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100:00:03.540 --> 00:00:17.330Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Good evening, everyone, and happy birthday to Apple. I call this open session of the special meeting of the Cupertino City Council, April 1st, 2026, to order. It is 648.
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Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Madam City Clerk, will you please call the roll?
300:00:23.610 --> 00:00:25.420Speaker 1 (Community Hall): How's my friend. Here.
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Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Rohan Here. Customer Wong? Present.
500:00:29.940 --> 00:00:31.320Community Hall: Mayor Chao? Here.
600:00:31.320 --> 00:00:32.960Speaker 1 (Community Hall): A more. Here.
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00:00:33.250 --> 00:00:35.920Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.
800:00:39.260 --> 00:00:51.169Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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00:01:00.750 --> 00:01:04.280Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, Madam City Attorney, do we have a closed session report?
1000:01:07.790 --> 00:01:13.100Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Loy, is your microphone on? We do, thank you.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): This evening, there were two items on the agenda for closed session. Council heard both items, and there's no reportable action taken.
1200:01:21.550 --> 00:01:30.299Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. Madam City Clerk, do we have any postponements and orders of the day? No postponements, Mayor. Okay, do we have any postponements and orders of the day from
members of the Council?
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00:01:31.290 --> 00:01:46.919Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Hearing none, we move on to public hearings. The first is item 3. The subject is to consider a tentative map, architectural and site approval, and tree removal permit for the construction of a 51-unit townhome condominium development on,
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Speaker 1 (Community Hall): move on to the Summerhill Homes, site, which is also known as Evilich Court. Madam City Manager, do we have a… Mayor? Yes?
1500:01:58.190 --> 00:01:59.680Speaker 2 (Community Hall): We called the roll just yet.
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Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I did it out of order. Thank you. So, thank you. So we did have the roll call. So we are considering a tentative map for the Summerhill Homes project on Ebulich Court. Madam City Manager, do we have a staff report?
1700:02:15.645 --> 00:02:20.424Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you, Mayor. We do have a staff report, and I just want to introduce this
item.
1800:02:20.430 --> 00:02:25.879Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Briefly, the Council is being requested to review permits to develop a 51-unit townhome.
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): The proposed development is utilizing several provisions of the various state
laws to expedite this housing development, including density bonus, SB330 and AB130. Staff has received
many questions from council members, and I just want to say that the city staff has worked diligently to
answer
2000:02:43.330 --> 00:02:53.919Speaker 3 (Community Hall): And tried to answer most of them, if not all of them. In addition to the prep sessions, we've issued multiple supplemental reports, with responses to,
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): So that everybody has this information, and there's also a desk item that was issued today.
2200:02:58.720 --> 00:03:13.569Speaker 3 (Community Hall): We have also attached the fire department's response to these supplemental
and desk items. Presenting the project tonight will be Senior Planner Emi Suigama, and her… and with her is
the Assistant Director of Community Development, Luke Connolly.
2300:03:13.570 --> 00:03:23.880Speaker 3 (Community Hall): In addition to the Interim City Attorney, Floyd Andrews, we also have Pam Lee
from Elshire and Winder to answer any questions. And with that, I will now turn it over to staff for the
presentation.
2400:03:27.680 --> 00:03:41.759Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Excuse me. May I just ask one more thing? I think that it would make sense for
us at this moment to address a seemingly controversial, conflict of interest issue.
2500:03:44.070 --> 00:03:59.130Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you. I just wanted to, address the fact that I have spoken at length with Councilmember Mohan, and we have talked through, the details of, the location of her home, which is…
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Approximately 930 feet from the development site. And, we worked through
the regulations, and there are
2700:04:07.880 --> 00:04:25.909Speaker 2 (Community Hall): five specific, determiners that, one looks to to determine if there's a conflict based on a council member's real property being within a certain distance of a project development. When a property is within 500 feet.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): It's, basically the council member who owns the property is conflicted, unless there's clear and convincing evidence that there is no conflict.
2900:04:34.360 --> 00:04:48.910Speaker 2 (Community Hall): When the property is within 500 to 1,000 feet from the property, then you look
to 5 specific factors to determine whether there's a conflict, and any property that's greater than 1,000 feet
is presumed not to be material, so no conflict.
3000:04:49.010 --> 00:04:57.429Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And those factors are the development potential of the project… of the property, of the home, or the piece of property owned by the council member.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): It's income-producing potential, It's highest and best use?
3200:05:03.090 --> 00:05:11.440Speaker 2 (Community Hall): It's character by, looking at traffic levels, intensity of use, parking view, privacy, noise levels, or air quality.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And as you look at those specific items, you determine whether those items will
be impacted, whether the home of the council member will be impacted in any of those categories, by the,
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): project to be developed, within the vicinity of the home. And, the
councilwoman and I looked at those in detail, and, she determined that her home would not be impacted,
3500:05:42.910 --> 00:05:49.690Speaker 2 (Community Hall): by the development, and the conversation suggested to me that that is true.
And then, in addition to that, we…
3600:05:49.780 --> 00:06:05.049Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Hired an appraiser who, is specialized in these kinds of issues, and he spent some time looking at both properties and considering the neighborhoods and the development site, and he orally reported to me
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): That he felt that there was no conflict, and his conclusion was that the council
member is not conflicted based on the location of her home, and he will be providing a written report to that
effect early next week.
3800:06:16.390 --> 00:06:20.480Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And so, the conclusion is that Councilmember Mohan's home
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Someone in the neighborhood, but it's, 950 feet away from the project site,
and it's in,
4000:06:29.100 --> 00:06:44.240Speaker 2 (Community Hall): area of single-family homes, and it's included within the middle of that area, so her home is really protected from the busier streets that might have more parking, I mean, might have more
traffic, and so, the
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00:06:44.250 --> 00:06:53.429Speaker 2 (Community Hall): My conclusion is that she's not conflicted, and it's my understanding that Councilmember Mohan agrees that she is not conflicted and doesn't feel conflicted. Is that true?
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): That is true.
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00:06:54.870 --> 00:06:59.399Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And so, Councilmember Mohan will be able to participate in the vote on this item. Thank you.
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Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. I see a hand raised by Vice Mayor Chao.
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00:07:06.810 --> 00:07:12.900Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, has the city sought any comment from the FPCC on this matter?
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00:07:12.900 --> 00:07:13.650Speaker 4 (Community Hall): you, Julie.
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): did earlier? We haven't because there wasn't enough time.
4800:07:18.860 --> 00:07:23.420Speaker 2 (Community Hall): But it's true, we have not sought opinion from the FPPC.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): even started the process.
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00:07:25.385 --> 00:07:33.025Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Well, it's not a necessary step. Many, many cities don't go through that process, and so we have not done so.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Back in 2019, when I first got on the council, and, my home is, about 950, 950
feet from the property line of Vocal, and the city attorney at the time advised me that, they immediately
5200:07:51.565 --> 00:07:55.615Speaker 4 (Community Hall): and got into… on a point.
5300:07:55.765 --> 00:08:11.245
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): sought a comment from FPPC, and before FPPC can decide on the matter, the
city attorney advised me to recuse from all discussion of vocal until a comment comes from
5400:08:11.245 --> 00:08:17.245Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the FPPC, and FPPC, the comment letter says if it will
5500:08:17.385 --> 00:08:29.235
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): were on general plan amendment to a citywide issue. I'm not conflict.
However, if it's a specific project approval, they will decide at that time.
5600:08:29.745 --> 00:08:36.945Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So that's the common practice, I believe, that we have been doing in the city.
5700:08:37.179 --> 00:08:44.849
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I understand. That is not my understanding of, of the, the legal requirements,
and,
5800:08:45.209 --> 00:08:47.059Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I, I believe that
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00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:58.539Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Determining that a council member is conflicted, so that the council member is unable to vote, has implications for democracy, and that, we have
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): made a very detailed and thorough, investigation of the issue, and, have
determined, along with a separate professional, that the Councilmember is not conflicted. And we certainly can, ask for, sort of, like, after-the-fact advice from the FPPC. But for today, I think that, the Councilwoman is,
6100:09:22.059 --> 00:09:23.759Speaker 2 (Community Hall): In a position to vote.
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00:09:24.470 --> 00:09:25.220Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you.
6300:09:25.380 --> 00:09:31.900Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Councilmember Wong? I also object to this, why I like Councilmember Moen very much. I think that.
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00:09:31.900 --> 00:09:49.600Speaker 5 (Community Hall): challenges in this room. Many housing advocacy groups and other lobbyists have pushed really hard in the past to tell certain members that they had to be recused, and we applied the same standard on the FPPC requirement. Even though maybe that was incorrect, it just feels that this is unfair. I'll just leave it at that.
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Community Hall: And Councilmember Mohan.
6600:09:53.380 --> 00:09:59.529Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So I just wanted to, validate some of the information that, the City Attorney has provided.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): For the record, I do want to disclose that my home is located about 959 feet
away from the Village Court site.
6800:10:08.390 --> 00:10:23.209Speaker 6 (Community Hall): I am in the so-called gray zone, where recusal or non-recusal is sort of not clearly spelled out, and as a result of that, the city attorney walked me through a whole list of questions where I had to
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): answer what I thought was, fit or appropriate, in relation to my home and the impact on my home.
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00:10:32.900 --> 00:10:37.220Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Believe me, it would have been much easier to recuse myself.
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And until a couple of hours ago, I was sorely tempted.
7200:10:43.690 --> 00:10:45.210Speaker 6 (Community Hall): But,
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): But I don't believe that's the right thing to do. During these past few weeks,
not only have I had detailed discussions with the city attorney, as she pointed out, we've had an
independent appraiser who works as an expert witness in litigation matters, scope out my neighborhood,
scope out my home.
7400:11:05.800 --> 00:11:10.660Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And the conclusion is that there is no specific or material
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): financial impact on my home as a result of this development. In other words,
whichever way I vote, I will be impacted as much or as little as the rest of the neighborhood.
7600:11:23.110 --> 00:11:25.890Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And that's all I want to see for now. Mia. All right.
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Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. In contrast, I'm about 600 feet as the crow flies from the Finch
property. However, you can't get there from my house directly. You need to go about 1,500 feet, to… to access that site. So I requested informal advice, did a phone call.
7800:11:49.475 --> 00:12:03.885Speaker 1 (Community Hall): with FPPC, and I was told that I would really need the formal advice for it, so I sent a letter with all the information requesting formal advice, and they advised me to recuse.
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00:12:03.885 --> 00:12:07.945Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So I wanted to offer that up as an alternative.
8000:12:08.500 --> 00:12:15.510Speaker 4 (Community Hall): method, yes. Vice Mayor. So, how long did it take? So, the phone call, informal advice was… Well, that was.
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00:12:15.515 --> 00:12:21.515Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I was instant. And then the formal advice, I believe, is 21 days.
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And the way he didn't have time for that?
8300:12:28.940 --> 00:12:30.899Speaker 2 (Community Hall): No, Vice Mayor, we did not.
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00:12:32.400 --> 00:12:43.670Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I would respectfully disagree, because we knew the item was coming, and then we've postponed it. But with that, can we move on through the City Manager to the staff report?
8500:12:44.070 --> 00:12:46.320Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. I will turn it over to staff.
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00:12:51.740 --> 00:12:57.709Speaker 3 (Community Hall): All right, good evening again. ME Sugyama City staff here today to discuss the request from Summerhill Homes for a.
8700:12:57.710 --> 00:12:58.940Speaker 7 (Community Hall): townhome development.
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00:13:00.990 --> 00:13:10.480Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Alright, so this project site is located on Linda Vista Drive. It's within the Monta Vista neighborhood, and it backs up to Deep Cliff Golf Course.
8900:13:10.700 --> 00:13:18.179Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The property is zoned R3TH for medium-high density multifamily with a
townhome allowance.
9000:13:20.690 --> 00:13:33.259Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The property currently has 4 single-family residences, and in October of 2024, the applicant submitted a preliminary application under Senate Bill 330, which vested the standards that were in place at that time.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Additionally, the project site is identified as priority housing sites 25 through
28, and was rezoned for medium-high density through the city's sixth cycle housing element update.
9200:13:49.640 --> 00:13:58.400Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The project makes use of a number of state housing laws. These include the Housing Accountability Act, which limits the city's ability to deny or condition a project.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Additionally, it stipulates that the City cannot apply non-objective standards to
a housing development project.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): SB330, otherwise known as the Housing Crisis Act, streamlines the permitting process, and as noted, it allows the applicant to lock in and or vest fees and standards that are in place at the time that they submit a preliminary application.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The project is also making use of the state's density bonus law, which allows
for additional units, waivers, concession, and reduced parking standards. For this project, the applicant is only making use of the allowed concessions and waivers.
9600:14:36.020 --> 00:14:46.919Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Finally, the City is subject to the requirements of the No Net Loss Law under Senate Bill 166, which requires the City to maintain a list of housing sites that can accommodate the required
RENA.
9700:14:49.920 --> 00:15:07.979Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Here you can see an overview of the project's consistency with typical development requirements. The project is proposing to build at the lowest allowed density for the site. The applicant has also increased the site setbacks adjacent to neighboring residences, as well as the rear setback, which, again, abuts Deep Cliff Golf Course.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Additionally, the applicant is utilizing density bonus waivers to address some of
these requirements, and we'll go over those in more detail later in this presentation.
9900:15:19.400 --> 00:15:20.390Speaker 7 (Community Hall): All right.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): the…
10100:15:22.550 --> 00:15:38.479Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Project consists of 20… or sorry, 51 town-style home-style condominium units, and they're spread across 10 buildings. There are 10 below market rate units proposed, and 41 market rate units. There's a mix of 3 to 6 units per building.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): With each building being 3 stories high.
10300:15:42.180 --> 00:15:48.680Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The proposed units range from about 2,300 to 2,700 square feet, and that's including their garages.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): A two-car garage is provided for each unit, and the project also incorporates a central outdoor space for residents.
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00:15:57.280 --> 00:16:03.980Speaker 7 (Community Hall): 50 new trees will be planted on site, and 2 existing oak trees along the shared property line will be protected in place.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Here you can see the proposed site layout.
10700:16:09.650 --> 00:16:13.180Speaker 7 (Community Hall): With the 10 buildings oriented towards Linda Vista Drive.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The site divided by Evilich Court, which is an existing public right-of-way.
10900:16:18.700 --> 00:16:23.369Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And the proposed BMR units in this are demarcated by the red circles.
11000:16:28.060 --> 00:16:36.870
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The project is consistent with the applicable objective standards of the City's
General Plan, Below Market Rate Housing Manual, and the Municipal Code.
11100:16:37.410 --> 00:16:46.910Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The project includes a concession under the density bonus law to waive the requirement that the BMR units be comparable to the market rate units in terms of unit type.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): the project.
11300:16:49.070 --> 00:16:50.670Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Also,
11400:16:51.540 --> 00:17:07.069
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): is using… utilizing five density bonus waivers, but prior to that, I'll note that the
concessions and waivers proposed under density bonus law can only be denied under specific circumstances,
including that they have an adverse impact on historic property, health, or safety.
11500:17:08.200 --> 00:17:23.889Speaker 7 (Community Hall): For each of the waivers that are requested, the applicant has noted that imposing the standards could potentially result in elimination of units, reduced floor areas, or a substantial change to the design of the buildings, which is not consistent with the project as proposed by the applicant.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The first of the five waivers is for a modification to allow for a 12-foot streetside setback along Evil Edge Court, or sorry, to allow for a 3 foot 7-inch setback, where a 12-foot street-side setback is required.
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00:17:41.410 --> 00:17:44.349Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The second way here is to allow for a…
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): reduced clearance for private open space. This would allow for about 4.5 feet,
where 6 feet is typically required.
11900:17:54.800 --> 00:18:08.739Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And the final three waivers would be to allow for an increase in the height of the buildings from 30 feet to a maximum of 40 feet 7 inches, an increase in the maximum floor area ratio from 85% to 136%,
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And a reduction in the required parking space size from 9.5 by 20 feet to 9.5 by 18 feet.
12100:18:20.810 --> 00:18:27.080Speaker 7 (Community Hall): While this is not required as part of the planning entitlement, the project will also be required to provide public art.
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00:18:27.310 --> 00:18:39.200Speaker 7 (Community Hall): As part of the post-itlement approvals. At this time, the applicant is proposing to provide a public art plaza at the southern corner of Evilich de Vista.
12300:18:42.610 --> 00:18:47.060Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Based on the project site characteristics, staff has recommended that the
applicant
12400:18:47.600 --> 00:19:01.979Speaker 7 (Community Hall): or has recommended, and the applicant has requested, payment of the park in lieu fee, rather than providing park land, and this is consistent with the Quimby Act. If I might ask for a moment… I might ask for…
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay, adds.
12600:19:12.450 --> 00:19:13.300Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Thank you.
12700:19:13.930 --> 00:19:16.049
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): As part of the project, the…
12800:19:16.510 --> 00:19:24.890Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Applicant is also proposing a pedestrian and bike trail connection between the project site and Stevens Creek Trail to the rear.
12900:19:25.280 --> 00:19:31.870Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Should it be approved, the applicant is also requesting a credit towards Park and Luffy for the cost to construct the connection.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The project was also reviewed against the City's BMR requirements, and staff has found that the BMR units are generally comparable in size to the market rate units, with the BMR units being an average of about 2,300 square feet, and the market rate units being an average of about 2,700 square feet.
13100:19:51.320 --> 00:19:52.160
Community Hall: Decision.
13200:19:54.240 --> 00:20:01.219Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Additionally, the project has been found to qualify for a statutory exemption under the provisions of Assembly Bill 130.
13300:20:01.420 --> 00:20:08.109
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): In an analysis for this exemption, the city's third-party consultant reviewed the
environmental reports that are listed on this slide.
13400:20:08.580 --> 00:20:13.250Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And also confirmed that the project would not have significant impacts on the environment.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): That it met the criteria for the exemption.
13600:20:16.580 --> 00:20:25.690Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The exemption outlined in AB130 also includes a number of processing timelines, which would require the City to make a decision on this project by April 4th.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): As I previously noted, this project site was listed in the housing element
update.
13800:20:33.900 --> 00:20:38.059Speaker 7 (Community Hall): which increased the allowed density of the site in July of 2024.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Following the rezoning of the site, the applicant submitted their SB330
application, vesting the standards that were in place at that time.
14000:20:46.570 --> 00:20:55.740
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Approximately 4 months later, the CAL FIRE high hazard maps were updated,
which indicated now that the project site is located in a very high fire hazard area.
14100:20:57.190 --> 00:21:08.670Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Consistent with the requirements for the EB130 exemption, the project has
been reviewed and found to be consistent with the current standards for development within this very high
fire hazard severity zone.
14200:21:11.500 --> 00:21:26.679Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And at their February 24th meeting, the Planning Commission voted to approve this project. The Commission was unanimous in its support of the project, but voted 3-2 to support credit of a parkland in Luffy for construction of the trail connection.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The discussion at the Planning Commission centered mainly on fire safety
concerns, as well as some potential traffic impacts, as well as general project design.
14400:21:42.090 --> 00:22:00.679Speaker 7 (Community Hall): As noted before, the project has received a large number of public inquiries and comments throughout its review, so as such, in addition to the standard noticing, the City also sent out
mailers to properties within a 1,000-foot radius, as well as providing e-notifications for those who signed up
for them.
14500:22:01.280 --> 00:22:04.009Speaker 7 (Community Hall): The majority of the public comments that were received.
14600:22:04.370 --> 00:22:11.649
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Related… were related to concerns with the project's density, the anticipated
traffic impacts, and the perceived increased fire risk.
14700:22:13.310 --> 00:22:24.119Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And with that, staff recommends that your Council adopt the draft resolutions to find the project exempt from CEQA, make the no net loss finding, and approve permits based on the draft resolutions.
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): And the applicant is here and does have a presentation as well, but I'm here
until then, if you have any questions.
14900:22:33.410 --> 00:22:42.849Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Madam City Manager will be… do you suggest that we have questions from the Council first of our staff report, or do we move on to the, the applicant?
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Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Mayor, I believe that's appropriate if you have questions of staff now. Okay.
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Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, do we have any clarifying questions from the City Council? And we'll begin with Councilmember Wong, followed by Councilmember Fruen, Councilmember Mohan, Vice Mayor Chao, and then myself, each, receiving 5 minutes each, and then we will continue until our, questions have completed. So, Councilmember Wong, do you have any clarifying questions? Not at this moment. I'll reserve my time for later.
152
00:23:11.665 --> 00:23:14.034Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, Councilmember Fruen?
15300:23:15.695 --> 00:23:22.224Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I don't want to get too ahead of myself, but I do have a few, just mostly for the benefit of the public, based upon.
154
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:40.000Speaker 8 (Community Hall): the emails that I've received so far. I'm hoping that you can perhaps… I did ask this question, by way of supplemental, it's in the desk item, if people want to find it, but I wanted to make sure it was also aired here, if either
15500:23:40.430 --> 00:23:47.009
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Luke or Emmy, you can go over the history of this site being in the housing
element, I would appreciate it.
15600:23:47.980 --> 00:23:51.170Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Sure, it's a nice, open-ended question.
15700:23:51.440 --> 00:23:54.570
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): The housing element site analysis.
15800:23:54.830 --> 00:24:02.170Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Largely ran the first 8 months of 2022, approximately January, concluded the very end of August.
15900:24:03.650 --> 00:24:22.219
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): part of that process was having property owners contact the city per what HCD
was looking for to describe their interest in developing their properties by 2031. I don't remember the exact
date, but this site was submitted early by the property owners, probably around February 2022.
16000:24:22.390 --> 00:24:27.790Speaker 9 (Community Hall): To indicate that they had wanted to proceed with a townhome density-type project.
161
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, this site was referenced on the drafts that proceeded through that year.
16200:24:34.550 --> 00:24:41.480
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): We held hearings with the Planning and Housing Commission end of June, and
I believe July 5th.
16300:24:41.940 --> 00:24:48.250Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Where we went over all the sites that had been identified. This was one of
them. It was supported by both commitments.
16400:24:48.650 --> 00:24:55.559Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And at the end of August, there were similar hearings held on the 29th and 30th with the City Council.
16500:24:55.980 --> 00:25:06.419
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): where this site was also included in the draft inventory at that time. While we
didn't have zoning designations at that time, we were setting minimum densities, and
16600:25:06.580 --> 00:25:13.279Speaker 9 (Community Hall): The discussion had been, to have this site be a minimum density of 30 units per acre. It's about 20 now.
167
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And I believe one of the property owners spoke at the meeting, again,
reminding us that they had wanted to do a townhome-type development, so the density was then lowered to
20 minimum, which is pretty much what we have at this point in time. So, this was one of the early sites, it's been included in the process throughout,
16800:25:32.430 --> 00:25:36.400Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And that's really about it. We've had the application on file for some time as
well.
169
00:25:36.820 --> 00:25:43.409Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And it was in every submission to HCD from the very first submission onward, yes.
17000:25:43.640 --> 00:25:44.210
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Yep.
171
00:25:44.215 --> 00:25:49.634Speaker 9 (Community Hall): The first submission to HCD was, I think, February 3rd of 2023?
17200:25:49.905 --> 00:25:55.364Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And this was included, in that draft and all subsequent drafts.
173
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay. One of the… Other things that we have received is…
174
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Speaker 8 (Community Hall): An analysis that was performed by a resident.
17500:26:12.970 --> 00:26:20.910Speaker 8 (Community Hall): of evacuation times and so forth, and I would like to know if you have had the
opportunity to review it.
17600:26:21.060 --> 00:26:25.809Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And whether you think it is something that can constitute substantial evidence.
17700:26:27.580 --> 00:26:36.520Speaker 9 (Community Hall): We have received a lot of material on this, so I have seen the study that was
done earlier, I don't know if it's been refined.
17800:26:38.050 --> 00:26:45.770Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I think one of the issues related to an evacuation study is we do not have one for this project because one was not required.
17900:26:45.990 --> 00:27:02.440
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): It's an AB130 project, so there is no requirement under that CEQA, that
statutory exemption of CEQA for one. And also, the city does not have a requirement or even criteria to
review such a study if we were to have it. It would be… no.
18000:27:02.860 --> 00:27:10.310Speaker 9 (Community Hall): even if one had the expertise to review it, which I certainly would not put myself in that category, since it's a transportation-related item.
181
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): We have nothing to really measure it against to say that the conclusions would
be significant or not. Okay, alright.
18200:27:17.095 --> 00:27:32.185Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Similarly, there's been a lot of discussion of the Farron Piers report that is part of the health and safety element revision. Can you describe a little bit about what that is for, and what its
applicability here would be?
183
00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:43.020Speaker 9 (Community Hall): The Farron Piers analysis is being done solely because we're in the process of updating our health and safety element, and that's required under
18400:27:43.350 --> 00:27:48.240
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Assembly Bill 747, when you do a safety element update.
185
00:27:48.670 --> 00:27:56.590Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So that's not looking at any specific site at all, it's really… evaluation of the city's
18600:27:56.720 --> 00:28:04.939Speaker 9 (Community Hall): road network and capacity if you were to have to evacuate within a certain period of time in a certain area, so it makes
187
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Different assumptions, largely related to wildfire, different times of the year, different times of day.
18800:28:11.240 --> 00:28:17.530Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And how that could affect getting vehicles mostly off of the west side to safe areas.
189
00:28:17.930 --> 00:28:29.080Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Again, it's very general, very broad. I think it's a study that's used as a starting point, that if you wanted to do additional analysis in terms of evacuation or safety studies, but…
19000:28:29.370 --> 00:28:32.540Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Yeah, it does not pertain to this project.
191
00:28:32.660 --> 00:28:40.570Speaker 9 (Community Hall): This project is in a very high-fire hazard zone, as are 700 and some others, and another 700 in a high-fire zone, so…
19200:28:40.990 --> 00:28:48.000Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I think that's really just a starting point for potential future studies, if you
wanted to refine that more, or…
19300:28:48.180 --> 00:28:53.669Speaker 9 (Community Hall): looking at measures the city could take to be more efficient if an evacuation were necessary. Okay.
19400:28:53.675 --> 00:29:06.965
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I'm running over my time, but just very quickly, when we… I shouldn't say
when we, I wasn't on the council at the time, but when, this site was originally included in the housing
element,
19500:29:07.695 --> 00:29:12.444Speaker 8 (Community Hall): This was already a high-fire hazard severity site, was it not? Yes.
196
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): went from high to very high. Very high. Okay, alright. Thank you.
19700:29:19.400 --> 00:29:22.320Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. Next, Councilmember Mohan?
19800:29:24.590 --> 00:29:38.090Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Thank you. Many residents have raised a concern about lack of adequate noticing, and I know this comes up every time there's discussion on a new development.
199
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Could you, go over quickly, how, this project was noticed, and what, in general.
20000:29:47.510 --> 00:29:52.600Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Is it… are you noticing, regulations.
201
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Let me add something, then I'll turn this project-specific noticing to Emmy. I think some of the comments about noticing had related to
20200:30:01.660 --> 00:30:08.289Speaker 9 (Community Hall): It being designated a housing element site, and people not being aware of the rezoning that occurred in 2024.
203
00:30:08.600 --> 00:30:16.530Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And that may be because there was no individualized mailing, because we were, at that time, rezoning 58 individual properties.
20400:30:16.670 --> 00:30:21.750Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And the total noticing put us in, I forget the number, but it was several
thousand.
20500:30:21.940 --> 00:30:29.559Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Which, at that point, under state law, does not require a mailing, but you're able to do this through noticing through a newspaper.
20600:30:29.810 --> 00:30:39.659
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, the project-specific notice I can let Emmy talk about, now that there's
actually an application on file, is very different, but I do believe the initial
20700:30:40.080 --> 00:30:47.940Speaker 9 (Community Hall): comment from the neighborhood was that they didn't receive mail notices when the rezoning occurred, and that is true. There was no mailing done at that time.
208
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Because this was done… Along with all the other Housing Element sites at that
time.
20900:30:54.260 --> 00:30:56.219
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And there was no application on file.
210
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And was there a specific noticing done later?
21100:31:02.950 --> 00:31:22.120Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Right. For the project, we followed the typical noticing requirements for publication within a newspaper at least 10 days prior. We also sent out mailed notices. Again, instead of the
typical 300 feet, we expanded it to 1,000, about 1,000. It's kind of a regular shape for our radius. For other
mailers, I believe that
21200:31:22.420 --> 00:31:38.149Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Equated to almost 500, mailed notices going out, and then we had electronic notices as well, because the applicant had hosted a number of community events, and then we also had a number of community events that we attended, so we were able to get the word out for people to sign up for those.
213
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So I think that resulted in about, I want to say, 1,400, electronic notices being sent out prior to the hearing.
21400:31:46.040 --> 00:31:47.659Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay.
215
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Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Can you sort of roughly tell me when, what the time span of this was? Was it in the last couple of months, or was it going back to one year?
21600:31:56.545 --> 00:32:01.125Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So these, these were sent out for hearings, so they're specifically
217
00:32:01.365 --> 00:32:15.145
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): just preceding the hearing, it's usually about 2 weeks to 10 days before the hearing that these notices are sent out and or published. The other notice that neighbors may have received was for community events, and that was listed by the applicant, I believe.
21800:32:15.145 --> 00:32:23.225Speaker 7 (Community Hall): two community events, one in 2024, and then another more recently, just prior
to the Planning Commission meeting.
21900:32:23.650 --> 00:32:25.860Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And that was to individual households.
22000:32:26.650 --> 00:32:28.580Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Yes. Okay, thank you.
221
00:32:29.950 --> 00:32:31.520Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Vice Mayor?
222
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Hi. So, during the housing element process, we rezoned this to
22300:32:39.710 --> 00:32:51.319Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I think it was originally a single-family home, maybe up to 7 units, and now it's 20 units per acre, up to 35 units per acre. So, when the
224
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): planning department decide that this would fit 20 units per acre for
townhomes, and did we exclude the Village Court from the acreage?
22500:33:06.940 --> 00:33:21.519Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So we know it's possible to fit on the number of units that's required by the density, while meeting all of the city standards without any waivers.
226
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Community Hall: or concession.
22700:33:23.900 --> 00:33:39.999Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Well, I think, as Ed said earlier, the 20-unit minimum was actually something that City Council had supported at the end of August 2022. We then, as the housing element was getting refined, went in creating zoning districts.
228
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): and general plan designations to fit that. So the 20 to 35 is the general plan land use designation. The zoning is R3TH, which is townhome. Yeah, but I…
22900:33:50.485 --> 00:34:08.235Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I think when we approve that, I would trust the staff would give… suggest numbers to us that's feasible under the Cupertino's own municipal code, without requiring all the waivers
concession. So are we… are you…
23000:34:09.005 --> 00:34:18.745Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Is the planning department suggesting numbers to the city council that's actually infeasible to meet all of the city municipal code?
23100:34:19.570 --> 00:34:21.750
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I'm really not sure I follow that question.
23200:34:23.070 --> 00:34:29.380Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Because the minimum required, seems to suggest, okay, first question.
233
00:34:29.540 --> 00:34:49.530Speaker 4 (Community Hall): on the project site is 2.56 acres growth. Does that include the average port public street? No, it does not. It does not? Okay, but then it does not, consider the potential setback requirement for 30 foot, right?
234
00:34:51.310 --> 00:34:57.630
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Density doesn't have anything to do with setbacks. It has to do with the number of units that can go on the property.
23500:34:57.635 --> 00:35:02.205Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, I tend to think when we approve a density for a project.
236
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): then we intend that to be a density that's feasible under the current standard. But what we are seeing now, as the staff has presented, you are seeking a waiver of height from 30 to 47 feet, and setback, a lot of,
23700:35:21.775 --> 00:35:23.135Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Waivers, are we?
238
00:35:23.235 --> 00:35:32.824Speaker 4 (Community Hall): necessary. So are we… did we adopt a density for the site that's actually invisible under the current code?
23900:35:33.670 --> 00:35:35.690Speaker 9 (Community Hall): No, the density's being met.
240
00:35:37.300 --> 00:35:43.880Speaker 4 (Community Hall): But… But then this density right now is being met with a lot of waivers.
24100:35:44.680 --> 00:35:48.870Speaker 9 (Community Hall): That is because it's eligible under density bonus law, because it's… I know it's…
242
00:35:48.875 --> 00:36:06.944
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): eligible by the state, but when we adopt a density for a site, shouldn't this, as a city, shouldn't we adopt a density that's feasible under our own municipal code without requiring all the waivers? Have we not done that calculation?
24300:36:07.900 --> 00:36:12.949Speaker 9 (Community Hall): density bonus is up to the applicant when they submit their project, if they
provide… I understand.
24400:36:12.955 --> 00:36:19.495Speaker 4 (Community Hall): and that, but the city determined the density. Why, these waste,
245
00:36:20.335 --> 00:36:25.524Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Decided this site would be suitable for 20 units per acre.
246
00:36:25.675 --> 00:36:28.545
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Rather than 10 munis per acre.
24700:36:29.285 --> 00:36:33.335Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Did we do any calculation to see that the site?
24800:36:33.675 --> 00:36:36.955
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Can accommodate 20 units per acre.
249
00:36:37.865 --> 00:36:40.174Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Versus 10 units per acre.
25000:36:43.675 --> 00:36:47.655Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So we didn't do any calculation, we just lump a number.
251
00:36:48.510 --> 00:36:52.060
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): We rezoned 58 properties as part of the housing element.
25200:36:52.330 --> 00:36:58.360Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Many of them were 20 to 35, many of them were 50 to 65, many of them were 65 to 80.
253
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): We did not have a specific project on file at that time.
25400:37:03.105 --> 00:37:07.605Speaker 4 (Community Hall): But we have a high limit, we have setback, we have all these… per city.
255
00:37:07.605 --> 00:37:12.865
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Correct, and they almost all get waived through density bonus law when we
get an actual project.
25600:37:12.870 --> 00:37:28.869Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I know that state allowed them to waive, but then still, for the city, when we approve a density for our general plan, shouldn't we at least approve the number that's feasible under our
own municipal code? So we didn't actually do that.
257
00:37:29.970 --> 00:37:34.180Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I think we did on this. This is one of the lower density sites in the housing element.
258
00:37:34.330 --> 00:37:36.990Speaker 9 (Community Hall): It's high density relative to the neighborhood.
259
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:45.310
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): But, 70% of the housing element sites are 50 units or more per acre. I know.
This is 20. But then…
26000:37:45.310 --> 00:37:52.060Speaker 4 (Community Hall): How come this… the project cannot feed without all the waivers requested?
261
00:37:52.065 --> 00:37:55.475
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): You don't have any projects that are not requesting waivers these days.
26200:37:56.390 --> 00:37:58.879Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That's the… that's not the question.
26300:37:59.060 --> 00:38:09.449
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The question is, no, the question is, when we approve a density for the CT,
shouldn't we provide a number that's feasible for a project?
26400:38:09.600 --> 00:38:17.189Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We can't just randomly approve 100 units per acre when it just won't ever be feasible, right?
265
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I'm just not sure what you mean by that. Okay, what I mean is…
26600:38:21.110 --> 00:38:30.149Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The city says 20 units per acre. Also, we did not have any minimum unit size requirement, right?
267
00:38:30.490 --> 00:38:33.320
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): We do not have a minimum unit size, and…
26800:38:33.325 --> 00:38:36.034Speaker 4 (Community Hall): 1,000 square foot per unit.
26900:38:36.610 --> 00:38:38.230
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): That would be up to the developer.
270
00:38:38.445 --> 00:38:46.145Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, if it's… it were 1,000 units per acre, 51 units, that would be feasible, likely without any waivers.
271
00:38:46.795 --> 00:38:50.424Speaker 9 (Community Hall): It is up to the developer for what they propose as a project.
272
00:38:50.545 --> 00:38:52.675
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): If we were to have a certain…
27300:38:53.005 --> 00:38:58.644Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Floor size, minimum or maximum, that could also be waived through density bonus.
274
00:38:58.785 --> 00:39:07.554
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So, it's really… the developer is deciding what their project looks like. It needs
to fit the density.
27500:39:07.815 --> 00:39:10.294Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Which this does, it's at the lowest end.
276
00:39:10.815 --> 00:39:15.815
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): But the floor area and the building heights, that's something that's really up to
the applicant.
27700:39:15.925 --> 00:39:16.885Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And that's…
278
00:39:16.885 --> 00:39:21.255
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): You know, they are supposed to meet the standard, they are supposed to fit
the site.
27900:39:22.510 --> 00:39:30.639Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Ideally, they should meet the standards, but through state density bonus law, most projects are having half dozen to a dozen waivers. Mayor?
280
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Speaker 2 (Community Hall): May I just, chime in? Attorney Lee is on Zoom, and she has her hand raised. I
think she might have something relevant to say on this topic.
28100:39:39.570 --> 00:39:41.900Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Okay. Attorney Lee?
282
00:39:42.590 --> 00:39:50.670
Pam Lee, Item #3: Yes, thank you, Vice Mayor and, members of the City Council. I think to answer your
question, when, the…
28300:39:50.920 --> 00:39:52.770
Pam Lee, Item #3: Housing element is…
284
00:39:53.450 --> 00:40:00.170
Pam Lee, Item #3: revised, and the zoning is revised to include higher density. You, in a way, alluded to the fact that
28500:40:00.460 --> 00:40:16.259Pam Lee, Item #3: The city doesn't deal with the actual unit size, and so if you've got a site that has a
certain acreage, and you've got a minimum density and setbacks, there's a lot of different housing types and
housing products that can fit within
28600:40:16.540 --> 00:40:19.390Pam Lee, Item #3: Those parameters without any waivers.
28700:40:19.570 --> 00:40:26.400
Pam Lee, Item #3: And, what you're looking at here, without all the waivers being requested, you, in
essence, would be approving
28800:40:26.510 --> 00:40:28.939Pam Lee, Item #3: You know, maybe 2 boxes.
28900:40:29.240 --> 00:40:34.319
Pam Lee, Item #3: Housing that fits into, you know, a three-story or a two-story box, but with
290
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:52.380Pam Lee, Item #3: smaller unit sizes, and with the minimum number of parking, and with all that. This project is configured in such a way that it exceeds certain minimum requirements, but also waives certain requirements. But in terms of the housing element and selecting a site.
291
00:40:52.510 --> 00:41:09.080
Pam Lee, Item #3: The planning department, as well as the consultants that are involved, do look at the
site, the size, the density, and without going into details, they select a minimum density that would be able
to fit
29200:41:09.290 --> 00:41:17.340Pam Lee, Item #3: But those would accommodate different types of housing products. And so, because of this product, they're requesting certain waivers.
293
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Final question, so under density bonus law, the applicant can request an unlimited number of waivers, right?
29400:41:34.160 --> 00:41:35.280Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That is correct.
295
00:41:35.570 --> 00:41:45.219
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, even though there is a product type, that could fit, meet all the CTE municipal Code requirements. They could change…
296
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Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Choose not to do any of it.
29700:41:48.210 --> 00:41:50.549Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And under the density bonus law.
29800:41:52.110 --> 00:41:59.889
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): That is correct. We have not had a multi-family project not use density bonus
and waivers for some time.
29900:42:00.180 --> 00:42:00.670Speaker 9 (Community Hall): So…
30000:42:00.675 --> 00:42:04.184
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Even if it was fire safety, waivers.
301
00:42:05.520 --> 00:42:09.920Speaker 9 (Community Hall): there are no fire safety waivers. The waivers are from, generally, the
30200:42:10.270 --> 00:42:14.600Speaker 9 (Community Hall): City zoning and development standards, or possibly general plan.
303
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Speaker 9 (Community Hall): But not, not fire safety waivers, they're density bonus. Okay, thank you.
30400:42:22.330 --> 00:42:26.440Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you, I'm going to try to share screen.
305
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Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Give me a note…
30600:42:43.570 --> 00:42:52.690Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so this is part of my, written communications, which I've sent in for the day. So, looking at the,
307
00:42:52.770 --> 00:43:17.459
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Environmental site assessments. So I see that the property had an EDR
historical auto shop, from 2002 to 2008 listed. It had 4 underground storage tanks. Two appear to have been removed within the past year or so. There were multiple hazmat drums on the site, a 300-gallon AST for diesel, and there's two landfill pits with unknown contents.
308
00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:34.680Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And, did the owner, with regards to Cupertino Municipal Code Chapter 9, regarding the storage of hazardous materials, did the owner have a permit for the hazardous materials being stored on the site according to Chapter 9 of the Cupertino Municipal Code? Does anyone know?
309
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Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Right. I think that some of these were addressed in the, desk items, so I'll just repeat kind of what was provided through that, if that's okay? Thank you. For the most part, for the questions you have laid out here regarding Chapter 9,
31000:43:50.930 --> 00:44:04.190Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Those specific uses that were previously on the site, we don't have any record
of them having a permit. That might be because they're needed too far back, or it might be because they
didn't get any, but regardless, they're not currently operating on the site.
31100:44:04.350 --> 00:44:18.169Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so the answer to, like, all of these questions regarding Chapter 9, did the owners have an approved HMM&P? Did they have the inventory statement? Did they submit a closure plan? All of that would be, no.
312
00:44:18.175 --> 00:44:33.335
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): assumed no… the closure plan, I will note, however, that's associated with the
closure of those underground storage tanks, and for that, we did receive from the applicant a closure permit, and they did go through the process for closing out those underground storage tanks that you noted to be removed.
31300:44:33.340 --> 00:44:46.909
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): but not through the CUPA, not through, Santa Clara County Department of
Environmental Health, which gets into Chapter 17. So, how are the on-site landfills, typically closed?
31400:44:47.160 --> 00:45:05.460Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Because there's… there appear to be two on-site pits, that, have a depth over 5 feet, and according to our municipal code, that would have needed a grading permit, so I don't believe they had a grading permit for it. Does the city allow a homeowner to create an on-site landfill?
315
00:45:05.870 --> 00:45:09.449
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): typically no. So again, these might be predating our municipal code
requirements.
31600:45:09.455 --> 00:45:26.304Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so, from the environmental site assessments, they were looking for the underground storage tanks, and, let me… I can get to the, scams that they had. So they were looking for the underground storage tanks, and they found,
317
00:45:26.305 --> 00:45:44.744Speaker 1 (Community Hall): some, debris pits, and so here's the first one, showing debris from about 2 feet to 6 feet deep, so that went over the 5-foot standard for upgrading, needing a permit, and then it's… it's
some kind of debris. We don't know what's there. And then the next pit is,
318
00:45:44.855 --> 00:45:58.274
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): 8 feet in depth, and these are about 10 to 12 feet wide, so this is a second pit, and we don't really know what's in it, which is of concern. Okay.
31900:45:58.495 --> 00:46:02.104Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, I'll continue back to those questions.
320
00:46:03.485 --> 00:46:21.444
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, with regards to how is a landfill typically closed, would they go to Santa Clara County DEH for regulatory oversight to have, the disposition of the materials inside of these pits determined, and then, have a closure notice at some point? I'll note that I…
32100:46:21.450 --> 00:46:35.579
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I don't know if I'm familiar with the landfill requirements. However, again, in
this case, we're not contemplating this as a landfill. It may have been something where debris was, you
know, stored underground and or, you know, kind of waste was settled there, but that being said…
32200:46:36.255 --> 00:46:41.355Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I apologize, I believe the fire department may have a comment that could clarify this real quick.
323
00:46:44.670 --> 00:47:01.400
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Hi, thank you, Brad Fox, Santa Clara County Fire Department. So we did issue
a closure permit for the two tanks that were found on site, and we inspected the removal of those tanks, and that permit was filed on
32400:47:01.660 --> 00:47:12.969Speaker 9 (Community Hall): June 23rd of 2025, and then our process is once we, close out that closure permit.
325
00:47:13.100 --> 00:47:30.429Speaker 9 (Community Hall): We forward our findings on to County Department of Environmental Health, and along with that is a report of the soil samples that are taken around the tanks, and then they make the determination if they are going to issue any further action
32600:47:30.430 --> 00:47:41.049
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): environmentally based on those soil reports that are, part of the closure
permit. So, the action that they found was,
32700:47:41.070 --> 00:47:45.030Speaker 9 (Community Hall): No further action was required, and they closed their process.
32800:47:45.035 --> 00:47:48.494
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, but also without having a full,
32900:47:48.495 --> 00:48:09.885Speaker 1 (Community Hall): site inspection showing the hazardous materials, the multiple waste drums, the above-ground storage tank with 300 gallons of diesel, and the two waste pits, and with the knowledge that this is a project that's trying to get approval for a multifamily residential, and they are the Certified Unified
Program Agency. Thank you.
33000:48:09.955 --> 00:48:21.205Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, under Cupertino's Municipal Code Chapter 17 for hazardous materials, underground soils, storage tanks, and soil disturbing activities.
33100:48:21.315 --> 00:48:44.115
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Again, I think we already know the answer, did the owners follow the
hazardous materials permit requirement to contact either, and this is according to our municipal code, to
contact EPA, DTSC, the Regional Water Quality Control Board, or the CUPA, which is Santa Clara County
DEH, and enter into an oversight agreement. And in our municipal code, it says that this needs to be done before.
33200:48:44.115 --> 00:48:51.404Speaker 1 (Community Hall): prior to approval of the project, so that would have needed to be done before
this point, and we already know the answer.
333
00:48:51.685 --> 00:49:15.805Speaker 1 (Community Hall): to that. Now, with regards to the, the two landfill sites, so now you've got mixed contents in them, we don't know what it is, and we have a geotechnical report which didn't address what's in these two pits. So, I don't see, and, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but how can they make a determination for the MAP foundations,
334
00:49:15.895 --> 00:49:35.305
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): on the site when they haven't done a study of these particular locations, and to
my knowledge, we don't know exactly where these pits are. And they disturb soil in order to get the storage tanks out of the ground, so we don't know what the compaction was for those particular areas.
33500:49:35.305 --> 00:49:50.914Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I'll give a high-level response to that, and then we may need to call upon our environmental specialists for additional information, but my understanding is that the geotechnical report will
be updated with additional borings once we get to our construction drawings and our structural
33600:49:50.945 --> 00:50:05.814Speaker 7 (Community Hall): kind of review. And so at that time, they'll take samples of those soils, and they'll test for any sort of contaminants, and then we also have a condition on the project, in addition to the requirement for the geotechnical structural follow-up.
337
00:50:05.875 --> 00:50:08.815
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): to, provide an S&P if any
33800:50:08.915 --> 00:50:16.944
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): contaminated soils are encountered during that review. And so again, that's a
very high level. If you want more detail, I'd be happy to call up our vet.
33900:50:16.945 --> 00:50:41.854Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you. And one of the environmental site assessments, suggested
that we have an SMP for the site, and I would have preferred to see that right today, along with the
regulatory oversight already be… have been requested, prior to the owners, disturbing, doing soil disturbing
activities, which, according to Chapter 17, is something they should have done. So what you have up on the
screen here right now is the preliminary fire
34000:50:41.855 --> 00:50:50.184Speaker 1 (Community Hall): access plan. My concern here, First, Is this, layout,
341
00:50:50.225 --> 00:51:08.334
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): with the bioretention areas at the entrance. So, what you're seeing here is a
fire truck making a very wide turn into the site, and it's coming from the south to the north. I don't see a sweep study, showing it
34200:51:08.335 --> 00:51:19.684Speaker 1 (Community Hall): being able to come from the north, which is actually the shorter distance to get
into the neighborhood, and being able to make that turn. Do you have a, auto turn?
343
00:51:19.795 --> 00:51:30.544Speaker 1 (Community Hall): showing that direction being accessed? Or is this a situation where the fire truck needs to go all around the neighborhood and then come up and swing to make a left-hand turn in?
34400:51:36.160 --> 00:51:40.400
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Yeah, I think this would be something if, since we have fire staff here, that
they could
34500:51:41.250 --> 00:51:45.959Speaker 9 (Community Hall): be the best to answer that question in terms of the truck operation. Okay, thank you.
346
00:51:47.590 --> 00:52:08.839
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And while we're on this page, Evilich Court was, dedicated to the city, back in
1969, when they were looking at having an R1, 7,500 square foot lot, subdivision. So it was a… it was a
regular cul-de-sac, and it was going to have, look like single-family homes, a long time ago.
34700:52:09.310 --> 00:52:10.080Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Hello?
348
00:52:10.820 --> 00:52:11.659
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Good evening, Mayor.
34900:52:11.770 --> 00:52:16.140
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Council, thanks for the opportunity to clear this up. This actually is,
350
00:52:17.310 --> 00:52:20.470
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): It has an approach from one angle, but the.
35100:52:20.470 --> 00:52:31.170Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The truck will make the angle. It'll cross the lane and come in. That's the way they will approach. So, when it comes down to it, this one actually is a tractor drawn aerial, which is that
two-driver version of the…
352
00:52:31.260 --> 00:52:48.769Speaker 10 (Community Hall): fire that is the largest apparatus that we have. It has an extraordinary capabilities and turn radius, because it has all-wheel steering. So with that, this track will show that they can make that turn, they can make it from both directions, and they will, and I'm sure that you've seen
353
00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:55.039
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Fire engines, fire trucks, apparatus of all types, go to where they need to in
order to make the turn.
35400:52:55.345 --> 00:53:19.185Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so they'll basically cross the center line in order to do that. Okay, so what I'm trying to do is make the argument that this choke point is unnecessary to have the bioretention at that particular location, and that you'd actually have an easier turn in if they moved the bioretention to the parkway strips and reversed the sidewalk and parkway like we have at the Beta Brothers site. Also, just of
note, the
35500:53:19.185 --> 00:53:31.074Speaker 1 (Community Hall): fire truck, what they're showing in the notes is that you wouldn't be able to make this cul-de-sac turn. You would need… so they're building, a roll-up curb.
35600:53:31.075 --> 00:53:37.345
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): there. So in order to make this turn, they're stating that they're going to have a
special,
35700:53:37.365 --> 00:53:45.405Speaker 1 (Community Hall): underlayment for the sidewalk, which can support the weight of a fire truck, and that, pedestrians better…
358
00:53:45.405 --> 00:54:03.895
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): get out of the way, because the fire truck is going to be going up on this curb.
And it's… it is not following, the typical, what I'm seeing as 96, foot diameter. It, this, I believe you're down
to 30, for your radius here, instead of the 48.
35900:54:04.775 --> 00:54:28.554Speaker 1 (Community Hall): and curiously, this, to me, we are creating a problem, where instead of having a straight street, and then a turning radius, a curved radius here, we have an area where people will
probably, because it's a little extra wide, be inclined to illegally park on the red curb, and use the roll-up
curb, as well. And I don't know if that is by design, but, this, I…
36000:54:28.555 --> 00:54:34.415Speaker 1 (Community Hall): You know, my frank opinion of this is that this is not good design at all.
361
00:54:34.545 --> 00:54:41.975
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Same with the bioretention, so I just want to get that out there. And I understand you can…
36200:54:42.285 --> 00:55:00.195Speaker 1 (Community Hall): you can look at it another way that you've got two different ways to turn around because of this peculiar hammerhead, but, I see it as a way that could actually cause a pinch point
here, and for individuals that are coming out,
36300:55:00.625 --> 00:55:17.635Speaker 1 (Community Hall): from… from either… either way, that it's, not… not particularly ideal to have this… this point here. If you're coming down and you're actually following the curve of the street, you might not see this point here, and you're gonna, you know, hit your… hit your wheel on it, and you're gonna have to, pay attention to it.
364
00:55:17.845 --> 00:55:31.105
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So I do find this to be a pretty odd design. Okay, so we've taken a look here,
thank you. Lastly, because I have a lot of questions here, when I went through the, EDR,
36500:55:31.695 --> 00:55:48.104Speaker 1 (Community Hall): data. I'm seeing this Vinculum International Auto Transmission Repair Shop at this location, from 2002 to 2008. And I think that, to me, when I looked at all the hazardous materials
storage containers, this sort of
366
00:55:48.275 --> 00:55:57.925Speaker 1 (Community Hall): looks like that's in keeping with it, but I'm wondering, because I'm not… I didn't see this in our, peer review about this,
36700:55:57.975 --> 00:56:12.715
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): business at this location. So, an auto transmission repair shop could have,
things like PCE, and other chemicals, and we saw that from Sears Auto, used PCE, it's a degreaser, very
common.
36800:56:12.885 --> 00:56:18.005Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, do you know anything about this Vinculum International, business?
369
00:56:20.040 --> 00:56:32.589
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I could say, no, we do not, and since this was an R1 zoning district, you
wouldn't be able to really operate an auto repair out of an R1 zone, at least legally. So,
37000:56:32.790 --> 00:56:44.589Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Since it was 2002 to 2008, I'm not gonna guess what was going on, but there's
no record of that business actually operating on this site with the city.
37100:56:44.880 --> 00:56:48.490Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I don't know if it could have been something like a mailing address, I…
372
00:56:49.150 --> 00:56:53.419Speaker 9 (Community Hall): All I would be doing is speculating, but there's no record of that business.
37300:56:53.425 --> 00:56:59.455Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Oh, thank you. Okay, so do you know why they had all of those… there were drums,
374
00:56:59.455 --> 00:57:18.594Speaker 1 (Community Hall): that were there recently, that were removed within the past couple years. Drums full of hazardous materials on the site, several of them. I can… I can dig up the photos, like, see the… they're within the environmental site assessment. I'm… I'm assuming it has something to do with this, auto transmission repair.
375
00:57:18.925 --> 00:57:25.194
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): My understanding is the majority of the tanks were related to previous
agricultural uses, but I would actually defer over to the
37600:57:26.105 --> 00:57:34.665Speaker 7 (Community Hall): people who prepared the report, which is Rue Consulting, for their kind of overview of what each of these really represents. Yeah.
377
00:57:34.665 --> 00:57:51.525
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Because that's a lot. So there was, at the… at the Finch property, there was
actually one underground storage tank. Not uncommon to have one for your farm equipment. This site had four underground storage tanks, and then one above-ground diesel tank, plus all of the other barrels, so I…
37800:57:52.195 --> 00:58:02.354Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I feel as though there's more to this story, that I would, I would like to, to
know about. And with regards to the, SMP would,
379
00:58:02.705 --> 00:58:10.014Speaker 1 (Community Hall): would, at some point, this site go under regulatory oversight, from Santa Clara County DEH?
38000:58:10.225 --> 00:58:10.745
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Potentially.
381
00:58:10.745 --> 00:58:29.704Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Actually, it could. Based on the condition we have, an S&P would be required, again, if they encountered any contaminated soils. That would be how to treat them and what would need to
happen from there. That would follow the standard process for regulatory oversight, which is also outlined in
Title 17 for if you do encounter anything. It could go to DH, it could go to a different oversight agency.
38200:58:29.705 --> 00:58:34.595Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Just depends, and so I think for the most part, you usually do see them go to
DH, but that would be
38300:58:34.595 --> 00:58:35.484Speaker 7 (Community Hall): When that would happen.
38400:58:35.485 --> 00:58:52.594Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, and thank you, and for the, for the public's, information, and correct me
if I'm wrong on this, but the environmental site assessments that, we have in the packet, there's multiple
ones of them, those were, the owners of the property,
38500:58:52.595 --> 00:59:05.864Speaker 1 (Community Hall): hired these consultants to provide the ESAs, and you have a Phase 1, and you have a couple of Phase 2s, a couple of Phase 1s, and then you had a peer review from a consultant that the city hired.
386
00:59:05.865 --> 00:59:13.944
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): But that peer review, did not identify the pits on the site, and, and some, some
other issues.
38700:59:14.075 --> 00:59:18.744Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, with that, I just want to make sure that… do I have that straight?
388
00:59:18.885 --> 00:59:37.684
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): the consultant was hired by the owner, and then we peer-reviewed what the
owner provided for information. It wasn't done to, the standards of the Santa Clara County Department of Environmental Health, doing their peer review, like you see for United Furniture and whatnot.
38900:59:38.710 --> 00:59:51.979Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Right, that sort of peer review from DEH would be required if it got referred
over to them, again, if oversight was necessary. But for this, you're correct that we did have the applicant
submit a report, and that it was peer-reviewed by our third-party consultants.
39000:59:51.985 --> 01:00:05.735Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so, but our Chapter 17, states that they would go to Santa Clara County DEH, or the Regional Water Quality Control Board, or DTSC for that oversight, and not the process that was done here.
391
01:00:06.585 --> 01:00:11.345
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, lastly, with regards to the vesting tentative map.
39201:00:11.345 --> 01:00:36.254
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): The ownership on the vesting tentative map, is… you provided some
supplemental materials, which shows… this is a very simplified, ownership, listing, and when we look at the supplemental materials, they show a more complete version. Also on the vesting tentative map, thank you for providing the title. It was not provided to the
393
01:00:36.255 --> 01:00:40.185
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Planning Commission, And the…
39401:00:40.185 --> 01:00:59.895Speaker 1 (Community Hall): vesting tentative map does not show the actual parcel lines on the map, so it's, we are unable to determine who owns which parcel, currently, and I understand there's multiple layers of this ownership, and I… I went through it and the, the legal descriptions, to… to verify that,
395
01:00:59.895 --> 01:01:14.204
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): information. So the lot lines, the existing lot lines, should be here. We have the final lot lines, so I want to point out that, what I believe is a deficiency of the domestic tentative map. And with that, I'm going to stop sharing, and…
39601:01:14.735 --> 01:01:21.245Speaker 1 (Community Hall): If there's further clarifying questions from the Council, we can take those now,
or listen to the,
39701:01:21.405 --> 01:01:23.664Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Applicants. Mayor, I do. Yes.
39801:01:23.670 --> 01:01:30.710Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Councilmember Braun. I do. I'll make a couple, questions, then, of course,
since we have Chief Estrada here, I'd love to take advantage of his time here.
39901:01:30.710 --> 01:01:47.900Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I wanted to correct a small but important item. I think the Planning Commission did not provide an unanimous vote. It was 3-2 as listed, but it was stated as unanimous. Also wanted to say, at the July 2nd meeting, when we could talk about actual upzoning, July 2nd, 2026, in the Planning Commission meeting, it was mostly dominated on
400
01:01:47.900 --> 01:02:05.160
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): all questions, except for anything around up zoning. We talked about FAR, floor
limits, reduced parking, I saw that there. Also, a question on the 2022 housing element discussions. This is to you, Luke. Was the zoning discussion at a site level or a unit count discussion at a site level?
40101:02:07.490 --> 01:02:19.029Speaker 9 (Community Hall): In 2022, what we were talking about was minimum densities for each site. So
it wasn't necessarily even zoning, it was just, what do we think is the minimum, because what HCD was
looking for was
40201:02:19.740 --> 01:02:24.720Speaker 9 (Community Hall): how do we know it's going to get built? At a base or higher? So we just said
minimum.
403
01:02:24.725 --> 01:02:32.745
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think I was… I think I was there with you. And then, of all the noticing provided, how many of these notices occurred after the property was upzoned to this level?
40401:02:34.335 --> 01:02:39.515Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We did a lot of noticing, but then when it… after the upzoning, what was the
number of notices afterwards?
405
01:02:40.600 --> 01:02:49.000Speaker 9 (Community Hall): the noticing afterwards would all be tied to when this project was submitted. So, when there were the community meetings that Emmy had mentioned, I think there were two.
40601:02:49.330 --> 01:02:53.369
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): There's noticing before the Planning Commission meeting, noticing before this
meeting.
40701:02:53.500 --> 01:03:00.790Speaker 9 (Community Hall): You know, none of the individual sites had individual mail noticing till a project gets filed. Okay.
408
01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:02.049
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And then,
40901:03:02.300 --> 01:03:17.999Speaker 5 (Community Hall): this is related to what the Mayor was talking about. What is in our checklist at a planning and department level for any standard operating procedures for environmental reviews in cases such as this? And the order of operations, should have these items been addressed first before issuing a permit?
410
01:03:21.690 --> 01:03:29.420
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, I just want to clarify the question really quickly before I respond. So, you're asking with our checklist for the requirements for an application.
41101:03:29.980 --> 01:03:32.519Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Right, on the environmental side, we have a checklist, correct?
412
01:03:32.630 --> 01:03:33.189
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We, we…
41301:03:33.195 --> 01:03:36.314Speaker 7 (Community Hall): We do have an application checklist for materials that need to be provided.
414
01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:42.210
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, and the mayor's questions, when she was asking, do we look through
certain sets of items, was that part of the checklist?
41501:03:42.210 --> 01:04:00.950Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Right, we do typically require an ESA, which is what the mayor is referring to.
However, we don't require necessarily that all of the elements of that environmental site assessment or its
further investigations, including a Phase 2, be addressed prior to entitlement. Those are oftentimes
conditioned, and they will move forward to the building permit process.
41601:04:00.955 --> 01:04:05.175Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, so we could potentially miss some stuff, because it's not necessarily complete, is that correct?
417
01:04:05.490 --> 01:04:07.689
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I don't know if it's missed or if it's just deferred.
41801:04:07.695 --> 01:04:11.265Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay. Can we bring Chief Estrada here, since we have you here?
419
01:04:15.375 --> 01:04:17.604
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Amir, I might need 3 more minutes, that's okay.
42001:04:32.980 --> 01:04:41.619Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I'm gonna have Chief Fox join me, just in case. I want to make sure that if there's any question or any, opportunity to provide more insight, I would like to make sure that happens.
421
01:04:41.640 --> 01:04:42.210
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Yeah, I know.
42201:04:42.215 --> 01:04:59.924Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Thank you for being here. As you know, the community is really worried about fire and fire safety, and so, can you help me walk us through the process? When you received the developer's request to reduce the setback from 30 feet to 10 feet along property lines, what factors did you personally weigh in deciding that the proposal mitigations were sufficient?
423
01:05:00.175 --> 01:05:07.545
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Specifically, did all your evaluation consider the fire safety impact on the existing homes along the southern and northern boundaries?
42401:05:07.945 --> 01:05:13.144Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah, the Barry, the, Corporate Decker, the Rodriguez, and the Fantozzi
properties. So I'm gonna go ahead.
425
01:05:13.145 --> 01:05:17.405Speaker 10 (Community Hall): and start with no. The thing is, is that all of those things, specifically, are not
426
01:05:17.945 --> 01:05:26.394Speaker 10 (Community Hall): identified as components, and what we did is we essentially received the request to come in, and when it comes in, it is, it presents.
427
01:05:26.415 --> 01:05:38.525
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the, the conditions. It presents the actual code that needs to be, reviewed,
and then we have, we have, relied on the definitions and the standards that are set out in Section
42801:05:38.705 --> 01:05:42.674Speaker 10 (Community Hall): 1270.1, or 01 of the,
429
01:05:42.975 --> 01:05:48.694
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The fire safe regulations. So, the… also the, Section 127601.
43001:05:48.805 --> 01:06:04.884Speaker 10 (Community Hall): and fire safe regulations are referred to. And we rely on the relevant codes that we have, so that's the fire code, building code, it could be residential code 4290, 4291, so anything that's appropriate that's been accepted and adopted through Cupertino.
431
01:06:04.945 --> 01:06:10.475
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And then any other, documents that would be relevant to inform us when it is,
43201:06:10.625 --> 01:06:19.864Speaker 10 (Community Hall): a, there's an area of concern, or there's an area of focus that we wanted to, go ahead and apply. So, with that, the,
433
01:06:20.545 --> 01:06:28.825Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The cumulative technical and operational qualifications of our staff are those resources that we use. The overall process, essentially, is that
43401:06:29.395 --> 01:06:32.635Speaker 10 (Community Hall): We first take a look to make sure that,
435
01:06:32.725 --> 01:06:38.844Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The final review of the same practical effect, that is, is done by
43601:06:38.915 --> 01:06:53.305Speaker 10 (Community Hall): myself and Chief Fox. So those are… that's… I want to make sure that you know that it is not just reviewed by one person in our office. I have heard that. The… the very first thing
that we do is we verify the code that is in question.
43701:06:53.605 --> 01:07:10.765Speaker 10 (Community Hall): We understand, we make sure that we understand it, we verify the intent of the code. We do this by looking at the code commentary, and in addition to the code, so that we can
understand what is it you're supposed to be able to achieve. Then we look for alignment of deficiencies, so if
we have a setback, that's a radiant issue, for the most part.
43801:07:11.025 --> 01:07:26.564Speaker 10 (Community Hall): We look at the mitigations and the benefit of those as we evaluate them, and
we look for different types of things. So I'll give you the example of access and water. If we have an access
problem or a water problem, we look for an access or a water solution, so they have to be in alignment.
Then next,
43901:07:26.665 --> 01:07:45.095Speaker 10 (Community Hall): we're looking at any other or any degree of mitigation impact that's evaluated. So, what that means is, we want to make sure that is an effective solution. So, the weight that it does carry and how much or how many different variables or components come together in order to provide
a,
440
01:07:45.095 --> 01:07:48.284Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So you're focused on the safety of the new building. Right. It is.
44101:07:48.290 --> 01:07:53.220Speaker 10 (Community Hall): 4290 is specifically intended to take a look at
442
01:07:53.400 --> 01:08:06.120
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): in the setback for that building and that parcel. We will go through the evaluation for that level. Off-site improvements or off-site focus is one of those things that is outside of scope for that evaluation.
44301:08:06.125 --> 01:08:14.254
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So is that, or just to make… so I'm clear, because I… there's a really good in-
depth detail, but is that a sign-off or no sign-off on 4291?
44401:08:14.945 --> 01:08:20.775Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Please… Are you… are you signing off on 4291 or not? So… You're… I'm sure the…
445
01:08:21.540 --> 01:08:30.120
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): No, 4290, I understand, I'm just… the sign-off, you mean for our project on
an exception request? Yes. Yeah, we talk about it, we basically come up with an agreement.
44601:08:30.125 --> 01:08:33.284Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But did you sign off on 4291, or not, so…
447
01:08:33.290 --> 01:08:33.880
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I've worked with.
44801:08:33.885 --> 01:08:36.305Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Fox, and he was the, actually, signature on the final.
44901:08:37.365 --> 01:08:42.535Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And we did speak about it, we have our conditions that we talk about, and then essentially when it comes down to it.
450
01:08:42.805 --> 01:08:45.385
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The authority to sign was, delegated.
45101:08:45.385 --> 01:08:49.804Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Chief Fox. Okay, so you signed off on 4290, and did you sign off on 1491?
452
01:08:54.080 --> 01:08:56.889
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Thank you, Councilmember. To be clear.
45301:08:57.060 --> 01:09:09.469Speaker 9 (Community Hall): 429… 4290 is the state minimum fire safe regs. Correct. And 4291 relates to the defensible space requirements.
454
01:09:09.475 --> 01:09:12.594
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I didn't see a sign-off on 1491, that's why I wanted to be clear.
45501:09:14.100 --> 01:09:29.460Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Correct. The, setback requirement is outlined in 4290. So the exception request application was… was for 4290, not 4291.
456
01:09:30.450 --> 01:09:40.130
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, thanks. Nope, makes clear. Thank you so much that you've clarified that
for me. My second question is really, if you look at the NISC technical note, 2205, it identifies 30 feet.
45701:09:40.130 --> 01:09:51.139Speaker 5 (Community Hall): as the critical threshold for preventing structure-to-structure ignition, this being our National Institute of Scientific Standards for Technology. At 10 feet, radiant heat exposure increases roughly 9-fold.
458
01:09:51.140 --> 01:10:02.949Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The AMMR requires 1-hour fire-rated walls in the new buildings, but the existing neighborhood homes have standard wood-frame construction with no enhanced fire rating. When you determine that the mitigation package was adequate.
45901:10:03.160 --> 01:10:13.569
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): What analysis did you rely on to conclude that the increased radiant heat
reaching those unprotected neighborhood structures was acceptable? Was there quantitative modeling, or
was this based on your professional judgment?
46001:10:15.250 --> 01:10:27.060
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, thank you for the question. The, it's a combination of, basically those
requirements that are set forth. So, we get the standard for the, the evaluation of 4290 within 4290.
46101:10:27.390 --> 01:10:35.980Speaker 10 (Community Hall): We've been dealing with this for several years in the SRA, so we have more
experience with it than we are experiencing here in Cupertino.
46201:10:36.010 --> 01:10:53.660Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And we've been also, working through to make sure that, for the compliance. So, specific to this project, what we had is we had, the mitigations that were provided as, those things that would increase the survivability of a home or a structure.
463
01:10:54.400 --> 01:11:02.480
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the two components, and I will go back to… The staff report, or the… The
supplement.
46401:11:05.400 --> 01:11:18.060Speaker 10 (Community Hall): In our supplemental, and I'm referring back to this because there were quite a few questions, a lot of them bridged a lot of areas, and some of them basically came back and pinwheeled on a few core items. So with that,
465
01:11:21.410 --> 01:11:23.890
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): When we looked at the,
46601:11:24.170 --> 01:11:32.490Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The effects of these regulations and the… towards the defensible space component, specifically with the, structure-to-structure ignition.
467
01:11:32.740 --> 01:11:38.700
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the, the measures that were proposed included, or that we could re…
46801:11:38.810 --> 01:11:57.490Speaker 10 (Community Hall): review within 4290, and this is establishing the framework of how we should evaluate this. Non-combustible materials extending 5 feet horizontally around the building, wildfire home
hardening protective measures, including, but not limited to Class A roof, non-combustible exterior buildings,
materials, protected double-baked tempered glass.
46901:11:57.650 --> 01:12:06.550Speaker 10 (Community Hall): exterior sprinkler system, and fire-resistant rated exterior elements within 30 feet. When you take a look at the different
470
01:12:07.480 --> 01:12:13.260
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the different areas of potential mitigation within, 127601.
47101:12:13.300 --> 01:12:20.370Speaker 10 (Community Hall): in the fire safety regulations, you see this guidance on the exceptions request
related to the 30-foot setback.
472
01:12:20.370 --> 01:12:43.209
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The reduction in the minimum setback shall be based upon practical reasons, which may include, but are not limited to, parcel dimension or size, topographic limitations, development density requirements, or other development patterns that promote low carbon emission outcomes, sensitive habitats, or other site constraints, and they shall provide for an alternate method to reduce structure-to-structure ignition by incorporating
473
01:12:43.210 --> 01:12:48.040
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Features such as, but not limited to, non-combustible blocker fences.
47401:12:48.210 --> 01:13:01.529Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Non-combustible materials extending 5 feet horizontally from the furthest extent of the building, or hardscape landscaping, or the reduction of exposed windows on the side of the structure with less than 30 foot.
475
01:13:01.690 --> 01:13:17.209
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): clearance, or, and the most, or the most protective requirements in California Building Code, California Code Regulations, Title 24, Chapter 7A, required by local jurisdiction. So any one of those things could actually provide a mitigation that would be.
47601:13:17.215 --> 01:13:33.525Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That's a great point, right? And those homes are very well mitigated, in your
opinion. So we've got a 5-foot zone assessment. So the state standard requires a 30-foot defensible space
buffer, as you mentioned. The developer proposed 5 feet of non-combustible landscaping as a substitute, 1
sixth of the required distance.
47701:13:33.525 --> 01:13:53.005Speaker 5 (Community Hall): your department has accepted this, and so this is because… is it a technical basis for your conclusion that the 5 feet provides fire crews with the equivalent tactical safety to the 30-foot buffer the state requires? And where does the remaining 25 feet of required defensible space end up, or
does the fire risk management shift onto the neighboring properties?
478
01:13:53.065 --> 01:13:54.575Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So.
47901:13:55.330 --> 01:14:11.389Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The question as posed is a very difficult one to answer with regard to why
and how the evaluation is done. This is an evaluation of setback and radiant heat and the function there, so
we know that there's a significant loss, or a significant increase in the heat and salt that's going to be
experienced by a structure in this type.
48001:14:11.390 --> 01:14:17.990Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, with that, it is the structure that we are looking at that is proposed as the new structure. It does not take into account
481
01:14:17.990 --> 01:14:31.470
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the, homes around, and it is because we actually do have not the 10-foot setback, we have the additional space that's provided by the setback that's required on the additional property. So, 10 feet is actually one of those
482
01:14:31.470 --> 01:14:43.539
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Very important zones. And when it comes to the components that were listed,
we have the Chapter 7A and the 5-foot combustible zones. This provides hardening and defensible space.
48301:14:43.550 --> 01:14:59.149Speaker 10 (Community Hall): We have two additional elements that harden the exterior shell of the structure to resist the insult from reading heat, the exterior sprinklers, and the one-hour reading for the exterior walls. So what this is going to do is this is going to assist in the primary component of making sure
that structure is not
48401:14:59.180 --> 01:15:00.450Speaker 10 (Community Hall): being,
48501:15:00.830 --> 01:15:09.279Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Infiltrated by either embers that are being blown at high velocity winds, or
some kind of radiant heat or direct flame impingement.
48601:15:09.380 --> 01:15:25.650Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The, combination of these characteristics of the structure, hardening, and defensible space work as a system, they're designed to do that, and they are recognized by, IBHS, CAL FIRE, and Forensic Studies, where they look at events like Palisades.
487
01:15:25.650 --> 01:15:34.689
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): or… and Eden. They did find that for those components that were combined,
they did have an increased survivability, rate.
48801:15:34.690 --> 01:15:49.419Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And those things are taken into consideration. The cumulative effect of these multiple mitigation strategies is expected to provide the same practical effect in these scenarios, and mitigate against the radiant heat that they may encounter from the structure and structure ignition.
489
01:15:49.420 --> 01:16:02.280
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): No further or other mitigations or changes to this project have ever been evaluated, and they were not part of this evaluation. And I will add that from a structural component, or an operational component.
49001:16:02.890 --> 01:16:08.720
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): These buildings actually have… they're large buildings. They have, a potential,
they have…
49101:16:09.260 --> 01:16:14.450Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Those things that have been built in, we try to make sure that any building
that's constructed.
492
01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:25.619
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the goal is to keep a fire that starts in an area, keep it in that area… Contained, right, yes. Keep it in the room of origin, the shell of origin, and then for Wooey, to make sure it doesn't get out into the environment.
49301:16:26.520 --> 01:16:30.100
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the… From the outside in is also a component.
494
01:16:30.310 --> 01:16:48.430Speaker 10 (Community Hall): These hardening and defensible space, combined efforts will provide greater safety for this particular structure, and including the, I'd say the force multiplier of the sprinkler system. So the sprinklers that are on the exteriors are going to do one additional thing that's an active
495
01:16:48.440 --> 01:16:55.190
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And it's an active component of suppression that is not actually present in
49601:16:55.250 --> 01:17:00.759Speaker 10 (Community Hall): most projects. So, it is one of those things that actually really does raise the bar for this particular project.
497
01:17:00.765 --> 01:17:11.634
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Let's go to water, and I think this is great. I think you've done a good job
explaining this, and I think you also showed this during the hardening presentation that you presented,
some time back. In the Code of Rec… California Regulations 14,
49801:17:11.635 --> 01:17:21.245Speaker 5 (Community Hall): CCR section 127001, defines the same practical effect as a package of five mandatory components. Emergency access, safe civilian evacuations, signage.
499
01:17:21.245 --> 01:17:32.745
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): available and accessible water and fuel modification. Your memo went deep into three of these, but for water, your memo defers hydrant design specifications to the building permit phase, if I remember.
50001:17:32.785 --> 01:17:36.854Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And for signage, the memo is silent. Can you explain the reasoning behind
501
01:17:37.495 --> 01:17:45.195Speaker 5 (Community Hall): your decision to prove the same practical effect SPE finding without addressing two of the five other mandatory categories? Was that just…
50201:17:45.865 --> 01:17:51.575Speaker 5 (Community Hall): An oversight, something you're gonna get to later, or you can determine that
those categories don't require analysis for that particular support.
50301:17:51.905 --> 01:17:52.515Speaker 5 (Community Hall): It wasn't.
504
01:17:52.515 --> 01:18:10.644
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): not an oversight. It was actually not in scope for this evaluation. This… the
exception, or the exception request specifically cites the part of the code that it is attempting to… it recognizes that it needs a mitigation for. That is… that is the full scope of the evaluation for the exception request.
50501:18:10.725 --> 01:18:15.864Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Everything else was evaluated. We do have the, the water,
506
01:18:15.985 --> 01:18:29.435Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the levels of the potential fire flow. We have all of that stuff that was actually part of the evaluation, and when it comes down to it, I would say that if you want further detail or anything that
50701:18:30.125 --> 01:18:35.154
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): isn't contained in what I just said. I… I or my… or Chief Fox can help.
50801:18:35.155 --> 01:18:36.095Speaker 8 (Community Hall): No, no, this is great.
50901:18:36.100 --> 01:18:39.770Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I don't want to take up too much time of, like, 3 more questions. One is really
on evacuation.
51001:18:39.780 --> 01:18:50.279Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And that's reconciling some information we have. Your memo states that department determined that this specific… that this project provides for safe civilian evacuation. The city's own
511
01:18:50.280 --> 01:18:52.599
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Bear and Peter's study,
51201:18:52.600 --> 01:19:12.150Speaker 5 (Community Hall): pure study, fair and pure study, shows that Foothill Boulevard has a volume-to-capacity ratio of 4.0, which is high, and Stevens Creek Boulevard at 3.6 during a wildfire scenario. This is 3 to 4 times the overcapacity before adding 51 more units, and potentially 100 to 200… 150 people to a single access peninsula.
513
01:19:12.300 --> 01:19:24.939
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Can you walk the Council through how you reconciled your determination with that data? Did you review the fair and peer study? And if your determination was based on the developer-prepared evacuation study referenced in the February 10th agenda item.
51401:19:26.790 --> 01:19:44.879Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I know that's a lot. No, no, absolutely not. So, what we had, we evaluate the… what's in 4290 for the site, as I stated earlier. So, with that, the evacuation is for those people that live in that… in that site. The… the… the topic of evacuation, so Santa Clara County Fire.
515
01:19:45.670 --> 01:19:49.530Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Acts as a subject matter expert for the city and for staff.
51601:19:50.240 --> 01:20:03.850Speaker 10 (Community Hall): We've been working in that capacity for quite a long time, and we will continue to do so, so when it comes to public safety needs or other related fire response, we're here, and
this is what we do. This was out of scope for this particular evaluation.
51701:20:03.855 --> 01:20:08.215Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So evacuation routes were out of scope in this evaluation, just to be clear. Yes. Okay.
51801:20:09.295 --> 01:20:23.424
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, alright, and then the next question is, Government Code Section
65913.4A, Section 6D, which AB130 incorporates, allows a project in a very… in this very high-fire hazard…
51901:20:23.495 --> 01:20:35.815Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Zone to proceed only if it has adapted fire hazard mitigation measures pursuant to existing building standards or state fire mitigation measures under, and the statute says, all of the following.
520
01:20:35.855 --> 01:20:51.704
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You know PRC 4291, PRC4290, and Chapter 7A. The word is all, not part, if
that's correct. The Fire Department's own approval for PRC 4290 is titled, Application for Use of Alternate Materials, Methods of Construction, or Modification of Code.
52101:20:51.725 --> 01:20:56.675Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That is an exception from PRC 4290's 30-foot setback and not compliance with
it.
522
01:20:56.675 --> 01:21:12.335Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Compliant with it, can we explain to the Council how modification of the Code constitutes adoption of measures pursuant to the Code, as the statute requires? Because if the project has not adopted the measures pursuant to all three standards, the legal basis for the AB130 exemption appears to be missing.
523
01:21:12.665 --> 01:21:13.885
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, great.
52401:21:13.885 --> 01:21:23.024
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Thank you. The… the… the exemption from… from CEQA, not in scope for us.
We actually were reviewing
52501:21:23.025 --> 01:21:38.274Speaker 10 (Community Hall): in… we were reviewing in accordance with 4290. In 4290, the definition first
with the same practical effect is used in the subchapter to mean the exceptions or alternative, the capability
of applying accepted wildfire suppression strategies and tactics.
52601:21:38.455 --> 01:21:59.615Speaker 10 (Community Hall): provisions for firefighter safety, which include access for emergency wildland equipment, safe civilian evacuation, signage that avoids delays in emergency equipment response, available on an accessible water supply to effectively attack wildfire or defend a structure from wildfire or fuel modifications sufficient for civilian and firefighter safety. All of those things are in scope.
527
01:21:59.645 --> 01:22:01.204
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Under that definition.
52801:22:01.415 --> 01:22:02.415Speaker 10 (Community Hall): with that.
529
01:22:03.225 --> 01:22:19.784
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): With regard to exceptions to standards, the exceptions to the standards in
Section 127007, exceptions, upon request by the applicant, the exception to the standard with this subchapter may be allowed by the inspecting entity in accordance with Title 14, Chapter 7,
53001:22:19.785 --> 01:22:35.974Speaker 10 (Community Hall): our chapter, or, excuse me, Section 127006, where the exception provided
the same practical effect and these regulations towards providing defensible space. So, the request in
Section B of that requests that the exception be made in writing to local jurisdiction
53101:22:36.165 --> 01:22:40.494Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And that the applicant… or they're authorized
53201:22:40.645 --> 01:22:43.284
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): representative. So, we did receive that.
533
01:22:43.525 --> 01:22:54.924Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The setback request was specifically outlining that setback. The setback was, for the the parcel and…
53401:22:55.555 --> 01:22:59.104
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The 30-foot is the standard, and that's the starting point.
535
01:23:00.435 --> 01:23:18.305Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, all parcels shall provide a minimum of 30-foot setback for all buildings from property lines and or the center of the road, except as provided in… for in Subchapter B. So, absolutely
no challenge to the fact that 30 feet is… Vice Mayor? The, reduction in the minimum fire set… minimum
setback… Excuse me.
53601:23:18.305 --> 01:23:24.955Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Excuse me, can you put what the document you are reading on the slide?
Projector? Yeah. Oh, there we go.
53701:23:24.955 --> 01:23:25.695Speaker 5 (Community Hall): It's doing better.
53801:23:25.700 --> 01:23:32.320Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The public can see, because it's a very long paragraph. I think I know how to
find it, but it…
53901:23:32.960 --> 01:23:38.060Speaker 10 (Community Hall): It will help the public. Thank you. Yeah, so, with that, this…
54001:23:38.260 --> 01:23:48.820Speaker 10 (Community Hall): effectively will tell us that, or this informs us to how and what we should be
evaluating and the scope of which we should. This is the objective standard that has been provided through
4290.
54101:23:49.020 --> 01:23:51.309Speaker 10 (Community Hall): non-combustible block… So I get, I get…
54201:23:51.315 --> 01:24:09.484
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I get $42.90, I get $42.90, but $42.91 isn't in there, so let me… let me pull this
all together here, so I've got everyone here, and I know it's a lot of technical jargon and legalese and policy
for everyone out here, but there's apparently 3 things we have to answer. We've got 2 out of 3, so let's bring
this full circle. You've explained how
54301:24:10.525 --> 01:24:13.125Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The department and yourself evaluated the proposed
544
01:24:13.695 --> 01:24:18.824
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): proposal, weighted the mitigations, determined that a 5-foot zone was okay.
54501:24:18.885 --> 01:24:33.405Speaker 5 (Community Hall): reconciled competing types of evacuation data and decided that SPE, same practical effect components, required analysis. And every one of those steps involved your professional judgment, and that is entirely appropriate, and we trust you there.
546
01:24:33.405 --> 01:24:50.104
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But that is what we expect from our fire professionals. But AB130 provides a CEQA exemption only for projects that are ministerial, which the city applies objective standards without exercising personal judgment. 14ccR1276.01 sets an objective standard, 30 feet.
54701:24:50.125 --> 01:25:09.725Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The proposed project has 10 feet. Your own plan review labels that a deficiency. So my question, and this is for the city attorney as well, is this… and, well, was the fire department's same practical effect, SPE finding, a ministerial act or discretionary one? And if it was
ministerial, then no real safety
54801:25:09.745 --> 01:25:14.044Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Evaluation occurred, and the neighbors should be concerned. And if it was discretionary.
54901:25:14.135 --> 01:25:27.015
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): which the record of this evening's testimony might demonstrate, then this
project has a discretionary component, and it is not eligible for an AB130 sequel exemption. I'd like an
answer from, our city attorney and from the fire department.
55001:25:31.730 --> 01:25:42.619Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Councilmember Wong, that's a very interesting question. You know, I might pass this to our attorney, Pam Lee. I should let you know that Pam Lee is, head of our housing
551
01:25:42.620 --> 01:25:53.590
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): practice group at Alshar & Winder, an equity partner with the firm, and she's
here to support this project, with legal advice, etc, so… or this item, I should say. So,
55201:25:53.590 --> 01:25:54.829Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Pam, if you're available?
553
01:25:56.380 --> 01:26:02.400
Pam Lee, Item #3: Sure, thank you very much. I believe to answer your question, and it relates specifically
to whether
55401:26:02.480 --> 01:26:19.260Pam Lee, Item #3: AB 130 applies with a specific reference to the fire mitigation measures that allow a project to slide under and become exempt under CEQA, even though it's in a very high fire hazard severity
zone.
555
01:26:19.350 --> 01:26:27.109Pam Lee, Item #3: And, I believe Powers & Associates did the analysis for CEQA, and for the fire,
55601:26:27.680 --> 01:26:41.890Pam Lee, Item #3: mitigation measures with respect to the 30-foot setback requirement, there are, and I
believe, you know, fire personnel here with the assistant chief already articulated that under, 1270 point, I
believe.
55701:26:41.890 --> 01:26:51.430Pam Lee, Item #3: 07 or 1270.01, as well as 1270 point… or 1276.01, allow for the
55801:26:51.460 --> 01:27:08.570Pam Lee, Item #3: setback of 30 feet to be reduced subject to meeting certain requirements, related to non-combustible materials, and they elicited them there. So in that sense, it's not necessarily discretionary. There are a list of standards and objectives, that if
559
01:27:08.570 --> 01:27:14.920Pam Lee, Item #3: met would allow them to have a decreased setback than what is required under the code.
56001:27:16.250 --> 01:27:19.000Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, is it discretionary, or is it ministerial here?
561
01:27:19.160 --> 01:27:28.010Pam Lee, Item #3: It's ministerial, in that sense, because there's a list of objective standards that are met that allow them to reduce the setback requirement.
56201:27:28.750 --> 01:27:43.140Pam Lee, Item #3: And they've listed those there, and it indicates that they're including, but not limited to.
In that sense, it's discretionary, but the list provides objective standards by which the reduced setbacks can
be achieved.
56301:27:44.710 --> 01:27:48.540Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you very much. I'll yield back my time. Not that there's much to yield.
564
01:27:50.950 --> 01:27:51.740
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Vice Mayor?
56501:27:55.200 --> 01:27:55.930Speaker 4 (Community Hall): refugees.
56601:27:56.220 --> 01:28:01.559
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Thank you, sir. Thank you, Chief. Okay, so I'll follow up on the fires, issue.
56701:28:03.040 --> 01:28:07.229Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So… I'll share my screen.
56801:28:09.690 --> 01:28:11.820Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I guess first, a question.
569
01:28:12.080 --> 01:28:17.479Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And your memo says that the approval is determined case by case.
570
01:28:18.200 --> 01:28:37.470
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, for different cases, you will accept different, alternative method for 30 foot, maybe to 20, 10 foot, or depending on the… so what kind of things are… do you consider, case by case? Well, so…
571
01:28:37.750 --> 01:28:44.919
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): That's correct. So, we will accept anything that is provided by the applicant.
57201:28:44.925 --> 01:28:48.425Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Do you accept anything provided by the applicant?
573
01:28:48.665 --> 01:29:06.755
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): As a submission, yes. If they submit something, that doesn't mean we're
going to approve it. So, we will accept any proposal that's coming in through reception or an AMR process.
They have to follow the format and basically identify what deficiency they are,
57401:29:06.935 --> 01:29:15.935Speaker 10 (Community Hall): they are trying to mitigate against. They're gonna come up with their own proposals, and at that point, that's where, for this same practical effect effort, we will be looking at,
575
01:29:16.375 --> 01:29:19.934
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The effectiveness and the, perceived
57601:29:19.945 --> 01:29:32.634Speaker 10 (Community Hall): deficiency that exists. We'll make sure that, just like I explained earlier, we'll align that with the, the deficiency with the proposed setback. Once they hit a certain point where the,
577
01:29:32.635 --> 01:29:42.365
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): benefits have outweighed the, what is the understood unexpected, deficiency, they will have met that standard. The thing is, is that
57801:29:42.565 --> 01:29:51.155Speaker 10 (Community Hall): This is based on… on not just, the, the code, it's not… and, it is based on experience and our,
579
01:29:51.335 --> 01:29:59.584Speaker 10 (Community Hall): our, basically our engineering staff's credential and their experience as well, so there's a two-fold. Is it…
58001:29:59.675 --> 01:30:21.264Speaker 10 (Community Hall): likely to be able to still achieve the intent of the fire code. We verify that first,
like I said earlier. Make sure that it's in alignment, we make sure that it's in alignment, and that what is
proposed is going to actually solve the problem. So if it's a water problem, we look for a water solution. If it's
an access problem, we look for an access solution. Sometimes it's a time problem.
58101:30:21.285 --> 01:30:33.364
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So something that buys us more time from an operational standpoint will
actually allow us to get there sooner. This is one of the reasons that sprinklers are such an effective tool in any mitigation.
582
01:30:33.365 --> 01:30:50.385
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So there is no written standard that's adopted by anyone on what kind of
mitigation measures would be sufficient, would have the same practical effect as 10-foot setback versus 30-
foot. There is no… nothing written.
58301:30:50.385 --> 01:30:51.975Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the ones that we approved. It's…
584
01:30:52.260 --> 01:31:00.360
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So the applicant proposed a list, you kind of evaluate best on top of your head?
No, we do.
58501:31:00.365 --> 01:31:03.614Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I said we do it, and so what that means is… So what technically could…
586
01:31:03.615 --> 01:31:04.245
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Alice is…
58701:31:04.245 --> 01:31:12.365Speaker 10 (Community Hall): follow that process. So with that, we evaluate based on what it is. If they fall short because the mitigations are insufficient, they get rejected.
588
01:31:12.365 --> 01:31:16.894
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): What technical analysis do you do to decide if
58901:31:17.325 --> 01:31:29.004Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 is not sufficient in units 6 and 7. What technical analysis do you do to determine if it's sufficient or not?
590
01:31:29.335 --> 01:31:32.304
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): To provide the same practical effect.
59101:31:34.450 --> 01:31:44.550Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, we will take the mitigations that have been offered, we will make sure that they are in alignment and they do have an effect.
592
01:31:44.555 --> 01:31:45.425
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Use our experience.
59301:31:45.425 --> 01:31:53.455Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And we use the code, and we use the commentary to make sure that the
intent is correct.
594
01:31:53.475 --> 01:31:56.465
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And we make sure that that is in alignment. For example.
59501:31:56.485 --> 01:32:06.545Speaker 10 (Community Hall): If I have a reduction where I'm going to experience a bit of a water deficiency, one of the things that I can do is I can have the water system
596
01:32:06.555 --> 01:32:21.844
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): enhanced in some way. That's one thing. I can also increase the number of sprinklers in an area, or I can increase the spaces that a sprinkler has to be provided. So, those are all effective mitigations. They all have a
59701:32:21.985 --> 01:32:23.475
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Predictable.
598
01:32:25.245 --> 01:32:34.774Speaker 10 (Community Hall): impact, and the thing is, is that in this business, it's very difficult to say how much… how much, property value did I save? We can't…
59901:32:34.775 --> 01:32:35.844
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): These are not the…
600
01:32:35.845 --> 01:32:49.934Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Adopted majors. I'm sorry? These are not adopted mitigation majors. They are determined case by case, based on your experience, according to what the applicant proposed.
60101:32:51.320 --> 01:32:54.619
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The adopted mitigation measures are in 4290. They are part.
602
01:32:54.625 --> 01:32:55.385Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Yeah, definitely.
60301:32:55.385 --> 01:33:00.365Speaker 4 (Community Hall): There is no adopted mitigation measure for tenfold setback.
604
01:33:00.495 --> 01:33:01.385
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): There is nothing.
60501:33:01.385 --> 01:33:14.885Speaker 10 (Community Hall): setback, like I said, an example of a combined mitigation plan is what was presented in that multi-phase, the two that were on the specific list, the two that were… Okay, that's fine.
606
01:33:14.885 --> 01:33:21.295
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Do you know what's the age of the existing homes next to the property? I believe they were built in the 50s.
607
01:33:21.835 --> 01:33:36.314
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): They are built in the 50s, so they are not built with the modern home
hardening standard. No, they are not, is what I'm saying. Yeah, so the 30-foot setback, one of the most
important,
60801:33:36.515 --> 01:33:43.825Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Issue to require surgery for the setback by the state is to reduce structure-to-structure ignition.
609
01:33:44.380 --> 01:33:46.200
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Structure to structure reduction has been the thing.
61001:33:46.200 --> 01:33:53.649Speaker 4 (Community Hall): How do you determine that 30… on when the existing homes are built in the 50s?
611
01:33:54.780 --> 01:34:03.069
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I'm sorry, I don't understand. When the… when the… the homes around the property is… was built in the 50s.
61201:34:03.070 --> 01:34:03.509Speaker 10 (Community Hall): talking about the.
613
01:34:03.510 --> 01:34:04.999
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): homes in the neighborhood?
61401:34:05.005 --> 01:34:06.505Speaker 4 (Community Hall): neighborhood. This has… there is.
615
01:34:06.505 --> 01:34:10.265
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): There is no evaluation of the neighboring homes or homes per block.
61601:34:10.265 --> 01:34:19.794Speaker 4 (Community Hall): How do you determine that the 30-foot setback, the effectiveness of provided by 30-foot back… setback.
617
01:34:20.215 --> 01:34:37.885
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I'm trying to decide, based on the California code, the alternative method
should provide same practical effect. Okay, so… And the same practical effect should be the same as a 30-foot, setback
618
01:34:37.885 --> 01:34:41.605
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Even when… especially when you have older homes.
61901:34:41.725 --> 01:34:49.115Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And so I'm trying to comprehend how the proposed majors can provide the
same practical effect
62001:34:49.535 --> 01:34:54.924Speaker 4 (Community Hall): A 30-foot setback, especially when you are in an older neighborhood.
62101:34:55.395 --> 01:34:56.005Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Did 35.
622
01:34:56.005 --> 01:35:00.014Speaker 10 (Community Hall): foot setback, as specified in 4290,
62301:35:00.295 --> 01:35:08.315Speaker 10 (Community Hall): has the exception for a condition that does not have the 30-foot setback. That, therefore, it actually creates…
624
01:35:08.320 --> 01:35:10.949Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I believe it has the same practical effect.
62501:35:11.265 --> 01:35:22.015Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Therefore, it creates the parameters for evaluating same practical effect, and how to evaluate same practical effect for setback. That is found in 1276.
626
01:35:22.245 --> 01:35:33.545Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And 127601. So, with that, that is the objective standard, that is the standard we use, that is the way that we applied it, and that is what we did in this project. Okay, so for.
62701:35:33.545 --> 01:35:42.124Speaker 4 (Community Hall): for example, One of the proposed mitigation measures that's on the screen
right now is a fire sprinkler.
62801:35:42.355 --> 01:35:46.065Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, how… when would a fire sprinkler be triggered?
62901:35:47.140 --> 01:35:50.560Speaker 10 (Community Hall): By heat? It would be triggered by heat, most likely. By heat, throughout.
630
01:35:50.560 --> 01:36:04.560Speaker 4 (Community Hall): It hasn't been. Yeah, but then, but we know that, structure-to-structure fire could be triggered by ember that may travel before the heat even reach the
631
01:36:04.750 --> 01:36:08.989Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the area. So how could a fire sprinkler
632
01:36:09.440 --> 01:36:15.240
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Triggered by heat have the same practical effect as 30-foot setback.
63301:36:16.330 --> 01:36:17.509Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I'm glad you asked that.
63401:36:17.920 --> 01:36:36.719
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): what we have here is we have a combination of hardening and defensible
space. If you go to CAL FIRE or IBHS, you'll see that these are a system, like I said earlier. These work
together. Each one of them has an increased percentage of survivability for a structure. So with that, the
home hardening
63501:36:37.210 --> 01:36:47.960Speaker 10 (Community Hall): will take care of embers. So those… those wind-driven embers that are coming in, you have mesh sizes that will resist embers from getting into the structure. There's requirements for the,
636
01:36:48.000 --> 01:36:59.329Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the siding of the home. This one is actually going… or the homes, they're going to be, fire rated to an hour, which is not required by code. There's going to be an opportunity to actually take advantage of the
63701:36:59.420 --> 01:37:16.140
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): additional features of the home, the tempered glass, the other items that are
going to be the Class A roof. These all work together to resist the insult of embers and direct flame. When
you combine that with the Zone Zero non-combustible 5-foot zone.
63801:37:16.140 --> 01:37:29.659Speaker 10 (Community Hall): At that point, you don't have flames making it to the home, you don't have anything that's being driven by wind, accumulating, catching fire, and taking the opportunity, because fire is an opportunistic entity. It will take hold and.
639
01:37:29.665 --> 01:37:31.165
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Get into the neighborhood.
64001:37:31.165 --> 01:37:31.924Speaker 2 (Community Hall): area, and then…
641
01:37:31.925 --> 01:37:41.124
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And in those areas, even with wind blown, those areas that would catch in
those covered porches, anything there will be extinguished by fire, and they will be triggered by heat.
642
01:37:41.235 --> 01:37:54.314
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, with that, there's an active component to this that will ensure that these structures will have survivability when it comes to the insult of that heat in a wildfire or a firestorm.
643
01:37:54.720 --> 01:38:10.190
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Okay, so, sharing on the screen now is a list of, suggested, features to include
to reduce structure-to-structure, ignition from the section 1276.
64401:38:10.380 --> 01:38:13.429Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And I think you mentioned in your memo that
645
01:38:13.590 --> 01:38:19.949
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Two of them are included in the mitigate… in the alternative method.
64601:38:20.100 --> 01:38:38.510Speaker 4 (Community Hall): But not all of them. So, how come you did not include non-combustible block walls or fences? Non-combustible block walls. And you did not include hardening of landscaping, and I think not including reduction of exposed windows?
647
01:38:39.160 --> 01:38:46.620
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Are they… So, because from 30 to 10 feet, it's a huge reduction.
64801:38:46.625 --> 01:38:47.584Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I will acknowledge it.
649
01:38:47.585 --> 01:39:00.664
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): is a significant decrease, so I understand your concern. Let's get to the
question. Features, such as, but not limited to, very first important point. So that means anything in this list,
these are suggested specifically. So of that,
65001:39:00.755 --> 01:39:19.275Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The ability to actually enforce or request the non-combustible block walls or fences is still one that is in our future. It is something that, if it were to come to the… when we get to the building phase, this would be one of those things that's specified. We did not see that in a plan. It is our
intent to make sure that we continue to
65101:39:19.275 --> 01:39:28.544Speaker 10 (Community Hall): to enforce 4290 and any other standard, especially with regard to fire protection, on these projects. All of them, which we do across the board.
65201:39:28.545 --> 01:39:37.815
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): non-combustible materials. The 5 feet, and the, landscape, or the hardscape
landscaping, is actually, overlap.
65301:39:37.905 --> 01:39:50.275Speaker 10 (Community Hall): That hardscape landscaping is a component of the Zone Zero, which is also
not specified as a required item now, because Board of Forestry never came down with a recommendation
for it, but they are still going to be applying it to this project.
65401:39:50.665 --> 01:39:56.805Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the, production of that, and then it's set back. So, with that…
655
01:39:57.755 --> 01:40:06.834Speaker 10 (Community Hall): What we have here is we basically have a structure that actually does have resilience, and it has much more than just about any other one in the neighborhood.
65601:40:06.945 --> 01:40:12.945Speaker 10 (Community Hall): this is, this is something I will not deny. The homes in the neighborhood exist,
but they do not have
65701:40:13.135 --> 01:40:31.125Speaker 10 (Community Hall): whatever wasn't actually added to them or modified, those are components of that particular property owner. Land use and other rights are some… one of those things that we have to make sure that these things and our observations and our, requests or our enforcement stops at the property line. So with that.
658
01:40:31.175 --> 01:40:50.284
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The property line's 10 feet away. We actually don't have 10 foot as the zone.
We have at least 14, because if you build an ADU, you have another 4 feet. With a non-combustible fence, that's a heat shield. That will also resist heat, just like as if radiation. You know, basically, it's time, distance, and shielding. So with that, it will also act in
65901:40:50.325 --> 01:41:03.524
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): as an essential aid in making sure that flame or heat isn't getting towards
these buildings, and or if these buildings ignite, they will not… actually, it will not be pushed out as far or
hard. So with that,
66001:41:05.135 --> 01:41:13.315Speaker 10 (Community Hall): For those things that we could look at, we looked at them. For those things that we evaluated, we did. There were no waivers. We don't give anyone a waiver.
661
01:41:13.365 --> 01:41:24.915
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And that's actually one of the reasons that I catch so much heat. So with that,
I'm okay with that. And when it comes down to it, we try to make sure that we're always enforcing in compliance with the code.
66201:41:24.965 --> 01:41:36.124Speaker 10 (Community Hall): We work with… we worked with Board of Forestry, CAL FIRE, we asked for interpretations, we asked for additional information. When it comes down to it, we look for as much
663
01:41:36.235 --> 01:41:46.184Speaker 10 (Community Hall): assistance, clarification, and support that we can from those agencies that create the legislation. And in addition to that, we also make sure that we're dealing with our own…
66401:41:46.930 --> 01:41:47.680Speaker 2 (Community Hall): We're out of…
665
01:41:47.685 --> 01:41:52.184
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): We're always within our authority, so we do that, and we do that consistently.
66601:41:52.185 --> 01:42:03.674Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And one last question is regarding the justification to receive alternative methods, is that justification is a density requirement, and as…
667
01:42:03.745 --> 01:42:21.284
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the staff has provided… has mentioned, when the CT adopted 20 units per
acre, they envision a product type, there exists a product type that would meet all of the CT requirements. However, the applicant choose to
66801:42:22.875 --> 01:42:24.174Speaker 4 (Community Hall): choose to…
669
01:42:24.495 --> 01:42:34.165
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): provide a product type that would require the 30-foot… that would not meet the 30-foot setback. That would be because, it's,
67001:42:34.705 --> 01:42:38.645Speaker 4 (Community Hall): It's a larger 4-bedroom townhomes.
671
01:42:38.645 --> 01:42:55.024
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And even… even though removing the 500 square foot that's required for garage, it's still larger for bedrooms, because I remember when I was searching for homes, there… there were, like, a thousand square foot for bedrooms that's really comfortable.
67201:42:55.225 --> 01:42:59.445Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So… We are looking at
673
01:42:59.485 --> 01:43:18.234Speaker 4 (Community Hall): four-bedroom, that's not a requirement by the city. We did not require higher density, higher, large units, and especially for housing element, for… to further affirmatively, to affirmatively further fair housing, we actually need
67401:43:18.235 --> 01:43:23.674
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): smaller homes, because they are naturally more affordable in Cupertino.
67501:43:23.695 --> 01:43:29.015Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And we have other larger 4-bedrooms in Monta Vista. So, smaller.
676
01:43:29.045 --> 01:43:42.124Speaker 4 (Community Hall): two, three bedrooms are actually more desirable for Cupertino to serve our housing element goals. And that's not a justification, I think.
677
01:43:42.775 --> 01:43:50.114
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): that's not a requirement of density, it's a… it's a preference by the applicant.
67801:43:51.315 --> 01:43:59.915Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And, so how would you justify that they meet the justification requirements for practical reasons?
679
01:44:00.365 --> 01:44:06.514
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): To be able to, get a sturdy, reduction of 30 for the setback.
68001:44:09.700 --> 01:44:17.559Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I don't disagree with anything you said. This is a design choice. This is for the applicant who… and the builder to answer. So with that… Agreed.
681
01:44:17.565 --> 01:44:20.565
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That means you should not approve the AML.
68201:44:20.565 --> 01:44:26.824Speaker 10 (Community Hall): What we did was we accepted an exception request because there was a deficiency. That is the trigger. No, the laws.
683
01:44:26.825 --> 01:44:37.824
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): It says you can only allow reduction of 34% setback if there is justification, and
you just said you agree there is no justification.
68401:44:37.825 --> 01:44:55.194Speaker 10 (Community Hall): What I said was, I agree with the design decision is that of the applicant. It has nothing to do with us. What we did is we accepted it on… and you have to take a look at that entire paragraph that you picked from, because it is not, just the specific section that you cited.
685
01:44:55.195 --> 01:45:05.134Speaker 10 (Community Hall): There are other reasons, and there is even one that is other reasons. So, for that, for whatever reason, they were deficient, they found themselves to be deficient.
68601:45:05.175 --> 01:45:06.634Speaker 10 (Community Hall): It is their right.
687
01:45:06.715 --> 01:45:09.035Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And it is their choice to submit.
688
01:45:09.175 --> 01:45:15.975
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): a, request, and so they did. That is why we took it. And it is within the code.
68901:45:16.750 --> 01:45:18.180Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Hmm, okay.
690
01:45:19.410 --> 01:45:20.879Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Thank you so much. Thank you.
69101:45:21.590 --> 01:45:25.139Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you, and I want to share screen again.
692
01:45:27.940 --> 01:45:29.639
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Oh, tooth?
69301:45:30.740 --> 01:45:32.059Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Chief?
694
01:45:32.350 --> 01:45:35.200
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Fairy.
69501:45:35.960 --> 01:45:37.660Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That was gonna be a short night.
696
01:45:41.280 --> 01:45:44.360
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so I am sharing screen.
69701:45:48.770 --> 01:45:58.540Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so, this is from the El Dorado County Fire, and their setback, requirements that they have.
698
01:45:59.570 --> 01:46:06.450
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And what I thought was kind of interesting here is that they, for same practical
effect requirements, provide a matrix.
69901:46:06.860 --> 01:46:12.219Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And… I think this is really kind of interesting. So, here's their…
700
01:46:13.320 --> 01:46:15.830
Community Hall: Same practical effect matrix.
70101:46:17.070 --> 01:46:18.240Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So if you…
702
01:46:18.610 --> 01:46:27.960Speaker 1 (Community Hall): In their county, if you want to reduce your setback, as you reduce it, so you start at the 30 feet.
703
01:46:28.980 --> 01:46:48.910
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Then you make a reduction, you go to 20 to 29. They require 5 feet of non-
combustible material around the structure, and accessory structures, are prohibited in that, if you're going to that reduction, and then exterior walls will have the, fire-resistant materials, and,
70401:46:48.910 --> 01:46:50.520Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And the vents, okay.
705
01:46:50.520 --> 01:46:56.809
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, I won't go through the whole list, but when you get to a setback like we have, they've checked every box.
70601:46:57.430 --> 01:47:12.620Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And I think that's, kind of interesting, and I… it would be my preference that we would adopt something similar to this, but on the other hand, when I look at it, it also makes me wonder
about the,
70701:47:12.620 --> 01:47:22.710Speaker 1 (Community Hall): the subjective nature of… of these, requirements. So this county, Their subjective,
70801:47:23.140 --> 01:47:27.329
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Requirements are much stricter than what we have here.
70901:47:28.700 --> 01:47:43.310Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And one thing I like is that they're not using a mechanical system, a sprinkler system, which can fail, over time. It's going to need inspections, and you don't necessarily know about,
71001:47:43.440 --> 01:47:59.689
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): the water pressure, holding, and we've heard about this, this being an issue.
So for me, from a, like, viewing it from an engineering, standpoint, I prefer the, passive,
71101:47:59.880 --> 01:48:13.320Speaker 1 (Community Hall): passive requirements, as opposed to having a sprinkler system, something mechanical. So, my ideal preference would be to have the passive 30-foot setback, and then
712
01:48:13.860 --> 01:48:30.779
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): you know, I like what they're doing here by having this stepped-up,
requirement system. Do you have any, opinions about, this… this matrix, and, have you seen any other,
counties with similar matrices like this?
713
01:48:30.880 --> 01:48:31.760
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, this is a good.
71401:48:31.760 --> 01:48:38.060Speaker 10 (Community Hall): matrix. It's actually really… the thing is that it lands pretty close to where we
are right now. There's only one component of it that is not,
71501:48:38.260 --> 01:48:43.569Speaker 10 (Community Hall): share. That is the openings and the exterior windows. With that, the…
71601:48:43.570 --> 01:49:08.229Speaker 1 (Community Hall): May I ask about that? So, I do have some concern looking at the configuration
of the lot, which is, most adjacent to Linda Vista on the south side, where you have the various homes, and
on the north side, you've got the tennis, and one, single-family home. But on the south side, there is a
driveway, and then there's a garage with, looks like, second-story,
71701:49:08.230 --> 01:49:21.109Speaker 1 (Community Hall): interior living space, perhaps, on the second floor of the garage. That's only, like, 5 feet from the property line, so your actual structure-to-structure distance is going to end up being 15 feet, and I find that to be
718
01:49:21.110 --> 01:49:41.719
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): very, very close. Even if you did put a metal fence or some non-combustible fence in between there, the structure is much higher than the fence there. So I have this concern about the window space that they are having on the new development, that if you were to have a power wall, battery fire, or,
719
01:49:41.720 --> 01:49:42.830
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): a,
72001:49:42.880 --> 01:50:05.029Speaker 1 (Community Hall): electric vehicle fire in that, in that driveway, which extends along the property line there, that that is going to be a much different kind of situation, than if you simply had the wood structure burning, for… in terms of heat. And, I do think that we're going to be seeing more of these, home,
721
01:50:05.050 --> 01:50:15.110
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): battery packs being installed in the neighborhood. I did notice some solar on a
few of these houses already, and it… not only do you have the
72201:50:15.110 --> 01:50:29.519Speaker 1 (Community Hall): the heat from that, but you have all the toxic chemicals that are coming out of that. So, is that something that's being considered? I saw a little bit of this when I was doing my research, that it's kind of brand new.
723
01:50:29.600 --> 01:50:30.140Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So…
724
01:50:30.140 --> 01:50:33.809Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Great question. I'm gonna tell you one thing, and this is glo… this is…
725
01:50:33.930 --> 01:50:42.059
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): for everyone, we have not seen the actual plans for this final project yet. If it
did have an ESS or a battery back.
72601:50:42.330 --> 01:50:44.089Speaker 10 (Community Hall): A battery, a wall.
727
01:50:44.430 --> 01:51:02.099
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): it hasn't been located yet. We will see it coming up in the building phase.
These are the things, and that's the time when we will look at it. Like I said, everything that has any kind of
component of fire safety, we will look at, and we will make sure. That is actually where I just spent a week learning about
72801:51:02.210 --> 01:51:03.560Speaker 10 (Community Hall): these,
729
01:51:03.640 --> 01:51:15.169
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): ESSs, the BESSs, and batteries. It's a huge concern, and so it's such new technology, especially with the new lithium-ion incidents that are going on right now.
73001:51:15.170 --> 01:51:23.729Speaker 10 (Community Hall): some that have actually happened locally, and then Moss Landing. It's a huge concern, and we're taking it very seriously. So when it comes to things like that.
731
01:51:23.740 --> 01:51:32.420Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I would say, absolutely, those things will be in scope, but we haven't seen them yet, but we will evaluate them, and we'll make sure that considerations like that, because I share that concern.
73201:51:32.550 --> 01:51:49.159
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The next is, with regard to a passive or active system. Max on the passive
systems, and get the active systems is my philosophy. So, having both will be better than having just a few.
None will take the place of the other. And they work together, once again, as a system.
73301:51:49.280 --> 01:51:51.089Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Did you have anything else?
734
01:51:51.350 --> 01:51:55.479
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): As far as the technical components. Chief Fox has the technical side of the
house.
73501:51:55.485 --> 01:52:00.944
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Just on the comment of the ESS, we do look at…
736
01:52:01.075 --> 01:52:14.804
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): ESS regulations, as they relate to windows, and the, fire code regulation that's adopted by the City of Cupertino is that, windows at… any… windows or openings into a building
73701:52:15.085 --> 01:52:29.974Speaker 9 (Community Hall): have to be 3 feet from a ESS. So just to give you some perspective, if someone
were to put an ESS on their exterior wall, the requirement is only 3 feet from windows and doors.
738
01:52:34.620 --> 01:52:39.099Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Would you have a recommendation for our code with regards to that?
73901:52:41.070 --> 01:52:47.250Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I would love to. When it comes down to, because… and this is actually one of
the things that's good to…
740
01:52:47.330 --> 01:53:05.019Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Well, AB130, right? So, with regard to the code adoption and, the development of code, we actually, are… we participate in the development of the code. This is actually one of the things that's going on currently, is the development of the new codes with regard to all of the different challenges that we're now seeing. So,
741
01:53:05.020 --> 01:53:23.320
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Yes, we propose things sometimes that actually don't get all the way through.
We are more conservative about our requests. They go through the code adoption process, and they end up coming through here. We provide you with the actual code, the draft code. We make sure that it's consistent so that
74201:53:23.320 --> 01:53:25.090Speaker 10 (Community Hall): From both sides, there are
743
01:53:25.310 --> 01:53:34.470Speaker 10 (Community Hall): few surprises. And in addition, really, what it comes down to it is we try to be very conservative, but we try to make sure that we don't cross a line that's gonna basically
74401:53:34.470 --> 01:53:54.320Speaker 10 (Community Hall): end up putting us in a position like this. So, with regard to that, yes, we do
have a number of suggestions for codes that will be coming through. We are going through the normal
process through ICC, and then also through the California code adoption process, and we are very active in
that, because we have so many things going on in this area right now, especially Cupertino.
74501:53:56.270 --> 01:53:58.220Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Alright, thank you. Councilmember Fruen?
746
01:53:58.910 --> 01:54:01.499
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Sure, I'll try to make this one brief, I'll…
74701:54:01.680 --> 01:54:03.990Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Keep you up here first.
748
01:54:04.760 --> 01:54:14.320
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): There was a comment earlier with regard to Public Resources Code 4291 and why there was or wasn't sign-off on
74901:54:14.520 --> 01:54:24.199Speaker 8 (Community Hall): documentation related to this statute, but as I read the code, that seems to apply to projects that are in the state responsibility area. Is that accurate?
750
01:54:24.205 --> 01:54:29.965Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, 4291 is basically mainly vegetation management. So, with regard to the actual structures.
75101:54:30.245 --> 01:54:38.484Speaker 10 (Community Hall): 4290 is actually the one that applies. The, the closest component to that,
there is overlap, because 4291 does include Zone 0.
75201:54:38.485 --> 01:54:53.614Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, anything in all three zones. So, we are actually at a very high. All three apply, so 4291 does, but is not part of the building process. You still have to observe. We will now be observing for this particular project until it gets memorialized in a current,
753
01:54:53.735 --> 01:55:10.124
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): accepted standard, and adopted, we will be getting the Zone Zero
components, which we don't have to in the rest of the state at this moment. You'll get the Zone 1, the 5 to
30. That's going to be separation of vegetation and placement in strategic ways, including,
75401:55:10.495 --> 01:55:14.694Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the… Elimination of any fuel back to the structure.
755
01:55:14.755 --> 01:55:33.244
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): We'll have that 30 to 100 to the property line. We'll include everything that
basically will get fire from, getting from either the treetops down or down to the treetops by eliminating and getting rid of what we call ladder fuels. Also, spacing takes into account, slope.
75601:55:33.355 --> 01:55:38.114Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And other types of vegetation. There's an entire list of acceptable
757
01:55:38.205 --> 01:55:57.284
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): fire-safe, or more fire-safe vegetation types, and those that are absolutely not, supported or restricted. So, it's pretty comprehensive. It's been in place for quite… excuse me, quite a long time, and it is going to be part of the fuel mitigation, evaluation
75801:55:57.575 --> 01:56:04.545Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the actual fuel mitigation plans that may end up resulting in it. These things will all be in scope. Once again.
759
01:56:05.205 --> 01:56:08.434
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): When it's time to actually apply them, we will apply them.
76001:56:09.380 --> 01:56:13.169Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay, so in part, this is a timing issue, and there are certain things that are…
761
01:56:13.330 --> 01:56:16.800
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Appropriate to address at the building permit stage.
76201:56:17.350 --> 01:56:20.970Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Yes, sir. Exactly. It's just like, we couldn't actually tell you what this…
763
01:56:20.990 --> 01:56:33.840
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): But the actual configuration of where the sprinkler heads are going to be,
because it hasn't been submitted, is one of those things that we call a deferred submittal, because they have
to get the building to a certain point before the actual final decisions on some of those things are…
76401:56:33.840 --> 01:56:50.389Speaker 10 (Community Hall): are memorialized in a plan set, and then they come through for evaluation. So, the timing… this is… it's a project. So, a project plan and a project schedule is the way that these things work. Everything is done in a specific order. They have their constraints, and they basically have their
765
01:56:50.390 --> 01:57:01.149Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Things that have to happen before or after, so we won't see the sprinkler plans until later, which is also the vegetation, the landscaping plans are going to be something that we see a little bit later on as well.
76601:57:01.155 --> 01:57:04.855
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay, alright, and if it doesn't meet those standards, you would not…
76701:57:05.245 --> 01:57:11.564Speaker 8 (Community Hall): presumably approve a permit? Absolutely not. Okay, alright. And then for Luke.
76801:57:11.815 --> 01:57:27.494Speaker 8 (Community Hall): There was a comment with respect to how the Planning Commission
proceedings moved, and my recollection, and from having watched it at least 3 times, is that there were two
motions that occurred. Neither motion was ever to
76901:57:28.085 --> 01:57:45.644Speaker 8 (Community Hall): recommend denial of the pro… of the project. It was rather a first motion
offered by, one member of the Commission, seconded by another, to approve the pro… or rather, approve
the staff recommendation, which was to recommend approval, but without credit for the,
77001:57:45.995 --> 01:58:01.374Speaker 8 (Community Hall): park and lieu fees. And then there was a second… that motion did not carry,
there was a second motion that did carry with the other three members of the Planning Commissioner… of
the Planning Commission, who recommended approval with that credit.
77101:58:02.590 --> 01:58:09.159Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Yes, correct. And even the comments of the commissioners and summing up, I think, for the
772
01:58:09.590 --> 01:58:16.930
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): housing development, there appeared to be a 5-0 support. The 3-2 vote
occurred with the trail connection.
77301:58:17.200 --> 01:58:22.459Speaker 9 (Community Hall): the reduction in fees. Okay. There were two commissioners who clearly did not support that. Okay.
774
01:58:22.465 --> 01:58:24.955
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Alright, I just wanted to clarify that. Thank you.
77501:58:27.100 --> 01:58:31.280Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I'm gonna go next to, Councilmember Mohan, and then Vice Mayor.
776
01:58:33.140 --> 01:58:36.180
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Great question.
77701:58:36.510 --> 01:58:45.229Speaker 6 (Community Hall): A quick question for you, Fire Chief. Since this property has always been in the high hazard zone.
778
01:58:45.510 --> 01:58:55.769
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And it's now been reclassified as very high hazard zone. What is the
adjustment that you had to make
77901:58:55.960 --> 01:58:58.490Speaker 6 (Community Hall): In your, in your review.
780
01:58:59.640 --> 01:59:13.430
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, great question, thank you for that. It actually wasn't in the… it wasn't
subject to 4290 before. There was no 30-foot setback requirement, and, when… when…
78101:59:13.540 --> 01:59:14.880
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): we,
782
01:59:15.060 --> 01:59:25.350
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I was here to present the LRA map adoption, and I was the one that, tried to explain to you why there was such a big change.
78301:59:25.430 --> 01:59:44.130Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So with that, one of the things that I talked about, essentially, what is the
difference, though? The difference is that, there are going to be different building standards, there are going
to be different things that are com- that are required for the Chapter 7A. So, we had to make sure that, first
of all, Cupertino, did desire 4290 to apply.
78401:59:44.340 --> 02:00:03.270Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And we confirmed that. Once that happened, we actually applied it. So that happened in December. December 4th? I think it was in December. That we actually realized that, okay, or where we, the decision was made to make sure that we applied it. So, that's when the deficiency was,
785
02:00:03.860 --> 02:00:07.159
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Basically, when it became a deficiency, so the line moved.
78602:00:07.330 --> 02:00:13.559Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So that was what we did, and that's how we handled it. We applied 4290, when it became
787
02:00:13.670 --> 02:00:14.809
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the law.
78802:00:15.320 --> 02:00:19.479Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Oh, okay. When you say the line moved, what is the line? So the…
789
02:00:19.485 --> 02:00:21.864
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The actual zone was high.
79002:00:22.185 --> 02:00:39.174Speaker 10 (Community Hall): high does not require minimum fire safe standards in the LRA. It still does not. It's only very high. So, with that, the defensible space component also does not apply. So, the three zones is not something that a person in the high or the moderate has to do currently. So…
791
02:00:39.435 --> 02:00:50.594
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Having that transition over from high to very high means that now the defensible space and the building standards and 4290 apply. So, we applied them.
79202:00:51.300 --> 02:00:55.470Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Can you repeat that? I sort of missed the last words.
793
02:00:55.585 --> 02:01:01.444
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Before, there was no requirement for defensible space. There was no 30-foot setback.
794
02:01:01.545 --> 02:01:14.034
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): requirement. There was no, there was no, fuel mitigation or defensible space,
and there was no requirement for, some of the building standard, stuff. So, with that.
79502:01:15.145 --> 02:01:26.045Speaker 10 (Community Hall): being now, after, I think you adopted in June, I think it was 17th or something like that, where, after the second reading, at that point, it became law.
796
02:01:26.265 --> 02:01:32.355
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, we had to verify, through Cupertino, that you indeed did want it to,
79702:01:32.475 --> 02:01:36.235Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Our recommendation, of course, would have been to apply it. So,
798
02:01:36.375 --> 02:01:39.935
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The answer that came back and the verification was yes, apply it.
79902:01:40.155 --> 02:01:42.415Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So that's when we actually,
80002:01:42.815 --> 02:01:51.594
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): applied it, and that's where the mitigation was required, because that's when
the deficiency actually became a deficiency. It was not a deficiency before.
80102:01:51.905 --> 02:01:53.975Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Is that clear? Do you want to add anything, Brett?
80202:01:56.535 --> 02:01:57.525
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Alright.
803
02:01:58.005 --> 02:02:01.614Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I'm… I can try again. No.
80402:02:01.620 --> 02:02:09.420Speaker 6 (Community Hall): I'm just a little puzzled that now from high to very high, and now the setback
Has be- has…
805
02:02:10.160 --> 02:02:11.549Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Decreased?
806
02:02:11.770 --> 02:02:14.999
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, the setback requirement, so we…
80702:02:15.270 --> 02:02:17.660Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Before, when it was in the high.
808
02:02:17.820 --> 02:02:26.530Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And before the LRA map adoption, that was actually the… that was the event that changed the, the requirements, or the rules.
80902:02:26.750 --> 02:02:29.659Speaker 10 (Community Hall): When that was adopted by Council.
810
02:02:29.860 --> 02:02:41.569Speaker 10 (Community Hall): at that point, this property became part of the adopted map, which said you are in the very high. So it changed the designation, which also changed the requirement.
81102:02:41.850 --> 02:02:43.890Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So now the requirement wasn't…
812
02:02:44.220 --> 02:02:53.310Speaker 10 (Community Hall): 10 feet. It was 30. So, they actually, I believe, had a compliant… a compliant Setback before that.
81302:02:53.640 --> 02:03:13.289Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Once Council adopted LRA, it did not. So they found themselves in a position,
and once again, it's for the developer to respond to with regard to the decisions they made at that point,
change it, or go for the exception. This is their choice, and it is the choice that they made to put in for the
exception.
81402:03:14.380 --> 02:03:17.379Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Okay, and you have approved the change from 30 to 10?
815
02:03:19.220 --> 02:03:28.859
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The change from 30 to 10 happened because of the action of the LRA map
adoption. The actual line and the project did not change.
81602:03:28.960 --> 02:03:45.759Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, when the exception process came in, we went through the same practical effect evaluation through 4290. We applied it as it prescribed for us, and we went through, and they had, proposed enough, and it was deemed that they did meet same practical effect.
817
02:03:47.280 --> 02:03:50.600
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Okay, so if this did not change, if we're gonna get to,
818
02:03:50.910 --> 02:04:04.039
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): For instance, for instance, if this zone did not change, that setback would not be… would not have required an AMMOR or a… or an exception request.
819
02:04:05.730 --> 02:04:10.470
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you. Okay, Vice Mayor, and then Councilmember Wong.
82002:04:12.450 --> 02:04:13.130Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Oops.
82102:04:14.980 --> 02:04:16.850
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Just quickly, on…
822
02:04:17.080 --> 02:04:28.449Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I think we were talking about the justification for the setback reduction. This is a screenshot of the fair tips document. So…
82302:04:28.700 --> 02:04:39.070
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): A is all puzzles shall provide a minimum 30-foot setback for all buildings. B, a
reduction in the minimum setback
82402:04:39.170 --> 02:04:55.730Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Shall be based upon practical reasons, which may include, but not limited to, parcel dimensions, or size, topographical limitations, development density requirements, or other development patterns.
825
02:04:55.940 --> 02:05:03.219
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And blah blah blah. On… So, the justification given so far?
82602:05:03.350 --> 02:05:09.370Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Does not meet this… Requirement that shall be based upon.
827
02:05:10.790 --> 02:05:14.130
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I would include… Or other site constraints.
82802:05:14.135 --> 02:05:18.635Speaker 4 (Community Hall): But these are not… these are design choices, as you have mentioned.
82902:05:18.635 --> 02:05:22.395
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): change what it says. It says other site constraints, and that's what I would.
830
02:05:22.395 --> 02:05:32.475Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That's not a site constraint, because they could build smaller units, so that the units are more affordable, so we can better meet housing element goals.
831
02:05:32.895 --> 02:05:35.184Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And the development density requirements?
832
02:05:35.895 --> 02:05:40.985
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We require only the number of units, not minimum unit size.
83302:05:41.095 --> 02:05:41.895Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So…
83402:05:41.895 --> 02:05:55.965
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): the deficiency existed, this is very broadly worded, and I think that is, it's… I
know it's intentional, so with that, the submission,
83502:05:56.325 --> 02:05:58.915Speaker 10 (Community Hall): From… that we received,
83602:06:00.075 --> 02:06:06.535
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): definitely would fall into the other site constraints, potentially, and it may hit
others as well, so… Those are sites.
83702:06:06.535 --> 02:06:09.874Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Design choices are not site constraints.
83802:06:10.335 --> 02:06:16.264
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): site constraints means physical constraint of the site. It means.
839
02:06:16.305 --> 02:06:23.005Speaker 10 (Community Hall): in context that other site constraints apply, and therefore they do. And that's the way we read it.
84002:06:23.010 --> 02:06:26.680
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And also, the alternatives should provide,
841
02:06:27.020 --> 02:06:31.109Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yeah, same practical effect. Anyway, okay.
84202:06:31.515 --> 02:06:39.944Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Pardon, Vice Mayor, I was wondering if you, you are curious what the Fire
Chief's ability to deny,
843
02:06:39.975 --> 02:06:52.025Speaker 1 (Community Hall): the request is, and maybe that's a question for our city attorney, or for the fire chief, is when can they deny, you know.
844
02:06:52.025 --> 02:07:01.514Speaker 1 (Community Hall): on what basis can they say, this isn't a practical reason, or you actually don't need this, and I'm going to tell you why you don't need this? What…
845
02:07:01.565 --> 02:07:03.274
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): What can they do?
84602:07:03.275 --> 02:07:05.834Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I do think that that would be a question for the fire chief.
847
02:07:06.470 --> 02:07:21.799
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): This is different from density bonus law and case law around that. This seems
to be something different, where with density bonus law, like, with them having zero density bonus units,
yet still expanding the project,
84802:07:21.990 --> 02:07:31.730Speaker 1 (Community Hall): there's some case law that we have to rely on there. But here, it's… this is different. This is not density bonus law, this is something else.
849
02:07:31.730 --> 02:07:51.229
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I read that, usually the applicant is supposed to provide the justification to show that there are practical reasons, site constraints, and in this case, they can provide comparative study of different configurations and say that, oh, this other configurations somehow
85002:07:51.270 --> 02:07:57.780Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And it's not feasible with site constraints, but I don't think that our requirement
has…
85102:07:57.930 --> 02:08:00.150Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Is that under the density bodies law?
85202:08:00.155 --> 02:08:02.035Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Under this, language.
853
02:08:02.565 --> 02:08:22.585Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Pardon, there were… there were two bits within the AMMR request. There was one that was referring to the density, and the second one was talking about, basically the existence of Evilich Court causing a constraint. And I thought that was kind of interesting, because that the right-of-way was dedicated in 1969,
854
02:08:22.585 --> 02:08:26.875
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And it, it could be vacated by the city.
85502:08:26.875 --> 02:08:34.195Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And so if the issue is Avilich Court is causing this problem, we could vacate the
85602:08:34.195 --> 02:08:43.144Speaker 1 (Community Hall): vacate the street. I think it would be, subject to the Surplus Land Act at that point. But it seems like there was an alternative there.
857
02:08:47.985 --> 02:08:57.594
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): But going back to the original question, what leeway do you have for those requests where you could actually say, we disagree with this?
85802:08:59.260 --> 02:09:08.289Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, as far as the justification is concerned, it is presented, and when it comes down to it, the, mitigations that were offered are the ones that we evaluated. Chief Fox is,
859
02:09:09.300 --> 02:09:14.420Speaker 10 (Community Hall): going to… respond to this one? I may add something when he's done.
86002:09:16.140 --> 02:09:19.220Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I know you're really looking for us to…
861
02:09:20.060 --> 02:09:25.060
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Focus on the justification from the applicant, but…
86202:09:25.100 --> 02:09:42.769Speaker 9 (Community Hall): the fact of the matter is that our focus is on the second half of that 1276, and we're focused on, are they providing the same practical effect by reducing structure-to-structure ignition? So, you know, as we stated before.
863
02:09:42.820 --> 02:09:49.869Speaker 9 (Community Hall): The design choice is that of the applicant, and that is not our focus, so we…
86402:09:50.310 --> 02:10:05.830Speaker 9 (Community Hall): do not weigh in on, questions like, can the project be modified in such and such way to meet the effect? And I know that's what you're asking, but the reality is that
865
02:10:06.200 --> 02:10:11.660Speaker 9 (Community Hall): For our process, our process is to not… evaluate…
86602:10:12.290 --> 02:10:17.769Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Those design constraints and our processes to make sure that
867
02:10:18.080 --> 02:10:24.769
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): The justification used is meeting the intent of both that
86802:10:24.930 --> 02:10:33.679
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): structure-to-structure ignition reduction, and the definition of same practical
effect. So that's what we're focused on. We don't…
86902:10:34.230 --> 02:10:44.480Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Weigh in on… Whether the justification listed by the applicant is…
870
02:10:45.350 --> 02:10:54.110Speaker 9 (Community Hall): is, warranted through a study, which I know is what you're asking for, or what the Vice Mayor was asking for.
87102:10:54.115 --> 02:11:09.134Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, sort of. Is there ever a level of request that is… that would be deemed
unreasonable, such that they want to go down to 4 feet, and they've got this special material that is super
flame…
87202:11:09.275 --> 02:11:20.334Speaker 1 (Community Hall): resistant, and they don't even need to have a sprinkler there, and they're not going to put any windows. Is there… is there any request that becomes too unreasonable?
873
02:11:20.755 --> 02:11:25.015
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I guess in that case, it would be, can you get the ladder to fit in there?
87402:11:25.615 --> 02:11:31.185Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Yeah, so we… we, exception requests are…
87502:11:31.615 --> 02:11:37.054
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): new for the city of Cupertino, because of the newly adopted
87602:11:37.155 --> 02:11:53.084Speaker 9 (Community Hall): very high fire hazard severity zones. However, they're not new in the other jurisdictions that we serve, so we do see a number of exception requests in those other jurisdictions, and we do have history of both approving
877
02:11:53.155 --> 02:11:59.885
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): and denying exception requests. So there are cases where we do not approve
exception requests.
87802:12:00.060 --> 02:12:03.590Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Is it because of the material, or the setback request?
879
02:12:04.690 --> 02:12:11.139
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): It depends on the specific situation. That's why we go back to the case-by-
case.
88002:12:11.340 --> 02:12:24.760
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): And to be honest with you, most of the exception requests that we deal with
are more in the realm of access, so we're looking at different requirements there.
88102:12:25.150 --> 02:12:35.240Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, and that's something that we could, find out more information about,
when you've made these denials,
88202:12:35.580 --> 02:12:40.610Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I'll take that offline, because I'd like to see… I'd like to see what denials look like.
88302:12:42.040 --> 02:12:52.489
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay. Through the Mayor, one quick last question. This is to our city attorney,
and this is… and thank you, Fire… County Fire, for being here. This is not for you any… oh, you got one
more point? Go ahead.
88402:12:52.490 --> 02:13:04.569Speaker 10 (Community Hall): was denied. I mean, well, there were certain aspects that they came back through comments, so that effectively, while we were in that process, were us saying, you haven't met the line, or you haven't met the line yet. So, so…
885
02:13:04.750 --> 02:13:24.470
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): in this process, they did experience that dynamic, and that, no, you did not make it, this is what you need to do. Which also does explain that turnaround, because that is a hammerhead, not a bulb. It is a design feature, and it doesn't actually have function, and it's really, it is… it can be very confusing, so I understand your position on that one.
886
02:13:25.140 --> 02:13:32.550
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I understand hammerheads. This is a question not for… this is to our city
attorney, I just want to make sure, and to the team on the other end. So…
88702:13:32.750 --> 02:13:41.570Speaker 5 (Community Hall): From what I understand, normally 4291 is at the permit stage, and under AB130, it's required to exempt us from CEQA, so what do we do if we didn't get an evaluation on 4291?
888
02:13:41.830 --> 02:13:53.929
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): how do we exempt it from CEQA? Or look at it to consider exemption from
CEQA? I'll leave that as a question, doesn't have to be answered now, but something later, if you guys can research that, and I'm hoping we can get a bio break.
88902:13:55.530 --> 02:14:01.440Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I believe we have completed the Council questions. We'll take a 5-minute break. Thank you.
890
02:14:03.990 --> 02:14:04.770Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Sorry.
891
02:14:07.890 --> 02:14:08.580Community Hall: Okay.
892
02:26:26.690 --> 02:26:28.149
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): We'll forget all the time.
89302:26:28.150 --> 02:26:28.590Community Hall: Excellent.
89402:26:33.830 --> 02:26:47.209
Community Hall: We're about 45-50 minutes of a comment in person. That was with your time.
895
02:27:06.560 --> 02:27:08.159Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Yeah, that's my apple to focus.
89602:27:08.610 --> 02:27:12.080Community Hall: Excuse me.
897
02:27:15.950 --> 02:27:18.100
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Alright, welcome back, everyone.
89802:27:18.320 --> 02:27:22.170Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Madam City Manager, do we have a report from the applicant?
899
02:27:22.600 --> 02:27:23.300
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): That's…
90002:27:24.620 --> 02:27:28.280Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Ex parte communication. We should…
901
02:27:28.280 --> 02:27:38.969
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Oh, pardon me. Thank you very much for that reminder. Do we have any ex
parte communications, from the council members that you would like to, divulge?
90202:27:39.220 --> 02:27:43.669Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, Councilmember Mohan. Yeah, I have spoken to the…
903
02:27:45.080 --> 02:27:50.359
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): I have spoken to the developers a few times, as well as to many groups of
residents.
90402:27:51.090 --> 02:28:00.760Speaker 1 (Community Hall): All right, thank you. I did speak to the developers prior to, the March 17th
meeting, but not since then. Councilmember Fruen?
905
02:28:01.940 --> 02:28:05.980
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I've spoken with both the developers and a number of neighbors.
90602:28:06.170 --> 02:28:06.910Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay?
907
02:28:06.910 --> 02:28:08.619
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. Any others?
90802:28:09.045 --> 02:28:12.375Speaker 5 (Community Hall): have the same. I've spoken with the Summerhill team as well, some neighbors.
909
02:28:13.040 --> 02:28:25.770
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yeah, and I've spoken to the Summerhill team, thank you, and also, both
before the March 17th, and I met them twice afterwards on…
91002:28:26.030 --> 02:28:30.069Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Then, also, some of the neighbor… neighbors.
911
02:28:30.740 --> 02:28:33.410
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): All right, thank you, Madam City Manager.
91202:28:34.720 --> 02:28:42.130Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you, Mayor. The applicant does have a presentation, and at this time, I will invite them, to the… to the mic.
913
02:28:45.670 --> 02:28:48.970
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Thank you. We do need the slides, we do.
91402:28:52.770 --> 02:28:54.249Speaker 3 (Community Hall): She has them prepared.
91502:28:54.760 --> 02:28:59.349
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Luke, I can… I can pull them up on the staff computer.
91602:29:01.810 --> 02:29:03.530Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So this is 8 minutes.
91702:29:04.000 --> 02:29:04.390Community Hall: Doom.
918
02:29:05.350 --> 02:29:09.349
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): And it's… the applicant will have 8 minutes to present.
91902:29:14.090 --> 02:29:17.980Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So we need to have the timer reset from 3 to 8 minutes, please.
920
02:29:19.400 --> 02:29:21.330Community Hall: Yeah.
92102:29:22.350 --> 02:29:23.730Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Just waiting for the clerk.
922
02:29:24.660 --> 02:29:29.299
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Just trying to… Figure out how to get it into presentation mode.
92302:29:35.410 --> 02:29:36.090Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Fair.
924
02:29:38.454 --> 02:29:40.124
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, video.
92502:29:42.830 --> 02:29:44.109Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Good evening, Mayor Moore.
926
02:29:44.110 --> 02:29:45.489
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): and City Council members.
92702:29:45.630 --> 02:29:46.380Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you for the.
92802:29:46.385 --> 02:29:47.894
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Opportunity to speak with you.
929
02:29:48.055 --> 02:29:50.715Speaker 10 (Community Hall): My name is Austin Lin, Development Manager for.
93002:29:50.715 --> 02:29:51.625Speaker 1 (Community Hall): real homes.
931
02:29:51.875 --> 02:29:54.035
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I'm joined tonight by Steve Bull.
93202:29:54.040 --> 02:30:00.290
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Vice President of Development, Kevin Eberhini, our Senior Vice President of
Development, Members of our design team.
93302:30:00.700 --> 02:30:05.970Speaker 11 (Community Hall): As well as our legal counsel, Margo Bradish from Cox Castle, who will say a
few words after me.
93402:30:06.570 --> 02:30:16.899Speaker 11 (Community Hall): We've received many questions from the general public and City Council regarding the project's qualification for the AB130 CEQA exemption, fire safety, and evacuation
93502:30:17.000 --> 02:30:23.000
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): which we have added in our responses to questions and are addressing in this
presentation. Next slide, please.
93602:30:25.770 --> 02:30:36.739Speaker 11 (Community Hall): To begin, this site, although within a very high fire hazard zone, qualifies for the AB130 CEQA exemption by meeting Public Resources Code Sections 4290,
937
02:30:36.740 --> 02:30:46.750
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): 51182, which is the equivalent of 4291, which applies to state responsibility
areas, and Chapter 7A of the Building Code.
93802:30:47.350 --> 02:31:00.549Speaker 11 (Community Hall): To ensure full compliance, we retained a third-party fire consultant, Jensen Hughes, who verified that the project satisfies all applicable fire code requirements necessary to qualify for the AB130 CEQA exemption.
939
02:31:00.920 --> 02:31:03.189
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Their letter is part of the record.
94002:31:03.740 --> 02:31:20.129Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Moreover, the city's CEQA consultant, David J. Powers, also independently confirmed in their memo within the staff report that the site qualifies for all criteria prescribed by the AB130
CEQA exemption, including the requirements of a very high fire hazard zone.
941
02:31:20.290 --> 02:31:21.539Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
94202:31:22.970 --> 02:31:35.860Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Regarding the 30-foot setback required by code, subsection ble allows
reductions of the 30-foot setback due to density and other site constraints if an alternative method to reduce
structure-to-structure ignition is incorporated.
94302:31:36.240 --> 02:31:43.800Speaker 11 (Community Hall): The fire department revered and approved these items as having the same
practical effect as a 30-foot setback. Next slide, please.
944
02:31:44.960 --> 02:31:47.800
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): We've also received questions about evacuation.
94502:31:48.030 --> 02:31:56.460Speaker 11 (Community Hall): We want to reiterate that the City does not have any objective standards allowing for a project-level evacuation study in which to base an analysis.
946
02:31:56.980 --> 02:32:04.799
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): During community outreach, a neighbor submitted his own study, raising questions about evacuation conditions in the area
94702:32:05.480 --> 02:32:10.230Speaker 11 (Community Hall): In order to better understand the assumptions and conclusions presented in
that study.
948
02:32:10.360 --> 02:32:18.790Speaker 11 (Community Hall): And for our own internal planning purposes, we voluntarily commissioned Hexagon Transportation Consultants to conduct an analysis.
94902:32:19.500 --> 02:32:35.620
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): The hexagon analysis concludes the number of homes within the proposed
project would constitute approximately 3.6% of the total number of homes within the vicinity that use the
same egress routes, and would result in a minimal increase in estimated evacuation time.
95002:32:35.630 --> 02:32:39.609Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Approximately 2 minutes when compared to existing conditions.
951
02:32:40.100 --> 02:32:47.819
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Recently, the city also commissioned A citywide evacuation route capacity
assessment by Fair and Pierce.
95202:32:48.170 --> 02:32:53.200Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Section 1.2 of the assessment describes it as… as it's…
953
02:32:53.570 --> 02:32:56.829
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Describes its limitations as a planning-level assessment
95402:32:57.350 --> 02:33:04.219Speaker 11 (Community Hall): That is not based upon any established mythology, and cannot guarantee the effectiveness of the information.
955
02:33:04.740 --> 02:33:11.400
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): The assessment does not evaluate the project's impact, nor does it establish a
defined threshold for safety failure.
95602:33:11.660 --> 02:33:27.060Speaker 11 (Community Hall): However, the report identifies targeted strategies across the supply, demand, and information categories, and this project directly supports their implementation by contributing $209,000
in transportation impact fees.
95702:33:27.490 --> 02:33:33.370Speaker 11 (Community Hall): The City can deploy this money for the strategies recommended by Fair and Pierce. Next slide, please.
95802:33:35.830 --> 02:33:39.349
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): The project will provide many important public benefits for the community.
95902:33:39.890 --> 02:33:51.110Speaker 11 (Community Hall): First, the project will provide 51 new homes, contributing to the City's Reno obligations for the sixth housing cycle, and also gives families an opportunity at homeownership in Cupertino.
960
02:33:51.520 --> 02:33:59.540
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Second, the City's designation of the project as a priority housing site
supports the City's goal of firmly furthering fair housing.
96102:33:59.750 --> 02:34:08.749Speaker 11 (Community Hall): The project site is the only priority housing site within West Cupertino, within walking distance of three schools within Cupertino's award-winning school district.
962
02:34:08.970 --> 02:34:13.520
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Third, we're proposing to designate 10 of the units as below-market rate
minutes.
96302:34:14.350 --> 02:34:24.839Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Fourth, we've had, in good faith, had ongoing conversations with the fence line neighbors in the city regarding proposed two-story homes adjacent to the existing residence.
964
02:34:25.070 --> 02:34:31.319
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): We submitted a proposed condition of approval to the City for how these two-story homes could get implemented with the project.
96502:34:31.880 --> 02:34:32.900Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Finally.
966
02:34:33.110 --> 02:34:53.059
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): The project will contribute approximately $2 million in park fees, $569,000 in school fees, $209,000 in transportation impact fees, and a surplus of $48,000 annually to the city's general fund from estimated property tax, sales tax, and parcel transfer taxes, as verified by the city's third-party consultant.
967
02:34:53.330 --> 02:34:54.570
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
96802:34:55.740 --> 02:35:04.390Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Additionally, we respectfully request that condition of approval number 85 be modified, as it adds unnecessary truck haul route restrictions.
969
02:35:04.910 --> 02:35:20.020
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): The project will fully comply with the city's existing requirements under Cupertino Municipal Code Section 11.32, which already prohibits truck traffic from 7.30 to 9.30 a.m. and 2 to 4 p.m. on streets near schools.
97002:35:20.510 --> 02:35:33.110
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): The additional restrictions would effectively prevent construction vehicles from
using alternative access routes for nearly half the working day due to the inclusion of Linda Vista Drive,
which in turn would materially extend the construction schedule.
97102:35:33.890 --> 02:35:37.690Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Lastly, with respect to the proposed trail condition.
972
02:35:38.440 --> 02:35:58.370
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): We want to be clear that this improvement is not an objective standard and is
not a requirement for the project. However, Summerhill remains willing to construct the trail if Summerhill
receives credit for the park in lieu fees persuade to condition of approval number 6, should the city and the community determine that the trail connection is a desired amenity.
97302:35:58.660 --> 02:35:59.950Speaker 11 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
974
02:36:01.020 --> 02:36:05.910
Speaker 11 (Community Hall): At this time, we would like to have Margo Brainish, our Land Use Council, say a few words.
97502:36:11.270 --> 02:36:22.819Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Good evening. I'm going to just focus on two quick issues. We have two letters that we've submitted to you that provide the factual and legal support for these points, but I just want to
highlight two key points. The first is with respect.
97602:36:22.825 --> 02:36:26.065Speaker 12 (Community Hall): to the applicability of AB130 to the project.
97702:36:26.245 --> 02:36:31.865Speaker 12 (Community Hall): There's been a lot of discussion tonight about the AB130 code requirements
and very
97802:36:31.895 --> 02:36:48.825Speaker 12 (Community Hall): high-fire zones. You should have in your packet a letter that your city received from HCD a couple of days ago, I think on the 30th, in which HCD instructed the city to assume compliance with those codes for purposes of its AB130 determination.
979
02:36:49.705 --> 02:36:56.104Speaker 12 (Community Hall): code compliance will be verified in the ordinary course post-itlement, so I think HCD's been pretty clear.
98002:36:56.275 --> 02:37:13.075Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Councilmember Wang in answering that question that you posed at the end.
And so, all this code discussion is essentially premature for AB130 purposes. Very important, not saying no,
you can't talk about it, but for purposes of AB130 compliance, it's not a consideration tonight.
98102:37:13.435 --> 02:37:28.934Speaker 12 (Community Hall): The second thing I'd like to state is that the HAA requires that a project like this that is consistent with objective standards be approved by the Council unless there's a preponderance of evidence showing a specific and adverse effect on health and safety.
982
02:37:29.275 --> 02:37:48.295
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): For this project, you've seen a staff report indicating compliance with
objective standards. As noted, the City does not have an objective standard-related evacuation, and as a result, there's not a preponderance of evidence of a specific adverse health and safety impact, and the Council must approve the project.
98302:37:48.295 --> 02:37:56.954
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): We've outlined in detail in the letter the HAA remedies that are under new
law, AB712 and others imposing,
98402:37:57.435 --> 02:37:59.384Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Unlike a typical developer.
98502:37:59.715 --> 02:38:16.975
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): unlike a typical challenge by a neighbor opposing a project where the
developer is likely to be paying the attorney's fees if the city loses. In this circumstance, if the city
disapproves and is found to have done so wrongly, it's the city that will be paying the attorney's fees for the
challenger.
98602:38:17.025 --> 02:38:28.245Speaker 12 (Community Hall): In addition to minimum fines of $10,000 a unit, and potential for a factor of 5 of those fines if there's been fire violations or bad faith. Thank you.
987
02:38:28.250 --> 02:38:34.030
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Your time is up. Thank you. Thank you. So do we have any Council clarifying questions at this time?
988
02:38:41.690 --> 02:38:43.100Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Councilmember Fruen.
989
02:38:44.430 --> 02:38:52.949
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Yes, so in the course of our conversation earlier with staff, there were a
number of concerns that were raised about
99002:38:53.150 --> 02:38:55.940Speaker 8 (Community Hall): The environmental conditions on the site.
991
02:38:56.080 --> 02:39:12.720
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And I don't know that staff have had a lot of opportunity to review some of
that information. Some of it may be more available to the applicant, so I would really like to hear from the
applicant on those particular matters, specifically the, the USTs and so forth.
99202:39:17.060 --> 02:39:19.780Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Hi, good evening, council members. Thank you for hearing me.
993
02:39:19.785 --> 02:39:26.575
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Steve Bull, Vice President of Development, Summerhill Homes. I tried to get
most of the questions as quickly as I could, so I…
99402:39:26.895 --> 02:39:31.914Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Bear with me a little bit. There was a question about an auto business on the site.
995
02:39:32.085 --> 02:39:47.865
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): That was, I think it was 2002 to 2008. That was an off-site or an auto business in San Jose, Ed Rosenberry. It was one of the tenants, and he used this as his mailing address, just a clarification on that one.
99602:39:48.335 --> 02:39:54.245Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Regarding the backfill of the underground storage tanks, if I understood it
correctly.
99702:39:54.475 --> 02:40:12.335Speaker 13 (Community Hall): asked if there was oversight on the backfill when those were removed. There was. NGO, the geotechnical engineer for the project, observed the backfill and recorded it, and that was part of the closure report, and we actually submitted that to the city as a building permit for the backfill.
998
02:40:13.715 --> 02:40:19.204
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I think there was a question about, Chapter 17.
99902:40:19.325 --> 02:40:20.694Speaker 13 (Community Hall): in the Munich code.
100002:40:20.975 --> 02:40:26.025Speaker 13 (Community Hall): We actually had, we've looked at this, and this is actually a
1001
02:40:26.585 --> 02:40:27.954
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): We didn't have any of them.
100202:40:28.505 --> 02:40:35.974Speaker 13 (Community Hall): we didn't find anything. I think my attorney can probably answer this one a little bit better than us. The way we read that code is, if you find anything.
1003
02:40:36.595 --> 02:40:40.455
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Then you have to go through that process you described with the agencies.
100402:40:41.355 --> 02:40:44.045Speaker 13 (Community Hall): You wanna take it, Andrew? I'm happy to take it.
1005
02:40:45.760 --> 02:40:51.789
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Good evening, for the record, Andrew Fogg, also with Cox Castle, and
Nicholson, assisting with the project.
100602:40:51.800 --> 02:40:54.540Speaker 14 (Community Hall): So, I…
1007
02:40:54.720 --> 02:41:11.680
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Honorable Mayor, your comment is correct. There are certain things that have
to be complied with prior to approval of the project. Here we have complied with those. The first one is the
preparation of a Phase 1. The second is preparation of a Phase 2. Section 1704-040B,
100802:41:11.680 --> 02:41:24.499Speaker 14 (Community Hall): talks about the results of the Phase 2, and it says if the Phase 2 identifies no unacceptable or potentially unacceptable health risks associated with the RECs, then no further action is required. If there is.
1009
02:41:24.500 --> 02:41:34.609Speaker 14 (Community Hall): an unacceptable, potentially unacceptable health risk, then you get into the section of 1704-050B, which requires soil remediation.
101002:41:34.650 --> 02:41:43.960Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Prior to issuance of a permit for a project that allows, ground-disturbing
activities here, the Phase 2 didn't identify anything along those lines.
101102:41:43.960 --> 02:41:59.179Speaker 14 (Community Hall): So we don't feel we get into that later section, 1704-050, more fully within the 1704-040B, which, we've complied with, and so we feel like we've satisfied the city's municipal code on
those points.
1012
02:41:59.180 --> 02:41:59.680
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Did…
101302:41:59.680 --> 02:42:19.020Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Did you look at… so there was a notation that there had been a leaking underground storage tank, and there's nothing regarding that on Geotracker. Did you review the location of
that? Were there soils… was there soil testing at that location for the prior,
1014
02:42:19.040 --> 02:42:21.580Speaker 1 (Community Hall): For the prior removals.
101502:42:21.780 --> 02:42:27.759Speaker 1 (Community Hall): You mean before… Or did you just look at the two underground storage tank
areas that you,
1016
02:42:27.880 --> 02:42:30.260Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Had those removals for.
101702:42:31.220 --> 02:42:40.560Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Might get a little bit of help, our environmental consultants on the phone. I'm
certainly more familiar with the underground storage tanks. The above-ground tanks, I think you're referring
to… no?
101802:42:40.565 --> 02:42:58.595Speaker 1 (Community Hall): there were two underground storage tanks that were previously removed, and one was a leaking underground storage tank, which I would think would be a recognized environmental condition, and you also have the two pits, which appear to have not been,
1019
02:42:58.775 --> 02:43:23.335
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): graded with a city permit, and you're not allowed to have your own private on-
site landfill. That's not allowed in Cupertino, and we don't know exactly what's in it. So, having a statement in the report that says it's likely something, when I'm looking at drums of hazardous material, which I was not,
102002:43:23.335 --> 02:43:36.474Speaker 1 (Community Hall): It was not identified, as far as I know, what was in all of those drums, which
there are photographs of. And then you also had the above-ground storage tank with the 300 gallons
capacity for diesel
102102:43:36.475 --> 02:43:42.225Speaker 1 (Community Hall): fuel. So all of this on the soil has a potential of having it seep in.
102202:43:43.395 --> 02:44:06.284
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Can we get… Angela? Because it would have been my pref… it would have
been my preference that you followed Chapter 17 and went to Santa Clara County Department of
Environmental Health, and you provided them with a, like, a soil management, program, and that you did your soil testing according to
1023
02:44:06.645 --> 02:44:31.565
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): them, because they're the Certified Unified Program Agency, not the fire
department, so you went about this in a way that's not standard. So United Furniture, for instance, went into
regulatory oversight for their dry cleaner cleanup. Even The Rise went to Santa Clara County DEH for regulatory oversight of their cleanup.
102402:44:31.705 --> 02:44:39.535Speaker 1 (Community Hall): This seems like a… it just feels a bit like an end runaround to not end up on Geotracker. That's to be honest.
1025
02:44:39.945 --> 02:44:45.235Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so I appreciate the comment. We did a Phase 1 and a Phase 2.
102602:44:45.240 --> 02:44:52.939Speaker 16 (Community Hall): we had A third-party environmental consultant do a review of those reports.
1027
02:44:52.940 --> 02:45:07.409
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Then we submitted those to the city. The city forwarded those to the city's third-party consultant. The Phase 1 and Phase 2 found no contaminants. They did soil testing at the soil. There was no contaminants. The…
102802:45:07.415 --> 02:45:10.055Speaker 1 (Community Hall): On the soil, pardon me, on what soil?
1029
02:45:10.530 --> 02:45:18.870Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Within the site, they… they investigated for pesticides, and they also investigated to see if there was any leaks with the two
103002:45:18.930 --> 02:45:35.840Speaker 16 (Community Hall): underground storage tanks that they had found. They did soil testing once the
tanks were removed, they did soil testing for those tanks. There was no cont… I'll get to the other tanks
you're referring to, but they did the testing, all the information was forwarded to the city, the city's third-
party consultant reviewed it.
103102:45:35.900 --> 02:45:52.779Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Based on their review, they saw nothing that they felt the city's requirements, required, our interaction with any outside agency. That went through our planner and the city's third-party consultant.
1032
02:45:52.915 --> 02:46:14.494
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so it would have been my preference that you went through DEH, and that the area where all of those drums are kept, and there's an old vehicle as well, we've had this happen in… on other sites, that there's dirt there, and that there's actually spills, and it needs to be cleaned up.
103302:46:14.495 --> 02:46:39.175Speaker 1 (Community Hall): particularly concerned about the fact that there were multiple drums, full of hazardous waste, that was… that was removed instead of having it characterized by… by DEH, or… I don't think the fire department characterized it. Do you have somewhere in your reports something that, has each
one of these drums tagged and the contents
103402:46:39.175 --> 02:46:46.715Speaker 1 (Community Hall): explained. So, like, there's a photograph which… which is showing this area, and it just… it looks really bad.
103502:46:47.145 --> 02:46:58.574
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): You want to address that? I mean, these are old, rusted, containers that…
single wall, and… and then consider that, it's like, they've also been keeping this in…
103602:46:58.575 --> 02:47:11.965Speaker 1 (Community Hall): what it turns out is a very high-fire severity zone, so that you've had all this hazardous material kept, and I… and I still can't fathom why they needed 4 underground storage tanks and a 300-gallon above-ground tank.
1037
02:47:12.415 --> 02:47:28.154
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Well, I do know during their Phase 1 and Phase 2 investigation part there,
they did identify the tanks that you're referring to. There were no leakage in the soil. They documented that. That was reviewed by the city's third-party consultant. For the two.
103802:47:28.155 --> 02:47:33.115Speaker 1 (Community Hall): tanks, but there was a link… there was a leaking underground storage tank,
and that…
1039
02:47:33.245 --> 02:47:43.914Speaker 1 (Community Hall): probably should have ended up on Geotracker, and there apparently isn't a record of the removal of those two tanks.
104002:47:43.915 --> 02:47:50.254
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): There was a little bit of an inconsistency on the underground tanks. I think I
was gonna… I'm gonna cite the actual environmental report.
104102:47:50.385 --> 02:47:54.084Speaker 13 (Community Hall): Geophysical survey identified evidence of two
104202:47:54.225 --> 02:48:06.725
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): potential existing USTs at the site, one in the northwest portion, one in the
east portion, which correlate with the two locations of the two known USTs identified at the site by the
property management during the Phase 1 ESA.
104302:48:06.915 --> 02:48:15.104
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): No evidence of additional USTs was identified at the site. Therefore, the
historical reference to additional USTs is considered incorrect.
104402:48:16.540 --> 02:48:21.389Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Well, the EDR report indicates that there's… there were four.
1045
02:48:21.570 --> 02:48:28.550Speaker 1 (Community Hall): on, on the site. And it still doesn't address the fact that you've got the two, on-site,
104602:48:29.270 --> 02:48:32.259Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Not permitted landfill areas.
1047
02:48:33.250 --> 02:48:42.179Speaker 16 (Community Hall): So, any landfill areas will be investigated by the geotechnical engineer. The report will be submitted to the city.
104802:48:42.180 --> 02:48:54.750Speaker 16 (Community Hall): the city's third party will review it, and once that's final, whatever mitigation
measures come up gets implemented. That's the same way that's been done on our Stevens Creek project,
or any other project that we've done.
104902:48:54.860 --> 02:49:05.080Speaker 16 (Community Hall): That phase of investigation happens after the tentative map when we're doing our working drawings. I agree with you, it needs to be done, and it will be done.
1050
02:49:05.085 --> 02:49:15.685
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so what I didn't see in the resolution was, in the agenda packet on page
2293,
105102:49:15.705 --> 02:49:27.915Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And, thank your council members for, the amount of work that this is required. But there is a, Item 7, Environmental Remediation Ongoing Monitoring,
1052
02:49:28.025 --> 02:49:42.614
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): paragraph that shows up in the future agenda item, which is Mary, that this
does not show up in our resolution. So I did a search of the entire packet, and it only shows up
105302:49:42.615 --> 02:50:07.025Speaker 1 (Community Hall): under Mary's resolution, and it is something that is, I think we're deficient in ours, and it should be spelled out. And it refers to the environmental remediation and ongoing monitoring.
So this says, prior to the issuance of any building permits for residential construction on the site, the
applicant shall obtain written clearance from the Santa Clara County Department of Environmental Health.
105402:50:07.025 --> 02:50:08.565Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Not the fire department.
105502:50:08.565 --> 02:50:17.195Speaker 1 (Community Hall): DEH, the Certified Unified Program Agency, confirming the site's been adequately investigated in remediation for contamination.
1056
02:50:17.635 --> 02:50:22.094
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay? So that's something I would want in our conditions, and it's… I'm not seeing it.
105702:50:22.625 --> 02:50:30.235Speaker 16 (Community Hall): My understanding has been in working with staff and the city's third-party consultant, that when a contaminant is found on site.
1058
02:50:30.635 --> 02:50:41.325Speaker 16 (Community Hall): the process you just outlined takes place, but contaminants were not found on site. That's why it has not been gone to, Department of Environmental Health.
105902:50:41.785 --> 02:50:58.155Speaker 1 (Community Hall): you… but you had drums, and… and even with the underground storage tanks,
we don't know if… because it was the consultant hiring their own person to do the ESA, I should say it was
the applicant hiring their own consultant to do the ESA,
106002:50:58.635 --> 02:51:20.515Speaker 1 (Community Hall): there is the potential where, because the city wasn't the lead agency requiring it, it's just being given the ESA reports to evaluate, that there could be something missed, and we did have something missed. So, Powers did not talk about the, the two landfill sites at all. And so, when they had done their report,
1061
02:51:20.515 --> 02:51:23.334
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): That was completely missing in there.
106202:51:24.055 --> 02:51:26.894Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And I do think that that's a defect.
1063
02:51:28.925 --> 02:51:29.715
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay.
106402:51:30.175 --> 02:51:32.735Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. Vice Mayor?
1065
02:51:33.235 --> 02:51:34.065
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Steve.
106602:51:34.730 --> 02:51:36.110Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Hi.
106702:51:37.780 --> 02:51:40.430Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So… let me find…
1068
02:51:43.360 --> 02:51:54.100
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Oh, the… so, regarding the trail access, I think the staff said it… the applicant
proposed it. I thought you guys…
106902:51:54.250 --> 02:51:58.310Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Don't really have a preference for the trail access.
1070
02:51:58.855 --> 02:52:16.695
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): So, the trail access came about with some members of the public reaching
out to us, saying that they would like us to investigate whether a trail access could be done between our project and the trail behind our project. We talked with staff, and staff
107102:52:16.875 --> 02:52:31.284Speaker 16 (Community Hall): acknowledge that that's not a requirement for the project. There's no objective standard to provide such a connection. We said there seems to be interest. We've had two
community meetings, and we've had many individual meetings with, the surrounding neighborhood.
107202:52:31.315 --> 02:52:45.404Speaker 16 (Community Hall): So the correspondence was, you can draw a detail, you can show it to us, and you can see whether it can work, and what the cost for the trail would be. So we did a preliminary design, we submitted it to the city.
1073
02:52:45.465 --> 02:52:48.584
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): We said we are neutral, Summerhill Homes.
107402:52:49.815 --> 02:52:58.835Speaker 16 (Community Hall): is not taking any position on this trail. We have provided design, we got cost estimates, I believe it was $377,000 to construct the trail.
1075
02:52:58.835 --> 02:53:14.585
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): We told staff if the council desires to have this trail, we can build it as part of
our project and get reimbursed for the cost of it through our, park fees. If the city doesn't want it, it doesn't
get constructed. Again, Summerhill is just trying to accommodate
107602:53:14.745 --> 02:53:18.845Speaker 16 (Community Hall): the comments that we've received from the residents, that's it.
1077
02:53:18.845 --> 02:53:23.285
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): You hope you don't want to cover the cost of constructing it.
107802:53:23.690 --> 02:53:35.329
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): It's not a project. Yeah, it's not a component of our project. Again, I think it
benefits the city. If the city chooses to want to have this connection, it can benefit the city
107902:53:35.440 --> 02:53:47.599Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Because we can typically build it much less expen… much less… at a much
less cost than the city can. So this is a mechanism, potentially, for the city if you desire to have such a trail.
108002:53:47.720 --> 02:54:06.170Speaker 16 (Community Hall): But again, for us, we're not taking any position on it. I was asked at several of my individual meetings with council members and planning commissioners, well, would Summerhill like to have it? I would tell you, typically, when you have this kind of a bike trail that goes through a residential project, and it goes between
1081
02:54:06.490 --> 02:54:22.599
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): units that are so close to each other, our buyers don't like it because there's
impact. However, if the city wants to have this trail, we're happy to build it. It's not… we're not advocating for it, we're just trying to be neutral to let the city decide what they want. Okay.
108202:54:22.605 --> 02:54:29.765Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Thank you. And regarding the truck access to the Linda Vista Drive, so, you
are…
1083
02:54:30.235 --> 02:54:41.945Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The request from the Planning Commission is to limit truck access. Is that part of the conditions of approval? Right now, so you would like that removed?
108402:54:41.945 --> 02:54:49.524
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): with the planning commissioners, and a couple of the planning commissioners
asked if we could volunteer to…
108502:54:49.775 --> 02:54:53.404Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Have the trucks not have access.
108602:54:53.515 --> 02:54:57.234
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): through… Through the surrounding neighborhood.
1087
02:54:57.275 --> 02:55:13.055Speaker 16 (Community Hall): during certain hours, in particular when the school was in session, we check with staff, and staff let us know with Public Works. They let us know that the city already has an ordinance that covers the hours where you can't have truck routes
1088
02:55:13.055 --> 02:55:31.965
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): going on certain streets. We met with the planning commissioners that had
requested this, and we told them there is an ordinance. Obviously, we're more than happy to follow the
ordinance. So, during the planning commission hearing, the planning… one of the planning commissioners said, we want to go ahead… we have talked to the applicant, and we want to go ahead and
1089
02:55:32.005 --> 02:55:41.894Speaker 16 (Community Hall): make sure that this ordinance is followed. In addition to that, they added a couple of streets. One of them was the frontage of the project, which is Linda Vista.
1090
02:55:42.155 --> 02:55:46.744
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): That's not part of the city ordinance. If you add Linda Vista.
109102:55:47.145 --> 02:56:06.265Speaker 16 (Community Hall): to the hours of non-operation for those trucks, you are going to be extending the construction period for this project quite a bit, because you're not going to be able to get access for approximately 4 hours a day on Linda Vista. Linda Vista is not one of the streets that's identified by the city
1092
02:56:06.305 --> 02:56:07.375
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): as…
109302:56:07.555 --> 02:56:14.485Speaker 16 (Community Hall): a road that needs to be restrict… to have restricted hours. So our request is to follow the city
1094
02:56:14.715 --> 02:56:22.894
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): ordinance, and followed the hours that they've stipulated for the streets that they've stipulated, not Linda Vista itself.
109502:56:22.895 --> 02:56:31.505Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The question is for the recommended action, does that include or not include the… Frontage of Linda Vista Drive.
1096
02:56:32.285 --> 02:56:33.445Speaker 4 (Community Hall): for the truck.
109702:56:34.085 --> 02:56:36.235Speaker 4 (Community Hall): excess limitation. The current.
1098
02:56:36.240 --> 02:56:36.830
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): condition.
109902:56:36.835 --> 02:56:42.815Speaker 7 (Community Hall): has the limitation on Linda Vista Drive as recommended by the Planning Commission.
1100
02:56:42.815 --> 02:56:47.315
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Okay, so the applicant would like that limitation removed.
110102:56:47.315 --> 02:56:51.714
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): be reduced to what the current code says, which again does not include Linda
Vista Drive.
110202:56:51.945 --> 02:56:52.915Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Okay.
1103
02:56:55.350 --> 02:56:58.810Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And, the Euro…
110402:56:59.140 --> 02:57:08.230Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Thank you for coming up with a potential two-story option for five of the units adjoining to the neighbor.
1105
02:57:08.340 --> 02:57:13.149Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Could you talk a little more about that? Do you have, sure, so…
110602:57:13.155 --> 02:57:17.734Speaker 16 (Community Hall): In our meetings with council members, we were asked for
1107
02:57:18.145 --> 02:57:22.984
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): several concessions. Councilmember Fruen asked us, can we…
110802:57:24.165 --> 02:57:35.455Speaker 16 (Community Hall): can we please try to find a way to do two-story units for the, five, five, units that were abutting existing residences?
1109
02:57:35.585 --> 02:57:51.284
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): It is a substantial financial head to the project, but in a compromise, we agreed with Councilmember Fruen, yes, we will go ahead and provide that as a voluntary condition to the project. We have submitted that voluntary condition.
111002:57:51.495 --> 02:58:08.235Speaker 16 (Community Hall): It has several stipulations with it. Essentially, we agreed to do that. You have
to read it because it gets very technical, but I'll try to summarize it if I can, but again, the technical terms
are there. We volunteer that
111102:58:08.875 --> 02:58:14.684Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Based on the fire department and the city staff's review of the two-story.
111202:58:14.865 --> 02:58:21.734
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): And making sure that the footprint of the two stories that we have proposed
works within the city.
111302:58:21.905 --> 02:58:24.734Speaker 16 (Community Hall): And a fire department code.
111402:58:25.125 --> 02:58:32.704Speaker 16 (Community Hall): after we spoke with Councilmember Fruen, we also met with staff, and we talked with the fire department, and it became very evident
1115
02:58:32.845 --> 02:58:35.544
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): that… You know, it took us…
111602:58:35.735 --> 02:58:43.905Speaker 16 (Community Hall): over a year to get here, as far as plancheck, and as the fire chief explained, we went through many iterations for them to finally
1117
02:58:44.155 --> 02:58:52.204
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): accept the plans, and the comments that we received is, you want to change a two-story just in one week without us having reviewed it, so…
111802:58:52.515 --> 02:59:07.595Speaker 16 (Community Hall): the caveat that we put in there is that we need to be able to get those approved in order to do that. So that's one, and the second caveat that we have in there, obviously, is if the
project is challenged, we are no longer accepting that voluntary
111902:59:07.795 --> 02:59:14.925Speaker 16 (Community Hall): condition. So, that's in respect to… the two-story and, Councilmember
112002:59:15.115 --> 02:59:20.195Speaker 16 (Community Hall): And we met with you, and you asked us, can you please look to see if you
can do
112102:59:20.435 --> 02:59:33.885Speaker 16 (Community Hall): a non-combustible fence for the perimeter of the site. We said we hadn't proposed that because we have other alternatives. We said, please look at it if you can do it, and we said… we looked at it, we came back to you and said, yes, we can.
1122
02:59:34.235 --> 02:59:37.285
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Do the non-combustible
112302:59:37.855 --> 02:59:47.384Speaker 16 (Community Hall): perimeter fence for the site. So those are the two gifts that we try to do in our meetings with the council members. Pardon, I'm…
1124
02:59:47.385 --> 02:59:54.324
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Pardon, the original plan that I was shown already had two stories on the
perimeter.
112502:59:54.330 --> 02:59:54.880
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Yeah.
1126
02:59:54.885 --> 03:00:03.124
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): The original… not this one, but when you first showed it to me back when you were showing the Staples project, it was stepped down.
112703:00:03.125 --> 03:00:15.504Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Yeah, so that was not the plan that was submitted to the city. Eventually, the
plan that was submitted to the city, it is required to have three-story plans, that's correct. So it did… it
changed. Okay.
112803:00:15.625 --> 03:00:24.275Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Sorry. So it never changed from our formal submittal. What we looked at with you was our preliminary sketch that we did during due diligence, and that's correct.
1129
03:00:25.250 --> 03:00:36.560
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Oh, I think I didn't see that version. So, CTA Attorney, have y'all had time to
look at their conditions for the two-story option? Are they…
113003:00:38.130 --> 03:00:45.059Speaker 2 (Community Hall): We talked about that, and I thought it was Council Direction not to move forward with that process.
1131
03:00:46.130 --> 03:00:49.960
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Where's the… Oh, forgive me.
113203:00:50.280 --> 03:01:00.129Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I spoke with, two council members and understood that, that was, likely not a process that
1133
03:01:00.330 --> 03:01:05.689
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Would be supportable, so we didn't, drill down into the detail of that.
113403:01:06.590 --> 03:01:11.479Speaker 4 (Community Hall): whether the condition for the two-story option is reasonable.
1135
03:01:11.485 --> 03:01:21.325
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Well, reasonable, I mean, it would be legal, but the question is whether, if it's
a question of whether it would be reasonable, I think that would be a council, if I could add to…
113603:01:21.325 --> 03:01:36.014Speaker 16 (Community Hall): that our original two-story, was to get an offset against our… against the BMR to move five of the median to moderate, but after meeting with Council Fruen.
1137
03:01:36.245 --> 03:01:52.965
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): the conversation was, can you just do it? Because it's… it could be
problematic for the city to make an exception to make 5 of the medians into moderate. So, we dropped that request, and we submitted a revised
1138
03:01:53.545 --> 03:02:04.425
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): voluntary condition of approval for the two stories that no longer had that.
So, I'm bringing that up because maybe the council members who said, don't look at it, were looking at it
from that perspective.
113903:02:04.425 --> 03:02:07.195Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I haven't been involved in those discussions.
1140
03:02:08.350 --> 03:02:12.650
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Okay, so the… so you have a revised version. Which was cement.
114103:02:12.655 --> 03:02:14.705Speaker 16 (Community Hall): led to the city, that's correct.
1142
03:02:14.705 --> 03:02:18.444
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): It's, so still 10 below market rate at the…
114303:02:18.445 --> 03:02:24.875Speaker 16 (Community Hall): It does not… have any impact on the BMR units. Okay. Again, we're just trying to do this to…
1144
03:02:26.865 --> 03:02:28.755
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): To work with Council.
114503:02:28.760 --> 03:02:35.240Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yes, but that you would only, consider this option if there is no challenge to the pocket. That's correct.
1146
03:02:35.890 --> 03:02:46.590
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That… that's… I think that's the language of… of this condition for the two-
story. I wonder if the city attorney's office have had a chance to look at that.
114703:02:46.590 --> 03:02:48.929Speaker 2 (Community Hall): No, we have not looked at that. Okay.
1148
03:02:49.630 --> 03:02:50.370
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay.
114903:02:50.500 --> 03:02:52.449Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you, Councilmember Fruen?
1150
03:02:55.180 --> 03:02:58.000Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Yeah, if I could have, Margo back up.
1151
03:03:07.150 --> 03:03:15.189
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): One of the things that was addressed earlier at some length was essentially
how
115203:03:15.380 --> 03:03:31.209Speaker 8 (Community Hall): this project complies with AB130, specifically Public Resources Code 4291, and I would like your take on it, because I know that you've written us at some length on this topic, and I think it would be illuminating.
1153
03:03:31.210 --> 03:03:47.660
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Yes, certainly. So if you look at AB130, where it references, Section 4291, you'll see it lists the provisions. That's the first one listed, and it says Section 4291 of the Public Resources Code or Section 51182 as applicable.
115403:03:47.670 --> 03:03:51.830Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So, 4291 applies in a state responsibility area.
1155
03:03:52.060 --> 03:04:07.489Speaker 12 (Community Hall): 51182 applies in a local responsibility area. This is a local responsibility area, so it's actually 51182 that applies to the project, but they're very similar. They both address defensible space. Those are typical, things that are reviewed at the plan
115603:04:07.530 --> 03:04:15.700
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): stage. So, it would be an acceleration to be trying to demonstrate that now
before those plans have been fully prepared.
115703:04:15.700 --> 03:04:29.559Speaker 12 (Community Hall): It's… that's the reason that HCD has given you guidance that you can assume that the project will comply with the law. You have a fire department and a building department who are very capable, and who just testified this evening that they will not issue permits if those requirements are not met.
1158
03:04:29.560 --> 03:04:34.679
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And so HCD's guidance to you is assume that they will comply, and
115903:04:34.680 --> 03:04:44.500Speaker 12 (Community Hall): rely on your professional experts when the appropriate plans come in to demonstrate compliance. But we did outline in the letter, if you'd like me to go through them.
1160
03:04:44.500 --> 03:04:56.730
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): for the benefit of the public and the rest of the Council, we did outline in the letter, I'm just flipping to the page right now, so I don't have all this memorized, but we did outline, some of the code sections and what they require, and
116103:04:57.050 --> 03:04:59.770Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Those are listed in the letter that we submitted.
1162
03:05:00.500 --> 03:05:05.370
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you. You were also, in the middle of explaining certain of the
116303:05:05.480 --> 03:05:08.440Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Potential remedies that would be available to you.
1164
03:05:08.600 --> 03:05:13.640
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): if the project were denied, and I think that you didn't necessarily get through
all of them. Yeah, I was trying to…
116503:05:13.645 --> 03:05:23.974Speaker 12 (Community Hall): to go quickly, I can… I can slow that down a little bit. So, most councils are used to seeing projects where if the project is approved or denied, and there's a challenge.
1166
03:05:24.085 --> 03:05:34.244
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): the applicant has agreed in advance, as part of the application process, to
indemnify the city for that challenge. That would cover your attorney's fees. Prior to the new housing laws, it was very unusual for cities to be
116703:05:34.245 --> 03:05:47.984Speaker 12 (Community Hall): to have any financial consequences for their action on a project. AB712, the Housing Accountability Act added some penalties a number of years ago, but AB712, which was effective this
year, really, really strengthened
116803:05:47.985 --> 03:05:56.334Speaker 12 (Community Hall): those penalties for cities that violate housing laws. And if there has been warning from the AG's office or
116903:05:56.335 --> 03:06:01.955
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): HCD, which in this case there has been through the letter they sent you,
earlier this week.
117003:06:01.965 --> 03:06:06.154Speaker 12 (Community Hall): That, that an action could violate housing laws, that the,
117103:06:06.235 --> 03:06:25.394
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): any party who's suing, not just the applicant, but HCD, the Attorney General's
Office, any of the YMBI groups that you see, the CBIA, any of them. So I don't mean this by way of threat,
but just explaining to you what could happen. Any of those groups, if they sued and prevailed, that the city
had violated a housing law.
1172
03:06:25.465 --> 03:06:30.964
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): The city would be responsible for that party's attorney's fees. No indemnification from the applicant for that.
1173
03:06:31.045 --> 03:06:50.314
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): The city would be responsible for minimum fines of $10,000 a unit. Those
fines can go higher. That's a minimum in the statute. And then there are two circumstances in which a 5X
multiplier can be applied to those minimum fines. One is if the court finds that the city acted in bad faith in its denial of the project.
117403:06:50.315 --> 03:07:09.155Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And the other is, if the city has previously, violated that same housing law. I don't know what your record is, but let's just assume this would be your first. It would be like your first
strike, so that in that instance, if there was a second strike, you would have those 5X penalties apply at that
time.
117503:07:09.930 --> 03:07:14.600Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Got it. And what would you think ours would be if we had two prior strikes?
117603:07:15.980 --> 03:07:18.770
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): You know, I don't actually know, I don't know if my…
117703:07:19.120 --> 03:07:29.380Speaker 12 (Community Hall): It's still 5. Lifeline. I am not a litigator, so full disclosure, I'm turning to my litigation partner there to let me know, but yeah, so still 5.
117803:07:29.385 --> 03:07:34.625
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And then amongst other remedies is also, obviously, in order to approve the
project. Correct.
117903:07:34.625 --> 03:07:36.884Speaker 12 (Community Hall): Order to approve the project is an unrevenue.
118003:07:36.885 --> 03:07:39.144
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): What about general damages?
118103:07:40.190 --> 03:07:41.660Speaker 12 (Community Hall): So…
118203:07:41.990 --> 03:08:00.740Speaker 12 (Community Hall): damages, like carry costs for the developer, etc. Where those come into play
is if there is a successful… I'm going to play litigator here for a minute, he's gonna correct me if I'm wrong.
If there is a trial court success by the challenger, so the city disapproves, there's litigation, the court says
you disapproved wrongfully.
118303:08:00.740 --> 03:08:04.240
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): If you appeal that decision, you think, you know, we think we were right.
1184
03:08:04.240 --> 03:08:20.759
Speaker 12 (Community Hall): There's now a requirement that you post a bond for the cost, that the applicant will sustain during that time that that appeal is being resolved. So that is the point, if you had to post that bond and went forward with the appeal, where you would have exposure to additional damages beyond the ones that I just described.
1185
03:08:21.030 --> 03:08:26.149
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Got it. Okay. I'll have another question, I think, for Mr. Ibrahimi.
118603:08:27.710 --> 03:08:35.770Speaker 8 (Community Hall): you know, the permissible density on this site is up to 35 dwelling units per acre at any time. Did you consider a larger project?
1187
03:08:35.770 --> 03:08:48.520
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Yeah, when we initially looked at the project, us and our sister company,
Summer Hill Apartment Communities, looked at the project. They would be building up to 35 units per acre,
they would be…
118803:08:48.630 --> 03:08:51.730Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Having a site that's 4 to 5 stories,
1189
03:08:51.930 --> 03:09:04.350
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): We met with all council members. The feedback that we got was 20 units per
acre is the appropriate density for this site. We had a neighborhood meeting.
119003:09:04.650 --> 03:09:10.239Speaker 16 (Community Hall): during our DD, and we decided to go with the lowest density possible for the site.
1191
03:09:10.960 --> 03:09:13.269
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): I would have to say…
119203:09:13.580 --> 03:09:19.809Speaker 16 (Community Hall): You know, on projects like this, it is very hard to make a project
1193
03:09:20.580 --> 03:09:35.039
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): be feasible, even though most people don't believe this, but it's hard to make
a project be feasible with 20% BMR units. In order to make the BMR units that are required for a project to work, you need a certain amount of square footage.
119403:09:35.720 --> 03:09:50.929Speaker 16 (Community Hall): to make the project viable. One of the things that we looked at when the new code, came in for the very high fire hazard was, do we look to work and come up with solutions with the fire
department?
119503:09:51.100 --> 03:09:54.130Speaker 16 (Community Hall): To make our project that was already
1196
03:09:54.340 --> 03:10:07.950
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): deemed complete, fire department had already reviewed it. Do we… do we…
do we find solutions to make this project work, or do we redesign where we're allowed by SB330 to go 20% higher.
119703:10:08.600 --> 03:10:17.789Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Provide 8002,000 square foot units, go up to 61 units for the project, Be able to go to…
1198
03:10:18.190 --> 03:10:21.569Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Four stories, reduce the setbacks.
119903:10:21.690 --> 03:10:31.749Speaker 16 (Community Hall): We had our internal meetings on it. First, we would have to go back to the drawing board, but our application would be live, because we're not going higher than the 20% that's
allowed by SB330.
120003:10:32.290 --> 03:10:38.700Speaker 16 (Community Hall): We would be able to provide, potentially, the setback that the new high fire hazard zone will allow.
120103:10:39.910 --> 03:10:46.629
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): But we would be providing 61 units instead of 51. We would be providing 4-
story units instead of 3-story. All of it
120203:10:46.730 --> 03:10:55.820Speaker 16 (Community Hall): acceptable by… State density bonus law. We made the decision to work with the fire department
1203
03:10:55.920 --> 03:10:58.759
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Come up with alternative methods.
120403:10:58.910 --> 03:11:04.210Speaker 16 (Community Hall): That in our meetings with the fire department, we truly believe we're equal to
120503:11:04.450 --> 03:11:16.420
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): what the code was looking for. So that's how we winded up with moving
forward. I'm just providing this explanation because that's what happened when the new high fire hazard
zone came in.
120603:11:16.455 --> 03:11:23.395
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay, no, I appreciate that. I also just want to, you know, express my, you
know, thanks for
120703:11:23.695 --> 03:11:38.314Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Talking with all of us over a number of years at this point, as you've moved
forward with this project, because it has been at least a reasonable ongoing discussion, and we don't
necessarily get that with every applicant.
120803:11:38.325 --> 03:11:49.915Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And I am certainly most appreciative of, you know, what you're willing to do with the height reduction. I understand why you would want some additional assurances with respect to that.
1209
03:11:51.645 --> 03:11:58.524
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): If I could also… I know that, you know, there's been a lot of interest from the
community with respect to evacuation.
121003:11:58.685 --> 03:12:12.175Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And I know that you've taken that rather seriously, so if you could give us a synopsis of your view of, Dr. Cow's, analysis, I'd appreciate it. Sure. So.
1211
03:12:12.830 --> 03:12:18.430
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): as we… Submitted our application through the city and went through several plan checks.
121203:12:18.880 --> 03:12:26.979Speaker 16 (Community Hall): comments about, I don't know, 6 months, 4 to 6 months into the project, it
was determined that an evacuation study is not required.
1213
03:12:27.220 --> 03:12:31.460Speaker 16 (Community Hall): As we… Progress through the project.
121403:12:31.790 --> 03:12:33.400Speaker 16 (Community Hall): And…
1215
03:12:33.610 --> 03:12:39.360
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): there was a lot of… I don't want to call it noise, but there was a lot of feedback to us that,
121603:12:40.240 --> 03:12:44.550Speaker 16 (Community Hall): There's a lot of questions regarding evacuation and how that would work.
1217
03:12:44.750 --> 03:12:49.290
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): We… Had a couple of meetings with staff.
1218
03:12:49.780 --> 03:13:00.220
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Obviously, we can read the code, but you can always, as an applicant, miss aspects of the code or misunderstand it. So, we had a couple of meetings with staff, and…
1219
03:13:00.480 --> 03:13:06.300
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): asked, and this is down the road now, this is, I don't know when, October,
November, whatever it was of last year.
122003:13:06.510 --> 03:13:14.739Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Are there… are there standards that the city has for evacuation? Does the city have objective standards for evacuation?
1221
03:13:14.840 --> 03:13:21.939
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Has the city done an evacuation study for this area? So all of those answers
were no.
122203:13:22.010 --> 03:13:28.760Speaker 16 (Community Hall): I don't know timeline, I'll go forward another month or two, somewhere around there.
1223
03:13:28.770 --> 03:13:46.520
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): We met with 3 residents individually, and one of the residents, as you mentioned, had done their own internal look study, whatever you want to call that, their own analysis of what they thought it would be. I'm not a traffic engineer, I've been doing this 37 years, but I can't…
122403:13:46.710 --> 03:13:55.319Speaker 16 (Community Hall): I can't evaluate. I can read a report, but I can't decipher what's real, what's
not. So, we talked to Hexagon Transportation.
122503:13:55.430 --> 03:14:02.909Speaker 16 (Community Hall): They're the experts at it. They actually do this type of work for many jurisdictions. We work with them because they're very good at what they do.
122603:14:03.010 --> 03:14:20.640
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): We said, look at this report, give us an internal analysis so we understand, is
it truly an issue? Is our project truly causing what his report is saying? The feedback that we got was, your
project is adding 3.6 or 3.7, I don't remember the exact decibel.
122703:14:20.740 --> 03:14:31.520Speaker 16 (Community Hall): let's say 3.6, 3.7% to the overall, to the overall neighborhood, and that amounts to…
1228
03:14:32.010 --> 03:14:43.560
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): approximately 2 minutes of added time, which is very different than the
homeowner report that was done. So, my follow-up question was, okay, so how can it be so different?
1229
03:14:44.980 --> 03:14:54.109
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): the short answer that I got, well, we're traffic engineers, this is what we do, this is what we came up with, and I said, what are the… what are the…
1230
03:14:54.590 --> 03:15:03.420
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): criteria that you used. And the answer that I got, well, there is no criteria. We
could use what Farron Piers used.
123103:15:03.580 --> 03:15:05.389Speaker 16 (Community Hall): We could use…
1232
03:15:06.230 --> 03:15:16.719
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): half an hour, which would be half of what they used. We could use 2 hours,
or we could use 4 hours. Go to different jurisdictions, different areas, there's many different
123303:15:16.720 --> 03:15:26.350Speaker 16 (Community Hall): standards. So there is no standard, so I can… I gave you, this is my traffic engineer telling me, I gave you what I think is reasonable for here.
1234
03:15:26.360 --> 03:15:35.529
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): But some other traffic engineer could look at it and say, this isn't reasonable.
Well, you should be looking at it at a different criteria, so…
123503:15:35.820 --> 03:15:43.130Speaker 16 (Community Hall): essentially, what I got out of it, without criteria, it's very hard to determine what a report.
1236
03:15:44.280 --> 03:15:51.820
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): should be evaluated based on. So, that's the history of it. I think you go back 2 weeks to…
123703:15:52.110 --> 03:16:05.720Speaker 16 (Community Hall): March 17th, I think is when the hearing… the council hearing was. A few days before that, we got a flurry of emails that had been sent to the city saying Summerhill has done its own
evacuation study and is not sharing it.
123803:16:05.800 --> 03:16:24.999Speaker 16 (Community Hall): So, I sent a letter to each of you explaining kind of what I just explained. We had done this with Exacon, it was for our internal purposes. I wanted to understand what the neighbors was, to have a better understanding of the issues, and here it is. Here's what they had done. So that's the whole story of it. Any questions you have, I'd be more than happy to answer.
1239
03:16:31.790 --> 03:16:32.419
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Thank you.
124003:16:32.960 --> 03:16:35.270
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, I'm gonna share screen again.
1241
03:16:35.420 --> 03:16:49.560
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And I have… Some questions… Okay, so, we're looking at the, Preliminary fire access plan.
124203:16:49.990 --> 03:16:59.170Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And I would like to understand why you made the choice to, create a choke
point
1243
03:16:59.300 --> 03:17:03.189Speaker 1 (Community Hall): at the entrance to, Evulets Court.
124403:17:04.040 --> 03:17:07.739Speaker 16 (Community Hall): So, it's just a design feature that we…
1245
03:17:08.060 --> 03:17:16.099
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): we like, and we incorporate into many of our projects for several reasons. One of the benefits of
124603:17:16.450 --> 03:17:25.060Speaker 16 (Community Hall): That design is it creates a shorter distance for, the crosswalk.
1247
03:17:25.310 --> 03:17:34.640
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Across that area, so many jurisdictions ask for us to reduce the distance where pedestrians walk, so…
124803:17:35.380 --> 03:17:42.089Speaker 16 (Community Hall): we've incorporated that into many of our projects. The other part of it is, I
think it does add a benefit
1249
03:17:42.560 --> 03:17:48.619Speaker 16 (Community Hall): to the project by providing landscaping as an entry feature.
125003:17:49.820 --> 03:18:00.759Speaker 16 (Community Hall): the core requirement for fire is 20 feet wide. That's the… that's the width…
that's the width that they need. There's a turning radius and the width that they need.
1251
03:18:00.870 --> 03:18:05.630Speaker 16 (Community Hall): this design fully complies with that. There's nothing in this design
125203:18:06.050 --> 03:18:23.219Speaker 16 (Community Hall): That is an exception to what the fire department asks for. So… so those are
the reasonings that we wind up doing, and the landscape is part of the C3 that does stormwater treatment,
which is, you know, is a benefit of all the new projects that gets incorporated. Okay, so…
125303:18:23.225 --> 03:18:31.575Speaker 1 (Community Hall): gist of it. Thank you. So, a typical section would look like what you see on Linda Vista Drive, where you have the curb.
1254
03:18:31.575 --> 03:18:49.904
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): parkway, and then the sidewalk. If the concern is for pedestrian movement, you could put bollards there, but I actually, at this location, wouldn't suggest it, and I don't think that there is enough, foot traffic here to warrant this justification.
125503:18:49.905 --> 03:19:08.934Speaker 1 (Community Hall): that you're describing, what it does do is it gives the impression as though that
this were a private street, and that also shows up, in your, vesting tentative map, and I do have a question
about this. So your vesting tentative, note 21,
125603:19:09.395 --> 03:19:19.954Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Says that, all on-site streets are to be private and privately maintained. And then your circulation plan.
1257
03:19:20.745 --> 03:19:27.065
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Shows… That this will be a private walkway on-site.
125803:19:28.265 --> 03:19:32.245Speaker 1 (Community Hall): The… the purple dots. So this is not…
125903:19:32.265 --> 03:19:42.285
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): your private street. This is a public street, and I feel as though, you're trying to
create kind of a gateway, there, and I…
126003:19:42.285 --> 03:19:53.945Speaker 1 (Community Hall): don't think the city has to accept your… your plan for this. This is not something that, is a requirement to do it this way. We can reverse the,
1261
03:19:53.945 --> 03:20:01.414
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Have the parkway be adjacent to the curb for, the rest of the street, and take
care of the…
126203:20:01.425 --> 03:20:11.785Speaker 1 (Community Hall): bioretention requirements in that manner, which would be in keeping with our, typical sections for the street, and I've turned that in,
1263
03:20:12.315 --> 03:20:30.875
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): As well. When I'm looking at this, we're gonna move on to the tentative map.
Well, actually, I do have one more question on this design, because I do think it's really odd. You have a bold hammerhead, not a thing. So, a cul-de-sac is a dead-end street.
1264
03:20:31.105 --> 03:20:39.934Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And then you have the hammerhead. And they're two different things. And now you've made this weird hybrid, so that if I live on A Street.
1265
03:20:40.125 --> 03:20:48.865
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Am I supposed to be curving around the cul-de-sac and then hooking up to A
Street and having my rear
126603:20:48.985 --> 03:20:54.555Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Tire hit your pointed curve there, because you didn't make a smooth curve in order to
1267
03:20:54.695 --> 03:21:11.035
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): make that, maneuver. And were you thinking, well, maybe you can squeeze in a few illegally parked cars on the red curb in the cul-de-sac area, because cars are going to be going straight through there? So, what you don't see on this plan
126803:21:11.035 --> 03:21:18.205Speaker 1 (Community Hall): is that on the north and south side of Evilage Court, there are 5 parking
spaces, so…
126903:21:18.205 --> 03:21:21.975Speaker 1 (Community Hall): You do see this 20-foot… Mark?
127003:21:22.085 --> 03:21:27.675Speaker 1 (Community Hall): But what you're missing is that there will be parked cars along here.
1271
03:21:28.195 --> 03:21:32.265Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And then, if I lived in this neighborhood, and I saw that rolled-up curb.
127203:21:32.425 --> 03:21:39.094Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I could very well see people… you can fit probably one, two, maybe three cars illegally on that rolled-up curb. Illegally.
1273
03:21:39.095 --> 03:21:57.505Speaker 16 (Community Hall): it will be painted red, but you're talking about someone illegally parking… people can park illegally anywhere. What I… what I would say is the Hammerhead is the same design that this council looked at for our Stevens Creek project, that Hammerhead is an approved turnaround for fire. The cul-de-sac
1274
03:21:57.785 --> 03:22:03.104
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): detail is also an approved design that we've used on many communities.
127503:22:03.105 --> 03:22:27.155Speaker 1 (Community Hall): alone as a cul-de-sac at dead end. This is a… this is something different. This is
a hybrid. So I'm just saying, I think this is really, really bad and confusing design for people. Do a
hammerhead with a turn, or… or do a cul-de-sac, but you can't access A Street. So I think you should have done… what you should have here is a proper hammerhead with a curve to A Street.
1276
03:22:27.235 --> 03:22:36.394
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): To the north and the south. That would be much less confusing for, for the,
the, the residents here. I think this, this is,
127703:22:36.845 --> 03:22:41.945Speaker 1 (Community Hall): unnecessary, and it's unhelpful. If you truly intended to,
1278
03:22:42.535 --> 03:23:07.465
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And actually, you might have actually been able to squeeze in some more
parking that was legitimately placed there, before you got to the turn, so I don't… I don't know why you
would do this. So there's… and even at the front, and if you put… if you got rid of the bioretention, as you're showing here, you could probably squeeze in a parking spot on the north and south, and then over… over here, west of, B Street, between B and
127903:23:07.465 --> 03:23:22.335Speaker 1 (Community Hall): It looks like you could probably have gotten at least one more parking space.
Why would we mention this? Because there's no on-site guest parking, on the actual site, so they're using
the city's… the city's right-of-way for this.
128003:23:22.355 --> 03:23:40.224Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And giving the impression that it's a completely private development, as though you own Evulets Court, when it's a public road. So I… also, the visuals of that, it's not welcoming to the rest of the neighborhood, because they… they do own this… this land. We've owned it since,
1281
03:23:40.255 --> 03:23:49.564
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): 1969. Okay, so that's all I have with that. I don't see any further hands raised,
and we really do need to get to public comment.
128203:23:49.705 --> 03:23:55.025Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, Madam City Clerk, do we have anyone that would care to speak on this matter? Mayor?
1283
03:23:55.025 --> 03:24:00.584
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Perhaps we should extend the meeting before we go into, public comment? Okay.
128403:24:00.590 --> 03:24:01.359Speaker 1 (Community Hall): We need to.
1285
03:24:01.365 --> 03:24:08.115
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Extend it with the, acknowledgement that we have the, hearing on the petitions for reconsideration.
1286
03:24:08.620 --> 03:24:23.000Speaker 1 (Community Hall): That we must get to as well. Correct. Okay, so… do I need to give a time, an actual time, or just say we're going to extend the meeting until we have completed the entire agenda, no matter how late that is? You could say that. Okay, so moved. Do I have a second?
1287
03:24:23.140 --> 03:24:24.030
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Second.
128803:24:24.280 --> 03:24:29.090Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you, Madam City Clerk, will you please… Conduct the vote.
1289
03:24:31.530 --> 03:24:34.359
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, you'll be using your panel, we're all in person.
129003:24:37.020 --> 03:24:38.659Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you for the reminder.
1291
03:24:38.930 --> 03:24:43.980
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): More moved, and Wong seconded. Start vote.
129203:24:49.090 --> 03:24:50.840Speaker 17 (Community Hall): The motion carries unanimously.
129303:24:51.020 --> 03:24:51.690
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Alright.
1294
03:24:51.695 --> 03:24:56.164Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. So we will, because of the hour and the
129503:24:56.535 --> 03:25:04.495Speaker 1 (Community Hall): combined, merry reconsiderations. We'll be having 2 minutes per, individual
comment.
1296
03:25:04.635 --> 03:25:09.795Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Card, and with that requirement, how long will public comment likely take?
129703:25:11.300 --> 03:25:18.299Speaker 17 (Community Hall): So, right now, Mayor, we have, I believe, 15 requests to speak in person,
including 5 groups.
1298
03:25:18.600 --> 03:25:25.010Speaker 17 (Community Hall): And at this time, I see 4 hands raised virtually, so, live group.
1299
03:25:25.015 --> 03:25:26.085
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): at…
130003:25:26.725 --> 03:25:30.024Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Depending on the number of speakers in their group, but,
1301
03:25:31.535 --> 03:25:41.765Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Typically, a group with 5 would get 10 minutes, so 2 minutes per person for a group up to 5 people, so up to 10 minutes.
130203:25:42.215 --> 03:25:47.624Speaker 17 (Community Hall): So we have some groups… That have 3, 4, or 5 people.
1303
03:25:47.785 --> 03:25:58.895Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so, we'll… a group of 5 gets… will get 8 minutes, total, and then we've got, 2 minutes per individual.
130403:26:02.985 --> 03:26:06.604Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And then try to work that math. How long is that?
1305
03:26:09.395 --> 03:26:13.045Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, 15 groups at 8, that's…
130603:26:17.155 --> 03:26:18.105Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay.
1307
03:26:18.110 --> 03:26:19.080
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Oh, fine.
130803:26:19.080 --> 03:26:26.199Speaker 1 (Community Hall): 5 groups of 8, okay. 40 on that, sorry. And then, how many individuals? 15? We have 10…
1309
03:26:26.205 --> 03:26:35.304
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): 10 individuals so far in person. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 hands raised, so that's 17.
131003:26:35.455 --> 03:26:44.724Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Individual speakers, times that by 2 minutes. Hour and 14 minutes. Plus the… 5 groups of eight.
1311
03:26:44.730 --> 03:26:58.889
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, I hope it holds at that, so about an hour and 15, 14 minutes plus walking time. Yes, so if you could call the individuals in groups of three, and they would be lined up, I think that would help… Yes, ma'am. Speed things up. Thank you.
1312
03:26:59.220 --> 03:26:59.850Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay.
1313
03:27:00.010 --> 03:27:14.409
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): So, we are moving to the public comments of this portion of the agenda. As a
reminder, members of the public wishing to speak regarding this item shall submit a request to speak or
raise their hand virtually within 9 minutes of the start of this public comment period, or before public comment period is closed, whichever comes first.
131403:27:14.770 --> 03:27:19.340Speaker 17 (Community Hall): At this time, we are going to call, Santa Rao, followed by Jean Bedoured.
1315
03:27:19.680 --> 03:27:25.370
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Followed by Dare Chang's group. Welcome, San. You will have 2 minutes.
131603:27:27.440 --> 03:27:34.330Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Vice Mayor Chao, Councilmember, speaking on behalf of myself only, I'm a Planning Commissioner, but speaking on behalf of myself only as a resident.
1317
03:27:34.670 --> 03:27:42.440
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): I will, just speaking on behalf of myself on that vote that was characterized as being a unanimous vote.
131803:27:42.750 --> 03:27:47.880Speaker 18 (Community Hall): or being a unanimous approach, I just want to say it was a 3-2 vote.
1319
03:27:48.210 --> 03:27:52.549
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): And the voting, in my opinion, concluded prematurely.
132003:27:52.680 --> 03:27:56.650Speaker 18 (Community Hall): My read of the dice was that we were gonna fail that motion.
1321
03:27:56.770 --> 03:28:00.859
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): I asked the chair repeatedly if she understood the motion.
132203:28:01.140 --> 03:28:04.779Speaker 18 (Community Hall): And my read of the chair at that time was.
1323
03:28:04.920 --> 03:28:09.319
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): That the chair would vote with the other two that clearly looked like they
were going to vote against it.
132403:28:09.480 --> 03:28:16.739Speaker 18 (Community Hall): So, in my opinion, the evening ended sooner than we expected. Coming back
to my observation of what we've seen here today.
1325
03:28:17.010 --> 03:28:20.170
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): It seems to me that there is no one
132603:28:20.380 --> 03:28:24.680Speaker 18 (Community Hall): body that is looking at compliance to the AB130 process.
1327
03:28:24.890 --> 03:28:33.409
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): It's unclear if I understood that they were responsible for the CEQA
exemption overall, or just to review what was given to them by the applicant.
132803:28:33.630 --> 03:28:38.470Speaker 18 (Community Hall): I've heard repeatedly from staff that they are not responsible for file code review.
1329
03:28:38.950 --> 03:28:45.650
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): And so, it would appear to me that it falls to this quasi-judicial body to make the determination if the city is, in fact.
133003:28:45.780 --> 03:28:52.799Speaker 18 (Community Hall): able to exempt the AB130 checklist. However, in order to do that, you may
want to clarify with staff or the city attorney
1331
03:28:52.950 --> 03:28:58.339Speaker 18 (Community Hall): Whether, in fact, you can deem the application as being incomplete.
133203:28:58.590 --> 03:29:01.730Speaker 18 (Community Hall): Because if you were to send this back.
1333
03:29:01.970 --> 03:29:05.550
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): But you do not have the authority to deem the application incomplete.
133403:29:05.670 --> 03:29:09.939Speaker 18 (Community Hall): The clock continues to run, and at 60 days, the application's approved without a hearing.
1335
03:29:10.130 --> 03:29:27.720
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): So I would urge you to make sure that the land use at me, who's on the video there, can give you confirmation whether you have the power to send this back, to remind this back to staff, and say the application is deemed incomplete, and to come back with a more complete application based on the findings from today. I just want to make that point. Thank you.
1336
03:29:29.560 --> 03:29:34.909
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, San. Next, we have Jean Bedor, followed by Dirt Chang's group.
133703:29:40.560 --> 03:29:41.880Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Good evening.
1338
03:29:42.180 --> 03:29:46.599
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): This has gone on and on. My name is Jean.
133903:29:46.600 --> 03:29:47.350Speaker 19 (Community Hall): ambledoured.
1340
03:29:47.350 --> 03:29:49.220
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And I am a Cupertino resident.
134103:29:49.440 --> 03:29:50.529Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I am here to…
134203:29:50.530 --> 03:29:55.589
Speaker 19 (Community Hall): Urge you to follow state law and approve this project.
1343
03:29:55.690 --> 03:30:02.060Speaker 19 (Community Hall): You have the responsibility to implement the state-approved housing element.
134403:30:02.660 --> 03:30:09.280Speaker 19 (Community Hall): Let me take you back in time to the January 25th, 2022 Planning Commission
meeting.
1345
03:30:09.600 --> 03:30:15.720Speaker 19 (Community Hall): Which considered opportunity sites for the city. That was 4 years ago.
134603:30:16.500 --> 03:30:21.419Speaker 19 (Community Hall): You're already deep into the 8-year housing cycle.
1347
03:30:22.110 --> 03:30:25.640
Speaker 19 (Community Hall): Take a look at the map from this meeting.
134803:30:25.800 --> 03:30:32.659Speaker 19 (Community Hall): Avalanche Court has been identified as a housing element site from the very beginning.
1349
03:30:33.200 --> 03:30:36.380
Speaker 19 (Community Hall): The owner spoke clearly at that meeting.
135003:30:37.070 --> 03:30:39.739
Community Hall: And develop… he wanted to develop the site.
1351
03:30:40.860 --> 03:30:52.290
Speaker 19 (Community Hall): Now, I don't think you're able to do it, but there is a clip of that meeting where Councilmember Wong was… spoke very clearly about the West Side.
135203:30:52.580 --> 03:30:58.059Speaker 19 (Community Hall): Take the… could we just take the entire west side and drive the…
1353
03:30:58.210 --> 03:31:04.660
Speaker 19 (Community Hall): DUA up to 20, and you know, and then say, let's go count that puppy.
135403:31:04.910 --> 03:31:14.169Speaker 19 (Community Hall): Oh, oh, yes, we should absolutely counsel the city. I mean, the west side has never experienced that type of growth.
1355
03:31:14.990 --> 03:31:16.890
Speaker 19 (Community Hall): It's that attitude.
135603:31:17.040 --> 03:31:20.320Speaker 19 (Community Hall): on this council that is disturbing.
1357
03:31:20.670 --> 03:31:23.229
Speaker 19 (Community Hall): You have a responsibility.
135803:31:23.560 --> 03:31:34.340Speaker 19 (Community Hall): to approve housing and get it built. It's time for you to take responsibility and follow through on your commitments. Thank you for the opportunity.
1359
03:31:35.270 --> 03:31:45.920
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Jean. Next, we'll welcome Dirt Chang's group, followed by Vikram
Zakisina's group, followed by Joan Cummings. Welcome, Dirt Cheng. Can you, bring out my slides?
136003:31:46.450 --> 03:31:46.850Speaker 20 (Community Hall): Yes.
1361
03:31:47.050 --> 03:31:52.120
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Just give me one moment. Actually, I'm under attack. I should get a little bit
more minutes to explain myself.
136203:31:52.120 --> 03:31:54.440Speaker 10 (Community Hall): But it's okay, I'll try to fit in a minute.
1363
03:31:55.830 --> 03:31:58.380
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Okay, you can bring up the slides.
136403:32:06.670 --> 03:32:10.699Speaker 20 (Community Hall): Thank you, video. Okay, hey, Greg, even you see,
1365
03:32:10.705 --> 03:32:25.715
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): City Council. I'm Dushan Cao, speaking on behalf of many Cupertino residents here. This project sit on a very high wildfire risk zone, on top of an active fall, people of a magnitude 7 of earthquake.
136603:32:25.995 --> 03:32:43.334Speaker 21 (Community Hall): So tonight, what I want to show you is how the developer moved from
acknowledging the risk to avoiding the responsibility. This is just not a zoning. It's a difference between safe
evacuation and the potential entrapment. Next slide, please.
136703:32:44.805 --> 03:32:52.084Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Okay, the map is quite clear. I don't have to explain more. It's on the red zone, on the top of the, the Manta Vista floor.
1368
03:32:52.495 --> 03:33:02.874
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): So the key question before you is very, very simple. Does this project create a
specific adverse impact on public safety?
136903:33:03.675 --> 03:33:10.205Speaker 21 (Community Hall): The data showed the answer is definitely yes. Next slide, please. Let's move to my first point.
1370
03:33:11.735 --> 03:33:13.195
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): So,
137103:33:14.055 --> 03:33:26.774Speaker 21 (Community Hall): You will see how the developer initially acknowledged the Wi-Fi danger at the Avalogy Court, only to deflect the responsibility by narrowing the focus to only the 51 unit alone.
1372
03:33:26.965 --> 03:33:31.584
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Ignoring the cumulative risk to the entire Linda Vista community.
137303:33:31.745 --> 03:33:33.165Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
1374
03:33:35.195 --> 03:33:50.275
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): This is a timeline shown quite clearly. After Evelidge Court was classified as
the red zone, Summer Hill officer Mr. Ibrahimi and Mr. Bull acknowledged the evacuation rest in October
2025.
137503:33:51.125 --> 03:33:56.705
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Yet, just a sixth day later, Sydney, CD.
137603:33:56.955 --> 03:34:00.995Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Provide them a path to bypass the peer review safety.
1377
03:34:01.535 --> 03:34:02.884Speaker 21 (Community Hall): After the New Year.
137803:34:03.095 --> 03:34:07.655Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Steve came to my door. I really appreciated the gesture.
1379
03:34:08.535 --> 03:34:12.984
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): And I met… both Kevin and Steve, in good faith.
138003:34:13.235 --> 03:34:23.805Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Walking them through my evacuation analysis, which showed the required safe egress time of more than 90 minutes.
1381
03:34:24.205 --> 03:34:27.194
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Okay? But those who warn you was set aside.
138203:34:27.555 --> 03:34:37.174Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Their consultant used the fourth metric, which I will show you later, that effectively erased our neighbors from the evacuation map.
1383
03:34:38.055 --> 03:34:44.264
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Two weeks ago, Summer Hill even sought endorsement from Jason Yu, as they just pointed out.
138403:34:44.645 --> 03:34:47.934Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Who is a global fire safety firm? Anybody know that?
1385
03:34:48.195 --> 03:34:48.935
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): But…
138603:34:50.145 --> 03:35:03.414Speaker 21 (Community Hall): By the conclusion, what they received was… let me just read you the text. The review does not imply that compliance were relevant code, with the relevant code and the standard.
1387
03:35:03.415 --> 03:35:11.825
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): eliminates all the hazard and the risk. I think this is very important. This is a very last sentence in that letter. Next slide, please.
1388
03:35:12.955 --> 03:35:15.264
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Summer, he'll build a narrative.
138903:35:15.385 --> 03:35:16.984Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Not a safety plan.
1390
03:35:17.135 --> 03:35:28.294Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Even their own third-party reviewers say that being code compliant does not eliminate hazard and risk. Let me move to the second point. Next slide, please.
139103:35:30.435 --> 03:35:31.635Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Yeah.
1392
03:35:31.845 --> 03:35:41.454Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Okay, so, let's compare the develop-funded study with the city's own commissioned expert, Fair and the peers. Next slide, please.
139303:35:42.125 --> 03:35:44.065Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Here's our daily baseline.
1394
03:35:44.455 --> 03:35:49.785Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Highway 85, and a local at the school. I don't have to explain more. Next slide, please.
139503:35:51.225 --> 03:35:52.855Speaker 21 (Community Hall): The developable plan.
1396
03:35:53.035 --> 03:35:58.384Speaker 21 (Community Hall): This project had only 2 minutes on the… on the 59 minutes baseline.
139703:35:58.695 --> 03:36:00.545Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Sounds fairly linear, isn't it?
1398
03:36:01.035 --> 03:36:02.604
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Well, reality is…
139903:36:03.515 --> 03:36:17.134Speaker 21 (Community Hall): you… once you go through the… the city's expert, fair and appear show that the reality is 200% of the capacity failure. So what does that mean? When an assistant is at double its capacity, vehicles are trapped.
1400
03:36:17.505 --> 03:36:19.544Speaker 21 (Community Hall): It's another 2 minutes. Trapped.
1401
03:36:19.935 --> 03:36:21.324
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
140203:36:21.805 --> 03:36:24.515Speaker 21 (Community Hall): So what's the discrepancy? This chart is very clear.
1403
03:36:24.755 --> 03:36:27.164Speaker 21 (Community Hall): First, the developed county resident only.
140403:36:27.935 --> 03:36:30.995Speaker 21 (Community Hall): And if you look at the city expert, they…
1405
03:36:31.215 --> 03:36:35.134
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): they take the real population. Students from the three schools.
140603:36:35.305 --> 03:36:45.025Speaker 21 (Community Hall): employees at Apple and local business, and the world traveler visiting the legendary Silicon Valley. Guys, we live in this place called the Silicon Valley.
1407
03:36:45.935 --> 03:36:53.985
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): The developer assumed clear sky, perfect driving condition with a 900 vehicles per land, 3 land in peril.
140803:36:54.265 --> 03:37:02.885Speaker 21 (Community Hall): The CT expert says, no, no, no, no, no, you need to adjust for Wi-Fi in reality. There's a smoke, there's a low visibility, lots, lots of panic.
1409
03:37:03.015 --> 03:37:11.975Speaker 21 (Community Hall): So they reduced this, reasonably, to everybody recognizes 570 vehicle per hour. There's a huge, huge differences. Next slide, please.
141003:37:12.335 --> 03:37:22.275Speaker 21 (Community Hall): The development study was a voluntary, non-squal internal document. We
cannot plan our survival based on the spreadsheet that erased our children and the elderly.
141103:37:22.895 --> 03:37:25.815Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Please reject the develop-funded feature.
141203:37:26.235 --> 03:37:34.704Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Let's mandate independent expertise, and prioritize education survival. Let's
move to my third point. Next slide, please.
141303:37:36.305 --> 03:37:42.295Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Now, let's take a look at the physical of the Intrepid. I don't have enough time, so I'll quickly walk through you through this.
141403:37:42.505 --> 03:37:44.305Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
1415
03:37:44.535 --> 03:38:03.575
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): The developer used a very, very static metric, assuming speedy highway flow,
but Linda Vista is so-called the spine and the rib corridor, and the earthquake triggered the wildfire. We faced power failure, smoke, fire engine, and the force merging. Roadway capacity dropped to 1 sixth of the ideal.
141603:38:04.045 --> 03:38:18.034Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Okay, nearly 100 cars from Avalanche Court must merge into the already
oversaturated Vista drive, just like this picture showing here. This is required a dynamic model. So what
matters? Total clearance time.
141703:38:18.335 --> 03:38:23.454Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Asteroid density at average port trigger a state of the change. Next slide, please.
1418
03:38:24.545 --> 03:38:27.564
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Why 30 minutes? This chart's very clear.
141903:38:28.505 --> 03:38:41.505Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Diablo 1 is going to drive the fire spread 200 feet per minute. Any spark within 1.1 miles, actually it's an entire red zone, any fire in the entire red zone will reach an average core in less than 30 minutes.
1420
03:38:41.795 --> 03:38:43.174
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
142103:38:44.095 --> 03:38:44.965Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Today.
1422
03:38:45.375 --> 03:38:52.054
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): when we have a capacity exceed the demand. So add fuel car, add the fuel
delay. That is reasonable.
142303:38:52.185 --> 03:38:55.705Speaker 21 (Community Hall): But once the demand approach or exceeds capacity?
1424
03:38:56.085 --> 03:38:59.284
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): as the, the R3 zoning. The system.
142503:39:00.015 --> 03:39:03.645Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Become oversaturated. Delay increase like a hockey stick.
142603:39:03.775 --> 03:39:05.825Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Next place. Next page.
1427
03:39:06.925 --> 03:39:12.144
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): So, this is very clearly. Currently, we take… we have enough time to
evacuate.
142803:39:12.255 --> 03:39:21.334Speaker 21 (Community Hall): But with the R3 project, the timeline jumped into 93.5 minutes. That means at least 10% of the park simply will not escape.
1429
03:39:21.835 --> 03:39:24.334
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Okay, next slide. Next page, please.
143003:39:26.025 --> 03:39:33.545Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Here are the sovereign examples of one wildfire outruns and oversaturated evacuation. Next page, please.
1431
03:39:36.425 --> 03:39:38.095
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): This is in the morning at Denver.
143203:39:38.885 --> 03:39:43.525Speaker 21 (Community Hall): I don't use a bullet, because a bullet kills, but at this page, I have to use a bullet.
1433
03:39:44.875 --> 03:39:54.034
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): The city doesn't have to… okay, the staff report says the city does not have adopted standard. Please don't accept that.
143403:39:54.215 --> 03:39:57.855Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Okay? You cannot ignore your own expert study.
1435
03:39:58.015 --> 03:40:03.034
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): So before you approve it, a full SQL review and mitigation is needed.
143603:40:03.295 --> 03:40:04.295Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Next page.
1437
03:40:05.375 --> 03:40:08.015
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Thank you for your attention. Please vote no.
143803:40:10.285 --> 03:40:11.785Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Next page, please.
143903:40:13.805 --> 03:40:16.495Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Next page, please. And the next page.
1440
03:40:17.905 --> 03:40:20.275
Speaker 21 (Community Hall): I live this reality to you.
144103:40:20.885 --> 03:40:21.815Speaker 21 (Community Hall): Thank you.
1442
03:40:22.870 --> 03:40:24.230
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Dirt Chang.
144303:40:24.720 --> 03:40:27.680Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Next, we have, Vikram's group.
144403:40:27.890 --> 03:40:34.340
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Followed by Ying Socik, followed by Brook Exit, Welcome, Vikram.
1445
03:40:35.030 --> 03:40:41.639Speaker 13 (Community Hall): sure, my… the stuff here is getting projected, so I'm not sure where to… I have a laptop here.
144603:40:42.161 --> 03:40:43.570
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, should I put it here, or put it.
1447
03:40:43.740 --> 03:40:45.460Speaker 20 (Community Hall): There.
144803:40:45.465 --> 03:40:48.465Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Are you presenting your slides that you shared?
1449
03:40:48.465 --> 03:40:53.844
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): It's a different thing, so I want to use this if I can. So, can I just keep it here? Would that work?
145003:40:57.260 --> 03:40:58.840Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Let me check with you.
1451
03:41:01.600 --> 03:41:09.800
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): All right. Not one I had in mind, but, this works. So, I guess,
145203:41:10.290 --> 03:41:15.340
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): To simplify things, First of all, I wanted to thank the city staff.
1453
03:41:15.600 --> 03:41:18.739
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): They have sent us PRAs
145403:41:18.970 --> 03:41:29.460Speaker 23 (Community Hall): of 800, 900, I don't know, God knows how many pages, duly redacted and everything, which has really helped us win the case. So all the people out there who are doing that work,
thank you so much.
1455
03:41:29.680 --> 03:41:35.669Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Thank you so much. Because I know it's not easy to go through so much of that.
145603:41:35.850 --> 03:41:37.490
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): First of all.
1457
03:41:37.620 --> 03:41:45.990Speaker 23 (Community Hall): This boils down to essentially a choice between public safety, versus developer profits in a very high fire hazard safety zone.
145803:41:46.480 --> 03:41:47.140
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Okay.
1459
03:41:51.570 --> 03:41:57.009Speaker 23 (Community Hall): I don't know so… I'm not sure how my magnifying glass is working, okay? So…
146003:41:58.140 --> 03:42:02.570
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): The developer's claim is that they must reduce the fire safety setback to 10
feet.
146103:42:02.700 --> 03:42:05.160Speaker 23 (Community Hall): To meet the city's density mandates.
146203:42:05.390 --> 03:42:10.059
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): The physical reality is that all they're trying to do is maximize their profits.
1463
03:42:10.430 --> 03:42:14.159Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Density is not the constraint, unit sizes.
146403:42:14.610 --> 03:42:18.000Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, I have this density versus greed matrix.
1465
03:42:18.270 --> 03:42:35.140
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): It talks about two comparable, townhomes… townhome developments. One was, in Vida Sunnyvale, we just saw, and one is in, Westport, Cupertino. I think I was in the planning commission when this was approved, and they all went through
1466
03:42:35.250 --> 03:42:39.370
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): the… They all have density bonuses and everything.
146703:42:39.490 --> 03:42:46.079Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And both of these are in Sunnyvale's, the Cooperative Union students extinct, which sort of determines the price of these homes.
1468
03:42:46.460 --> 03:42:49.629
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): As you can notice, the Summer Hill proposal is about
146903:42:50.600 --> 03:42:53.489Speaker 23 (Community Hall): 300 to 600 cheats more than most of them.
1470
03:42:53.760 --> 03:43:01.880
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Vida Sunnyvale is actually leaving 53 feet set back to neighboring single-
family homes. Westport didn't require that.
147103:43:02.440 --> 03:43:07.449Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, the demand of 10-foot setbacks is only driven by greed.
1472
03:43:08.860 --> 03:43:10.600
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And the blueprint is like this.
147303:43:10.970 --> 03:43:15.520Speaker 23 (Community Hall): You know, new building construction, is about 500 square foot.
147403:43:16.440 --> 03:43:18.320
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): This is conservative low end.
1475
03:43:18.850 --> 03:43:22.659Speaker 23 (Community Hall): What they're essentially doing is…
147603:43:22.780 --> 03:43:27.709Speaker 23 (Community Hall): A financial choice to extract 30 million more in excess revenue.
1477
03:43:27.940 --> 03:43:32.549
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Converting the neighborhood's designated file buffer into private square footage.
1478
03:43:32.690 --> 03:43:35.530
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): It's exactly that, nothing more, nothing less.
147903:43:35.650 --> 03:43:42.170Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Dead… They claim that the cul-de-sac
1480
03:43:42.310 --> 03:43:46.770Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Which is ceded to the city, is requiring them to move this, which is as…
148103:43:46.940 --> 03:43:55.069Speaker 23 (Community Hall): which anybody can say is bullshit, because they can easily change the design of the roads by adding internal roads and everything. So…
1482
03:43:55.260 --> 03:43:58.390Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Let me just frame the choice very simply.
148303:44:00.520 --> 03:44:05.009Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And now I want to go into this, why 30 feet exits.
1484
03:44:05.240 --> 03:44:06.779
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): There is a science behind that.
148503:44:07.140 --> 03:44:10.119Speaker 23 (Community Hall): One is the inverse… inverse square law.
1486
03:44:10.250 --> 03:44:15.820
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): That radiant heat, which controls spread of fire, goes down by distance.
148703:44:15.950 --> 03:44:22.970Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, at 10 feet, The heat, in fact, is 9 times at 30 feet.
1488
03:44:23.370 --> 03:44:30.320
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): There is energy dissipation. You know, fire comes in, it dissipates, rather than
getting concentrated.
148903:44:30.980 --> 03:44:34.489Speaker 23 (Community Hall): There is defensible space, TRC491,
1490
03:44:34.820 --> 03:44:45.409
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And, it's supposed to be 30 feet in very high fire safety zones, and by having
the 30 feet set back, they can control it within their property lines.
149103:44:45.640 --> 03:44:53.839Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And there is tactical access. You know, firemen, if they're fighting a wildfire,
don't want to be stuck in a corridor surrounded by 40 feet high walls.
1492
03:44:54.180 --> 03:44:55.549
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): While they're doing it.
149303:44:56.030 --> 03:45:01.410Speaker 23 (Community Hall): I mean, it's basic common sense. You don't need to have a degree in physics to understand all these things.
1494
03:45:02.390 --> 03:45:02.970
Community Hall: Okay.
149503:45:03.190 --> 03:45:04.390Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Sort of.
1496
03:45:07.430 --> 03:45:09.549
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And I'll talk about the 10 feet chimney effect.
149703:45:09.820 --> 03:45:20.490Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, we have these nicely fire-hardened walls there, and then they are just at 10 feet away, and they're going to be reflecting heat back to the neighboring homes.
1498
03:45:20.700 --> 03:45:30.980
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): As the Fire Marshal has stated very clearly, their analysis is all focused on
hardening of these homes, and not on what is happening nearby.
149903:45:31.130 --> 03:45:33.800Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And Section 4291 is meant to be
1500
03:45:34.040 --> 03:45:39.339
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): provide the setbacks and everything so fire doesn't spread. That's the sole
purpose.
150103:45:42.230 --> 03:45:47.060Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And then there's a tunnel effect. So if a wildfire is coming in from the…
1502
03:45:47.410 --> 03:45:54.980
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): the wildland interface. What we have created is a 10 feet wide tunnel
150303:45:55.110 --> 03:45:57.800Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Banked by a 45th high townhouse.
1504
03:45:58.010 --> 03:46:03.969
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Where the fire can just rush through and start burning all the wooden fences
in the neighboring homes.
150503:46:04.150 --> 03:46:11.570Speaker 23 (Community Hall): I guess you guys have seen enough movies that in a tunnel, an explosion and a fire travels very quickly. That's exactly what's going to happen here.
1506
03:46:11.690 --> 03:46:16.419Speaker 23 (Community Hall): I'm not an expert, but I'm sure the fire people will agree with it.
150703:46:17.060 --> 03:46:27.620Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, instead of the fire dispersing sequentially over open ground, the tight corridor exposes every single family home to a risk of a configuration.
1508
03:46:29.070 --> 03:46:35.980Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, next I want to talk about the evacuation trap. I think Dirt Cheng has already talked about it. The fact remains that even now.
150903:46:36.130 --> 03:46:42.750Speaker 23 (Community Hall): We are… like… 25% of the capacity needed before the new development
comes.
151003:46:44.300 --> 03:46:51.599Speaker 23 (Community Hall): The next step is about, the AV130. So, it's important to understand what AV130 is.
151103:46:51.780 --> 03:46:58.730
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): It's supposed to make sure that there is ministerial approval of housing
element products so that they can be done fast.
151203:46:58.950 --> 03:47:01.430Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Ministerial approval is generally a checklist.
151303:47:01.670 --> 03:47:06.059
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And very high fire safety zones are supposed to be excluded from that
checklist.
151403:47:06.500 --> 03:47:16.989Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And it's natural that CEQA is meant to save… ensure safety, environment safety, and in a very high fire safety zone, you wouldn't want to be doing CEQA exemptions.
1515
03:47:17.720 --> 03:47:26.620
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Now, what the… what the law also states, that if you're following all the rules,
you could apply for a CEQA exemption in AB130.
151603:47:27.120 --> 03:47:34.310Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And the law says that in very high fire safety zones, you should be doing 30
feet setbacks.
151703:47:34.630 --> 03:47:39.300Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, if they were doing 35 setbacks, then we could have considered doing that.
1518
03:47:41.890 --> 03:47:49.830Speaker 23 (Community Hall): I'll… Estrada's, you know, Fire Marshal's memo is saying very clearly this approval is case-by-case.
151903:47:49.970 --> 03:47:53.739Speaker 23 (Community Hall): The staff determined it provides appropriate alternatives.
1520
03:47:53.920 --> 03:47:56.210Speaker 23 (Community Hall): That fuel modic is sufficient.
152103:47:56.640 --> 03:48:01.319Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, there is so much of discretionary and expert approval applied here.
1522
03:48:01.560 --> 03:48:06.660
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): To claim that this is based on objective standards is ridiculous.
152303:48:09.310 --> 03:48:10.460Speaker 23 (Community Hall): Oh, no.
1524
03:48:10.690 --> 03:48:14.930
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, to summarize, MV130 requires ministerial approval.
152503:48:15.450 --> 03:48:19.989Speaker 23 (Community Hall): It requires adherence to code. Code says 30 feet setbacks.
1526
03:48:20.980 --> 03:48:27.219
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And it should be evaluated on its face. It permits zero excise of personal or
professional judgment.
152703:48:27.920 --> 03:48:34.419Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, if a fire safety approval requires a case-by-case evaluation, it is inherently discretionary, and
1528
03:48:34.610 --> 03:48:37.749
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): legally ineligible for AE130 stream licensing.
152903:48:37.870 --> 03:48:40.220Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And the fact is that most cities don't even…
153003:48:40.570 --> 03:48:49.409Speaker 23 (Community Hall): In their forms don't even accept those applications because they say very high-fire city zones, or safety zones, are not qualified.
1531
03:48:50.890 --> 03:48:55.159
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): And the last thing I want to call out is the behavior of the attorneys for Summit Health.
153203:48:55.900 --> 03:49:05.030Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So the… on February 12th, the attorney for Summerhill Sent a letter claiming that the FHIR code
1533
03:49:05.310 --> 03:49:16.420Speaker 23 (Community Hall): the project complies with PRC4291, and the city should not be, should not have any reasons to not approve 4291, AB130.
153403:49:16.900 --> 03:49:21.180Speaker 23 (Community Hall): The reality is… That the plans were not approved for that.
1535
03:49:21.590 --> 03:49:26.640Speaker 23 (Community Hall): The fire marshal today confirmed that, that not looked at 4291.
153603:49:27.500 --> 03:49:28.449Speaker 17 (Community Hall): How much time do I have?
1537
03:49:28.760 --> 03:49:31.110
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): That, that was your time. Oh, okay.
153803:49:31.870 --> 03:49:32.920Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you.
1539
03:49:33.470 --> 03:49:42.330
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): So, I'll just say that, the biggest thing is, attorneys should be worried about
why they're misrepresenting. Thank you, Vikram, letting that.
154003:49:42.335 --> 03:49:43.205Speaker 17 (Community Hall): is your time?
1541
03:49:43.495 --> 03:49:44.555
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you.
154203:49:45.475 --> 03:49:52.794Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Next, we have, Ying Sosik, followed by Brooke Ezzett, followed by Mark
Fantozzi's group.
1543
03:49:53.035 --> 03:49:54.244
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Welcome, Ying.
154403:49:54.895 --> 03:49:55.635Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Hello?
1545
03:49:55.885 --> 03:49:56.965
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Good evening.
154603:49:56.965 --> 03:49:57.855Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Everyone?
1547
03:49:58.405 --> 03:50:02.165
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, can you speak into the microphone?
154803:50:04.060 --> 03:50:17.090Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Those are big shoes to step into, so I did not come here with slides. I just want all of us to just take a moment and just focus on the humans that live in this neighborhood.
1549
03:50:17.090 --> 03:50:24.459
Speaker 24 (Community Hall): We've heard about laws, we've talked about projects, we've talked about
walls, we've talked about all kinds of things, we've even
155003:50:24.620 --> 03:50:28.310Speaker 24 (Community Hall): So I talked about evacuation in abstract terms.
1551
03:50:28.480 --> 03:50:45.810
Speaker 24 (Community Hall): Right? So, I just want to invite everybody here to go through a mental
exercise. Let's think about what evacuation means. That means you go hard, there's a fire. I'm going to
gather some stuff in my house, and I'm gonna look at my car, look at my bike, or look at my shoes, and choose a way to go.
155203:50:45.910 --> 03:51:01.970Speaker 24 (Community Hall): Right? You put on your shoes, you put on your sneakers, you run, and you
just hope you can run really fast out in the smoke. Okay? If you take your bike, you go, what am I gonna
take? Right? My purse or my cat? Right? So the likely path is you're gonna take your car.
155303:51:02.110 --> 03:51:19.979Speaker 24 (Community Hall): Okay, so anybody who lives in our neighborhood knows, you know that traffic in the morning? Between the exit point, Linda Vista, and to the point that you get to 7-Eleven, when you get to Baker Road, that's just a parking lot on the best of days, without everybody being on it.
1554
03:51:20.050 --> 03:51:31.189
Speaker 24 (Community Hall): Right? So if you take your car option, then you're stuck, right? It doesn't
matter who's talking, whether this is a project, or this is a plan, or does this pertain to anything, the facts are facts.
1555
03:51:31.190 --> 03:51:40.899
Speaker 24 (Community Hall): Right? So the car to capacity ratio is somewhere between 2 and 4 to the
various studies. That just means there's not enough rows for us to get out.
155603:51:41.100 --> 03:51:53.579Speaker 24 (Community Hall): Right? So, don't… don't just, like, think evacuation is an action, it's a thing that we talked about tonight. Think about it as all of us humans just trying to survive, just trying to get out.
1557
03:51:53.820 --> 03:51:58.840
Speaker 24 (Community Hall): Okay? So I call on City Council to not approve the project as it is.
155803:51:59.060 --> 03:52:05.939Speaker 24 (Community Hall): But come up, you know, together with the developers, with the residents, with a plan, that C to it.
1559
03:52:06.390 --> 03:52:07.879
Speaker 24 (Community Hall): The other humans.
156003:52:08.430 --> 03:52:15.360Speaker 17 (Community Hall): can survive. Thank you. Next, we have Brooke Ezzett, followed by Mark Fantozzi's group.
1561
03:52:15.580 --> 03:52:18.630
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Followed by Jennifer Corfan.
156203:52:18.740 --> 03:52:20.140Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Welcome, Brooke.
1563
03:52:24.430 --> 03:52:26.300
Speaker 24 (Community Hall): Thank you.
156403:52:26.300 --> 03:52:30.390Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I have two asks for this Linda Vista project. First, that.
156503:52:32.130 --> 03:52:38.199
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I have two asks for this Linda Vista project. The first is that Councilmember
Moen recuses herself.
156603:52:38.580 --> 03:52:55.590Speaker 25 (Community Hall): the mayor and the vice mayor recused themselves on projects that would have affected them for much less… for much lesser reasons. The FPPC does not always agree with local
agencies, and the FPPC should have been consulted before
1567
03:52:56.410 --> 03:53:01.660
Speaker 25 (Community Hall): any decision was made regarding the recusal. You had ample time to call up
156803:53:01.780 --> 03:53:20.819Speaker 25 (Community Hall): the FPPC at 1-866-ASK-FPPC, 9 to 11, Mondays through Fridays. Secondly, this project as it stands should be… shouldn't be approved. Have we learned nothing from the Oakland Hill
Fire? In 1991, the Oakland Hill Fire swept through.
1569
03:53:20.820 --> 03:53:28.040Speaker 25 (Community Hall): And destroyed 1,500 acres, 3,000 single-family residents, 500…
157003:53:28.190 --> 03:53:34.800Speaker 25 (Community Hall): Apartments and condos. 150 people were injured. 25 people died.
1571
03:53:36.500 --> 03:53:49.950
Speaker 25 (Community Hall): And some of the newspaper reports from the time said it appeared people were totally surprised by the ability of the fire to move so quickly. Several victims were killed as they tried to walk
157203:53:50.130 --> 03:54:00.000
Speaker 25 (Community Hall): or crawled down the hill out of the path of the fire. And they crawled and they
walked down the hill because of the gridlock and the debris in the streets.
157303:54:00.330 --> 03:54:08.869Speaker 25 (Community Hall): People matter, profits matter, but people matter more. And I ask the Council to make the developer reconfigure
1574
03:54:09.190 --> 03:54:14.880
Speaker 25 (Community Hall): the project so that it is safe for the entire community. You have
157503:54:15.450 --> 03:54:20.560Speaker 25 (Community Hall): a responsibility to the safety of the residents. Thank you.
157603:54:21.040 --> 03:54:26.500
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Brooke. Next, we have Mark Fentozzi's group, followed by Jennifer
Corfin.
157703:54:26.910 --> 03:54:29.150Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Followed by David Yen's group.
157803:54:32.820 --> 03:54:34.870
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): So… How much time do I.
1579
03:54:34.875 --> 03:54:35.504Speaker 21 (Community Hall): I guess.
1580
03:54:35.505 --> 03:54:45.535
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): So, Mark, do you have 3 people in your group? Yourself and Iris? So, 3 people
would be 4 minutes and 48 seconds.
158103:54:45.540 --> 03:54:49.319Speaker 20 (Community Hall): Did she… Yeah.
1582
03:54:49.750 --> 03:54:57.100
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): So, I'm Mark Vantazi, and I'm speaking, in opposition to the, Summerhill
proposal.
158303:54:57.670 --> 03:55:01.189Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I'm asking the Council to focus on what a lot of.
1584
03:55:01.195 --> 03:55:11.945
Speaker 26 (Community Hall): people have been talking about. Public safety has not been demonstrated on
this project, and the city cannot legally approve this project without completing the required analysis.
158503:55:12.115 --> 03:55:23.544Speaker 26 (Community Hall): The project remains unsafe and incomplete. Your own records show serious unresolved deficiencies. The fire code and PRC4290 require
1586
03:55:23.565 --> 03:55:34.474
Speaker 26 (Community Hall): Verify fire flow, water supply reliability, defensible space, and road access,
and evacuation safety, especially in very high fire hazard zones.
158703:55:34.765 --> 03:55:57.205Speaker 26 (Community Hall): Yeah, the project provides no wildfire evacuation analysis, despite a single corridor known bottleneck on Linda Vista and Stevens Creek. I can't emphasize enough that the reliability and redundancy analysis and fire flow is so critical for this. We do live in an earthquake zone. Round shaking
does rupture pipe.
158803:55:57.205 --> 03:56:02.115Speaker 26 (Community Hall): Fire sprinklers don't work if they don't have water.
158903:56:02.605 --> 03:56:04.775Speaker 26 (Community Hall): So…
1590
03:56:05.035 --> 03:56:21.144Speaker 26 (Community Hall): The water supply analysis is also incomplete. There are no fire flows. The water main in Linda Vista Drive is more than 50 years old, and the system lacks redundancy, and these same conditions contributed to the Palisades fire water supply failure.
159103:56:21.265 --> 03:56:28.705Speaker 26 (Community Hall): Approving 51-unit townhome project without verifying system reliability is a foreseeable hazard.
1592
03:56:29.425 --> 03:56:45.045
Speaker 26 (Community Hall): The environmental and biological reviews are deeply flawed. The environmental review shows that the Phase 2 investigation failed to test for two major historical, use, pesticide uses. One's parathyne and one's Xeram.
159303:56:45.085 --> 03:56:55.505Speaker 26 (Community Hall): This was an orchard at one time. That should be included in this
environmental study. Both of these are fairly highly toxic chemicals.
159403:56:58.190 --> 03:57:14.499Speaker 26 (Community Hall): The transport study… transportation study also contains over a dozen critical errors. The transportation, E&O, registered documents issued of previously effectively, have parking minimums, bike parking.
1595
03:57:14.680 --> 03:57:24.140
Speaker 26 (Community Hall): bike parking, site distance safety issues, school area operations, and other
CEQA compliance issues.
159603:57:24.430 --> 03:57:28.680Speaker 26 (Community Hall): The planning staff improperly froze public safety.
1597
03:57:28.810 --> 03:57:45.480
Speaker 26 (Community Hall): Planning staff asserted the project was vested, thereby exempting it from,
modern fire safety evacuation and water supply requirements. The legal record shows this is false. SB330
does not vest fire safety regulations. Very high,
159803:57:45.500 --> 03:57:52.089Speaker 26 (Community Hall): safety requirements require PRC4290 or CEQA-related safety findings.
1599
03:57:52.250 --> 03:57:57.879
Speaker 26 (Community Hall): These are police power safety standards. They cannot be frozen or waived.
160003:57:58.410 --> 03:58:12.879Speaker 26 (Community Hall): Summershill's actions also raise even concerns. Summerhill offered concessions to two of my neighbors' concessions they refused to offer publicly at the Planning Commission meeting, claiming they could not make the project work.
1601
03:58:12.880 --> 03:58:18.949
Speaker 26 (Community Hall): If that's true, the city is legally justified in requiring financial disclosure
1602
03:58:18.950 --> 03:58:40.740
Speaker 26 (Community Hall): before granting any fire safety exemptions, and there's California appellate decisions establishing that when a developer seeks discretionary exemptions that reduce public safety protection, the city can require pro forma financial and cost compliance and evidence supporting any claim in feasibility.
1603
03:58:42.730 --> 03:59:02.550
Speaker 26 (Community Hall): The attorney even, argued that evacuation need not be analyzed because the city does not have an evacuation plan. Despite the site being in a very high fire zone, and despite statutory requirements to evaluate evacuation impacts, this is not a responsible development.
160403:59:03.760 --> 03:59:17.489Speaker 26 (Community Hall): Approving the project as is will have long-term negative impacts. The errors
will result in increased wire fire risk, high fire insurance rates, lower property values, ongoing liability for the
city.
160503:59:17.490 --> 03:59:28.879Speaker 26 (Community Hall): and long-term burdens on residents who rely on safe and reliable evacuation routes. I need to remind everybody, the people that are going to be suffering the consequences are the people that live there.
1606
03:59:28.880 --> 03:59:36.020
Speaker 26 (Community Hall): The other people that may support this project do not suffer the
consequences. Summerhill will not suffer the consequences of this.
160703:59:36.250 --> 03:59:43.080Speaker 26 (Community Hall): The Council should either deny the project or request a full CEQA analysis. Thank you.
1608
03:59:43.840 --> 03:59:45.900
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Mark, and your group.
160903:59:46.520 --> 03:59:48.739Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Next, we have Jennifer Griffin.
1610
03:59:51.120 --> 03:59:53.209
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): I don't see Jennifer.
161103:59:54.790 --> 03:59:58.040Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Moving on, we will go to David Yen's group.
1612
03:59:58.360 --> 04:00:01.890
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Followed by Connie Cunningham, followed by Veronica Lentfer.
161304:00:02.480 --> 04:00:07.039Speaker 17 (Community Hall): David, I see you have 4 people in your group, so you… Yes, and I do.
161404:00:07.045 --> 04:00:08.545Speaker 8 (Community Hall): have a PowerPoint presentation.
1615
04:00:08.545 --> 04:00:09.305
Speaker 20 (Community Hall): Six.
161604:00:09.305 --> 04:00:12.724Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Minutes and 24 seconds, and…
1617
04:00:21.845 --> 04:00:22.735
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thanks!
161804:00:24.040 --> 04:00:41.789Speaker 22 (Community Hall): Good evening, City Council members. There has been a lot of… there's been a lot of emotion and strong feelings about this project. Tonight, I only want to talk about the facts, so let's take a closer look. Next slide, please.
1619
04:00:44.850 --> 04:00:46.060
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
162004:00:47.960 --> 04:01:07.140Speaker 22 (Community Hall): Okay, substantial evidence that the project will pose a health and safety hazard. That's all you have to find tonight. I have 6 grounds that I can go through. I certainly have a lot more, but any one of these should qualify for you to find that, evidence of the health and safety hazard. Next slide, please. Let's go one by one.
1621
04:01:08.210 --> 04:01:28.210Speaker 22 (Community Hall): Firstly, let's talk about AB130's exemption. You'll notice that a lot of cities, if you go through their AB130 checklist, if you're in a very high fire hazard zone, it actually doesn't even qualify for the CEQA exemption right on the spot. That's the first question. It's a first level disqualifier. Why do some cities allow it and some not?
1622
04:01:28.210 --> 04:01:33.309
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): Well, at the corridor level, you actually… the city actually has to apply
162304:01:33.430 --> 04:01:43.109Speaker 22 (Community Hall): mitigating standards to accommodate for those, for the fact that they're in a very high fire hazard zone to even qualify for some of these criteria that we're going to talk
1624
04:01:43.110 --> 04:01:54.890
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): more about, the city has only adopted baseline standards, so the legislature
would have no effect if that's all it required was existing baseline standards. We can move on.
162504:01:56.600 --> 04:02:08.500
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): Next slide. We've talked a lot about these three criteria. The key point here is
AND, AND and AND. It's building materials under 7A, it's set back under 4290,
162604:02:08.500 --> 04:02:21.789Speaker 22 (Community Hall): And it's defensible space under 4291, sometimes also referred to as 551182
under the LRA. 4291 has not been signed off.
162704:02:21.790 --> 04:02:36.139Speaker 22 (Community Hall): If you look at the consultant memos from the city, the consultant memos from the developer, as well as Chief Estrada's updated letter and his signed off, they only signed off on 4290, so they did not address defensible space.
1628
04:02:36.350 --> 04:02:54.649
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): These are actually present tense requirements under AB130. The key word in
the statute is adopted, with an ED. That means it's been adopted before the sequel exemption is granted.
Let's talk a little bit more about the alternate means, AMMR, under the 4290 setback.
162904:02:54.780 --> 04:03:04.700Speaker 22 (Community Hall): We've heard a lot about building materials being used as the alternate, but let's look on the left column. Building materials is its own independent
1630
04:03:04.800 --> 04:03:24.269
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): qualification standard. That has to be met anyways. That's one of the three criteria. So when you're using an alternate means, of which almost all the criteria for the alternate means differs back to the building materials, and you haven't looked at defensible space, then we've essentially diluted three minimum criteria
1631
04:03:24.270 --> 04:03:27.500
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): under the CEQA exemption, into one.
163204:03:27.610 --> 04:03:39.679Speaker 22 (Community Hall): building materials. So, that… that on its face should not qualify, and again, these are present tense findings. It's… the standard is adopted, not to be adopted. Okay, next slide, please.
1633
04:03:41.330 --> 04:03:56.859
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): Let's talk a lot about evacuation. You've heard the numbers. Fern Pierce
shows over 200% operating capacity on McClellan Road and Bubb Road. Those are the only two exits if you
live on Linda Vista Drive or in that corridor.
163404:03:56.880 --> 04:04:06.409Speaker 22 (Community Hall): If you go a little bit past it, it gets up to 420%. So that's… I think that's significant. A lot's been said about that. I can go to the next slide.
1635
04:04:08.820 --> 04:04:09.540
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): Okay.
1636
04:04:09.590 --> 04:04:22.240
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): Let's talk a little bit more about the rationale for why the developer is not considering evacuation. If you look at the February 12th, 2026 memo from Cox and Castle, it says that
1637
04:04:22.240 --> 04:04:32.060
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): because they received a clearance from the HAA in April of 2025, that that is
the reason why they did not consider evacuation for this study.
163804:04:32.060 --> 04:04:44.190Speaker 22 (Community Hall): But I found in our PRA, in our public records request, that in October of 2025, 6 months after that stated clearance, that they were still asking Ms. Sujiyama about
1639
04:04:44.290 --> 04:04:51.309
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): the… about conducting an evacuation study. Why would you ask that if you
already got clearance 6 months prior to that? Let's keep going.
164004:04:53.920 --> 04:05:01.419Speaker 22 (Community Hall): So we talked about the FER and Pierce study. That's only on the record as of March 9th for the health and safety element.
1641
04:05:01.560 --> 04:05:11.389
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): You know, we can debate about whether AB130 requires it, but the Subdivision Map Act, which is a separate track, absolutely does. If you have evidence
164204:05:11.590 --> 04:05:28.399Speaker 22 (Community Hall): of a health and safety hazard, you must consider it under the Subdivision Map Act. And, you know, whether or not evacuation studies are required or not is a totally different story. You
have evidence, you have the evidence you need. Let's keep going. Next slide.
164304:05:28.460 --> 04:05:34.290Speaker 22 (Community Hall): When residents finally raised evacuation concerns starting on January 13th.
164404:05:34.320 --> 04:05:50.790Speaker 22 (Community Hall): of 2026, prior to a neighborhood meeting held by Summer Hill, you know, one
was finally done by Hexagon. We had to complain to get that released. When we looked at it, what we found
was that the Hexagon study already shows the corridor is failing.
164504:05:51.370 --> 04:06:02.379Speaker 22 (Community Hall): So, they're talking about 3% additional, or 2 minutes additional. That misses the point, because the hexagon study studies the intersection of McClellan and Bubb. That's where 7-Eleven is.
1646
04:06:02.560 --> 04:06:05.189
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): Okay? It does not measure
164704:06:05.580 --> 04:06:24.339
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): the time to evacuate Linda Vista Drive. How can you have an evacuation
study that doesn't measure the time to evacuate the street that you're on? And then, so, if you… so that 61 minutes is only the intersection. Then you have to add the time to exit Linda Vista Drive. So it's over 61 minutes. Next slide.
1648
04:06:25.800 --> 04:06:42.009
Speaker 22 (Community Hall): We talked about, about, about no notifications. I think, we heard from Luke
himself, who said that nobody was notified. You know, I'm disappointed to hear this evening that Councilmember Mohan, is not recusing herself. She could still
164904:06:42.010 --> 04:06:51.160Speaker 22 (Community Hall): elect to make that decision, on the spot, and, and, you know, I would… I would recommend in light of everything that… that she does. In conclusion,
1650
04:06:51.720 --> 04:06:52.689Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you for your time.
165104:06:53.040 --> 04:07:04.489Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, David, and your group. Next, we will welcome Connie Cunningham, followed by Veronica Lenfer's group, followed by Kenneth Javier Rosales.
1652
04:07:04.630 --> 04:07:06.030Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Welcome, Connie.
165304:07:06.390 --> 04:07:08.390Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you. Thank you.
1654
04:07:11.810 --> 04:07:12.720
Speaker 20 (Community Hall): Okay.
165504:07:13.900 --> 04:07:15.629Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Honorable Mayor Moore.
1656
04:07:15.980 --> 04:07:18.810
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Vice Mayor and Council Members.
165704:07:19.140 --> 04:07:23.190Speaker 2 (Community Hall): My name is Connie Cunningham, I'm a 38-year resident on the Housing Commission.
1658
04:07:23.195 --> 04:07:28.225
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): speaking for myself only. I strongly support this application for.
165904:07:28.225 --> 04:07:34.835Speaker 27 (Community Hall): We want new, well-designed homes in a wonderful location for students from
elementary high school.
1660
04:07:34.965 --> 04:07:44.594
Speaker 27 (Community Hall): My children attended these excellent schools. I know that the new families will deeply appreciate being part of this neighborhood and schools.
166104:07:45.055 --> 04:07:54.994Speaker 27 (Community Hall): Cupertino needs more homes of all types. These townhomes include below-
market rate purchase homes, and an excellent step… is an excellent step forward.
1662
04:07:55.175 --> 04:08:04.674Speaker 27 (Community Hall): The county fire chiefs clearly explained how the homes meet the new requirements for new fire high severity maps. They are professionals.
166304:08:05.215 --> 04:08:13.835
Speaker 27 (Community Hall): who best advise Council and residents on fire risks and preparation. I urge
you to heed their advice.
166404:08:14.135 --> 04:08:24.305Speaker 27 (Community Hall): These homes are near Capucino Highly Acclaimed School, Middle School, and elementary school. It's also near other city amenities. Of special interest is the applicant's request
1665
04:08:25.085 --> 04:08:42.795
Speaker 27 (Community Hall): whatever. For access to the Linda Vista Trail. That would be an amazing
access to trails, Blackberry Farm, and the Blackberry Preserve. Blackberry Preserve is a gem that Cupertino
has set aside for nurturing nature's plants and animals, as well as nurturing the human spirit.
166604:08:42.835 --> 04:08:49.074Speaker 27 (Community Hall): I urge City Council to approve this Summerhill Townhome project tonight.
1667
04:08:49.175 --> 04:08:51.325
Speaker 27 (Community Hall): Thank you for this time to speak.
166804:08:52.250 --> 04:08:56.300Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Connie. Next, we will welcome Veronica's group.
1669
04:08:58.010 --> 04:09:04.320
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Veronica, you have a group of 3 people, so you will have 4 minutes and 48
seconds this evening.
167004:09:06.775 --> 04:09:24.754Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Good evening, my name is Veronica Linfer, and I live near the proposed 51 townhome development. And I'm speaking on behalf of myself and seven other residents. So I'd like to make several points. First, when the City considered rezoning Evilich Court, notification was deficient in so many ways.
1671
04:09:25.665 --> 04:09:43.674Speaker 15 (Community Hall): For example, on September 6th, 2024, I personally attended a meeting with our neighbors, City Manager Pamela Wu, and Mayor Sheila Mohan to deliver a petition signed by 745 residents with many concerns.
1672
04:09:43.795 --> 04:09:46.275
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): But what happened after that? Nothing.
167304:09:46.725 --> 04:09:54.205Speaker 15 (Community Hall): It was never acknowledged and never placed in the City Council records, until frustrated neighbors got Kitty more involved.
1674
04:09:54.475 --> 04:10:01.735
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Is this how the city listens to the 745 persons most affected by this development?
167504:10:01.875 --> 04:10:05.525Speaker 15 (Community Hall): What happened to Trans… Transparent Cupertino?
1676
04:10:06.105 --> 04:10:17.435
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): The city has dropped the ball so many times, they didn't even mail clear legal notices to residents within 300 feet of the project when the zoning was changed.
167704:10:18.325 --> 04:10:25.974Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Every petition signer expressed shock and concern about both this proposal and the rezoning, which we didn't know about.
1678
04:10:26.285 --> 04:10:32.615Speaker 15 (Community Hall): This parcel had been zoned R1 for single-family homes for over 60 years.
167904:10:32.865 --> 04:10:42.925Speaker 15 (Community Hall): which reflected the character of our neighborhood until it was rezoned again in July 2024 without notifying the local residents.
1680
04:10:43.485 --> 04:10:45.794Speaker 15 (Community Hall): The next key point I want to make is
168104:10:46.145 --> 04:10:53.735Speaker 15 (Community Hall): That this development will significantly worsen an already unsafe evacuation situation.
1682
04:10:54.155 --> 04:10:57.584Speaker 15 (Community Hall): You don't get a redo on this site, all of you.
1683
04:10:58.755 --> 04:11:01.825
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Its development will be a part of our neighborhood forever.
168404:11:02.565 --> 04:11:05.975Speaker 15 (Community Hall): We've lived there decades. This will go on for decades.
1685
04:11:06.455 --> 04:11:13.065Speaker 15 (Community Hall): We have serious, unresolved concerns about the fire safety that have not been adequately addressed.
168604:11:13.235 --> 04:11:18.354Speaker 15 (Community Hall): The density and design introduce new risks in a very high fire hazard zone.
1687
04:11:18.515 --> 04:11:27.064Speaker 15 (Community Hall): It's also important to note that the Planning Commission's approval last month was fundamentally flawed. Here's why.
168804:11:27.515 --> 04:11:33.164Speaker 15 (Community Hall): After voting for the Evilage project on February 24th.
1689
04:11:33.545 --> 04:11:48.944Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Planning Commission Chair Tracy Casolocharon stated that the recommendation was made without knowing about the evacuation route capacity assessment that was prepared by Furr and Piers in September of 2025.
169004:11:49.255 --> 04:11:51.325
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): In fact, in her public letter.
169104:11:52.235 --> 04:11:55.805Speaker 15 (Community Hall): to the city. Earlier this month, she wrote, quote.
169204:11:56.575 --> 04:12:04.835Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Last week, a representative from the same environmental consulting firm that
did the Evilich AB130 exemption
169304:12:05.875 --> 04:12:18.875Speaker 15 (Community Hall): stated to over 100 planning commissioners that development in very high fire hazard zones should not be exempt from CEQA via AB130."
169404:12:19.435 --> 04:12:23.374
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Therefore, this project must not be exempt from CEQA.
169504:12:23.565 --> 04:12:31.785Speaker 15 (Community Hall): Safety must be a non-negotiable priority for our city. Who will be held accountable if something goes wrong?
169604:12:32.425 --> 04:12:38.045Speaker 15 (Community Hall): We recommend that you reject the Evilich project and require a full, transparent.
1697
04:12:38.145 --> 04:12:41.504
Speaker 15 (Community Hall): CEQA review. Thank you for your time and consideration.
169804:12:43.010 --> 04:12:49.470Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Veronica. Next, we have Kenneth Javier Rosales, followed by Patrick
1699
04:12:50.350 --> 04:12:56.389
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): She… she be? Patrick? Followed by Frank Swanson. Welcome, Kenneth.
170004:12:56.550 --> 04:13:01.640Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Alright, thank you. Good evening, Mayor Moore and, Council. My name is.
1701
04:13:01.640 --> 04:13:06.299
Speaker 28 (Community Hall): Kenneth Javier Rosales, the Leadership Development Program Manager with
SV at Home.
170204:13:06.620 --> 04:13:15.589Speaker 28 (Community Hall): a housing justice organization, a membership organization that works across Santa Clara County to advance affordable housing.
1703
04:13:15.860 --> 04:13:22.310
Speaker 28 (Community Hall): We'd like to show our support of the Linda Vista Drive project and urge approval of staff's recommendation.
170404:13:22.510 --> 04:13:39.830Speaker 28 (Community Hall): We are excited about adding 51 new homes integrated with affordable options, located near parks, trails, schools, and services. This is a well-located project that helps deliver
needed, very much needed housing.
170504:13:40.240 --> 04:13:49.530Speaker 28 (Community Hall): This development advances our housing goals and RHNA obligations. Staff has found this project to be exempt from CEQA,
170604:13:49.810 --> 04:13:56.540
Speaker 28 (Community Hall): Consistent with no net loss under Senate Bill 166, And compliant, ready for
approval.
170704:13:57.140 --> 04:13:58.979Speaker 28 (Community Hall): Approving this proposal will…
170804:13:59.110 --> 04:14:10.020Speaker 28 (Community Hall): Add to our very needed housing supply, and support infill near existing amenities. It'll also give us certainty to move housing forward in the City of Cupertino.
1709
04:14:10.260 --> 04:14:13.760
Speaker 28 (Community Hall): and the larger Santa Clara County, and shoot, the Bay Area.
171004:14:14.660 --> 04:14:19.080Speaker 28 (Community Hall): We respectfully urge the Council to agree with…
1711
04:14:19.350 --> 04:14:22.049
Speaker 28 (Community Hall): The findings that the project is exempt from CEQA,
171204:14:22.680 --> 04:14:27.380Speaker 28 (Community Hall): The no net loss findings, and approving the project as recommended by staff.
1713
04:14:27.530 --> 04:14:29.869
Speaker 28 (Community Hall): Thank you so much. I yield my time.
171404:14:31.440 --> 04:14:38.069Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Kenneth. Next, we have Patrick, followed by Frank Swanson, followed by Dan Marshall. Welcome, Patrick.
1715
04:14:44.530 --> 04:14:53.550
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Council members, my name is Patrick Sheeh, and I live with my wife just two
houses north of the proposed development.
171604:14:53.900 --> 04:14:57.079Speaker 10 (Community Hall): My main concern is, just like everyone.
1717
04:14:57.080 --> 04:14:58.060
Speaker 29 (Community Hall): Everybody else?
171804:14:58.190 --> 04:14:59.550Speaker 29 (Community Hall): the development.
171904:15:00.050 --> 04:15:01.490
Speaker 29 (Community Hall): is fire.
1720
04:15:01.970 --> 04:15:03.440Speaker 29 (Community Hall): Bye.
1721
04:15:03.820 --> 04:15:09.560
Speaker 29 (Community Hall): I have, experience with my brother-in-law and sister.
172204:15:09.790 --> 04:15:12.360Speaker 29 (Community Hall): In the park fire up a,
1723
04:15:12.990 --> 04:15:18.660Speaker 29 (Community Hall): a fire that was, in July and August of 2024.
172404:15:19.360 --> 04:15:23.209Speaker 29 (Community Hall): My brother-in-law, Doug, had a dispensable space.
1725
04:15:23.340 --> 04:15:28.280
Speaker 29 (Community Hall): With a generator pumping water on his house and on the garden.
172604:15:28.420 --> 04:15:42.249Speaker 29 (Community Hall): The fire was so hot that it melted the piping on the water sprinkler, and it also melted holes in his windows.
1727
04:15:42.720 --> 04:15:46.269
Speaker 29 (Community Hall): So the only thing that saved the house was a,
172804:15:46.530 --> 04:15:52.230Speaker 29 (Community Hall): was the fire, fire crews from Central California.
1729
04:15:52.620 --> 04:15:59.170
Speaker 29 (Community Hall): So, Linda Vista Park is just a few hundred yards south of Summer Hill
Development, and Linda Vista
173004:15:59.620 --> 04:16:07.130Speaker 29 (Community Hall): golf course is adjacent on the backside. If a fire were to start in strong winds in Linda Vista or
1731
04:16:07.230 --> 04:16:10.409
Speaker 29 (Community Hall): In the golf course area, there'd be little time
173204:16:10.540 --> 04:16:20.559Speaker 29 (Community Hall): To, try to contain the blaze before it spread to the older homes, and then to the 51 and another of the 51 townhomes.
1733
04:16:20.920 --> 04:16:27.959
Speaker 29 (Community Hall): And then what do I and my neighbors do? If I evacuate right away, I might be able to use my car to escape.
1734
04:16:28.150 --> 04:16:33.300
Speaker 29 (Community Hall): If not, then, I would have to walk, because the streets would become impassable.
1735
04:16:33.600 --> 04:16:38.369
Speaker 29 (Community Hall): I don't… and I don't walk very fast anymore, let alone run.
173604:16:38.500 --> 04:16:44.579Speaker 29 (Community Hall): We ask that you take our arguments into consideration before you make your decision. Thank you.
1737
04:16:46.520 --> 04:16:47.670
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Patrick.
173804:16:48.060 --> 04:16:54.360Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Next, we have Frank Swanson, followed by Dan Marshall, followed by Danessa Tekmanski. Welcome, Frank.
1739
04:16:54.365 --> 04:17:04.885
Speaker 29 (Community Hall): I'm Frank Swanson, and I'm an electrical engineer and systems engineer,
retired. I live across the street from the Yovitz property. I've been there since 1969.
174004:17:05.145 --> 04:17:06.755Speaker 29 (Community Hall): And I fully expected that.
1741
04:17:06.755 --> 04:17:12.915
Speaker 30 (Community Hall): Property to be turned into single-family homes, not a townhouse complex
that's being proposed.
174204:17:13.285 --> 04:17:17.514Speaker 30 (Community Hall): I think it's just the wrong thing to build on that particular piece of property.
1743
04:17:17.665 --> 04:17:19.074
Speaker 30 (Community Hall): The three reasons.
174404:17:20.515 --> 04:17:26.164Speaker 30 (Community Hall): The first reason is that one you've heard most tonight, and that's the firestorm evacuation peril.
1745
04:17:26.615 --> 04:17:29.475
Speaker 30 (Community Hall): I am one of the people that's gonna have to get out of there.
174604:17:29.685 --> 04:17:38.204Speaker 30 (Community Hall): all the people that live in the Linda Vista corridor, and you've also forgot about the people on Ray Lane, which is another corridor, has one exit.
174704:17:38.325 --> 04:17:42.645Speaker 30 (Community Hall): They have to get out through Hyannisport. They have one way out as well.
1748
04:17:42.905 --> 04:17:46.774
Speaker 30 (Community Hall): So… That's the main… the main reason that I want to talk
174904:17:47.025 --> 04:17:50.054Speaker 30 (Community Hall): That we… you need to consider in your decision tonight.
1750
04:17:50.425 --> 04:17:52.155
Speaker 30 (Community Hall): The other two reasons are more…
175104:17:52.315 --> 04:17:56.775Speaker 30 (Community Hall): Well, more related to character and… Of the neighborhood.
175204:17:56.885 --> 04:18:01.175
Speaker 30 (Community Hall): having walls… Of the people who live adjacent to the property.
1753
04:18:01.335 --> 04:18:03.414Speaker 30 (Community Hall): In their backyard, they're gonna see
175404:18:03.575 --> 04:18:11.394Speaker 30 (Community Hall): Walls 30 feet high. Think of that, if you had your house with a 30-foot wall
behind your house, how would you feel about that?
1755
04:18:12.895 --> 04:18:19.705Speaker 30 (Community Hall): Didn't the people in the, in the, in the, the,
175604:18:19.805 --> 04:18:23.524Speaker 30 (Community Hall): the, swim and racquet Club. This is a view
1757
04:18:25.035 --> 04:18:28.775
Speaker 30 (Community Hall): of the racquet Club from Court 3. This is what they see today.
175804:18:29.720 --> 04:18:30.390Speaker 22 (Community Hall): If…
1759
04:18:31.430 --> 04:18:40.340
Speaker 30 (Community Hall): If this complex is built, this is what the people in the club are going to see.
240 people are not going to be very happy with this project.
176004:18:40.620 --> 04:18:42.560
Speaker 30 (Community Hall): You're gonna see a big wall.
1761
04:18:42.980 --> 04:18:49.669
Speaker 30 (Community Hall): Maybe not in red, but it's gonna be a big wall. I think you're gonna make that many… 240 people very unhappy.
176204:18:50.370 --> 04:18:59.460Speaker 30 (Community Hall): So, three things I think you should do. You want to disapprove this project,
Revert back to R1.
1763
04:18:59.680 --> 04:19:06.810Speaker 30 (Community Hall): And task the Planning Commission to come up with some other locations for this particular kind of project. Thank you, Frank. That is your time.
176404:19:07.470 --> 04:19:13.870
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Next, we have Dan Marshall, followed by Danessa Techmansky, followed by
Shuba. Welcome, Dan.
176504:19:15.520 --> 04:19:16.640Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Stand here.
176604:19:18.020 --> 04:19:19.390
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): No, Dan.
1767
04:19:20.020 --> 04:19:22.560Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Danessa Techmansky, are you here?
176804:19:30.420 --> 04:19:31.510Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Hang on.
1769
04:19:33.840 --> 04:19:39.200
Speaker 25 (Community Hall): Hi, I'm Danessa Techmanski. I'm a 32… 33-year Cupertino resident.
177004:19:39.425 --> 04:19:43.925Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Can… we got it up there, okay. So…
1771
04:19:43.925 --> 04:19:49.455
Speaker 31 (Community Hall): So, I wanted to show you these slides, that my friend is,
177204:19:50.295 --> 04:19:53.684Speaker 31 (Community Hall): and explain these to me. So…
1773
04:19:56.710 --> 04:20:07.629
Speaker 31 (Community Hall): This, yeah, this first one's about a legal threat to extract $30 million in profit,
based on a confirmed compliance that the fire department explicitly rejected.
177404:20:08.000 --> 04:20:18.920Speaker 31 (Community Hall): on Cox Castle and Nicholson formally claims that the fire department has confirmed compliance with PRC 4291 as part of the EB.
1775
04:20:19.010 --> 04:20:24.910Speaker 31 (Community Hall): 130 process. Oh, sorry, you can't hear me, okay. So…
177604:20:24.910 --> 04:20:43.680Speaker 31 (Community Hall): The Santa Clara County Fire Department's explicit documented status for PRC 4291 is not approved. I was noticing that earlier, had a lot of questions, and they're maintaining it as an
outstanding requirement, requiring a preliminary fire protection plan.
177704:20:44.950 --> 04:21:00.899Speaker 31 (Community Hall): The AMMR and January 7th approval are strictly limited to PRC4290, for the 30-foot, setback exception. PRC 4291 is entirely omitted from the scope of this approval.
177804:21:02.630 --> 04:21:09.820
Speaker 31 (Community Hall): Okay, so, the attorney submitted a letter, con…
177904:21:09.870 --> 04:21:29.520Speaker 31 (Community Hall): claiming compliance, on February 12th of 2026. And in March, of 2026, the residents formally notified Cox and Castle's attorney, of factual discrepancies with the primary source attachments, but
1780
04:21:29.560 --> 04:21:32.160
Speaker 31 (Community Hall): That was never corrected.
178104:21:33.570 --> 04:21:37.130Speaker 31 (Community Hall): They refused to correct it, so… Blah.
178204:21:37.135 --> 04:21:37.895
Speaker 25 (Community Hall): I have… oops.
178304:21:37.900 --> 04:21:40.130Speaker 17 (Community Hall): amount of time, okay. Thank you, Janessa.
178404:21:41.310 --> 04:21:46.079Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Next, we have Shuba, followed by Luis Adotti, followed by Rhoda Frye.
1785
04:21:47.900 --> 04:21:50.889Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Is there a Shuba?
178604:21:51.050 --> 04:21:52.370
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): In the audience?
178704:21:53.580 --> 04:21:56.379Speaker 17 (Community Hall): No, we will go to Luis Sadotti.
1788
04:22:03.590 --> 04:22:04.700Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Good evening.
178904:22:05.020 --> 04:22:10.710Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you for your service. I'm, Luis Sadati, 38-year resident.
1790
04:22:10.710 --> 04:22:14.850
Speaker 32 (Community Hall): Oh, 40-year resident of Cupertino.
179104:22:15.010 --> 04:22:17.829Speaker 32 (Community Hall): This project is currently vacant land.
1792
04:22:18.130 --> 04:22:24.320
Speaker 32 (Community Hall): The project concept was begun in January of 2022.
179304:22:24.460 --> 04:22:27.989Speaker 32 (Community Hall): Okay. It's included in our housing element.
1794
04:22:28.340 --> 04:22:32.590
Speaker 32 (Community Hall): Cooper is not building the required number of homes.
179504:22:32.980 --> 04:22:36.279Speaker 32 (Community Hall): Our HCD deadline is April 4th.
179604:22:36.470 --> 04:22:39.999
Speaker 32 (Community Hall): 2026. That's 3 days from now.
1797
04:22:40.380 --> 04:22:47.470Speaker 32 (Community Hall): If we don't meet the deadline, the Builder's Remedy could return again to Cupertino.
179804:22:47.610 --> 04:22:51.089
Speaker 32 (Community Hall): Developers would then be free to build
1799
04:22:51.610 --> 04:22:55.880Speaker 32 (Community Hall): As they wish, with no input nor constraint.
1800
04:22:56.160 --> 04:23:03.369
Speaker 32 (Community Hall): from our Cupertino City Council. So, we really do want to meet that April 4th deadline.
1801
04:23:03.680 --> 04:23:07.120
Speaker 32 (Community Hall): So, that we won't have builder's remedies.
180204:23:08.320 --> 04:23:21.299Speaker 32 (Community Hall): Cupertino needs starter homes for young families. Townhomes are more affordable than the surrounding single-family homes. 51 townhomes, 10 BMR units.
1803
04:23:21.480 --> 04:23:33.439
Speaker 32 (Community Hall): The project is at the lowest density allowed in the housing element. The
alternative is 4- to 5-story apartment condominiums in that same area.
180404:23:34.510 --> 04:23:41.480Speaker 32 (Community Hall): The project is close to Lincoln Elementary, Kennedy Middle School, and Monte Vista.
1805
04:23:41.640 --> 04:23:57.130
Speaker 32 (Community Hall): All of which have declining enrollments. Raydon Elementary was closed last
year due to the lack of students. This was a nationally recognized school, and we closed it because of lack of students.
180604:23:57.210 --> 04:24:05.740Speaker 32 (Community Hall): The value of the homes in this area are based on school reputation and access. We need this project to be
1807
04:24:06.140 --> 04:24:08.919Speaker 32 (Community Hall): passed by April 4th. Thank you. Thank you, Lou.
180804:24:09.835 --> 04:24:11.434Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Next, we have Rhoda Fry.
1809
04:24:19.500 --> 04:24:20.659
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Let me see if this works.
181004:24:21.590 --> 04:24:25.649Speaker 20 (Community Hall): Yep, there we go, hey! So, you've got to…
1811
04:24:25.655 --> 04:24:26.744
Speaker 24 (Community Hall): Decision ahead of you?
181204:24:26.750 --> 04:24:28.649Speaker 3 (Community Hall): whether CEQAs required, and .
181304:24:28.655 --> 04:24:35.174Speaker 24 (Community Hall): AB130 has some very strict rules. One of them is, is the prop… is the project in it.
1814
04:24:35.175 --> 04:24:53.534
Speaker 33 (Community Hall): earthquake zone, and here it is, here's the… and it has to be an official map published by the state geologist, and so here we are, right, right there. So in an earthquake zone, yeah, you know, a developer used the August Criollo map, which is also a state geologist one, but they're always behind, so here you go, there they are.
181504:24:54.285 --> 04:24:55.665
Speaker 33 (Community Hall): Now…
181604:24:56.575 --> 04:25:09.615Speaker 33 (Community Hall): The other thing is, you've heard a lot about this tonight, about these three things that you need to do to… the loophole for fire. I mean, some cities say you can't do it at all. Where's Cupertino's policy, by the way? But anyway.
1817
04:25:09.875 --> 04:25:20.744
Speaker 33 (Community Hall): there's three requirements, only one of them was met, and you know, in my
opinion, the developer used… used these guys, our fire guys, as patsies, you know? Because…
181804:25:20.965 --> 04:25:23.534Speaker 33 (Community Hall): The architectural site approval, Thomas?
1819
04:25:23.535 --> 04:25:47.014
Speaker 33 (Community Hall): That has nothing to do with… with AB130, and nor does… and the AMR was
insufficient. And of course, Katie Moore mentioned the USTs, I also did in my comments, but she found lots
of stuff on there. And by the way, there was a retroactive building print for the, for the removal of those tanks, which I found to be somewhat concerning when I did the building department a while back. You've already heard this tonight, you know.
182004:25:47.015 --> 04:25:49.574
Speaker 33 (Community Hall): 10 feet does not equal 30.
1821
04:25:49.685 --> 04:25:50.635Speaker 33 (Community Hall): Okay?
182204:25:50.845 --> 04:25:58.485Speaker 33 (Community Hall): That's what they're saying, but if there's a fire and an earthquake, and there's
likely no water, and then the exterior sprinklers won't, within 30 feet, won't work.
1823
04:25:58.515 --> 04:26:23.245Speaker 33 (Community Hall): Okay? We already… we're already getting… our water mains are already failing without the assistance of earthquakes. So, you know, and this is… this is why we… this is why we
need CEQA. It has to do with cumulative… cumulative impacts. The use of the AMR was… was… was
improper. It should only be used for ex… exceptional circumstances. Again, fires treated like patsies. They said, oh, well, it was because of, design constraints. Yeah, because this was built
1824
04:26:23.245 --> 04:26:27.595
Speaker 33 (Community Hall): because of profits. So… Here's my last slide, please read it. Thank you.
182504:26:28.165 --> 04:26:33.435Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Rhoda. Mayor, that concludes the request to speak in person. We will move
1826
04:26:33.895 --> 04:26:37.775
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): To those hands raised virtually at this time.
182704:26:37.955 --> 04:26:46.944Speaker 17 (Community Hall): We have 8 requests to speak virtually that made it within the first 9 minutes of the public comment period. At this time, we're going to welcome Dennis Martin.
1828
04:26:51.450 --> 04:27:07.619
Dennis Martin: Good evening, Mayor and members of the Council. I'm Dennis Martin, speaking on behalf of
the Building Industry Association of the Bay Area. I call your attention to the BIA letter from our General
Counsel submitted earlier today regarding AB712.
182904:27:07.730 --> 04:27:22.830Dennis Martin: AB712, which took effect January 1st, fundamentally changes the risk to cities that choose to deny housing in violation of state law. The consequences are no longer theoretical, they are automatic, significant, and unavoidable.
1830
04:27:22.830 --> 04:27:30.269Dennis Martin: First, if the city denies the project and loses in court, you will be required to pay the applicant's attorney fees and costs.
183104:27:30.270 --> 04:27:36.550Dennis Martin: There is no requirement for bad faith, no legal escape hatch. If the city is wrong, taxpayers
pay.
183204:27:36.800 --> 04:27:45.950Dennis Martin: Second, because the city has already received written warnings from the state, specifically from the Department of Housing and Community Development.
183304:27:46.070 --> 04:27:53.569
Dennis Martin: those consequences escalate dramatically. If the city proceeds with a denial that is found and
violates state laws, like
183404:27:53.680 --> 04:27:58.870Dennis Martin: the Housing Accountability Act, the No Net Loss Law, or AB130,
183504:27:59.020 --> 04:28:04.359Dennis Martin: The City will face mandatory fines of at least $10,000 per unit.
1836
04:28:04.660 --> 04:28:23.040
Dennis Martin: And third, AB712 imposes a second strike. If the city repeats this mistake during the current
housing cycle and loses again on the same law, those fines jump to $50,000 per unit. That's a $2.5 million liability on this project.
183704:28:23.330 --> 04:28:35.030Dennis Martin: Again, borne by the public. The legislature passed AB712 for one reason, to stop cities from ignoring state housing law without consequence. Those days are over.
1838
04:28:35.240 --> 04:28:54.760Dennis Martin: So the choice before you tonight is not only a land use decision, it's a legal and fiscal one, with very real exposure for the city. BIA strongly urges you to follow state law, heed the state's written guidance, and avoid putting Cupertino taxpayers at a necessary and substantial risk. Thank you.
183904:28:57.380 --> 04:29:04.290
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you. Next, we will welcome Louis Marante, followed by Andrew Paul,
followed by Lynn Yon. Welcome, Lewis.
184004:29:10.380 --> 04:29:11.600Louis Mirante: Good evening.
184104:29:13.710 --> 04:29:14.540
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Good evening.
184204:29:14.880 --> 04:29:27.510Louis Mirante: Great, you can hear me. Sorry about that. Good evening. My name is Luis Marante. I am here on behalf of the Bay Area Council, representing about 350 of the region's largest employers. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight.
1843
04:29:27.700 --> 04:29:31.939
Louis Mirante: We're here tonight in support of the Linda Vista Drive townhome project.
184404:29:32.220 --> 04:29:51.980Louis Mirante: I'd first like to share some context for why projects like this one matter so much to us. The National Association of Realtors recently reported that the median age of a first-time home buyer in this country has reached 40 years old, an all-time high. First-time buyers now account for a record low 21% of all home purchases.
1845
04:29:52.070 --> 04:29:57.300
Louis Mirante: And here in the Bay Area, only about 1 in 5 households can afford the median-priced home.
1846
04:29:57.820 --> 04:30:16.259
Louis Mirante: And the region has accumulated a shortfall of hundreds of thousands of units over the past two decades. Even with the mandates now in place, various cities have collectively permitted only 8-11% of their required units a quarter of the way through our current Rena cycle.
1847
04:30:16.580 --> 04:30:25.609
Louis Mirante: The people being squeezed out are younger workers and families who want to put down roots
in the communities where they work, and where they have loved ones, and where they've grown up.
184804:30:26.160 --> 04:30:39.609Louis Mirante: Cupertino is home to some of the most important employers on Earth, and that is something to be proud of. But our member companies tell us consistently that the cost and scarcity of housing is a top factor driving talent out of the Bay Area.
1849
04:30:39.830 --> 04:30:52.590Louis Mirante: When a city with this concentration of jobs doesn't produce housing, the consequences show up across the entire region in longer commutes, worse congestion, and displaced workers. This project is a meaningful step towards changing that.
185004:30:53.070 --> 04:31:07.490
Louis Mirante: The site is a priority housing site, the city's own certified housing element. It delivers 51
ownership townhomes, including 10 below-market units, exactly the kind of for-sale, family-sized housing
the South Bay needs the most.
185104:31:07.950 --> 04:31:20.480Louis Mirante: This housing project is one that it goes above and beyond what the minimum requirements are, both in local ordinance and state law, and I urge your approval for the project tonight. Thank you.
1852
04:31:22.620 --> 04:31:27.420
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you. Next, we will go to Andrew Kaw, followed by Lynn Yan.
185304:31:27.590 --> 04:31:29.960Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Followed by Lisa Warren. Welcome, Andrew.
1854
04:31:34.000 --> 04:31:36.230
Andrew Kau: Good evening, council members. Can you hear me?
185504:31:36.680 --> 04:31:37.450Speaker 17 (Community Hall): We can.
185604:31:37.770 --> 04:31:50.349
Andrew Kau: Perfect. Again, good evening, Councilmembers. My name is Andrew Cow. I'm a resident of the
Linda Vista neighborhood. I'd like to take a moment today to address the conflict of issues, of interest issues
raised at the opening of the City Council meeting.
185704:31:50.670 --> 04:32:03.240
Andrew Kau: The current revision of the California Political Reform Act, Regulation Section 18702.2, defines
material financial interest in a governmental decision as owning property located between 500 to 1,000 feet from a parcel.
1858
04:32:03.410 --> 04:32:11.780
Andrew Kau: Where the decision would alter the parcel's character by substantially altering traffic levels,
intensity of views, parking, view, privacy, and or noise level.
185904:32:11.910 --> 04:32:14.849Andrew Kau: These are all things that have been discussed at length.
1860
04:32:14.890 --> 04:32:33.639
Andrew Kau: Councilwoman Sheila Mohan's residence, as stated, is 959 feet from the Evelitch Court property
line. Based on her statements today, she would have us believe that construction of 51 homes, the
introduction over 100 cards, less than 2 minutes away from her property won't have an effect on it. It just doesn't pass the smell test.
186104:32:33.860 --> 04:32:41.270Andrew Kau: Pursuant to the rules of the California FPPC, the Councilwoman has a material financial interest in this decision, and she needs to recuse herself.
1862
04:32:41.720 --> 04:32:54.779Andrew Kau: Earlier today, the City Attorney General stated that she and the Councilwoman did not have time to consult with the Cal FPBC prior to this meeting. Respectively, I'd disagree with that assessment. You haven't even reached out, let alone requested a formal assessment here.
186304:32:54.980 --> 04:33:02.009
Andrew Kau: This issue was continued from a City Council meeting two weeks ago. This is plenty of prior
notes. It doesn't take two weeks to make a phone call.
186404:33:02.500 --> 04:33:08.729Andrew Kau: Furthermore, the city attorney also stated that she believes the Councilwoman's recusal would be a disservice to our democracy.
1865
04:33:08.930 --> 04:33:11.680
Andrew Kau: I believe this case demonstrates the exact opposite.
186604:33:11.910 --> 04:33:20.890Andrew Kau: The appearance of impartiality from our duly elected representatives is just as critical for confidence in our democracy as our civic duty to vote or contribute.
1867
04:33:21.529 --> 04:33:33.019
Andrew Kau: Councilwoman Mohan, your peers on this City Council have recused themselves admirably and
ethically in similar situations before. I implore you to follow their precedent. Do the right thing. Recuse
yourself from this vote.
1868
04:33:33.669 --> 04:33:36.239
Andrew Kau: Thank you, and thank you, Councilmembers, for your time.
186904:33:38.000 --> 04:33:44.829Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Andrew. Next, we welcome Lynn Yon, followed by Lisa Warren,
followed by Nicholas Kaw. Welcome, Lynn.
187004:33:48.020 --> 04:33:49.239Lin Yuan: Hello, can you hear me?
187104:33:49.830 --> 04:33:50.830Speaker 17 (Community Hall): We can hear you.
1872
04:33:51.490 --> 04:34:03.139Lin Yuan: Thank you. Good evening, everyone. This is Lin Yuan. I'm a Cupertino resident. I think, number one, yeah, I'd like to request the same thing. Whomever has a conflict of interest should be recused from this voting.
187304:34:03.740 --> 04:34:11.859
Lin Yuan: The other thing I think I heard, there could be consequences, the city could be fined if they reject
this project whatsoever.
187404:34:11.970 --> 04:34:23.039Lin Yuan: I think, in the meantime, if this is for public safety, if it has to do with life and death, this is something worth fighting for, and it cannot be measured by money at all.
1875
04:34:23.660 --> 04:34:28.929
Lin Yuan: So, in this project, people say, oh, it's only adding 2 minutes of evacuation time.
187604:34:29.070 --> 04:34:32.640Lin Yuan: That's almost like asking, can you run 20 yards?
187704:34:32.910 --> 04:34:37.590
Lin Yuan: Well, I think many of us can, but for somebody who is already in ICU,
187804:34:37.720 --> 04:34:40.000Lin Yuan: You know, about to die, they cannot.
187904:34:40.160 --> 04:34:47.020Lin Yuan: And that's exactly the same situation as the traffic here as it is today. It is already very much sick.
1880
04:34:47.520 --> 04:34:51.259Lin Yuan: to get from Ivy League Court to 7-Eleven.
1881
04:34:51.610 --> 04:34:57.050
Lin Yuan: 8am to 9am, 2PM to 4 p.m. It takes about…
188204:34:57.360 --> 04:35:03.000Lin Yuan: 15-20 minutes. Which, in a normal time, it should be 2 minutes, 3 minutes.
1883
04:35:03.860 --> 04:35:07.530Lin Yuan: So, if it were to happen, you know, any wildfire, it were to happen.
188404:35:07.750 --> 04:35:13.230Lin Yuan: I mean, it could happen anytime. It's not like average, oh, because, oh, average evacuation time. There's no average.
1885
04:35:13.490 --> 04:35:15.609Lin Yuan: The fire doesn't happen in the average way.
188604:35:15.820 --> 04:35:20.390Lin Yuan: We should target for the peak capacity, the peak demand.
1887
04:35:20.630 --> 04:35:25.480
Lin Yuan: And then we should target that, not average. The additional average in a fire disaster.
188804:35:26.009 --> 04:35:37.499Lin Yuan: So that's the immediate impact of the neighborhood, you know, safety-related. I urge the City Council to take a closer look at all those safety measures, making sure all these residents have… can rest assured.
1889
04:35:37.800 --> 04:35:50.370Lin Yuan: Otherwise, I would, yeah, I mean, I would ask for a bond for this… from the city or from the developer to buy off from those neighbors who will opt to sell their house and move to a safer place to live in.
189004:35:50.509 --> 04:35:51.340
Lin Yuan: Thank you.
189104:35:54.160 --> 04:35:55.020Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you.
189204:35:55.990 --> 04:36:01.709Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Next, we will welcome Lisa Warren, followed by Nicholas Kaw, followed by
Stephen Scharf. Welcome, Nicholas.
189304:36:08.390 --> 04:36:09.800Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Nicholas, are you there?
1894
04:36:09.990 --> 04:36:11.759Nicholas Kau: Yes, could you pull up my slides?
1895
04:36:12.099 --> 04:36:13.099
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Yes.
189604:36:21.160 --> 04:36:41.159Nicholas Kau: Well, that's been pulled up. Good evening, Councilmembers. Today, I'll be discussing three fundamental issues that directly impact the safety, privacy, and quality of life for existing residents. Privacy violations, fire safety concerns, and the interface risk between new and existing homes. What I've shown over here is a letter I got from the Santa Clara County Fire Department that I'll talk next. Next slide.
1897
04:36:42.349 --> 04:37:02.260
Nicholas Kau: First, let's talk about the privacy impacts, right? The Provo's development includes upper-story windows that will directly face neighboring homes. These elevated sight signs will completely eliminate privacy for existing yards, and even the Cupertino Club swimming pool. Imagine losing the privacy of your own backyard simply because new construction towers over your property.
189804:37:02.259 --> 04:37:14.659
Nicholas Kau: Second, we have serious fire safety concerns related to height, massing, and setbacks. The
proposed building significantly exceeds the surrounding 1 to 2 story contacts. Let me be clear, 2,000 square
foot homes are not starter homes, as claimed.
189904:37:14.660 --> 04:37:26.989Nicholas Kau: The vertical mass positioned near property lines creates problematic shadowing, visual dominance, and most critically, safety hazards. Multi-story structures radiateize much higher lead loads during fires, putting existing homes at greater risk.
1900
04:37:26.990 --> 04:37:35.060
Nicholas Kau: In fact, the Summerhill Project Plan is fundamentally inconsistent with Santa Clara County Fire Department safety recommendations, as documented before.
190104:37:35.349 --> 04:37:40.100Nicholas Kau: Third, there are significant interfaces risks between the new and existing homes, including
noise.
1902
04:37:40.210 --> 04:37:46.050Nicholas Kau: Transmission issues and endocratic height transitions that will negatively impact established neighborhood characters.
190304:37:46.230 --> 04:37:47.300
Nicholas Kau: Next slide.
1904
04:37:47.890 --> 04:38:00.429Nicholas Kau: To address this concern, we're requesting five specific approvals. One, implement a two-story limit, roof eaves not exceeding 25 feet with adjacent R1 residential homes. Two, prohibit windows facing
existing residents to break privacy.
1905
04:38:00.439 --> 04:38:13.210
Nicholas Kau: 3. Require a minimum of 15-foot setback. 4. Install 8-foot fire-resistant Class A perimeter fence. And five, ensure fence construction ongoing maintenance is funded by the development's homeowners Association, not burning existing residents.
190604:38:13.660 --> 04:38:29.400
Nicholas Kau: I'd also like to address the recurring argument that I've heard tonight in favor of the proposal.
Housing, and more importantly, affordable housing, to first-time homebuyers, those who have young
children, or plan to have young children, is very much needed in this area. But are any of these individuals
being able to afford a 2,700 square foot Summerhill starter mansion?
190704:38:29.400 --> 04:38:31.630Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Nicholas, that is your time.
1908
04:38:32.189 --> 04:38:32.719
Nicholas Kau: Thank you.
190904:38:34.910 --> 04:38:47.810Speaker 17 (Community Hall): So, next we're gonna… sorry, sorry, Steven, we're gonna go to Lisa Warren, because she was before you, and she dropped to the bottom of my screen. So, we'll go, Lisa, and then to you, Steven. Thank you for your patience. Welcome, Lisa.
1910
04:38:52.099 --> 04:38:55.079
Lisa Warren: Thank you. So…
191104:38:58.199 --> 04:39:01.309Lisa Warren: I think the neighbors need to be listened to.
1912
04:39:01.449 --> 04:39:07.789
Lisa Warren: I… I'm gonna waste time. Let me just get to my most important points.
191304:39:09.549 --> 04:39:17.019Lisa Warren: First, I don't want to forget to say that I believe it was a mistake to consider…
1914
04:39:17.929 --> 04:39:26.949
Lisa Warren: the park-trail connection, and I think that should not be part of this project. We need the
money for our parks. As the mayor stated, this feels like a private
191504:39:27.089 --> 04:39:33.639Lisa Warren: road, and how many people in the neighborhood will go through there to use it. Will it just be a perk for the people that live there?
1916
04:39:33.749 --> 04:39:35.159
Lisa Warren: If it happens.
191704:39:36.879 --> 04:39:43.259Lisa Warren: Secondly, what I'm hearing sums up to a bigger problem than this development.
1918
04:39:43.479 --> 04:39:51.549
Lisa Warren: In my eyes, The fact that the city does not have an evacuation analysis or a plan
191904:39:51.829 --> 04:39:54.569Lisa Warren: For an area like this and other areas.
1920
04:39:54.989 --> 04:39:59.299
Lisa Warren: For the entire city, probably, but starting here, most likely.
192104:39:59.809 --> 04:40:01.699Lisa Warren: Needs to be addressed.
1922
04:40:02.009 --> 04:40:04.039
Lisa Warren: That is the bigger problem.
192304:40:05.119 --> 04:40:23.209Lisa Warren: people wouldn't be worried about this as much if there was a plan that was feasible for people to get out safely. I'm very familiar, I have experience, personal experience, with the 2020 CZU fire, and I'm very familiar with the destruction from wildfires and the ordeals
1924
04:40:23.349 --> 04:40:28.199
Lisa Warren: of the aftermath, And that is when there was no loss of life.
192504:40:30.259 --> 04:40:32.459Lisa Warren: Does… people…
1926
04:40:32.669 --> 04:40:40.909
Lisa Warren: This last guy just talked about how unaffordable this would be, which is the realistic thing. It is
not going to be the affordable housing that people are
192704:40:41.299 --> 04:40:46.469Lisa Warren: chiming in about. It is not. Get realistic. And even if it is.
1928
04:40:47.559 --> 04:40:59.759
Lisa Warren: Buyers may not, most likely, will not be able to get insurance on these properties. You can't get
a loan unless you can get an insurance, and insurance is so expensive, it's not affordable, if you can get it.
192904:40:59.760 --> 04:41:03.830Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Lisa. That is your time. Next, we will welcome Stephen Scharf.
193004:41:07.450 --> 04:41:08.870Steven Scharf: Hi, can you hear me?
1931
04:41:09.110 --> 04:41:10.240
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): We can hear you.
193204:41:10.240 --> 04:41:27.419Steven Scharf: Thank you. Steven Scharf, I serve on the Planning Commission. Guess I'm speaking partly as a Planning Commission member, partly for myself. I wanted to make one correction. Earlier tonight, someone on city staff stated that the Planning Commission would have voted unanimously in favor of
1933
04:41:27.650 --> 04:41:34.709
Steven Scharf: The project, if not for the proposed impact fee reduction, to pay for the cost of providing trail access.
193404:41:34.970 --> 04:41:43.319Steven Scharf: I was surprised to hear this. This was not an accurate statement. Planning Commissioner Santosh Rao made the same point earlier when he spoke.
1935
04:41:43.610 --> 04:41:51.040Steven Scharf: I do understand the confusion. The resolution should have been separated with the vote for the CEQA exemption being considered separately.
193604:41:51.510 --> 04:42:00.280Steven Scharf: Personally, I would have voted against the CEQA exemption because I did not believe that
under state law, it qualified for an AB130 CEQA exemption.
193704:42:00.410 --> 04:42:01.889Steven Scharf: That's all, thank you.
193804:42:04.230 --> 04:42:07.960Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Steven. Next, we will welcome Leah… Chung?
1939
04:42:08.330 --> 04:42:26.080Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Followed by, Shuba did join, virtually, and, we do have one other speaker virtually, but their hand was raised after the 9-minute cutoff, so we will go to, Leah Chung, followed by Shuba, and that will conclude the request to speak.
194004:42:26.560 --> 04:42:28.299
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): So welcome, Leah.
194104:42:32.170 --> 04:42:32.900Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Huh?
1942
04:42:36.780 --> 04:42:40.320Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Leah, Leah Chung, are you… can you hear us?
1943
04:42:42.030 --> 04:42:42.979
Lia Chung: Yes, I can hear you.
194404:42:42.980 --> 04:42:44.660Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Okay, great, we can hear you too.
194504:42:46.150 --> 04:42:47.359
Lia Chung: Alright, thank you.
1946
04:42:47.510 --> 04:42:53.549Lia Chung: Good evening, Council. I'm a resident of Cupertino and a student at Monta Vista High.
194704:42:53.760 --> 04:43:00.359Lia Chung: This project site sits within a very high fire risk zone, one of the most dangerous designations a
landscape can have.
1948
04:43:00.520 --> 04:43:07.899Lia Chung: The research has been done. If we increase the density, we would be creating a bottleneck where evacuation routes are already narrow and limited.
194904:43:08.170 --> 04:43:16.250
Lia Chung: During a fire, every car added is a direct threat to a successful evacuation. We cannot ignore the
physical reality of our geography.
195004:43:16.590 --> 04:43:27.279Lia Chung: A quote from our state attorney general states, local governments have a responsibility to address wildfire risks associated with new development projects early in the planning process.
1951
04:43:27.560 --> 04:43:31.690
Lia Chung: When changes… To these projects can still be made.
195204:43:31.990 --> 04:43:43.669Lia Chung: The climate crisis is here, and with it comes increasingly frequent and severe wildfires that force mass evacuations, destroy homes, and lead to the devastating loss of life.
1953
04:43:43.940 --> 04:43:56.119
Lia Chung: We must build a way that recognizes this reality. This guidance is intended to provide local
governments with concrete consideration and specific mitigation measures for new development in wildfire-
prone areas.
195404:43:56.330 --> 04:44:02.840
Lia Chung: So that 5, 10, or 20 years down the line, we aren't faced with a catastrophe that could have been
avoided.
195504:44:04.440 --> 04:44:05.480Lia Chung: End quote.
1956
04:44:05.790 --> 04:44:17.839Lia Chung: I urge to prioritize the safety of this community and deny the proposal. To approve this project without a comprehensive, updated plan for emergency escape routes is an unacceptable risk.
195704:44:17.980 --> 04:44:35.330Lia Chung: The main rebuttal is that this project supports an increase in population, but we would be putting
said population in danger by doing so. Please hear the argument as it is. I am not against more housing. I
am against the idea of allowing human lives to be the cost of this project. Thank you.
195804:44:37.900 --> 04:44:52.819Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you. Our last speaker will be Shuba, and to the other person with their hand raised, your hand was raised after the 9-minute cutoff, so Shubha will be our last speaker to speak on this item.
1959
04:44:53.340 --> 04:44:54.720
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Welcome, Shuba.
196004:44:56.510 --> 04:45:13.940Shubha Raghvendra: Hello! Hi, City Council. Thank you for your time and your attention to this important matter. My name is Shoba Raghavendra. I grew up in Cupertino on Baxley Court, which is just hundreds of feet away from Evelich, and my family will be very directly impacted by the proposed development.
1961
04:45:14.620 --> 04:45:19.339
Shubha Raghvendra: City Council, I want you to do the right thing here, and to follow the laws of the land.
196204:45:19.510 --> 04:45:30.799Shubha Raghvendra: AB130 seems to be a sledgehammer that's supposed to solve all of our problems. Please keep in mind that new laws, as written, are sometimes flawed and need to be tested in courts.
1963
04:45:31.150 --> 04:45:38.059
Shubha Raghvendra: In particular, the intersection of AB130 and very high fire hazard is new territory.
196404:45:38.410 --> 04:45:49.090Shubha Raghvendra: Common sense says that you should not put high-density housing in very high fire hazard areas. I suspect that even the authors of AB130 did not
1965
04:45:49.460 --> 04:45:56.949
Shubha Raghvendra: intend for this outcome, that builders would cynically use this law to build in areas that are not safe for high-density housing.
1966
04:45:57.300 --> 04:46:01.480Shubha Raghvendra: I urge you to use common sense to rule against this development.
1967
04:46:02.020 --> 04:46:19.349
Shubha Raghvendra: It's disappointing to me that the Summerhill attorneys, you know, effectively
threatened litigation and cost to Cupertino, and suggested that the only option was to vote for this housing
development. Please know that not only is this not the case.
196804:46:19.570 --> 04:46:31.930Shubha Raghvendra: But also that you'll have the support of the community that is mobilized against this poorly thought out, development if litigation were to, to follow.
1969
04:46:33.290 --> 04:46:49.059
Shubha Raghvendra: You know, I also just want to make a couple points. Like, the nature of the conversation that we've had here, what Summerhill has been complaining about here is truck hours, and the fact that they've been made to reduce three-story buildings to two-stories.
197004:46:49.060 --> 04:46:55.179Shubha Raghvendra: On the other side of the other column, we've been worried about fire risk, toxic
chemicals.
197104:46:55.190 --> 04:47:02.119Shubha Raghvendra: And conflicts of interest. Just weigh the… weigh the pros and cons here, and notice how different the two sides are.
197204:47:02.620 --> 04:47:04.199
Shubha Raghvendra: Thank you for the time.
197304:47:04.590 --> 04:47:07.870Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you. Mayor, that concludes the request to speak on this item.
197404:47:07.875 --> 04:47:22.855Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. We are going to be taking a break now, and I have an
announcement. This is not an April's joke. We have four pizzas out in the lobby, provided by Councilmember
Wong, so please, wash your hands and go have some pizza.
197504:47:22.855 --> 04:47:23.685Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And two more coming.
197604:47:23.685 --> 04:47:27.604
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Two more coming from the city, and two more. And two more coming, alright.
Alright.
197704:47:30.090 --> 04:47:31.610Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Huh, gotta do it.
197804:47:32.240 --> 04:47:34.779Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You're looking hungry. I am hungry.
1979
04:47:35.070 --> 04:47:37.160
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I might not get you to recuse, but I can get you to eat.
198004:47:37.165 --> 04:47:39.911Speaker 20 (Community Hall): How's that?
1981
04:57:19.050 --> 04:57:25.170
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): No.
198204:57:25.170 --> 04:57:34.829Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, Council, we are all present, we are reconvening, so we're going to have one more round for
1983
04:57:35.540 --> 04:57:37.080
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Questions.
198404:57:37.710 --> 04:58:00.090Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And should there not be any more clarifying questions, they should have all been answered given the amount of time that we had. But if there are any further clarifying questions asked now, I'm closing the public hearing otherwise, and then we'll begin our deliberations, perhaps with a motion.
1985
04:58:00.150 --> 04:58:03.120
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, is there… you…
198604:58:03.390 --> 04:58:08.910Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Vice Mayor, you have a clarifying question, and I have another hand raised from Councilmember Thruen.
1987
04:58:09.490 --> 04:58:10.080
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Right?
198804:58:10.240 --> 04:58:16.850Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yeah, okay, first of all, it's the earthquake fault zone issue.
1989
04:58:17.000 --> 04:58:24.479
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That, I think on one map, it shows that Avalh Court is outside the…
199004:58:25.630 --> 04:58:33.639Speaker 4 (Community Hall): fault zone, but on another map, it seems to be within 300 feet of Montel Vista fault line.
199104:58:33.740 --> 04:58:38.720Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, do I have any explanation on… About those maps?
1992
04:58:40.920 --> 04:58:43.130
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And here, you know…
199304:58:43.380 --> 04:58:54.360Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Yes, our firm did, quick analysis on that, based upon the map that was included in public comments that came in.
1994
04:58:54.430 --> 04:59:09.100
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And, it turns out that, the official geological organization, of the state produces
more than one map. They map all, various different fault lines and different maps,
199504:59:09.100 --> 04:59:20.580Speaker 2 (Community Hall): For different purposes. And the specific map that, is called for in the statute, is the map that shows active fault lines.
1996
04:59:20.820 --> 04:59:34.889
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And, we produced a memo, a confidential memo to Council that shows that the active fault lines in the area are not beneath the Avalich property. They're quite a ways away.
199704:59:34.895 --> 04:59:41.024Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The government code section says ending any formal map.
1998
04:59:42.035 --> 04:59:43.415
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That's.
199904:59:44.400 --> 04:59:50.769Speaker 2 (Community Hall): From the state. Let me just take a look at this. Let's see…
2000
04:59:58.570 --> 05:00:01.110
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Such delimited earthquake fault zones.
200105:00:01.330 --> 05:00:05.109Speaker 2 (Community Hall): are what are contemplated in the language of AB130.
2002
05:00:17.420 --> 05:00:21.489
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Oh, I think only official maps. That's the language.
200305:00:23.800 --> 05:00:38.069Speaker 2 (Community Hall): To determine the location of these delineated earthquake fault zones, the State Geological Geologist publishes a map with Alquist Prolio, however you pronounce that, fault zones depicted
on them, and available for public review.
2004
05:00:38.920 --> 05:00:47.670
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): So I figure they're just supposed to be showing the AlQuest proolo fault zones. And,
200505:00:48.970 --> 05:00:52.570Speaker 2 (Community Hall): The item showing those fault zones…
2006
05:00:52.890 --> 05:01:06.309
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): indicates that there isn't a fault zone underneath the property. Yeah. And then, based upon a review of the aforementioned fault zones, the state geologist has not delineated
200705:01:06.310 --> 05:01:20.740Speaker 2 (Community Hall): the Monte Vista fault as an earthquake fault line that meets the standards in
Public Resources Code Section 2622, Subdivision A, as, quote, sufficiently active and well-defined.
2008
05:01:21.090 --> 05:01:35.800Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Title 14 of the California Code of Regulations, Section 3601, explains that a fault is active when the fault has had surface displacement within Holocene time, about the last 11th
200905:01:36.180 --> 05:01:42.839
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Thousand years, hence constituting a potential hazard to structures that might
be located across it.
201005:01:43.080 --> 05:01:46.079Speaker 2 (Community Hall): The other maps include
201105:01:46.460 --> 05:01:58.680
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): fault lines that have not been active for approximately 700,000 years. And so
those fault lines are not of concern, in terms of being underneath the land.
201205:02:02.400 --> 05:02:09.770Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Okay, so I'm sharing my screen where… here… highlighted here is the language.
2013
05:02:10.450 --> 05:02:13.160
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That's in the AP130.
201405:02:13.340 --> 05:02:22.919Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We think a delineated earthquake fault zone, as determined by the state geologist in any official maps.
2015
05:02:23.150 --> 05:02:25.799
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Published by the State Geologist.
201605:02:25.805 --> 05:02:33.305Speaker 2 (Community Hall): This memo references, Public Resources Code Section 2622, Subdivision A. Let's take a look at it.
2017
05:02:34.020 --> 05:02:37.650
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, are you saying the… the stage…
201805:02:38.200 --> 05:02:46.169Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I don't understand what exactly is delineated in the fall zone, but where does it say that only the active
2019
05:02:46.440 --> 05:02:53.330
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Once… You are saying… Montevista fault is not active.
202005:02:54.120 --> 05:03:05.589Speaker 2 (Community Hall): The Public Resources Code reads, in order to assist cities and counties in their planning, zoning, and building regulation functions, the state geologist shall delineate approximately
2021
05:03:05.770 --> 05:03:12.749
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): appropriately wide earthquake fault zones to encompass all potentially and recently active
202205:03:12.750 --> 05:03:30.850Speaker 2 (Community Hall): traces of the San Andreas, Calaveras, Howard, Hayward, and San Jacinto faults, and such other faults or segments thereof, as the satiologist determines to be sufficiently active and
well-defined as to constitute a potential hazard to structures from surface
202305:03:30.890 --> 05:03:32.849Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Faulting or fault creep.
202405:03:33.020 --> 05:03:45.919Speaker 2 (Community Hall): The earthquake fault zone shall ordinarily be 1 quarter mile or less in width,
except in circumstances which may require the state geologist to designate a wider zone.
202505:03:46.020 --> 05:03:56.760Speaker 2 (Community Hall): So, our analysis suggests that this section of the Public Resources Code is referencing, fault zones that
202605:03:58.440 --> 05:04:07.980
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): encompass… Active traces of those faults that I described. Okay.
202705:04:08.190 --> 05:04:15.700Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That's fine. Next question is regarding the… So I… Hmm?
2028
05:04:15.930 --> 05:04:17.470Speaker 4 (Community Hall): How do I share? Oh.
2029
05:04:17.620 --> 05:04:18.860
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Stop share.
203005:04:19.480 --> 05:04:20.050Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Okay.
203105:04:20.050 --> 05:04:23.009
Pam Lee, Item #3: Pardon me, could I add something to that as well?
2032
05:04:23.490 --> 05:04:24.230Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Okay.
203305:04:24.490 --> 05:04:26.110Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Who… is that…
2034
05:04:26.110 --> 05:04:27.630
Speaker 27 (Community Hall): Oh, yes.
203505:04:27.635 --> 05:04:31.385Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Family, please, thank you. My apologies.
2036
05:04:31.390 --> 05:04:39.179
Pam Lee, Item #3: Apologies. Thank you, my senior members of the City Council. I'd like to add that AB130,
with respect to.
203705:04:40.820 --> 05:04:51.900Pam Lee, Item #3: Compliance under section, Government Code 65913.4, the part that you quoted, requiring…
2038
05:04:52.130 --> 05:04:59.319
Pam Lee, Item #3: That it be determined, you know, the earthquake fault zone being determined by any state geologist and any official
203905:04:59.460 --> 05:05:06.870Pam Lee, Item #3: any official map published by the state geologist. The… Caveat to that is.
2040
05:05:07.380 --> 05:05:11.130
Pam Lee, Item #3: It's not allowed to be within an earthquake fault zone.
204105:05:11.230 --> 05:05:12.090
Pam Lee, Item #3: as…
2042
05:05:12.140 --> 05:05:31.399
Pam Lee, Item #3: listed on any official map. That is correct. However, the caveat to that is unless the development complies with applicable seismic protection building code standards adopted by the California Building Code Standards Commission, and I believe that based on the review of the compliance,
204305:05:32.160 --> 05:05:37.609
Pam Lee, Item #3: And how the buildings, structures, and facilities at the proposed development
2044
05:05:38.490 --> 05:05:51.010Pam Lee, Item #3: are constructed, or will be constructed, I believe they should comply with all the applicable building codes under state law, with respect to earthquake readiness, and seismic
204505:05:52.910 --> 05:06:02.219
Pam Lee, Item #3: readiness, and so I think that is what would exempt this project under AB130 with
respect to earthquake fault zones.
204605:06:05.600 --> 05:06:06.290Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Okay.
204705:06:07.360 --> 05:06:15.369
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Thank you. So, next… This is a slide from the applicant regarding the specific
section
204805:06:15.480 --> 05:06:22.529Speaker 4 (Community Hall): of… from AB130 that… About the very high fire severity zone.
204905:06:22.840 --> 05:06:30.490
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So… It's supposed to… So the…
2050
05:06:30.600 --> 05:06:34.469Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Within a very high fire severity zone,
205105:06:34.660 --> 05:06:38.210Speaker 4 (Community Hall): they should not get the AP130 exemption.
2052
05:06:38.310 --> 05:06:44.370
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Except, here is a carve-out. This paragraph does not apply to sites.
205305:06:44.670 --> 05:06:45.770Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Saints.
2054
05:06:46.220 --> 05:06:59.389
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): that have adopted fire hazard mitigation measures, personal to existing
standards and so on, and then three items listed. I've been trying to comprehend this.
205505:06:59.460 --> 05:07:17.120Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I asked about what are these adopted fire hazardous mitigation measures, and
the city staff pointed me to the November… the November 4th City Council meeting when we adopted the
building code.
205605:07:17.190 --> 05:07:19.500Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So I went to look at
205705:07:20.060 --> 05:07:26.930
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The build… the staff report, and then the resolution that we have adopted.
205805:07:27.180 --> 05:07:34.630Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Nowhere does it mention that the adopted mitigation major would exempt
205905:07:34.870 --> 05:07:38.280Speaker 4 (Community Hall): a very high fire severity zone from CEQA.
2060
05:07:38.850 --> 05:07:39.730Speaker 4 (Community Hall): at all.
206105:07:40.360 --> 05:07:44.760Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Then, the staff report states,
2062
05:07:44.960 --> 05:07:56.489
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): that the intent is to have consistency in the application of codes related to fire safety. The amendments have been provided to all cities.
206305:07:56.490 --> 05:08:08.590Speaker 4 (Community Hall): within Santa Clara County Fair Department jurisdiction, as well as surrounding county jurisdiction, to be included in their respective code adoption for consistency of enforcement.
2064
05:08:08.880 --> 05:08:13.880Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Plans submitted after January 1st will be required to comply with the new
206505:08:14.480 --> 05:08:27.140Speaker 4 (Community Hall): California 2025 California Code, along with local adopted amendments. So my understanding at that time was, we are just adopting some major, some
2066
05:08:27.830 --> 05:08:31.570Speaker 4 (Community Hall): local code to comply with the state code. And…
2067
05:08:32.080 --> 05:08:38.109
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I had no idea, and nowhere does it mention these are adopted majors.
206805:08:38.370 --> 05:08:39.890Speaker 4 (Community Hall): for any sites.
2069
05:08:40.050 --> 05:08:51.849Speaker 4 (Community Hall): for the entire city, so that they could become adopted mitigation measures to qualify for AB130 exemption. So I don't think…
207005:08:52.120 --> 05:08:56.059Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the adopted building code from the November 3rd meeting.
2071
05:08:57.290 --> 05:08:59.129Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Meet the requirements.
207205:08:59.580 --> 05:09:05.840Speaker 4 (Community Hall): for the AB1… for the carve out created by AB130.
2073
05:09:06.270 --> 05:09:14.739
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And plus, The Planning Commission… one… I think multiple planning commissioners attended the Planning Commission Academy.
207405:09:15.780 --> 05:09:16.870Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Where?
2075
05:09:17.150 --> 05:09:28.980
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the same consultant who provided the opinion on the AB130 exemption for this project, the same consultant firm, I don't know if it's the same attorney.
207605:09:28.980 --> 05:09:39.649Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Total more than 100 planning commissioners during the meeting that very high ferrous severity zone development… developments should not
2077
05:09:40.030 --> 05:09:45.799Speaker 4 (Community Hall): be exempt from CEQA via AB130. So, apparently.
207805:09:46.010 --> 05:09:53.170Speaker 4 (Community Hall): It's not the intent of AP130 to allow cities to to allow sites.
2079
05:09:54.250 --> 05:10:07.899
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): to allow you to just adopt mitigation Major to be consistent with the state code, and then call it Mitigation Major for very high fire similarity zones.
2080
05:10:09.940 --> 05:10:11.969
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Can you help me understand?
208105:10:12.400 --> 05:10:15.339Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Where have we adopted anything that
2082
05:10:15.680 --> 05:10:27.580Speaker 4 (Community Hall): would mitigate the impact of very high fair severity zone. I looked at the adopted resolution from November 4th. Nowhere does the resolution mention very high.
208305:10:28.475 --> 05:10:42.955Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I understand that the resolution doesn't mention very high, but the resolution
does adopt the building code 7A, and the city was required by the state to adopt those. I know, those are
made.
208405:10:42.955 --> 05:10:49.024Speaker 4 (Community Hall): minimum standards. That doesn't mean they are sufficient, they are just minimum standards.
2085
05:10:49.465 --> 05:10:55.715
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): My interpretation of the statute is it…
208605:10:56.625 --> 05:11:02.474Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Says that it means to exempt very high… Fire hazard severity zones.
208705:11:02.735 --> 05:11:09.355
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): from the AB130 exemption, but then it… encompasses
208805:11:09.455 --> 05:11:22.624Speaker 2 (Community Hall): you know, most of that world and pulls it back in. And why the legislature passed legislation like that, I can't say. I agree, it's not necessarily eloquent, but I do think that that's what it means.
2089
05:11:22.625 --> 05:11:39.454
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): What's significant here is it says that this subparagraph does not apply to sites
that have adopted mitigation measures. Not just, oh, a city have adopted some mitigation measures. I
agree. We adopted some…
209005:11:40.145 --> 05:11:56.574Speaker 4 (Community Hall): fire code according to the state, but we have never adopted fire hazard mitigation measures for any specific site in Cupertino, especially any specific site in very high fire severity
zone.
2091
05:11:56.575 --> 05:12:04.564Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I think there again, the legislature was not really very eloquent in terms of their drafting. I'm not actually sure how… I'm trying to comply with.
209205:12:04.565 --> 05:12:09.315Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the law. I understand. We are all trying to comply with the law. The law has written
2093
05:12:09.995 --> 05:12:11.575
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The law as written.
209405:12:14.235 --> 05:12:24.294Speaker 4 (Community Hall): is… This subparagraph does not apply to sites that have adopted fire hazard mitigation measures.
2095
05:12:24.295 --> 05:12:28.724
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): As written. I would interpret that differently. We don't have.
209605:12:29.970 --> 05:12:38.589Speaker 4 (Community Hall): site. We don't have adopted mitigation measures for any site in Cupertino to exempt it from AB1.
2097
05:12:38.595 --> 05:12:44.915
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I think it's the other way around, that we have adopted it to apply to all sites.
209805:12:45.565 --> 05:12:53.574Speaker 2 (Community Hall): It's your interpretation? Well, and I think it's a reasonable interpretation, I think it's likely what the legislature intended.
2099
05:12:53.580 --> 05:13:01.120
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And it's what the legislature intended, because David J. Powers also mentioned that, too.
210005:13:01.410 --> 05:13:10.610Speaker 4 (Community Hall): at the Planning Commission Academy, AB113 is not meant to just be a blanket exemption for a very high fire stability zone.
2101
05:13:10.615 --> 05:13:14.374Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I think the person, Mr. Powers, is…
210205:13:14.375 --> 05:13:21.304Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I'm not asking for your opinion, actually. Now I'm just stating my opinion. Thank you. For the… yeah.
2103
05:13:21.545 --> 05:13:23.445Speaker 4 (Community Hall): There is no need to…
2104
05:13:24.875 --> 05:13:37.305
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So this is my interpretation of… I think we are all trying to comply with the law. And the HCD letter, the whole purpose of that letter is restating all the state law.
2105
05:13:37.385 --> 05:13:53.025
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And then stating that in the HGCD letter, for purposes of entitling AB130
eligible projects. It's not saying the project is… should… should… is AB130 eligible or not. It's simply saying
210605:13:53.305 --> 05:13:59.595Speaker 4 (Community Hall): If it's eligible, the CT should assume compliance with local building codes. That's it.
2107
05:14:00.175 --> 05:14:05.025
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): If CD is not telling the city, you have to find
210805:14:05.175 --> 05:14:17.555Speaker 4 (Community Hall): AB1 certification exemption. But HCD is telling us we must follow the law, and this is all I'm doing, trying to follow the law as adopted by the legislators.
2109
05:14:18.270 --> 05:14:26.349
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. Thank you, and please try to stick to clarifying questions.
Councilmember Fruen, you have some clarifying questions?
211005:14:26.355 --> 05:14:26.845Speaker 20 (Community Hall): first.
2111
05:14:27.730 --> 05:14:36.020
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): It looks like Attorney Lee has her hand up, so I would like to give her an
opportunity to speak again if she had something further to offer.
211205:14:37.190 --> 05:14:37.690Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you.
2113
05:14:37.690 --> 05:14:56.829
Pam Lee, Item #3: Thank you very much, Councilmember Fuin, and members of the Council. I would like to
add that, you know, with respect to the carve-out for sites that are located within very high fire hazard severity zones, you know, the law as written, does state that
211405:14:57.690 --> 05:15:01.020Pam Lee, Item #3: A site that does
2115
05:15:01.310 --> 05:15:13.350
Pam Lee, Item #3: have fire hazard mitigation measures in its proposed development, and then it lists out the three types of applicable,
2116
05:15:14.070 --> 05:15:19.909
Pam Lee, Item #3: state mitigation measures that can be followed. I would like to clarify that
211705:15:20.130 --> 05:15:24.850Pam Lee, Item #3: First of all, there had been questions with respect to
2118
05:15:25.200 --> 05:15:34.809Pam Lee, Item #3: the applicability of 4291, under the Public Resources Code, and that specifically speaks to.
211905:15:34.990 --> 05:15:48.210Pam Lee, Item #3: areas that are within the state responsibility area, that does not apply to cities which are
under the jurisdiction of the local responsibility area, either the city or the county.
212005:15:48.550 --> 05:15:58.310Pam Lee, Item #3: Section 4291, and I think the fire chief had alluded to it, does specifically apply to those rural areas that are under the control of CAL FIRE,
212105:15:58.430 --> 05:16:12.620
Pam Lee, Item #3: Financially and, with the objective standards of taking care of those areas that are
unincorporated and within, state lands. And so it's not determined to be directly applicable in this case.
212205:16:12.790 --> 05:16:28.770Pam Lee, Item #3: For those, under Public Resources Code Section 4290, that is applicable, for local responsibility areas, and so that does apply, and I believe that there are certain aspects under the fire,
2123
05:16:29.190 --> 05:16:43.079
Pam Lee, Item #3: safe regulations that make it applicable, as, again, the Fire Chief and the Assistant Fire
Chief had spoken to, in detail earlier this evening. And lastly, with respect to Chapter 7A of the California
Building Code.
212405:16:43.170 --> 05:16:59.160Pam Lee, Item #3: That has been adopted, in essence, by the city back in November, and with respect to those requirements of the building code, the applicant has met them, or will be required to meet them.
2125
05:16:59.210 --> 05:17:06.639
Pam Lee, Item #3: And this leads to the next part. When the, HCD letter says that it assumes
212605:17:07.170 --> 05:17:09.309Pam Lee, Item #3: Or the city should assume that
2127
05:17:09.820 --> 05:17:13.070
Pam Lee, Item #3: it meets the requirements under AB130,
212805:17:13.270 --> 05:17:23.510
Pam Lee, Item #3: They're partially correct in the sense that, yes, they do meet it under these standards,
but as part of the fire-safe regulations and as part of the fire code.
212905:17:23.790 --> 05:17:31.440Pam Lee, Item #3: there are post-entitlement requirements that the applicant would need to meet. Those
are not necessarily
213005:17:32.180 --> 05:17:37.899Pam Lee, Item #3: The review level of the pre-entitlement process, which is what we're discussing tonight.
213105:17:37.910 --> 05:17:57.579Pam Lee, Item #3: And, I'm going to turn your, attention to the fire prevention plan review comments, that
were submitted, by the fire, department, I believe in January of 2026. The review comments, you know, this
was the plan status
213205:17:57.680 --> 05:18:06.900Pam Lee, Item #3: The fire department did approve it with conditions. Condition number two was to provide a final fire protection plan at the time the building permit
2133
05:18:07.470 --> 05:18:23.309
Pam Lee, Item #3: submittal occurs, and so that's what we're referring to with respect to post-itlement
requirements to meet the fire code. They're not ready because the plans are not at the detailed level that
are required at this time, but they will be required in the future
213405:18:23.410 --> 05:18:30.319Pam Lee, Item #3: Post-entitlement, pre-permit issuance, and that's when the completion of meeting the fire code should occur.
2135
05:18:30.910 --> 05:18:33.520
Pam Lee, Item #3: And that would entail,
213605:18:33.970 --> 05:18:51.160Pam Lee, Item #3: full review of all the fire code requirements, building code requirements, as it pertains to, fire prevention and fire suppression, and evacuations. And at that time, it will be determined whether or not
to meet the requirements under AB130.
2137
05:18:53.450 --> 05:19:01.509Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Mayor, just want to respond. So, what… I'm sharing the screen again because, Penn is talking about
213805:19:01.580 --> 05:19:20.040
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): this particular section. Section 4291 does apply to SRA only. However, for local
LRA, Section 51182 still applies. So, but that is not mentioned. I think that's what the
213905:19:20.430 --> 05:19:35.139Speaker 4 (Community Hall): a lot of the members of the public is wondering how come this is not
specifically mentioned. I understand that eventually they will comply with this section. And, so Section 149
2140
05:19:35.170 --> 05:19:50.290
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): 4290 is the certif… contains the certified setback requirement. And Chapter 7A, thank you for clarifying that November 4th adoption is mainly for Chapter 7A, which means we really don't have
214105:19:50.370 --> 05:19:55.880
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The applicant has proposed mitigation majors. Proposed.
2142
05:19:56.000 --> 05:19:57.720Speaker 4 (Community Hall): not adopted.
214305:19:58.360 --> 05:20:02.330Speaker 4 (Community Hall): proposed, if the legislator meant
2144
05:20:02.380 --> 05:20:21.170
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): this project to get AB130 exception, as long as someone proposed a list, they would have said so. But they said, does not apply to sites that have adopted fire mitigation measures. And that fire mitigation major
214505:20:21.730 --> 05:20:33.659
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): should include the following three, but not limited to, which means it's the
responsibility of the local lead agency, which is the city, to
214605:20:33.910 --> 05:20:45.850Speaker 4 (Community Hall): to adopt mitigation measures to ensure we address the impact in very high fire stability zone. I don't think we have met that standard.
2147
05:20:47.230 --> 05:20:49.119
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Ms. Lee, is that your read of the law?
214805:20:51.180 --> 05:20:56.479Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I'm reading the law. I understand that I'm interested in her opinion, she's an attorney.
2149
05:20:57.000 --> 05:20:58.860
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Just for the chair?
215005:20:59.050 --> 05:21:10.560Pam Lee, Item #3: with my understanding of the way the law was written under AB 130, I already explained what I believe the law to be as it was adopted by the state legislature.
2151
05:21:10.560 --> 05:21:27.879
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay, I appreciate that. I'll turn to a few other questions and clarification that I
had for you, so I'll start with you before going to staff on others. There is one point that has me somewhat
confused, and I think that some of the comments from the public are directed toward it.
215205:21:27.910 --> 05:21:36.799Speaker 8 (Community Hall): You know, we're right now technically at a discretionary hearing. Granted, that
discretion is severely hemmed in by the HAA and other law.
215305:21:37.290 --> 05:21:49.500Speaker 8 (Community Hall): But there were a number of claims that somehow AB130 is only applicable to ministerial processes. That doesn't make any sense to me. It's an exemption to CEQA, and…
215405:21:49.760 --> 05:21:55.989
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): by its own terms, CEQA would not apply to a ministerial project to begin with.
Is that accurate?
215505:21:56.320 --> 05:22:09.320Pam Lee, Item #3: Yes, that is. Okay. Public Resources Code Section 21080.66, refers to projects that are statutorily exempt, and
2156
05:22:09.440 --> 05:22:22.150
Pam Lee, Item #3: this qualifies based on the checklist listed out under that section of the Public Resources
Code. There was an earlier reference to potential cumulative effects.
215705:22:22.150 --> 05:22:26.940Pam Lee, Item #3: That would draw it out under CEQA and require a full environmental review.
2158
05:22:26.940 --> 05:22:43.959
Pam Lee, Item #3: I will restate that that is only applicable for categorical exemptions from Class 1 to Class
32, under SQL guidelines, but this is a statutory exemption that the legislature has specifically carved out for
housing development projects.
215905:22:44.480 --> 05:22:48.919Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Thank you, that's… that's also very important context. You actually got to my next question ahead of me.
2160
05:22:50.270 --> 05:23:09.690
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Turning back to the Housing Accountability Act and the various penalties that the city would be on the hook for, we did hear from Applicants Council, would you broadly concur with the nature and scope of the penalties that could be imposed on the city if it wrongfully denies the project?
216105:23:10.990 --> 05:23:19.599
Pam Lee, Item #3: Yes, I believe with the recent enactment of, I believe it's AB712, it provides clearer
2162
05:23:20.930 --> 05:23:24.270Pam Lee, Item #3: A clear roadmap for how penalties
2163
05:23:24.280 --> 05:23:36.579Pam Lee, Item #3: And enforcement actions would occur for jurisdictions that violate, housing reform laws and housing element laws, under 66589.5.
2164
05:23:36.580 --> 05:23:47.420
Pam Lee, Item #3: And under housing law in general, which would include the Housing Accountability Act
and the Housing Crisis Act under SB330. It does state that to the extent,
216505:23:48.580 --> 05:24:06.140Pam Lee, Item #3: a matter is litigated for alleged violations. If the prevailing party is the applicant, immediately when that occurs, the city would be on the hook for not only its own attorney's fees and costs, but the applicant's,
2166
05:24:06.140 --> 05:24:12.640Pam Lee, Item #3: Attorney's fees and costs, as well as the requirement to pay for,
216705:24:12.980 --> 05:24:24.019Pam Lee, Item #3: a penalty, in essence, at the rate of $10,000 per unit. And so, whether or not this is an additional
2168
05:24:24.230 --> 05:24:38.729Pam Lee, Item #3: violation of the same law, where the five times factor would be involved, that remains to be seen. But assuming that that's not the case and this is the initial violation, that would be the amount we could be
216905:24:39.240 --> 05:24:43.040
Pam Lee, Item #3: if… there is… litigation.
217005:24:43.230 --> 05:24:48.430Pam Lee, Item #3: And assuming the applicant prevails in a matter, for this.
217105:24:48.730 --> 05:24:53.839Pam Lee, Item #3: There could be an upward of a million dollars or more in Fees and penalties.
2172
05:24:53.880 --> 05:25:11.959Pam Lee, Item #3: I will add also that HCD could look into decertifying the city's housing element, which would then open the door for builder remedy projects, not just here, but anywhere within the city. And that is a more serious,
217305:25:11.980 --> 05:25:16.530
Pam Lee, Item #3: violation and more serious concern, that I think the city would be facing.
217405:25:17.360 --> 05:25:20.450Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay. So, just to build on that a little bit.
2175
05:25:20.560 --> 05:25:27.510Speaker 8 (Community Hall): You mentioned Government Code Section 65589.5, that's the Housing Accountability Act.
2176
05:25:27.860 --> 05:25:35.210
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Under the Act, it specifically reincorporates the violation of a whole bunch of
other laws as de jure.
217705:25:35.340 --> 05:25:42.649Speaker 8 (Community Hall): violations of the Housing Accountability Act themselves, and most of that is codified at Subdivision H.
2178
05:25:42.980 --> 05:25:46.469
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): It includes things like the Permit Streamlining Act.
217905:25:46.630 --> 05:25:54.220Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And the wrongful denial of a CEQA exemption, like AB130. Is that your read?
2180
05:25:55.400 --> 05:25:58.390
Pam Lee, Item #3: Yes, that is my,
218105:25:58.840 --> 05:26:02.480Pam Lee, Item #3: interpretation of what the law stays under 6558.
2182
05:26:02.480 --> 05:26:08.600
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay. And I would, I would just note, and, and, you know, if you would like to
apply, and you are welcome to.
218305:26:08.760 --> 05:26:20.900Speaker 8 (Community Hall): The city is currently involved in two matters of litigation involving two Builder's remedy projects. Both of those are brought under the HAA, and both of them impact the Permit Streamlining Act.
2184
05:26:21.090 --> 05:26:31.040
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): We have notices of violation from HCD on those topics, and both of those cases are nearing a point where we would have
218505:26:31.150 --> 05:26:33.730Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Orders resolving the matter.
2186
05:26:33.880 --> 05:26:37.739
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): So, wouldn't those just count as strikes?
218705:26:38.900 --> 05:26:50.240
Pam Lee, Item #3: Under AB712, it specifically states, same violation for, a specific law. Whether or not it
2188
05:26:50.490 --> 05:27:02.850
Pam Lee, Item #3: could be couched under 65589.5 or some other law. I think that is certainly subject to interpretation, but I think the position that HCD would take would be, yes, that this is a violation under the Housing Accountability Act.
218905:27:03.040 --> 05:27:06.050
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay. Well, I mean, just by itself.
2190
05:27:06.830 --> 05:27:13.739Speaker 8 (Community Hall): If they… all three of them are violations of the HAA by themselves, then wouldn't that be a normal consequence?
219105:27:15.240 --> 05:27:17.239
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): It feels like it logically flows.
2192
05:27:17.520 --> 05:27:23.230Pam Lee, Item #3: It depends on how it's interpreted, but I certainly think, with the way HCD has been
219305:27:23.500 --> 05:27:32.120Pam Lee, Item #3: opining and providing its take on what the law is under, the government code. That
would be their position.
2194
05:27:32.620 --> 05:27:33.330Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Okay.
219505:27:33.670 --> 05:27:37.090Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Thank you. I will turn for the moment back to staff.
2196
05:27:42.620 --> 05:27:48.269
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): At the prior density of this site, before the enactment of the housing element.
219705:27:49.420 --> 05:27:56.010Speaker 8 (Community Hall): The permissible density was something on the order of about 14 units on this.
2198
05:27:57.020 --> 05:27:59.060
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Complex of parcels, correct?
219905:27:59.600 --> 05:28:01.390Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Something like that, yeah.
2200
05:28:01.390 --> 05:28:08.130
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): like 700 and… I'm sorry, 7,500 square feet, at R1.
220105:28:08.340 --> 05:28:09.320Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And it's…
2202
05:28:09.730 --> 05:28:17.339
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): 2.5 acres. Two and a half acres. Yeah. So that's… that's about… that's actually
over 14 units. Yeah. Okay.
220305:28:18.410 --> 05:28:24.870Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Under the rest of our zoning code, and frankly, under state law, you could permissibly also build
2204
05:28:25.020 --> 05:28:28.530
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): up to 3 ADUs on each one of those sites, yes?
220505:28:28.980 --> 05:28:30.940Speaker 9 (Community Hall): That is correct, yes. Okay.
2206
05:28:30.945 --> 05:28:34.885
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Just for the record, 14 by 4 is 56.
220705:28:35.595 --> 05:28:48.685Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Which is more than this project. So, I'm just curious to hear, maybe from FHIRE, how we would treat those ADUs under an alternative scenario, because it seems like even if you reverted this back to
2208
05:28:48.895 --> 05:28:52.085
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): The original zoning, it doesn't really change the equation.
220905:28:56.325 --> 05:28:58.044Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I don't know if the Chief's available.
2210
05:29:02.870 --> 05:29:03.670
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): On his way.
221105:29:17.670 --> 05:29:20.199Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Sorry to spring a hypothetical on you at the last minute.
2212
05:29:20.205 --> 05:29:22.465
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): No, no problem, I'm gonna ask you to repeat it, please.
221305:29:23.430 --> 05:29:27.499Speaker 8 (Community Hall): So, under the prior zoning, you could have had
2214
05:29:28.190 --> 05:29:31.259Speaker 8 (Community Hall): 14 and a half, that might round up to 15 units on…
2215
05:29:31.590 --> 05:29:47.999
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): this collection of parcels, the same site that we're talking about today. And
under state law and under our local code, you could have up to 3 ADUs on all those sites as well. That's 56
units at a minimum, if you calculate it from 14 units. So, how would FIRE treat that situation
221605:29:48.020 --> 05:29:58.119Speaker 8 (Community Hall): compared to the one that we're facing here, especially given that ADUs can ordinarily be built as close as 4 feet to an adjacent property.
2217
05:29:58.510 --> 05:30:08.569
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Yeah, that's a great question. The thing is, is that the density on a regular parcel could actually be 3. You can have the house, and then the ADU, the ADU. So, that does create
221805:30:08.570 --> 05:30:20.139Speaker 10 (Community Hall): essentially that same type of density. It is one of those things where it's very dependent on who's building and what they decide to build. The setbacks are super important. The distance
in between two.
221905:30:20.265 --> 05:30:26.525Speaker 34 (Community Hall): buildings are very, important, so there's a separation component. The numbers are.
222005:30:26.525 --> 05:30:29.055
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): fairly similar. So.
222105:30:29.630 --> 05:30:39.120Speaker 34 (Community Hall): You would have a scenario that is extremely hard to predict what it is, but, the… the setbacks on the lot lines
222205:30:39.620 --> 05:30:49.469
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): And how they relate to each other would also provide a component. So as
long as you had, say, for an ADU, the 4-foot minimum setback, that would allow a firefighter to get all the
way around.
222305:30:49.610 --> 05:30:57.589Speaker 34 (Community Hall): From a component of the, the, ability to encircle the entire building.
2224
05:30:57.940 --> 05:31:05.540
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): For any sort of operations or rescue, then you would also take into
consideration the distance from hydrants. So you'd probably run out of.
222505:31:05.540 --> 05:31:06.189
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): an opportunity.
2226
05:31:06.190 --> 05:31:25.799
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): to spread this out because of infrastructure, because at that point, you wouldn't have a complex putting in infrastructure like hydrants and things like that. You wouldn't be able to comply with the 150-foot standard. So, that would probably be a limiting factor here as well. And when you have those.
2227
05:31:25.805 --> 05:31:28.714
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Those projects and individual home.
222805:31:28.720 --> 05:31:29.750Speaker 34 (Community Hall): owners.
222905:31:29.860 --> 05:31:35.280
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): faced with having to add a fire hydrant, at that point, the project becomes
infeasible. Got it.
223005:31:35.400 --> 05:31:44.300Speaker 34 (Community Hall): if there's… if I missed it in any way, the thing is, it's an incredibly dynamic scenario. We did see some of this, Brad and I are actually both
2231
05:31:44.330 --> 05:31:57.499
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): We both were in San Jose. I was the fire marshal. He was working for me in
pretty much the same capacity. So we saw a lot of this in downtown San Jose, where the density just kind of
blew up. So, setbacks?
223205:31:57.800 --> 05:31:59.840Speaker 34 (Community Hall): distance. We're on the parcel.
2233
05:31:59.840 --> 05:32:02.850
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The property exists, and where each structure will be.
223405:32:02.855 --> 05:32:04.725Speaker 34 (Community Hall): And where on the street in relation to serve.
2235
05:32:04.730 --> 05:32:05.270
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): versus.
223605:32:05.275 --> 05:32:14.644Speaker 34 (Community Hall): specifically water, were the biggest components and challenges. So, you would run into a dead end with the amount that it could be built out at some point.
2237
05:32:15.310 --> 05:32:17.880
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Got it. Okay.
223805:32:20.050 --> 05:32:27.229Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I don't have anything else immediate other than that it… I thought that the applicant had something that he wanted to say, and if there is…
2239
05:32:27.360 --> 05:32:31.229
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): some other answer that he wanted to provide, I'd like to be able to afford that opportunity.
224005:32:33.050 --> 05:32:36.880Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Did you have a topic that you were interested in hearing about?
2241
05:32:36.885 --> 05:32:40.424
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): It sounded like there was a question that he wanted to respond to.
224205:32:41.280 --> 05:32:48.380Speaker 16 (Community Hall): I wanted to respond as a rebuttal to the comments. Is that okay to do that now? I believe we had 2 minutes to respond. What's the topic?
2243
05:32:48.380 --> 05:32:49.360
Speaker 35 (Community Hall): responding to.
224405:32:49.840 --> 05:32:51.959Speaker 16 (Community Hall): the public comments?
2245
05:32:51.960 --> 05:32:53.340
Speaker 35 (Community Hall): No.
224605:32:53.340 --> 05:33:00.420Speaker 1 (Community Hall): No. So we're… the public hearing is closed. I see no further hands raised, and I'm sorry.
2247
05:33:01.165 --> 05:33:05.495
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I do have one additional question, actually, for the… For Ms. Lee.
224805:33:06.210 --> 05:33:10.119Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so we're reopening the public hearing, and please ask away.
2249
05:33:14.370 --> 05:33:30.120
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): If you could illuminate for us, you know, I used to practice workers'
compensation, the general standard there for almost everything was substantial evidence. It has a particular
meaning there, and I would be curious to hear from you as to what would constitute
225005:33:30.380 --> 05:33:33.429
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Substantial evidence in this case.
2251
05:33:33.830 --> 05:33:38.229
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): With regard to the HEA standard and the, the density bonus law standard.
225205:33:40.110 --> 05:33:42.619Pam Lee, Item #3: The substantial evidence,
2253
05:33:42.970 --> 05:34:01.699
Pam Lee, Item #3: Standard with respect to approval or disapproval of a project means, that a reasonable
person would find, based on the preponderance of evidence, more likely than not, that a project would comply or would not comply, with the applicable standards that are,
225405:34:01.750 --> 05:34:10.610Pam Lee, Item #3: required under the law. In a case like this, a disapproval would be, permissible.
2255
05:34:10.830 --> 05:34:19.449
Pam Lee, Item #3: Under… the HAA 65589.5,
225605:34:19.580 --> 05:34:27.150Pam Lee, Item #3: Where it would have a specific adverse impact on public health or safety, and there's no feasible method to
2257
05:34:27.340 --> 05:34:34.389
Pam Lee, Item #3: Mitigate, or to avoid that specific adverse impact on public health and safety.
225805:34:34.540 --> 05:34:37.960Pam Lee, Item #3: I'm… And…
2259
05:34:38.240 --> 05:34:54.119
Pam Lee, Item #3: To quantify that, the state law basically says a specific adverse impact means a
significant, quantifiable, direct, and unavoidable impact based on objective, identified written public health or safety standards.
226005:34:54.170 --> 05:34:59.919Pam Lee, Item #3: Policies or conditions as they existed on the date the application was deemed complete.
2261
05:35:00.470 --> 05:35:06.010
Pam Lee, Item #3: And that's under, I believe, 65589.5D2.
226205:35:06.280 --> 05:35:09.720Pam Lee, Item #3: And so that's the standard.
2263
05:35:09.830 --> 05:35:14.229
Pam Lee, Item #3: with which we're dealing. Hopefully that answers your question.
226405:35:14.620 --> 05:35:26.750Speaker 8 (Community Hall): For the most part. Turning back to staff for a moment, I know I've asked this question, and you've answered it in the desk item, but is there such substantial evidence here?
2265
05:35:30.410 --> 05:35:35.909Speaker 9 (Community Hall): believe I was paying attention enough before that, but yes, staff does believe there is.
226605:35:35.915 --> 05:35:39.145Speaker 8 (Community Hall): No, substantial evidence to deny a… No, to deny, no.
2267
05:35:39.145 --> 05:35:41.644Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Okay. By the other way, yes. Okay.
226805:35:50.210 --> 05:36:00.369Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I gather you've finished your questions? Okay, I do have one, question for, Attorney Lee, also.
2269
05:36:01.150 --> 05:36:13.809Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So the issue with, the objective standards with regards to the evacuation study, could you explain, what we have for a hurdle on that item?
227005:36:14.600 --> 05:36:24.070Pam Lee, Item #3: The problem with… and I understand the concern, I will say with this caveat that I
represent several cities that are, in…
227105:36:24.680 --> 05:36:27.930Pam Lee, Item #3: fully encompassed within high fires,
227205:36:28.230 --> 05:36:44.099Pam Lee, Item #3: hazard severity zones, so I understand the concern with evacuations and with, fire
threats, along hillsides and other areas where there is natural brush and, a lot of mount,
227305:36:44.200 --> 05:36:46.539Pam Lee, Item #3: Fuel for wildfires.
227405:36:47.080 --> 05:36:54.789Pam Lee, Item #3: I… the problem is that under state law, The issue is that
2275
05:36:55.450 --> 05:37:04.380Pam Lee, Item #3: We, as jurisdictions and lead agencies, have to apply the objective, quantifiable, significant.
2276
05:37:04.530 --> 05:37:13.829Pam Lee, Item #3: standards that exist at the time the application was deemed complete. With respect to evacuations, there's no specific
2277
05:37:14.020 --> 05:37:17.820
Pam Lee, Item #3: requirement for,
227805:37:18.000 --> 05:37:34.060Pam Lee, Item #3: a type of evacuation plan, and I understand that to a certain extent, fire codes require, emergency access, also, evacuations for, human, life and other life.
2279
05:37:34.130 --> 05:37:42.429
Pam Lee, Item #3: From a site, out and onwards, with respect to specific traffic issues and,
228005:37:43.930 --> 05:37:48.890Pam Lee, Item #3: Congestion, that may be located on streets in the surrounding area.
2281
05:37:49.000 --> 05:37:53.090
Pam Lee, Item #3: I don't believe that the city has adopted a specific,
228205:37:53.220 --> 05:38:02.289Pam Lee, Item #3: objective measure for an evacuation plan that deals with that specifically. And so, as a result of that, I…
2283
05:38:02.620 --> 05:38:03.560
Pam Lee, Item #3: don't.
228405:38:04.310 --> 05:38:16.400Pam Lee, Item #3: think that, holding them to a specific standard that isn't quantifiable yet, or that doesn't exist as an objective standard yet within the city, would
2285
05:38:16.710 --> 05:38:18.540
Pam Lee, Item #3: Allow the city to…
228605:38:18.870 --> 05:38:31.780Pam Lee, Item #3: basically deny it just on that sole purpose. There may be additional information or facts that we can look to, but with respect to this, it is a significant hurdle that the city would have to overcome.
2287
05:38:33.660 --> 05:38:40.820
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you. And that, I gather that's also the same with regards to the
hazardous waste on the site?
228805:38:42.340 --> 05:38:46.290Pam Lee, Item #3: With respect to the hazardous waste, there are environmental,
228905:38:46.670 --> 05:38:58.730Pam Lee, Item #3: regulations that would be able to deal with this. You know, a Phase 1 and a Phase 2 can only go so far, if there hasn't been
2290
05:38:59.150 --> 05:39:06.469
Pam Lee, Item #3: sufficient either soil samples or, even with the soil samples that are there, if they're not
229105:39:06.470 --> 05:39:22.549Pam Lee, Item #3: board within a certain area, or within a certain depth. Obviously, there may be no way to actually determine what contaminants are there, or what constituents that exceed standard levels are present until you actually start digging.
2292
05:39:22.550 --> 05:39:28.069Pam Lee, Item #3: And that's why, even with a Phase 1 and a Phase 2, that say, that there isn't any
229305:39:29.000 --> 05:39:42.420Pam Lee, Item #3: contaminant or exceedant levels, that exist on the property. The minute you start digging and you find something, there are regulations that would require the developer to
2294
05:39:42.420 --> 05:39:49.990Pam Lee, Item #3: Alt construction activities, and mitigate for those contamination issues, or remediate the property.
229505:39:50.130 --> 05:39:54.800Pam Lee, Item #3: If and when those constituents or those contaminants are found within the soil.
2296
05:39:55.660 --> 05:39:59.170Pam Lee, Item #3: So, in that sense, laws do exist to account for that.
229705:40:00.240 --> 05:40:06.140Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, and we can further condition, the resolution
2298
05:40:06.550 --> 05:40:13.610
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): with regards to, going to Santa Clara County DEH, if, if needed.
229905:40:13.980 --> 05:40:30.450Pam Lee, Item #3: If needed, correct. And I do believe that when a grading permit is issued, and when the building permit is issued for construction activity and vertical construction, that would be an automatic requirement, to the extent that any contaminants or constituents that exceed standard levels are found.
2300
05:40:32.010 --> 05:40:39.980Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, and so now my, my board's all lit up here. I still see Councilmember Fruen,
2301
05:40:39.980 --> 05:40:52.159Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so I've got, Vice Mayor, Councilmember Wong, and Councilmember Mohan, and we're still doing clarifying questions, so please try to wrap up so we can,
2302
05:40:52.390 --> 05:40:54.790
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): move on to deliberations. Thank you.
230305:40:57.780 --> 05:41:01.459Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Yes, Vice Mayor, then Councilmember Wong, Councilmember Mohan.
2304
05:41:03.200 --> 05:41:05.309
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, this is a question about…
230505:41:05.310 --> 05:41:08.239Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The chimney… Microphone.
230605:41:08.840 --> 05:41:12.830
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): About the chimney effect that was brought up by the public?
2307
05:41:13.070 --> 05:41:28.940Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So before, if we have 30-foot setback, it's dissipated fire provides space for the fire crew to… to work on both buildings, and now it's only 10 set foot setback.
230805:41:29.220 --> 05:41:32.510
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And, with the fire rate to the wall.
2309
05:41:32.730 --> 05:41:44.900Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Actually reflect fire, reflect heat so that it actually creates higher heat that, make it more dangerous for
231005:41:45.020 --> 05:41:50.779
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The wooden fence and the wooden house, in the adjoining property.
2311
05:41:52.560 --> 05:41:58.329Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Could we get some, answer from the fire department?
231205:42:14.880 --> 05:42:18.279Speaker 34 (Community Hall): Thank you for the question, I can honestly say I've never seen that one
before.
2313
05:42:18.560 --> 05:42:19.000Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So…
2314
05:42:19.005 --> 05:42:19.745
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): I'm gonna.
231505:42:19.750 --> 05:42:24.240Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I'll give you an example from my experience. I've been a firefighter for 28
years. I've been, like I said.
231605:42:24.245 --> 05:42:28.805Speaker 34 (Community Hall): this high, and they were 20 to 22 feet apart. They burned, they did.
231705:42:28.810 --> 05:42:36.809Speaker 10 (Community Hall): push radiant heat from one to the other. It affected windows only. It never
was enough to actually ignite the other side.
231805:42:37.005 --> 05:42:40.004Speaker 34 (Community Hall): It would be very unlikely, based on my experience.
231905:42:40.515 --> 05:42:45.325Speaker 10 (Community Hall): from an operational standpoint than anything I've ever seen for this type of
ignition.
232005:42:45.325 --> 05:42:46.035Speaker 34 (Community Hall): to occur.
232105:42:46.300 --> 05:42:49.829Speaker 10 (Community Hall): However, I will say that, depending on how.
2322
05:42:49.835 --> 05:42:53.105Speaker 34 (Community Hall): much fire, and what you're dealing with. Nothing is,
232305:42:53.855 --> 05:42:59.815Speaker 34 (Community Hall): able to withstand combustion at some point if there's enough influence. So I would hope that that would answer that question.
2324
05:42:59.820 --> 05:43:02.730Speaker 10 (Community Hall): That reflective radiant heat chimney effect.
232505:43:03.675 --> 05:43:04.885Speaker 34 (Community Hall): endangering the…
2326
05:43:04.885 --> 05:43:07.835
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): neighboring structure, is…
232705:43:08.675 --> 05:43:19.744
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): quite honestly, not something that I have ever seen happen from an
operational standpoint. Once again, one of the very first things that you do is you protect exposure buildings. An exposure building is the adjacent.
2328
05:43:19.750 --> 05:43:20.480
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): infrastructure.
232905:43:20.920 --> 05:43:26.050Speaker 10 (Community Hall): 10 to 15 feet away, think about your normal residential structure, they have about 10 feet separation.
2330
05:43:26.050 --> 05:43:27.600
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): That's an important number.
233105:43:27.600 --> 05:43:35.230Speaker 10 (Community Hall): So, I guess the question… The thing that gets under the eaves, and it actually has an opportunity to get into the attic, is when you see that kind of extension from structure to structure.
2332
05:43:35.810 --> 05:43:49.799
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And I guess the question is, for the fire-rated wall or construction, they resist
fire. Do they absorb heat, or do they reflect feet, actually make it more dangerous?
233305:43:50.390 --> 05:43:51.270Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I'm attempting.
2334
05:43:51.275 --> 05:43:52.645
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Do you… you don't know.
233505:43:52.965 --> 05:43:54.515Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I wouldn't answer that question.
233605:43:54.520 --> 05:43:56.560
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): know anybody that could in the room. Okay.
2337
05:43:57.155 --> 05:43:59.735Speaker 35 (Community Hall): I would also say that the…
233805:44:00.240 --> 05:44:02.820Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Action or the behavior that you're describing.
2339
05:44:02.825 --> 05:44:04.325
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): is unlike any one that I've ever.
234005:44:04.325 --> 05:44:08.315
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): seen a structure fire, and I've seen some big ones. So, when it comes down
to it.
234105:44:08.315 --> 05:44:09.845Speaker 34 (Community Hall): but I would not expect it to…
2342
05:44:10.190 --> 05:44:14.820Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Create enough radiant heat to have an effect on a neighboring structure that had the setback that.
234305:44:14.825 --> 05:44:16.404Speaker 34 (Community Hall): Was it 10 to 15 feet away?
2344
05:44:16.495 --> 05:44:22.355Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Also, firefighters would address that other building, and they would make sure that they're applying water and a cooling.
234505:44:22.360 --> 05:44:23.820Speaker 34 (Community Hall): operation.
2346
05:44:23.825 --> 05:44:24.584Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And they would assign.
234705:44:24.585 --> 05:44:35.355Speaker 34 (Community Hall): fire crews in order to basically check to make sure that that structure is also without any incident of, fire spread. But it would be mainly the eaves, the vents, and some of the other
components.
234805:44:35.360 --> 05:44:36.970Speaker 10 (Community Hall): That you would care about.
234905:44:37.355 --> 05:44:44.095Speaker 34 (Community Hall): It wouldn't be the, the actual, the, rated wall.
2350
05:44:44.705 --> 05:44:46.335Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And I would… I would not…
235105:44:46.385 --> 05:44:48.585Speaker 34 (Community Hall): I would just see that it would resist.
2352
05:44:48.835 --> 05:44:51.594
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): How much it absorbs, I do not know. How much it.
235305:44:51.595 --> 05:44:53.834
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): reflects, I do not know, but this is a good.
2354
05:44:53.835 --> 05:44:56.205
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): For instance, to be, so.
235505:44:56.205 --> 05:44:56.875Speaker 35 (Community Hall): Wix.
2356
05:44:57.280 --> 05:45:04.019
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Follow up for an earlier question. For the exception request for 30-foot
setback.
235705:45:04.680 --> 05:45:09.590Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Have you received other such requests before?
2358
05:45:10.460 --> 05:45:13.880
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): This is the first one you'll have received.
235905:45:14.260 --> 05:45:14.750Speaker 35 (Community Hall): This is the.
2360
05:45:14.750 --> 05:45:16.280
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): First one, like this that I.
236105:45:16.285 --> 05:45:19.325Speaker 34 (Community Hall): I believe I… I can recall. Do you have another?
236205:45:21.030 --> 05:45:22.910
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Yeah, I think this is the first one that we've seen.
236305:45:22.915 --> 05:45:29.095Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The first one. And, you are facing experience.
236405:45:29.365 --> 05:45:37.664Speaker 4 (Community Hall): to decide the same practical effect, but this is your first one. You have no
experience, actually.
236505:45:37.895 --> 05:45:41.354Speaker 4 (Community Hall): to reduce setbacks.
236605:45:41.355 --> 05:45:57.114Speaker 10 (Community Hall): What I'm saying is, everything that we put in our report that we, or that our
document that we provided was actually what we used to evaluate. We were using an addition experience.
The reason that we haven't done it here, is because LRA just became, enforceable.
236705:45:57.115 --> 05:46:02.384Speaker 34 (Community Hall): 4290 when you adopted it last year. We have been doing it in the SRA.
2368
05:46:02.385 --> 05:46:03.515
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And…
236905:46:03.520 --> 05:46:03.869Speaker 34 (Community Hall): And it comes.
2370
05:46:03.875 --> 05:46:11.375
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): to the same practical effect. We have more experience with that as a process,
and this is not a.
237105:46:11.375 --> 05:46:12.455Speaker 34 (Community Hall): Maybe, is it…
2372
05:46:12.455 --> 05:46:12.875
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): It is.
237305:46:12.875 --> 05:46:14.745Speaker 34 (Community Hall): Very similar to a normal AM.
237405:46:14.750 --> 05:46:15.380
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): MR processes.
2375
05:46:17.375 --> 05:46:19.614Speaker 34 (Community Hall): Setback or something else is handled.
237605:46:19.615 --> 05:46:23.014Speaker 10 (Community Hall): The setbacks for residential structures is something that we've dealt with.
2377
05:46:23.745 --> 05:46:27.334
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And Brett and I actually have worked on zero lot line, construction.
237805:46:27.335 --> 05:46:30.855Speaker 34 (Community Hall): in San Jose, those were also things that we worked on.
2379
05:46:30.855 --> 05:46:31.615
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): in the, in the.
238005:46:31.615 --> 05:46:35.355Speaker 34 (Community Hall): highly dense, downtown areas. So, we have seen…
238105:46:35.355 --> 05:46:36.115Speaker 10 (Community Hall): No, fuck.
2382
05:46:36.115 --> 05:46:42.825
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Highly dense downtown areas are not high fire severity zone, and you have
not,
238305:46:43.465 --> 05:46:48.854Speaker 4 (Community Hall): handled any project that has reduced from 30 footstep back to 10.
2384
05:46:48.855 --> 05:46:49.615
Speaker 35 (Community Hall): That's why we evaluate.
238505:46:49.615 --> 05:46:53.355Speaker 10 (Community Hall): this one based on the criteria that they provided. Using this.
2386
05:46:53.355 --> 05:46:54.115
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): standards that they.
238705:46:54.115 --> 05:46:54.854Speaker 10 (Community Hall): They gave us with.
238805:46:54.940 --> 05:46:59.389
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): 4290 to apply. So, I would say, no, I disagree with what you just said.
2389
05:46:59.960 --> 05:47:08.549Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I do think that we have the expertise on board at fire prevention. I do believe that I have a certain amount of experience that lends to that.
239005:47:08.555 --> 05:47:11.924
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): credibility, and I do believe that when we evaluated this.
2391
05:47:11.925 --> 05:47:16.205Speaker 10 (Community Hall): we did it correctly. So, we've actually already gone through everything.
239205:47:16.365 --> 05:47:19.055Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Multiple times, and I have not changed my position.
2393
05:47:19.055 --> 05:47:38.864
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I asked for documentation for the… to prove… provide evidence for same practical effect, but all I got was a two-page memo that basically repeats the same opinion that was in the AMR approval. There was… you have provided no evidence that proved
2394
05:47:38.865 --> 05:47:43.794Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Same practical effect for the mitigation measures that were proposed.
2395
05:47:43.795 --> 05:47:49.174
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I regret you feel that way. I've given you everything that could possibly be
provided for you.
239605:47:49.180 --> 05:47:51.360Speaker 4 (Community Hall): He didn't provide any evidence.
2397
05:47:52.340 --> 05:47:55.600
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Only two pages of premiums. Then I have provided.
239805:47:55.605 --> 05:48:11.314Speaker 10 (Community Hall): what we have been able to provide. We've given you the methodology for it. We have tried to explain this, and I think that if there is a deficit, or if there's some component of it that you haven't been able to
2399
05:48:12.795 --> 05:48:23.164
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): satisfy, then I would say that this is… this is how we worked within 4290. We
were provided the basis, the definition.
240005:48:24.120 --> 05:48:25.300Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And we…
2401
05:48:25.305 --> 05:48:29.785
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): the mitigations that were provided because of the setback.
240205:48:29.785 --> 05:48:31.285Speaker 10 (Community Hall): That's what we do.
2403
05:48:31.285 --> 05:48:34.615
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): For more information about the chimney effect.
240405:48:34.620 --> 05:48:43.360Speaker 1 (Community Hall): We are not, bringing in members of the public to continue speaking. We are asking clarifying questions. Thank you.
2405
05:48:43.770 --> 05:48:47.040
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): And then, I know that from an operational standpoint, the 20-foot was one.
240605:48:47.045 --> 05:48:49.304Speaker 34 (Community Hall): One of the things that you were asking, is there enough room to work?
2407
05:48:49.305 --> 05:48:50.805Speaker 10 (Community Hall): I would say, yes, there was, from an operator.
2408
05:48:50.805 --> 05:48:53.045
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): standpoint. The access for.
240905:48:53.050 --> 05:48:58.299Speaker 10 (Community Hall): ladders, throughout, we're going to be accessing them. I know that, those areas.
2410
05:48:58.305 --> 05:49:01.374
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): that we can. We, have…
241105:49:01.920 --> 05:49:03.770Speaker 10 (Community Hall): looked at all the buildings, we can actually.
241205:49:03.775 --> 05:49:06.855
Speaker 34 (Community Hall): Usually, it's any four corners that you want to meet.
2413
05:49:06.855 --> 05:49:09.024Speaker 10 (Community Hall): be able to access? That is the… we are.
241405:49:09.025 --> 05:49:15.765Speaker 34 (Community Hall): capable of doing that on all of these buildings. With the building heights, we
can get to the roofs with our normal complement of.
2415
05:49:15.765 --> 05:49:16.775Speaker 10 (Community Hall): ground ladders.
241605:49:16.780 --> 05:49:21.149Speaker 34 (Community Hall): And we also can get to the windows with a normal complement of ground
letters on a fire engine.
2417
05:49:23.710 --> 05:49:25.959Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. Next, we have Councilmember Buong.
241805:49:26.060 --> 05:49:26.640Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Yes.
2419
05:49:26.640 --> 05:49:39.429
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Some quick questions, this is just in general. What changed about the Linda Vista roads from 2024 to 2026, the vesting date versus now? We have new information, not new conditions. Anything changed there in the evacuation routes?
2420
05:49:40.690 --> 05:49:43.190Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Anybody know? On Public Works, or…
2421
05:49:43.630 --> 05:49:44.350
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Planning?
242205:49:45.940 --> 05:49:50.929Speaker 9 (Community Hall): You're asking about the evacuation routes in the vicinity in the two-year period? Yep.
2423
05:49:51.350 --> 05:49:57.470
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I'm not aware of anything. Not in Public Works, but I'm not aware of anything
that would have changed with the street network out there. Okay, and then.
242405:49:57.475 --> 05:50:06.065Speaker 5 (Community Hall): With evacuation routes, we might not have our own standards, but aren't there state-level standards somewhere that which would apply if our city doesn't have anything in place?
2425
05:50:07.535 --> 05:50:08.905
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I'm not aware of any.
242605:50:09.005 --> 05:50:17.985Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I believe there's some state evacuation routes that are out there, or state rules that apply. Does our city attorney, Pam, do you know anything about that?
2427
05:50:20.980 --> 05:50:22.060
Pam Lee, Item #3: Yes, I will…
242805:50:22.060 --> 05:50:22.560Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Sure.
2429
05:50:23.010 --> 05:50:42.060
Pam Lee, Item #3: Thank you. I would defer to the fire department, since they deal mostly with fire
mitigation and requirements. I would also defer to the traffic engineer to the extent that they are looking at
levels of service when the roads are impacted by emergency situations such as a wildfire.
243005:50:43.560 --> 05:50:47.420Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, is there anyone that can answer that? While I've got you here, I'm gonna ask you…
2431
05:50:47.520 --> 05:50:49.130
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Questions on 4291?
243205:50:49.270 --> 05:51:09.109
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Just to be clear. The way 4291 is, and we've been interpreting a lot because
nothing has really gone into the courts yet, but everyone's applying their professional opinion, but 4291 reads directly, lands in state responsibility areas, SRAs, and lands in very high fire hazard severity zones. And so that…
2433
05:51:09.300 --> 05:51:27.929
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): obligation is tied to land that is state responsibility or somewhere that's really
windy. And in 4291, if we look at this, our job in 4291 is to make sure that there's defensible space. So if we don't evaluate defensible space, I mean, how do we get away with not having to apply 4291? What is that exemption again?
243405:51:28.860 --> 05:51:35.740Pam Lee, Item #3: It will say later on in 1491 that to the extent that a property owner is not
2435
05:51:38.470 --> 05:51:44.950Pam Lee, Item #3: An owner, a leaseholder, Or…
243605:51:45.430 --> 05:51:49.480Pam Lee, Item #3: I'll just read it, it's easier if I read it.
2437
05:51:49.590 --> 05:51:50.310
Pam Lee, Item #3: Section B.
243805:51:50.310 --> 05:51:51.210Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Who owns, leases?
2439
05:51:51.210 --> 05:52:08.720
Pam Lee, Item #3: Yeah, a person is not required under this section to manage fuels on land if that person
doesn't have legal right to manage the fuels or alter property that is owned by another person. And so, within 100 feet, obviously, looking beyond the property line and looking beyond the building structure.
244005:52:08.720 --> 05:52:23.320Pam Lee, Item #3: line 100 feet out is clearly owned by other property owners than the applicant or developer. And so, to the extent that management of fuels within 100 feet from each side of any structure is
required, that wouldn't apply here.
244105:52:25.770 --> 05:52:28.830Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But do you still meet the defensible space exemption, then?
244205:52:29.110 --> 05:52:34.490Pam Lee, Item #3: The defensible space then falls back to what is defensible space within the property
owner's limits.
244305:52:34.490 --> 05:52:55.480Pam Lee, Item #3: And the setback of 30 feet would be part of that requirement for defensible space and fuel management. And again, if you go back into the fire codes, the layered nuances of that will eventually
lead you to fire code regulations 1270.07 and 1276.01, which allow
2444
05:52:55.920 --> 05:53:02.409
Pam Lee, Item #3: smaller, or… less of, less than 30 feet setbacks if
244505:53:02.570 --> 05:53:10.940Pam Lee, Item #3: The applicant or the developer, takes care to either do non-combustible walls, Art.
2446
05:53:11.450 --> 05:53:16.549
Pam Lee, Item #3: other… I think there's a list of 5 items which we went over in detail already.
244705:53:18.880 --> 05:53:21.380Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, I'm still confused, but I appreciate it. Thank you.
2448
05:53:23.410 --> 05:53:24.680
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Councilmember Mohan.
244905:53:26.450 --> 05:53:31.320Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Yeah, I had an question for the attorney as well, Ms. Lee.
245005:53:31.580 --> 05:53:38.139
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): You, you spoke, about, post-tight entitlement issues.
245105:53:38.270 --> 05:53:42.209Speaker 6 (Community Hall): What does that mean, in short, and…
245205:53:43.170 --> 05:53:51.990Speaker 6 (Community Hall): does it mean what I think it means, which is… which… which is that between
now and by the time the
245305:53:52.260 --> 05:53:55.919Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Applicant actually applies for the building permit.
245405:53:56.220 --> 05:54:00.109Speaker 6 (Community Hall): There will be other opportunities for us to review.
2455
05:54:00.260 --> 05:54:08.670Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Some of these issues, which obviously have not been answered to everyone's satisfaction today, specifically fire and, evacuation.
245605:54:09.190 --> 05:54:10.060Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Huh.
2457
05:54:10.150 --> 05:54:28.699
Pam Lee, Item #3: Yes, with respect to pre-entitlement and post-itlement, pre-entitlement means all the requirements and regulations that are applicable now up until the entitlement phase, which is what we're looking at tonight, and when the project can be what we call entitled or approved.
2458
05:54:29.080 --> 05:54:40.290
Pam Lee, Item #3: After the project is approved, there's additional steps that a developer needs to take to
make sure that their project is in full compliance with all applicable
245905:54:40.300 --> 05:54:52.130Pam Lee, Item #3: laws, including the fire code and the environmental regulations that exist. Those requirements are required to be complied with prior to the issuance of building permits.
2460
05:54:52.130 --> 05:55:07.300
Pam Lee, Item #3: and grading permits, and other permits. And that's what we call post-itlement, or post-approval requirements. There are additional requirements that the applicant would be required to meet with respect to FIR codes.
246105:55:07.300 --> 05:55:19.460Pam Lee, Item #3: And fire safe regulations. And that's why the county fire department basically said they
need to review and approve a final, fire
246205:55:20.100 --> 05:55:22.120Pam Lee, Item #3: Final fire protection plan.
246305:55:22.230 --> 05:55:26.959Pam Lee, Item #3: That would include all the details, that aren't already included.
2464
05:55:27.060 --> 05:55:43.139Pam Lee, Item #3: now at this stage, but would be included and required, prior to the issuance of any building permits. So there are more regulations that they are required to comply with, and that pertains to very specific project-level details
246505:55:43.220 --> 05:55:53.410
Pam Lee, Item #3: When they submit specific building plans, and other types of plans that are required for
building permit submittals.
246605:55:56.830 --> 05:56:10.170Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And in your experience, Have there been any instances where we've gone past the… planning permit,
2467
05:56:12.700 --> 05:56:15.079
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Not approved the final project.
246805:56:17.100 --> 05:56:24.260Pam Lee, Item #3: Yes, there are a lot of instances where an Apple Canner developer will submit their
building plans. They're deemed incomplete.
2469
05:56:24.310 --> 05:56:41.450
Pam Lee, Item #3: The plan corrections are sent back to the applicant, they make sure that the corrections are made, and then they resubmit. That process continues to occur until all the checklists and requirements are met, and that's when it can finally be approved for a building permit.
247005:56:43.930 --> 05:56:45.720
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you very much.
2471
05:56:47.460 --> 05:56:52.240Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. I think I'm gonna share screen here real quick.
247205:56:55.600 --> 05:56:58.650Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I'm hoping it'll be quick.
2473
05:57:04.510 --> 05:57:20.849
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so I… it's a question for the attorneys. So this was, like, a condition that I was, am considering, the environmental remediation and ongoing monitoring, so this isn't something that's in the resolution currently,
247405:57:21.080 --> 05:57:28.019
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And would this… is this, along the lines of something that would be
acceptable?
247505:57:28.250 --> 05:57:33.640Speaker 1 (Community Hall): It's basically asking that it goes to DEH, but really spelling it out very clearly.
247605:57:35.840 --> 05:57:43.640
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): It's from the, the later item that we have. It's from… directly from the Mary
Avenue, resolution.
247705:57:45.040 --> 05:57:49.230Pam Lee, Item #3: I think that that is a reasonable condition, and…
247805:57:50.140 --> 05:57:59.160
Pam Lee, Item #3: Based on what I've reviewed so far, of what you've shown on the screen, I believe that
to be a condition that complies with the law.
247905:58:00.920 --> 05:58:12.940Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, and then the next thing I'm curious about, with regards to the vesting tentative map, it doesn't show the interior property lines, and I don't know if that just…
2480
05:58:13.400 --> 05:58:16.280
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): If that rises to the,
248105:58:16.670 --> 05:58:40.709Speaker 1 (Community Hall): the existing, property lines from the four different parcels are not shown on the map, and the ownership is also not, clearly stated for all the percentage of ownership. There is a supplemental map, within the supplemental, reports, that, that shows the actual ownership.
2482
05:58:40.830 --> 05:58:55.819Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I don't know if this rises to the level of saying that this map is… is incomplete. If it is, that's… that's interesting to know. Otherwise, this would be a condition to have it,
248305:58:56.100 --> 05:59:01.140Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Fixed within, 30 days for staff-level approval.
2484
05:59:02.430 --> 05:59:14.249Pam Lee, Item #3: And I'll defer to the planning on that, since they're more familiar with the vesting tentative map that was submitted in this case, and they can probably speak better to the requirements.
248505:59:18.170 --> 05:59:21.980Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, just for disclosure, this used to be my work.
2486
05:59:24.560 --> 05:59:30.380Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I don't have the answer. I would want to run that by Public Works, honestly, since it's the vesting tentative map.
248705:59:31.390 --> 05:59:39.369Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Yeah, I don't know if there's a requirement to show the existing property lines
on the map as well, or if it could be done on a separate sheet.
248805:59:40.250 --> 05:59:41.730Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Sometimes.
248905:59:44.860 --> 05:59:45.710Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Hmm?
2490
05:59:46.670 --> 05:59:51.490Speaker 12 (Community Hall): And council members. Jennifer Chu, Senior Civil Engineer with Public Works Department.
249105:59:51.745 --> 05:59:58.734Speaker 7 (Community Hall): So, with regards to the vesting tentative map, it's actually a.
2492
05:59:58.995 --> 06:00:11.535Speaker 36 (Community Hall): a plan set that consists of several sheets, so, while the vesting tentative map sheet, TM1.0, shows the proposed parcels, there is, another sheet
2493
06:00:11.835 --> 06:00:17.314Speaker 36 (Community Hall): C1.0, that does show the existing, lot lines.
2494
06:00:17.320 --> 06:00:30.380
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, they're combined in there? Okay. Correct, yes. Okay, so even though this is
the one plan that says vesting tentative map, you're saying that another plan is incorporated into it?
249506:00:30.385 --> 06:00:36.384Speaker 36 (Community Hall): That's correct. And there actually is a sheet index that provides all the different sheets for the tentative map.
2496
06:00:36.385 --> 06:00:55.705
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, and have… so on the… on the front sheet for the vesting tentative, it has
the owners listed, but it is not, like, the complete, from the title report, list of the owners with all of their fractional interests. And do you… are… do you have that on another page?
249706:00:56.040 --> 06:01:02.849Speaker 36 (Community Hall): That is not noted on any other page that I'm aware of, and I don't believe it is…
2498
06:01:03.070 --> 06:01:06.189Speaker 36 (Community Hall): a requirement for… from the Subdivision Map Act.
249906:01:06.520 --> 06:01:21.730Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, well, it should be matching what's in the title report, and the supplemental report does indicate it, which I… I greatly appreciate, but I… for me, I would want this to be a
correction. I don't think it's a fatal,
250006:01:21.870 --> 06:01:26.890Speaker 1 (Community Hall): issue, though, for the… for the vesting tentative.
250106:01:27.910 --> 06:01:38.239Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I would like to see, and since you're saying this is part of the complete set, I
would like to see the bioretention removed from the intersection.
250206:01:38.240 --> 06:01:58.420Speaker 1 (Community Hall): area, and placed in… go back to a typical section from the city where you have the curb, the parkway, which would be bioretention, and then the sidewalk, to not have that bottleneck. Is that something that we… I don't know who to even ask this of… is that something that we can request and,
2503
06:01:58.680 --> 06:02:02.650
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And along with that request, I would want the cul-de-sac.
250406:02:03.180 --> 06:02:19.060Speaker 1 (Community Hall): bulb to be removed, and for this to be a, a proper, proper hammerhead
turnaround, with the, standard curve onto A Street. I believe you can…
2505
06:02:19.460 --> 06:02:44.309
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): acquire, probably two, at least, parking spaces if they were to remove this odd alignment, and it… I think it'll also improve, driver comfort in that area where they can… they're seeing something that they're used to, rather than going down to the end of the street, and then seeing it widen out with red curb, and then have the odd points at the… at the end with it, where
2506
06:02:44.310 --> 06:02:51.100
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): the hammerhead starts. Is that, you know, who do I… who do I ask of that?
250706:02:51.530 --> 06:02:54.770Speaker 1 (Community Hall): The applicant, perhaps? Okay.
250806:02:56.135 --> 06:03:10.314
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): So, that design was a function of months of review back and forth with the
fire department. They specifically asked for that… Can you get your mic closer? That way it is, the cul-de-sac
design, so…
250906:03:10.395 --> 06:03:16.494Speaker 16 (Community Hall): We're not agreeable to changing the design of the project if it's going to make it unapprovable.
2510
06:03:17.805 --> 06:03:27.384
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): And again, I don't know if they're in a position to make a decision on the
spot, as I do know that was months and months of going back with them to get the design that we have.
251106:03:27.390 --> 06:03:28.130Speaker 35 (Community Hall): Okay.
2512
06:03:28.135 --> 06:03:37.195
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Do you see the merits of having it be a straight hammerhead and potentially
picking up parking? Because you are really… you don't have any guest parking.
251306:03:37.360 --> 06:03:39.659Speaker 35 (Community Hall): Yeah, so I appreciate that…
2514
06:03:40.160 --> 06:03:50.620
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): the thought for the design, because it was such a steady thing, and how
many months it took us to get something to get fire to prove, I'm not in a position to say, yes.
251506:03:50.850 --> 06:03:56.710Speaker 16 (Community Hall): Because I think so many things impacted this cul-de-sac and the hammerhead.
2516
06:03:57.160 --> 06:04:00.200
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): To redesign it on the spot here.
251706:04:01.050 --> 06:04:07.050Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Hmm. Well, that is interesting. So, the,
2518
06:04:08.400 --> 06:04:22.209Speaker 1 (Community Hall): the response that I got to, some of my questions, is that the hammerhead turnaround is the designated fire turnaround for the project, and not the cul-de-sac. So that's in…
251906:04:22.435 --> 06:04:24.305Speaker 35 (Community Hall): That is supplemental.
2520
06:04:24.310 --> 06:04:32.649Speaker 16 (Community Hall): how we started it, just like the compromise on the two stories that we had worked with, Councilmember Foreman, just like the…
252106:04:32.935 --> 06:04:35.874Speaker 37 (Community Hall): Non-combustible fence. These are things that…
2522
06:04:36.880 --> 06:04:40.299Speaker 16 (Community Hall): That we worked with the fire department, whether…
252306:04:40.460 --> 06:04:44.569Speaker 16 (Community Hall): The code's specifically required to have two turnarounds.
2524
06:04:44.900 --> 06:04:50.800
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): we worked with the fire department. Our understanding was that the hammerhead was adequate.
252506:04:51.430 --> 06:04:56.389Speaker 16 (Community Hall): The fire department asked us to look at the cul-de-sac to see if we can also have that as a terminal.
2526
06:04:56.395 --> 06:04:57.145Speaker 37 (Community Hall): around.
252706:04:57.150 --> 06:04:57.889Speaker 16 (Community Hall): And we worked with.
2528
06:04:57.895 --> 06:04:59.395
Speaker 37 (Community Hall): Fire Department, just like we have.
252906:04:59.395 --> 06:05:01.805
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): I've tried to work with every different department to
2530
06:05:01.915 --> 06:05:06.644
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): to incorporate things that they think makes the project better. So the…
253106:05:07.690 --> 06:05:13.569Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, with the fire chief, please respond to this.
2532
06:05:16.770 --> 06:05:21.930
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Because I… I don't really feel that this is something within the…
253306:05:22.130 --> 06:05:29.040Speaker 1 (Community Hall): the, fire chief's purview, for street design.
2534
06:05:29.870 --> 06:05:35.719
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So you're sort of… you're kind of treading into the civil engineering street
design area.
253506:05:35.940 --> 06:05:37.790Speaker 9 (Community Hall): Yeah, so,
2536
06:05:39.650 --> 06:05:56.119
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): I… neither of us were involved in the back and forth that took place between
the fire department, our plan reviewer, and the applicant in the early stages of trying to get the turnaround
design.
253706:05:56.260 --> 06:06:08.400Speaker 9 (Community Hall): But, I believe that the project was initially proposing a cul-de-sac, and… When,
2538
06:06:08.890 --> 06:06:18.340
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): we look at our design standard for cul-de-sacs, and it was determined that the
project would not be able to meet that design. That's when the
253906:06:18.630 --> 06:06:21.619Speaker 9 (Community Hall): modified Hammerhead got introduced, so…
2540
06:06:21.760 --> 06:06:34.429
Speaker 9 (Community Hall): From our perspective, we are looking for one compliant turnaround, and we
don't have an opinion on whether that is,
254106:06:34.480 --> 06:06:49.280Speaker 9 (Community Hall): What's currently proposed, or if the project were to propose, what you're suggesting, and just a compliant hammerhead, from… we would be okay with that, as long as it's compliant
with our standard.
2542
06:06:49.800 --> 06:06:56.099Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you. I think it would be much better for the residents, future residents.
2543
06:06:56.550 --> 06:07:07.390
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): and considering it is the city's land, I really don't understand why we cannot
have a say in how it's being designed.
254406:07:07.790 --> 06:07:10.529Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Accordingly, with the bioretention.
2545
06:07:10.810 --> 06:07:30.329
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Because if you move the bioretention from the front, and you use it in the
parkway strip area, then you've got the same functional area of bioretention, and you don't have the bottleneck at the front, which is something I'm concerned with, and the fire chief has already said that in order to, if I'm…
254606:07:30.510 --> 06:07:49.519Speaker 1 (Community Hall): gonna paraphrase that the… if the fire truck is coming from the north to the
south in order to make the right-hand turn, it's going to need to encroach into the oncoming traffic lane, if I
understood correctly, which to me is not a good design there either, so I'm…
254706:07:49.800 --> 06:07:51.669Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Again, I'm really gonna…
254806:07:52.330 --> 06:08:00.659
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): push for these two things, because I don't think it's really your right to tell us
how we're going to design our street.
254906:08:01.280 --> 06:08:03.360Speaker 35 (Community Hall): You want to address the…
255006:08:03.850 --> 06:08:08.860
Speaker 37 (Community Hall): Hi, Ryan Henson with, CBG, the Civil Engineer. There's…
255106:08:10.290 --> 06:08:12.420Speaker 37 (Community Hall): There's 3 parts to, I think.
255206:08:13.120 --> 06:08:15.930Speaker 22 (Community Hall): You know, the entrance, the bowl.
2553
06:08:16.270 --> 06:08:19.050Speaker 9 (Community Hall): the bio in the end, so I'll try to take them and.
2554
06:08:19.050 --> 06:08:20.100
Speaker 38 (Community Hall): parts.
255506:08:20.320 --> 06:08:28.930Speaker 38 (Community Hall): the entrance, as far as the turning, these are 30-foot radii. This is what is
required to get trucks around, whether
255606:08:29.210 --> 06:08:34.259Speaker 38 (Community Hall): Our turning template is shown from the south or the north. It is in compliance.
255706:08:34.360 --> 06:08:41.690
Speaker 38 (Community Hall): We can get the truck through there, and we do meet the minimum standard.
As far as the bulb-out location, a lot of this is driven
255806:08:41.880 --> 06:08:58.729Speaker 38 (Community Hall): by two things. One, our requirement to treat off-site impervious surface under the new MRP 3.0. Also, when you come around a corner like this, say you're coming southbound on Linda Vista into the court, when you do have parking.
2559
06:08:58.810 --> 06:09:18.069
Speaker 38 (Community Hall): around the corner, we do like to use these bulb-outs as protection, because
you do get a car that might be right on the inside of the public road, someone comes around the corner, and so by having these bulb outs, it does give that car a little bit of protection as you come around. If the requirement was to remove it from
256006:09:18.120 --> 06:09:28.740
Speaker 38 (Community Hall): the inner Evaluch Court, area, the alternative would be to remove parking
along Linda Vista with a very similar,
256106:09:28.740 --> 06:09:38.899Speaker 38 (Community Hall): bioretention pocket, if you will, because all of this is is treating as the public right-of-way. So, given the, road design of Linda Vista.
2562
06:09:38.960 --> 06:09:55.900
Speaker 38 (Community Hall): we didn't want to have just this one little pocket where parking was going to
be removed from Linda Vista. So, it not only gave us the protection, it met our treatment requirements, and,
you know, traffic calming, what have you, we still met the fire department turnaround, you know, as we come into the project.
256306:09:56.030 --> 06:09:59.409Speaker 38 (Community Hall): As far as the end of the road, I will point out, while
2564
06:09:59.850 --> 06:10:06.309
Speaker 38 (Community Hall): We do need the hammerhead, and we comply with the hammerhead at the end for fire purposes.
2565
06:10:06.730 --> 06:10:12.180Speaker 38 (Community Hall): I'd also like to mention, or note that, you know, on daily deliveries, Amazon trucks.
2566
06:10:12.360 --> 06:10:24.140
Speaker 38 (Community Hall): they're likely to use the hammer, or sorry, the cul-de-sac more often, right?
We're talking about an emergency where a fire truck might come down to the end, but this is a public road,
256706:10:24.920 --> 06:10:44.719Speaker 38 (Community Hall): if we have this straight off, like a hammerhead, like I think you're imagining, anybody who comes down there and just so happens to go to A Street would then have to come onto A Street, which is the private road, use the hammerhead, and back out, whereas I think the cul-de-sac might
be a better opportunity for them to make a U-turn, if you will, around the cul-de-sac, and then get back out
to Linda Vista.
256806:10:45.530 --> 06:10:56.160Speaker 1 (Community Hall): With no area for them to, park in order to… because you only have 10 parking spaces for the guests for this
2569
06:10:56.380 --> 06:11:15.379
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): project, and very likely, it's California, half the garage is used as a storage cell.
So, you're probably going to end up with people trying real hard to get the closest parking spaces to their
unit, and having half their garage filled up with stuff.
257006:11:15.870 --> 06:11:34.900Speaker 37 (Community Hall): So, in respect to the garage, this is part of an HOA. It's going to be managed by the HOA, and the requirements in the HOA are that parking garages are not to be used for anything
except parking, and the HOA does oversee that, and they do inspections for that. In respect to parking, I do
believe we have
257106:11:35.120 --> 06:11:39.389Speaker 37 (Community Hall): Mets the city's requirement for the parking for the project.
257206:11:39.590 --> 06:11:49.980
Speaker 37 (Community Hall): I think the nuisance of trucks and vehicles going into the hammerhead for
deliveries in order to turn around is worse than trying to add
257306:11:50.130 --> 06:12:00.540Speaker 37 (Community Hall): few parking spots. We spent, as I said, over 14 months developing this plan and getting it approved by the city, bringing it before you tonight. I don't think it's… it's a right.
2574
06:12:00.540 --> 06:12:11.729
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): forum to redesign a site plan. It's not that I'm trying to force a design on the
city, it's a design that's evolved in working with public works, planning.
257506:12:11.945 --> 06:12:17.265
Speaker 37 (Community Hall): fire, and coming up with the solutions that's here. I just don't think… this is…
2576
06:12:17.265 --> 06:12:20.684
Speaker 16 (Community Hall): The forum to redesign a project.
257706:12:22.330 --> 06:12:27.350Speaker 1 (Community Hall): But you've offered an alternative design with a two-story,
2578
06:12:27.750 --> 06:12:34.359
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): houses on the edge, which would be, basically redesigning at the, 11th hour.
257906:12:34.365 --> 06:12:35.065Speaker 35 (Community Hall): That's correct.
2580
06:12:35.070 --> 06:12:48.070
Speaker 37 (Community Hall): to accommodate council members' requests, that's to accommodate the
neighbors. That's a much simpler fix than trying to redesign a site plan that we have spent 14 months
258106:12:48.250 --> 06:12:53.409Speaker 37 (Community Hall): With enormous amount of… Time and effort on staff's part.
2582
06:12:53.520 --> 06:13:00.620
Speaker 37 (Community Hall): our consultant's part to come up with something that works. What you're
recommending is redesigning a site.
258306:13:01.490 --> 06:13:02.340Speaker 1 (Community Hall): The street.
2584
06:13:03.180 --> 06:13:05.990
Speaker 37 (Community Hall): That is part of this site.
258506:13:05.990 --> 06:13:08.040Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Minor, yeah. Okay.
258606:13:08.040 --> 06:13:32.009
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, also, with regards to this… this street and the… and the right-of-way, there
could have been a vacation of the street. It's been in city ownership for… for decades. It could have been
vacated and… and had a more, in my opinion, more appropriate, driveway design, which would be a, with
two entrances.
258706:13:32.010 --> 06:13:39.170Speaker 1 (Community Hall): For the… for the residents, and I, you know, I regret that that could not be done. So thank you.
2588
06:13:40.350 --> 06:13:51.160
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, we have… we are closing the public hearing, and does anyone have a motion that they would care to make at this time, for purposes of deliberation?
2589
06:13:59.450 --> 06:14:00.580
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Mayor.
259006:14:03.770 --> 06:14:06.490Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Can we, vote on.
259106:14:06.495 --> 06:14:10.205
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): on the AB130 exemption separately.
2592
06:14:10.495 --> 06:14:15.805Speaker 4 (Community Hall): from… determination on that first.
259306:14:15.810 --> 06:14:28.740Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Well, I think I would take the… an easier vote to go first, which would be to
look at the, trail access, and take that one separately. So I'm…
2594
06:14:28.920 --> 06:14:36.610Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I move that we, deny the trail access, Second. Okay.
259506:14:36.850 --> 06:14:38.509Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Do we have any comments on this?
2596
06:14:43.170 --> 06:14:53.599
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): No, I don't… yeah, I also don't think that trail access is necessary. And, also, based on the design, it seems…
259706:14:53.740 --> 06:14:56.690Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Could create slope,
2598
06:14:56.870 --> 06:15:07.519
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Stability issue on the trail, and so there are other issues that might be created by the trail access, so…
259906:15:08.270 --> 06:15:15.060Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. I think these are… I think these are new requests to speak,
Councilmember Fruen, and then Councilmember Mohan.
2600
06:15:15.260 --> 06:15:15.760Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Yeah.
2601
06:15:15.765 --> 06:15:24.664
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I think that the trail access would actually be a very nice public amenity for the neighborhood. I think it's unfortunate that it's looking like there's not consensus on that.
2602
06:15:26.010 --> 06:15:27.530
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And Councilmember Mohan?
260306:15:27.930 --> 06:15:41.020Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Right, I sort of wanted to echo what Councilmember Fluent said. I thought the trail access would make sense. I've actually looked at it and saw how it connected with the Lindavista Trail.
2604
06:15:41.200 --> 06:15:47.310
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And, if we do it now, it will be less costly than when we do it later.
260506:15:47.470 --> 06:15:51.409Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And in the big scheme of things, it's not such a big deal.
260606:15:51.530 --> 06:15:58.719
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): But, and of all the issues we've discussed today, this is probably the… Least
consequential.
260706:15:59.000 --> 06:16:10.099Speaker 6 (Community Hall): But, just from my personal point of view, I like trails, and I thought this was a sort of a natural connection between the property and the Linda Vista Trail.
2608
06:16:10.730 --> 06:16:11.640
Community Hall: Alright.
260906:16:15.560 --> 06:16:21.170Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Are we ready to vote on this item? Madam City Clerk, will you please, set the vote?
2610
06:16:29.590 --> 06:16:34.920
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The motion is to deny. Yes means to deny. Yes means deny.
261106:16:39.860 --> 06:16:43.689Speaker 17 (Community Hall): The motion carries with Ferwin and Mohan voting no.
261206:16:44.200 --> 06:16:44.830
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay.
2613
06:16:45.560 --> 06:16:52.859Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So next we have some, more… Challenging items to look at.
2614
06:16:53.520 --> 06:16:57.310
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I do wish to ask,
261506:16:58.490 --> 06:17:06.220Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Should we make, should we make a motion in order to have the, the…
2616
06:17:06.750 --> 06:17:27.129Speaker 1 (Community Hall): issue with the ownership, clarified on the vesting tentative map to match the supplemental materials, so I… I would like to see that changed on the vesting tentative map, so that it coincides with the supplemental materials that staff provided, and I'll…
261706:17:27.290 --> 06:17:29.749
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Scroll to that so you can see it.
261806:17:30.230 --> 06:17:35.570Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so, I need to screen share…
261906:17:43.440 --> 06:17:50.970Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay… Here we go. Okay, so this was provided… By staff.
2620
06:17:52.360 --> 06:17:59.780Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And it shows the, 4… Parcels…
262106:18:01.740 --> 06:18:08.420Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And here's the actual ownership for each of the parcels. So…
2622
06:18:09.000 --> 06:18:24.060
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): since the property lines are… they apparently show up on a different plan, but on the… on the cover sheet, you have the ownership, so my motion would be that the ownership matches,
262306:18:24.190 --> 06:18:27.110Speaker 1 (Community Hall): That which was provided in the supplemental report.
2624
06:18:27.750 --> 06:18:35.379
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And it would need to be showing the assessor's, just like you see here, showing the assessor's parcels, parcel number.
262506:18:35.620 --> 06:18:40.279Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And I like that it shows the address and who owns what.
2626
06:18:41.560 --> 06:18:51.980
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, assessor's parcel 35606001 would show up. It would be a little table that would be added. I like it because it makes it more precise.
2627
06:18:53.100 --> 06:18:58.909
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I would support that, but I hope we vote on the AB130 first, if that's…
262806:18:59.210 --> 06:19:03.790Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We agree that it would pass, then we go under project approval.
2629
06:19:04.530 --> 06:19:08.720Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, it seems we should make a determination on 8130.
263006:19:08.725 --> 06:19:09.455Speaker 39 (Community Hall): First.
2631
06:19:09.690 --> 06:19:11.740
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, make your motion then.
263206:19:12.500 --> 06:19:21.040Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Okay, ow… I'll make the motion to…
2633
06:19:22.590 --> 06:19:26.180
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): find the project not exempt from CEQA?
263406:19:27.040 --> 06:19:28.530Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And I'm sure…
2635
06:19:28.970 --> 06:19:38.339
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I'm sharing my, this is a document from David J. Powers for the AP130 Secret
exemption. It's very insufficient.
263606:19:38.500 --> 06:19:40.930Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The reasons it listed there.
2637
06:19:41.400 --> 06:19:55.659
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): that a project can be located within a very high fire severity zone. If it adopts
fire hazardous mitigation measure, nowhere does it even mention the building code
263806:19:55.680 --> 06:20:08.170Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the city adopted in November. And then it goes on to say the project would implement various strategies and majors, but these are the various strategies and majors. That was…
2639
06:20:08.330 --> 06:20:12.999
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Proposed to get the reduction of the 30-foot setback.
264006:20:13.750 --> 06:20:28.579Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And, according to the fire chief, they did not check the justification to even
allow reduction of a 30-foot setback, which, according to the government code, says it shall…
2641
06:20:29.480 --> 06:20:38.769
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): on… it shall… provide evidence… I think… Need the language somewhere.
264206:20:40.610 --> 06:20:42.070Community Hall: S.
2643
06:20:44.310 --> 06:20:50.130
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yeah, I think the government code says that It's shown.
264406:20:50.750 --> 06:21:04.999Speaker 4 (Community Hall): be based upon practical reasons, which may include, but not limited to, parcel dimension and density requirements, but according to other site restrictions. But none of those is,
2645
06:21:05.490 --> 06:21:14.770
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): economical reason or design choice. So I don't think this, the 30-foot setback
reduction should even be allowed.
264606:21:14.890 --> 06:21:21.469Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And that means the project does not comply with adopted mitigation measures.
2647
06:21:23.390 --> 06:21:38.940
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So it shouldn't be allowed to be exempt from CEQA. And the city also does not have any adopted mitigation measures to allow any exemption for very high fire severity zone. That's on the record.
264806:21:42.330 --> 06:21:43.819
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So that's my motion.
2649
06:21:53.330 --> 06:21:55.199Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Can you reread your motion one more time?
265006:21:56.470 --> 06:21:57.060Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Oh.
2651
06:21:58.630 --> 06:22:08.069
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The motion is just to… and find the project not exempt from CEQA per AB130, because… And that's it?
265206:22:08.070 --> 06:22:11.539Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That's clean, just, okay, so I'll make sure, okay. The others.
2653
06:22:12.190 --> 06:22:13.559
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Okay, I'll second that.
265406:22:17.500 --> 06:22:19.499Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We need to include the reasons?
2655
06:22:19.770 --> 06:22:20.560Speaker 4 (Community Hall): You don't?
265606:22:24.330 --> 06:22:24.745Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Oh.
2657
06:22:26.310 --> 06:22:28.940
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Can I ask a quick question about that?
265806:22:29.290 --> 06:22:34.560Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Maybe the attorneys can tell us what would be the consequences of not exempting from CEQA?
2659
06:22:39.630 --> 06:22:43.660
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): The approvals that are being requested here would not be approved.
266006:22:43.860 --> 06:22:51.829Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And… Then it would be up to… the applicant to…
2661
06:22:51.960 --> 06:22:57.079
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): You know, take legal action against the city to get approvals.
266206:23:01.120 --> 06:23:05.339Speaker 5 (Community Hall): To the Mayor, I have a question for the attorney. Are you done with your question?
2663
06:23:06.180 --> 06:23:09.680
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Oh, is… we're trying to get a clarification? Is that what people are asking?
266406:23:09.980 --> 06:23:16.859Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, so the question was… I think your earlier question was, what's the consequences if we don't approve, the exemption from CEQA?
2665
06:23:16.980 --> 06:23:20.009
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And then my question to you is, what are the consequences if we allow
266606:23:20.110 --> 06:23:32.969Speaker 5 (Community Hall): 800 residents to be in a severe fire, with no evacuation routes. That's… that's
the other question. A legal question? Is there a legal ramification for us making that determination?
Because…
266706:23:33.200 --> 06:23:36.940Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We're being asked to choose between two really bad questions.
2668
06:23:37.150 --> 06:23:38.020Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Writing.
266906:23:38.730 --> 06:23:40.420Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Some of it's less worse.
2670
06:23:40.560 --> 06:23:46.980
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Right? Toxic chemicals, fire safety risk, and almost 1,000 lives at risk, versus a housing law that's theoretical.
267106:23:47.320 --> 06:23:58.519Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I mean, it's a law, but it's theoretical that it's okay to put people's lives in risk in a fire zone. And so that's the question. What's the legal consequence for us making a decision saying, this
thing is exempt, and then
267206:23:58.680 --> 06:24:02.020Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You know, we have a huge fire, and a thousand people Can't get out.
267306:24:02.300 --> 06:24:06.230Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That's my moral obligation and question that's going through my head right
now.
267406:24:06.580 --> 06:24:07.220Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Understood.
267506:24:07.225 --> 06:24:12.475Speaker 2 (Community Hall): the city, would be immune under Government Code 818.4.
2676
06:24:13.815 --> 06:24:15.385Speaker 2 (Community Hall): The city's legal immunity.
267706:24:15.495 --> 06:24:16.675Speaker 2 (Community Hall): would apply.
2678
06:24:18.970 --> 06:24:23.779
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): The city is immune, but legally, legally, it's okay for a thousand people to be at risk.
2679
06:24:23.785 --> 06:24:25.285
Speaker 13 (Community Hall): I'm not saying.
268006:24:25.285 --> 06:24:27.524Speaker 2 (Community Hall): that. I'm saying that… The law might be.
2681
06:24:27.525 --> 06:24:30.675Speaker 5 (Community Hall): be saying that. I'm not saying you're saying that, I'm saying the law might be saying that.
268206:24:30.965 --> 06:24:33.954Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So that's… okay, I just wanted to get that clarification.
2683
06:24:35.295 --> 06:24:36.684Speaker 6 (Community Hall): If I could just…
268406:24:36.690 --> 06:24:47.520Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Hold on, we're getting out of order. Councilmember Fruen? And please, if you've spoke, clear the queue out. Okay, thank you. So, Councilmember Fruen, Vice Mayor.
2685
06:24:48.490 --> 06:24:53.590Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Thank you. So, again, in clarification, You know, a denial…
268606:24:53.940 --> 06:25:04.539Speaker 8 (Community Hall): of the AB130 exemption as a denial of the project. It's also independently a violation of the Housing Accountability Act. That would entitle not just the applicant to sue.
2687
06:25:04.660 --> 06:25:06.809Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Perhaps they walk away from the project.
268806:25:07.160 --> 06:25:19.229Speaker 8 (Community Hall): That doesn't mean that we're off the hook. Both HCD, the Attorney General's Office, and any housing advocacy organization can still sue the city, and would.
2689
06:25:19.870 --> 06:25:29.819Speaker 8 (Community Hall): If the housing element is decertified, which I think seems incredibly likely, especially based upon Governor Newsom's comments yesterday for those cities that don't currently have a housing element.
269006:25:30.110 --> 06:25:35.489
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): then what you're looking at is builder's remedy projects all over the city.
269106:25:36.060 --> 06:25:42.530Speaker 8 (Community Hall): So… This is a perfect victory if what you're thinking is that you'll just stop one project.
269206:25:42.650 --> 06:25:52.480Speaker 8 (Community Hall): It could also just be approved by a judge. That would be another consequence. So, you lose all the money from all the fines and fees, which are on an order of magnitude of millions.
2693
06:25:52.960 --> 06:25:54.790
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): And the project still gets approved.
269406:25:54.900 --> 06:25:56.209Speaker 8 (Community Hall): You've solved nothing.
2695
06:25:56.600 --> 06:26:08.570
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): If you want to use our public resources better, and if what we actually care
about is the public safety, it's very clear from the health and safety element revision that we're working on right now.
269606:26:08.680 --> 06:26:24.319Speaker 8 (Community Hall): that there is a lot of concern that we already have based upon the current state of affairs. So we should be allocating our time and resources on enacting policy that helps protect the
whole community, not just from a project.
269706:26:25.200 --> 06:26:34.250Speaker 8 (Community Hall): and making certain that we're hardening the space for the future, because the fire maps will change again. I mean, Saratoga, for example, used to be
269806:26:34.870 --> 06:26:53.940
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): at least half all-in very high fire hazard severity zone. Cupertino now has a little
bit more. The next time that the maps change, who knows exactly what the situation will be. We can spend
money through the budget process, money that we would otherwise throw away on attorneys and fines and
who knows what else.
269906:26:54.750 --> 06:27:01.869Speaker 8 (Community Hall): and spend the time that we should on trying to make this space safer. So, I think that we do more things through
2700
06:27:02.000 --> 06:27:13.939
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): the health and safety revision, and we add some money to actually create better hardening in this area. That's what I think that we do. There's a much better stewardship of our public resources, including
270106:27:14.070 --> 06:27:24.240
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): the money in our general fund, which we can ill afford to use right now based
upon what our budget outlook is. So, I think this is a fool's errand to deny this project on this basis.
270206:27:24.800 --> 06:27:25.510Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Hmm.
270306:27:26.030 --> 06:27:27.550Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Hey. Vice Mayor?
2704
06:27:27.730 --> 06:27:28.880
Speaker 39 (Community Hall): So…
270506:27:29.180 --> 06:27:37.099Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I understand, we… I think our obligation on the City Council is to obey the state law.
2706
06:27:37.220 --> 06:27:45.870
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the law as written, and according to the law of AB130 as written, I couldn't find
the…
270706:27:46.160 --> 06:27:56.489Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Sufficient evidence from the record we have that we have adopted the mitigation measures so that we can exempt a very high fire severity zone.
2708
06:27:56.530 --> 06:28:11.870
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I understand that HCD now has a tendency to make their own interpretation of the law, unfortunately. I would like to clarify for the Builder's Remedy project that the CT denied
270906:28:11.940 --> 06:28:14.480Speaker 4 (Community Hall): it was… they turned…
2710
06:28:14.780 --> 06:28:28.860
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the decision was made solely by the former city attorney, Chris Jensen, without consulting with any council member. It was solely his legal interpretation that the applicant should not have
271106:28:28.860 --> 06:28:39.130Speaker 4 (Community Hall): a limited number of 90 days to resubmit projects until they complete the application. And that's the common interpretation of any law.
2712
06:28:39.150 --> 06:28:46.320Speaker 4 (Community Hall): But unfortunately, HCD is trying to overwrite this common sense interpretation of the law.
271306:28:46.520 --> 06:28:53.550Speaker 4 (Community Hall): By now, instructing The cities, and the court is following that, that they can…
2714
06:28:54.020 --> 06:29:03.220Speaker 4 (Community Hall): unlimited number of 90 days to submit an application. So I understand our risk of just following the law as written.
2715
06:29:03.220 --> 06:29:14.170Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Because we have a super agency, now somehow was given the superpower by the legislator to make up their own interpretation of the law on the fly.
2716
06:29:14.850 --> 06:29:17.990
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Should we just then be so scared and…
271706:29:18.840 --> 06:29:20.760Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Try to not follow the law?
2718
06:29:21.030 --> 06:29:25.459
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): but followed the maybe interpretation of HCD,
271906:29:26.220 --> 06:29:29.850Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I don't know what that makes us.
272006:29:31.130 --> 06:29:34.509
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Scarity cat that doesn't follow the law?
2721
06:29:35.790 --> 06:29:44.519Speaker 4 (Community Hall): But we follow a super god who wants to just approve every project, regardless of the safety of the community.
272206:29:45.530 --> 06:29:49.749
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yeah, it's… I think…
2723
06:29:50.460 --> 06:30:09.959Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And back to the question of Councilmember Moorhead, if we find the project not exempt from CEQA, that does not mean denying the project. That simply means we would require a CEQA process for the project. And that does not mean the project,
2724
06:30:09.960 --> 06:30:17.100
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Cannot be built. The project definitely can provide 30-foot setback with
272506:30:17.540 --> 06:30:30.070Speaker 4 (Community Hall): actual starter homes. Like, all the… many of the speakers who support the project says, we want to provide more starter homes for people, for young people who are starting.
2726
06:30:30.140 --> 06:30:41.609
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Who started with 2,000 square foot, 2,500 square foot, 4-bedroom as a starter
home? No one did that. That's usually a second or third home.
272706:30:41.840 --> 06:30:47.989Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So… We are not saying denying the project. We are saying…
272806:30:48.830 --> 06:30:54.930Speaker 4 (Community Hall): do a CQR, process, and… Gave us the project
2729
06:30:55.410 --> 06:31:05.730
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): This site was intended for starter, smaller starter homes with sufficient setback
for site fire safety. There is
273006:31:05.880 --> 06:31:18.910Speaker 4 (Community Hall): there will be sufficient profit, just maybe not as large as a 4-bedroom townhome project. But three, two, three-bedroom townhome project will actually be more affordable
2731
06:31:19.140 --> 06:31:36.090
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): For young families, and these are the kind of homes we need in Cupertino, because we have so many 4-bedroom single-family homes, but we don't have as many 2- or 3-bedroom, smaller, even smaller 4-bedrooms. We don't have them.
273206:31:36.480 --> 06:31:37.780Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So we need them.
2733
06:31:38.000 --> 06:31:39.240Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, in…
273406:31:39.270 --> 06:31:59.169Speaker 4 (Community Hall): finding the CQA, denying the CQA exemption under AB130 does not mean we don't want housing on this project. We want them. We want the kind that actually meet our housing goal,
which is to provide housing that
273506:31:59.410 --> 06:32:00.669Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We are missing.
273606:32:05.320 --> 06:32:14.459Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you, Vice Mayor. It seems, though, that you're asking to have a
redesign of the project,
273706:32:14.560 --> 06:32:22.050Speaker 1 (Community Hall): and I would personally be looking more towards a quantifiable, health and safety impact.
273806:32:22.430 --> 06:32:29.479
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Which is, you know, really how I've been, spending, my time, so,
273906:32:30.070 --> 06:32:49.859Speaker 1 (Community Hall): First, looking at, the evacuation study, then looking at any issues with the vesting tentative map, and then, of course, as you've heard, going through all of the environmental site
assessments in the process, which the owners went through,
2740
06:32:50.200 --> 06:32:51.000
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Edit.
274106:32:51.150 --> 06:33:02.529Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So I… I don't… I'm not hearing that you have a quantifiable health and safety impact. So my concern there is that, you know, I had…
2742
06:33:02.930 --> 06:33:14.840
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): hoped that, with regards to the evacuation study, that there was a potential that we could use, SB131 for a limited, focused,
274306:33:15.060 --> 06:33:29.109Speaker 1 (Community Hall): evacuation study in there. The problem is we don't have objective standards to
meet, even if that evacuation study is conducted. And so that
2744
06:33:29.500 --> 06:33:31.790Speaker 1 (Community Hall): That's the challenge there.
274506:33:31.990 --> 06:33:32.850Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Oh, maybe.
2746
06:33:32.855 --> 06:33:35.075
Speaker 35 (Community Hall): respond? Please.
274706:33:35.430 --> 06:33:54.439Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That's a very good point. Actually, the missing adopted mitigation standard adopted by the City of Cupertino to allow exemption under AB 130 should include the evacuation study, an
objective standard.
2748
06:33:54.570 --> 06:33:56.109Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, I guess…
274906:33:56.120 --> 06:34:08.419Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I'm happy to amend the motion to include a direction to… to the staff, and
then… or maybe the applicant, to, bring…
2750
06:34:08.420 --> 06:34:27.500Speaker 4 (Community Hall): as a project that contains smaller units to provide starter homes for Cupertino, and for the staff to quickly adopt actual mitigation measures for very high fire severity zone, including evacuation analysis and study.
2751
06:34:28.140 --> 06:34:43.409
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And then, perhaps, objective standard for reduction, of, setback, when
necessary. I think the fire department can adopt their own standard for setback, the city can adopt
275206:34:44.370 --> 06:34:47.289Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Also, a more structured standard.
2753
06:34:49.620 --> 06:34:50.290
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Right?
275406:34:50.290 --> 06:35:00.350Pam Lee, Item #3: If I could chime in, Vice Mayor Zhao, the motion that is on the table now is with respect to whether or not this proposed project
2755
06:35:01.420 --> 06:35:15.310
Pam Lee, Item #3: complies with or is applicable for a statutory exemption under AB 130. I believe that the staff and the written materials and the oral testimony, thus far
275606:35:15.910 --> 06:35:22.170Pam Lee, Item #3: Have indicated that there are, sufficient grounds, and…
2757
06:35:22.580 --> 06:35:26.039
Pam Lee, Item #3: Substantial evidence to indicate that there is
275806:35:27.260 --> 06:35:32.689Pam Lee, Item #3: the, availability of compliance, with AB130.
2759
06:35:33.200 --> 06:35:41.050
Pam Lee, Item #3: I'm… With respect to the… Hazard mitigation measures,
276006:35:41.580 --> 06:35:45.849Pam Lee, Item #3: I don't… I can't speak to a specific hazard mitigation plan.
2761
06:35:46.100 --> 06:36:00.090
Pam Lee, Item #3: For the city, but that is very distinctly different from hazard mitigation measures with
respect to a 30-foot setback, which is already codified under state law, which has already been adopted by
the city.
276206:36:00.200 --> 06:36:07.420Pam Lee, Item #3: And it lists out options to mitigate the reduced setback requirement.
2763
06:36:07.480 --> 06:36:20.590
Pam Lee, Item #3: So those are not additional mitigation measures that the city needs to adopt. Those
already exist under state law, which has also been adopted by reference under the California Building Code and the Fire Safe Regulations.
276406:36:20.770 --> 06:36:30.540
Pam Lee, Item #3: If we're talking about a hazard mitigation plan, that is a very different aspect. That is not the topic of today's conversation, but certainly you can direct staff to do that, or update that.
2765
06:36:30.720 --> 06:36:41.580
Pam Lee, Item #3: As well, but I think the motion on the floor is only with respect to whether or not this
project complies with AB130, such that it meets the statutory exception.
276606:36:41.970 --> 06:36:42.470Pam Lee, Item #3: No problem.
2767
06:36:42.470 --> 06:36:44.459
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): No, I didn't talk about plan.
276806:36:44.770 --> 06:36:50.730Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That's not what I said. I did never mention any hazard mitigation plan.
276906:36:51.260 --> 06:36:54.789
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): AB130 says, sites.
2770
06:36:55.240 --> 06:36:58.799Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That have adopted the mitigation measures.
277106:36:59.710 --> 06:37:08.139Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And so I have… The city did not adopt mitigation measures for high fire
severity zone.
2772
06:37:08.890 --> 06:37:09.960Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Period.
277306:37:12.300 --> 06:37:13.510Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We don't.
2774
06:37:14.040 --> 06:37:15.349
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Where is it?
277506:37:16.360 --> 06:37:26.760Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the staff pointed me to the building code adopted in November. That turns out to be building code, that sets to sign maybe Chapter 7A.
2776
06:37:27.590 --> 06:37:30.589
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): To be consistent ways of…
277706:37:30.710 --> 06:37:41.339
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): on county fire. It's not adopted a mitigation major to exempt a project from
CEQA.
277806:37:41.650 --> 06:37:44.170Speaker 4 (Community Hall): For a very high fire stability zone.
2779
06:37:44.640 --> 06:37:48.559Speaker 4 (Community Hall): If you disagree, where is it? Show me the evidence.
278006:37:49.360 --> 06:37:57.350Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And so forth, my… A friendly amend… my amendment to the motion is to direct the staff
2781
06:37:57.470 --> 06:38:08.019Speaker 4 (Community Hall): to bring us proposed mitigation measures for very high fire severity zone, we may consider to adopt.
278206:38:09.310 --> 06:38:11.530Speaker 4 (Community Hall): But they don't exist today.
2783
06:38:12.750 --> 06:38:30.079Speaker 4 (Community Hall): As for the 30-foot setback, yes, the law does allow reduction of 30-foot setback, if there is practical reasons to justify for it. But even when there is practical reasons, there is not
278406:38:30.340 --> 06:38:48.089Speaker 4 (Community Hall): objective standards are limited, there is only some suggested majors. So, for
that, there is actually also no objective… no adopted mitigation major for 24 setback, 10-foot setback, or 0.
There is none.
278506:38:48.940 --> 06:38:58.910Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The… the law that just says reduction is… could be considered If the justification is met.
2786
06:38:59.600 --> 06:39:11.719
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): But what is the reduction? That we didn't never adopted it. The fire
department says that they base that on experience. That's not an adopted mitigation major.
278706:39:12.550 --> 06:39:16.749Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And that's discretionary also, and case-by-case basis.
2788
06:39:18.020 --> 06:39:20.400
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Related to that discussion through the Mayor? Sure.
278906:39:21.000 --> 06:39:28.089Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, I'm a little confused. I think the attorney at Summerhill said they claimed
compliance with 4291,
2790
06:39:28.350 --> 06:39:30.570
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, it must be relevant, but then…
279106:39:31.030 --> 06:39:38.849Speaker 5 (Community Hall): If Summerhaus accepted that 4291 is needed, and 42991 requires a 30-foot setback, do we not need that at all? Is that what we're saying?
2792
06:39:39.670 --> 06:39:40.280
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): So…
279306:39:43.720 --> 06:39:58.169Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I'm not asking you, I'm asking the city attorney, but sorry about that. No, because that's what we saw in some of the documentation, that's why. So, Pam, I mean, do we need it or
do we not need it to certify… to figure out if we're exempt from CEQA or not exempt from CEQA? That's
where my confusion is. Mayor, you're shaking your head.
279406:39:59.650 --> 06:40:11.309Pam Lee, Item #3: Okay. Let's… let's take it step by step, then. AB130 is codified under Public Resources Code 21080.66.
2795
06:40:11.540 --> 06:40:20.769
Pam Lee, Item #3: 21080.66 basically states that, to be… exempt from CEQA.
279606:40:21.000 --> 06:40:29.669Pam Lee, Item #3: as a statutory exemption, it needs to meet all these requirements, and it lists the requirements, I believe, under…
2797
06:40:29.670 --> 06:40:32.400
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Right? 42907A, and 4291, right?
279806:40:32.490 --> 06:40:37.119Pam Lee, Item #3: There were, like, 8 requirements. You know, it has to be in an urban area, it has to be in.
279906:40:37.120 --> 06:40:37.890
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Urban area.
2800
06:40:37.890 --> 06:40:48.360Pam Lee, Item #3: da-da-da-da-da-da. All those other requirements are not at issue. The only requirement I… from today's hearing that I understand is at issue is whether or not the project
280106:40:48.610 --> 06:40:58.680
Pam Lee, Item #3: I'm… is within a high fire hazard severity zone? And if it is, do,
2802
06:40:59.770 --> 06:41:16.270Pam Lee, Item #3: is there enough that allows it not to apply because there are fire hazard mitigation measures? Not necessarily CEQA mitigation measures, but fire hazard mitigation measures that are
2803
06:41:16.380 --> 06:41:27.860
Pam Lee, Item #3: In existence, that there's a list that you can take for, Mitigating your chances of
280406:41:28.110 --> 06:41:32.620Pam Lee, Item #3: Your structure catching on fire or having an adverse impact as a result of a wildfire.
2805
06:41:32.720 --> 06:41:49.000
Pam Lee, Item #3: Those are codified in the existing building code, under 7A of, Title 24 of the California
Code of Regulations, which includes the fire-safe regulations that the fire, chief and…
280606:41:49.010 --> 06:41:58.130Pam Lee, Item #3: Assistant Chief have alluded to and actually provided in detail, in writing, as well as the oral testimony that you heard today.
2807
06:41:58.490 --> 06:42:13.230
Pam Lee, Item #3: Those fire hazard mitigation measures are listed out in that code, which has been
adopted by the city. One of the options for fire hazard mitigation measures includes the list of items that they can
280806:42:13.380 --> 06:42:29.799Pam Lee, Item #3: implement as part of their project in order to get a reduced setback. The setback requirements are codified under Section 4290 and 4291, right? Which I'll speak to.
2809
06:42:29.800 --> 06:42:32.300Speaker 40 (Community Hall): That's fine. You are lying.
281006:42:33.740 --> 06:42:37.739Pam Lee, Item #3: Chapter 7A, which includes the fire and building codes, and the.
2811
06:42:37.740 --> 06:42:38.130
Speaker 23 (Community Hall): those sections.
281206:42:38.875 --> 06:42:40.375Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Mayor? Excuse me.
2813
06:42:40.375 --> 06:42:45.424
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): No, silence. Silence. You're disturbing the meeting?
281406:42:50.950 --> 06:42:53.880Pam Lee, Item #3: Okay, so, I will continue.
281506:42:54.070 --> 06:43:06.990Pam Lee, Item #3: And based on those fire regulations, as adopted under the city's Code, as codified under Chapter 7 of the California 7A of the California Building Code.
2816
06:43:07.680 --> 06:43:12.609
Pam Lee, Item #3: The applicant has taken measures to mitigate for the fire hazards.
281706:43:12.650 --> 06:43:29.869Pam Lee, Item #3: In accordance with those regulations. And specifically with the 30-foot setback, they've taken steps to either, implement non-combustible block walls or fences, or non-combustible materials extending 5 feet horizontally.
2818
06:43:29.870 --> 06:43:44.900Pam Lee, Item #3: or hardscape landscaping, or a reduction of exposed windows, or more protective measures that are codified under the code. And those are a list of options, and I know that we talked about
281906:43:44.900 --> 06:44:01.450Pam Lee, Item #3: whether it's, you know, based on practical reasons that they're allowed to do this. I
believe that the record is clear that the practical reasons would include certain site constraints that the fire
chief had already discussed.
282006:44:03.390 --> 06:44:10.730Pam Lee, Item #3: So, those are the fire hazard mitigation measures, that are talked about, that are
282106:44:10.900 --> 06:44:19.439
Pam Lee, Item #3: specifically referenced under the Public Resources Code and AB130, That are currently…
282206:44:19.900 --> 06:44:22.300Pam Lee, Item #3: Implemented as part of the application.
282306:44:22.420 --> 06:44:31.430Pam Lee, Item #3: there's no… mitigation measures under CEQA that are separately codified other than
what's already listed.
282406:44:34.590 --> 06:44:38.679Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. Next, we have Councilmember Fruen, Councilmember Wong, and then the Vice Mayor.
282506:44:38.685 --> 06:44:40.804
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I'm out of queue. I'm taking myself out.
282606:44:40.805 --> 06:44:41.644Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Okay.
2827
06:44:41.650 --> 06:44:42.310Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Councilmember for.
2828
06:44:42.310 --> 06:44:55.580
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Yeah, just a quick comment to remind everyone that independently, a denial of
a CEQA exemption for which a project is eligible is itself
282906:44:55.950 --> 06:45:12.460Speaker 8 (Community Hall): a violation of the HAA, which triggers all of the consequences I described before on its own. Doesn't matter, it doesn't get you… even if it gets you an EIR, it doesn't solve the fact that we still get sued, we still lose a ton of money, and we don't solve anything that anyone's concerned about.
2830
06:45:12.630 --> 06:45:16.059Speaker 8 (Community Hall): It's the most impractical solution that I could imagine.
283106:45:17.020 --> 06:45:20.720Speaker 8 (Community Hall): In addition, the clear advice from the city
2832
06:45:20.840 --> 06:45:36.279
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): both our planning staff, the fire department, and the city attorney, is that, yes, this does in fact meet the standard for AB130, so I don't know how a council member with no legal training is going to speak against the city attorney's own view.
283306:45:40.160 --> 06:45:42.040Speaker 35 (Community Hall): Vice Mayor? Okay.
2834
06:45:43.030 --> 06:45:55.470Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So the city attorney and attorney Lee has not still… still has not provided any city-adopted mitigation measures that… for this site.
283506:45:56.370 --> 06:45:59.469Speaker 4 (Community Hall): To address these three items.
2836
06:45:59.590 --> 06:46:04.159Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Including, but not limited to, which means we could…
283706:46:04.370 --> 06:46:10.520Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Adopt mitigation measures for evacuation study on evacuation route.
2838
06:46:10.790 --> 06:46:12.779
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And… but we haven't done that.
283906:46:13.470 --> 06:46:29.199
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And, but I'd like to, point out for Councilmember Wong, Section 4291, which I
think addressed defensible space, vegetation, and, post-development maintenance.
284006:46:29.910 --> 06:46:46.539Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That's… that applies to state responsibility area, SRA. However, you see here,
it also says Section 51182, so that is a comparable section for local responsibility area.
284106:46:46.540 --> 06:46:54.380Speaker 4 (Community Hall): that address those three issues. So, whether it's state responsibility or local, both need to
284206:46:54.380 --> 06:47:06.229
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): have adopted mitigation measures for all this, but all we have from November
2025 are building code that satisfies Chapter 7A.
284306:47:06.580 --> 06:47:10.180Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We don't have… we didn't adopt anything.
284406:47:10.390 --> 06:47:23.989
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Force… Item 1 for Section 511A2, and we didn't adopt anything for Section 2
for Section 4290. And…
284506:47:24.380 --> 06:47:34.010Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We could adopt That… something that followed this, and going… and further… going beyond that.
2846
06:47:34.130 --> 06:47:53.979
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): for… to exempt CEQA for very high fire severity zone. For example, we can say
that the sensor… the setback should be no less than 20 feet, for example. That could be an objective
standard that we adopt, but we never
284706:47:54.120 --> 06:48:00.600Speaker 4 (Community Hall): had that discussion at all, so far. So… That is the reason.
2848
06:48:01.530 --> 06:48:09.539
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Cupertino as a city don't have any sites that have adopted fire hazardous
mitigation measures.
284906:48:09.820 --> 06:48:12.499Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That address all three.
2850
06:48:12.970 --> 06:48:16.570
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): of the items listed. If the attorney
285106:48:16.880 --> 06:48:21.950
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yeah, so I'm not convinced by the attorney's argument.
2852
06:48:23.020 --> 06:48:32.110
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Just clarification through the Mayor. Vice Mayor, you're saying we're not following the law because we have not adopted Section 1, Section 2, but we've only done Section 3, is that your argument?
285306:48:32.520 --> 06:48:33.270
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Yeah.
2854
06:48:33.430 --> 06:48:34.530Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Okay, just wanted to be clear.
285506:48:34.530 --> 06:48:35.020Speaker 35 (Community Hall): May I.
2856
06:48:35.025 --> 06:48:35.805
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): address that?
285706:48:35.965 --> 06:48:52.975Speaker 2 (Community Hall): The odd language where it says the site adopted these measures, I think it's suggesting that it doesn't have to be the city who adopts the measures, but that a body that has the
authority to adopt the measures has adopted them, and they apply to this site.
2858
06:48:53.395 --> 06:48:59.305Speaker 2 (Community Hall): That is my understanding, and so that's why I, posit that
285906:48:59.915 --> 06:49:04.495Speaker 2 (Community Hall): these factors have been satisfied, and the exemption applies. But through the
mayor's.
2860
06:49:04.495 --> 06:49:14.975Speaker 5 (Community Hall): It's through the mayor of the city attorney, that means these have already been adopted, not about to be adopted, not planning to be adopted. They've already been adopted, is how that language reads to me. Correct.
2861
06:49:14.980 --> 06:49:19.499
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That… where did… when did we adopt any major for item 1 and 2?
286206:49:19.640 --> 06:49:20.170Speaker 39 (Community Hall): I.
286306:49:20.170 --> 06:49:22.700
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I believe the state adopted those.
2864
06:49:22.700 --> 06:49:23.170Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Cheerable.
2865
06:49:23.170 --> 06:49:28.509
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): We didn't. And I don't believe that the statute requires that the city adopt
them.
286606:49:28.515 --> 06:49:30.415Speaker 4 (Community Hall): have adopted.
2867
06:49:30.545 --> 06:49:31.115
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Correct.
286806:49:31.420 --> 06:49:36.510Speaker 2 (Community Hall): No, it's that, yeah, that sites have adopted, which is odd language.
286906:49:37.210 --> 06:49:44.260
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And then the document prepared by David J. Powers says, It.
2870
06:49:45.370 --> 06:49:46.360Speaker 4 (Community Hall): adopts.
287106:49:46.860 --> 06:50:00.680Speaker 4 (Community Hall): present tense, no. And then didn't say adopt anything, and then just say, okay,
here are a list of majors, that's… actually, it's a list for… to mitigate a 30-foot reduction, setback reduction.
2872
06:50:00.800 --> 06:50:05.829Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So it's… there… there is very inconsistent on record.
287306:50:06.000 --> 06:50:07.759Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That's in front of us.
2874
06:50:09.880 --> 06:50:10.780
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yeah.
287506:50:12.220 --> 06:50:24.749Pam Lee, Item #3: I will add that I'm not sure there is a way for a site to adopt a fire hazard mitigation measure other than to include a fire hazard mitigation measure as part of its
2876
06:50:25.270 --> 06:50:34.879
Pam Lee, Item #3: application and its plan that's submitted to the city for review and approval. That is the way a site adopts
2877
06:50:35.060 --> 06:50:36.909
Pam Lee, Item #3: measures to make…
287806:50:36.910 --> 06:50:37.540Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Exactly.
2879
06:50:37.540 --> 06:50:38.550Pam Lee, Item #3: hazard.
288006:50:38.550 --> 06:50:40.200Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The city has to adopt it.
2881
06:50:40.200 --> 06:50:40.850
Pam Lee, Item #3: No, no, no.
288206:50:40.850 --> 06:50:44.909Speaker 4 (Community Hall): They can propose, they can propose. The city can approve.
2883
06:50:45.350 --> 06:50:48.250
Pam Lee, Item #3: The city has already adopted
288406:50:48.290 --> 06:50:59.769Pam Lee, Item #3: Plans that allow for a laundry list of fire mitigation measures, and that was through the building code, and the fire code, and the applicable fire-safe regulations.
2885
06:50:59.780 --> 06:51:17.370
Pam Lee, Item #3: And it's up to the applicant to determine from that laundry list of potential fire hazard
mitigation measures which ones would be most applicable to their property. And that is what they've done here.
288606:51:18.730 --> 06:51:32.230Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The city didn't… I think the November adoption of the building code is relevant to Chapter 7A. I looked at the ordinance we adopted in November 2025.
2887
06:51:32.430 --> 06:51:44.279Speaker 4 (Community Hall): It did not mention 30-foot setback, it did not mention defensible space, so we have not adopted anything for item 1 or not Item 2.
288806:51:46.190 --> 06:52:04.369Pam Lee, Item #3: Yes, those… these specific regulations are actually codified in the fire code, as well as the
building code. 4291 talks about those that are in the state responsibility area. 4290 talks about those that,
have a certain area, maybe the local responsibility area.
288906:52:04.370 --> 06:52:23.549Pam Lee, Item #3: and how they're supposed to maintain defensible space, the regulations talk about
exactly what types of defensible space and the mitigation measures that are required, because if you look
under subsections B, C, D, under both of those sections, it talks about the state and the state fire,
289006:52:23.550 --> 06:52:34.800Pam Lee, Item #3: Commission adopting codes, that Specify how these mitigation measures, or how the fuel
modification, can be accomplished.
289106:52:35.430 --> 06:52:44.180Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yeah, but if it's only sufficient… if it's sufficient to… for the state, just the state to adopt this standard, then…
289206:52:44.630 --> 06:52:48.580
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The legislator could just wipe out this whole section.
289306:52:48.770 --> 06:52:56.109Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Because they… every site in California have adopted the Fire Hazardous Mitigation measure.
289406:52:56.340 --> 06:52:58.999
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Why even include this whole section?
289506:52:59.300 --> 06:53:07.450Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So that cannot be the interpretation. That cannot be the legislative intent of the legislator.
289606:53:07.780 --> 06:53:18.399
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): if, as long as the state adopts the mitigation measures, a site can exempt from
CCRA. I don't think that's the legislative intent.
289706:53:21.310 --> 06:53:29.659Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The legislator wanted to on exemptive high-fire severity zone.
289806:53:29.660 --> 06:53:30.090
Speaker 36 (Community Hall): That's.
289906:53:30.995 --> 06:53:33.085Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Oh my god.
290006:53:34.100 --> 06:53:39.450Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And we just said that there is no active fault line in here.
2901
06:53:40.410 --> 06:53:42.350Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Earthquake detected.
2902
06:53:42.350 --> 06:53:43.030
Speaker 35 (Community Hall): Yeah.
290306:53:43.030 --> 06:53:45.479Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We need to evacuate.
2904
06:53:45.485 --> 06:53:48.415Speaker 6 (Community Hall): The emergency alert on my phone.
290506:53:48.420 --> 06:53:49.759Speaker 35 (Community Hall): Do I have to?
2906
06:53:49.765 --> 06:53:50.505
Speaker 31 (Community Hall): Drop cover.
290706:53:50.510 --> 06:53:52.930Speaker 24 (Community Hall): Don't run outside in an earthquake.
2908
06:53:52.930 --> 06:53:54.639
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): No. Drop, cover, pardon.
290906:53:54.640 --> 06:53:55.080Speaker 34 (Community Hall): You're under…
2910
06:53:55.080 --> 06:53:55.759
Speaker 10 (Community Hall): Through all the support.
291106:53:55.765 --> 06:53:58.365Speaker 40 (Community Hall): So we duck.
291206:53:58.370 --> 06:53:59.500
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): book. Okay.
2913
06:53:59.815 --> 06:54:10.004Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Would, the Fire Chief care to comment on your, best suggestions for what we, do at this time?
291406:54:10.005 --> 06:54:15.754
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): He's under the door. He's in the best spot. We're under trussing here, and
lights that are gonna hit us.
291506:54:16.055 --> 06:54:16.770Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So…
2916
06:54:18.360 --> 06:54:21.820Speaker 33 (Community Hall): 521.
2917
06:54:22.400 --> 06:54:24.189
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Where? USGS, anybody?
291806:54:25.980 --> 06:54:27.910Speaker 38 (Community Hall): A quarter mile of the side.
291906:54:29.575 --> 06:54:31.864
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Go for it.
2920
06:54:34.260 --> 06:54:46.799Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I'm going to continue. Okay, we have to get to Mary. Sorry, folks, we're gonna keep going. You're all good? Everybody good? Have some pizza? All right.
292106:54:46.990 --> 06:54:49.740
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Nothing else is open right now, just so you guys know. Okay.
2922
06:54:49.745 --> 06:54:50.425Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So…
292306:54:50.425 --> 06:54:51.854Speaker 24 (Community Hall): You're all good?
2924
06:54:51.855 --> 06:54:52.745
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And that would be…
292506:54:52.750 --> 06:55:04.600Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, okay, so, with that line of questioning, I do… do… is, Attorney Lee still on?
2926
06:55:05.700 --> 06:55:06.890
Pam Lee, Item #3: I'm still here.
292706:55:07.110 --> 06:55:09.730Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so we had an earthquake.
2928
06:55:09.840 --> 06:55:29.089
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I am kind of wondering about, when we're looking at, like, AB130 and AB172
and density bonus law, Housing Accountability Act, fines and penalties, is this… in your estimation, is this really a discretionary decision still for us? Because I feel,
2929
06:55:29.190 --> 06:55:31.560
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): somewhat… Cornered.
293006:55:33.330 --> 06:55:46.859Pam Lee, Item #3: You are required to look at the project and see if it meets all of the quantifiable and
objective standards with respect to the project.
293106:55:47.640 --> 06:56:01.539Pam Lee, Item #3: And so, in that sense, your discretion is very limited to, those standards. Going beyond that, would be outside of,
293206:56:02.090 --> 06:56:13.109
Pam Lee, Item #3: what's authorized under the state law according to the state legislature. I'm not making
an opinion on whether that is correct or not, but that is what the law says.
293306:56:13.670 --> 06:56:36.970Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you, and I feel like this is kind of a culmination of when I first started on the Planning Commission, and we had the first density bonus law project, and we were handed a memo from the applicant's attorney. That was in 2019, and this just feels like it's continued on in that same vein.
2934
06:56:36.990 --> 06:56:45.279
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And so it's, for the planners, I… I don't think that this is a grant fund for…
293506:56:45.280 --> 06:56:59.509Speaker 1 (Community Hall): for you, and for… for the… the councils, all of the councils across the state. This is, a huge, a huge issue. It's created a lot of work for attorneys in land use,
2936
06:56:59.720 --> 06:57:09.100
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And, and for, consultants working on the housing element, but, for… for the, the council's,
293706:57:09.160 --> 06:57:30.019Speaker 1 (Community Hall): What we're seeing is that our state legislatures are passing laws that they don't
need to sit in a council meeting and listen to upset residents. They're off in Sacramento and don't have to
feel the consequences of this. We do. And it's been, you know, a pretty painful
293806:57:30.020 --> 06:57:39.759Speaker 1 (Community Hall): 7 years of this. Now, with regards to not having a city, conducted project-level evacuation plan.
2939
06:57:39.760 --> 06:57:43.260
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): study, I should say, for this project, I… I…
294006:57:44.170 --> 06:57:48.710Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Excuse me, would like to see it, but without the objective standards.
294106:57:49.560 --> 06:57:52.710Speaker 1 (Community Hall): for what the results would be, I…
2942
06:57:53.000 --> 06:58:02.839
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I don't know what the merits of having such a study would provide us with. Or,
you know, if we were to enact some
294306:58:02.900 --> 06:58:21.669Speaker 1 (Community Hall): kind of standard for it. I don't know who we would be able to model it after. You know, what matters? 2 minutes, 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 30? You know, what… how does that work? But, while we do have the fire chief here, and this is…
2944
06:58:21.680 --> 06:58:32.879Speaker 1 (Community Hall): something that we're discussing, please log into or sign up for Genesis and for SCC alerts, because Genesis will, for evacuations, help
294506:58:32.950 --> 06:58:57.100Speaker 1 (Community Hall): bring you out, that you'll be given directions on where to go to evacuate from
your area, and that will make the difference, because if we only have, like, 14, 15% of our city signed up for
it, and you need to evacuate, you're going to want to have directions. Otherwise, you are going to force your
own bottleneck if everybody chooses the same route in a neighborhood.
294606:58:57.620 --> 06:59:06.400Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So I don't see any further requests to speak. I've got one more, Council, Vice Mayor, and please make it brief.
2947
06:59:06.405 --> 06:59:07.145
Speaker 24 (Community Hall): Up and.
294806:59:07.150 --> 06:59:13.379Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I hope to, amend the motion a little bit so that way it's more defensible.
2949
06:59:13.810 --> 06:59:21.029
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So the motion was to find the project exempt… not exempt from CEQA.
295006:59:21.380 --> 06:59:33.790Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And I'd like to add to that, and direct staff to… come… to… to examine.
295106:59:34.620 --> 06:59:39.499
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): potential… Fire hazard mitigation measures to adopt.
295206:59:39.750 --> 06:59:47.879Speaker 4 (Community Hall): for… under item 1, section 4291, or Section 51182.
2953
06:59:48.240 --> 06:59:52.029Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And item 2, section 4290.
2954
06:59:52.210 --> 06:59:54.049
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): For the setback.
295506:59:54.420 --> 07:00:03.929Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And I understand we already have building code for that addressed item 3, but I don't think we have one or two. So direct staff to do that, and also…
2956
07:00:04.390 --> 07:00:12.210
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): on… and also two… consider…
295707:00:14.920 --> 07:00:22.930Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Project with smaller units, so that we have starter homes to meet the housing element goals.
2958
07:00:25.490 --> 07:00:27.320
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): So, to clarify, what duration do you.
295907:00:27.320 --> 07:00:30.309Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Do you want staff to come back with that Fortune.
296007:00:30.315 --> 07:00:31.854
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): 90 and 4291.
2961
07:00:31.860 --> 07:00:32.570Speaker 5 (Community Hall): request.
296207:00:32.885 --> 07:00:35.105Speaker 40 (Community Hall): So that they have a policy in place.
2963
07:00:37.705 --> 07:00:39.045
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): We…
296407:00:39.200 --> 07:00:40.529Speaker 5 (Community Hall): You don't want to leave that open-ended.
2965
07:00:40.535 --> 07:00:41.295
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Yeah, okay.
296607:00:41.295 --> 07:00:43.164Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Are you leaving that open-ended?
296707:00:43.170 --> 07:00:44.580Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Oh, okay.
2968
07:00:45.310 --> 07:00:47.540
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Because we don't have to adopt it.
296907:00:48.410 --> 07:00:58.519Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Mayor, I think that, for that motion, you should have also include a finding that the lack of an evacuation plan today is a,
2970
07:00:58.710 --> 07:01:01.140
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): A potential health and safety risk? Yeah.
297107:01:01.145 --> 07:01:01.645Speaker 39 (Community Hall): And then…
2972
07:01:02.405 --> 07:01:09.655
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, the lack of evacuation plan and study is health and safety risk, so that
then…
297307:01:09.845 --> 07:01:15.255Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So we also, in… when we consider adopting a…
2974
07:01:15.485 --> 07:01:24.285
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): When we can… for potential fire hazard mitigation measures, we should also
consider, evacuation routes and standards.
297507:01:24.285 --> 07:01:24.895Speaker 31 (Community Hall): shot.
2976
07:01:25.665 --> 07:01:27.165
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): I would support that.
297707:01:27.165 --> 07:01:27.924Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Because that would force.
297807:01:27.925 --> 07:01:28.665
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): us to put it.
2979
07:01:28.670 --> 07:01:31.659Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Into the administrative record that we are for.
2980
07:01:31.665 --> 07:01:33.165
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): affordable housing. We are.
298107:01:33.165 --> 07:01:40.075Speaker 5 (Community Hall): and more housing production. We're for starter homes, but we also want to
make sure we have an evacuation route and we are for fire safety.
298207:01:40.075 --> 07:01:40.735Speaker 40 (Community Hall): What you're saying?
298307:01:40.740 --> 07:01:41.370Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah.
2984
07:01:41.555 --> 07:01:50.325Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And then, also that… on… when we consider this mitigation major, I would like to have objective standards on
298507:01:50.495 --> 07:01:54.334Speaker 4 (Community Hall): If we reduce 30 foot to 20 foot, what…
2986
07:01:54.455 --> 07:02:01.985Speaker 4 (Community Hall): majors are sufficient. There should be more clear standard, not just whatever you propose, I'll
298707:02:02.195 --> 07:02:08.705Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I'll… I'll check from my experience. It'd be not very…
2988
07:02:09.085 --> 07:02:24.295Speaker 4 (Community Hall): clear. I think we want more clear standards for the applicant also, if they want to… they have to reduce. But then also the justification, you have to provide real justification, right? Those can be considered in our
298907:02:24.405 --> 07:02:26.405
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Fire hazardous mitigation matrix.
299007:02:27.175 --> 07:02:29.405Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Can we simplify the motion a little bit?
299107:02:29.405 --> 07:02:33.084Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Those… you don't need to include our comments, those, yeah.
2992
07:02:34.230 --> 07:02:38.890Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Okay, I'll accept your friendly amendment for the purpose of moving things along. Yeah, okay.
2993
07:02:39.940 --> 07:02:42.569Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Can I make a quick comment?
2994
07:02:42.970 --> 07:02:54.739
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): By saying… by including all the conditions that you, listed, Vice Mayor, we are
basically saying, we're not approving this project, which… No, we are not.
299507:02:54.740 --> 07:02:55.450Speaker 4 (Community Hall): By saying we're.
2996
07:02:55.455 --> 07:02:58.455
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Okay, then we are approving the project?
299707:02:58.455 --> 07:03:09.134Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We are finding the project not exempt from CEQA, and we would like to encourage a project that complies with
2998
07:03:09.555 --> 07:03:17.184
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The… that would provide more… That follow… follow the law for defensible…
299907:03:17.185 --> 07:03:22.054Speaker 6 (Community Hall): I agree, I understand all that, but we, we have,
300007:03:22.185 --> 07:03:36.315
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): We need to act today, and what we need to do is approve this project, or deny
the project. Isn't it as simple as that, Madam Attorney? Yes.
300107:03:36.315 --> 07:03:38.725Speaker 2 (Community Hall): It is as simple as that.
300207:03:38.865 --> 07:03:43.905
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): The housing… the deadline is now, and so either you
3003
07:03:44.165 --> 07:03:48.295Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Approve the project, or you deny the project,
300407:03:48.455 --> 07:03:53.865Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And by, determining that it… Is…
3005
07:03:54.535 --> 07:04:01.865
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): not exempt from CEQA, that CEQA applies, you are basically denying the project.
3006
07:04:05.850 --> 07:04:08.430
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): It's not necessarily true.
300707:04:08.435 --> 07:04:09.194Speaker 39 (Community Hall): When we just pause.
3008
07:04:09.195 --> 07:04:12.934Speaker 4 (Community Hall): spawning it until we have SQL.
300907:04:12.935 --> 07:04:15.325Speaker 40 (Community Hall): We're asking that it meets SQL.
3010
07:04:15.325 --> 07:04:20.844
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): applicant has the right to have a project approval in this time frame.
301107:04:20.965 --> 07:04:25.485Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And so, if we don't provide the project approval in this timeframe, then
3012
07:04:25.745 --> 07:04:31.694
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): It will be up to them to take the next action, which is to enforce their right to
have a project approval.
301307:04:31.695 --> 07:04:35.265Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But are we saying they have a right to just an exemption without meeting the requirement?
3014
07:04:36.995 --> 07:04:40.105
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): That's basically what we're saying right now, we're just saying…
301507:04:40.365 --> 07:04:41.175Speaker 40 (Community Hall): You don't meet all.
3016
07:04:41.175 --> 07:04:44.665
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): requirements will just make you exempt. I mean, that's kind of what we're
saying.
301707:04:44.805 --> 07:04:45.605Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I think what.
3018
07:04:45.605 --> 07:04:47.065
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): The Vice Mayor's saying this, are we.
301907:04:47.065 --> 07:04:51.385Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Following the law, and… You know, it's up to interpretation, is what we're
hearing right now.
3020
07:04:54.380 --> 07:05:08.509
Pam Lee, Item #3: I will add that there is a shot clock provision under the Subdivision Map Act, and there is a deadline under housing laws that require the city to make a determination of approval or
302107:05:08.900 --> 07:05:10.159Pam Lee, Item #3: not approval.
3022
07:05:10.960 --> 07:05:28.659
Pam Lee, Item #3: Determining that the project is not exempt from CEQA and requiring additional environmental review would require the project applicant to go beyond the shot clock and the deadline that is authorized and required under housing law and the Subdivision Map Act.
302307:05:28.780 --> 07:05:38.209
Pam Lee, Item #3: That being the case, if it's not actually approved, it's deemed disapproved within that
time frame, which would then set the motion for
302407:05:38.700 --> 07:05:53.430Pam Lee, Item #3: various potential legal actions. Just even, without the shot clocks and the timeframes, the applicant would be able to do a legal challenge on the decision alone that the project isn't applicable under AB130.
3025
07:05:55.440 --> 07:05:56.610
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Councilmember Schroin?
302607:05:57.550 --> 07:06:01.609Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Yes, I'll just hasten to… Attorney Lee already
3027
07:06:02.010 --> 07:06:16.970
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): you know, referred to the provision of the Housing Accountability Act that I
wanted to raise again, but I will hasten to add once more that the advice from our own city attorney, from
our own planning staff, and from the fire department is that it does meet the standard.
302807:06:17.910 --> 07:06:25.959Speaker 8 (Community Hall): this is not just a matter of, oh, one person's opinion is this, and another person's opinion is that. There are professional opinions who
3029
07:06:26.090 --> 07:06:35.270
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): you know, for people who have gone through an awful lot of training in order to be able to do this work, and I don't think that a non-attorney opinion on a legal matter
303007:06:35.630 --> 07:06:37.700Speaker 8 (Community Hall): For someone with no legal training at all.
3031
07:06:37.820 --> 07:06:40.269
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Is better than that of multiple attorneys.
303207:06:42.700 --> 07:06:44.450Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Pardon?
3033
07:06:45.260 --> 07:06:51.649Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Madam City Clerk, I believe we've, finished our comments. Will you please.
303407:06:52.420 --> 07:06:55.149Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Call the question.
3035
07:06:55.155 --> 07:06:56.065
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): is the motion?
303607:06:59.050 --> 07:07:06.130Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Would you like to restate the… I was going to ask Vice Mayor to restate her friendly amendment.
3037
07:07:06.135 --> 07:07:09.814
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Should, show maybe your note for the motion?
303807:07:09.940 --> 07:07:16.280Speaker 17 (Community Hall): So I took from your… from the transcript your friendly amendment. Again, this is word for word.
3039
07:07:16.285 --> 07:07:17.954
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Maybe that'll be easier.
304007:07:34.820 --> 07:07:36.510Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Hmm. Okay.
3041
07:07:40.930 --> 07:07:47.010
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): If this is… sorry, this is my makeshift draft minutes. So…
304207:07:47.150 --> 07:07:59.689Speaker 17 (Community Hall): CHO moved and Wong seconded to find the project is not exempt from CEQA per AB 130. From the amendment, CHO made a friendly amendment to add potential fire hazard mitigation measures to adopt
3043
07:08:00.350 --> 07:08:10.689
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): For under item 1, section 4291, or Section 51182, and the Item 2, Section 4290 for the setback.
3044
07:08:10.800 --> 07:08:22.250
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): And you understand… these are your words, Vice Mayor, we already have building code for that address, item 3, but I don't think we have 1 or 2, so the…
3045
07:08:22.690 --> 07:08:33.880
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): rep staff to do that, and also to consider a project with smaller units so that
we have starter homes to meet the housing element goals. Wong accepted the friendly amendment, so that
was.
304607:08:34.465 --> 07:08:35.365Speaker 36 (Community Hall): Your work.
3047
07:08:35.365 --> 07:08:36.865
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Let me write it more clearly.
304807:08:36.865 --> 07:08:38.365Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Thank you.
3049
07:08:38.365 --> 07:08:46.995
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I would like to add, that was a friendly amendment to, a motion that also
included findings on health and safety,
305007:08:47.485 --> 07:08:50.424Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Risk associated with having no evacuation plan.
3051
07:08:53.850 --> 07:08:56.290
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Could you restate that?
305207:08:56.295 --> 07:08:58.905Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Yeah, maybe F4… Let me just…
305307:08:58.910 --> 07:09:01.189
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): We're cleaning this up, yeah. I'd like to read the.
3054
07:09:01.190 --> 07:09:03.380Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Appropriate language into the record.
305507:09:04.770 --> 07:09:06.230Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Find it quickly.
3056
07:09:12.500 --> 07:09:20.079
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Pardon, just to clarify, the finding that the lack of evacuation plan, you mean at a project level?
3057
07:09:20.590 --> 07:09:22.259
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Site level, we'll use their words.
305807:09:22.530 --> 07:09:23.030Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Yes.
3059
07:09:23.925 --> 07:09:29.504Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Exactly. And so, it would basically be that there's no feasible, I'm sorry.
306007:09:30.895 --> 07:09:34.995Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Specific adverse impact on the health or safety.
3061
07:09:36.435 --> 07:09:38.125
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Of… of the community.
306207:09:39.055 --> 07:09:45.285Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Due to the lack of a specific evacuation plan.
3063
07:09:46.430 --> 07:09:48.729
Community Hall: Unless the project is disapproved.
306407:09:56.310 --> 07:09:59.580Speaker 1 (Community Hall): But this is a… this is a single,
3065
07:10:00.120 --> 07:10:08.020
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): This is a single, issue. So, it seems that that would… Allow it to…
306607:10:08.470 --> 07:10:14.400Speaker 1 (Community Hall): If this were true, it would allow it to use SB131 for a focused
306707:10:15.290 --> 07:10:19.260
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): EIR, or MND review. Focus CEQA review.
3068
07:10:19.545 --> 07:10:35.384Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Well, that's a good question. I might look to Attorney Lee to address that, but it… the statute does require that you make the specific findings of adverse impact on health and safety. Okay, so…
3069
07:10:35.555 --> 07:10:49.834
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): We… we're saying that there's a lack of an evacuation plan, but there is no
specific finding with regards to that, to be made, because we don't have any objective standards to… even if
we had that study
307007:10:49.995 --> 07:10:57.125
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): we… there's no objective standards that we have in place for it. Which…
3071
07:10:57.595 --> 07:10:59.904
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Yeah, so I've wondered about that.
307207:10:59.910 --> 07:11:02.180Speaker 2 (Community Hall): A little bit of a flawed,
3073
07:11:02.340 --> 07:11:14.709
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): a reason to disallow the project. Other things that I've heard are, we, believe
that the, fire mitigation
307407:11:14.940 --> 07:11:19.480Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Is not robust enough, and that's why we have a,
3075
07:11:19.560 --> 07:11:35.040
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): unavoidable risk of health and safety, or… I mean, you have to identify what's
lacking and, equate that to this unavoidable risk to health and safety, to,
307607:11:35.410 --> 07:11:39.280Speaker 2 (Community Hall): potentially survive what's required by the Housing Accountability Act.
3077
07:11:39.400 --> 07:11:40.230
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Right.
307807:11:40.560 --> 07:11:42.500Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Yep. Okay, thank you.
3079
07:11:44.510 --> 07:11:47.230
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): I just… oh, you stopped? Okay.
308007:11:47.230 --> 07:11:51.020Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I was just gonna make one final appeal to everybody here.
308107:11:51.180 --> 07:11:59.650
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I mean, we have a law that clearly states something. We have professional
opinion that says this might happen. We have residents that are at risk.
308207:11:59.780 --> 07:12:05.580Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I mean, that's not an easy discussion or decision for anybody here to make, just to summarize where we are.
3083
07:12:05.600 --> 07:12:20.440
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): If we say we deny the exemption to CEQA, at least we get the environmental
protections on the back end, we hope, so that, you know, if there's something wrong with LUS or something
wrong with the site, there's hazardous materials that's covered. Plus, the second piece is, you know, we at least
3084
07:12:20.440 --> 07:12:26.139
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): have to get the mitigation routes in place. So, those are two things that are
important to me, but…
308507:12:26.180 --> 07:12:28.160Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I'm not sure if you guys are on agreement.
3086
07:12:28.900 --> 07:12:39.070
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Pardon, well, Chapter 17, of the Municipal Code covers the, any environmental
issues, and we saw this with
308707:12:39.460 --> 07:12:43.539Speaker 1 (Community Hall): The United Furniture site, which still has, over…
3088
07:12:43.890 --> 07:12:57.059
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): something like 3,000 micrograms per kilogram of… PC. PC still there, still doing
cleanup, and even with Valco, Valco's got a VIM system going in for
308907:12:57.060 --> 07:13:08.660Speaker 1 (Community Hall): their first block, number 5, so they have to put a pipe network in to clean it up. Also, bypass CEQA. It's just continuing on that way.
3090
07:13:08.665 --> 07:13:16.185
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I have another idea. You could make the motion simpler with the idea that if it
passes, then the Council will then
309107:13:16.425 --> 07:13:20.495Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Make findings that support the passage.
3092
07:13:21.165 --> 07:13:22.534
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): In other words.
309307:13:22.665 --> 07:13:34.324Speaker 2 (Community Hall): You could just keep the motion as simple as, fine project not exempt from CEQA per AB130. That would be the first question that the Council could vote on, and then if the Council
3094
07:13:34.765 --> 07:13:42.995
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): votes in favor of that, then the next question would be, Council, what are the
findings that we're now voting on that support that?
309507:13:46.310 --> 07:13:48.240
Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Mayor.
3096
07:13:48.240 --> 07:13:55.960
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): My friendly amendment rates are up. Sir, Vice Mayor? Okay, so here is the friendly amendment to the motion.
309707:13:56.390 --> 07:14:03.699Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the original motion, that's more clean. Sorry, it keeps us… So here.
3098
07:14:07.550 --> 07:14:08.360
Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Hmm.
309907:14:10.570 --> 07:14:19.269Speaker 4 (Community Hall): This… okay. Direct staff to… Direct staff to bring back proposed fire hazardous…
3100
07:14:20.010 --> 07:14:33.630
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): fire hazard mitigation measures to include, but not limited to, Section 4291 or Section 51182, Section 4290, and evacuation Route and Plan.
310107:14:33.760 --> 07:14:42.859Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Find significant health and safety issues due to lack of evacuation plan and
unjustified reduction of 30-foot setback.
3102
07:14:43.070 --> 07:14:44.480Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Is that good?
310307:14:44.620 --> 07:14:57.199Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And encourage smaller starter homes at this site for young families to meet the
housing element goals, to affirmatively furthering fair housing while meeting fair safety standards.
3104
07:14:57.840 --> 07:14:58.670Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yep.
310507:14:59.340 --> 07:15:02.669Speaker 1 (Community Hall): What is… what is that amending, exactly?
3106
07:15:02.675 --> 07:15:05.424
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Finding the primary phone motion.
310707:15:05.875 --> 07:15:15.005Speaker 4 (Community Hall): to find the project is not exempt from CEQA Pro AB183. Even the… AB1A.
3108
07:15:15.010 --> 07:15:21.370
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): though our attorneys have said that it meets the qualifications for AB130.
Correct.
310907:15:22.190 --> 07:15:23.040Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Okay.
3110
07:15:23.040 --> 07:15:29.820Pam Lee, Item #3: recommendation is to separate out those, amendments. I think they're not necessarily related to the
311107:15:29.930 --> 07:15:33.930Pam Lee, Item #3: Finding that the project is not exempt under AB130.
3112
07:15:35.170 --> 07:15:41.100Pam Lee, Item #3: maybe, the reason that you're saying that the project
311307:15:41.300 --> 07:15:44.919Pam Lee, Item #3: is not exempt under AB130 is that the
3114
07:15:45.210 --> 07:15:54.540
Pam Lee, Item #3: site failed to adopt specific fire hazard mitigation measures in accordance with the requirements under,
311507:15:55.430 --> 07:15:58.010Pam Lee, Item #3: Public Resources Code Section 210.
3116
07:15:58.530 --> 07:16:03.080
Pam Lee, Item #3: 80.66 and Government Code Section 6531.
311707:16:03.920 --> 07:16:06.240Pam Lee, Item #3: 65913.4.
3118
07:16:09.520 --> 07:16:13.850
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yeah, I think the first item…
311907:16:14.010 --> 07:16:21.119Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I added for adoption, so the staff to bring back proposed mitigation measures for adoption.
3120
07:16:21.300 --> 07:16:22.640
Pam Lee, Item #3: Right, that's part of your.
312107:16:22.640 --> 07:16:27.009Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The question is, we don't have adopted mitigation measures.
312207:16:27.640 --> 07:16:32.040Speaker 6 (Community Hall): A quick question, could this be a post-entitlement issue?
3123
07:16:33.470 --> 07:16:37.640
Pam Lee, Item #3: If you're looking to find that your project is not exempt under CQB.
312407:16:37.640 --> 07:16:38.280Speaker 4 (Community Hall): What's…
3125
07:16:38.830 --> 07:16:42.240
Pam Lee, Item #3: That is not a post-entitlement issue, that is a project.
312607:16:42.420 --> 07:16:45.449Pam Lee, Item #3: level, a requirement.
312707:16:46.800 --> 07:16:52.099
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Sorry, we were having a discussion before. Are you saying it is not a post-
entirement issue, Pam?
312807:16:53.820 --> 07:16:58.869Pam Lee, Item #3: You're talking about, right now, That the project is not exempt.
312907:16:58.890 --> 07:17:17.829
Pam Lee, Item #3: Under CEQA, which means that there needs to be an initial study, an environmental
review, determine whether any other exemption exists, and as a result, the project cannot move forward
until that environmental review occurs and is completed.
313007:17:17.950 --> 07:17:23.640Pam Lee, Item #3: As a result, you will not meet the deadline, for April 4th for this.
3131
07:17:24.300 --> 07:17:29.140
Pam Lee, Item #3: that's the only thing that's on the floor right now. Everything else in those bullet points
313207:17:30.120 --> 07:17:32.429Pam Lee, Item #3: Is secondary to this finding.
313307:17:33.300 --> 07:17:44.790
Pam Lee, Item #3: Or this motion. Directing staff to bring back an item, that can be done by consensus.
That doesn't necessarily need to be part of this motion. This motion is specific to the project.
313407:17:46.420 --> 07:17:58.300Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yes, but I am including them as part of the motion, so that the motion is more defensible, because the item 1 specifically points out
313507:17:59.100 --> 07:18:12.309Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We don't have adopted the fire hazardous mitigation measures, so we are directing staff to bring that back, and that should include the evacuation route and plan, and we haven't
3136
07:18:13.070 --> 07:18:14.670
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Done that.
313707:18:16.000 --> 07:18:19.100Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Can we require that before the building permit is granted?
3138
07:18:19.280 --> 07:18:20.140
Pam Lee, Item #3: No.
313907:18:21.710 --> 07:18:22.210Speaker 39 (Community Hall): And also…
3140
07:18:22.210 --> 07:18:23.280
Pam Lee, Item #3: standards.
314107:18:23.280 --> 07:18:23.840Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Right.
314207:18:23.840 --> 07:18:27.120
Pam Lee, Item #3: Are measured from the time the application is deemed complete.
3143
07:18:27.270 --> 07:18:28.120Speaker 40 (Community Hall): We don't know.
314407:18:28.160 --> 07:18:32.209Pam Lee, Item #3: And so no matter what you do now, it's not going to apply to this project.
3145
07:18:33.830 --> 07:18:36.080
Pam Lee, Item #3: That's separate and apart from AB130.
314607:18:36.660 --> 07:18:43.500Pam Lee, Item #3: That is because they applied under a separate section of the housing law, under the Housing Accountability Act and SB330,
3147
07:18:44.140 --> 07:18:50.459
Pam Lee, Item #3: The application is deemed complete. All the standards that are applicable are as of the date the project is deemed.
3148
07:18:50.580 --> 07:18:51.500
Pam Lee, Item #3: Complete.
314907:18:51.960 --> 07:18:56.490Pam Lee, Item #3: or the project application is deemed complete. So, even if you do one now.
3150
07:18:57.180 --> 07:19:00.290Pam Lee, Item #3: It's going to apply to all future projects, but not this one.
315107:19:08.010 --> 07:19:19.479Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, I was saying that these three items, I think, are necessary, because item 2 point out that we have reduction of 30-foot setback based on
3152
07:19:19.620 --> 07:19:26.510Speaker 4 (Community Hall): On justification that does not comply with the law, so it's an unjustified reduction.
315307:19:26.610 --> 07:19:30.390Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And that creates fire as a safety issue.
3154
07:19:30.840 --> 07:19:35.590Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And, item 3 points out the density for this site.
315507:19:36.070 --> 07:19:41.300Speaker 4 (Community Hall): waste… That meeting the fire safety standards is possible.
3156
07:19:41.570 --> 07:19:50.289
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): As long as there are smaller units, and these are the kind of units that actually provide starter homes for young families.
315707:19:50.420 --> 07:19:52.660Speaker 4 (Community Hall): and better…
3158
07:19:53.090 --> 07:20:05.339
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): actually meet our housing element goal better, because it provides variety, the missing middle housing that we don't have in the dining room. So I thought.
315907:20:05.810 --> 07:20:11.340Speaker 4 (Community Hall): They, they, they, these three supports on the main motion.
3160
07:20:15.420 --> 07:20:19.720
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): If voting doesn't pass, then we can talk about the…
316107:20:19.725 --> 07:20:30.514
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): You know, if we're talking about encouraging smaller starter homes, that's…
that cannot be for this project. We're talking about another project. I… I cannot see, the value in,
316207:20:30.705 --> 07:20:36.615Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Listing number 3. It's… it's a whole new project you're talking about, Vice
Mayor.
316307:20:37.980 --> 07:20:44.769Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Well, if the project provides smaller 2-3 bedroom town halls… Yeah, but that's not what we have in front of us today.
316407:20:45.730 --> 07:20:46.730
Pam Lee, Item #3: That is correct. Correct.
316507:20:46.730 --> 07:20:47.890Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I…
316607:20:47.890 --> 07:20:52.539Speaker 4 (Community Hall): The justification for not meeting the 35th setback is…
3167
07:20:52.540 --> 07:21:00.629Pam Lee, Item #3: Project redesign is not justification for denying something under AV130 or, under the HHA… under HAA.
316807:21:01.640 --> 07:21:02.460Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you.
3169
07:21:04.730 --> 07:21:15.919Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I believe we've exhausted the deliberations on this motion. Madam City Clerk, will you please reset our vote panel and we can vote now?
317007:21:20.080 --> 07:21:21.290Speaker 40 (Community Hall): So what are we voting on again?
3171
07:21:24.255 --> 07:21:26.824Speaker 39 (Community Hall): No, it just… The motion…
317207:21:29.090 --> 07:21:36.740Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Let me share it… So, the main motion plus the friendly amendment.
3173
07:21:56.950 --> 07:21:58.340
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Wi-fi King?
317407:21:58.590 --> 07:22:00.779
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): I don't have a vote for…
3175
07:22:00.990 --> 07:22:03.529
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Councilmember Mohan, or Vice Mayor Joe?
317607:22:10.160 --> 07:22:15.100Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Okay, the motion fails with… Chao and Wong voting yes.
3177
07:22:17.440 --> 07:22:18.230
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Okay.
317807:22:42.330 --> 07:22:44.900Speaker 2 (Community Hall): There was a,
3179
07:22:45.020 --> 07:22:51.130
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): That was a substitute motion. There is another motion on the table prior to
that having to do with vesting tentative maps.
318007:22:52.000 --> 07:22:52.580Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Hmm.
3181
07:22:52.840 --> 07:22:57.340
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I didn't have a second. Very good, thank you.
318207:22:57.850 --> 07:23:00.080Speaker 40 (Community Hall): You want a second? I can offer seconds.
318307:23:01.060 --> 07:23:18.840
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so this was just to add the, extra information regarding the ownership of
the assessor's, parcel, assessor's parcels, per the supplemental, report provided by staff.
318407:23:20.310 --> 07:23:20.990Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay.
318507:23:21.580 --> 07:23:22.520
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): It's an easy one.
318607:23:22.650 --> 07:23:23.360Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Yeah.
318707:23:24.270 --> 07:23:25.100Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Okay.
3188
07:23:25.750 --> 07:23:35.040
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Should we just do a motion to approve, and then add all these… additional… Amendment?
3189
07:23:36.630 --> 07:23:42.470
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): probably need to pull up the agenda and look at the recommended action.
319007:23:42.970 --> 07:23:44.679Speaker 40 (Community Hall): And we haven't approved it yet, either.
319107:23:45.710 --> 07:23:47.450
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): To see how it's written up.
3192
07:23:52.820 --> 07:23:56.170Speaker 2 (Community Hall): It reads, find the project exempt from CEQA.
319307:23:57.100 --> 07:23:59.860Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Make the required findings of no net loss.
3194
07:24:00.300 --> 07:24:02.360
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And approve the following permits.
319507:24:02.930 --> 07:24:04.380Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Tentative final map.
3196
07:24:04.750 --> 07:24:06.790
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Architectural site approval.
319707:24:07.080 --> 07:24:08.539Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And tree removal permit.
3198
07:24:16.020 --> 07:24:18.090
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So we could parse out…
319907:24:19.210 --> 07:24:27.170Speaker 1 (Community Hall): the tentative final map, but in order to do that, we would still need to do the CEQA exemption,
3200
07:24:27.370 --> 07:24:43.470
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): and I don't see any particular added value in doing that, so I think it would
need to… you can… I… we can amend, we can approve the tentative final map with the amendment that
the, additional
320107:24:43.590 --> 07:24:49.790
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Ownership information is added per the supplemental reports, I think that's
clear enough.
320207:24:54.630 --> 07:24:55.340Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Hmm.
3203
07:24:57.020 --> 07:24:59.740Speaker 1 (Community Hall): But we would need a motion for this.
320407:25:03.030 --> 07:25:05.779Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Vice Mayor, your hand's raised.
3205
07:25:09.400 --> 07:25:14.560
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, are you… Do you want to parse out the different part of the motion?
320607:25:15.930 --> 07:25:27.230Speaker 1 (Community Hall): No, I don't… I don't see that it's… I don't think it's going to add anything, to separate the ASA from the tentative final map. So you want to do them.
3207
07:25:27.235 --> 07:25:28.465
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): altogether.
320807:25:28.810 --> 07:25:48.299Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I would… I would do it all together, with regards to the… the tentative final map set, I still don't like the, the roadway alignment that we have there. I don't know if there's… if I have any support from the Council to try to
3209
07:25:48.730 --> 07:25:52.049Speaker 1 (Community Hall): make it be some other way.
321007:25:52.870 --> 07:26:01.889Speaker 1 (Community Hall): you know, we could discuss that. The applicant is not interested in it, in making those changes, but I do think that it would be,
3211
07:26:02.420 --> 07:26:05.850Speaker 1 (Community Hall): A better layout to not have it the way it is designed.
321207:26:08.090 --> 07:26:14.580Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Okay, so… I'll make the motion, then… For the recommended option.
3213
07:26:15.640 --> 07:26:16.740
Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Mmm…
321407:26:17.760 --> 07:26:22.860
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): But I… Because I have a few other things I think we need to include.
3215
07:26:23.360 --> 07:26:24.320
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Sweet.
321607:26:24.920 --> 07:26:26.579Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Let's see…
3217
07:26:30.300 --> 07:26:37.749
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, here is the recommended action, and we are not including the trail access,
right?
321807:26:37.940 --> 07:26:44.470Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And then we want to remove the truck access restriction to the frontage of Linda Vista Road.
3219
07:26:44.770 --> 07:26:54.130
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): That they have requested, and we would like to add, Non-combustible fence, perimeter fence, right?
322007:26:55.100 --> 07:26:58.969Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Yes. That's, by the way, it's Condition 85.
3221
07:26:59.860 --> 07:27:00.930
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I believe.
322207:27:02.000 --> 07:27:06.610Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And then, add… Our soul.
3223
07:27:09.930 --> 07:27:10.770
Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Ship…
322407:27:11.610 --> 07:27:13.839Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Information to the…
3225
07:27:13.840 --> 07:27:15.720
Speaker 25 (Community Hall): Per the supplemental report.
322607:27:16.720 --> 07:27:20.169Speaker 1 (Community Hall): to the VTM for the supplemental report. VTM. Yeah.
322707:27:20.860 --> 07:27:21.760
Community Hall: bursts.
3228
07:27:24.750 --> 07:27:26.360Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Yeah? Yes.
3229
07:27:27.090 --> 07:27:30.549
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And then, add the environmental monitoring.
323007:27:31.130 --> 07:27:36.160Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Following the Merritt Avenue model. Correct. I screenshot here.
323107:27:36.165 --> 07:27:44.424
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And you have the deletions on there as well. That's good. There was
something about lead and arsenic, we just leave that part off, it just confuses things.
323207:27:44.430 --> 07:27:46.930Speaker 35 (Community Hall): So nothing on the bioretention, right?
323307:27:47.910 --> 07:27:51.239
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Well, the truck access is that.
3234
07:27:51.620 --> 07:27:56.720Speaker 1 (Community Hall): That's the article, that's… that's Condition 85 that was mentioned earlier.
323507:27:56.720 --> 07:27:58.199Speaker 39 (Community Hall): It's already in there?
3236
07:27:58.440 --> 07:28:04.600
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): No, no, you're correct to remove it. Remove, no. Yeah, remove Condition 85, I should say.
323707:28:05.130 --> 07:28:13.340Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Through the Mayor? Yes. Would you be willing to add the proposed conditions
that the applicant has put forward for the two-story option?
3238
07:28:14.760 --> 07:28:15.640Community Hall: Alright.
323907:28:17.370 --> 07:28:25.519Speaker 1 (Community Hall): it isn't perfect. I mean, they, basically made… they kind of stretched out their
units, so,
3240
07:28:26.560 --> 07:28:33.919Speaker 1 (Community Hall): while it is two-story, there's a little bit more wider, I can pull up the…
3241
07:28:34.110 --> 07:28:37.170
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): The plan, if you want to see that. Cuts and.
324207:28:37.175 --> 07:28:39.175Speaker 6 (Community Hall): average quote, the driver.
3243
07:28:39.820 --> 07:28:40.570Speaker 35 (Community Hall): Yeah.
324407:28:40.575 --> 07:28:44.685Speaker 1 (Community Hall): It's a little bit closer to… Sure.
3245
07:28:44.685 --> 07:28:51.175
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): I'll acknowledge that. I'll just say that I think that the neighbors would Appreciate this version more.
324607:28:51.355 --> 07:28:58.245Speaker 8 (Community Hall): than what is otherwise on the table. Okay. And to the extent that we can accommodate it, I think it would be good to do.
3247
07:29:00.010 --> 07:29:01.289Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I can support that.
324807:29:11.780 --> 07:29:14.020Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, where's the conditioning?
3249
07:29:15.220 --> 07:29:20.649
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): proposed by the applicant. Any modification? The two-story option.
325007:29:20.650 --> 07:29:29.700Speaker 1 (Community Hall): certified, correct. Subjected to the… CT attorney… Review.
3251
07:29:31.640 --> 07:29:37.420
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): husband revealed their condition for the two-story option.
325207:29:40.950 --> 07:29:42.609Speaker 2 (Community Hall): I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.
3253
07:29:45.625 --> 07:29:46.375
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Jarrett cut a deal.
325407:29:46.585 --> 07:29:49.455Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But they said they can't do the deal unless they do.
3255
07:29:49.455 --> 07:29:51.335Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Wonahoo. That's where you're at.
3256
07:29:51.700 --> 07:29:56.859
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): I think they want certainty, if there is any challenge to the project.
325707:29:56.860 --> 07:29:59.280Speaker 5 (Community Hall): Yeah, they wanted a German…
325807:29:59.280 --> 07:30:16.449
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): two-story option will be off. I see. So that verbiage, I think the CTA attorney
hasn't revealed that. Correct. So I thought the motion is, with condition proposed by the applicant, subject to
the City Attorney review. And if the… In case you find anything.
325907:30:16.450 --> 07:30:20.880Speaker 2 (Community Hall): And let's say if the city attorney did find something, then that would go away? Then the…
3260
07:30:20.885 --> 07:30:22.015
Speaker 41 (Community Hall): maybe, like.
326107:30:22.020 --> 07:30:24.180Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the mayor, authorized.
3262
07:30:24.185 --> 07:30:25.385
Speaker 41 (Community Hall): the mayor?
326307:30:28.460 --> 07:30:31.259Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Should it be City Attorney and Fire District?
326407:30:46.000 --> 07:30:46.839
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Like that.
3265
07:30:49.770 --> 07:30:52.639Speaker 1 (Community Hall): That looks fine. That looks fine.
326607:30:54.185 --> 07:30:57.225Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I have to… I do have the, there we go.
3267
07:31:01.260 --> 07:31:01.990
Community Hall: We'll see.
326807:31:05.160 --> 07:31:10.780
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Video, can we share the overhead for the mayor?
3269
07:31:12.710 --> 07:31:15.469
Speaker 19 (Community Hall): So these are the units.
327007:31:15.470 --> 07:31:18.820Speaker 41 (Community Hall): We can't see them. We can't see anything. Might be better.
3271
07:31:18.825 --> 07:31:22.265
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Video, should we move to the other document?
327207:31:32.080 --> 07:31:33.880Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Alright. Thank you, Mayor.
3273
07:31:34.210 --> 07:31:45.119
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so these are the four units on the south side, and you can see they, they
are closer here to, actually in this, this area.
327407:31:47.080 --> 07:31:53.840Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And they're a little bit closer to the street than the previous, the alignment.
3275
07:31:54.090 --> 07:31:55.870
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Is that clear?
327607:31:56.040 --> 07:32:01.170Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And I think we all have a copy of this up on the dais, but it'll help the…
327707:32:02.530 --> 07:32:04.949
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): People in the audience here to see it.
327807:32:05.190 --> 07:32:11.259Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And you can see up here as well, it's a little bit closer. Am I missing any other parts to that change? Do I got it?
327907:32:12.360 --> 07:32:14.410
Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Okay. Yes.
328007:32:15.090 --> 07:32:15.900Speaker 39 (Community Hall): Right.
328107:32:33.790 --> 07:32:35.489Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Do the motions complete.
3282
07:32:36.700 --> 07:32:37.640
Speaker 41 (Community Hall): Oh, holy.
328307:32:40.680 --> 07:32:44.700Speaker 41 (Community Hall): Anyone else? Can we look at it once?
3284
07:32:48.130 --> 07:32:53.490Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, it's recommended action with… 6 items.
328507:32:53.780 --> 07:32:59.130Speaker 6 (Community Hall): And we see it on the screen now, Vice Mayor. There it is.
3286
07:33:04.740 --> 07:33:06.590
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Can you zoom in a little bigger?
328707:33:14.750 --> 07:33:15.480Community Hall: Shit.
3288
07:33:28.690 --> 07:33:29.440
Community Hall: Okay.
328907:33:30.260 --> 07:33:37.470Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Do you have a second? Just to clarify, we're saying approve the project with these conditions? Approve the exemption.
3290
07:33:38.910 --> 07:33:40.750
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): From CEQA, and then these conditions.
329107:33:41.790 --> 07:33:44.439Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Yeah, approve the recommended action.
3292
07:33:44.750 --> 07:33:46.869
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, more second.
329307:33:53.380 --> 07:33:54.669Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Just call a question.
329407:33:55.390 --> 07:34:02.270
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I could call the question, however, there could be a challenge to calling the
question, and then you'd need a supermajority.
329507:34:02.315 --> 07:34:05.815Speaker 40 (Community Hall): I think people are too tired for that.
3296
07:34:06.840 --> 07:34:13.369Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Any other… You know, I, I, I have a… I'm not clear. What is it we're saying? We're saying,
3297
07:34:13.730 --> 07:34:20.850
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): But… not… let's not exempt from CEQA under these conditions, or…
329807:34:20.855 --> 07:34:23.235Speaker 4 (Community Hall): It's exempt from… Find the project.
3299
07:34:23.240 --> 07:34:26.090
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): Okay. It's the recommended action.
330007:34:26.095 --> 07:34:29.015Speaker 4 (Community Hall): the recommended action, except from CEQA.
330107:34:29.975 --> 07:34:38.785
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): But I think we need to modify the tentative map… I got it, thank you. With
some of these modifications, yeah.
330207:34:38.785 --> 07:34:42.464Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Very good. Are we ready to vote? Yeah. Okay.
330307:34:42.465 --> 07:34:45.414
Speaker 20 (Community Hall): Yes. Sorry, right here.
3304
07:34:45.415 --> 07:34:58.595Speaker 7 (Community Hall): I just wanted to verify, for the additional condition for the environmental remediation, are we referring the project over to DH regardless of whether or not an REC is found on site?
330507:34:58.625 --> 07:35:06.685
Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Or are we only referring it according to what standard practice is when
something is found on-site? Again, the language seems to indicate that we're just
330607:35:06.925 --> 07:35:08.245Speaker 7 (Community Hall): Sending it to them.
330707:35:08.675 --> 07:35:15.564
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): It should be the standard practice, if we want to add a sentence at the start
that says,
330807:35:15.855 --> 07:35:23.815Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Something about… following Chapter 17 from the CMC, which is the point of it, that's all. Okay. Okay.
330907:35:25.995 --> 07:35:34.744Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you. And, I accept the amendment. Okay, so, Madam City Clerk.
3310
07:35:34.945 --> 07:35:38.755
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Will you please, set our… reset our vote panel, and we'll vote.
331107:35:40.315 --> 07:35:41.345Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you.
3312
07:36:00.160 --> 07:36:03.229
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): The motion carries with Wong voting no.
331307:36:03.810 --> 07:36:05.769Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Alright, thank you.
331407:36:05.920 --> 07:36:12.530
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And, thank you, staff, for your assistance, and for Pam Lee, thank you.
3315
07:36:12.940 --> 07:36:19.659Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And to our city attorney. So with that, we move on to our…
331607:36:19.790 --> 07:36:26.949Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Final item of… of the morning, Item 4.
3317
07:36:27.260 --> 07:36:33.200
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Which is regarding the reconsideration petitions for Mary Avenue.
331807:36:34.900 --> 07:36:38.390Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And… Do we…
3319
07:36:40.090 --> 07:36:57.740
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so, this is to conduct a public hearing, to hear petitions for
reconsideration filed on behalf of the Garden Gate Coalition for Mary Avenue Safety, including petitions for reconsideration, a dated February 27th.
332007:36:58.370 --> 07:37:04.049Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And, also decisions on, I believe it's,
3321
07:37:07.480 --> 07:37:09.670
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): March 13th.
332207:37:09.810 --> 07:37:18.440
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Is that correct? Alright, so, Madam City Manager, do we have a staff report,
and is the,
332307:37:18.770 --> 07:37:24.599Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Is the person who requested the reconsideration here to… Yes. They are.
3324
07:37:25.170 --> 07:37:25.720Speaker 20 (Community Hall): zip.
332507:37:26.300 --> 07:37:29.430Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Zoom, wonderful. Okay, very good.
3326
07:37:30.480 --> 07:37:44.780
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): Please. Thank you, Mayor. So this item is a hearing on two petitions for a reconsideration filed by the Garden Gate Coalition for the Mary Avenue Project, seeking Council's reconsideration of its actions taken on February 3rd and March 3rd of this year.
332707:37:44.850 --> 07:37:58.769Speaker 3 (Community Hall): So these two petitions filed by the same party are pertaining to the same
project and will be heard as one item. To present this item, we have Michelle Hernandez, who is an associate
attorney with Elshar & Winder.
332807:37:58.870 --> 07:38:07.089Speaker 3 (Community Hall): And she will be presenting on behalf of the city, and before Michelle begins her presentation, we will first hear from the petition's legal counsel.
3329
07:38:07.120 --> 07:38:20.469
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I believe that they are, on Zoom currently, so welcome, and thank you for your
patience tonight. You will have up to 16 minutes to present. After you are done, Michelle will come up and
present the item.
333007:38:27.250 --> 07:38:30.639Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Okay, I… Joshua, are you there?
3331
07:38:30.730 --> 07:38:33.690
Joshua Safran: Good morning, Mayor and Council. Can you hear me?
333207:38:34.240 --> 07:38:36.429Speaker 17 (Community Hall): We can hear you. Good morning.
3333
07:38:37.540 --> 07:38:41.860
Joshua Safran: I'm Joshua Sophron for the Garden Gate Coalition for Mary Avenue Safety.
333407:38:42.080 --> 07:38:47.630Joshua Safran: I will be… I'm relatively brief, given the hour.
333507:38:47.800 --> 07:38:58.580Joshua Safran: We did send a letter a couple of days ago, which went into detail, what I'm gonna say, but for purposes of the record and for, in case you didn't read that.
3336
07:38:58.970 --> 07:39:00.670
Joshua Safran: letter. I'll just sort of…
333707:39:01.970 --> 07:39:20.099Joshua Safran: express our concerns here. So, the basic issue for us is that this hearing, particularly given the late hour, is unnecessary and improper. The city should not be proceeding tonight as though this is an ordinary reconsideration matter under your municipal Code Section 2.08
3338
07:39:20.190 --> 07:39:27.560Joshua Safran: 096, and it certainly should not be used tonight to harden or ratify these approvals that are already,
333907:39:27.780 --> 07:39:30.690Joshua Safran: under judicial review in Superior Court.
3340
07:39:30.810 --> 07:39:43.670Joshua Safran: There's several reasons for that. First, your own city attorney has already opined in writing that no reconsideration petition was required for the February 3rd actions, and so because there's a lawsuit that's now moot.
334107:39:43.820 --> 07:39:49.670
Joshua Safran: The city attorney's reasoning was that there were no adjudicatory decisions that were taken
at that meeting.
334207:39:49.900 --> 07:40:09.830Joshua Safran: And second, the March 3rd actions are not properly treated as adjudicatory reconsideration matters either. Those resolutions involve the street vacation and the exempt surplus declaration concerning city-owned land. Those are both indisputably public land and land use governance decisions, not
3343
07:40:09.890 --> 07:40:14.680
Joshua Safran: Ordinary quasi-judicial adjudications that would fall under the city's
334407:40:14.870 --> 07:40:29.509Joshua Safran: code, governing petitions for reconsideration. Third, the Coalition has already filed suit in Superior Court. The petitions were filed prior to seeking judicial review out of an abundance of caution, because the city's
3345
07:40:29.530 --> 07:40:37.669
Joshua Safran: posture here put us in a strange catch-22, where the city posted notices of exemption under CEQA, which started a 35-day
3346
07:40:39.240 --> 07:40:50.690Joshua Safran: statute of limitations, and then did not promptly post a notice of decision, after the February 3rd meeting, leaving us in a position of having to both hurry up and slow down, so…
3347
07:40:50.910 --> 07:40:53.209
Joshua Safran: We took a belt and suspenders approach.
334807:40:53.460 --> 07:41:08.409Joshua Safran: And have now gone ahead and filed our lawsuit within that 35-day deadline. In any case, under these circumstances, the city should not be bootstrapping our protective petitions into a hearing that we all agree was not required in the first place.
3349
07:41:08.500 --> 07:41:23.550
Joshua Safran: And that matters here, because the coalition's claims are not peripheral. They're serious, well-developed, and meritorious. They go to whether the city had legal authority to act as it did, whether it followed required procedures, and whether its findings are actually supported by the evidence.
335007:41:23.910 --> 07:41:36.729Joshua Safran: Beginning with CEQA, we believe that the city's approvals for each of these resolutions was
improper. The CEQA theory advanced by the city has been unstable from the outset.
335107:41:37.090 --> 07:41:56.710Joshua Safran: At different times, the city has characterized portions of the project as categorically exempt, as not separate SQL project, or as mere implementation steps, but this project is one integrated undertaking. It includes development of a 40-unit project, as you all know, on active city-owned right-of-way and public lands.
3352
07:41:56.730 --> 07:42:16.660
Joshua Safran: and the removal and reconfiguration of public parking and circulation, approval of a DDA,
committing city land and substantial public financial assistance to a private developer, and vacation of a portion of the Mary Avenue right-of-way, and a declaration that this same property is exempt surplus. Those are not severable administrative details.
335307:42:16.660 --> 07:42:19.589
Joshua Safran: They are the whole of the action.
3354
07:42:19.590 --> 07:42:35.550Joshua Safran: Our petitions explained why the Class 32 exemption argument was invalid, including because the record supports a fair argument of significant traffic impacts, parking impacts, circulation impacts, safety impacts, and because the City improperly segmented the environmentally
3355
07:42:35.830 --> 07:42:41.989
Joshua Safran: Consequential approvals, and proper disposition actions from this project, and cumulative
impacts.
335607:42:42.140 --> 07:42:57.930
Joshua Safran: The City's own conduct underscores this defect. The City Attorney has conceded that the
February 5th notice of exemptions were premature and had no force and effect, and once that concession was made, the lawful course for the City was to stop, reassess, and proceed carefully.
3357
07:42:57.930 --> 07:43:05.869
Joshua Safran: Instead, the city doubled down and repeated the same defective exemption theories in the
second set of resolutions, the March 3rd resolutions.
335807:43:05.940 --> 07:43:10.350Joshua Safran: Next, under Government Code Section 65402 and…
3359
07:43:10.710 --> 07:43:18.400
Joshua Safran: the overall funkiness of the sequencing of the approvals here. We've previously explained in
great detail that the city
336007:43:18.730 --> 07:43:35.070Joshua Safran: approved the February 3rd package of approvals before obtaining the antecedent, i.e, the prerequisite Planning Commission conformity findings that were required before the disposition of this public property and the vacation of the public right-of-way could take place.
3361
07:43:35.240 --> 07:43:47.189
Joshua Safran: The later Planning Commission action, i.e, after the City Council had already acted, did not cure that defect. It confirmed it. It was a post hoc ratification that was not lawful sequencing.
336207:43:47.310 --> 07:43:55.179Joshua Safran: The Mary Avenue right-of-way is not an abstract strip of land that can be vacated willy-nilly. The record shows active public functions there.
3363
07:43:55.670 --> 07:44:04.829Joshua Safran: Parking, bicycle circulation, access, buffering, and neighborhood connectivity, and the city cannot lawfully approve first and figure out conformity later.
336407:44:05.680 --> 07:44:24.489Joshua Safran: The February 3rd DDA is especially problematic. The resolution approving it and the DDA
were not collateral. By approving them, the City committed itself to convey city-owned land for nominal
value, provide millions in public assistance, and lock the project into a fixed disposition and financing
framework before lawfully completing the prerequisite CEQA.
336507:44:24.560 --> 07:44:30.009Joshua Safran: Section 65402, street vacation, and the public land disposition steps.
3366
07:44:30.460 --> 07:44:38.799
Joshua Safran: This is exactly why the Coalition has described the process as commitment first, findings
later, or perhaps more colloquially, cart before horse.
336707:44:39.300 --> 07:44:50.330
Joshua Safran: The March 3rd actions have independent defects as well. Lawful street vacation requires
supported findings that the area in question is unnecessary for present or prospective public use.
336807:44:50.460 --> 07:44:53.160Joshua Safran: Yet, the record clearly shows. These are…
3369
07:44:53.350 --> 07:45:02.539Joshua Safran: Active, present uses that are happening on the… on this property, on this land, for parking, bicycle travel, circulation, access, neighborhood functions, etc.
337007:45:02.580 --> 07:45:16.059Joshua Safran: The City's redesigned drawings do not prove the right-of-way is unnecessary. They prove the
project depends on removing and rerouting existing public functions. And the same is true for the exempt
surplus declaration. The question here is not whether
337107:45:16.130 --> 07:45:29.559Joshua Safran: The city would prefer to put affordable housing there. The question is whether the property is actually unnecessary for the city's existing uses under the statute. And the record shows that active public rights-of-way, transportation, and parking functions
3372
07:45:30.390 --> 07:45:39.730
Joshua Safran: are active. The City cannot lawfully bootstrap exempt surplus status from its own
redevelopment preferences while disregarding those current uses.
337307:45:40.390 --> 07:45:49.470Joshua Safran: On to the tax credit deadline. The city has repeatedly used this April 7th date to justify this rushed and backwards shambolic process.
3374
07:45:49.500 --> 07:46:01.970
Joshua Safran: The city repeatedly invoked this supposed tax credit deadline, through this process, and it also used that same supposed urgency to deny the reasonable accommodation I requested when I thought.
337507:46:02.000 --> 07:46:14.430Joshua Safran: this hearing was going to take place at 6.30, or within 7 hours of 6.30. But the official
regulations do not require what the city says they require. The cited CTCAC rule
3376
07:46:14.430 --> 07:46:28.829Joshua Safran: expressly allows an appeal period to run beyond the application due date. So the city's claim that tonight had to happen tonight, this hearing had to happen, these approvals had to happen, exactly when and how they did is unsupported. The City's fallback claim that the projects
3377
07:46:28.830 --> 07:46:41.270
Joshua Safran: with no currently pending, local appeals are simply more likely to be approved is not a legal
requirement. At most, it is an unsubstantiated strategic preference on the part of the applicant, which should
not be the driving factor here.
3378
07:46:41.320 --> 07:46:52.129
Joshua Safran: The findings… the financing preference cannot excuse defective CEQA, defective sequencing, unsupported findings, or denial of reasonable accommodation for things like this hearing.
3379
07:46:52.430 --> 07:47:02.480
Joshua Safran: The Coalition's filed lawsuit further undermines the city's position with regard to these tax
credit deadlines. The complaint seeks to vacate every single one of the major approvals,
338007:47:02.820 --> 07:47:16.869Joshua Safran: called into question here. It challenges the validity of the notices of exemption, which the city has already said were invalid. It challenges the DDA, it challenges the street vacation, the exempt surplus declaration, and it seeks to prevent further implementation of this project.
3381
07:47:16.870 --> 07:47:26.700
Joshua Safran: So, the city cannot say with a straight face that local finality was so urgent that it justified this rushed approval, and in fact, this hearing that it happened tonight.
338207:47:26.700 --> 07:47:34.989Joshua Safran: While also pretending that an active Superior Court challenge to every operative approval is somehow irrelevant. Those positions don't fit together.
3383
07:47:35.030 --> 07:47:54.139Joshua Safran: Finally, we preserve our objection to the participation of any Councilmember whose conduct has demonstrated prejudgment, bias, or lack of an open mind. The Coalition has already laid out that issue in detail. The point tonight is simple. Reassembling the same body on an accelerated schedule with denial resolutions already teed up does not cure the fair hearing problem.
3384
07:47:54.140 --> 07:47:58.990
Joshua Safran: It deepens the appearance that this result, which you're about to render, is predetermined.
338507:47:59.030 --> 07:48:17.149Joshua Safran: So the Coalition's request remains the same. The City should acknowledge that these petitions were protective and not jurisdictionally required. It should decline to proceed as though tonight is a proper Section 2.08.096 of the Municipal Code hearing. It should vacate the
3386
07:48:17.150 --> 07:48:19.269
Joshua Safran: For subject resolutions.
338707:48:19.550 --> 07:48:38.890Joshua Safran: Together with the related CEQA exemption determinations and the notices of exemption, it should refrain from further implementation and reset the process only after full compliance with CEQA, Government Code Section 65402, the Streets and Highways Code, the Surplus Land Act, and the
requirements of a fair and impartial hearing.
3388
07:48:38.940 --> 07:48:45.900Joshua Safran: I thank you tonight, for… or this morning, for your attention to this matter, and for allowing me the opportunity to speak.
338907:48:49.140 --> 07:48:52.649Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you, and Madam City Manager, do we have a staff report?
3390
07:48:54.770 --> 07:49:01.210
Speaker 3 (Community Hall): I believe we have a short presentation that Michelle's going to lead, so I will
turn it over to her now. Okay, thank you.
339107:49:09.740 --> 07:49:11.859Speaker 35 (Community Hall): Sorry, Lauren, are you putting up the slides.
3392
07:49:11.860 --> 07:49:15.370
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): video? Would you be able to share that?
339307:49:16.820 --> 07:49:17.550Speaker 41 (Community Hall): the…
3394
07:49:19.060 --> 07:49:21.069
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Are you plugged in, or I need to share?
339507:49:23.660 --> 07:49:25.480Speaker 6 (Community Hall): I'm not… I'm not plugged in.
339607:49:32.010 --> 07:49:33.950
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Okay, there they are. Should… there we go.
3397
07:49:34.890 --> 07:49:38.299Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Just let me know, and I can advance the slides for you. Great, thank you.
339807:49:40.820 --> 07:49:44.189Speaker 25 (Community Hall): Good morning, Honorable Mayor, Vice Mayor, Council Members.
3399
07:49:44.190 --> 07:49:50.730
Speaker 6 (Community Hall): I will be walking through the claims made in the petitions for reconsideration, along with the responses provided.
340007:49:51.290 --> 07:49:52.389Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
3401
07:49:55.020 --> 07:50:08.150
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Two resolutions, are up for consideration today. First, denying a petition for reconsideration and affirming actions taken by the City Council on February 3rd, 2026.
3402
07:50:08.170 --> 07:50:15.840
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): And second, denying a petition for reconsideration and affirming actions taken by the City Council on March 3rd, 2026.
3403
07:50:16.080 --> 07:50:17.009
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide.
340407:50:19.850 --> 07:50:30.639Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The February 3rd, 2026 resolution addresses reconsideration of the following Council actions. First, approval of an architectural and site
3405
07:50:30.900 --> 07:50:35.939
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): permit application number ASA2025006.
340607:50:36.290 --> 07:50:44.070Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Approval of a preliminary CEQA exemption determination, and approval of a disposition and development agreement.
3407
07:50:44.300 --> 07:50:45.469
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
340807:50:49.020 --> 07:50:57.400Speaker 42 (Community Hall): under… Cupertino Municipal Code 2.08.096, reconsideration is limited to the following.
3409
07:50:57.600 --> 07:51:05.750
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): First, an offer of new, relevant evidence, which in the exercise of reasonable
diligence could not have been produced at any earlier city hearing.
341007:51:06.000 --> 07:51:11.370Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Second, an offer of relevant evidence which was improperly excluded at any prior city hearing.
3411
07:51:11.620 --> 07:51:18.820
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Third, proof of facts, which demonstrate that the City Council proceeded
without or in excess of its jurisdiction.
341207:51:19.180 --> 07:51:24.169Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Fourth, proof of facts, which demonstrate that the City Council failed to provide a fair hearing.
3413
07:51:24.730 --> 07:51:32.400
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Fifth, proof of facts which demonstrate that the City Council abused its discretion by not proceeding in a manner required by law.
3414
07:51:32.690 --> 07:51:42.000
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): And or rendering a decision which was not supported by findings of fact, and or rendering a decision which the findings of fact were not supported by the evidence.
3415
07:51:42.110 --> 07:51:50.009
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): This hearing for reconsideration is restricted to evaluation on the grounds
enumerated in the municipal Code, and is not a rehearing on the merits.
341607:51:50.650 --> 07:51:51.849Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
3417
07:51:55.430 --> 07:52:10.600
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The municipal Code also differentiates between adjudicatory and legislative
actions. The approval of the ASA permit and the preliminary CEQA exemption determination have been
determined to be adjudicatory actions subject to reconsideration.
341807:52:10.800 --> 07:52:22.590Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The approval of the disposition and development agreement is considered a legislative action that is not subject to reconsideration. However, despite the determination that approval of the DDA fails because
3419
07:52:22.720 --> 07:52:24.919Speaker 42 (Community Hall): And… It is not…
342007:52:25.370 --> 07:52:32.190Speaker 42 (Community Hall): subject to reconsideration, we have considered the merits of the petitioner's claims against the approval of the DDA as well.
3421
07:52:32.540 --> 07:52:33.780Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
342207:52:38.040 --> 07:52:42.589Speaker 42 (Community Hall): With respect to the actions that were taken on February 3rd, 2026,
3423
07:52:42.760 --> 07:52:58.229
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Round 1, new relevant evidence. The claim that was made by the petitioner includes external commentary by Krubka Consulting is presented as new evidence. Documentation submitted on February 10th, 2026 is presented.
342407:52:58.330 --> 07:53:03.760Speaker 42 (Community Hall): And the City's Planning Commission agenda, as published on February 10,
2026, is presented.
342507:53:04.110 --> 07:53:16.449Speaker 42 (Community Hall): In response, the city has stated that minutes… the minutes in transcript of the February 3rd hearing reflect that Paul Krubka was present and discussed his findings during public comment.
342607:53:16.700 --> 07:53:21.669Speaker 42 (Community Hall): That made the Kruppa Consult… the findings in the Krupka Consulting
3427
07:53:22.030 --> 07:53:26.920
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): a report to become a part of the record that was considered by Council at
that time.
342807:53:27.730 --> 07:53:41.929Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Documentation on February 10th, not related to actions before City Council on February 3rd, 2026, and items listed on the Planning Commission agenda were not before City Council on February 3rd, 2026.
3429
07:53:42.150 --> 07:53:43.440Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
343007:53:46.720 --> 07:53:53.170Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Prior to public comment, the Mayor established the time… I'm sorry, Ground 2, Evidence Improperly Excluded.
3431
07:53:53.390 --> 07:54:02.620Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The claim made in the petitions… in the petition included impaired ability to present exhibits, insufficient public access to the complete plan set.
343207:54:02.730 --> 07:54:07.369Speaker 42 (Community Hall): And failure to provide the final amended versions of key approval documents.
3433
07:54:07.950 --> 07:54:09.320Speaker 42 (Community Hall): in response.
343407:54:09.480 --> 07:54:19.790Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Prior to public comment, the mayor established the time allotted per speaker as permitted under the government code, and public comment proceeded accordingly, allowing each speaker
their full allotted time.
343507:54:20.140 --> 07:54:33.329Speaker 42 (Community Hall): With respect to the plan set and supporting technical materials, they were made available at various stages of the project, including June 15, 2025 in the staff report that was filed, and the February 3rd, 2026 staff report.
3436
07:54:33.790 --> 07:54:41.759
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The published agenda accurately captures the item before Council.
Subsequent refinements did not change the overall nature of the item.
343707:54:41.990 --> 07:54:51.230
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The refinements were also reflected in the record through the staff
presentation, the Council discussion, and the reading of the resolution titles, and were therefore available for Council to consider.
3438
07:54:51.550 --> 07:54:52.769
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
343907:54:56.040 --> 07:55:09.340Speaker 42 (Community Hall): In addition, the total time expended on public comment at the February 3rd, 2026 meeting was 59 minutes and 47 seconds, including 27 speakers that were allowed to speak regarding the Mary Avenue development.
3440
07:55:09.710 --> 07:55:20.480
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): In addition, there was a study session that occurred on December 2nd, 2025,
wherein public comment was allotted 1 hour, 9 minutes, and 30 seconds on
344107:55:20.590 --> 07:55:23.300Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Available to 26 speakers.
3442
07:55:23.990 --> 07:55:25.349
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
344307:55:29.500 --> 07:55:33.620Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Ground 3, proceeding without or in excess of its jurisdiction.
3444
07:55:33.780 --> 07:55:49.819
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The petition's claim… the petitioner's claim includes sequencing and
jurisdictional defects, approval predicated on future right-of-way vacation and public property disposition,
and public land disposition via the DDA
344507:55:50.000 --> 07:55:53.960Speaker 42 (Community Hall): That was… that they're claiming was not compliant… compliant.
3446
07:55:54.740 --> 07:55:56.300
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): in response…
344707:55:56.660 --> 07:56:12.320Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The City states that an analysis related to the sequencing of events was discussed before Council at the study session on December 2nd, 2025, and additional information was provided in the supplemental report for the meeting on February 3rd, 2026.
3448
07:56:12.360 --> 07:56:24.529
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The DDA conditions its implementation on subsequent approvals, and the petitioner does not provide legal authority, indicating that those items must be completed prior to entry to the DDA, rather than structured as conditions.
3449
07:56:26.420 --> 07:56:27.660Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
3450
07:56:29.390 --> 07:56:32.249
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Ground 4, failure to provide a fair hearing.
345107:56:32.520 --> 07:56:49.790Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The claims include amendments adopted without public review, inconsistent basis for CEQA presented to the public and decision makers, a process to retrofit findings, conflict of interest bias, due process violations, and attacks on Council's ethics and credibility.
3452
07:56:50.610 --> 07:57:08.069
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): In response, the City offers that the published agenda accurately captured the
item before Council. Subsequent refinements did not change the overall nature of the item. The refinements were also reflected in the record through the staff presentation, Council discussion, and the reading of the resolution titles, and were therefore available for Council to consider.
345307:57:08.210 --> 07:57:20.690Speaker 42 (Community Hall): As reflected in the record, the City identified the applicable CEQA treatment
for each relevant approval. Ultimately, he made a determination for the project in connection with the later
discretionary actions considered by City Council on March 3rd.
345407:57:20.990 --> 07:57:33.080Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Statements made by counsel during the liberation reflect their evaluation of arguments presented in the record. The petitioner does not identify legal standards nor facts in the record that would support such claims for bias.
3455
07:57:33.390 --> 07:57:37.860
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Excuse me. Or a disqualifying conflict of interest. Next slide, please.
345607:57:40.230 --> 07:57:51.530Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Ground 5, abuse of discretion. The claim includes invalid reliance on CEQA exemption and improper segmentation, required findings not made for vacation, constraints on public subsidies.
3457
07:57:52.090 --> 07:57:57.780
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Gift of public fund issues. Findings inadequate regarding public health, safety, or welfare.
345807:57:58.190 --> 07:58:00.229Speaker 42 (Community Hall): In response, the City offers
3459
07:58:00.480 --> 07:58:07.870
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): As reflected in the record, the City identified the applicable CEQA treatment for each relevant approval, and ultimately made a CEQA determination
3460
07:58:07.870 --> 07:58:20.540Speaker 42 (Community Hall): for the project in connection with the later discretionary actions considered by the City Council on March 3rd. The vacation of the right-of-way and the declaration of exempt surplus land under the Surplus Land Act were not before Council at the February 3rd meeting.
3461
07:58:21.010 --> 07:58:34.960
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The petitioner has not cited legal authority in the record suggesting that the matters before Council on February 3rd would constitute an improper use of public funds. The project's funding has been discussed in the record at length since at least April of 2025.
346207:58:35.620 --> 07:58:50.860Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The petitioner also references a report by Krupka Consulting and staff analysis
related to an adjacent city project. Materials concerning those items were publicly available at the time of the
February 3rd meeting, including through public comment, and therefore could have been considered by the
Council.
346307:58:52.260 --> 07:58:53.460Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
3464
07:58:57.040 --> 07:59:01.520
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): In conclusion, with respect to the February 3rd, 2026 resolution.
346507:59:01.570 --> 07:59:18.000Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Petition 1 failed to satisfy any of the grounds for reconsideration pursuant to Cupertino Municipal Code Section 2.08.096. There was insufficient evidence to show new or improperly excluded evidence, procedural errors, or improper actions.
3466
07:59:18.390 --> 07:59:33.529
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Although we have included substantive review of the connection with the
DDA, we have also determined that approval of the DDA is not an adjudicatory action subject to reconsideration, and any request for reconsideration is also denied on that basis.
346707:59:33.980 --> 07:59:35.490Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
3468
07:59:38.720 --> 07:59:56.269
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The background with respect to the March 3rd, 2026 resolution includes addressing reconsideration of Council actions, including resolution number 26-024, vacating the public right-of-way along Mary Avenue, CEQA exemption determination.
346907:59:56.700 --> 08:00:05.000
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): And, approval of the resolution number 26-025, declaring the project site
exempt surplus land pursuant to the Surplus Land Act.
347008:00:06.840 --> 08:00:08.049Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
347108:00:10.310 --> 08:00:11.030Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Excuse me.
3472
08:00:11.940 --> 08:00:16.379
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Ground one, new relevant evidence. No claims were raised by the petitioner.
347308:00:17.110 --> 08:00:18.209Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
3474
08:00:20.210 --> 08:00:22.840
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Ground 2, evidence improperly excluded.
347508:00:23.150 --> 08:00:28.900Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The claims include procedures materially constrained presenting documentary and visual evidence.
3476
08:00:29.060 --> 08:00:40.949
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): In response, the City offers that prior to public comment, the Mayor
established the time allotted per speaker as permitted under the government code, and public comment
proceeded accordingly, allowing each speaker their allotted time.
347708:00:44.080 --> 08:00:45.190Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
3478
08:00:46.370 --> 08:00:55.170
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The time expended on public comment at the March 3rd, 2026 meeting
included 18 minutes and 28 seconds for 16 speakers.
347908:00:55.510 --> 08:00:59.309Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Regarding the resolution on vacating the public right-of-way.
3480
08:00:59.560 --> 08:01:07.539
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): There was also a total time of 12 minutes and 51 seconds, allowing 11
speakers with respect to the exempt surplus land declaration.
348108:01:09.050 --> 08:01:10.539Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
3482
08:01:13.660 --> 08:01:26.840
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Ground 3, proceeding without or in excess of its jurisdiction. Claims include
the March 3rd actions cannot cure or retroactively validate jurisdictional defects because city unlawfully committed itself through February 3rd approvals.
3483
08:01:26.940 --> 08:01:43.149
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Sequence of Surplus Land Act declaration. In response, the City offers, analysis related to the sequencing of events was discussed before Council at the study session on December 2nd, 2025, and additional information was provided in the supplemental report for the meeting on February 3rd.
3484
08:01:43.300 --> 08:01:49.829
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): As mentioned previously, the petitioner does not provide legal authority, indicating that the sequencing of approvals was improper.
348508:01:51.960 --> 08:01:53.690Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
3486
08:01:54.870 --> 08:02:06.849
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Ground 4, failure to provide a fair hearing. The claims include no recusal of council member with a disqualifying conflict of interest, restrictions impaired presenting responsive evidence. In response…
348708:02:07.100 --> 08:02:19.270Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Statements made by counsel during deliberation reflect their evaluation of the
arguments in the record. The petitioner does not identify legal standards nor facts in the record that would
support such claims for bias or a disqualifying conflict of interest.
348808:02:19.560 --> 08:02:23.900Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Prior to public comment, the Mayor also established the time allotted for speaker. It's permitted
3489
08:02:24.010 --> 08:02:26.590
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Code and public comment proceeded accordingly.
349008:02:28.380 --> 08:02:29.410Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
349108:02:31.830 --> 08:02:34.029
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Ground 5, abuse of discretion.
349208:02:34.270 --> 08:02:43.129Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Claims include invalid reliance and SEQA exemption and improper segmentation, failure to follow streets and Highways Code Section 8324B,
349308:02:43.790 --> 08:02:47.209
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Surplus Land Act and public disposition requirements.
349408:02:47.320 --> 08:02:51.830Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Resolution number 26-025 regarding the SLA.
3495
08:02:52.590 --> 08:02:58.870Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Improperly bootstraps what they consider not necessary for the city's use determination.
3496
08:02:58.980 --> 08:03:08.140
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): No evidence provided support that the vacated area is not needed for present
or prospective public use, and CEQA finding contradicted by the KRPCA Consulting report.
349708:03:08.790 --> 08:03:22.679Speaker 42 (Community Hall): In response, the City offers that as reflected in the record, the City identified the applicable CEQA treatment for each relevant approval, and ultimately made its CEQA determination in connection with the discretionary actions considered on March 3rd.
3498
08:03:23.190 --> 08:03:38.819Speaker 42 (Community Hall): analysis relating to the sequencing. Sequencing was previously provided and discussed before Council in December… in the December 2, 2025 study session, and additional information was provided in the supplemental report.
349908:03:39.350 --> 08:03:47.780
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): For February 3rd. As mentioned previously, the petitioner does not provide
legal authority to indicate sequencing of approvals was improper.
350008:03:47.840 --> 08:04:02.489Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The record includes the March 3rd staff report, staff presentations, and council meeting minutes, which contain evidence supporting the Council's findings on the vacation and SLA declaration, that the vacated area is not needed for present or prospective public use.
3501
08:04:04.400 --> 08:04:07.920
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): And that the site is surplus land under the Surplus Land Act.
350208:04:10.040 --> 08:04:11.270Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
3503
08:04:13.600 --> 08:04:30.660
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The March 3rd, 2026 resolution, in conclusion, petition 2 fails to satisfy any of
the grounds for reconsideration pursuant to the municipal Code. There was insufficient evidence to show
new or improperly executed evidence, procedural errors, or improper actions.
350408:04:30.670 --> 08:04:42.689Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Although we have included substantive review of the petition in connection with the approval of the vacation, we have also determined that approval of the vacation is not an
adjudicatory action subject to reconsideration.
3505
08:04:42.900 --> 08:04:47.319Speaker 42 (Community Hall): And any requests for reconsideration can also be denied on that basis.
3506
08:04:49.300 --> 08:04:50.560Speaker 42 (Community Hall): Next slide, please.
3507
08:04:51.330 --> 08:05:05.129
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): The recommended action before you today is, first, to find that the petition
for reconsideration dated February 27, 2026, pertaining to actions taken at the February 3rd, 2026 City
Council meeting.
350808:05:05.490 --> 08:05:15.670Speaker 42 (Community Hall): failed to satisfy any of the grounds for reconsideration pursuant to Cupertino Municipal Code Section 2.0 point… 2.08.096.
3509
08:05:16.190 --> 08:05:33.760
Speaker 42 (Community Hall): And second, to find that petition for reconsideration dated March 13, 2026, pertaining to actions taken at the March 3rd, 2026 City Council meeting, failed to satisfy any of the grounds for reconsideration required pursuant to the Cupertino Municipal Code Section 2.08.096.
351008:05:33.870 --> 08:05:43.319Speaker 42 (Community Hall): And third, adopt draft resolution number 26-032. And fourth, adopt draft
resolution number 26-033.
351108:05:44.270 --> 08:05:45.650Community Hall: It's been great tonight.
351208:05:45.970 --> 08:06:01.490Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Thank you. Catch your breath. So, so the hearing's open. Do we have any
clarifying questions from the Council at this time? And I see a hand raised from, Vice Mayor. Oh, no, that's…
From before?
351308:06:01.495 --> 08:06:02.635Speaker 41 (Community Hall): Beautiful. Alright.
351408:06:03.370 --> 08:06:10.519
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): No one has any questions at this time. We can go for public comment. Yeah.
Adam City Clerk?
351508:06:19.080 --> 08:06:23.169Speaker 41 (Community Hall): is good, too.
351608:06:25.600 --> 08:06:26.160
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): to…
351708:06:26.650 --> 08:06:33.799Speaker 17 (Community Hall): 2 minutes? Okay, we have 6 requests to speak in person, and at this time, I see 1 request
351808:06:34.270 --> 08:06:35.600Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Raised virtually.
3519
08:06:37.230 --> 08:06:38.540
Speaker 20 (Community Hall): Oops.
352008:06:39.660 --> 08:06:53.860Speaker 17 (Community Hall): So, we will welcome Eli Robles, followed by Jennifer Griffin, which I don't see, followed by Connie Cunningham, followed by Kenneth Javier Rosales. So, welcome, Eli, you have 2 minutes.
3521
08:06:58.430 --> 08:07:01.730
Speaker 14 (Community Hall): Good morning, Mayor Moore, Councilmembers, and staff.
352208:07:02.275 --> 08:07:08.095Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak, tonight. My name is Eli Robas, I'm a field representative for.
3523
08:07:08.100 --> 08:07:10.790
Speaker 43 (Community Hall): Carpenter's Local 405 here in Santa Clara County.
352408:07:10.920 --> 08:07:24.240Speaker 43 (Community Hall): The Marriott Villa project represents a significant opportunity for the City of Cupertino, in addition to delivering much-needed affordable housing that will allow residents to live, work, and fully participate in this community.
3525
08:07:24.450 --> 08:07:30.839
Speaker 43 (Community Hall): The project also has the potential to generate high-quality, family-sustaining jobs for local carpenters.
352608:07:31.350 --> 08:07:39.650Speaker 43 (Community Hall): These are the kind of jobs that provide stability, offer livable wages, healthcare, and a pathway to long-term careers and retirement.
3527
08:07:40.520 --> 08:07:54.479Speaker 43 (Community Hall): When the project incorporates local hire and strong apprenticeship opportunities, it not only strengthens the local workforce, but also reflects the values of a city committed to equity, opportunity, and community investment.
352808:07:54.880 --> 08:08:05.099
Speaker 43 (Community Hall): By utilizing apprentices from state-certified programs, the city can be
confident that the work will be performed by individuals who are well-trained, professional, and dedicated
352908:08:05.290 --> 08:08:08.419Speaker 43 (Community Hall): To completing the project safely and at the highest standards.
353008:08:08.860 --> 08:08:17.350Speaker 43 (Community Hall): We are actively working with the developer to help ensure the project meets these goals, and we look forward to reporting back to you in the near future.
3531
08:08:17.550 --> 08:08:23.040
Speaker 43 (Community Hall): As that collaboration continues to move in a positive direction. Thank you for your time.
353208:08:26.190 --> 08:08:30.450Speaker 1 (Community Hall): The attorney provided some clarification on,
3533
08:08:30.880 --> 08:08:37.330
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): What the types of comments that, that may be made so that they're, within the agenda item.
353408:08:37.460 --> 08:08:38.620Speaker 1 (Community Hall): That we have noticed?
3535
08:08:38.625 --> 08:08:53.384
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Yes, thank you, Mayor. We really should keep our comments to, the, question of reconsideration and whether there is any evidence that, you know, whether any of the five grounds were not complied with.
353608:08:53.940 --> 08:08:58.399Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so speak to the reconsideration and the grounds. Okay.
3537
08:08:59.110 --> 08:09:11.419Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you. Okay, I don't see Jennifer Griffin, so we welcome Connie Cunningham, followed by Kenneth Javier Rosales, followed by San Rao, followed by Gene Medorte. Welcome, Connie.
353808:09:12.350 --> 08:09:16.239
Speaker 27 (Community Hall): Thank you, and good morning to all of you.
353908:09:16.900 --> 08:09:19.360Speaker 27 (Community Hall): Honorable Mayor.
354008:09:19.620 --> 08:09:38.900Speaker 27 (Community Hall): Katie Moore, Vice Mayor, Councilmember, City Manager, and City Attorney.
My name is Connie Cunningham, Housing Commissioner, speaking for myself only. I strongly support the
recommended, denial of petition for reconsideration. I urge the Council to approve the recommended action,
as stated in the agenda.
354108:09:39.040 --> 08:09:41.729
Speaker 27 (Community Hall): Thank you for this time to speak.
3542
08:09:42.520 --> 08:09:48.479
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Connie. Next, we will welcome… Kenneth Javier Rosales?
354308:09:52.870 --> 08:10:02.769Speaker 28 (Community Hall): Good morning, Mayor and Council. My name again is Kenneth Javier Rosales. I'm the Leadership Development Program Manager with SB At Home.
3544
08:10:03.050 --> 08:10:11.810
Speaker 28 (Community Hall): Again, we're a housing justice, organization, member organization, that works across Santa Clara County to advance affordable housing.
354508:10:12.260 --> 08:10:21.859Speaker 28 (Community Hall): We're here in strong support of the Mary Avenue VS project and urge
adoption of staff's recommendation on the reconsideration petitions.
3546
08:10:22.980 --> 08:10:32.419Speaker 28 (Community Hall): Sorry, let me try to adjust… there you go. We are absolutely ecstatic about the… this 100% affordable housing development that carries deep levels of
354708:10:32.550 --> 08:10:41.340
Speaker 28 (Community Hall): Deep levels of affordability. It will house Cupertino residents who already live,
work, and rely on services in the community.
354808:10:41.345 --> 08:10:46.874Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Marcus, your comments on the reconsideration, not the merits of the actual project. Oh, sorry.
3549
08:10:46.880 --> 08:11:10.860
Speaker 28 (Community Hall): Thank you. This project has gone through extensive review and multiple
council approvals, and staff has determined the reconsideration petitions do not meet the required legal
standards. We hope you can uphold the staff's recommendation… recommendations. It maintains consistency and integrity in city decision making, provides certainty for time-sensitive housing financing.
355008:11:10.890 --> 08:11:23.249Speaker 28 (Community Hall): and supports the city's housing element commitments. Reopening decisions at this stage risks project viability, undermines confidence in the process, and delays much-needed affordable
housing.
355108:11:23.520 --> 08:11:35.010Speaker 28 (Community Hall): We respectfully urge the City Council to deny the reconsideration petitions and adopt staff's recommended findings and resolutions. This ensures the project can move forward and deliver housing for those who need it most. Thank you.
3552
08:11:36.230 --> 08:11:37.350
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Kent.
355308:11:37.460 --> 08:11:40.619Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Next, we will welcome San Rao, followed by Jean Bedorn.
3554
08:11:42.750 --> 08:11:48.520
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): Continuing Mayor War, Vice Mayor Chao, Councilmembers, and the Planning Commissioner, speaking on behalf of myself only.
355508:11:48.750 --> 08:11:50.380Speaker 18 (Community Hall): as a resident.
3556
08:11:50.640 --> 08:11:52.790
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): I urge the Council to…
355708:11:52.950 --> 08:12:10.790Speaker 18 (Community Hall): reconsider based on a number of procedural errors that have compounded over time across different councils, different city managers, different city attorneys, and a process that is not the fault of any one party, but the compounding set of failures that I'm going to outline in
3558
08:12:10.910 --> 08:12:16.189Speaker 18 (Community Hall): In the first failure, the city ran an RFP on public right-of-way before the vacation was complete.
355908:12:16.400 --> 08:12:19.539Speaker 18 (Community Hall): The RFP was never part of the administrative written record.
3560
08:12:19.670 --> 08:12:24.330Speaker 18 (Community Hall): It is unclear to this day if the RFP was for a ground lease or for a sale.
356108:12:24.590 --> 08:12:33.290Speaker 18 (Community Hall): It is unclear if the city got a single respondent, why the city could not rerun the RFP, as is always done with other projects, including other agencies.
3562
08:12:33.530 --> 08:12:36.549Speaker 18 (Community Hall): The city then went on to form a parcel before vacation.
356308:12:36.810 --> 08:12:40.249Speaker 18 (Community Hall): Partial formation presupposes disposition-ready property.
3564
08:12:40.450 --> 08:12:44.460
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): Doing that indicated bias, because vacation should be…
356508:12:44.650 --> 08:12:47.819Speaker 18 (Community Hall): Unbiased, and should be based on findings from the community.
3566
08:12:48.470 --> 08:12:55.640
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): The city pursued vacation before, the general plan confirm. In fact, the Council held a meeting
356708:12:55.770 --> 08:13:06.090Speaker 18 (Community Hall): Ahead of the Planning Commission meeting, and the resolution that the
Council signed specifically said the project is in conformance with the general plan when that had not yet
been established.
356808:13:06.480 --> 08:13:09.849Speaker 18 (Community Hall): The general plan confirm itself was biased.
356908:13:10.010 --> 08:13:14.540
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): I was the only commissioner asking questions for almost an hour and a half.
3570
08:13:14.860 --> 08:13:20.640Speaker 18 (Community Hall): A member of the public said, for over 25 years, there's been no vacations other than Prundridge Avenue.
357108:13:20.770 --> 08:13:23.119
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): And yet, out of the 5 commissioners.
3572
08:13:23.240 --> 08:13:30.310Speaker 18 (Community Hall): and the chair running the meeting, I was the only commissioner asking questions, and eventually the commission called the board.
357308:13:30.530 --> 08:13:34.449
Speaker 18 (Community Hall): And the only reason we were able to save that is it needed a supermajority.
3574
08:13:34.720 --> 08:13:47.319Speaker 18 (Community Hall): The city moved to a single-party negotiation before notifying HCD's interest list. There is no way the city could have assumed that this project was a rotary project, that it could be negotiating with charities, or that this was IDD project. Thank you.
3575
08:13:47.625 --> 08:13:50.035
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Next, we welcome Jane Badorn.
357608:14:01.730 --> 08:14:03.090Speaker 19 (Community Hall): Good morning!
357708:14:04.740 --> 08:14:08.690
Speaker 19 (Community Hall): My name is Zeba Dord, and I'm a Cupertino resident.
3578
08:14:09.020 --> 08:14:15.100Speaker 19 (Community Hall): It's late, and I'm tired of all of these frivolous legal actions.
3579
08:14:15.680 --> 08:14:25.140
Speaker 19 (Community Hall): They are simply delaying tactics aimed at blocking this badly needed housing
for our community.
358008:14:26.690 --> 08:14:37.720Speaker 19 (Community Hall): I urge you to approve the recommended actions and deny the reconsiderations. Thank you for your consideration, and let's get this over and go home.
3581
08:14:40.010 --> 08:14:41.060
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you, Jean.
358208:14:41.760 --> 08:14:50.410Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Mayor, that concludes the request to speak in person. I do have one hand raised virtually, so we will welcome Ranjan.
3583
08:14:55.040 --> 08:14:59.129
Ranjan Desai: Good morning, Councilmembers. I was not,
358408:14:59.300 --> 08:15:07.800Ranjan Desai: I was asleep, and thanks to nature, it awoke me, and really appreciate all of you, at this time of our
3585
08:15:07.970 --> 08:15:19.929
Ranjan Desai: You know, just, you guys, when all of you are sitting there and, you know, doing this work,
we are not against the, affordable housing as such, but the location, as we talked earlier.
358608:15:20.040 --> 08:15:24.299Ranjan Desai: It's just not appropriate. I urge,
3587
08:15:24.300 --> 08:15:30.699
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Pardon, we need to stick to the reconsideration item, not the merits of the
project. Thank you.
358808:15:30.700 --> 08:15:37.370Ranjan Desai: Yes, thank you for reminding. I urge the council members to agree to what, Josh, our lawyer.
3589
08:15:37.540 --> 08:15:48.459
Ranjan Desai: for representing the, Cupportino, Guardian Gate members here, is stating in his speech, we,
359008:15:48.550 --> 08:15:57.670Ranjan Desai: As you said, we are not against… the members are not against that, and then this was not at
all, you know, informed to other members here in the locality.
3591
08:16:00.290 --> 08:16:08.400
Ranjan Desai: And… let me see… there are kind of, you know, I urge all the council members to vote from your conscience.
359208:16:08.610 --> 08:16:12.310Ranjan Desai: And not, an un… an unbiased…
3593
08:16:12.790 --> 08:16:21.399
Ranjan Desai: A decision is needed here, in, in response to, all the objections raised by the…
359408:16:21.520 --> 08:16:28.660Ranjan Desai: citizens here. I really, I'm speaking on my behalf today, but, no, they're…
3595
08:16:28.790 --> 08:16:37.280
Ranjan Desai: hundreds and hundreds of residents who talked earlier about this. We are not against this
project at all, you know, but the location is not appropriate at all.
359608:16:37.450 --> 08:16:44.129Ranjan Desai: Thank you for allowing me to speak, and then hope you accept the reconstration and, deny going forward.
3597
08:16:44.270 --> 08:16:45.170
Ranjan Desai: Thank you.
359808:16:47.300 --> 08:16:51.469Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Thank you. Mayor, that concludes the request to speak on this item.
3599
08:16:52.645 --> 08:16:59.504
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you. For, purposes of, liberation, well, are there any further
clarifying questions?
360008:17:00.730 --> 08:17:04.779Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Are we able to ask the petitioner if he's still there, or is he off of the table?
3601
08:17:06.910 --> 08:17:10.450
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Petitioners still available virtually?
360208:17:10.450 --> 08:17:12.619Speaker 1 (Community Hall): And did you have a question for the.
3603
08:17:12.625 --> 08:17:14.145
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): I did, I wanted to know.
360408:17:14.145 --> 08:17:17.145Speaker 5 (Community Hall): So, what he thought was new material versus what was not.
3605
08:17:17.145 --> 08:17:18.055
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): No.
360608:17:18.060 --> 08:17:19.019Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I was hoping to ask him that question.
3607
08:17:19.020 --> 08:17:20.069
Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Is that okay?
360808:17:20.250 --> 08:17:21.360Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Wanna do that? Okay.
360908:17:21.625 --> 08:17:34.944
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): If you're still there, I want to understand what you consider was new material,
as the city responded back by saying there was no new material, and, you know, the whole point of a
petition is to introduce new material. So, can you clarify what the new material was?
361008:17:35.170 --> 08:17:49.729Joshua Safran: Yeah, one of the grounds has to do with new material. It's not the only ground, it was also if the council acted with that. Correct. Yeah. So, I'm a little confused by the city's response to that. What we pointed out was Mr. Krupka submitted a second
3611
08:17:49.730 --> 08:17:55.219
Joshua Safran: expert report after the February 3rd meeting that, spoke
361208:17:55.840 --> 08:18:06.039Joshua Safran: spoke to new and different cumulative impacts than what had been evaluated before in his first report, and so the fact that he spoke at the February 3rd meeting
3613
08:18:06.560 --> 08:18:19.910
Joshua Safran: is irrelevant. The details in an expert report issued after that February 3rd meeting were new information. It was certainly new to us, and we provided it to the city as part of the petition.
361408:18:22.340 --> 08:18:24.080Speaker 40 (Community Hall): Okay, thank you, appreciate that.
3615
08:18:25.980 --> 08:18:28.219
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Are there any further clarifying questions?
361608:18:30.520 --> 08:18:32.760
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Councilmember Fruen.
3617
08:18:33.950 --> 08:18:37.119
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): So it's not just a matter of whether the,
361808:18:37.560 --> 08:18:40.950Speaker 8 (Community Hall): evidence was produced after the fact. It is also…
3619
08:18:41.140 --> 08:18:46.780
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): whether that evidence could have been produced in time for the hearing. Is
that not correct, Madam City Attorney?
362008:18:47.890 --> 08:18:57.169Speaker 8 (Community Hall): That's correct. Okay. So, presumably, it could have been produced by the time of the hearing. In fact, it was denominated a quote-unquote typo, which I did not find in any way believable.
3621
08:19:04.440 --> 08:19:06.060
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Yes. Okay.
362208:19:06.200 --> 08:19:07.100Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Thank you.
3623
08:19:10.340 --> 08:19:17.149
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I'm not seeing any further clarifying questions. The public hearing is closed. Do
we have a motion?
362408:19:17.520 --> 08:19:19.900Speaker 1 (Community Hall): For deliberation purposes.
3625
08:19:20.540 --> 08:19:24.070
Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Sure, I'll move the staff recommended action.
362608:19:24.075 --> 08:19:26.534Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Councilmember Mohan? Second. Second.
3627
08:19:26.835 --> 08:19:29.515
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So we have a motion and a second,
362808:19:30.375 --> 08:19:33.294Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Do you have any hands raised to speak?
362908:19:33.645 --> 08:19:34.875
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): The council?
3630
08:19:37.335 --> 08:19:39.085Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Councilmember Wong?
3631
08:19:39.585 --> 08:19:41.635
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I'm just gonna reiterate, I…
363208:19:43.145 --> 08:19:55.085Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I may be the only member that's gonna say this right now, but I'm gonna say the process was backwards. The order of operations was not accurate, and I can understand why there was a petition for this.
3633
08:19:55.085 --> 08:20:03.865
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): We're trying to avoid a lawsuit between this community and us, and I don't
know exactly what the approach will be going forward.
363408:20:03.975 --> 08:20:10.584Speaker 5 (Community Hall): But it seems like a valid request. On my end, I'm not a legal expert. I know we've got legal experts here.
3635
08:20:10.725 --> 08:20:20.695
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): And this is what we're all gonna continue. How the law is interpreted is always very different than what the community wants, and this seems to be an ongoing issue, so I'll leave it at that.
363608:20:23.120 --> 08:20:30.050Speaker 8 (Community Hall): Councilmember Fruen. Yes, I'll just say that the community can avoid a lawsuit because Mr. Safran and his clients can withdraw their suit.
3637
08:20:31.770 --> 08:20:32.570Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Vice Mayor?
363808:20:34.680 --> 08:20:38.600Speaker 41 (Community Hall): So…
3639
08:20:39.770 --> 08:20:52.150
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Yeah, I think I stated my concern about the project with… regarding… there is no sufficient ground to vacate the land because there is still need for parking.
364008:20:52.540 --> 08:20:54.880Speaker 4 (Community Hall): For the CT. However…
3641
08:20:55.010 --> 08:21:13.749
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): for the reconsideration regarding, like, the argument that the order of operation is out of order, we shouldn't have done through the RFP and all that. These are all arguments that have been brought.
3642
08:21:14.670 --> 08:21:22.910Speaker 4 (Community Hall): before, when we had the consideration, so these are not new arguments. So…
3643
08:21:24.990 --> 08:21:32.180
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): And then the new evidence provided that it doesn't… Seemed to really provide,
364408:21:34.380 --> 08:21:39.580Speaker 4 (Community Hall): New argument, although at the time when the traffic study was
364508:21:39.890 --> 08:21:52.889
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): sent to me. I did forward it to the staff and ask if the staff can address those
questions that was raised in the study, but I never got an answer.
364608:21:53.040 --> 08:21:58.039Speaker 4 (Community Hall): So, it's not new information, however, I would say
364708:21:58.230 --> 08:22:04.130
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): We did not address those concerns raised in the study at the time.
3648
08:22:07.010 --> 08:22:09.070Speaker 4 (Community Hall): But is that ground for…
364908:22:09.230 --> 08:22:13.700Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Great consideration, I… It's new ev- it's…
3650
08:22:13.850 --> 08:22:18.780
Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Old evidence, but we didn't get around to answer the…
365108:22:19.050 --> 08:22:22.669Speaker 4 (Community Hall): Those questions that the concerns raised.
3652
08:22:22.890 --> 08:22:26.949
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): That's correct, so that's not really a grounds for,
365308:22:27.250 --> 08:22:34.989Speaker 2 (Community Hall): granting the petitions and moving into an actual reconsideration on the merits, but I hear what you're saying. Yeah.
3654
08:22:37.360 --> 08:22:38.470
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Councilmember Wong?
365508:22:40.600 --> 08:22:44.000Speaker 5 (Community Hall): I'm back in queue, so I'll take it off. Let me get out of queue.
365608:22:47.390 --> 08:22:55.039Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Not seeing any further hands raised. We have a motion and a second. Madam City Clerk, will you please…
3657
08:22:56.000 --> 08:22:58.009
Speaker 5 (Community Hall): There are two parts to this thing.
365808:22:58.010 --> 08:23:02.439Speaker 40 (Community Hall): We're doing it all at once, right? It's all at once. Okay. Staff rec. Okay.
3659
08:23:02.720 --> 08:23:06.859
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): Okay, so Madam City Clerk, you've reset the vote panel.
366008:23:06.865 --> 08:23:13.404Speaker 2 (Community Hall): So, I'm sorry, let me make sure. Was the motion the recommended action? Which is both resolutions. Okay, very well, thank you. Thank you.
3661
08:23:15.905 --> 08:23:16.685
Speaker 2 (Community Hall): Orphaned.
366208:23:21.840 --> 08:23:23.939Speaker 17 (Community Hall): The motion carries with Wong voting no.
3663
08:23:24.890 --> 08:23:25.810
Speaker 17 (Community Hall): Okay.
366408:23:26.590 --> 08:23:29.970Speaker 1 (Community Hall): That was our last item of the evening.
366508:23:30.150 --> 08:23:35.640
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): I want to make sure I'm not missing anything from the agenda. I wish
everyone a happy past weekend?
366608:23:36.850 --> 08:23:40.270Speaker 40 (Community Hall): That's true. We miss… Yes.
366708:23:40.780 --> 08:23:48.129
Speaker 1 (Community Hall): So, we wish everyone happy Passover. With that, this meeting is adjourned.
We will be back next Tuesday.
366808:23:57.690 --> 08:24:00.230Speaker 17 (Community Hall): I got it. I got it. It was just…