PC 02-18-76
CITY OF CtJPERTINO, STATE OF CALIFORNIA
10300 Torre Avenue, Cupertino
Telephone: 252-4505
PC-217
Page 1
MINurES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON FEBRUARY 18, 1976 IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS, CITY HALL,
CUPERTINO, CALIFORNIA
SALUTE TO THE FLAG
The œeting was called to order at 8: 10 p.m. by Chairman Gatto
with the Salute to the Flag.
ROLLCALL
COI!III. present: Adams, Cooper, O'Keefe (10:00), Woodward, Chairman
Gatto
Comm. absent: None
Staff present: Planning Director Sisk.
Assistant Planning Director Cowan
Assistant Planner Kramer
City Attorney Kilian
PUBLIC HEARING:
1.
CITY OF
to Sign
signs.
CUPERtINO: PubUc Hearing to consider an amendment
Ordinance No. 353 establishing new regulations for
First Hearing.
Chairman Gatto announced this was a review of the amendment to the
Sign Ordinance. He estabUshed ground rules and delineated method
of operation for the evening.
Planning Director Sisk briefly reviewed the Sign Ordinance study.
Be noted to night as the first legally agendized hearing by the
Planning Commission. Final action would be taken by the City
Council.
Mr. Sisk. advised there were copies of the proposed Ordinance
available for anyone who wished to use them or to buy them.
Assistant Planner Toby Kramer who had worked with the Sign Review
Committee and written the draft gave the staff presentation of the
proposed ordinance. She briefly went over the format, purpose and
intent of the Sign Review Committee.
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MINUTES OF THE ADJ. PLANNING COMMISSION MTG. OF FEBRUARY l8, 1976
Slides were shown of various signs in commercial centers which represents
the biggest issue. She compared sizes of the signs with tþe existing
ordinance and what would be allowed under the proposed ordinance. She
said approximately SO% of the businesses now have signs that are non-
conforming to existing ordinance.
Ms. Kramer explained amortization period provided under the proposed
ordinance. In addition to the amortization period stated, the owner
of the sign is given the opportunity to extend the amortization period
if it can be shown that the economic life of the sign has not been
fully depreciated through IRS decpreciation schedules or some other
mechanism.
Ms. Kramer answered Chairman Gatto the amortization periods allowed
in the ordinance were those comparable to other cities and what were
acceptable to the courts. The City Attorney explained in more detail
what was meant by "economic life" of a sign.
Regarding administration of new ordinance, Ms. Kramer said it clearly
states which signs the Planning Director can approve and which signs
require approval by a group such as the Architectural and Site
Approval Committee. She referred to the listing of concerns that
would be looked at by this committee in reviewing sign applications.
Assistant Planner Kramer noted the proposed ordinance provided for a
sign consultant. This would be an advisory person with an expertise
in design or graphics who would help the committee in making decisions
on sign applications.
At the end of Ms. Kramer's presentation, Chairman Gatto commented on the
excellence of the document.
The proposed ordinance was then reviewed by the commissioners with
Ms. Kramer clarifying and answering any questions they had. She
referred to her memo of 2/18/76 and noted there were three basic
changes included as a separate memo.
Chairman Gatto suggested there should be a particular paragraph for
the computation of sign area under definitions.
On page 9,"Section 3.02, the discussion of who would constitute property
owner evolved with the decision to add the words "and/or" between owner
and person on second line.
Page 13, Section 4 .06, a short discussion was held on which signs are
considered to be informational.
MINUTES OF !HE ADJ. PLANNING COMMISSION MTG. OF FEBRUARY 18, 1976
PC-2l7
Page 3
Page 13, Section 4.11. It was noted that the 25% of window signing
allowed would be considered temporary even though the same area was
covered constantly, provided the copy was changed.
Page 14, Section 5.01. A brief discussion was held on differecJ:.ia~1B-3
between advertising and decorative statuary.
Page 16, Section 6.03.2. MS. Kramer advised the intent is to limit
each concern to one sign.
MS. Kramer clarified that the sign consultant would be a paid or
:""i'
volunteer person appointed by the City Council who would be available
as an inf01:1ll&tion source.
The hearing was then opened to the public for comments.
Mr. Dale F. Applegate, 1089 Avondale SI:., San Jose, apologized fo1:'
the small turnout of the business community. He complimented the
SRC on purpose and intent statement on page 1.
Mr. Applegate said his building at 20940 Stevens Creek Boulevard is
40 years old but has been brought up to 1'%'Ofesnonå1.' staà:datds. ::'!'he
previous owners had been allowed to legally construct the ground
sign. They hava leased the building out to a tenant in the same
type of business and revision of sign is œrely a change of letters.
Mr. Applegate said they were told they must present request to
H-Control who would automotical1y reject it since it will not be
in accordance to the proposed ordinance. The only solution would
be to tear down their 15 ft. $3,000.00 sign and replace it with a
~l sign costing another $3,000.00. They think it is unfair and
improper. The City is not taking into consideration the costs of
signs. 50% of the' display seen tonight is foolishness.
As for the amortization period, Mr. Applegate said he lenew the
zealousness of the personnel and H-Gontrol., The City is unconcerned
about the life of the sign and his economic situation. They would
malte him take it down immediately.
M1:'. Applegate referred to the proposed sign ordinance alternative
he and Mr. Morgan had submitted which he fel t was a normal and sane
request, He read the paragraph suggesting existing signs cons tructed
with a valid permit be allowed to remain under a "Grandfather Clause"
until such time as the property is sold to a new owner, major ground
changes are reques ted to be made to the sign or building improvements
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MINUTES OF THE ADJ. PLANNING COMMISSION MTG. OF FEBRUARY 18, 1976
for remodeling or constructing under a building permit of a value
in excess of $lO,OOO.OO. This makes it economically feasible for
businessœn to come up with the money to make a sign change. The
City should develop a plan, make it fair and enforce it.
Ms. Kramer amplified the intent of Section 10.02.1 was that there
would be no change of copy until the sign was brought into conform-
ance. With regard to this particular situation, Ms. Kramer said
they were granted an exception for a pole sign as they do not have
the required frontage or setback. Since they are changing face of
sign there would be no amortization period.
Member Woodward referred to previous discussion on amortization
periods. He reœmbered the deCision. being that copy changes would
be allowed and would then be considered under a three year amorti-
zation period. Ms. Kramer said at the time of that discussion, -
there were two choices. They could change copy and agree to come
in on July l,1976 with new sign application or they could change
the sign completely to conform with'the existing ordinance.
Mr. Carl Heymann, Sign Users Council of California, referred to
his letter addressed to ASAC Chairman, and asked if the Commissioners
had a copy. Since they did not, he read it to them, He said he had
been here approximately a year and a half ago and had offered these
same services but did not achieve much. The business community is
the one who will suffer tremendously and if they suffer financially,
the end result will be on the City's revenue. He referred to slide
presentation, noting that sigrli that are aesthetically pleasing but
non-conforming must come down.
Mr. Heymann questioned enforceœnt. He said he was told the City
did not have the staff or finances now to enforce the existing
ordinance. This creates a problem. The bad signs should be policed
first.
Mr. Heymann referred to a "self governing" ordinance. He said decisions
are being put into hands of a body of people who can overrule the code.
Cupertino is unique and deserves a special ordinance, but the business
community should be able to live with it.
Ms. Kramer spoke to enforcement. She agreed it would require a lot
of work on the part of the City. Under new ordinance, notices would
be sent as to what was non-conforming and period of amortization. The
sign owner would be responsible for contacting the Planning Department.
Notices would be sent out a year ahead of time. If not contacted, the
City would then notify them to remove the sign. After that they would
be contacted by the City Attorney and brought to court.
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MINutES OF !HE ADJ. PLANNING COMMISSION MTG. OF FEBRUARY 18, 1976
PC-2l7
Page 5
The City Attorney said the code enforcement officer's role could
be expanded to cover the issue of illegal signs. The person would
then be required to appear in court and to plead guilty or not guilty.
Chairman Gatto ascertained from Mr. [lilian that most of the work
would be done by the staff before the case went to court. It would
require only an hour or two of the City Attorney's time.
Planning Director Sisk answered Clairman Gatto that he felt the
staff could handle this issue.
Mr. Heymann answered Chairman Gatto that if Cupertino felt H-Control
was necessary, it should be in an advisory capacity only. In 90%
of the cases where H-Control attempts to advise rather than order
the matter will co_out to the benefit of the City. There are no
sign experts on H-Contral. A consultant would not be a sign expert.
Only sign pe~le are experts.
Clairman Gatto asked Mr. Heymann if he thought the applicants would
listen objecd.vely and follow suggestions of H-Control if H-Control
had no authority. Mr. Heymann said the ordinance should be clear
as to height, area, setback., etc. and in the majority of cases, the
businessmen would adhere to these. Mr. Heymann said cities should
be forceful about not issuing permits to unlicensed contractors.
Comm. Cooper asked if business people were involved in the study of
the ordinance, Ms. Kramer said Mr. Mulkern of the Chamber of Commerce \
and Mr. Heymann had been. She noted that although it was reques ted,
little information had been received from Mr, Heymann, certainly not
the concrete material he seemed to think. was necessary, Consensus
of both the' City and business community were incorporated in the
ordinance.
In answer to COmlll. Adams, Ms. Kramer said it was not requind that an
applicant be a licensed contractor, only that the application complied
with the ordinance. She pointed out licensed contractors erect
non-conforming signs too.
!he City Attorney answered Chairman Gatto that the City would be
unreasonably discriminatory in limiting issuance of permits to
those on a list and would probably be struck. down by the courts.
Mr. Walter Ward, General Manager for Vallco Park, said he felt the
staff and SRC should be commended for goals. He had not realized
action would be taken tonight and the slides they were preparing
were not ready for presentation. He went through a list of their
concerns as the proposed ordinance related to Vall co.
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MINUTES OF THE ADJ. PLANNING COMMISSION MTG. OF FEBRUARY 18, 1976
Section 8.02.2 - Flags. They had intended to fly the U.S. flag over
the mall portion of the regional center.
Section 6.06.4 - Industrial Parks. Mr. Ward wondered if there should
not be signs at every major entrance.
Mr. Ward noted they had intended changing sign of Vall co Village. He
pointed out the shop signs are a little over the proposed 2 ft. but
he felt they were acceptable.
Mr. Ward said the ordinance was too restrictive on a regional shopping
center.
Mr. Ward questioned gold leaf signs on offices and stores;- -Ms. Kramer
said these would be covered under Section 4.05. Mr. Ward said they
would probably not be visible from the street. Ms. Kramer said it
was not possible to write an ordinance that would cover every con-
tingency but these would probably qualify for exception. Mr. Ward
said the majority of professional people traditionally have names
on doors and this should be spelled out so it would not be a matter
of interpretation.
Section 6.06.1. Mr. Ward said a directional sign for a multi-tenant
building might include ten or twelve names.
Section 6.08.3. Mr. Ward said since Vallco Park was a planned
development he felt the master plan should be "Grandfathered" or
approved.
Section 7.08 - Turning Signs Off. Because of vandalism, they have
been asking tenants to leave lights on as preventive tœasures for
better security.
Mr. Ward suggested decals should be put on back of sign as he did
not think they would add to aesthetics of sign.
It was ascertained there are 36 signs in Vallco Village.
Ms. Kramer advised the commissioners that the intent with regard to
height of flags was aimed mainly at commercial flags. She felt it
should be handled individûälly'rather~,than',ùnder,..òrdinance.
Mr. Richard House, l0750 Rae Lane, Cupertino, said he was not prepared
but he wanted to voice objection. He assured them he did object both
as a businessman and as a tax payer. There is an existing ordinance
which Cupertino has not been enforcing. Situation will not be bettered
just by passing new law. Five years ago the Sears signs were approved.
It will cost a great deal of money he is not prepared to spend to
make them conform to the proposed ordinance.
MINUTES OF tHE ADJ. PLANNING COMMISSION MrG. OF FEBRUARY 18,1976
PC-Z17
Page 7
Mr. House answe red COtllll1~ Coope r thu he could not tell her whal: che
cost of replacement would be relative t'Ótheir yeuly gross. He said
he would get the figures and send them to the City.
At 10:17 p.m. a break was taken with the meeting reconvening at
10:27 p.m.
Mr. Robert Morgan, 1314 Whitegate, San Jose, asked to have one slide
shoW'll. It was at the corner of Stevens Creek Boulevard and De Ãnza
Boulevard. He said this is the type of sign the City should be
giving their attention to: scab signs without permits, chalk signs,
parked tt'Uck with painted sign, etc. Existing ordinance should be
enforced before adopting a new one.
In answer to COmlll. O'Keefe, Mr. Sisle. s tt'Uctured how present ordinance
is enforced. He said the City has been negligent to some degree
concerning A frame signs and some that have gone up illegally, but
these will be more fully enforced in the future.
Mr, Morgan said responsible businessmen will res:pcnd to ordinance
but these are not che ones the City should be concerned about. He
said they own a sign of great value that was in total conformance
when it was erected. He noted that just as chis body felt previoUSly
approved signs to be unsatisfactory, in a few years another group
might so deem signs ~proved by this ordinance. Such a stringent
sign law would be indiscriminately unfair by causing che removal
of aesthetically pleasing, legally placed, costly signs. He stressed
promotion of equitable "Grandfather Clause" to allow existing signs
to remain until the. property is sold or significantly altered. He
agreed that if a sign is an eyesore to the community or in disrepai-r
then action should be taken.
In answer to Comm. O'Keefe, Mr, Morgan said years should not be
considered as a criteria, circu_tance should be the determiner.
COIDIII. Woodward ascertained i't; was usually the owner, rathe-r than the
tenant, who would pay for the sign. Mr. Sisle. advised the o-rdinance,
as drafted or as modified, would be within the poliCY and zoning
power of the City. I.t:',was noted this is somewhat more detailed and
more clear than most sign ordinances. Beason for drafting the new
ordinance was to clarify some of the J.lQclear portions of the old law.
Mr. Lee O\eney, 10221. Adriana, Cupertino, said he came in daily
contact with small business owners. He asked what assurance these
small business people had that in a few years another group might
not require more changes. He felt -the shaggy trees that covered
signs and the telephone and light poles were more atrocious.
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KtNtJTES OF THE ADJ. PLANNING roMMISSION MTG. OF FEBRUARY 18, 1976
Q1airman Gatto agreed regulations change from time to time. Equity of
application and fairness to all are the tests of a regulation. He
pointed out reasonable amortization periods are accepted by law.
He agreed the City is charged with the maintenance of trees,1n :public
right of w;¡y, but not uncover signs.
With regard to undergrounding of utilities, Public Works Director
Viscovich explained the present status of this operation.
Mr. Cheney noted that approximately 50% of the signs were non-conforming.
He asked what would happen if these people decided not to conform and
the courts were jammed? The City Attorney said it has been their
policy to insure compliance. A very small percentage of this type
of violation gets to court.
The commissioners then discussed the real cost as a factor in
amortization. It was noted there are possibly some cases where
"Grand fathering" would be completely acceptable. These would be
dealt with on a case to case basis. Comm. Woodward said he would
like to see figures on what number of non-conforming signs are being
talked about under current law. He questioned whether they could
afford to set criteria on developments that will be constructed in
the future.
Comm. Cooper agreed she would like to know the cost involved for
different types of signs. She noted impacts are quite different
on small and large businesses. Ms. Kramer noted some cities have
said amortization should be based on cost of sign. Time was also
used as a criteria.
)"..
Comm. O'Keefe said amortizing utility is a diffj-:ult task. It is
more than dollars and cents. He was concerned about time it will
take to deal with this and time it will take to get it solved. He
would like to see number of signs and value~ before making a decision.
After discussion, staff was asked to come up with effect on existing
signs, particularly wall signs. and a plan that might be adopted to
lessen the burden on the small businessman.
Mr. Heymann said he wanted to make a point of clarification. He had
specifically mentioned licensed sign contractors. He did not insinuate
or imply any group of sign companies or contractors.
ADJOURNMENT
At 11:15 p.m., Comm. Adams moved, seconded by Comm. Cooper, to adjourn
to the next meeting on Thursday, February 26, 1976 at 7:30 p.m.
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