HomeMy WebLinkAboutASAC Minutes 03-06-1974CITY OF CUPERTINO, STATE OF CALIFORNIA
10300 Torre Avenue, Cupertino
Telephone: 252-4505
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE ARCHITECTURAL AND SITE
APPROVAL COMMITTEE OF MARCH 6, 1974 AND JOINT MEETING OF PLANNING
COMMISSION HELD IN THE LIBRARY CONFERENCE ROOM, CITY HALL,
CUPERTINO, CALIFORNIA
Planning Commission Chairman O'Keefe opened the meeting at 7:14 p.m.
Planning Commissioners present: Adams (7:55), Ga.tto, Nellis,
Chairman O'Keefe
ASAC members present: Dressler, Koenitzer, Sallan, Weinstein,
Chairman McLaren
Staff present: Planning Director. Sisk
Associate Planner Cowan
Assistant City Attorney Kilian
Chairman O'Keefe announced the meeting was for the purpose of dis-
cussing section 7.2 on page 9 of Planned Development Ordinance,
covering the role of the Architectural and Site Approval Committee.
He asked the assistant City Attorney to define the roles of the
Planning Commission and ASAC as mandated by the State.
The Planning Director noted that the Planning Commission would be
required to make a report to the City Council before final action
was taken on the Planned Development Ordinance. They have 40 days
to put the report together.
Member Weinstein wanted to discuss the role of the ASAC first before
discussing the Planned Development Ordinance. Member Sallan said
the Planning Commission had discussed the ordinance. The Planning
Director said no unequivocal position had beer, taken.
Assistant City Attorney Kilian said they had to look at mandates for
Planning Commission and Architectural and Site Approval Committee as
mandated by the State. He gave listed functions of the Planning
Commission. With respect to ASAC there is nothing in the State
plan covering it. The City has the power to regular architecture
and design. Basic power of ASAC is set out by Ordinance 468,
section 8. ASAC is a recommending body to the City Council. The j
problem is that rules and ordinance are not in concurrence. lie
referred to one rule that provides H -Control with power of repeal,
but the ordinance has no such provision.
HC -102
Page 1
HC -102 I MINUTES OF JOINT PLANNING COP1MISSION & H -CONTROL MEETING OF MARCH 6, 1974
Page 2
Member Weinstein said the problem is that in PD Ordinance there
are areas of obvious conflict. The overlapping areas was the
purpose of this meeting; to decide who would do what or if they
were to be overlapping. Mr. Kilian said the ASAC is simply a
recommending body to the City Council under law. The Planning
Commission is the decision making body pursuant to Ordinance.
Member Weinstein referred to. page 319 of Planning Commission
ordinance. 005.9 clearly gives the Planning Commission the right
from time to time to go into areas of aesthetics, landscaping and
architecture; things the ASAC was formed to do. It was pointed
out that was the precise development stage and was the responsi-
bility of H -Control. Chairman McLaren noted that in the past the
two bodies had been able to get along well under these conditions.
Member Weinstein said he was satisfied with that arrangement.
"Advisory" interpretation is nub of the problem.
Member Keonitzer said he felt there should be a definition: of the
responsibilities of the two committees. There are several areas of
overlapping responsibilities. He referred to H -Control Ordinance
No. 468, section 5, where H -Control is asked to review site design
but not given any opportunity to make modification.
Comm. Gatto gave background that established the various bodies.
With prestated ordinances, ASAC had been formed to review -aesthe-
tics. He said the City is now moving into planning areas. There
is no prestated ordinance; nothing is specified. The Planning
Commission feels it is essential to have control of items during
review that were previously prestated,
Member Keonitzer asked what extent the Planning Commission would
go into with each application - the exact landscaping and exact
location of building on lots? He referred to area of overlap
between Planning Commission of setting set -backs, amounts of land-
scaping and general location of buildings. He felt fl -Control
should look at architecture of building (Planning Commission having
set maximum size), and set precise location of buildings as long
as they are within the setback Planning Commission has set. In
answer to Chairman O'Keefe, Member Koenitzer said one suggestion
would be to look at the plans before they go to Planning Commission.
He would like to see roles separated so there wouldn't be any
cross purpose between the two committees. He felt there was a
serious -problem in trying to work with Planned Development appli-
cations if all they were to decide was a specific type of plant
to be used.
MINUTES OF THE JOINT PLANNING COMMISSION AND H -CONTROL MEETING HC -102
OF MARCH 6, 1974 Page 3
In answer to Chairman McLaren, Comm. Gatto defined the three
stages of a Planned Development application - basic conceptual,
definitive and precise. He noted the more definitive input given
before Public Hearings, the greater chance of an acceptable
solution from both the standpoint of the City and of the develope
Member Sallan said the critical stage is the definitive. H-Contrc
has had input at precise development stage which is after the
fact. H -Control needs to get input to developer at earliest
stage. If the developer is still in the framework of modifica-
tion, he won't react as vehemently if told to change than he
would at a later date. She concurred with Member Koenitzer.
This will have to be resolved at the definitive level and the
question becomes to whom do you input at this stage. She would
like to have input before the fact rather than afterward. She
suggested input at use permit stage of general concept on Planninf
Commission level and more specific on H -Control level.
With regard to H -Control being authorized to act for aesthetics,
she referred to Section 5 of Ordinance No. 468. Also Rules and
Regulations of the ASAC on page 10. Comm. Gatto stressed the
last sentence on this page which said nothing shall be construed
as restricting the powers of the Planning Commission. Member
Sallan said section 7.2 addresses the noticn fairly by saying in
addition to powers the Planning Commission has, H -Control will
supplement with aesthetics.
Comm. Gatto said reference to section 5, review of architecture
and site design would be in areas where expressly required. Dis-
charge of that requirement only occurs when there is an archi-
tecture and site review requirement expressed by an ordinance.
Under the Planned Development Ordinance, there is architecture
and site review required at precise development stage. There is
an ordinance telling when H -Control is to give input and a main
ordinance saying that H -Control can act. accordingly. It does not
say that H -Control acts for all site design review at any point -
it says when specified. At definitive stage there is no question
that aesthetic input is valuable at this stage.. Staff has given
aesthetic input to the developer of what is City policy or
direction. Comm. Gatto did not see where the H -Control could
perform a function at this point more effectively than the
Planning Commission when Planning Commission has conditional
powers to enforce its input. If H -Control and Planning Conunis-
sion disagree, it is just one more set of input to mill about i
and the Planning Commission still has to make the final recommend<
tion to the City Council. He suggested H -Control give the staff
directions for the developer through development policies.
Member Sallan said she believed they were now doing this, but it
HC -102 MINUTES OF THE JOINT PLANNING COMMISSION AND H —CONTROL MEETING OF
Page 4 MARCH 6, 1974
didn't satisfy her to have the concept of a body of people who
are concerned all the way down the line with site, architecture
and landscaping being told they could review these things, but
had no power to act on them.
Comm. Nellis said it seemed the problem was that H -Control felt
things were set so they have no flexibility as far as site is
concerned. She asked for specific examples when they would have
made a different decision. Member Sallan referred to Oak Shopping
Center. H -Control was directed to provide for a bicycle path,
but were not allowed enough set -back to accomplish it adequately.
Member Nellis said since it appeared that set -back and building
layout were two areas of concern, rather than having H -Control
review each and every application, they could give guidelines
that would cover these points. She said they needed guidelines
from H -Control for Saratoga -Sunnyvale Road and when these are
set, there would be no reason to wrestle over each application.
Her concerns were staff time, H -Control and Planning Commission
time. She would not want to add steps that would require more
time.
Member Sallan agreed that they needed to establish a policy state-
ment or performance standards that were related to aesthetics that
dealt with side setbacks and frontage setbacks. It was noted that
H -Control had been working along these lines with regard to High-
way 9.
Member Weinstein said there are areas where general guidelines
could be followed. The problem he sees is who has the final say
on architecture, Planning Commission or H -Control? The Planning
Director said schematic drawings have been asked for to give, an
indication of motif of building but that architecture was not
approved at Planning Commission level. Chairman O'Keefe pointed
out the final decision is made by City Council.
A discussion was held on who should be placing the buildings on
the site. Member Koenitzer said his feeling was that the Planning
Commission should set the use of the land and H -Control should then
place the buildings on the site. Comm. Nellis summarized the
problem as being should Planning Commission get involved with
location and setback of landscaped areas and where does H -Control
give input. Because Planned Development so dependent on how it
is laid -out, it is very crucial that Planning Commission do this.
She gave an example where the square footage and use was right,
but the application was not at all what the Planning Commission
had conceived for that area. Member Koenitzer said he was talking
about having it laid out to the last foot. Member Sallan said
she thought H -Control should have flexibility to make meaningful
changes; not major ones, but at least meaningful ones. She said
section 7.2 as it stands is some attempt at having this body
function aestt et:ically at a time when 4 may make a difference.
She does not see it as being usurping of anyone's power. She
MINUTES OF THE JOINT PLANNING COMMISSION AND H -CONTROL MEETING
OF MARCH 6, 1974
would feel better by knowing what the Planned Development would
look like and helping early in that process. She felt it was
clearly in the jurisdiction of H -Control to consider site and
landscaping.
Chairman McLaren felt one thing should be remembered. The land
is very costly and by the time the developer has hired an
architect, landscaping architect and time and money preparing
his application., she didn't think H -Control should re -landscape
it for them. She felt that sometimes members of this committee
overstepped on this.
Member Weinstein said he would like a better definition of
"advisory" and what action would be taken on their advice.
With respect to the mechanism of getting input in at an early
stage, Member Sallan suggested it could be part of the regular
H -Control agenda, coming before this body before going to the
Planning Commission. It could be an informal type thing with
the developer present. They could look at the plan and get a
feel of the site and landscaping area. Then it could go to
Planning Commission with their recommendations and Planning
Commission could then use this input. Member Weinstein said
if he spent time to study the application and make recommenda-
tions, he wanted it to be considered more than a recommendation.
He would like some procedure whereby Planning Commission and
H -Control could reach an agreement. He would like to be more
than an advisory body to the Planning Commission. Member Sallan
said she could be comfortable with having input at the defini-
tive stage. Member Dressler saw a problem in that the applicant
might have to come in twice. Member Sallan said if this is a
committee of aesthetics, then let them have aesthetic input
before the application was "locked in".
Comm. Adams said he had been on both sides of the fence. He
could see no reason why a compromise could not be found. During
Planning Commission review of conceptual or definitive plan,
maybe two members of H -Control could be present for input at
the meeting, giving a purely advisory point of view. Member
Weinstein said this was asking 2 people to speak for 5 people.
He referred to Member Sallan's suggestion that H -Control review
the definitive development during one of their meetings.
Comm. Nellis felt this would be making the City Council choose
between the two bodies if there was a difference of opinion.
Rules must be defined and spelled out so the two committees
are not doing the same work. Having H -Control members coming
to Planning Commission meeting and disagreeing would not be
good. Planned Development is on two major streets. If H -Control
and Planning Commission could sit down together and come up
with some broad guidelines, this should alleviate some of the
problem. Things to be considered would be landscaping setbacks,
HC -102
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HC -102 I MINUTES OF THE COMBINED PLANNING COMMISSION AND 11 -CONTROL MEETING
Page 6 OF MARCH 6, 1974
bicycle paths, sidewalks, and height guidelines. She pointed out
that section 7.2 is not a recommendation of Planning Commission
at this time.
Member Dressler pointed out both bodies deal with the same staff.
When something is initiated H -Control could be notified, they
could hear the preliminary plan and perhaps see slides. This could
be made part of the minutes and Planning Commission would see their
recommendations. For a use permit, the applicant would be going to the
Planning Commission and for the precise plan they would come to H -Control.
The consensus of the H-Concrol committee was to go along with section
7.2 as per City Council recommendation in the hopes that this would be
a satisfactory solution to the aesthetic overlapping responsibilities
of Planning Commission and H -Control.
In answer to Comm. Nellis, the Planning Director said he was not opposed
to H -Control input prior to definitive stage being approved. It would
be a matter of degree and formality. He gave several processes that had
been considered. He suggested his bringing in a plan at the end of an
H -Control meeting without reports, etc., and giving a very brief summary
of it. He did not want to add any more written work to staff's already
overloaded work schedule.
The Associate Planner pointed out there are some cases where you can't
divorce the land use from the design.
Comm. Gatto spoke to the role of Planning Commission. To evaluate a plan,
they must take into consideration all impacts and must consider total aspects
of the property. They must have the ability to address each aspect of a
total project. He noted the H -Control plays a valuable role in going through
the details of an application. H -Control serves a valuable function by doing
the precise development review. To duplicate the planning process would be
redundant.
Comm. Nellis noted the Planning Commission had been very open to what every-
one had said. In looking at a Planned Development application, the Planning
Commission must look at a total picture. She was concerned the two bodies
would be abrasive to each other. Would like to see H -Control have input to
landscaping and setbacks so they would have some flexibility. Written guide-
lines could be solution for staff and developers.
The Planning Director reiterated his offer to briefly appraise H -Control on
applications, but he wanted to be sure the depth of his report he was talk-
ing about understood by H -Control committee.
At 9:10 p. m. a recess was called with the Planning Commission adjourning
to their separate meeting.
MINUTES OF THE H -CONTROL MEETING OF MARCH 6, 1974
SALUTE TO THE FLAG
The meeting was reconvened at 9:18 p.m. by Chairman McLaren
with the Salute to the Flag.
ROLL CALL
Members present:
Members absent:
Staff present:
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Dressler, Koenitzer, Sallan, Weinstein,
Chairman McLaren
None
Associate Planner Cowan
Approval of Minutes of February 20, 1974
On page 9, paragraph 6, Member Sallan wished to add "and were
submitted to Mr. Myers and the City staff."
On page 9, paragraph 7, Member Koenitzer pointed out that the
first word in the third line should be "porcelainized".
On page 11, paragraph 3, Chairman McLaren said "Florida" should
be changed to "Palm Springs".
There was some discussion about the last sentence on page 8.
The Associate Planner said Mr. Myers' position now was there
would be no additional landscaping on site to the degree asked
for by H -Control .
There being no further corrections, Member Sallan moved to
accept Minutes of February 20, 1974 as amended. Seconded by
Member Koenitzer.
Motion carried, 5-0
POSTPONEMENTS - The Associate Planner noted the postponement of
item 3.
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS - None
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - None
HC -102
Page 7
2/20/74 Minutes
approved as
corrected
HC -102
P age 8
HC -51,320 .2
Karpet King
MINUT'E'S OF THE H -CONTROL MEETING OF MARCH 6, 1974
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
2. Application HC -51,320.2 of Karpet King requesting approval
of a sign plan for a commercial building located at the
northeast corner of Stevens Creek Boulevard and Randy
Lane. Continued from H -Control meeting of February 20,
1974.
Staff report: The Associate Planner went over background for
benefit of the applicant. Last August a sign was approved for
his business at Randy Lane and Saratoga-Sunnyale Road. Instead
a painted sign was placed on parapet of building. The issue is
two pronged in that the new sign would have to be approved and
it is 2 ft. over the 90 sq. ft. that is allowed under the present
ordinance.
Mr. Bruno Bicocca, 764 Emory Avenue, Campbell, said the sign on
side of the building had been removed. The crown part of sign on
front of building had been fixed.
Slides were shown of building and signs.
Mr. Bicocca said there had been some confusion with the sign maker
and he had had to have identification, so had just had the existing
sign repainted. He said the window signs were coming off and he
offered to take enough off each end of sign to bring it within the
allowed 90 sq. ft. With regard to the "Linoleum, wallpaper and
draperies" across the front of overhang, Mr. Bicocca noted that
the Charron furniture store next door had wording across the
length of the building. Member Dressler pointed out that this
did not exceed the sign ordinance since there was no additional
sign on building.
Member Weinstein pointed out the sign is vastly different from
one approved in August. He inquired as to why there had been so
many postponements. Mr. Bicocca said he did not see why this was
relevant, but enumerated reasons why he had not been present.
Member Koenitzer noted he did not care for either present sign
or sign approved last August.
Member Sallan said she had a problem with red background on signs
and preferred the approved sign.
Member Weinstein asked about removing everything and replacing
with approved sign. Mr. Bicocca said it would cost about $500.00,
He pointed out that the area he was in did not call for a fancy
sign.
MINUTES OF THE H -CONTROL MEETING OF MJRCH 6, 1974
The Associate Planner pointed out that when City Council approvedl
sign they stipulated a time period and the sign had been approved]
because it was already made up. They did not want to set a
precedent. The concern was expressed as to how this sign would
relate to the one next door.
After further discussion, Chairman McLaren opened the meeting to
comments from the audience. There were none.
Member Koenitzer moved, seconded by Member Sallan, to close the
Public Hearings.
Motion carried, 5-0
Member Sallan moved to recommend to City Council approval of
Application HC -51,320.2 of Karpet King with the standard H-Contr
conditions and the following conditions:
(1) The sign as existing on side be modified to the following
extent. The existing red background be painted a color
to be the exact color of the existing parapet. The yello
letters with the black border to remain.
(2) The "Linoleum Wallpaper Draperies" sign be eliminated.
Seconded by Member Dressler.
A brief discussion was held on the "Linoleum Wallpaper Draperies"
sign.
AYES: Members Dressler, Koenitzer, Sallan, Weinstein., Chairman
McLaren
NOES: None
Motion carried, 5-0
The applicant was informed this would be heard by the City
Council at the March 18, 1974 meeting.
3. Application HC -51,259.81 of Edwin J. Myers requesting
approval of site and architecture for a proposed bank
facility located in the Portal Plaza Shopping Center at
the northeast corner of Stevens Creek Boulevard and
Portal Avenue. Continued from H -Control meeting of
February 20, 1974.
HC -102
P age 9
Public Hearing
closed
HC -51,320.2
approved w/
conditions
HC -51,259.81
Edwin J. Myers
continued
HC -102
Page 10
Divers Dock;
MINUTES OF THE H -CONTROL MEETING OF MARCH 6, 1974
A letter was introduced from Mr. Myers asking for continuation
of this application.
It was so moved by Member Sallan and seconded by Member Koenitzer
to continue this application to next regular meeting.
Motion carried, 5-0
Member Sallan asked to have it communicated back to Mr. Myers
her concern about elimination of landscaping and to include the
service station. The Associate Planner explained the service
station is a separate property. The City Attorney would be
consulted to see if the applicant could be forced to landscape
service station area. A discussion was held by the committee
on what they would like to see on this site.
The Associate Planner said Mr. Johnson, designer of the building
for Divers Dock, was present. He explained this application had
been caught up in interim zoning. A modification to building
was being requested. It was brought to the committee for their
approval as the changes were fairly significant. The basic
changes were two entry ways on the front elevation.
Mr. Milton F. Johnson, Architect, 2417 Emba.rcadero Way, Palo
Alto, gave rationale for change. He said because of the delay
they had lost their tenant. He gave background of the building
intent. They would be taking out the pool and interior until a
new tenant was found.
Member Sallan asked if he was set on this exterior or would he
consider making it more comparable to the Adamo building on adja-
cent site. Mr. Johnson said he had lost over $5000.00 already on
this building.
A discussion was held on the possibility of changing the building
style. Mr. Johnson offered to go to the plaster with shake roof
as this would be more suitable to him. He said this would solve
several problems for him. Member Weinstein felt the roof should
be a tile to tie in with Adamo building. Mr. Johnson described
how the shake roof would be compatible, and made several suggestions
that would make the two buildings comparable. He said he was
acquainted with the owner of the Adamo property and would consult
with him.
MINUTES OF THE H -CONTROL MEETING OF MARCH 6, 1974
Member Dressler recommended a Minute Order on Application
HC -51,294.1 which was approved by this body in 1972 to permit
the architect to modify the exterior of the building to give
aesthetic treatment to match the Adamo building on adjoining
property. The modification would include changing the exterior
wood siding to a stucco exterior, modifying soffit treatment of
roof and to a parapet extension on the mansard. The modification
to the exterior would also include the addition of one entrance
and window on the north elevation as presented on Sheet #83
revised February 15, 1974 on Job No. 7015. Seconded by Member
Koenitzer.
Motion carried, 5-0
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
Member Weinstein asked what the status was on revision of
interim sign ordinance, and about the information he had
requested from staff. He referred to_,the Planning Commission
recommendation that H -Control get together with sign experts
and businessmen. He introduced an article from the Palo Alto
Times on revised sign ordinance. The Associate Planner said
there was an intern doing research on the requested information.
A discussion was held on who would be included in this meeting a
when it could be scheduled. It was decided technical personnel
would be included at first meeting. March 27 was suggested as
a possible date.
The Planning Commission Minute Order for H -Control to continue
working on overall landscaping design for I280 and Stevens Creek
Boulevard was discussed.
Member Sallan noted "Carefree Wash" sign was placed flush with
edge whereas she thought it was approved to rest against the
facade. The staff is to check.
Member Koenitzer referred to a sign at #85 at Stevens Creek
Boulevard advertising vacancies. It was his understanding there
were no more lots available in the park. The staff was to check.
Member Sallan asked about a review of Bob's Big Boy sign. Also
the brightness of lights hanging from the roof. Member Weinste
objected to having the figure of the Big Boy just inside the
window where it is clearly visible. Member Koenitzer said he
was also concerned with intensity of sign. This was something
that should be included in the Sign Ordinance.
HC --102
Page 11
MINUTE ORDER
Interim Sign
Ordinance
Landscaping
"Carefree Wash"
West Valley
Industrial.
Park
Bob's Big Boy
sign and lightE
HC -102
Page 12
Samples
needed
Election of
officers
ADJOUR MENT
MINUTES OF THE H -CONTROL MEETING OF MARCH 6, 1974
Member Sallan again commented on the advisability of having samples of
materials brought to the H -Control along with the application.
Chairman McLaren noted her office as chairman would be expiring on
April 17. She requested everyone be present at the April 3 meeting
as a full quorum is needed for election of officers.
It was moved at 10:40 p.m. to adjourn the meeting to the next
regular meeting on March 20, 1974.
ATTEST:
/s/ Wm. E. Ruder
City Clerk
Motion carried, 5-0
APPROVED:
/s/ Juanita McLaren
Chairman