.475 --> 02:14:10.305
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): I believe the site that we have at Homestead
and Stelling is already 85 dwellings to the acre.
1013
02:14:10.435 --> 02:14:24.714
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): If there is interest in upzoning that
further, we do not have a zoning category for over 85 dwellings per acre.
We would have to create one, but that is something that, you know, if
there's interest, we could look at. We're also considering.
1014
02:14:24.720 --> 02:14:25.230
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Sorry, if I'm.
1015
02:14:25.235 --> 02:14:28.235
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Postgraph. Which site were you referring to?
1016
02:14:28.235 --> 02:14:31.234
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): yes. You said Homestead and Sterling is…
1017
02:14:31.235 --> 02:14:32.735
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): You could share the screen again?
1018
02:14:32.735 --> 02:14:34.974
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): At the eastern side, which is… It's north.
1019
02:14:34.975 --> 02:14:39.764
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): The southeastern corner of Homestead and
Stelling. Bowling alley. Yes. Okay.
1020
02:14:40.865 --> 02:14:49.725
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And then there are the sites up by Cupertino
Village. Again, you know, there are already… portions of the site are
1021
02:14:50.015 --> 02:15:01.544
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): upzoned to allow the density that they had
requested with the last housing element update. If the Commission wishes
to see more density across the whole site.
1022
02:15:01.785 --> 02:15:06.695
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): You know, I'm not sure what their plans are
for it. We would have to talk to them.
1023
02:15:06.815 --> 02:15:10.474
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Their interest was in actually upzoning only
the hotel site.
1024
02:15:10.685 --> 02:15:13.865
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So, that is on this, the shown in green.
1025
02:15:14.570 --> 02:15:21.040
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Yeah, I think my general… Feedback and
preference would be if we find suitable locations that are
1026
02:15:21.290 --> 02:15:30.080
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): as close to the border with other cities,
let's explore those. Especially on major corridors like Homestead,
Bollinger…
1027
02:15:31.130 --> 02:15:33.159
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Yep. The answer. Yep.
1028
02:15:34.800 --> 02:15:39.939
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Church, wow. I'm a man of faith, so I do not
want to…
1029
02:15:39.945 --> 02:15:46.514
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): What about, Homestead and Blaney, where,
Oakmont and Gochi and…
1030
02:15:46.855 --> 02:15:49.704
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Is that… that's not on the map as a site.
1031
02:15:49.705 --> 02:15:56.295
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): It is not on the map as a site right now,
but if that is where, you know, Commission wishes to see
1032
02:15:56.475 --> 02:15:58.754
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): whether, you know, there's interest in…
Yeah, I mean.
1033
02:15:58.755 --> 02:16:03.204
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): That's legit. I would hate to lose that
retail, it's very popular, but…
1034
02:16:03.205 --> 02:16:09.324
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): This is our thought as well, we didn't add
it on this map, but if the Commission wishes to see it go, then we can
add it.
1035
02:16:10.030 --> 02:16:14.509
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Yeah, I mean, I… I mean, across the street
from there is Sunnyvale. I know they…
1036
02:16:14.740 --> 02:16:19.180
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): There used to be a high school there, they
tore that down and built single-family homes.
1037
02:16:19.460 --> 02:16:27.159
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So… There is some precedent for converting
existing buildings to more housing.
1038
02:16:30.710 --> 02:16:33.200
Community Hall: Do we have any other questions, Commissioner Rao?
1039
02:16:35.260 --> 02:16:39.889
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): The Public Works Service Yard? Do we think
that that's one of the sites that…
1040
02:16:40.299 --> 02:16:43.400
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): No, Director Mosley isn't here tonight, and…
1041
02:16:44.520 --> 02:16:49.930
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Could we… could we make that a mixed-use,
modernized facility where we have housing for staff?
1042
02:16:50.600 --> 02:16:53.570
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I'd love to support 100% affordable housing
for our
1043
02:16:53.990 --> 02:16:59.549
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Our ground… our ground crew, alongside with
the Public Works Service Yard.
1044
02:16:59.750 --> 02:17:01.229
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): It's an interesting idea.
1045
02:17:03.160 --> 02:17:05.530
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I'll make a motion to include that if you'd
like.
1046
02:17:07.600 --> 02:17:14.210
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah, we may need to demonstrate to HCD that
that's in the CIP and budgeted, but we could see.
1047
02:17:17.299 --> 02:17:19.279
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I'll just throw it out there, it's an
option.
1048
02:17:20.229 --> 02:17:23.059
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Doesn't impact anybody, it's right by the
freeway.
1049
02:17:23.229 --> 02:17:27.059
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): the good location. It's a single floor right
now, it could go higher.
1050
02:17:28.059 --> 02:17:32.149
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Things we could do. So, where would you move
the service yard to Sunnyvale, or what?
1051
02:17:32.150 --> 02:17:39.409
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Well, I was thinking, high-rise mixed-use,
where we could put some housing on top of that, and find ways to use that
lot.
1052
02:17:40.090 --> 02:17:44.900
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): They need land for the trucks and all, I
can't see… Well, hold on.
1053
02:17:44.905 --> 02:17:49.424
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I'll probably assign some numbers, and if it
doesn't develop, we at least got the numbers.
1054
02:17:51.670 --> 02:17:54.110
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Do we have any other questions from the
Commission?
1055
02:17:55.070 --> 02:18:02.830
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Okay, then I think, it would be helpful, City
Attorney, can I confirm? We can make motions for this, just for
recommendations?
1056
02:18:04.620 --> 02:18:07.220
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Hey, Chair, I just understood from,
1057
02:18:07.320 --> 02:18:10.790
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): the planning manager pew, that the items
coming back here to the.
1058
02:18:10.799 --> 02:18:11.819
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): any commission.
1059
02:18:12.099 --> 02:18:16.329
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Again, so… they've taken copious notes, I
think that might be adequate.
1060
02:18:16.899 --> 02:18:22.899
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): I mean, otherwise, if it's going to the
council, then, you know, perhaps you can make a recommendation to them,
but it's not going to the Council.
1061
02:18:23.259 --> 02:18:24.919
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Okay, then if…
1062
02:18:26.120 --> 02:18:35.479
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Okay, then we'll move on to comments then,
and if anyone feels strongly about something, they can make a motion. But
otherwise, comments are probably sufficient.
1063
02:18:35.705 --> 02:18:41.514
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, you'll bring us back, like, a list of
sites based on everything we talked about?
1064
02:18:41.785 --> 02:18:44.115
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Today, with recommended densities.
1065
02:18:46.440 --> 02:18:47.920
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Or, what's the next step?
1066
02:18:48.330 --> 02:18:51.440
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think we do want to start focusing on…
1067
02:18:51.660 --> 02:18:55.630
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Particular sites, and if we start owner
interest as well.
1068
02:18:56.889 --> 02:19:02.920
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think one of the challenges, having gone
through this before, is not to have meetings where the number of sites
grows.
1069
02:19:03.139 --> 02:19:07.520
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Because I did happen, to some extent, 4 years
ago.
1070
02:19:07.889 --> 02:19:10.160
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And I think in this case, we're not…
1071
02:19:10.660 --> 02:19:19.529
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): the focus is, unless I'm hearing differently,
I don't think people want to over-add. I think we're trying to get the
housing element in compliance.
1072
02:19:19.670 --> 02:19:20.700
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So…
1073
02:19:21.709 --> 02:19:27.490
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): we've taken notes on what we've heard, but I
think to try to focus that, because even what we've shown here is…
1074
02:19:28.040 --> 02:19:30.429
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Far more sites than we even have in the
housing element.
1075
02:19:30.434 --> 02:19:36.254
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): But it's not going to be sending a letter to
someone. I think that was an issue before.
1076
02:19:36.804 --> 02:19:41.924
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): A letter was sent, there was no response, so
it was just… site was…
1077
02:19:42.094 --> 02:19:47.354
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): well, forget it. I mean, you really have to
engage with these landowners directly.
1078
02:19:47.614 --> 02:19:50.674
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): If you can even find out who owns it. I
agree.
1079
02:19:50.675 --> 02:19:54.445
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And that's the difficulty in some. People who
are motivated.
1080
02:19:54.785 --> 02:20:00.325
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Hear about it and contact you, and sometimes
some of the landowners are difficult to get ahold of.
1081
02:20:00.955 --> 02:20:07.494
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But I also think there are… if there are some
sites in particular, like we had talked about, the two hotels you had
brought up.
1082
02:20:07.915 --> 02:20:10.835
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We know those projects are not going forward
anymore.
1083
02:20:11.095 --> 02:20:15.364
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We've been told the developments agreements
on those have lapsed, so…
1084
02:20:15.945 --> 02:20:26.705
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Those would be good candidates to be on the
list, in my mind, because we know, though, that there had been concern
about loss of TOT, but those hotels aren't going to get built.
1085
02:20:27.275 --> 02:20:33.614
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So… We will… yes, we will definitely be
coming back with
1086
02:20:33.755 --> 02:20:39.725
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): sites, and I think trying to focus as much as
we can on the sites that make the most sense.
1087
02:20:40.185 --> 02:20:46.875
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): also listening to what you said today, to
look at those, and I think we also want to…
1088
02:20:47.405 --> 02:20:52.685
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): discussed with our consultant, who's got a
lot more experience dealing with HCD,
1089
02:20:53.125 --> 02:21:00.504
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): as to how viable the sites are gonna be, but
I think… I think the goal is to try to focus the discussion. Like you
said, we could be talking about
1090
02:21:00.825 --> 02:21:02.985
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): 10 to 20 acres only.
1091
02:21:03.325 --> 02:21:05.215
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): In order to make this work.
1092
02:21:05.535 --> 02:21:12.505
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Again, if we're talking about much lower
densities, the acreage is gonna go up, and the number of sites is gonna
go up, and…
1093
02:21:12.935 --> 02:21:18.345
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): In my view, that also doesn't address the
problem, because we're not going to capture low-income units at low
density.
1094
02:21:19.220 --> 02:21:29.750
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And the issue might be, in the event that
those sites do develop at those really low densities, now we've lost
those sites, because we're… the seventh cycle is looming upon us. Yeah.
1095
02:21:31.090 --> 02:21:33.989
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): So, if I can just comment,
1096
02:21:34.180 --> 02:21:47.840
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Yeah, I mean, I would just encourage you to
do more of a top-down rather than a bottom-up, and be a little bit more
strategic about some level of city planning, like, where do we want to
take our city?
1097
02:21:47.990 --> 02:21:49.790
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Versus, you know.
1098
02:21:49.900 --> 02:22:02.399
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): right now, I think we're a little bit into
what's available, right? But just kind of trying to think about where do
we want… what do we want our city to look like, and what is our goal at
the end of the day, and just…
1099
02:22:02.620 --> 02:22:22.349
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): you know, like we… like I was talking about
the retail clusters, right? Like, we want to activate our small
businesses. How do we help them? How do we use this exercise to help our
small businesses, to concentrate some of that density? So just do a
little bit more strategic exercise, and hopefully, you know, if we are
creating
1100
02:22:22.350 --> 02:22:30.179
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): opportunities like that, it might get more
homeowners, I mean, property owners excited about participating.
1101
02:22:30.180 --> 02:22:49.899
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Versus right now, there's… there's not a lot
of incentive for them, right? I mean, every… everybody's making a
decision on their own, but there's no, like you were saying, like,
critical mass. But if we create opportunity for critical mass, that might
be a way to get more property owners to get off the fence and say, this
sounds like something cool that I want to get involved in.
1102
02:22:49.900 --> 02:22:53.939
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): So just, you know, I would encourage you to
do more of the top-down.
1103
02:22:53.945 --> 02:23:02.275
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): If I may, I mean, you raise a very good
point, right? I mean, right now, this is… here's what's available, right?
So…
1104
02:23:02.785 --> 02:23:09.404
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): one of… one of the things that would be
helpful for us to know from the Commission, whether there's interest in
maybe looking at
1105
02:23:09.715 --> 02:23:27.815
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): densifying around retail centers to be able
to support that retail that exists, for example, whether that's around
Main Street, whether that's around Crossroads, whether that's around
McClellan Square. So kind of, you know, maybe say, you know, look at
sites around these particular retail developments.
1106
02:23:28.035 --> 02:23:32.184
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): and look to see whether those can be
densified first. I mean…
1107
02:23:32.185 --> 02:23:35.425
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): That's exactly right, that's exactly what
I'm talking about. And if that's the direction.
1108
02:23:35.430 --> 02:23:44.029
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): rather than, you know, look here, you know,
and this site's not there. That's… you know, now we're adding to the
list, like Luke says, but if the…
1109
02:23:44.070 --> 02:24:03.249
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): If the direction given is, you know, here
are the retail sites that, you know, are genuinely loved by the
community, and, you know, how can we support that? We can support that by
densifying the uses around it. Then that's something that, if the
Commission tells us to do, we can present a list of sites with that
knowledge and that thought.
1110
02:24:05.050 --> 02:24:11.200
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): So I wanted to kind of, share some… It's
okay.
1111
02:24:11.200 --> 02:24:12.399
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Oh, sorry. It's okay.
1112
02:24:12.400 --> 02:24:16.309
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Okay, I'll be quick. So, I wanted to share… I
had…
1113
02:24:16.530 --> 02:24:25.520
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): done some looking at the very comprehensive
site list that you had put together, and I had some thoughts.
1114
02:24:26.410 --> 02:24:29.680
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Let me just bring this to slideshow.
1115
02:24:30.130 --> 02:24:34.469
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): So… I highlighted in green the sites that I…
1116
02:24:34.500 --> 02:24:49.259
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): kind of more prefer to upzone, and I kind of
boxed and reads the ones that I would be hesitant about. And I think I
thought about it similar to Commissioner Fung, in a matrix of, you know,
how you would score these sites.
1117
02:24:49.260 --> 02:25:03.150
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I think some of these are… the ones in green
are not close to, or not immediately adjacent to any single-family homes,
and they are also in central thoroughfares, fully caveating that not all
of these
1118
02:25:03.150 --> 02:25:19.770
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): potential housing sites have even agreed to
upzone, to be residential, but if they did, you know, these, I think, are
the sites that would be least controversial, and you could potentially
put more density on, and no one would be objecting. Because, you know, I
think I…
1119
02:25:19.770 --> 02:25:39.489
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I took the staff report to heart in the sense
that if we are going to upzone a few properties higher, then it can avoid
us from having to just sprawl the upzoning all over the city. So if I was
to pick a few concentrated sites, it would be sites like this. And then
in red, I boxed
1120
02:25:40.700 --> 02:25:51.239
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): these are sites that are trickier because
they actually do serve the community. So the one that's… I pointed an
arrow at that's a dental.
1121
02:25:53.100 --> 02:26:12.669
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): there… this is a complex that has a number of
dental sites, and my understanding of the reason why they have… they are
located there, because my dentist is there, so we've asked them, is that
their equipment is there, and that's why they all prefer to be there. And
so, you know, to… to change that zoning, I think you would
1122
02:26:12.910 --> 02:26:31.510
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): it's kind of hard to just shift that zoning
around and say we would have dental on one side and residential on the
other. I think they're kind of fixed in the places that they're located.
Potentially, you could build on top of them, but I'm not sure that you
could just move them. And then, same with the…
1123
02:26:32.180 --> 02:26:36.649
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): The most southern cluster of,
1124
02:26:36.800 --> 02:26:54.580
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): potential housing sites, right next to
Bollinger. I did look on… online, and that is a pretty highly utilized
retail site right now. I saw very low vacancies. I think I saw one
vacancy total, actually, for both of those highlighted in red. So…
1125
02:26:54.580 --> 02:27:01.889
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): you know, I think these sites I would be a
little more hesitant to turn into housing because they… they seem to be
in demand from
1126
02:27:01.890 --> 02:27:21.800
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): businesses, and the community. And then going
along Stevens Creek, the other ones I put in red, I'm actually not sure,
I think I welcome thoughts from the Commission, but, the St. Joseph
Square, that one does have a number of new businesses that just moved in,
and I think it'd be a little bit unfortunate to
1127
02:27:22.280 --> 02:27:35.010
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): to just uproot them, so whatever… if it did
become a housing site, it would certainly need to be one that found a way
to protect the… that retail. And then, next to Valco, you have
1128
02:27:35.010 --> 02:27:49.329
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Chuck E. Cheese, which is basically the only
entertainment… one of the few entertainment places in the entire city
that Cupertino has. So, not saying no to this type of site, but, you
know, if there was some retail upzoning
1129
02:27:49.330 --> 02:27:55.750
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): ideally, there would be a way to protect
that… that retail. And with that, I see Commissioner Rao have some
comments.
1130
02:27:55.755 --> 02:28:00.235
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Chair, could you clarify, or zoom in, so we
can understand what is St. Joseph's Square?
1131
02:28:00.860 --> 02:28:07.549
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Or where is it? The one that… sorry, that's
the one that my mouse is hovering over right now. So, St. Joseph's Church
is at the
1132
02:28:07.780 --> 02:28:21.430
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): kind of at the corner, not exactly, of
Stevens Creek and De Anza, and then I think it owns a bunch of that land,
or I'm not sure, actually. It's just labeled St. Joseph's Square on the
map. It's the one in…
1133
02:28:21.435 --> 02:28:25.934
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): For some reason, when I zoom… when I zoom
it, I lose it on the…
1134
02:28:25.935 --> 02:28:28.174
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): That's where the arrow was pointing to.
1135
02:28:28.175 --> 02:28:28.935
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): I think.
1136
02:28:28.935 --> 02:28:31.935
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): What streets are those? I can't see any
streets.
1137
02:28:31.935 --> 02:28:34.174
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Steve… He's like Lisa.
1138
02:28:34.175 --> 02:28:39.434
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): That has the Lee's sandwiches, and there's
some hair and salon there as well.
1139
02:28:39.435 --> 02:28:42.664
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And that's also owned by Vidovich, I believe.
1140
02:28:42.665 --> 02:28:47.835
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And was the chair proposing to encourage the
site as a housing?
1141
02:28:47.840 --> 02:28:51.590
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): No, everything that I boxed in red, I have
hesitation about.
1142
02:28:52.240 --> 02:28:57.700
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I see, but the site currently… is low
density.
1143
02:28:58.410 --> 02:29:00.920
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): single floor, could we…
1144
02:29:01.030 --> 02:29:06.400
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Is there a reason we want to do mixed-use
retail to retain the retail and intensify it?
1145
02:29:06.550 --> 02:29:07.120
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): You could, I…
1146
02:29:07.120 --> 02:29:12.289
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I think that's just not something that you
can mandate, though, so it's hard. Once you change the zoning, you could
get anything.
1147
02:29:13.250 --> 02:29:18.760
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Yes, that's certainly true. And there's a
bigger question of, can we protect retail, I guess.
1148
02:29:19.020 --> 02:29:19.930
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So…
1149
02:29:20.170 --> 02:29:22.339
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Just to kind of… so I think this is…
1150
02:29:22.400 --> 02:29:42.710
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): perfectly… I mean, this is, like, the kind
of input that I think is very valuable as you're thinking about it, so
can we ask you guys to come back to us with some proposed retail clusters
based on all these considerations, like proximity to single-family homes,
or specialized equipment locations, or things like that? Could that be a
good next step?
1151
02:29:46.270 --> 02:30:00.639
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): I think that's fair. I mean, in terms of
trying to create an index, I'm not sure, you know, what that index would
necessarily, indicate, because, like Luke said, almost every site backs
onto. If you have a site in Stevens Creek or De Anza.
1152
02:30:01.070 --> 02:30:08.599
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): almost every one of them backs onto,
residential, except in the North De Anza areas.
1153
02:30:08.600 --> 02:30:22.709
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): with that said, I mean, you know, and then
putting on the hat that you were talking about, you know, the planning
hat of, you know, let's create these, I don't know, 5-minute, 10-minute
walking distance and see what… what sites around retail is available to
Densify.
1154
02:30:23.310 --> 02:30:32.409
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): I think if we just use the 5 that are on
Stevens Creek and, look at Cupertino Village and, Homestead Square.
1155
02:30:32.630 --> 02:30:44.929
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): I think we could meet this exercise of
upzoning. I don't think we need to go beyond that. If that's, you know,
where the Commission wants to head, we can look at that and see what we
come up with.
1156
02:30:45.550 --> 02:30:48.490
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Yeah, maybe even as a possibility, rather
than…
1157
02:30:49.400 --> 02:30:57.540
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): So, you know, with all the discussion in
Santana Row, I would actually say that what you really want to do is
figure out, how do I… how do I ignite a…
1158
02:30:57.760 --> 02:31:00.060
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Downtown Campbell kind of thing, you know.
1159
02:31:00.610 --> 02:31:08.780
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): You, you may not be able to drag, you know,
a… Luxury clothing designer.
1160
02:31:09.070 --> 02:31:12.479
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Will not be incentivized to come here, but a
restaurant will.
1161
02:31:13.180 --> 02:31:21.120
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): And… and that's the kind of thing that I
think people would like to see. So maybe the other way to look at it is,
rather than try to figure out where that would be.
1162
02:31:21.170 --> 02:31:33.280
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I think… I think actually the comment of
doing something on Stevens Creek that makes it advantageous close to Main
Street is actually a great example. I think the place releases, actually,
would probably be one of those as well.
1163
02:31:33.480 --> 02:31:40.940
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I don't know whether there's any, you know,
interest in doing that, but I think perhaps trying to score some of the
places that you were thinking about
1164
02:31:41.060 --> 02:31:46.159
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): So that we can have an illustration of how…
of how those… those sorts of indexes work.
1165
02:31:46.550 --> 02:31:47.829
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Because I think that…
1166
02:31:48.380 --> 02:32:05.870
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): you know, if you slant… if you slant it
pretty hard, the kinds of things you would do at Marina, so again,
obviously, marina is a high potential, there's interest in redeveloping
there, there's, you know, low impact, low neighborhood impact, right? And
that would be true in, like, Homestead, Homestead Square as well.
1167
02:32:06.030 --> 02:32:18.130
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Right. So those kinds of things, you know,
those guys are gonna get an extremely high score, I think an extremely
high score, if, if the right kinds of opportunities could be found there.
1168
02:32:18.135 --> 02:32:33.384
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): certainly rank the site, you know, we can,
like I said, you know, look at potentially… again, this is all… I haven't
even talked to Luke or anyone about this, but, you know, I mean, using, I
don't know, let's use Marketplace as an example, right?
1169
02:32:33.385 --> 02:32:40.445
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Kind of maybe looking at the sites that are
around it, and rank them based on, you know, what…
1170
02:32:40.625 --> 02:32:49.854
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): We think would be appropriate to upzone,
potentially, and do the same exercise for, you know, these 5 or 6 or 7,
1171
02:32:50.585 --> 02:32:51.875
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Retail centers.
1172
02:32:51.875 --> 02:32:55.265
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I think people can kind of understand, even
without having,
1173
02:32:55.395 --> 02:32:59.264
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Even without having a kind of objective
index.
1174
02:32:59.525 --> 02:33:16.464
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): people can kind of understand when you talk
about 4 or 5 places that everybody knows, but the problem is that by the
time this actually turns into a, you know, turns into the thing people
are voting on, there are 30 or 40 sites there. And when you're 20 sites
down, it's very hard to tell. You know, people don't know.
1175
02:33:17.035 --> 02:33:25.024
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): is there… is there high neighborhood impact?
You know, is there suburban neighborhood impact? If you're completely
surrounded by single-family homes.
1176
02:33:25.225 --> 02:33:37.074
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I think that if you have a number that just
kind of captures, hey, you know, this is a… this is a 25 versus… there
are choices here that are 90. Right. So, that will… that will really help
guide. Yeah.
1177
02:33:37.075 --> 02:33:37.645
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): people.
1178
02:33:37.910 --> 02:33:45.899
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Can I just clarify, we're not talking about
upzoning the, you know, major commercial centers themselves, right? We're
talking about sites around them.
1179
02:33:46.610 --> 02:33:47.890
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): potentially, like.
1180
02:33:48.260 --> 02:34:01.249
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Alright, but, you know, we could
potentially, if it's possible, do, like, what we were talking about,
where you preserve the retail on the ground floor and build above it. So,
I mean, I think that's…
1181
02:34:01.400 --> 02:34:17.120
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): that's a possibility if the property owner
is open to that. So we're not looking to, you know, get rid of the
commercial, we're trying to preserve it and make it more successful,
really. So yeah, so then you would look around it to look at what are,
you know, how can we densify
1182
02:34:17.120 --> 02:34:31.569
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): potential existing housing element sites or
potential housing element sites to create these kind of clusters. And,
you know, actually, this is a good exercise because, like, we keep
running into issues like, you know, with Panera, where
1183
02:34:31.570 --> 02:34:37.840
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): We're, disenfranchising these small retail
places, but we're not…
1184
02:34:37.980 --> 02:34:54.549
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): setting them up to succeed, we're basically
just letting them sink or swim on their own, and we don't have a home to
propose to them where they can go and potentially be successful. So I
feel like if we can create these kind of retail clusters, we can, you
know, more easily
1185
02:34:54.580 --> 02:35:06.469
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): When we're displacing a small, you know,
restaurant or retail somewhere else, we can, you know, make a stronger
argument that we will keep you in the city, and we will help you succeed.
1186
02:35:06.960 --> 02:35:14.569
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Got it, thank you. So I would say that the
site that made the most sense for that, to me, was the proposal in the
staff report for Cupertino Village.
1187
02:35:14.570 --> 02:35:30.620
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Where there already was housing around it.
The other sites, like, you know, Marketplace, for example, I just don't
think that there's space to put any more housing there without
significantly changing the property and the parking that's available to
it. But, Cupertino Village, absolutely, I think that makes sense.
1188
02:35:30.825 --> 02:35:34.065
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): So that's the exercise. Right. Commissioner
Rowan.
1189
02:35:34.470 --> 02:35:40.209
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Yes, so, thank you, Chair. I… I think it's
important,
1190
02:35:40.970 --> 02:35:46.369
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): To recognize that while the desire of all of
us is to preserve retail.
1191
02:35:46.680 --> 02:35:51.999
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): The state laws and the current zoning do not
necessarily allow us to enforce it.
1192
02:35:52.170 --> 02:35:56.619
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And so, while the intent is definitely
acknowledged and agreed to.
1193
02:35:56.820 --> 02:36:03.300
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): In practice, what would end up happening
with these kinds of changes is the site becomes 100% residential, and we
cannot
1194
02:36:03.480 --> 02:36:06.969
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Safeguard retail, as we have just seen with
Westport and so on.
1195
02:36:07.130 --> 02:36:11.809
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And so, what I would actually ask us to
think about is, should we…
1196
02:36:12.260 --> 02:36:18.039
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): focus on low-density sites on De Anza
Boulevard that are offices first.
1197
02:36:18.480 --> 02:36:28.080
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And really target the office sites where the
loss of office is actually beneficial to our RENA calculations over time,
hopefully, but also something that
1198
02:36:28.580 --> 02:36:30.699
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): You know, we don't really,
1199
02:36:30.900 --> 02:36:48.930
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): need to protect as much as retail. So if I
had to limit this to the minimum number of sites and not create a very
large excise, I would rather focus and prioritize non-retail sites. I
think the chair was saying the same thing, maybe. Just because we do not
have the ability to protect retail. That's… it's more that than anything
else.
1200
02:36:49.020 --> 02:37:02.390
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And so I'd like to see if we can just focus
on offices, gas stations, and anything that's low-density commercial,
focusing on De Anza, Stevens Creek, and then the Homestead, and other
gateway corridors. Thank you.
1201
02:37:02.530 --> 02:37:03.410
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Vice Chair?
1202
02:37:04.900 --> 02:37:07.259
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): No, I just want to point out that
1203
02:37:08.030 --> 02:37:11.610
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Over the years, whenever I talk to
developers.
1204
02:37:12.020 --> 02:37:17.400
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And they tried to do mixed use. I said, well,
why are you doing this mixed use here?
1205
02:37:18.010 --> 02:37:34.090
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And they go, we don't want to, but we're
being forced to, and then they can't rent out the… rent out the retail.
And it stays empty for years and years, or it recycles, like, over at
Trevigna, it's just one after another, and at City Center, there's been…
1206
02:37:34.300 --> 02:37:38.930
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): a Michi's, and then, like, 6 different
restaurants, and the bakery's gone.
1207
02:37:39.170 --> 02:37:47.850
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, it almost has to be organic. You can't
really just force this kind of thing. And I remember at the, veranda.
1208
02:37:48.120 --> 02:37:51.960
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Originally, it was gonna be… 11…
1209
02:37:52.440 --> 02:38:01.629
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): extremely low income and retail on the
bottom. It was like… and we were like, why are you doing retail right
here when we desperately need more…
1210
02:38:01.630 --> 02:38:16.079
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): extremely low-income housing, and the
developer goes, well, we didn't want to do the retail, but, you know, the
city said we had to. We would love not to. And the city council at the
time, when I was on it, we said, you know, forget the retail, build 8
more
1211
02:38:16.140 --> 02:38:20.659
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): VLI units, or ELI units, and they did, and I
think that was a good decision.
1212
02:38:20.890 --> 02:38:29.830
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And I… I just don't see us forcing retail
into places where the developer just has zero interest in doing it.
1213
02:38:31.800 --> 02:38:33.230
Community Hall: you know…
1214
02:38:35.350 --> 02:38:45.420
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): myself and Commissioner Linskogg, I guess,
you know, we live in a place where you can walk to tons of, I can walk to
5 grocery stores.
1215
02:38:45.650 --> 02:38:57.189
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): other people on the commission, they can walk
to no grocery stores, or they used to be able to, but the grocery store
is gone. Like, Commissioner Rao, that grocery store was torn down.
1216
02:38:57.690 --> 02:39:04.809
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And so, I don't know, I mean, the cluster
sounds great, I just don't know how we force a developer to be interested
in that.
1217
02:39:07.520 --> 02:39:11.159
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Thank you. Any other comments from
Commission? Yes, Commissioner Rao.
1218
02:39:11.615 --> 02:39:16.835
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I want to make sure staff still has clarity
on what you're going to come back with, because…
1219
02:39:17.055 --> 02:39:24.605
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): You could end up with conflicting feedback
that kind of spreads you in different directions. You could end up with
different
1220
02:39:25.035 --> 02:39:28.725
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Directions that then lead to too many sites,
which is not the intent.
1221
02:39:28.855 --> 02:39:37.274
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And so we just want to do the bare minimum
to meet the numbers and recognize that we have opportunities coming up
very soon for the 2031
1222
02:39:37.655 --> 02:39:44.425
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): housing element, the next housing element
cycle, which I think we should start as early as next year, so… So, so
that's a good question.
1223
02:39:45.410 --> 02:39:58.359
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I guess we don't want to use up too many
sites, right? We want to save them for the next cycle. So we do not want
to… we don't want to do too much here. You know, this is… again, it's an
exercise to get…
1224
02:39:58.630 --> 02:40:06.800
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): not necessarily the housing, but just to stay
in compliance. So we want to be really, really, really careful here to do
it right.
1225
02:40:07.730 --> 02:40:16.509
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Right, and I think as a first exercise, we
want to see, you know, what can we… what existing sites can we upzone,
and what can we gain from it?
1226
02:40:16.870 --> 02:40:32.199
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): You know, we have the owner interest from
Kimco. Am I to guess that there is no interest in looking at the
Prometheus site as a potential site that eliminates the residential
amenities at the apartment?
1227
02:40:32.420 --> 02:40:34.600
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, does Prometheus…
1228
02:40:35.190 --> 02:40:41.150
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): they're willing to give up those amenities in
order to put even more housing in there? Right.
1229
02:40:41.150 --> 02:40:42.020
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): They, they don't… I mean.
1230
02:40:42.020 --> 02:40:45.350
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): That's maintenance for them. They'd rather
get rent from it.
1231
02:40:46.150 --> 02:40:53.269
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Right, but that doesn't… the presence of
those amenities helped them charge more rent. I… I don't know.
1232
02:40:53.520 --> 02:40:59.250
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Again, this is… this came from them, so I'm…
it's just to ask that question.
1233
02:40:59.255 --> 02:41:01.704
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Right. So, will it be very low income?
1234
02:41:02.270 --> 02:41:12.690
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): it'll be no… I mean, it'll be… yes, I mean,
for the new units that they develop, it'll be 15% lower income split
between BLI and LI.
1235
02:41:13.050 --> 02:41:16.100
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Right. Per our city's BMR program. Yeah, I
don't know.
1236
02:41:16.195 --> 02:41:19.584
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I… I have mixed feelings about that.
1237
02:41:21.315 --> 02:41:22.315
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rao.
1238
02:41:23.160 --> 02:41:27.289
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Thank you, Chair. I want to echo Vice Chair
Scharf's comments.
1239
02:41:27.740 --> 02:41:34.309
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I think we need to be careful about, because
an owner showed interest, that we would proceed with it.
1240
02:41:34.620 --> 02:41:40.430
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): This is what led us to the Linda Vista
property, the Avalich property, then the McLellan property, and…
1241
02:41:40.710 --> 02:41:45.930
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And, some of these other builder's remedy, I
guess, that we ended up with. I don't want to be…
1242
02:41:46.200 --> 02:41:52.899
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): influenced by what a greedy Lord Owner wants
to do, I want us to focus on
1243
02:41:53.400 --> 02:42:05.179
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): how do we convert, in a very deliberate
manner, Class C office properties into housing element sites? That's
really where there's no regrets in losing Class C office properties, so…
1244
02:42:05.420 --> 02:42:12.910
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): let's focus on De Anza Boulevard, Stevens
Creek, Homestead, Office Properties, gas stations, that's my ask, and I
wanna…
1245
02:42:13.270 --> 02:42:19.330
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): hear back from staff. If you're getting
conflicting guidance, we can do a motion if you need that, but I don't
want us to…
1246
02:42:20.950 --> 02:42:26.860
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): albeit being well-intentioned, I don't want
us to go after sites where there is interest from owners, where the
1247
02:42:27.520 --> 02:42:38.649
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): where the development may actually be
causing more neighborhood churn. And the Villages is actually one of
those few remaining affordable housing sites. We have lost McLennan
Terrace.
1248
02:42:38.710 --> 02:42:48.890
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I know a lot of people that rent at the
villages, I go there very regularly because I get invited for parties on
weekends, and I know a lot of families, school families, young families.
1249
02:42:49.000 --> 02:43:01.359
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): that choose to live there, because that is
one of the few affordable places. And I know very well how these projects
play out. When they invest, they need to recoup that, and it means rents
go up.
1250
02:43:01.880 --> 02:43:11.709
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So development isn't always beneficial to
the overall site, it just gentrifies into a more expensive site. So I'd
encourage us to really take those offices and see what we can do with it,
and…
1251
02:43:12.250 --> 02:43:13.460
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Put the numbers in.
1252
02:43:14.680 --> 02:43:17.000
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah, I think… generally, I think you've
heard…
1253
02:43:17.170 --> 02:43:19.890
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): two main things. One is being more…
1254
02:43:20.090 --> 02:43:25.610
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Proactive, focusing on the commercial cluster
concept, and going and looking at that.
1255
02:43:25.860 --> 02:43:26.529
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Good o'clock.
1256
02:43:27.020 --> 02:43:31.210
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Keeping those and trying to strengthen them
through adding housing in close proximity.
1257
02:43:31.420 --> 02:43:42.629
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, I mean, that's one thing that's just more
proactive, more of a true planning exercise, whereas I think the other
thing that you, Commissioner Ryo, have also focused on is properties that
really aren't adding a lot of value.
1258
02:43:43.190 --> 02:43:52.859
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): aren't, I guess, for lack of a better way to
put it, as big a loss to the community. Class C offices, not retail, but
offices that are kind of seeing the end of their life.
1259
02:43:53.720 --> 02:43:59.080
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Gas stations, things that… would be less
missed, in a way, so…
1260
02:43:59.670 --> 02:44:06.220
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Those have been, I think, the two biggest
points of discussion, which are coming at it differently, and I think
maybe we can just combine them both.
1261
02:44:07.670 --> 02:44:14.699
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I mean, they're… I don't know, they're
necessarily… it's a different approach. They're not necessarily at odds
with each other. I think, again, one is…
1262
02:44:14.870 --> 02:44:18.740
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Kind of planning around what you have, and
the other is sort of cleaning up what you won't miss.
1263
02:44:19.360 --> 02:44:22.170
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Right, certainly, but I'm not sure I…
1264
02:44:22.700 --> 02:44:28.359
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): would view the combining of both as really
being protective of the villages.
1265
02:44:28.500 --> 02:44:30.319
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Or the retail, so I…
1266
02:44:30.660 --> 02:44:42.210
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I want to see how we can protect affordable
housing, and Class C multifamily is the last bastion of affordable
housing, other than ADUs, right? McClellan Terrace, the Villages,
Hampton.
1267
02:44:42.210 --> 02:44:45.960
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): to use, we can't plan for, we get credit for,
but yeah.
1268
02:44:46.360 --> 02:44:52.509
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, if we may protect… By not designating
them as a housing element site, indirectly, we protect.
1269
02:44:52.710 --> 02:44:55.689
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Affordable rentals for our community.
1270
02:44:55.695 --> 02:44:58.855
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): If I may also state this, that, you know.
1271
02:44:59.835 --> 02:45:12.484
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Upzoning the office buildings, yes, you
know, to the extent that it makes sense, I, you know, that's certainly
one strategy, but that doesn't necessarily retain the retail that
1272
02:45:13.975 --> 02:45:23.195
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): is larger, in the sense that a developer at
any time could walk in right now and propose townhomes across all of
Marketplace, for example.
1273
02:45:23.615 --> 02:45:26.234
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Or the entire Target site.
1274
02:45:26.445 --> 02:45:39.695
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So that ex… that reality does exist today,
and so that does… so from the Council's work program, you know, which is
something that the Council is looking to see whether there are ways to
retain that
1275
02:45:39.805 --> 02:45:50.404
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): retail, specifically the larger, you know,
retail that brings in copious amounts of sales tax to the city, I don't
know that that strategy necessarily helps with.
1276
02:45:50.405 --> 02:45:51.165
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): with that.
1277
02:45:51.165 --> 02:46:08.844
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And that's true. While we cannot prevent any
landowner from moving forward with a project proposal on a site where
they have the zoning, I think designating a housing element site has
certain benefits. We just saw Marina interested in being designated a
housing element site. Why would they be interested in that? Because it
helps with financing, perhaps.
1278
02:46:09.235 --> 02:46:18.324
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And so I just want to be cognizant that when
you do provide that CD recognition of that site, financing, and investor,
1279
02:46:18.735 --> 02:46:21.344
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Fundraising is a lot easier, and so…
1280
02:46:21.455 --> 02:46:25.935
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): We want to try and not encourage that, and
instead target the offices, and target
1281
02:46:26.055 --> 02:46:32.745
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): non-retail sites and non-impactful sites to
our existing housing inventory. Thank you.
1282
02:46:32.745 --> 02:46:42.004
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I have also thought extensively about this
question of, do we want to explicitly protect, you know, the marketplaces
and the crossroads of the world? And I think
1283
02:46:42.275 --> 02:46:56.725
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): after I reflected on it, I have some concern
that explicitly moving to change that zoning may do more harm than good,
because, you know, we then have to approach the landowner, and they may
freak out and decide they want to do something entirely different. And I
think…
1284
02:46:57.215 --> 02:47:21.305
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): right now, at least, from what I see with
Marketplace and Crossroads, those major areas, they… they're doing very
well. I don't see them changing anytime soon, and I think, you know, the
way that we can protect them as a city is actually through economic
development initiatives that help those businesses succeed, and the more
successful they are, I think the more safe that they'll be in not turning
and wanting to turn into housing anytime soon.
1285
02:47:21.455 --> 02:47:28.925
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): So yeah, my preference would not be to try to
mess with something that's working well.
1286
02:47:31.690 --> 02:47:36.689
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Any other comments? Yeah, I guess I have one
other, one other comment. You had mentioned in passing,
1287
02:47:37.260 --> 02:47:40.970
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): about the… Like, mass mailing,
1288
02:47:41.660 --> 02:47:44.460
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I would definitely say that it… it's
definitely…
1289
02:47:44.790 --> 02:47:47.140
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Although it may not be effective to raise
1290
02:47:47.790 --> 02:47:56.500
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): general interest in the process. It probably
is an important part of, you know, just having a matter of record that it
happened.
1291
02:47:56.950 --> 02:48:13.250
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I would… I would encourage you to, when…
when you bring back the recommendations, I hope, hopefully there'll be
some around how to communicate this. I think there's been a lot of
discussion, certainly across this… this version of the Planning
Commission, about things that probably could have worked better.
1292
02:48:17.460 --> 02:48:23.560
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): part of that is, I think, it's the immensity
of things when things are happening on the housing element level.
1293
02:48:23.660 --> 02:48:32.929
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): You know, what you regularly hear is that I
didn't know this was happening, and the problem they… the reason they
didn't know it was happening is because there were 40 places being
discussed.
1294
02:48:33.140 --> 02:48:35.819
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): And… and there's not a sense of…
1295
02:48:36.000 --> 02:48:39.270
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Of, you know, what does that mean?
1296
02:48:39.410 --> 02:48:48.090
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): So, it's… can't wave your magic wand and
change that, but then again, I do think things like…
1297
02:48:48.220 --> 02:48:49.000
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): you know.
1298
02:48:49.670 --> 02:49:05.009
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Having things like relative scoring so that
people can kind of understand this versus that might help communicate
that a little bit more, rather than, you know, being more specific than
saying, hey, you know, well, we realize this has
1299
02:49:05.060 --> 02:49:14.390
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): This, you know, this development on Stevens
Creek had some exposure to, you know, is visible to single-family homes.
1300
02:49:14.530 --> 02:49:20.490
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): You know, hopefully that… Hopefully there
can be a model here that kind of,
1301
02:49:20.940 --> 02:49:23.930
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): the kind of measures, I think,
1302
02:49:24.360 --> 02:49:36.070
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I think it's unavoidable for this to be
successful, that you would probably be increasing density for, buildings
on Stevens Creek. That's going to have that impact, but for people to
understand
1303
02:49:36.210 --> 02:49:37.029
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): you know.
1304
02:49:37.520 --> 02:49:54.330
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): that there was consideration of that impact,
and kind of see where they stand. Now, some people, of course, at the end
of the day, you know, you live somewhere, and you care about that, so…
so, you know, if you say, if I… if I build up at Marina.
1305
02:49:54.470 --> 02:50:08.740
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): there's zero, neighborhood, you know, the
neighbor, residential, neighborhood impact. Of course, you're going to
say, why not build there? But, I mean, maybe that's a reasonable question
to ask. I think for somebody who lives, who backs up on Stevens Creek.
1306
02:50:08.840 --> 02:50:14.920
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): When their… when their measure is sort of
20% versus… You know.
1307
02:50:15.060 --> 02:50:30.660
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): versus McClellan, where it's probably a, you
know, extremely low number in terms of the… of how you would value that
in terms of the impact on the community, you know, the neighborhood
immediately surrounding. I think people… people can kind of understand
that.
1308
02:50:31.190 --> 02:50:42.779
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I understand that better than the way we've
been able to communicate it to date. A lot of that is really, you know,
how do you figure out how to do this in fewer actions rather than… than
more?
1309
02:50:43.370 --> 02:50:53.069
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Maybe that is… maybe that is a little
counter to what… because… because I think I… I don't… I actually agree
with, you know, a lot… a number of the comments here, which were really…
1310
02:50:53.230 --> 02:50:56.579
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): You know, You're not trying to solve…
1311
02:50:57.050 --> 02:51:02.279
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): You have a big problem to solve, but you
might not want to solve it by trying to solve it all in, you know, 3
places.
1312
02:51:02.580 --> 02:51:08.389
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): So that does say, needs to look at more
places, but then that really does create that.
1313
02:51:08.560 --> 02:51:13.649
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): The need to make it, make it clear that this
was a thoughtful decision.
1314
02:51:15.350 --> 02:51:16.669
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): To the people who are impacted.
1315
02:51:17.040 --> 02:51:29.550
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Yeah, I wanted to, go off of that point, and,
you know, we had a number of residents in here this evening that were
very upset about their parcel, and I understand where that is in the
process, but, you know, since we are
1316
02:51:29.550 --> 02:51:32.660
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): We're currently identifying many more sites,
and this…
1317
02:51:32.660 --> 02:51:53.019
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): McClellan parcel is at most going to yield 3
or 4 units of affordable housing. You know, my request would be that you…
you do, ask the applicant, and maybe continue to keep it on your radar
if… if they ever change their mind and have an… have an interest in down
zoning, that that
1318
02:51:53.550 --> 02:52:02.259
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): be made known to them that is very much on
the table. And, you know, I'd like to actually just briefly straw poll
this commission. Does anyone disagree with that?
1319
02:52:02.710 --> 02:52:05.679
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Thank you, because, you know, I think…
1320
02:52:05.680 --> 02:52:28.670
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): you know, that is an evacuation-constrained
area, and we have seen multiple times now on the Planning Commission that
when we… when we… when the community… you see the community going in a
certain direction on a property, you know where it's going to end up on
the public hearing, you know there's going to be a lot of
dissatisfaction, and, you know, to the extent that we can preempt that,
it would be really nice. Commissioner Rao.
1321
02:52:28.675 --> 02:52:35.435
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, the chair, if you can repeat the straw
poll, you caught me… Oh, the straw poll. …at a moment of, dozing off, I
guess.
1322
02:52:35.435 --> 02:52:40.615
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): The poll was just, would anyone disagree with
having staff make…
1323
02:52:41.285 --> 02:52:56.805
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): clear to the McClellan applicant that the
option, and there is an option and a desire to downzone that property,
because we are in the process of upzoning many other areas, and that one
will yield, at most, 3 to 4 affordable units.
1324
02:52:57.225 --> 02:53:02.784
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): So, and I did not get any objection on that.
So… Yes, agreed. On.
1325
02:53:04.190 --> 02:53:09.440
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I know I made my closing comments, but I
realized I did not make a comment on the AlphaX project.
1326
02:53:09.960 --> 02:53:15.699
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I wasn't entirely clear on what the member
of the public that spoke was asking for, but…
1327
02:53:15.840 --> 02:53:24.680
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I would ask us to be very cognizant of the
fire evacuation bottleneck in the area, coupled with the very high fire
hazard severity zone.
1328
02:53:24.790 --> 02:53:27.509
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I really would like to avoid.
1329
02:53:28.140 --> 02:53:33.399
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): any sort of density that further impacts
exiting the Montavista neighborhood and the…
1330
02:53:33.500 --> 02:53:36.860
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Creston Neighborhood, and so on, Inspiration
Heights, and so on. Thank you.
1331
02:53:39.000 --> 02:53:41.640
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Thank you. Any further comments from the
Commission?
1332
02:53:43.500 --> 02:53:51.419
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Okay, I think, staff, you have a lot of
feedback to deal with. Any… do you have any questions for us before we
adjourn?
1333
02:53:51.720 --> 02:53:57.390
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): No, kind of what I figured. That's why we
wanted to just have a meeting that was more open, and
1334
02:53:58.560 --> 02:54:06.880
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): not burn our consultants' time sitting
through, just because there's a lot to take on. We know how this started
4 years ago, even though this is a small version of it.
1335
02:54:06.980 --> 02:54:12.609
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think the comments were good, and the
retail cluster is…
1336
02:54:12.840 --> 02:54:21.290
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Probably gonna be coming back before you in
some form, I'd say, by fall, since that is a council item, so it's
impossible to not have these dovetail.
1337
02:54:21.860 --> 02:54:25.119
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And if you're gonna do something affecting
retail zoning.
1338
02:54:25.340 --> 02:54:27.289
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): This is the only time to do it.
1339
02:54:30.340 --> 02:54:36.869
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Alright, so with that, we will conclude the
study session, and are there any staff or commission reports?
1340
02:54:38.040 --> 02:54:40.260
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Oh, go ahead.
1341
02:54:40.265 --> 02:54:43.794
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I have a commission report afterwards.
1342
02:54:43.795 --> 02:54:48.165
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): If you may let staff go first, and then we
can go that way, we can give ourselves some time.
1343
02:54:49.670 --> 02:54:57.749
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Actually, I was gonna say we don't have any
reports, so that's an easy one, and if something comes to my mind as you
guys speak, I will let you know.
1344
02:54:58.780 --> 02:55:02.530
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Through the chair, are we allowed to ask a
question on that, on the staff report?
1345
02:55:02.770 --> 02:55:11.179
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): There was no statement. There was none, but…
I know. I will make my statement anyway. Is there a timeline for ODS to
come back to…
1346
02:55:11.290 --> 02:55:12.480
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): this body.
1347
02:55:15.040 --> 02:55:21.470
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): At this point, we don't know, because we are
tackling this, and health and safety element is…
1348
02:55:21.940 --> 02:55:23.730
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Time sensitive.
1349
02:55:23.850 --> 02:55:24.650
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): X.
1350
02:55:27.540 --> 02:55:38.340
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay, Vice Chair. Oh, okay, so I'm assigned
to attend the Housing Commission meetings. So, this is from May 28th,
2026.
1351
02:55:38.730 --> 02:55:41.790
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): First agenda was CDBG discussion.
1352
02:55:41.970 --> 02:55:57.039
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The second was a study session to meet the
affordable housing requirement, which we discussed here today, and I
would like to compliment Luke. He did an excellent job educating the
housing commissioners on the realities of
1353
02:55:57.180 --> 02:56:06.799
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Rena, SB330, SB423, Valco, Explaining why the
developers were not interested in building at higher densities.
1354
02:56:07.060 --> 02:56:14.219
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So… the housing commissioners, I guess
they're pretty new, but,
1355
02:56:15.090 --> 02:56:24.059
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): There's this misconception out there that
every developer is chomping at the bit to build as high a density as
possible, and…
1356
02:56:24.160 --> 02:56:29.880
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): It needed to be explained that, no, that
actually is not the case. Everybody really wants to build
1357
02:56:30.300 --> 02:56:39.120
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): townhouses at this time, that's the most
profitable. So I appreciate that that got explained to the housing
commissioners, because
1358
02:56:39.540 --> 02:56:43.460
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): it's not just them, it's a general
misconception, I think, out in the…
1359
02:56:43.910 --> 02:56:51.599
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): General public that, oh, everybody wants to
build, you know, 200 units per acre, and that… that is not the case.
1360
02:56:52.030 --> 02:56:55.049
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): He also… Luke also explained about…
1361
02:56:55.230 --> 02:57:01.830
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Well, how all these projects were approved
prior to our housing element being certified, which is how we went.
1362
02:57:02.500 --> 02:57:10.160
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): To the… 20 or so units per acre when it was
at a minimum zoning of 50.
1363
02:57:10.440 --> 02:57:16.279
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): One commissioner wondered how Valco was able
to go below the 15% BMR requirement.
1364
02:57:16.610 --> 02:57:19.830
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And I… Believe that's because…
1365
02:57:20.620 --> 02:57:32.690
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Density… the 15% is before density bonus, so
once you add density bonus, you don't get 15% of the density bonus as
well, so it actually goes pretty far down.
1366
02:57:33.300 --> 02:57:38.699
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): He also explained about the 57%, how we could
not just say, okay.
1367
02:57:39.130 --> 02:57:43.560
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): you know, all new projects need 50%… 57% BMR.
1368
02:57:43.940 --> 02:57:48.170
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): One commissioner inquired about housing on
closed school sites, but…
1369
02:57:48.290 --> 02:57:54.309
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): You know, that is not something the city
controls, that's up to CUSD and FUHSD.
1370
02:57:54.680 --> 02:58:00.940
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): In the past, they have built housing on
closed school sites, but we have no control to force that.
1371
02:58:01.370 --> 02:58:07.990
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And I have to say, The highlight of the
meeting for me, personally, was one commissioner.
1372
02:58:08.360 --> 02:58:15.840
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): mentioned, oh, I didn't realize that
affordable housing was not a goal of,
1373
02:58:16.090 --> 02:58:21.019
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): the YIMBY movement, which I think we've all
known that for many years, but…
1374
02:58:21.140 --> 02:58:25.420
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Apparently, there's another misconception, is
that that…
1375
02:58:26.040 --> 02:58:38.790
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): they really want to build affordable housing
when they don't. They want to build market-rate housing, and that's how
that whole movement was formed originally, was to promote, real estate
investors, developers, to…
1376
02:58:38.850 --> 02:58:46.540
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): make more money. So I was thrilled that
somebody finally realized that, because they had been misled for many
years.
1377
02:58:46.910 --> 02:58:48.310
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And that's my report.
1378
02:58:50.560 --> 02:58:54.179
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Thank you, Vice Chair, for the report. Very
comprehensive overview of the.
1379
02:58:54.180 --> 02:58:55.540
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): Housing commissioning.
1380
02:58:55.540 --> 02:58:56.230
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Or, sorry.
1381
02:58:56.235 --> 02:58:57.095
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rao.
1382
02:58:57.245 --> 02:58:58.654
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): Thank you, Chair.
1383
02:58:58.655 --> 02:59:05.305
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): As a commission report, or a commissioner
report on a topic that did come to this party.
1384
02:59:05.525 --> 02:59:16.874
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I wanna say that I have met with several
pickleball players this morning. I met with a friend that's a 25-year
tennis friend who is now aged out of tennis and playing pickleball.
1385
02:59:16.995 --> 02:59:23.484
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And so I just want to reiterate for members
of the public that may watch this video that, you know, I have
1386
02:59:23.795 --> 02:59:33.834
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): multi-decade-old tennis friends that are all
pickleball players as they age, and I recognize the community is an aging
community, and I think we need to find a balance
1387
02:59:34.065 --> 02:59:40.845
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And it isn't this or that, I… I was, I was
certainly…
1388
02:59:41.185 --> 02:59:47.165
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): appreciative of the Council's decision on
pickleball, but I do think the community is coming back to us
1389
02:59:47.305 --> 02:59:55.095
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): on this topic, and so I want to call out
that there's a lot of feedback, and we need to find ways to balance the
needs.
1390
02:59:55.245 --> 03:00:00.575
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And maybe there are some options there. So,
as we go into future agenda items, I'd like to bring this up again.
1391
03:00:02.720 --> 03:00:06.079
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Okay, and now we… sorry, there was another
report.
1392
03:00:06.085 --> 03:00:10.605
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I think a number of us attended the,
groundbreaking for the,
1393
03:00:11.575 --> 03:00:22.204
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Oh, Summerhill. Summerhill project, which
was, interesting. It was amazing how fast, Staples is not there.
1394
03:00:22.435 --> 03:00:25.165
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): I think they must have started right after
we left.
1395
03:00:27.410 --> 03:00:35.280
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rao. On future agenda items,
I'd like to propose a future agenda item in the form of a
1396
03:00:35.870 --> 03:00:41.409
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): subcommittee to recommend data center as a
dedicated zoning in Cupertino.
1397
03:00:41.540 --> 03:00:47.010
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): It has come to my attention that we have
several light industrial zone sites in Cupertino.
1398
03:00:47.110 --> 03:00:54.569
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Those would be eligible for data centers
today. Some of those sites are actually 10 towers north of Stevens Creek.
1399
03:00:54.700 --> 03:00:58.310
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Imperial Avenue in the Monta Vista Village,
Monta Vista neighborhood.
1400
03:00:58.590 --> 03:01:04.580
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Areas off, stevens Creek, west of De Anza
Boulevard.
1401
03:01:04.870 --> 03:01:09.319
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, we have a number of potential exposures
where either an operator
1402
03:01:09.390 --> 03:01:22.690
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): in the data center space, or some of our
largest businesses here may come in and have the ability to proceed
because of the light industrial zoning. So I'd like to propose a future
agenda item for a subcommittee
1403
03:01:22.690 --> 03:01:31.250
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): to look into the recommendation on a
dedicated zoning for data centers, so we may treat that differently from,
light industrial. Do I have a second?
1404
03:01:38.110 --> 03:01:46.040
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Do we not want to protect our Mona Vista
neighborhood from being converted from automotive small businesses to
data centers? That can happen.
1405
03:01:46.250 --> 03:01:54.140
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): With, the existing zoning. I'll second it.
Thank you, Commissioner Lindskogg, appreciate the… Partition, the
partnership here.
1406
03:01:54.335 --> 03:01:58.095
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, do we need a subcommittee on this, or
should it just be an agenda item?
1407
03:01:58.095 --> 03:02:04.695
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I propose a subcommittee because that's the
$0 route, because anything else requires funding and goes into a multi-
year
1408
03:02:04.995 --> 03:02:09.905
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Nothing happens on it with CWP. So, at least
here, commissioners may do something.
1409
03:02:11.880 --> 03:02:16.720
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay, maybe this is an agenda item for City
Council, but…
1410
03:02:16.950 --> 03:02:19.150
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Pugh mentioned that there is…
1411
03:02:19.370 --> 03:02:25.709
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Some discussion about modifying the way the
BMR percentages are done.
1412
03:02:25.990 --> 03:02:33.669
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Based on the income level. So is that
something for Planning Commission to discuss, or does that go straight to
City Council?
1413
03:02:34.890 --> 03:02:52.549
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): When, we have a report from our consultant,
my understanding is I think the Planning Commission is involved. I need
to look at what happened the last time that the BMR manual was updated. I
believe the Planning Commission did have a… play a role in it, but I… I
can't… I need to look… go back and confirm.
1414
03:02:53.430 --> 03:02:56.780
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay, then I won't propose that at this time.
1415
03:02:57.580 --> 03:03:03.950
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): And, and, sorry, I'd like to add one more
future agenda item on… the…
1416
03:03:04.780 --> 03:03:08.199
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): potential for bringing Pickleball back to
this body for…
1417
03:03:08.350 --> 03:03:26.460
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): a balanced set of recommendations, I'm sure
there's ways that we can do better for the community. There's a balancing
of needs, people want the social aspect, and we can truly control noise
with other recommendations besides panels. If this body puts its mind to
it, I'm sure we can find ways to
1418
03:03:26.810 --> 03:03:28.520
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): To have our cake and eat it, too.
1419
03:03:28.980 --> 03:03:30.210
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Or have a pedal in place.
1420
03:03:30.215 --> 03:03:33.885
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Haven't we already discussed pickleball
extensively here?
1421
03:03:33.885 --> 03:03:37.084
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Our last attempt was,
1422
03:03:37.725 --> 03:03:47.634
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): did not make progress with Council, so there
is always hope to have a different approach this time around that is less
expensive, but still retains the sport in the city in a balanced way.
1423
03:03:49.995 --> 03:03:55.365
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I was checking if I had a second on the
Pickleball future agenda item, if we may be able to…
1424
03:03:55.765 --> 03:04:12.265
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): second it for a future, future item. I think
that the item is already making progress under the either public works or
a city department, but, you know, if in the future we may want to reopen
this topic, I would second that.
1425
03:04:12.265 --> 03:04:13.025
Speaker 19 (Community Hall): And just to…
1426
03:04:13.025 --> 03:04:20.125
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): To clarify this agenda item and the
distinction, the current agenda item that is making progress is directed
towards the study.
1427
03:04:20.255 --> 03:04:24.854
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): On noise, this would be other
recommendations from this body.
1428
03:04:24.995 --> 03:04:27.905
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): On how to preserve the sport.
1429
03:04:28.465 --> 03:04:34.374
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): in a way that is more noise-friendly to the
neighborhood. So, looking for other recommendations in this agenda item.
Thank you.
1430
03:04:35.640 --> 03:04:39.459
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Commissioner Winsco, I thought I heard you.
Did you have something to add, or… No. Okay.
1431
03:04:39.800 --> 03:04:45.999
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): All right, does anyone else have any agenda
items to add? Okay, then we will adjourn the meeting. Thank you.