HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC 04-28-2026 Youtube and Zoom TranscriptWEBVTT
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Community Hall: For Tuesday, April 28th, 2026. Please rise for the Pledge
of Allegiance.
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Community Hall: I pledge allegiance to the flag.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): What do you call it? Lucci stands.
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Community Hall: One nation, and good God.
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Community Hall: Individual, with liberty and justice for all.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Great, thank you very much. So, we will now
move to the roll call, City Clerk.
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Community Hall: Commissioner Fung? Present.
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Community Hall: Commissioner Linskog?
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Community Hall: Commissioner Ratt.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Vice Chair Scharf? Present. Chair Casolchron?
Present. For the record, Commissioner Linskog and Commissioner Rao are
absent.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you very much, City Clerk. And we
will move on to approval of the minutes. Do we have a motion to approve
the minutes from the April 14th, 2026 Planning Commission meeting? Sure,
I'd be happy to do that. I move that we approve the minutes as submitted.
I'll second.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Great, City Clerk, may we please have a vote?
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Community Hall: That's a good…
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Question. Okay, that's fine.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Commissioner Fung? Aye.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Commissioner Lindsay.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Gog is absent, Commissioner Rao is absent,
Vice Chair Scharf? Aye. Chair Castolshron? Aye. The motion carries
unanimously.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you. So, we will move on to
postponements, seeing as there are none, we'll move on to oral
communications. City Clerk, do we have any oral communications?
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We have no speakers, Chair.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Excellent. Moving on, we have no old
business, so we will move on to the new business, which is, Agenda Item
2, Review of the Fiscal Year 2026-2027 Capital Improvement Program
Proposal for Consistency with the City of Cupertino's General Plan. And
may we please have the staff report?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Good evening, Commissioners. I'm Susan
Michael, the CIP Manager, and I'm here tonight with Director…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): of Public Works, Chad Mosley. As support, we
are going to run through the capital improvement program, and we're
looking to check its conformance with the general plan.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Sorry.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So tonight's action is to adopt a resolution
finding that the fiscal year 26-27 Capital Improvement Program's proposal
is consistent with the City's general plan, and I just wanted to note
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That, as noted in the staff report,
California Government Code 65401 requires that Public Works submits the
list
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): of proposed new CIP projects for the ensuing
fiscal year to the Planning Commission for review as to conformity with
the adopted general plan. And then.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Cupertino's Municipal Code, Section 2.32.070,
requires that the Planning Commission review the CIP for consistency with
the general plan.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So we are before you tonight for this review.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I wanted to note that there is a CIP webpage.
If you navigate on the city's
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): web page to the Public Works page, you will
find the CIP information, and there's a plethora of additional
information about the program there.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, for fiscal year…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): actually, I've got the wrong year there. For
fiscal year 26-27, the CIP projects are… there's 5 of them. And in the
next pages, we will…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): have a narrative page giving more information
about the project, and a page showing the conformance of each project.
So, I'll go through that there.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, the first project is… The Blackberry
Farms Golf Course Pro Shop Renovation.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That pro shop has not been comprehensively
renovated in many years, and is now outdated, inefficient, and out of
alignment with current accessibility and building standards.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): This project proposes a full interior
renovation to improve
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The functionality, safety, and customer
service.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And to note its conformance, this is in line
with land use goals that ask for maintaining and improving the city's
fiscal health.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And providing efficient operations of our
facilities.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The infrastructure and recreation, parks, and
community elements also prioritize maintenance and upgrades to meet the
community's needs.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The next project is the Bless Property
Improvements. This project proposes to demolish the existing residential
building and replace with minimal grading, natural habitat, native
plants, and modest pathways.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): To note its conformance, The infrastructure
element notes that existing facilities should be maintained to meet the
community's needs.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): An empty house on the edge of a verdant
environment does not meet the community needs well.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And this project proposes utilizing the
site's natural features, maximizing native plantings, and limiting
activities to those appropriate to the habitat, as noted in the
recreation, parks, and community element.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And the next project is the Memorial Park
Pico Ball sound attenuation.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, while pickleball… while the pickleball
community is thriving at the Memorial Park courts, the residents
surrounding the courts have
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Complaints about the noise. This project
proposes installing sound attenuation on the fence surrounding the
pickleball area.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Structural augmentation of the fence is most
likely required.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): By provo… by providing… Sound attenuation to
mitigate the noise, we hope to create a better environment for everyone.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The health and safety element of the General
Plan looks to minimize noise impacts on the community.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): the recreation…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Parks and community element calls for a range
of park activities and city facilities that are sustainable, once again,
minimizing impacts on the environment.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The next project is… Resurfacing the courts
at the Sports Center.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Resurfacing all tennis courts at the Sports
Center will prevent further damage, reduce liability, and avoid more
costly repairs in the future, as well as maintain a suitable and safe
playing environment.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): They have been… they haven't been resurfaced
in the last 5, 6 years, and so they're beyond at this point. And it
becomes a CIP project in that it requires some engineering in order to
get the specs right.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): For conformance, it's very similar to the Pro
Shop project in that this project is in line with the land use goals
regarding the city's fiscal health and providing efficient operations of
our facilities. The general plan also prioritizes maintenance to meet the
community's needs.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And the last project is, long title, Stevens
Creek Boulevard.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): State Route 85 Northbound Ramp Intersection
Improvements.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Improvements to the northbound ramp
intersection improve circulation for vehicles, bicyclists, and
pedestrians. Required as part of the Westport development, the developer
initiated the drawings for the intersection improvements and submitted
them to Caltrans for approval.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The project stalled with Caltrans, yet the
Westport project is complete. The developer asked the city to complete
the project, and paid in lieu fees to support the project.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The mobility element requires new
developments to increase connectivity with safe pedestrian connections to
adjacent amenities, and the city and development developers
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Are required to enhance and maintain the
transportation infrastructure for all modes of transportation.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And that is my presentation. The action
tonight, once again, is to adopt a resolution finding that this year's
CIP
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Proposal is consistent with the City's
general plan.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Thank you.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Great, thank you very much, Susan. So we will
now bring it back to the Commission for any clarifying questions of
staff.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Vice Chair?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): So I have a question.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I mean, all of these are fine with me, I'm
just wondering how…
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): The pro shop and the tennis courts.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): improve the city's fiscal health? Are they
contributing a net positive revenue.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): to the city, I thought there was a net loss.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I can't speak to that specifically, but I can
say that they are facilities that are a part of a revenue-generating
facility, and it is in our interest to keep those facilities maintained
and functional. And that's… we're trying to keep the functionality of
those facilities.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Is that sufficient?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Well, if I might ask, in the council meeting
when this item was presented, I believe you mentioned that the golf
course shop generates $100,000 per year. Was that a correct number?
Sounds right, do you remember?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I don't…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): No, I don't remember, sorry. I remember that
I'd have to ask the Parks.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay, because that was the number that I
heard that was cited, but I, you know…
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): after the labor costs and everything were
deducted? That I'm not sure.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I don't know.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): I mean, like I said, I have no problem with
any of these, I just didn't really think that…
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): The pro shop or the tennis courts generate a
net positive in revenue.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): So I was surprised that those were LU8.1 and
LU8.2.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): That, that those were… those boxes were
checked.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Noted.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I had one as well. I'm just curious, the… can
you discuss the scope of the pickleball?
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Is it just adding sound absorbing material to
the existing fence, or… It is. I can probably… I can probably answer
that. Is this working? Can you hear that? Yeah. Chad Moseley, Director of
Public Works. At this point in time, what we're doing is we're looking at
doing an acoustic analysis to verify that.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Any improvements would actually help the
problem.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And then after that, we would look to just
structurally support the existing fence so that it could take the
additional lateral load that these panels would, include, and then, of
course, install the new, panels. Great.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): No, thank you.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I wasn't sure, just looking at the picture in
the packet, what exactly was new there. So, thank you.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Through the chair, pardon the interruption, I
just wanted to announce that Commissioner Rao has joined the meeting
remotely. Commissioner Rao, are you at the lobby in the City Place
Marriott?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): You're muted.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): The sound still is not coming through,
Commissioner Rao.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Yeah, we still see you talking. Commissioner
Rao, we still cannot hear you. We can see you, but we can't hear you.
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Community Hall: Is he beautiful?
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Community Hall: touching the plants.
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Community Hall: City & Co.
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Community Hall: What do you advise that we should do?
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rao, it looks like the problem
is on your end with your mic.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rao, are you able to restart
your laptop and rejoin the webinar?
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Santosh Rao: Can you hear me now?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Yes, we can.
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Santosh Rao: Okay.
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Santosh Rao: I have to switch to my phone.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I wanted to confirm, are you at the lobby in
the City Place Marriott?
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Santosh Rao: Yes.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Are there any individuals over the age of 18
with you, and has anyone indicated to you that they intend to make public
comment or address the Planning Commission?
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Santosh Rao: Nope.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I'll rely on you to notify me if any members
of the public wish to speak from your location. Thank you.
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Santosh Rao: Sounds good.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you very much, City Clerk. Welcome,
Commissioner Rao. Excuse me, Chair. Yes.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Madam City Clerk, I believe there's one more
question regarding posting of the agenda.
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Santosh Rao: Yes, the agenda has been posted.
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Community Hall: Thank you, Commissioner Rowe.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Alright, so I guess we'll pick up right where
we left off. Thank you for confirming that you will do an acoustic study.
That's very helpful to know.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I did speak with a community member, that
lives right next to the pickleball courts who was concerned that the
walls would not be effective. So that's helpful to know that you will
measure the before and after. I did have one question around the sound
walls as well. What is the ongoing maintenance cost?
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): We believe the ongoing maintenance costs
would be relatively minor, you know, barring, of course, any kind of
vandalism. But these panels are, basically thick plastic, or, you know,
polyethylene.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Should not, require a ton of maintenance,
maybe replacement every 10 to 15 years. Of course, the manufacturer says
they're good for 20 to 25, so we will see, how that works out.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay, that's great. And do you have a sense
of how high they will be? Because the concern was also that, you know,
the sound would just go over the wall.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): The sound panels will be from the ground,
maybe leaving a half inch at the bottom for drainage purposes, all the
way through the full height of the fence, which is, I think, currently 12
feet, so that will be 12 feet high. That will be part of the analysis,
because yes, some sound will go over that wall, but we want to make sure
that that sound is mitigated enough to bring the noise,
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): concerns now.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay, and then if it was determined that the
mitigation was not sufficient, then what would be the next step from a
CIP standpoint? We would look into.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): what other options there are, and again,
we're going with what we think is the most fiscally responsible option to
block that. We think that anything further would probably cost more, so
we would go back to Council and ask for their input on what they want to
do there.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you. I see that Commissioner Rao has
his hand raised.
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Santosh Rao: Thank you. Director Mosley, I hear you say this is the most
fiscally responsible option.
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Santosh Rao: Are there no other… More fiscally frugal options available
to the city.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I can potentially answer that to somewhat. I
mean, you know, we…
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): we're looking at, or we've been requested to
look at, physical options to help block the sound. You know, with respect
to an actual, you know, concrete sound wall, that would cost a lot more.
There's not really enough
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Space in that area to do any kind of dirt
mound and have it be effective.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And we don't believe that vegetation would
provide the sound attenuation needed. Definitely not in the short term,
but probably not in the long term as well.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Aside from that, there are behavior, items
that we can ask for, like using quiet pickleball, potentially modifying
the hours, but at this point in time, we've just been requested to look
to see what physical options there are available to us.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And I just wanted to remind, the
commissioners that this item is agendized for consistency.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): With the general plan and not the substance
discussion about the actual projects themselves.
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Santosh Rao: That is understood, Atoneibu. My questions are in that
context itself. Thank you.
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Santosh Rao: I was going to… before I was interrupted, let me go back to
my question to Derek Mosley. Is it not true that there is an alternative
that quiet pedals and quiet balls can be mandated that would be fiscally
more frugal?
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I'm gonna ask,
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Director Mosley to evaluate whether that
question goes to general plan consistency. If it isn't, then I do want
to, again, note to the commissioners that this is agendized for brown eye
purposes.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): To find conformance with the general plan.
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Santosh Rao: eterne vu.
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Santosh Rao: if I may point out, Policies in the general plan include
fiscal
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Santosh Rao: Discipline, and so this is definitely in the scope of the
general plan.
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Santosh Rao: There are policies in the general plan that focus on finding
the fiscally most feasible options.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, the question is whether this particular
CIP project is consistent with the general plan.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): The question isn't whether other alternatives
would be consistent, so this is what is before you, Commissioner, and I
respectfully request
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): that we limit our discussion to what has been
agendized under the Brown Act.
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Santosh Rao: Correct. And in order to determine whether this particular
project is the fiscally most
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Santosh Rao: responsible, we ought to be allowed the option to discuss
whether there are other options available in lieu of this option.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I think we can move forward, Chair.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you. So, Commissioner Rao, do you
have any other clarifying questions, not related to alternatives, but
just around this, you know, the CIP?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): items themselves.
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Santosh Rao: Yes, I do object to the overrule of the question. I believe
the General Plan has the…
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Santosh Rao: Fiscal policy as one of its policies, and we are within our
general plan conferments
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Santosh Rao: Criteria to be able to look at fiscal policies.
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Santosh Rao: That are applicable here. We are being asked to spend
$150,000. There are other options that we ought to be able to discuss,
and my question to the director mostly is whether quiet pickleball paddle
is an option or not.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I think that's a yes or no question, Director
Mosley.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And I'm not sure I can answer yes or no. I
mean, that's more of a Parks and Rec, decision. Like I said, Public Works
has been tasked with looking for physical options to address the sound,
and that's what we're looking into. Okay, well, thank you for the
question, Commissioner Rao.
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Santosh Rao: Okay, my next question to Director Mosley is, what is the
proposed material for this sound attunation wall, and what are the
choices of materials that, were looked at for this project?
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Community Hall: Sweet.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Again, we did some early preliminary
conceptual plans. We looked at concrete walls, we looked to see if there
was vegetation that was available. There are a number of, there are
actually pickleball-related products, that are basically polyethylene
that can attach to existing fences.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): One of them is, I think, Acoustablok or
Pickle Block. There's also another one, Hushtex. We've looked at a number
of these. They all seem appropriate, and we will have our engineer
analyze which one's the most appropriate for this, situation.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, Chair, I want to know, for the record,
I've expressed, again, my concerns that we're, not acting consistently
with the Brown Act as agendized, and so I'm going to respectfully request
that you have Commissioner Rao conform to what has been described, you
know, to the… these are good questions that Commissioner Rao is asking.
It just isn't appropriate
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Here, as agendized.
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Santosh Rao: Point, a point of order.
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Santosh Rao: Different materials have different lifespans.
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Santosh Rao: And those lifespans go with the maintenance cost. And so, in
order to Establish general plan conformance.
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Santosh Rao: We need to understand, based on the material that is being
considered, what is the lifespan of these walls?
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Santosh Rao: There is, on the one spectrum, A lifespan of 3 years.
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Santosh Rao: on the other spectrum is a lifespan of 100 years, and so it
is important for us to understand where we stand on that spectrum.
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Santosh Rao: Are we looking at maintenance costs every 3 years, or is
this a 100-year wall, which clearly it's not, because it's not concrete.
So we've got to be able to ask these questions in order to establish what
is the maintenance costs.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rao, I think, Director Mosley
previously said that there's replacement every 10 to 15 years, but, City
Attorney, could you help me understand a little bit what exactly
constitutes discussion around conformance with general plan versus
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): discussion of the item itself. It's just a
little bit hard for me to separate.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, I'll, I'll defer to,
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Capital Improvement Manager Susan Michaels
and Director Mosley to go through the report again and explain how this
particular… these projects, in their opinion, conform to the general
plan.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And, it is your task and responsibility and
duty tonight to evaluate whether, projects can conform to those, and if
they do, then
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): then we found consistency. The question isn't
whether there are multiple other alternatives that may or may not
conform, it's really this one that's presented for you here tonight.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you, that's helpful.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): all right, I think with that, City Clerk, do
we have any public comments?
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We have one speaker remotely, Jennifer
Griffin.
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Santosh Rao: Through the chair, I was not done with my questions yet.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay, then why don't we just pause briefly
for public comments, and then we will return back to the questions.
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Santosh Rao: Thank you.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Welcome, Jennifer.
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Jenny Griffin: Yes, can you all hear me?
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yes, we can hear you.
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Jenny Griffin: Good, thank you. Yes, this is Jennifer Griffin, and, thank
you for the good report of, of these, CIP projects.
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Jenny Griffin: In the spirit of… What we were discussing… I forgot what…
the general plan for the city.
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Jenny Griffin: The 85 on-ramp, which you all were talking about, which is
adjacent to the Westport Sound Wall, and to the, the bridge over 85 from
Stevens Creek Boulevard.
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Jenny Griffin: I… I think under terms of the safety issues from
conformance to the general plan, I have been very, very concerned about
that area for some time, and I'm glad to see that
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Jenny Griffin: actions are being taken to address these issues. I… I'm…
as a member of the public
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Jenny Griffin: I am a bit concerned because of
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Jenny Griffin: where Westport has wound up with the empty lot, etc, but
we're talking about the on-ramp.
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Jenny Griffin: And I do think it's important that the city makes sure
that everything that had been discussed at the time of the development of
Westport, that that is delivered as one package, and part of that is the,
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Jenny Griffin: the 85 on and off ramp there. The bridge over 85 is… it's
not… it's… I think it's past its useful lifespan, and it needs to be
upgraded. The sidewalk on 85, when you go from Westport.
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Jenny Griffin: You walk at the end of Westport, and you're going,
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Jenny Griffin: West to cross the 85 on and off ramp… the off-ramp, and
you're going to get onto the bridge.
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Jenny Griffin: that whole area is… is very substandard. I don't think
it's ADA compliant. It's very narrow on that overpass, and I… I don't
know how much of this is going to address those issues, but I would like
to see
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Jenny Griffin: changes made in that whole area. Also, there's a lot of
weeds that are along Stevens Creek Boulevard. The landscaping is fine for
Westport, but when we're talking about conformance to the general plan
for landscaping, etc, there are weeds and grass and all sorts of strange
things along Stevens Creek Boulevard as you come to that
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Jenny Griffin: side… that crossing, the crosswalk to go onto the bridge
going westbound, and I think that those need to be addressed. I've been
very, very concerned about the
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Jenny Griffin: the general upkeep of that whole corner, it looks really
bad, and it… that is an entrance, everyone sees that area. So I would
hope that, you all can address the safety issues and the landscaping, and
then I'm concerned about that empty lot. Thank you.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Thank you, Jennifer. We have no remaining
speakers, Chair.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you very much. So, we'll return back to
the Commission. Commissioner Rao, you had further questions?
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Santosh Rao: Yes, I believe the… Question around maintenance lifespan.
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Santosh Rao: I'd like to see if I can still get an answer.
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Santosh Rao: Whether a director mostly agrees that the choice of material
would determine the
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Santosh Rao: lifespan, and therefore the maintenance cost. Is that a fair
point, Director Mosley?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I believe I can address that. The product
that we chose, we choose to go with has not been decided yet, so we're
not prepared to…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Go into the details of the project at that
level.
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Santosh Rao: And so then, are we at a point where we can be evaluating
this project for GP confirmance in the absence of those choices?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): In absence of those choices, this project
does meet the general plan
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): conformance in that it reduces the noise
impact to the community, by… no matter which product that we choose. And
we also know that we will be
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Testing whatever is installed to make sure
that we're not only doing a good job, but to see if there's further
improvements that can be made once we take the first step here.
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Santosh Rao: What would be the decibel reduction
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Santosh Rao: That would need to be achieved in order to
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Santosh Rao: To evaluate that the project has met its requirement.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I don't believe we can answer that at this
time.
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Santosh Rao: Is there… is there aspects of the general plan that talk
about what…
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Santosh Rao: Decibel reduction needs to occur for noise attenuation or
noise mitigation?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): It doesn't… the general plan, in my
experience, doesn't get into that level of detail.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): There is the ordinance, though.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): What does the ordinance say? Yeah, there's,
the Muni Code does, provide noise levels within it, and we would look to
see if we could meet those noise levels.
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Santosh Rao: And would we know what that is, or can we find out?
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Yeah, it's in the Muni code.
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Santosh Rao: So, under what basis would we say this plan is confirmant,
or this project is confirmant, or the general plan, if we do not have
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Santosh Rao: Any method to assess whether It does, in fact, achieve the
noise intonation that is
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Santosh Rao: That is being sought.
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And with that… with respect to that, that's
what the… Acoustical analysis is 4.
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Santosh Rao: And when will that be available, and should the GP
confirmants be assessed once that study is available?
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): That plan would not be available until such
time that the project is approved by Council to move forward. And then we
would evaluate the noise analysis, and if it doesn't meet the
requirements, we would, go back to the drawing board and figure out what
other options there are.
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Santosh Rao: Okay, so the MONI code has different decibel level
definitions for different sources of noise, but there is not a decibel
definition for pickleball noise. So what decibel expectation are we
taking from the MONI code right now?
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Santosh Rao: Because there are residential limits, there's construction
decibel limits, there's leaf floor limits, there's interior noise.
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Santosh Rao: So which one are we to look at?
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, let me, let me step in here and just
suggest to Director Mosley I,
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): and Susan Michaels, that, you know, the…
there's an attachment to the Council Report that sets forth those
categories where these projects conform to the general plan. I mean, you
guys want to… you can go through those and explain to Commissioner Rao.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And hopefully that addresses your concerns,
Commissioner Rao, but as earlier indicated, the general plan doesn't get
down to the level of a precise decibel level. For example.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I'm seeing here under… Health and safety,
HS8, this particular project, that that particular
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): sections that says that the goal is to
minimize noise impacts on the community and maintain a compatible noise
environment for existing and future land use. That was the determination
that staff, looked at and believes it's
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): just conforms. And so, if you have questions
about that, feel free to ask them, but it won't go down to the level of
the particular decibel level.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Commission… oh, sorry, yes, Vice Chair?
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): So my question is, as long as a project meets
at least one of these goals, then…
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): it's compliant with the CIP goals, is that
true? Like.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): The pickleball thing doesn't say anything
about fiscal… Anything.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): But it does… meet other criteria.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): So I don't think we…
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): You know, we're not here to determine whether
we like the project or not. We're only here to see if it actually
complies with at least one of these criteria.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Huh, so I'm not sure why we're… You know,
looking into alternative
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): sound reduction strategies, because that's
not… you know, the council's free to do that, but I don't think that's
our job here.
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Santosh Rao: Through… through the chair… the… Health and safety element
has… very detailed… Policies around what Is the decibel ranges.
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Santosh Rao: To which noise is considered acceptable.
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Santosh Rao: And… I draw your attention to
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Santosh Rao: 6-36 of the health and safety element.
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Santosh Rao: And you will see that there's ranges for different…
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Santosh Rao: types of land use categories. So specifically, if you apply
the residential category here, because that is the adjacent land use.
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Santosh Rao: There are decibel ranges to what is acceptable.
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Santosh Rao: Therefore, these points are important to establish.
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Santosh Rao: Whether this project will actually attenuate sound or noise
to a level where the project is considered acceptable.
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Santosh Rao: Failing that, A valid finding is that the project cannot
Show that this… Is, in fact.
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Santosh Rao: Meeting the criteria that is defined in the general plan for
the defined land use.
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Santosh Rao: So I urge my fellow commissioners to look at the health and
safety element, And look at 6-36.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I guess that would… for me, that would be a
follow-up question for Susan or Director Mosley. Is there a reason why
the health and safety element,
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Was not included in the conformance matrix?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): that particular section that Commissioner Rao
is citing?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I'm sorry, which section did he cite?
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Santosh Rao: 6-36.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I'm… I don't have it in front of me, I do
have… 8,
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Sorry, I don't have that section. I have a
much larger matrix.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But I don't have all that in front of me.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And also… I've also tried to…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): condense it down into something that is
digestible, and to get to the heart of the matter, and the specific
details, it may be that what I chose isn't exactly what one of you might
choose if you were going through the detail. It is…
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): mini-page general plan. So, I tried to not
only distill it down for the packet, but also for the presentation.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And I believe that these were the most
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): relevant, goals and policies and strategies,
that was, the working model that I used.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): If I may, Chair, I just have one thing to
add. The point of.
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): This exercise is to…
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Overall pick projects that can move forward
through the process, and then they get designed and further refined as
the process moves along.
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): But if it doesn't even make the list, it
can't even get to that point of that level of review or design. So, if we
don't add this to the list of projects, this project just simply does not
move forward. It just ends at this point.
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And then gets picked up when, you know, we
just need to move it forward in order for it to get designed to meet any
of those standards that may be in the general plan or in the Muni Code,
as far as noise standards go.
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Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Thank you.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): That's helpful clarification.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Alright, any further clarifying questions
before we move to a potential discussion?
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Santosh Rao: Yeah, through the chair, I just want to make the same point
that
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Santosh Rao: That, staff member just made.
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Santosh Rao: Which is that the purpose of
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Santosh Rao: Checks and balances to evaluate confirmments to the general
plan.
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Santosh Rao: is, in fact.
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Santosh Rao: present so that the Planning Commission may do its role to
be able to recommend
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Santosh Rao: Where a project may not be confirmed into the general plan,
that it not move forward.
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Santosh Rao: And therefore, this is not a check-the-box exercise. The
Planning Commission actually has certain powers to be able to recommend
that certain things
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Santosh Rao: may not be confirmed under the general plan.
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Santosh Rao: And… I think part of that is the question of why
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Santosh Rao: the health and safety element has not been considered, I
think we need an answer to that.
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Santosh Rao: Can I… can I ask, Director Mosley or Ms. Michael whether
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Santosh Rao: The health and safety element was considered in general plan
conformance.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rao, I believe Susan just
answered that question. I mean, you can feel free to correct me if I'm
misrepresenting this, Susan, but it was just, it was a discretionary
choice. They chose which general plan items they wanted, and
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): They felt the ones that they chose were the
most salient. That was the answer.
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Santosh Rao: Okay, but we do not have discretion to pick and choose what
we would like to pick.
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Santosh Rao: The entire general plan, And its totality is evaluated for
confirmance.
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Santosh Rao: And as we have been told in the Planning Commissioner
training.
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Santosh Rao: Even a single set of findings.
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Santosh Rao: That our material may, in fact, be used to show that the
plan is not confirmed if those findings are non-compliant.
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Santosh Rao: And the health and safety element is, in fact, a key aspect,
because that is the element that talks about noise. Is there any other…
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Santosh Rao: My question to Director Mosley and Ms. Michael is.
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Santosh Rao: Which element in the general plan talks about noise?
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): In my matrix, if I may, Chair, noise is
health and safety element 8.
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And that was, what was cited. Minimize noise
impacts on the community, and maintain a compatible noise environment for
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Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Existing and future land use.
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Well, at this point, Chair,
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): If appropriate, it sounds like we're beyond
questions, and perhaps you can close that section and just move to
discussion.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Yes, I was actually going to say exactly
that. Commissioner Rao, it seems like you might be moving towards
commentary, and do you have a motion you would like to set forth for
discussion purposes?
314
00:41:09.090 --> 00:41:11.930
Santosh Rao: Through the chair, no, I think,
315
00:41:12.090 --> 00:41:14.679
Santosh Rao: I did have more questions, but
316
00:41:15.540 --> 00:41:19.149
Santosh Rao: I… I guess my next question is going to be around the…
317
00:41:19.490 --> 00:41:22.390
Santosh Rao: Blackberry Farm Golf Course, Pro Shop.
318
00:41:23.370 --> 00:41:26.449
Santosh Rao: On the Blackberry Farm Golf Course Pro Shop.
319
00:41:27.140 --> 00:41:32.180
Santosh Rao: Once again, referring to the general plan policies around
being fiscally
320
00:41:32.580 --> 00:41:38.719
Santosh Rao: Being… picking the most fiscally responsible choice, What is
the…
321
00:41:39.340 --> 00:41:50.949
Santosh Rao: reason that we chose to renovate this, this pro shop when
membership has been declining, and whether there is cost recovery in the,
in the current
322
00:41:51.560 --> 00:41:57.189
Santosh Rao: operations of the Blackberry Farm Golf Shop and the Pro
Shop.
323
00:41:58.600 --> 00:42:05.909
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, Commissioner Rao, again, this… the
purpose of today's agendized item is not to evaluate,
324
00:42:06.550 --> 00:42:23.639
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): the reasonableness, or the best judgment for
engaging in particular projects. You have before you the projects that
has been set forth, and the agendized item before this Commission is to
evaluate whether those items
325
00:42:23.810 --> 00:42:26.530
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): It's consistent with the general plan.
326
00:42:26.540 --> 00:42:36.709
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And staff has taken the effort to provide a
matrix establishing those elements where it is, in their professional
opinion, judgment is consistent with the general plan.
327
00:42:36.710 --> 00:42:47.489
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): It's not about whether there are alternative
projects that should be undertaken, it's not about alternative materials
that should be used. It's about whether the project that's before you
328
00:42:47.570 --> 00:42:50.759
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): As presented in the staff report and
attachments.
329
00:42:51.100 --> 00:42:53.330
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): It's consistent with the general plan.
330
00:42:53.640 --> 00:42:58.569
Santosh Rao: Okay, I have a question at Anibu. Policy LU8.1 of the
General Plan
331
00:42:59.200 --> 00:43:09.170
Santosh Rao: what is the basis to find that we are confirmed with policy
LU81, or conversely, that we may not be confirmed with policy LU8.1?
332
00:43:11.220 --> 00:43:14.750
Santosh Rao: I believe staff references LU8.1 in a few places.
333
00:43:15.260 --> 00:43:17.680
Santosh Rao: LU8.1 talks about fiscal health.
334
00:43:18.010 --> 00:43:24.570
Santosh Rao: In the absence of a meaningful discussion on alternatives,
How can we conclude?
335
00:43:24.820 --> 00:43:27.650
Santosh Rao: That we are confirmant or non-confirmant.
336
00:43:28.070 --> 00:43:30.809
Santosh Rao: with LU8.1, which is in the general plan.
337
00:43:32.190 --> 00:43:41.389
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Chair, I can answer that, or try to. Thank
you. Thank you for the question. The facilities exist. The golf course
has a pro shop.
338
00:43:41.510 --> 00:43:46.969
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And the Sports Center has tennis courts that
need to be resurfaced.
339
00:43:47.080 --> 00:43:56.960
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Both facilities are functional, and we need
to… it is in the best interest of the city to keep those facilities
functioning, including the pro shop.
340
00:43:57.150 --> 00:44:07.699
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And it was determined that it would be
prudent to renovate the pro shop at this time. It is, visually,
obviously, dilapidated, and…
341
00:44:07.700 --> 00:44:20.370
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): has conditions that could be improved for
safety, as well as for efficiency and effectiveness. So, that was why the
project is, deemed to be the fiscally,
342
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:22.350
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Prudent thing to do at this time.
343
00:44:25.390 --> 00:44:32.470
Santosh Rao: I guess I don't understand why we would say that's a
fiscally prudent thing to do, versus to… the…
344
00:44:33.200 --> 00:44:33.640
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Commissioner Row.
345
00:44:33.640 --> 00:44:39.880
Santosh Rao: If you're prevented from discussing alternatives, how do we
evaluate policy LU 8.1?
346
00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:43.220
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I'm sorry.
347
00:44:43.490 --> 00:44:52.070
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Well, I believe the purpose of this
discussion tonight is not to discuss alternatives, so it must remain
within that scope.
348
00:44:52.350 --> 00:44:59.349
Santosh Rao: Through the Chair, that was not the question. The question
was, how do we evaluate for confirmance to policy LU8.1?
349
00:45:04.160 --> 00:45:08.709
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I believe. I believe Captain Brew Manager
Michael has just explained that, Commissioner Rao.
350
00:45:13.060 --> 00:45:19.139
Santosh Rao: Okay, but that's… it's unclear to me how that meets the…
finding for LU8.1.
351
00:45:21.570 --> 00:45:23.930
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): And I… Vice Chair, yes.
352
00:45:24.550 --> 00:45:32.409
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): So… Commissioner Rao, I did bring this up
earlier before you joined the meeting on this specific question on…
353
00:45:32.590 --> 00:45:41.649
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): LU8 dash… LU8 dash… 8.1 and the fiscal
health, I didn't see how…
354
00:45:42.200 --> 00:45:46.659
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): the Pro Shop renovation met that standard,
but…
355
00:45:47.130 --> 00:45:51.480
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): It does meet other general plan standards.
356
00:45:51.620 --> 00:46:00.800
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): So I don't think it has to meet every single
item in the matrix. Just has to meet enough of them, or even just one of
them.
357
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:05.589
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): to qualify, and… You know, the City Council's
free to…
358
00:46:06.230 --> 00:46:13.350
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): you know, change which CIP projects they want
to do, but that's not why we're here tonight.
359
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:22.229
Santosh Rao: to the chair, if I may address the vice chair, we were…
Provided to understand.
360
00:46:23.020 --> 00:46:28.550
Santosh Rao: in the Planning Commissioner Academy, That even a single
finding or non-conformance
361
00:46:28.900 --> 00:46:33.520
Santosh Rao: maybe basis for finding the project non-conferment. Now, I
agree that that might be extreme.
362
00:46:33.830 --> 00:46:37.039
Santosh Rao: But that is what we were told, maybe that can be clarified.
363
00:46:39.380 --> 00:46:50.620
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): City Attorney, would it be correct to say
that if a commissioner felt that something was not in conformance, they
could just make that motion? Or how does that get handled?
364
00:46:52.110 --> 00:46:56.999
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Yes, the Commissioner, any commissioner is
entitled to making a motion they deem appropriate in their judgment.
365
00:46:57.160 --> 00:47:04.900
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Based on the discussion that's presented, and
the evidence, and the facts, and everything else I presented before them
for evaluation.
366
00:47:05.210 --> 00:47:23.719
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): If I may also add, if the Commission finds
that these projects, specifically for LU8.1, don't meet that, we can, you
know, they can strike that one line item, and it can be forwarded on the
basis of the remaining. There's plenty of policies that these projects
are compliant with.
367
00:47:25.250 --> 00:47:26.020
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Vice Chair.
368
00:47:26.260 --> 00:47:39.549
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): So I guess that's a good question. Does a
project have to meet every single criteria? I mean, we… there's always
CIP projects that don't enhance the fiscal health of the city, but that
we want to do anyway.
369
00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:46.409
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): So, I don't think a project has to meet every
single criteria in the matrix, and…
370
00:47:46.560 --> 00:47:54.880
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): You know, of course, I'd be happy to strike
LU Dash 8.1 for the… Pro Shop.
371
00:47:55.030 --> 00:47:58.190
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): It would make no difference. It still meets
the other criteria.
372
00:48:03.010 --> 00:48:09.140
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay, I think with that said, we are ready to
move on to comments, from the Commission. Yes?
373
00:48:09.140 --> 00:48:11.430
Santosh Rao: Through the chair, I did have more questions.
374
00:48:11.630 --> 00:48:30.549
Santosh Rao: May I ask the Chair to not rush the proceedings so that we
may actually take the time needed to do the due diligence needed here? My
next question to either staff or the Atany Wu is, what is considered a
mandatory finding, and if Atni Wu can explain the all-or-nothing rule as
regards to findings?
375
00:48:33.030 --> 00:48:39.050
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I'm not sure if I understand your question
about mandatory findings, but as you heard, as long as there's one.
376
00:48:39.420 --> 00:48:45.019
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): one finding of conformance to the general…
consistency to the general plan, that is sufficient.
377
00:48:47.340 --> 00:48:52.009
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I defer to staff when they've evaluate the
projects, and they…
378
00:48:52.010 --> 00:49:09.799
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): provide a list for you that in their
professional judgment, it conforms to, you know, the item they
identified. For instance, for this pro shop, I mean, to the extent they…
I'm assuming they had discussions with the appropriate department to
identify whether the pro shop is income generating.
379
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:23.860
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): you know, one and two, whether, you know,
improvements to it would also increase, revenue, and I assume the answers
were… both were yes, which is why, in their professional judgment, they
determined that is one element that satisfied.
380
00:49:23.860 --> 00:49:34.629
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): you know, this body is entitled to disagree
with that because of, you know, of lack of evidence presented before you.
However, as we've heard from other commissioners here and from
381
00:49:37.200 --> 00:49:46.430
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Other commissioners here, there are other
findings of consistency, and those would be adequate to find that this
particular project is consistent with the general plan.
382
00:49:47.890 --> 00:49:54.420
Santosh Rao: And so, just a point of clarification, is the attorney able
to explain what the all-or-nothing rule is?
383
00:50:00.100 --> 00:50:05.840
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I have never heard of all-or-nothing rule as
it applies to general plan consistency in this context.
384
00:50:07.590 --> 00:50:12.380
Santosh Rao: Okay, my understanding is… There are a set of mandatory
findings.
385
00:50:12.770 --> 00:50:18.389
Santosh Rao: And of those mandatory findings, all mandatory findings must
be found to be confirmed.
386
00:50:18.900 --> 00:50:24.289
Santosh Rao: And so my question is… What do we consider as mandatory
findings?
387
00:50:28.160 --> 00:50:36.200
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I'm not familiar with the legal requirement
of mandatory findings in connection with this item as agendized.
388
00:50:36.270 --> 00:50:50.800
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I believe it's… the task before you is to
evaluate, as presented to you by staff, whether that particular project
conforms and is consistent with the general plan as they identify an
attachment to this report.
389
00:50:55.180 --> 00:51:02.150
Santosh Rao: Okay, so I'm… what I'm hearing, Chair, if I may paraphrase…
is, I don't believe…
390
00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:19.090
Santosh Rao: we are aligned on the basis for finding a project non-
conformant. My understanding is that there is an all-or-nothing rule that
says that if there are a set of mandatory findings.
391
00:51:20.150 --> 00:51:34.009
Santosh Rao: All mandatory findings must be found confirmed. Not a single
one, as Vice Chair Scharf was inquiring earlier. And so the question
being asked here is, what are considered mandatory findings to which we
cannot get a clear answer
392
00:51:34.290 --> 00:51:41.930
Santosh Rao: Absent that, One may bring up any finding, and if it is non-
confirmant, the project may be
393
00:51:42.630 --> 00:51:46.670
Santosh Rao: motioned to be non-confirmant with the general plan, unless…
394
00:51:46.860 --> 00:51:49.720
Santosh Rao: I hear why that should not be the case.
395
00:51:50.990 --> 00:52:05.539
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, to this body, I want to express my legal
opinion that there is no required mandatory findings for you to determine
that a project as presented to you is consistent with the general plan.
So, please use your best professional judgment.
396
00:52:05.540 --> 00:52:17.549
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): based on the report as presented to you, and
the attachments to that report to determine whether, these, CIP projects
are consistent with the goals in the general plan.
397
00:52:18.050 --> 00:52:19.740
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): That's identified.
398
00:52:22.690 --> 00:52:31.870
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay, so I think, you know, we're… it sounds
like we are moving towards comments at this point, so I'd like to open
this up for comments from the Commission.
399
00:52:35.650 --> 00:52:40.329
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Any comments? Okay, well, I, I personally,
have a few.
400
00:52:41.030 --> 00:52:43.719
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Actually, this might even be a question, but…
401
00:52:43.860 --> 00:52:49.170
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): it might be more of a question. So, on the 85
on-ramp.
402
00:52:49.660 --> 00:52:55.980
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I understand that the on-ramp has a
tightening of the
403
00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:59.310
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Of the… the turn into the freeway.
404
00:52:59.310 --> 00:53:16.610
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): And I understand that we have a new draft
health and safety element, and it has not been approved yet, but to the
extent that we can, I would think it's very prudent to take into account
the draft health and safety element policy, which is to HS
405
00:53:16.610 --> 00:53:30.270
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): 2.1.1, which is to ensure that evacuation
routes into and out of the city have adequate capacity, safety, and
viability in the event of an emergency. And so, I guess my ask would just
be whether we can,
406
00:53:31.290 --> 00:53:42.199
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Keep in mind the capacity of our roadways,
especially as the 85 on-ramp is an important on-ramp for people trying to
exit the city.
407
00:53:43.180 --> 00:53:45.620
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Yes, yes we can. The…
408
00:53:45.720 --> 00:54:04.399
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): plan as it stands now, which is still
conceptual, we don't lose any lanes, no vehicle lanes there. We're just
enhancing, pedestrian and bicycle safety at that intersection. We're
tightening the curve to slow cars down a little bit, as they turn onto
the highway. As it's currently established, cars are…
409
00:54:04.620 --> 00:54:13.019
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Picking up speed as they go around that turn,
because they're trying to get on the highway. We're trying to slow them
down where there is conflict between bicycles and pedestrians.
410
00:54:13.740 --> 00:54:14.960
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you.
411
00:54:14.990 --> 00:54:21.029
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): And then, another comment is around the
pickleball sound wall. So, you know, I understand that this is
412
00:54:21.030 --> 00:54:44.290
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I understand fully the intentions behind this
project, and I just had some notes around LU4, which is neighborhood
preservation, so the city will, you know, basically partner with the
neighborhoods, and welcome the citizens as partners, as well as INF2,
which was cited to ensure that existing facilities meet the community's
needs. And as I
413
00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:59.560
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): had mentioned before, the neighbor directly
living across from the pickleball courts was… was quite concerned that
the wall… there would be no difference with the walls. And so I… I guess
I would ask if… if we are…
414
00:54:59.890 --> 00:55:06.239
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Because this is a solution that is
specifically being designed to meet the community's
415
00:55:06.420 --> 00:55:19.480
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): pain points, that if you could actually
consider, speaking with some of the… there's probably only 4 houses that
are directly across from the pickleball courts, to understand, the
416
00:55:19.480 --> 00:55:29.109
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): the… whether you think… what… what they think
of the solution, before that investment is made, that would be helpful,
just, because I… my understanding from them was
417
00:55:29.450 --> 00:55:47.669
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): they… they didn't think the wall would be
effective. So that's just my ask, is that we, if we are going to site
INF2, to ensure that existing facilities meet the community's needs,
that… that we, speak with the four or five houses that are directly
across. Thank you very much. Commissioner Rao.
418
00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:55.529
Santosh Rao: Yeah, there's a question for, Dr. Mosley and Ms. Michael.
419
00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:59.320
Santosh Rao: There is no wall on the western side of those courts.
420
00:55:59.670 --> 00:56:08.980
Santosh Rao: So why do we believe that noise detonation will actually be
achieved at all when there is no wall and it's completely open on the
western side?
421
00:56:12.500 --> 00:56:24.829
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I think to a certain extent, on the western
side, there is a mound there, in the bleachers, which could, which would
block some of that sound, but all of that will be evaluated with the
sound analysis.
422
00:56:28.910 --> 00:56:29.399
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you.
423
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:32.309
Santosh Rao: Okay, but we… sorry, I was not done. Sorry.
424
00:56:32.600 --> 00:56:38.000
Santosh Rao: But we were told earlier that trees Was not an effective
alternative.
425
00:56:38.740 --> 00:56:41.910
Santosh Rao: And we believe now that a mound would do better than trees.
426
00:56:43.350 --> 00:56:46.150
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Mounds are effective sound blockers.
427
00:56:50.140 --> 00:56:53.520
Santosh Rao: And how far away is the mound from where the courts are?
428
00:56:55.940 --> 00:57:02.060
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I'm not sure that that's germane to the
topic, but it's approximately 20, maybe 15, 20 feet away.
429
00:57:02.890 --> 00:57:06.059
Santosh Rao: And are the mountains in the direction of the homes, or…
430
00:57:06.180 --> 00:57:07.489
Santosh Rao: Perpendicular to it.
431
00:57:10.680 --> 00:57:13.139
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Again, I don't know that that's germane to
the topic here.
432
00:57:14.230 --> 00:57:21.160
Santosh Rao: The topic here is around noise attenuation as experienced by
the homes on the northern side.
433
00:57:21.620 --> 00:57:33.289
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I understand that. No, no, no, I need to step
in. No, that's not the agendized topic, Commissioner Rao. The agendized
topic is whether this project is consistent with the general plan, and
434
00:57:33.370 --> 00:57:44.909
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): That… that explanation is set forth for you
in attachment to report. And I want to state again that I believe this
line of questioning exceeds the agenda as…
435
00:57:44.910 --> 00:57:55.850
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): as required by the Brown Act, and I just want
to remind you that the Brown Act is state law, and that we should be very
careful not to violate
436
00:57:56.240 --> 00:58:06.140
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): it, because this is not a substantive
discussion about the project itself. This is not. And so, please, please…
437
00:58:06.370 --> 00:58:19.159
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I asked you, Commissioner Rao, to consider
your line of discussion about the substantive merits of the project
itself. That is not before you, that is not agendized, that is not
438
00:58:19.260 --> 00:58:20.569
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): for discussion.
439
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:24.900
Santosh Rao: At any woo, my question to you is specifically on HS-8,
440
00:58:25.080 --> 00:58:27.579
Santosh Rao: Which is in the general plan.
441
00:58:28.100 --> 00:58:38.120
Santosh Rao: HS.8 reads, minimize noise impacts on the community and
maintain a compatible noise environment for existing and future land use.
442
00:58:38.870 --> 00:58:39.540
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And I, and I get.
443
00:58:39.540 --> 00:58:43.349
Santosh Rao: That is in the general plan, that is in the general plan,
and the like…
444
00:58:43.350 --> 00:58:44.469
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): The purpose of this…
445
00:58:44.470 --> 00:58:44.980
Santosh Rao: Point of order.
446
00:58:44.980 --> 00:58:45.360
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): projects.
447
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:46.270
Santosh Rao: Point of order.
448
00:58:46.870 --> 00:58:50.719
Santosh Rao: The… the Commissioner has not completed his comment. Point
of order.
449
00:58:51.520 --> 00:58:54.550
Santosh Rao: HS8 is the line of questioning here.
450
00:58:55.210 --> 00:59:03.609
Santosh Rao: And the line of questioning is specific and germane to the
general plan findings, and whether this project is in conformance with
HS8.
451
00:59:03.720 --> 00:59:09.899
Santosh Rao: So I just want to clarify to the point that Agnibu made. We
are operating within the bounds of the general plan.
452
00:59:10.020 --> 00:59:12.049
Santosh Rao: And this is not a violation of the Brown Act.
453
00:59:12.290 --> 00:59:17.560
Santosh Rao: And if it is, then I'd like to understand on what basis we
evaluate HS8.
454
00:59:19.150 --> 00:59:33.740
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, HS8 states it's to minimize noise impacts
on the community and maintain a compatible noise environment for existing
and future land use. So, I want to ask staff, do you believe this project
conforms to that element?
455
00:59:34.275 --> 00:59:37.035
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): That is the intent of this project. Thank
you.
456
00:59:39.140 --> 00:59:40.790
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): That answers your question, Commissioner
Rowell.
457
00:59:41.190 --> 00:59:44.090
Santosh Rao: The operator word that is compatible.
458
00:59:44.680 --> 00:59:48.810
Santosh Rao: And the compatible adjacent use is residential.
459
00:59:49.180 --> 00:59:57.359
Santosh Rao: At the residential noise definition, In the general plan,
is… I believe it's 10 decibel.
460
00:59:58.590 --> 01:00:03.170
Santosh Rao: So, I'm trying to understand What patients are we… Yes.
461
01:00:03.170 --> 01:00:13.570
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Once the project proceeds, we can do an
analysis and see what is achievable. When we go to take the next steps
with awarding the contract.
462
01:00:13.650 --> 01:00:25.309
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): and, developing the project, that will be
public record, and you can comment on the project once it begins. We
aren't at the place where we can talk about the project details
presently.
463
01:00:26.730 --> 01:00:33.729
Santosh Rao: At that point, however, we no longer have the ability to say
that it is not confirming to the general plan, is that right?
464
01:00:34.370 --> 01:00:35.390
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That is correct.
465
01:00:35.720 --> 01:00:51.279
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That is the task tonight, to decide whether
this is conformance… in conformance with the general plan. The General
Plan does have a health and safety element, which asks us to minimize
noise impacts, and that is the intent and the goal of this project.
466
01:00:56.250 --> 01:01:09.590
Santosh Rao: Okay, so I addressed my case to the fellow commissioners
that HS8 provides us the… basis… to…
467
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:13.789
Santosh Rao: Find that this… Project is not confirmed.
468
01:01:14.020 --> 01:01:32.139
Santosh Rao: with the general plan, absent a substantive baseline noise
level study, or any sort of modeling, or on how noise is attenuated when
there is no wall on the western side, that would allow for noise to seep
or escape through on the western side. So I will pause my questioning
here.
469
01:01:32.830 --> 01:01:41.179
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rao, I would respond to that by
saying I think part of this CIP item is to do that study that you are
discussing.
470
01:01:41.940 --> 01:01:42.690
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): So…
471
01:01:42.690 --> 01:01:46.179
Santosh Rao: And the point being made here, Chair.
472
01:01:46.410 --> 01:01:57.029
Santosh Rao: is absent that study, we are not ready to conclude that we
are conferment with the general plan. An alternative approach might be to
require that that study occur before
473
01:01:57.890 --> 01:02:01.879
Santosh Rao: the project come to Planning Commission for verification of
confirmance?
474
01:02:02.160 --> 01:02:13.189
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I'm not clear that there would be a way to
have it come to us first. This is the first step. That said, I mean, if
you felt very strongly that this is not conformant, you could make the
motion.
475
01:02:14.150 --> 01:02:19.990
Santosh Rao: I would… I would actually beg to differ. The noise study
should have been a baseline noise study done.
476
01:02:20.130 --> 01:02:24.299
Santosh Rao: On a change of use of the courts that went from
477
01:02:24.420 --> 01:02:28.150
Santosh Rao: A decibel level that was far lower to what it was for
pickleball, so…
478
01:02:28.380 --> 01:02:37.220
Santosh Rao: there could have already been a baseline noise study, maybe
that is a question to staff. Is there already a pre-existing baseline
study of noise at this location?
479
01:02:37.560 --> 01:02:46.240
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I… I just don't believe that that question
is… is relevant to the CIP discussion at the moment. We are… we are not…
480
01:02:46.550 --> 01:02:55.440
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): here to go in-depth on to, you know, all of
the back study that happened behind each individual CIP item.
481
01:02:57.260 --> 01:02:59.799
Santosh Rao: So, so, we may… we make…
482
01:02:59.980 --> 01:03:05.380
Santosh Rao: We may choose to say that without a baseline noise study, We
cannot…
483
01:03:05.560 --> 01:03:07.520
Santosh Rao: We do not have the basis
484
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:11.400
Santosh Rao: to determine whether HSA8 is found to be confirmed or not.
485
01:03:15.810 --> 01:03:22.810
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I think we're saying that we want to move
forward to allow that study to happen, and then actually make an informed
decision rather than
486
01:03:23.050 --> 01:03:24.860
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): A decision based on nothing.
487
01:03:26.050 --> 01:03:27.290
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Correct, Vice Chair?
488
01:03:28.700 --> 01:03:33.609
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): I think it's time for a motion, I can make a
motion if… no. I make a motion that…
489
01:03:34.070 --> 01:03:44.069
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): We find that the proposed capital improvement
program for fiscal year 2026 to 2027 is consistent with the City of
Cupertino General Plan.
490
01:03:44.910 --> 01:03:45.779
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I'll second that.
491
01:03:46.730 --> 01:03:53.579
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): And, just a question, Vice Chair, did you
want to remove the… I think it was…
492
01:03:54.690 --> 01:03:57.579
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): No. 8.1, the on-fiscal?
493
01:03:57.580 --> 01:04:00.149
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): No, that's fine, to stay there.
494
01:04:00.300 --> 01:04:02.870
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): They mention that they believe it will
generate.
495
01:04:03.330 --> 01:04:06.590
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): positive revenue, so… it's fine.
496
01:04:06.590 --> 01:04:10.290
Santosh Rao: Question to the Vice Chair, would you entertain
497
01:04:10.490 --> 01:04:20.700
Santosh Rao: A friendly amendment to your motion to exclude the…
Pickleball sound detonation from your… proposed motion.
498
01:04:21.100 --> 01:04:21.790
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): No.
499
01:04:24.710 --> 01:04:29.729
Santosh Rao: Are there… are there amendments to this motion that you
might think of that would provide
500
01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:35.290
Santosh Rao: the Commission more leeway and checks and balances on The
level of…
501
01:04:35.540 --> 01:04:37.940
Santosh Rao: Confirmance to the findings around noise.
502
01:04:39.220 --> 01:04:39.890
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): No.
503
01:04:41.570 --> 01:04:57.069
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I think, Commissioner Rao, the way I view
this is whether you agree with the project or not, this discussion is
actually not about that. It's really about whether the item is in
conformance with general plan, and, you know, as Vice Chair said, there's
enough
504
01:04:57.180 --> 01:05:02.459
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): areas where that item is in conformance. So
again, it's just… it's just not obvious.
505
01:05:02.460 --> 01:05:05.220
Santosh Rao: through the chair, I ask you to not misstate
506
01:05:05.410 --> 01:05:10.110
Santosh Rao: any of my statements. At no time have I said I do not agree
on this project.
507
01:05:10.500 --> 01:05:20.619
Santosh Rao: My questions are on the basis of noise and fiscal health,
and whether the city should be spending $150,000 when it is in a
structural budget imbalance.
508
01:05:20.770 --> 01:05:31.050
Santosh Rao: And furthermore, we do not know what is the choice of
material, and as I've pointed out, depending on the choice of material,
the maintenance needs to be done at a 3-year or 5-year interval.
509
01:05:31.200 --> 01:05:34.350
Santosh Rao: To a 10-year, or 20, or 30-year, or a 100-year.
510
01:05:34.690 --> 01:05:42.629
Santosh Rao: We are hearing from staff it's 10 years, so we'll take it at
that. But even every 10 years, spending $150,000 on this project.
511
01:05:42.780 --> 01:05:46.620
Santosh Rao: For maintenance or replacement is a significant cost.
512
01:05:46.930 --> 01:05:51.350
Santosh Rao: For a facility that is non-revenue generating and has no
cost recovery.
513
01:05:51.810 --> 01:05:56.430
Santosh Rao: The city has a cost recovery policy, and we are obligated
514
01:05:56.570 --> 01:06:00.249
Santosh Rao: to keep in mind LU8.1, which is Fiscal health policy.
515
01:06:04.030 --> 01:06:04.770
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Okay
516
01:06:06.050 --> 01:06:14.929
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I did actually want to comment on the fiscal
item. I did visit the golf shop, and I was impressed by how well they had
517
01:06:15.100 --> 01:06:27.569
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): the staff had kept the shop, given the age,
and I can understand the need to renovate it. They've kept it very well
for it never having been touched since its inception, basically.
518
01:06:27.730 --> 01:06:31.759
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Commissioner Rao, you still have your hand
raised. Is there another comment?
519
01:06:35.020 --> 01:06:36.710
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): So… Okay.
520
01:06:37.460 --> 01:06:40.490
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): All right, do we have any further comments on
this motion?
521
01:06:41.750 --> 01:06:44.379
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Then, City Clerk, I think we're ready for a
vote.
522
01:06:45.190 --> 01:06:50.699
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Commissioner Fung? Aye. Commissioner Linskog
is absent. Commissioner Rao?
523
01:06:51.450 --> 01:06:52.080
Santosh Rao: No.
524
01:06:54.350 --> 01:06:56.130
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Vice Chair Scharf? Aye.
525
01:06:56.340 --> 01:06:57.770
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Chair Casolshron?
526
01:06:57.920 --> 01:07:01.379
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Aye. The motion carries, with Commissioner
Rao voting no.
527
01:07:02.590 --> 01:07:17.199
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): All right, thank you very much, and so we
will complete this item, and we will move on. This is… on the Commission
reports, this is just to note that I submitted a written report on
recapping my experience at the Commissioner Academy, as well as my
learnings.
528
01:07:17.200 --> 01:07:23.330
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Into the written record, and that is
available if anyone should want to review it. Do we have any staff
reports?
529
01:07:24.470 --> 01:07:32.340
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Thank you, good evening, Commission again. I
only have one announcement. It's kind of a PSA in terms of the,
530
01:07:32.520 --> 01:07:40.959
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): major projects website that the Planning
Department maintains. It includes a listing of all the major residential
projects that
531
01:07:40.960 --> 01:07:54.019
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): or non-residential projects that the city is
reviewing. Currently, we are reviewing, I want to say 9 residential
projects, but I may be misstating that. The shortcut URL for that
532
01:07:54.020 --> 01:07:56.569
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Website is cupertino.gov.
533
01:07:56.690 --> 01:08:14.220
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): forward slash major projects. So, if anybody
wishes to, view the list of projects that are under review, have been
approved, or have been approved in the distant past and are majored of
note, those are all available on that particular website. And aside from
that, I don't really have much to add.
534
01:08:16.899 --> 01:08:23.749
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you very much, and I realize, just as a
formality, since there is an attachment here, City Clerk, do we have any
public comments on this item?
535
01:08:26.489 --> 01:08:29.369
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We have no speakers, Chair. Thank you very
much.
536
01:08:29.370 --> 01:08:34.500
Santosh Rao: Sorry, point of order. Did we ask other commissioners for
any commission reports?
537
01:08:36.160 --> 01:08:52.509
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): So my report was really just on the
experience at the Planning Commissioner Academy, and I… I think I had
mentioned this, actually, a few… two meetings ago, when the other
commissioners gave their verbal report, that I was planning on submitting
a written report.
538
01:08:53.090 --> 01:08:55.240
Santosh Rao: Sorry, Chair, my question was whether
539
01:08:55.729 --> 01:08:59.229
Santosh Rao: The chair called for commission reports from other
commissioners.
540
01:09:00.590 --> 01:09:02.749
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I, I did not call for…
541
01:09:02.920 --> 01:09:08.659
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Let's do it. We haven't finished the item
yet. Okay, yes, are there other reports from other commissioners?
542
01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:17.949
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): There are no other reports. Okay, then we
will move to future agenda setting.
543
01:09:18.240 --> 01:09:21.110
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Any items for future agenda setting?
544
01:09:22.590 --> 01:09:26.840
Santosh Rao: Through the Chair, I think a number of future agenda items
have been proposed. Can we…
545
01:09:27.450 --> 01:09:31.410
Santosh Rao: Can we… what would be the appropriate
546
01:09:31.740 --> 01:09:34.999
Santosh Rao: Method to understand the disposition of
547
01:09:35.540 --> 01:09:39.319
Santosh Rao: Proposed future agenda items that were previously offered.
548
01:09:40.160 --> 01:09:50.699
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Yes, it's an excellent question, because I
know that I'm not supposed to be discussing things that are not
agendized. I don't know, City Attorney, if there's a way to discuss the
items that were requested.
549
01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:55.600
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, thank you, Chair. So, Commissioner Rao,
550
01:09:55.750 --> 01:10:14.439
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Staff will… has been compiling the list of
items that, that has been identified during this particular agenda item,
and, at some future date, those items will be returned to this commission
for, evaluation.
551
01:10:18.380 --> 01:10:22.240
Santosh Rao: Through the chair, a number of subcommittees have been
proposed.
552
01:10:22.370 --> 01:10:24.730
Santosh Rao: Which do not require staff bandwidth.
553
01:10:25.180 --> 01:10:35.439
Santosh Rao: I would urge the chair to… Use the chair's discretion To
agendaize subcommittees, Allowing commissioners to take
554
01:10:36.110 --> 01:10:43.259
Santosh Rao: forward… Studies that can occur in parallel with staff
activity that may be
555
01:10:43.650 --> 01:10:50.160
Santosh Rao: fairly, consumed with the various projects that are in
review currently. So we have a number of
556
01:10:50.270 --> 01:10:53.779
Santosh Rao: subcommittee future agenda items that I hope will get
agendized.
557
01:10:55.760 --> 01:11:11.730
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you, Commissioner Rao. I understand it
is somewhat within my discretion, but it's not quite as simple as just,
creating a subcommittee at my own will. So, hopefully we can find a way
to communicate back on the subcommittees and all the other proposals.
558
01:11:12.660 --> 01:11:19.779
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): All right, so, any other future agenda items
to discuss? None? Then we will adjourn this meeting. Thank you very much.