HomeMy WebLinkAboutASAC Minutes - 07-07-1977CITY OF CUPERTINO, STATE OF CALIFORNIA
10300 Torre Avenue, Cupertino, California 95014
Telephone: 252-4505
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE ARCHITECTURAL AND SITE
APPROVAL COMMITTEE HELD ON JULY 7, 1977, IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM,
CITY HALL, CUPERTINO, CALIFORNIA
SALUTE TO THE FLAG
Chairman Claudy opened the meeting at 7:12 p.m. with the Salute to
the Flag.
ROLL CALL
Members present: Bond, Irvine (8:25), Ripplinger, Sallan, Chairman
Claudy
Members absent: None
Staff present: Senior Planning Technician Caughey
Planning intern Kathryn McKenna
Chairman Claudy announced that no public hearing would be initiated
after 11:00 p.m. and that the Committee would adjourn at midnight.
INFORMAL REVIEW OF PLANNED DEVELOPMENT USE PERMIT APPLICATION:
13-U-77 Gaetano S. DiVittorio: To allow use of an
existing building as a tailor shop located
at the northwest corner of the intersection
of De Anza Boulevard and Lazaneo Drive.
After staff member Caughey had given his report, the committee
members agreed they should look at this after Planning Commission
had approved the use; they did not feel in a position to make a
recommendation for use.
16-U-77 B.A.S. Homes, Inc.: Construction of 37 single-
family residential units located adjacent to and
westerly of Foothill Boulevard opposite the
intersection of Alpine Drive and Foothill
Boulevard.
HC -197
Page 1
13-U-77
Gaetano S.
Di Vittorio
16-U-77
B.A.S. Homes,
Inc.
HC -197
Page 2
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
The site plan was exhibited by Mr. Caughey. He noted concerns of the
staff were: management of natural resource system, adherence to
recommendation of Flood Control District for easement and the imple-
mentation of recommendations of project geologist. Mr. Caughey
stressed need for minimizing interface impact between private and
public usages.
The ASAC concern related to the difference in elevation on south
side, lots 1 to 5, 30 to 35, as relating to Foothill Boulevard, and
design of buildings. The possibility of reducing pad heights was
discussed.
Mr. Jim Roof, MacKay & Somps, San Jose, explained proposal and these
concerns were pointed out to him.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Page 3, condition (2) should read: "The east base of the block wall..."
Page 2, next to last paragraph, change "resident" to "residence".
Pages 6, 7 and 8, replace "Ms. Gates" with "A resident".
Page 8, first paragraph, second line, delete the word "towering".
Member Sallan moved to accept the Minutes of June 23, 1977 as corrected.
Seconded by Member Ripplinger.
Motion carried, 3-0-1
Abstain: Bond
POSTPONEMENTS : None
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS: None
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS: Ms. McKenna advised there was informational
input from the City Council regarding landscaping policy which she
would report on at the end of the agenda.
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
1. Application HC -51,392.2 - Cal Coast Sign Company (Four -
Phase) requesting approval of a sign program for an
industrial complex located easterly of and adjacent
to North De Anza Boulevard and extending southerly from
the intersection of North De Anza Boulevard and Route 280
for a distance of approximately 2,500 ft.
Renderings of the signs were exhibited.
Mr. Eggers, Four Phase Systems, pointed out preferred locations for
the signs.
Mr. Caughey indicated Mr. Grigg of the staff would have to do an
analysis which would probably result in the sign being moved back
about 30 feet.
Slides of the area were shown.
Color chips were displayed. A discussion was held on whether the
base would look better as brown or black. Black was preferred.
Member Sallan suggested approving the main sign and then having
plans presented which would give location and appearance of
internal signs. Mr. Caughey provided a sample of type of plan
being requested.
After further discussion, Mr. Caughey said if the committee members
felt comfortable with overall design concept, the staff could
approve the locations of the individual signs.
The height of the signs was discussed. A slide of a sign at
Measurex was shown. Chairman Claudy said he thought it was the
single pole that decreased aesthetics of the sign. It was
suggested the signs be placed on two small blocks or two poles
rather than having the one thin pole.
Mr. V. Pittroff, Cal Coast Signs, said it would cost twice as much
to put in two poles.
Several suggestions were made. Member Ripplinger said he had no
problem with the single pole.
Member Sallan suggested a continuation so the applicant could
redesign internal signs.
HC -197
P age 3
HC -51, 392.2
Cal Coast
Sign Company
(Four Phase)
HC -197
Page 4
Public Hear-
ings closed
HC -51, 392 .2
continued
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
The hearing was opened for public comments.
A member of the audience said he felt these were good looking signs.
There being no further comments, Member Bond moved to close Public
Hearings, seconded by Member Sallan.
Motion carried, 4-0
Member Sallan moved to continue Application HC -51,392.2, Cal Coast
Sign Company (Four -Phase) so the applicant has an opportunity to
relook at internal directional signs. Seconded by Member Ripplinger.
Motion carried, 3-1
Noes: Bond
2. Application HC -51,015.2 - Straw Hat Pizza (John A. Lowe)
requesting exception to -Section 6.03.1 of Sign Ordinance
746 to permit two building -mounted signs for a restaurant
located at 20770 Stevens Creek Boulevard.
Colored renderings of sign and color board were exhibited.
Senior Planning Technician Caughey reported existing sign had been
struck and damaged by a truck.
Mr. John A. Lower, Straw Hat Pizza, 20770 Stevens Creek Boulevard,
Cupertino, showed a picture of the damaged sign. He said if the
exception were not granted, he would keep this sign and raise it to
15 feet so it would not be damaged again.
Mr. Lowe pointed out several Straw Hat Pizza places which have the
new Straw Hat logos.
Mr. Lowe pointed out the sign would be about 18 inches above roof
eave line because of steepness of roof at right side of the building.
He pointed out the sign is on the edge of the covered walkway and not
close to the building. Mr. Lowe answered Member Sallan that there
was no way to resolve this. He said the signs were made by the
company and any change would be a major cost to him.
Chairman Claudy pointed out the ordinance spoke to sign extending over
the roof line; only the eave line was involved in this situation and
would therefore not be a problem.
The sign area was discussed.
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
The committee members were in agreement that the proposed sign was
much preferred..
Mr. Lowe was assured the sign would be legal if the committee
approved the exception. He said he was considering internal
remodeling and would not want to have to change signs. He was
advised that the addition of two bay windows would require a permit.
Member Ripplinger ascertained the trim and sign shades of brown were
very close.
The hearing was opened to public comment. There were none.
Member Bond moved to close Public Hearings, seconded by Member Sallan
Motion carried, 5-0
A discussion was held to find criteria for justifying the two signs.
Mr. Lowe's letter of June 13, 1977 which indicated need for
exposure to traffic from both directions on Stevens Creek Boulevard
was referred to.
Member Sallan read Section 6.03.1 of Sign Ordinance 746.
It was felt the exception could be justified as it met requirements
1, 2, 3 and 5 of Section 103.2 and a, b and c of Section 103.3.
Mr. Lowe said there was a second door but it was kept locked
because there had been several robberies.
Member Irvine pointed out there was one sign on the street frontage
and one sign to identify the entrance.
Member Sallan felt one sign would be an unnecessary hardship
because of lack of identification.
Member Ripplinger questioned whether the applicant would qualify
because of linear footage of building. The building has a 50 ft.
frontage and surface are per sign is 56 sq. ft. Mr. Caughey
explained how staff had figured the sign area.
Mr. Lowe said he had to have a sign as business had shown a drop
since they had had no sign.
Member Sallan suggested a continuance to see if the sign could be
made to conform to Sign Ordinance. If not, then the applicant
could present his reasons for justifying the exception.
HC -197
Page 5
Public Hearin
closed
HC -197
Page 6
HC -51,015.2
approved w/
conditions
Recess
HC -51,296.41
Nor -Cal Asso
(The Koll
Company)
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
After further discussion, Chairman Claudy suggested approving the
sign conceptually if the applicant could reduce the sign by 2 ft.
in order for it to conform with the ordinance. The majority of
the committee members said they would approve this sign even if
the applicant found it was impossible to make the sign smaller.
Member Irvine pointed out that since the walkway came down and
touched the ground, it could be considered part of the building
frontage. Ms. McKenna read the definition of building frontage.
After further discussion, Member Sallan moved to recommend approval
of sign exception for Application HC -51,015.2, Straw Hat Pizza,
with standard H -Control conditions and Exhibits F and F-1. This
exception is to Section 6.03.1 of Ordinance 746. The committee
makes the findings as follows:
(1) That Section 11.01 contains wording under which this
committee finds that the granting f t1. •
6a oii�+.itg va. this exception 1S
in conformance with the purpose and intent of this
ordinance as justified by the following: Section 1.03.2,
criteria 1, 2, 3 and 5, and Section 1.03.3, items a, b
and c.
(2) Further, that the area of the wall signs as proposed is
in conformance with the ordinance on the basis of the
computation being done to include the linear width of
the building and the covered walkway. Reference Section
2.06.
(3) Existing ground sign and pole shall be removed at the time
the wall signs are mounted.
Seconded by Member Bond.
AYES: Bond, Irvine, Ripplinger, Sallan, Chairman Claudy
NOES: None
Motion carried, 5-0
At 9:10 p.m.a recess was called with the meeting reconvening at 9:21 p.m.
3. Application HC -51,296.41 - Nor -Cal Associates (The Koll
Company) requesting approval of site, architecture, land-
scaping, grading, lighting and signing for a shopping
center located at the southeast quadrant of Bandley Drive
and Alves Drive.
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
Two models of the center proposal were displayed.
Member Sallan complimented staff on its report.
Mr. G. W. Gibson, representing The Koll Company, introduced Mr.
Walter Ford from Alpha Beta Stores and Mr. Steve Helgerson, San
Jose attorney. Mr. Robert S. Bernstein was representing James
W. Foug & Associates, architects.
Chairman Claudy ascertained the applicants had received copies of
the staff report.
It was decided to go through the staff report, item by item. The
first item for discussion was the parking stall layout. Mr. Caughey
advised the committee that the parking standards had been changed
recently and now call for 18 ft. stall length + 27 ft. backup
distance,a total of 63 ft. from center. Applicant is proposing
65 ft. dimension.
Member Irvine questioned whether this was minimum or required. He
noted 65 ft. was standard in most cities. Mr. Caughey was asked to
clarify whether the 63 ft. was absolute or minimum.
Noting the committee members were unware of change in parking
standards, Member Sallan said she thought these things should be
sent down to the committee as it directly effected their decisions.
It was the opinion of the committee that the 63 ft. figure should
pertain to a minimum with the option to have larger dimensions.
Mr. Bernstein said they had changed to the 63 ft. since they had
been told it was an absolute; however, they preferred the 65 ft.
Mr. Ford said Alpha Beta was concerned about narrower width of 9½ ft.
stalls because of wide shopping carts, especially those stalls
directly in front of the store. They would prefer a 10 ft. wide
stall. i
Staff member Caughey read Ordinance, Section .002 (q).
Three of the committee members indicated they preferred to consider
the 63 ft. as minimum and not an absolute. Member Sallan asked for
a ruling from the City Attorney to clarify.
HC -197
Page 7
HC -197 MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
Page 8
Chairman Claudy advised this issue could be continued until a clarifi-
cation could be obtained. Mr. Gibson said they would be willing to do
whatever was required and asked the Committee to consider the 10 ft. stall as
originally proposed.
A redesigned landscape plan with 9½ ft. stalls was displayed.
Referring to three parking stalls north of "B" shop which staff had
suggested eliminating, Mr. Bernstein said from Alpha Beta's point of
view, there would only be about 25 trucks a week using the back dock
and they did not see the stalls as being a problem. These stalls
would probably be used by employees and were not intended for customer
parking. They were willing to put restrictions on the stalls with the
use of signs.
Staff member Caughey referred to informational exhibit. Mr. Gibson
agreed to move trash enclosure closer to building and putting stalls
where --..,1., 1-..,A
enclosure had been located.
The trash enclosure opening was discussed. Mr. Gibson said they
planned to have a roll out dumpster. Mr. Bernstein located the Alpha
Beta trash enclosure which he said would be below the wall of the dock.
It was noted the other trash enclosure gate would open toward Alves
Drive.
The 25 ft. wide driveway shown on west edge of Exhibit "A" was dis-
cussed. Mr. Gibson explained plans to sell some of the property to
Homes Savings and move easement north. He explained plans they are
making with Bank of America and Home Savings to make ingress and
egress better for all the businesses.
With regard to staff's suggestion that a 6 ft. wall should replace the
proposed 4 ft. on north side of truck dock facility, Mr. Bernstein
said they felt the 4' ft. wall would be adequate with the landscaping
they would use. He displayed pictures of another development using
this concept.
Chairman Claudy noted if there was a mounding only 1 ft. of the wall
would be seen.
The committee members were pleased with the wall and tree treatment as
pictured. Mr. Gibson expressed his willingness to make any change
necessary to meet requirements.
Staff report indicated proposed tree (Magnolia "Sam Sommers") had
undetermined growth habit. Mr. Gibson said they felt the tree would
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H —CONTROL MEETING
accomplish the desired screening.
With regard to acoustical impact on surrounding apartments and
Japanese restaurant from truck activity, Mr. Bernstein said the
ambient noise on the street would be as loud as any truck activity,
especially with the area being depressed and landscaped.
Chairman Claudy suggested a 6 ft. wall from sidewalk level with 2 ft.
mounding which would deflect any sound coming from the dock area.
Mr. Gibson agreed to do this.
It was noted that a sound analysis should be made.
With reference to ASAC Resolution No. 330, Design Guidelines for
northwest quadrant of De Anza Boulevard and Stevens Creek Boulevard,
Mr. Bernstein spoke to their landscape philosophy and described their
landscaping plans.
Chairman Claudy pointed out importance of screening cars and pointed
out a place where more shrubbery might be needed. Both Mr. Gibson
and Mr. Bernstein said that in their experience, shrubs had not proven
to be satisfactory.
After a discussion regarding walkway links, it was ascertained the
walkway between the business would remain but the walkway down the
parking lot would be eliminated if the 10 ft. stalls were utilized.
At this point, Measurex was advised by Chairman Claudy that because
of the lateness of the hour, it was apparent their application would
not be heard. He advised that their application would be the first
on the agenda of July 21. The applicant requested an extra meeting
be held. The committee voted 3-2 not to hold an adjourned meeting.
A discussion was held on 911 ft. stalls versus 10 ft. stalls. The
standards indicated 10 ft. x 20 ft. which would eliminate the walkway.
The committee agreed to send a recommendation to the City Council for
10 ft. x 18 ft. which was their interpretation.
Under Architecture, Mr. Bernstein described the store frontages. Most
of the fronts would be of aluminum and glass with a small bulkhead.
They would recommend using slumpstone and some ceramic tile of dark
brown. He referred to exhibited model. The bulkhead for Alpha Beta
store would be of red tile. All other bulkheads would be buff.
iC-197
?age 9
Measurex
advised of
continuation
to 7/21/77
It was pointed out that any modifications for a shop would have to
be approved by ASAC.
HC -197 I MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
Page 10
With regard to staff suggestion of "eyebrow" roof, Mr. Bernstein
suggested continuing wood fascia around on north elevation of
shop building.
The applicant said all roof mounted equipment would be concealed from
public view.
It was noted that the Magnolia "Sam Sommers" had been approved on
evidence of the pictures.
Member Sallan noted the rear of building was stark and suggested some
relief could be obtained by the planting of trees. Mr. Ford said this
was a work area and plantings would interfere with operations. Also
the plants would be endangered by operations. An espaliered vine was
suggested.
Mr. Gibson felt anything planted at the rear would be unsatisfactory
and suggested training the vine to go around the corner. He said they
would make an effort to bring some plants into that area.
Chairman Claudy ascertained the transformer on the property would be
screened.
Member Sallan pointed out there should be some screening to block the
view of the trash enclosures of A shops. Mr. Gibson agreed to do
maximum landscaping possible in the 5 ft. available. He also agreed
to plant a tree at northeast corner of A shops.
Member Sallan suggested a tree be planted at the corner of west
elevation of B shops.
Mr. Gibson said they would like to landscape the restaurant area
without approval. They would like to carry out landscaping to a
reasonable depth and then stop it. Member Irvine suggested going
to the 20 ft. setback line. This was satisfactory with the committee.
Mr. Bernstein said they were amenable to putting in more trees, as
suggested.
Relative to lighting, Mr. Bernstein displayed a brochure of fixture
and described their proposal. The Weyerhauser fixtures would be
used at peripheries for continuity but they would like to use an
energy efficient light on a higher standard. This will enable them
to use fewer fixtures and be afforded more light. The standards
would be 30 ft. high.
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
Mr. Bernstein said there would be four of these tall luminaires in
the center area.
Member Irvine said he thought what the applicant was proposing made
sense. He felt guidelines of Resolution No. 330 were too tight.
Mr. Bernstein said he felt the energy crisis would justify using the
Gardco standards rather than what was called for in the guidelines.
Member Ripplinger questioned how the two standards would blend. This
was discussed.
Chairman Claudy said he liked the idea of consistency but in this
situation the higher standards seemed to be more sensible.
Member Sallan suggested modifying approach to guidelines, that
Weyerhauser fixtures could be used on the peripheries and the
Gardco on the interior parking lights. She felt there should be
consistency in future developments in this quadrant.
The difference in light patterns because of two fixtures was dis-
cussed. It was agreed the light bulbs in the Weyerhauser fixture
should be the same as existing and the Gardco should correspond as
closely as possible.
It was determined the metal poles would serve as protection from
cars.
Relative to signing, the ground sign was discussed and exhibit
studied. It was agreed the sign was satisfactory.
Mr. Bernstein described the market wall signs. He said the letters
would appear dark during the day and at night become lighter as it
was illuminated. Member Sallan questioned having 3 ft. letters.
Mr. Bernstein said it was visually appropriate proportion -wise.
Mr. Gibson pointed out they are not requesting a pole sign on
Bandley Drive. Since Alpha Beta is 150 ft. from Stevens Creek
Boulevard, they think this is a minimal proposal. He said they
would be coming back for individual shop signs.
Member Irvine said to be realistic Alpha Beta needed building signs
from De Anza Boulevard and Stevens Creek Boulevard. Member Sallan
agreed but felt the De Anza Boulevard sign should be scaled down to
conform with ordinance.
HC -197
Page 11
HC -197
Page 12
Public Hear-
ings closed
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
After further discussion, signing was continued to allow applicant
to present a scaled down version for east elevation plus a program
for rest of tenants in the center.
Mr. Gibson said the signing was crucial to his agreement with Alpha
Beta and he would like preliminary approval of Alpha Beta signs.
Chairman Claudy advised the approval would be a conceptual one.
The hearing was then opened to the public for comments. There were
none.
Member Bond moved to close Public Hearings, seconded by Member Irvine.
Motion carried, 5-0
Member Bond moved approval of the site, architecture, landscaping,
grading and lighting portion of the Application HC -51,296.41, Nor -
Cal Associates, with the following conditions:
1-8. Architectural and Site Approval Standard Conditions to
the extent that they do not conflict with the special
conditions enumerated herein. In the event a conflict
does exist, the special conditions as enumerated herein
shall apply.
9. The recommendation of approval is based on Exhibits A, B,
B-1, B-2, D, E, and staff informational of this application
except as may be amended by special conditions contained
herein.
10. Layout of parking stalls on Exhibit "A" shall be revised to
18 ft. length, 10 ft. width with 27 ft. backup space. This
recommendation is in accordance with the committee's inter-
pretation of Ordinance .002 (q).
11. The applicant will be changing location of three stalls and
a trash enclosure on the northwest corner per Exhibit C- 1st
Rev. The trash enclosure will open to the north.
12. The wall to the north on Alves Drive side of property shall
be 6 ft. high from the sidewalk grade with a 2 ft. mounding
of the landscaping up to the wall. The Committee shall require
the applicant to have a sound analysis study run and this
shall be filed with the City. The study will show that the
noise level on Alves Drive will not be significantly increased.
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
13. The Committee recognizes that the property lines and circu-
lation easements depicted on Exhibit A of this application
do not in all cases reflect those approved under Application
1 -TM -72 and recorded on Tract 5162. Approval of a temporary
driveway opening a minimum of 32 ft. wide at back of walk on
the west side of the subject site may remain in effect until
an application for development of the Home Savings and Loan
site as it is configured on Tract 5162 is approved, or until
a tentative map adjusting property lines and easements in
the vicinity of the common boundaries of Lots 2, 3 and 4 of
Tract 5162 is approved by the City Council. At such time as
City Council may elect, the above mentioned temporary drive-
way opening may be relocated, eliminated or reconfigured in
accordance with Exhibit A of Architectural and Site Approval
Committee Resolution No. 330, or such other reasonable urban
design guidelines, as City Council may require. The parking
lot improvements associated with the subject development may
be constructed within the driveway easement north of Lots 3
and 4 of Tract 5162 provided that the applicant shall supply
to the Director of Public Works at the building permit level
written documentation from the lessees of Lots 3 and 4 agree-
ing to the construction of such improvements.
14. The restaurant portion of the subject development applica-
tion is not approved. However, the applicant shall provide
a landscape setback in this area as it is depicted on
Exhibit A 1st Revision to a depth of 20 ft. on the Bandley
Drive frontage thereof.
15. Store fronts of individual shops shall be enclosed in a
manner similar to the store front of the subject Alpha Beta
Market; that is, clear glass set in bronze anodized frames
with an underlying buff colored bulkhead. Deviation from
this standard shall require prior approval of the Architect-
ural and Site Approval Committee.
16. The wooden fascia on the east elevation of the "B" shops and
the west elevation of the "A" shops shall be continued on
the north wall of both shop complexes terminating at the
junction of said north wall with the east and west walls
respectively of the market building.
HC -197
Page 13
HC -192
Page14
HC -51 ,296.41
approved w/
conditions
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
17. Landscaping shall be as referred to in Exhibit C 1st Revision
with more shrubs and one additional tree adjacent to and
screening trash enclosure near "A" shop; one tree shall be
added to the northwest corner of the "B" shops to conceal
public view of the trash enclosure and two more trees on the
east property line as shown on plan.
18. The lighting plan for the subject development shall include
Weyerhauser fixtures described in Section 4a of Architectural
and Site Approval Committee Resolution No. 330 at the peri-
meter of site; the parking lot lighting fixtures may be the
Gardco type specified on Exhibit A 1st Revision. Emitted
light color from the Gardco fixture shall be closely identical
to that of the Weyerhauser fixture when installed.
19. Final layout of exterior lighting fixtures shall be subject
to staff approval. City Traffic Engineer shall examine the
lighting plan at the building permit level to ensure protec-
tion of the public from excess lighting intensity or spill-
over onto adjoining properties or rights -of -way.
Seconded by Member Irvine.
Mr. Gibson assured Member Sallan they would try to do something on the
north wall to relieve starkness.
Member Ripplinger said he was not sure the Committee had done the best
for Cupertino on this application with regard to the landscaping.
AYES: Bond, Irvine, Sallan, Chairman Claudy
NOES: Ripplinger
Motion carried, 4-1
Chairman Claudy advised this application would be heard by the City
Council at its July 141977 i4eeting.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS: None
NEW BUSINESS:
Member Sallan gave staff member Caughey an article to be copied and
distributed to Committee members.
MINUTES OF THE JULY 7, 1977 H -CONTROL MEETING
INTER COMMISSION NOTES
Planning intern McKenna distributed a copy of a letter from City
Council regarding the landscaping moratorium.
ADJOURNMENT
At 12:35 a.m. the meeting was adjourned to the next regular meeting
on July 21, 1977 at 7:00 p.m.
APPROVED:
Is/ John Claudy
Chairman
ATTEST:
Is/ Wm. E. Ryder
HC -197
Page 15