PC 01-26-04
CITY OFCUPERTINO
10300 Torre Avenue
Cupertino, CA 95014
6:45 P.M.
CITY OF CUPERTINO PLANNING COMMISSION
AMENDED MINUTES
JANUARY 26, 2004
CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MONDAY
The Planning Commission meeting of January 26, 2004 was called to order at 6:45 p.m. in the City
Council Chambers, 10300 Torre Avenue, Cupertino, California, by Chairperson Angela Chen, and
the following proceedings were had to wit:
ROLL CALL
Commissioners present:
Chairperson
Vice Chairperson
Commissioner
Commissioner
Commissioner
Angela Chen
Taghi Saadati
Marty Miller
Gilbert Wong
Lisa Giefer
Staff present:
Community Development Director
City Planner
Senior Planner
Assistant Planner
Assistant City Attorney
Steve Piasecki
Ciddy Wordell
Peter Gilli
Gary Chao
Eileen Murray
Election of Chairperson:
Com. Wong nominated Com. Saadati to serve as
Chairperson; second by Com. Miller.
(Vote: 4-0-1, Com. Saadati abstain.)
Chairperson Saadati chaired the remainder of the meeting. He welcomed the new Planning
Commissioner Lisa Giefer.
Election of Vice Chairperson:
Com. Miller nominated Com. Wong to serve as Vice
Chairperson; second by Com. Chen. (Vote: 4-0-1,
Com. Wong abstain)
Honsing Commission:
Vice Chair Wong nominated Com. Giefer to serve as
Housing Commission representative; second by Com.
Miller. (Vote: 4-0-1, Com. Giefer abstain).
Design Review Committee
Representative and Alternate:
Com. Chen nominated Com. Miller to serve as
alternate of the DRC: second by Com. Giefer. Vice
Chair Wong serves as the representative and will serve
as the Chair of the DRC. (Vote: 4-0-1, Com. Miller
abstain).
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January 26, 2004
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Minutes of the January 12,2004 Planning Commission meeting:
Motion:
Motion by Com. Miller, second by Vice Chair Wong to approve the January
12,2004 minutes as presented. (Vote: 4-0-1, Com. Giefer abstain)
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS: None
POSTPONEMENTSIREMOV AL FROM CALENDAR: None
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS: None
CONSENT CALENDAR: None
The agenda was moved to Item 2, since it was a continued item and because of the anticipated
length of discussion for Item I.
OLD BUSINESS:
2.
M-2002-06
YMCA
One year review of modification of a use permit to locate a
children's playground at front of the property and extend the
Hours of operation. Location: 20803 Alves Drive.
Mr. Gary Chao, Assistant Planner, presented the staff report as follows:
· Application is continued from December 8, 2003; Planning Commission directed the applicant
to meet with neighbors to work out concerns.
· Four meetings have been held with staff, YMCA and neighbors to address concerns.
· Staff feels all issues have been addressed.
· Mr. Chao summarized key issues:
~ Noise impacts from pool equipment on YMCA site; currently the pool building is
operating within the city's noise ordinance standards.
~ YMCA has installed sound wall on top of pool building to mitigate some noise impacts;
has agreed to install additional noise abatement devices to further reduce noise generated
by pool equipment.
~ Light glare from pool building. Blinds have been installed to block any possible glare
from indoor pool lights; exterior wall light has also been removed and adjusted lights to
minimize glare.
~ Noise impacts from outdoor activities at rear of pool building; YMCA has agreed to
reduce scheduled outdoor activity hours to 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. Monday through Friday; 10
a.m. to I p.m. or I p.m. to 4 p.m. on Saturdays. Attempt will be made to not scheduled
outdoor activities on Sunday.
~ YMCA is not going to schedule any activities in rear lawn area behind the pool building at
the neighbors' request.
~ YMCA will attempt to inform neighbors of any special events or activities outside of those
hours.
~ YMCA will install shrubs along rear property line to further provide a physical barrier
from the YMCA's activities to the neighbors to the rear area.
~ YMCA has installed security cameras to monitor outdoor activities. It will allow the
YMCA to manage and confirm complaints or problems and enable them to address them
appropriately in the future.
~ Loud music late at night: The YMCA has communicated with its janitorial staff to curtail
the music at night.
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January 26, 2004
~ Existing traffic volume on Alves Drive: It has been determined that the YMCA's
application to construct the children's playground and modify its hours of operation will
not generate additional traffic trips; the existing traffic concerns on Alves Drive should be
a separate issue from their application being considered this evening.
~ YMCA volunteers conducted a traffic survey over a period of four mornings, and the
report confirms that the traffic level on Alves Drive is comparable to those on other
residential streets in the city.
~ The neighbors would like Alves Drive to be completely closed off to prevent vehicles from
accessing Alves Drive from Stelling Road. The closure of a street should only be
considered if it is determined that the closure is part of the city's General Plan or if it will
alleviate major traffic impacts in the city. Based on previous traffic reports on that street
and YMCA's traffic survey, the traffic volume on Alves Drive in comparison to other
residential streets is not excessive to warrant closure. The Public Works staff will continue
to work and meet with the neighbors living on Alves Drive to explore options to further
improve the traffic circulation in that area.
· Staff recommends approval of the application in accordance with the model resolution.
Mr. Steve Piasecki, Community Development Director, noted that the sign directing traffic to use
Alves off Stelling, has been removed at the suggestion of a neighbor.
Mr. Chao:
· Noted that the original hours of operation were 7 a.m. to II p.m., and the approved hours were
6 a.m. to 10 p.m. Monday through Friday, and 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. weekends.
Mr. Paul Hansen, 2141 Prospect Rd., representing YMCA:
· Have fully adopted the Planning Commission recommendations to take a proactive approach
with the neighborhood and be in the spirit of resolving issues to the neighbors' satisfaction.
· Felt that although some of the changes were costly, without neighborhood support of what has
been done, they would not be successful.
· Reviewed the NW YMCA Progress Report, including the measures taken to address
neighbors' concerns relative to traffic, noise, impact of outdoor activities, impact of lighting on
premises, and notification to neighbors of activities.
· Reviewed the good neighbor policy adopted and timeline of next steps planned.
· Noted that the janitorial schedule had not changed, from 10:30 p.m. to 2:30 a.m. Monday
through Friday, and 8:30 p.m. to 12:30 a.m. on weekends, with the main focus the janitors on
the pool area as quickly as possible and as short duration as possible to address concerns.
Vice Chair Wong:
· Expressed concern about possibly making the hours earlier; however, Mr. Hansen said the
YMCA was a big facility.
Mr. Piasecki:
· Noted it would be appropriate regarding maintenance activities, if the Planning Commission
included wording in Condition 3 that maintenance activities are permitted outside of the above
operating hours, so that people don't debate that later on.
Chair Saadati opened the meeting for public input.
Don Huntley, 20685 Alves Drive:
· Supports the application.
· Are family members of the YMCA.
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January 26, 2004
· Expressed gratitude for all benefits ofthe YMCA; particularly the playground and nursery that
his preschool child uses.
Nicholas Skordilis, 10225 Beardon Drive:
· Owner of the building next to the YMCA, 8 unit apartment building
· Bought the property in 1989 because of the quiet, peaceful configuration of the property;
remained that way for 13 years until YMCA expanded the indoor swim pool.
· Since then the tenants have suffered from the constant noise of the HV AC system; having
difficulty sleeping, needed earplugs; during the daytime have difficulty watching TV; affects
nerves.
· YMCA has taken steps to alleviate noise, including relocation of two fans as Mr. Hudson
presented, and building a wall, but more is needed.
· After last public hearing, noticed a change in attitude of YMCA; had meetings with neighbors,
addressed problems and they seem willing to work with us, want to thank both the YMCA and
the city planning for contributing to the meetings.
· Expressed concern about the HV AC system, which although they presented a graph that the
noise of the HV AC system is the same as the ambient, said he had a report that the HV AC
system is 5 db above the ambient. The HV AC is about 55 and the ambient is about 50.
· Said the YMCA presented him with a consultant report stating that it would have a 10 db
reduction on the output of the HV AC system with a building of a silencer. However, in the
report it states that the 10 db will be on the output only and the same report states that 50% of
the noise generated is from the input and the other 50% is from the output, which means that if
we only address the output, then the input which is according to the report, as high as the
output, then the noise will be dominated from the input noise levels. Although doubtful the
overall will be 10 db, what I would like to see is first the built ofthe output silencer to see if
the noise levels can be reduced down to the ambient noise, and if not, then I would like a
commitment from the YMCA that they would be willing to look at input silencer in case the
output silencer does not reduce the noise levels to the ambient noise.
· Said that if YMCA builds the output silencer, he is willing to look at the input silencer, in case
the output silencer does not work alone; and was willing to support the project and any
reasonable future projects they may have.
Larry Dean, 22159 Ray Lane, current Board Chair of Board of Managers, NW YMCA:
· Representing the 18 member board who are community volunteer members to reiterate the
YMCA's support of the efforts put forth in the last month.
· Said he recognized that due to a lot of the growth in the last years, they could have done a
better job in communicating with the neighbors and their staff has reacted to that quickly
although belatedly.
· Said the Planning Commission and staff had the full support of the Board of Managers and
YMCA staff to continue the open communications and try to continue to resolve issues that
may come up.
· Appreciated everyone's help and cooperation and the neighbors who have come forth to put
their issues on the table.
Megan Early, 1520 Ashcroft Way, Sunnyvale:
· Said she and her brother learned to swim at the Westchester YMCA in Los Angeles.
· During 6 year membership to the NW YMCA they completed advanced swim and have been
certified in youth strength training.
· Have been attending YMCA camps for 5 years.
· Supports the YMCA.
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January 26, 2004
Alex Early, 1520 Ashcroft Way, Sunnyvale:
· Has been a member of the YMCA since she was 6 months old.
· During the summer the daycare at the YMCA watches over the kids; the kids want to go
outside because it is warm and sunny but there is no safe place to play; so it would be great if
the playground was built because they would have a safe place to play.
Jim Limberatos, 20724 Garden Gate Drive:
· Supports project.
· Have resided there since 1951 and waited 43 years for the YMCA to put in a pool about 3
years ago; swim there 4-5 days per week.
· Many people there with physical therapy needs and the YMCA meets their needs.
· Wife uses pool and exercise facilities.
· Both commend the YMCA staff for being considerate, capable and dedicated.
· The children's programs are phenomenal.
· Happy with the YMCA; it is an asset to the community.
Cheryl Vargas, 20803 Alves Drive, representing the YMCA:
· Echoed the thanks and appreciation to the neighbors for coming out and having open dialog
with the YMCA and working through issues and concerns since meeting in December.
· It is the commitment on behalf of the YMCA, not only at Northwest branch but the YMCA of
Santa Clara Valley to continue the efforts and working together to make the relationship with
our immediate neighbors amenable.
· With regard to the HV AC system and continuing to work with the neighbor to reduce the
decibel readings, will continue to keep those things in consideration as they move forward to
the next step, the new baffle system in, and if necessary, go to the next step.
· Thanked young participants who came out today and spoke on behalf of the youth the YMCA
serves in Cupertino, Sunnyvale and surrounding cities.
Chair Saadati closed the public hearing.
Com. Miller:
· The YMCA has gone the extra mile to work with the neighbors.
· Recommend approval that they move forward with their playground since it is clear there
aren't any issues that need to be worked on further.
Com. Chen:
· Wanted to confirm that the YMCA was committed to quarterly meetings to keep
communication going with the neighbors.
· Thanked the YMCA for providing great benefits to the community.
· Glad to see the community working together to resolve issues.
· Thanked all the speakers who provided information to help make a decision.
· Supports the project.
Vice Chair Wong:
· Supports the application.
· It is important that the YMCA had the opportunity to talk with their neighbors.
· Tonight discussing the playground and the hours of operation.
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January 26, 2004
· If the neighbors have a concern, the model resolution states that if there was a concern, the
neighbors shall have a Planning Commission hearing, hence the safeguards built into the
model resolution are good.
· Appreciate the YMCA Board of Directors as well as the YMCA staff for being proactive and
acting with the neighbors; they are willing to commit some money into noise reduction vs.
mitigation abatement.
· Pleased they are moving forward.
Com. Giefer:
· Said that when she visited the site she noticed that the shrubbery was deciduous and
recommended that future landscaping be evergreen shrubs so that the neighbors enjoy more
benefit and noise reduction through the plant materials selected by the YMCA.
· The YMCA has done an excellent job in reviewing tapes from the proceeding hearings and has
also spent a considerable amount of money rectifying the mistakes or the issues outstanding;
based on their efforts and testimony heard tonight, she supports the project.
Chair Saadati:
· Supports the project.
· YMCA has done a lot of work since the last Planning Commission meeting and applaud the
effort in meeting with the neighbors and continuing to be a good neighbor and communicate
with them.
Motion:
Motion by Com. Chen, second by Com. Miller, to approve M-2002-06 as
amended, adding the wording in Condition 3 that maintenance activities are
permitted outside the above operating hours; add wording condition No.5,
also additional evergreen shrubbery shall be planted along the existing wood
fence. (Vote: 5-0-0)
Chair Saadati moved the agenda back to Item 1.
1.
MCA-2003-02, EA-2003-19
City of Cupertino
Municipal Code Amendment to Chapter 19.28
and related chapters affecting single-family
residential development in the Rl zoning district.
Location: Citywide
Tentative City Council date: Feb. 17, 2004
Chair Saadati:
· Reported that the study session was held earlier to discuss the process for this item; concluded
that the item would likely go on for about three months and all Commissioners agreed that they
needed to hear everyone on the subject and also to find out how many people are here to speak
on this item.
Mr. Peter GiIIi, Senior Planner, presented the staff report as follows:
· In 1999 in response to public complaints about new construction, the RI ordinance was
amended by the City Council; these regulations included second story limits and a design
review process.
· The staff report contains a detailed history.
· Late last year the City Council authorized the Planning Commission to review the ordinance;
the questions that are before the Commission include: is the ordinance accomplishing its
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purpose; and are there ways to improve it and improve it for all members of the public, not just
one side; those wanting more protection.
· The Council approved the scope of work which is attached to the staff report. The scope
includes issues that have been raised in the past few years, major issues including how much
you can have on the second story and the design review process, and also a number of
technical changes.
· As the Chair referred to in study session, the Planning Commission chose to receive input and
put off the discussion of issues until after all input is received. Also as agreed, the staff will
put together all the public input into a tabular form for review.
· While the Planning Commission is receiving all the testimony, they are asked to identify the
issues and think ofthe large scale issues above the one issue, because later in the process, want
to identify the principles that you want this RI ordinance amendment to represent.
· Said that Exhibit A in the staff report is split into the major issues and what is perceived as
minor issues. There are options included, it is going to up to the Planning Commission after
hearing from the public to say what is going to be decided; there are some minor issues where
there is a staff recommendation on the language and those are items staff does not perceive to
be a controversial item.
· Recommendation is to take public input, and after the initial input is received, there will be an
organized version of the input and decision made on what steps to take after that.
Mr. Piasecki:
· Added for the benefit of the public that may not come to many of these meetings, the Planning
Commission following its deliberations will develop a recommendation; which will be
forwarded to the City Council and there will be another opportunity before the City Council to
provide input on the recommendation. There will be many opportunities both at the Planning
Commission and later on at the City Council.
Chair Saadati opened the public hearing.
Dennis Houlsby, 10255 Mira Vista:
· Said that he submitted a letter in the packet.
· Said he agreed with the main purpose of the ordinance, to limit the impact of monster houses
on existing neighborhoods, and their intrusion in the privacy oftheir neighbors.
· Suggested five points that could improve the ordinance:
~ The requirement that the second story addition not exceed the 35% FAR. The 35%
requirement may be reasonable for a large houses, but not for small ones.
~ An existing 1600 square foot house would be restricted to a 560 square foot second story;
however, a 3500 square foot would be allowed 1225 square feet. The owner would be
forced to expand the first story in order to construct a reasonably sized second story if he
had a smaller house.
~ The RI ordinance should allow larger second stories on smaller houses by increasing the
FAR and the existing house decreases in size from the maximum allowed in the lot; thus
the second story addition for a maximum sized house would remain at 35% which would
increase the 50% on a sliding scale as the house decreased in size from its maximum
allowable down to 2,000 square feet. That would be fairer for those with smaller houses;
who want a reasonable or modest second story addition.
~ Rl requires that decks and balconies be included as living areas. This requirement
severely impacts the size of the second story based on the FAR of 35%; for example, the
covered patio is not considered a living space but a covered deck on top of that patio is
considered living space. By duly restricting the second story, the R I ordinance should not
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January 26, 2004
include decks and balconies as living space when applying the 35% rule. Again for a
smaller house this is a large impact.
~ Rl requires that the visible second story wall height not exceed 6 feet, or 50% of the
perimeter. When applied to existing houses built over 10 years ago, the pitch ofthe first
story roof must be exaggerated in order to meet this 6 foot visible height requirement.
When you do that, it becomes out of proportion and in my case the city required the
homeowner to ask for an exemption based on the fact that the city wanted exemption to
their own ordinance. This is the case where the city already knows that R I is inappropriate
when applied to older homes, yet requires the homeowner to bear the expense of the
exemption. The city should be able to write exemptions into the ordinance or waive the
fee for design review.
~ RI contains privacy requirements for second story decks and views of the neighboring
yards. This requirement makes sense in most instances; however, monster homes built
before R 1 had no privacy requirements and peered down into their neighbor's yards and
living areas. Usually it was the existing residents who had to plant trees and install
window coverings to prevent intrusion from the monster house. However, when that
neighbor wanted to put a second story or deck on his house, it now became his
responsibility under RI to plant more trees and frost his windows so the offending could
be further protected. The RI ordinance should require monster homes built before RI to
share the expense and pain of protecting privacy when new second additions are built
under R 1.
~ The requirements of R I are often required design reviews for interpretation of the
exception. The time and expense for review and interpretation of RI is borne by the
homeowner, not the city. When an ordinance is totally written subject to interpretation, it
should not be the homeowner that bears the expense. The city however seems aloofto the
expense required for design review, such as architectural engineering city and blueprint
fees as well as delays in construction. The city should be more responsive to its citizens
and not encumber them with such unreasonable fees and construction delays.
Robert Levy, 10803 Wilkinson Ave.:
· Said the second story was likely the cheapest way to add square footage to a building, you
reduce the amount of roof that has to be built on the building, you reduce the amount of
foundation that has to go in; at the same time I can remember when the behemoth went up at
the end of our block and that is the way we referred to them and we still do.
· Our house ceilings have this sort of shape, they go up with the roof slant and go straight across
in the upstairs room because the city requires that our houses sort of squat down and not be
obtrusive; but the behemoths the people were paying lots of money for them and most of it was
going for the land they were built on and the net result was that the builders felt that they ought
to have a big house to go on their expensive lot, and I think that is where the problem with the
second stories came in. When you start making it look like a big house things fall apart.
Mark Burns, 345 So. San Antonio Rd., Los AItos, representing Silicon Valley Association of
Realtors:
· Said they support simplification of the RI ordinance; also believe there was a
miscommunication from the time it became ordinance because the way it is written is that the
top floor can only be 35% of the bottom floor which actually produces a ratio closer to 26% in
the top and 74% on the bottom. This limits designers in what they can do with houses; when
literally Y. can be on top and Y. has to be on the bottom, resulting in unattractive houses. It
limits homeowners in what they can do; we want to support a simplified process that we can
get these designs through quicker, save homeowners money; there is always a need and a
reason in the neighborhood where someone needs to expand their home and we want to
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support an economical and easy process for homeowners to do that rather than make things
more complicated and harder to conform to.
· Support changing the ratios back to what former Commissioner Orrin Mahoney said in the first
place, 35/65, not 35% of the bottom floor which produces a much worse ratio than what was
ever intended.
Scott Hughes, 7752 Huntridge Lane:
· Concerned there seems to be a rush to relax some of the present restrictions, specifically some
put into place in 1999.
· Some of this is based on somewhat limited and quite polarized input. There doesn't seem to be
a lot of people in the middle.
· Also concerned there is little focus on fixing some of the existing issues with the looseness of
today's restrictions, specifically in areas of size, privacy and neighborhood impact.
· Concerned why there is a push to maximize home size. What does this say about what we
value in our community?
· Regarding some of the existing input, it is obvious there has been much time, effort and
thought invested in most of the work. On the surface some of the proposals seem fairly minor
and harmless; however, before we can properly improve the ordinance and guidelines we need
to ensure there is accurate, complete feedback on how they are actually working today.
Otherwise it risks reducing the quality of life for many to satisfy the complaints of what could
be a vocal minority.
· Questioned how much feedback has been received from the six to seven adjacent neighbors for
all the home extensions, and how does the feedback compare pre 1999 vs. post 1999.
· Said he felt not enough feedback has been received, and one reason may be that many people
are reluctant to speak out publicly about their neighbors.
· Said he was willing to volunteer time to get some of this vital information; one possibility
being a door to door survey of people who have been affected. Survey needs to focus not on
all the small details, but more importantly on how adjacent neighbor expansion has impacted
their site lines, their privacy and their quality of life. Need to start at a higher level rather than
quibbling over the details first.
· Said he felt this type of broad direct feedback would provide a better assessment and
complement the work that has already been done and better know where the restrictions are too
tight or where they are too loose rather than trying to make everything easier.
· Said he wanted to share his own experience relative to existing issues. Resides in a 1200
square foot single story home on a 6,000 square foot lot. Last year the neighbor diagonally
behind him expanded his home with little or no impact to his neighborhood; this year the
neighbor directly behind is installing a one story addition, well within regulations which will
severely and negatively impact his site lines, privacy and quality of life. The combination of
insufficient setback and a totally unnecessary height is a major issue and is not one or the
other; it is a combination of the two working together. The atypically large amount of rear
facing doors and windows with glass which are above the fence line is a significant privacy
issue in both directions.
· Said words alone could not describe the full impact; he extended an invitation to the
commissioners or staff to come to his back yard to compare the two projects and come back
and state their preference of the two projects, and why.
· He said if they felt this one that is within regulations is reasonable, he would like to hear some
of these case studies.
· Can't fix what has happened in the past but based on the loss and how much more severely
others have been severely impacted, he asked to ensure that these issues are addressed before
anything is relaxed.
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· Need to see how things are working now and make sure all the existing issues are addressed
first and then go forward with some of the relaxations, some of which may be minor.
· Said he discussed expansion options with some of his neighbors; said he would not pursue a
style of expansion that would negatively impact his neighbors; not because he did not need the
space, but because he didn't consider it the right thing to do, and he felt it is something to
consider as a community.
· Said he felt the 1999 changes were long overdue and probably a first step in the right direction;
one which was needed to remind us all that our choices in expanding our homes affect more
than just ourselves; we have a responsibility to consider the impact to the neighbors and the
community.
· Need more improvements in the present system before creating any more heartache and
conflict by loosening the present regulations further.
MaIka Nagel, Camino Vista:
· Have been involved in the process for over a year and been also a participant of the process
and well versed in it.
· Story poles are very expensive; in my case many thousands of dollars, took many months to
put up and stayed up since it was not known how long it takes for the committee to go through
and approve the house; it becomes a major eyesore for the neighborhood to have poles stay up
for months at a time; in my case they had to be strategically placed because of renters in the
house and couldn't risk a liability with poles falling
· In regards to design review, the process is painful, in my case it added 3 to 4 months to the
process and as the gentleman said added substantial cost to the process and gave too much
power to the staff. In my case I had to come back and alter my plans on issues that had nothing
to do with the ordinance at all, it was some arbitrary election to say change this and that; no
thought on the impacts of the outside of the house, or how it impacted the inside of the house.
· Regarding design guidelines, they conflict with the ordinance and the way the city operates
now, they are more important than the ordinance itself.
· The ordinance should be clear, it should be easy to follow and the design guidelines should be
guidelines and not the driver of the project.
· Privacy goes two ways; it is not just the new impacting the old, but also the old impacting the
new.
Dave Russell, 22790 Mercedes Road:
· In the review process on Exhibit A, the matrix of RI regulations; the review process topic for
triggering for RHS hillside regulations, the problem stated in the document is that current
regulations may not protect the hillside in the fashion that the general plan describes. I agree
with that assessment and the option stated in the document, that the Planning Commission
should discuss the issue and determine if the change is warranted, I think a change is
warranted, and you should continue to discuss that. I would volunteer my time for that
· The document called R 1 regulations also talks about RHS and R I review for development on
30% slopes. The intent is to trigger for greater review of development on RI hillside lots.
· Said they should look at what the criteria are for triggering examination of developments and
proposed developments on hillsides, especially those of 30% or greater. Have seen a number of
homes approved on 30% or greater sloped properties in very close proximity to the major
ridgelines. The homes that have been approved and subsequently built, one in particular that
has just been completed, is not consistent with the overall plan, the residential hillsides zone
plan. The construction of it does not fit into the heavily wooded area; does not fit in with other
homes; it is a very large, tall home, worse upon worse it feels that the paint job on the house
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January 26, 2004
was done specifically to make it stand out and not fit in. I would like some more teeth brought
into these things and we should retrigger this.
· Specifically in the document titled residential hillside zones, chapter 19.40.060, building
coverage setbacks and height restrictions, the major point I want to get across, is I propose a
new reduction formula which is called the slope adjustment criteria, so that a 30% or greater
slope requires a 40% reduction in square footage; that reduction is 30% now, I would like to
see the reduction greater than 30% and that criteria and formula be looked at for new trigger
points in terms of this overall approval plan for homes on hillsides. The Hillside Protection
Act does not feel much like a protection act these days. I really encourage you to take a look at
the Hillside Protection Act and how the homes are built in there.
Yvonne Hampton, no address given:
· In favor of the project.
· Said she and her husband in the past remodeled their home and we went round and round with
the city; felt it was sad because they believed in guidelines.
· That is what they should be; sometimes I wonder when there are people in the city are looking
at plans, do they actually drive out to the neighborhood and look at what is there or do they
look at just the guidelines. The arguments go back and forth; and we came in with the
neighbors not long ago trying to tell the city we are in agreement with the neighbors plans and
why are they required to go round and round at considerable expense and time delays in their
desire to change the house. The neighbors were in agreement with what they were doing and
thought it was all right.
· Suggested that people looking at the plans for approval or denial, to look at the sites
themselves; drive around the neighborhood and see if the plans would be appropriate; it might
help facilitate the guidelines for the neighbors and for the people building the houses. The
guidelines are there to help people, not hinder them.
· Recently once again, the go around with guidelines, a person came to our home, frantic
because they want to remodel, no second story, just change the home; they were thrown in
with the requirement to put sidewalks in front of their house and maybe a lightpole; at their
expense in order to do their remodeling. We have been in our neighborhood since 1974 and it
has never had sidewalks; now they are requiring to put sidewalks in the lone house on the
block.
· Questioned what was being done to the residents? Guidelines are supposed to help, not torture
people. Take a drive, go look at the neighborhoods at where the houses are being planned; it
might be helpful for everyone to take a flavor of the neighborhood and help facilitate the real
helpful application of these guidelines for the people of the neighborhood.
Cary Chien, 10583 FeIton Way:
· Welcomed new commissioner.
· Echoed the sentiment people felt, one of privacy, one of overbearing homes; back in 1999 we
did a good job of addressing those; specifically in RI ordinance you will find the privacy
mitigation plan to address privacy; you will also find building envelopes which address the
height issues people are concerned about.
· Having been an applicant, there are three issues I would like the Planning Commission to
address. First one is the second story ratio; it is too limiting and hinders people's ability to put
enough space on the second story to accommodate their family.
· Design review guidelines is a gray area; need a stronger ordinance instead of a stronger
guideline
· Relative to story poles, there are better ways to notice the neighbors, give them a clear picture
of what the neighbors are proposing to do; rather than put up poles that cost too much and give
little information.
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January 26, 2004
· Discussion will take a long time, encouraged the Planning Commission to take their time with
it; and make a good recommendation to the City Council before reaching a conclusion.
Yiton Yan, 20846 Garden Gate Dr.:
· Said first issue is logic; if you allow people to view the second floor for only 10%, the privacy
of the neighborhood will be influenced by allowing that; and once you allow for 10% since
that is going to happen, what is the difference for allowing 100%; there is no difference, but I
can see that 100% is much more advantageous; once you built stairs to the second floor you
have bigger areas that is more economical.
· Secondly, if a person is going to build a house, you allow them for 45% of the capacity
compared to land; if that 40% is fixed, I could see 100% for the second floor because
environmentally you can save a lot of land for grass, trees and from the trees if you grow a lot
of trees, you can improve the privacy for your neighborhood. I go for 100% of the second
floor building.
M.W. Lui, 10430 Stern Avenue:
· Have a 5,000 square foot lot; 3 children.
· Wife wants a master bedroom on second story and 2 children on second story also; want large
backyard.
· The existing RI ordinance does not allow for that; cannot build a master bedroom on the top
with two wash basins and walk in closet and also an II x I I bedroom for each child. The
ordinance needs to be modified to allow that to happen.
Garrick Lee, 18871 Arata Way:
· The city required a light pole on his property; no clear instructions on how to do it.
· Had to pay a $5,000 fee to the city.
· Other cities don't require the homeowner to do that.
Chair Saadati:
. Said it was a different subject matter; recommended speaker follow up with staff for the
ordinance requirement and further clarification.
Mr. Piasecki:
· Suggested that the public hearing remain open anticipating that as the Planning Commissioners
deliberates, the public may later on wish to provide additional input.
Henry Lo, 20944 Fargo Drive:
· Is a developer in the Rancho area; built about 15 homes; has seen the transition from no
regulations to extremely tight regulations on the ratio, main concern is the ratio on the first
floor vs. the second floor.
· Said it rendered his services of providing new homes or remodeled homes difficult to do, as
almost everyone is gone away except himself in Cupertino as a business person.
· Recommended that the ratio be changed to be more reasonable so that ifthe parents are staying
upstairs in the master bedroom they should have at least two rooms for the other children on
the second floor also.
· Each time doing a second floor is difficult; even with a 10,000 square foot lot it is difficult to
have a good design or a reasonable design. Agree with the height restriction and all the offsets
that have been imposed in the recent past, but the second floor ratio is the most difficult part
that is causing problems for many people.
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January 26, 2004
· Said that a more workable ratio would be similar to the Silicon Valley Real Estate Association,
such as a 65%/35%. Said he was not certain what the ratio would be to get at least three
bedrooms for a 10,000 square foot lot. He said it was difficult to design something with the
current regulations.
Jennifer Griffin, 10315 Calvert Drive:
· RI regulations have evolved over a process of time from the years in the county and then
coming into annexation two to three years ago.
· They are going to require a great deal of evolution and they have evolved into the current set
we have now.
· Want people to realize too that Cupertino is not alone in having a changing or very tight set of
building codes. Other cities, Los Gatos, Pacific Groves, Los Altos, all require story poles and
many reviews of property; would not expect less of Cupertino because the homes in Cupertino
are of an equal value to these cities.
· Said that there were a set of story poles on Johnson in Rancho Rinconada; received a letter
from the city stating there would be a design review for the property; she went down and
looked at the plans in the office and they seemed to fit her specs which were height, privacy.
· Said she felt it is a good approach for Cupertino to have story poles, design review, input from
owners of big houses, little houses, two story and one story.
· Said she and her husband live in a small house; one side is blocked by a large house
prohibiting them from getting satellite TV.
· Said that everyone should have input into the RI regulations fitting everyone's needs; it is
good to review them.
· Said she wanted a tight set of building codes.
Les Burnell, Hollyoak Drive:
· Lynwood Acres just went through a whole process, this also is a reasonable spec as part of the
Eichlers, we keep talking about second story windows; there was quite a flap going on and
they came up with anything that is 5 ft or above does not require louvers, these are from homes
where you are looking side by side 5 feet from the fence you can look down.
· My recommendation has been, any windows that are below this require louvers or require
frosted glass, because when you talk about trees, with homes built five years ago, the trees are
protecting nothing, some are falling apart, they are not healthy.
· Relative to story poles, think they are excellent; they give a warning to the neighbors; they
cost, but a small fraction of what a new building or modification is.
· Said he felt the 1999 results have resulted in good architectured homes compared to what it
was before.
Mr. GiIIi:
· Reviewed the first slide shown and said that at a cursory glance it looks as if the percentages
aren't what the ordinance calls for; what you have up there is a total space, is 3375, then you
took 35% of that and said that is on the second story. That isn't what is in the rules, that is
what is referred to as the 35/65, but what is in the rules is 35% of the first floor, total area on
the first floor.
Kwong Tak Chui, 21885 Woodbury Drive:
· He and his wife attend open houses to get ideas on remodeling and see what is going on in the
new houses. Discovered in most cases that the two story house, you can put a master bedroom
there and a tiny little room on the side which serves no purpose; the rest ofthe family members
would be in basement; first story may also have one room. This lifestyle doesn't fit his family.
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January 26, 2004
· Presently live on a Rl 10,000 square foot lot but have no interest to build to the maximum
size, which is 35% or 45% with exceptions; we have no interest to build to 4500 square feet of
home which is too big, interested in high 2000 or 3000 square feet house, but in that square
footage there is no way we can put the master bedroom upstairs and have the children stay
with them; to follow the current Rl rules, the kids have to live on the first floor or tucked away
in the basement.
· Urged the Planning Commission to look at open houses and get a feel of what is going on
because of the current rules.
Susan Louis, 21885 Woodbury Drive:
· Reiterated her husband's comments that they attended open houses to get ideas on remodeling;
family is growing and they don't want to put the kids in the basement but want to have a
reasonable upstairs and don't want to have to build the upstairs to an enormous size to have
reasonable footage upstairs.
· Would like the Planning Commission to review the ratio of the first floor to the second floor,
what is more reasonable.
· Many moved to Cupertino because of the school system which translates to growing families;
how do we deal with that problem and since we cannot put enough bedrooms upstairs and keep
the family together, and especially families with younger children, it is a very difficult
situation.
· Have quite a few mature trees in the yard, and would like to keep them, but in order to achieve
the footage to put the bedrooms I need, I could do a very big one story house and cut down
some of the trees and compromise the privacy of my neighbors because I cut down the trees.
If I built a one story home then I have to cut down some of the big trees which I don't like.
· If the city allows for a more reasonable size upstairs, the overall the size of house could be
slightly smaller for the first floor because you would acquire the desired footage upstairs, and
then would actually be further away from the neighbor's property line and it would provide
more privacy to them.
· With the more recent newer homes development, the phenomena of having a master bedroom
upstairs and maybe a nursery size not big enough to put a single bed, upstairs has an adverse
affect on the property values of Cupertino.
Frank Vernon, 10228 Mira Vista:
· Cannot visualize what the difference is between the current ordinance; have lived here for 30
years and have seen a lot of changes; and the change and what the house would look like.
· Would not want to go back to the 100%; we used to be able to see the mountains around us
across the street, now see nothing but a wall of a house.
· One of the reasons we moved to the neighborhood we could see the mountains and the hills; if
it keeps going we won't see the hills anymore which is sad.
· Comment on the sidewalks; one of our neighbors was required to put a sidewalk in and it
doesn't fit in the neighborhood, nor do street lights; would like to see the requirement for street
lights and sidewalks be stricken.
Thanh Nguyen, 10687 Randy Lane:
· Part of Lynwood Acres, which recently was rezoned.
· Our area has had a ratio increase to 20%; which he feels is not adequate.
· Illustrated photos taken throughout the city, built pre 1990 and after 1999 and some of the
houses in the west San Jose area, which he said were houses that Cupertino residents were
deprived of not being able to build.
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January 26, 2004
· People who live in the San Jose area and go to Cupertino schools, use the library, use every
city service, but have more flexibility in terms of building their houses.
· Said people build the size of house they want to build because they have a need for it; within
reasonable measure the ratio that we impose on the house at the current rate of 35% is not
appropriate for the needs of their family.
Frederick Ty, 10824 Bubb Road:
· Supports application.
· Has a 12,000 square foot lot with a plan to rebuild home, and have instructed the architect to
postpone the submission of the plan pending the outcome of the hearings.
· Said he has a 12,000 square foot lot and yet is having a difficult time putting a modern master
bedroom and two decent bedrooms upstairs. Did not intend to build a monster home but
because of the FAR in the first and second floor, is almost forced to do so in order to get the
upstairs bedrooms.
· Ask for reconsideration of the second floor area ratios, the setbacks.
Steven McGarry, 1106 Steeple Chase Lane:
· Said he was in the center of much construction, two behind his house; single story but have
filled up their lot entirely and brought their homes to his back fence where they are within the
codes of 5 feet but their overhangs are about 4 feet.
· His home has a pool in the backyard and they use it all the time; the neighbors have no yard
now and are impacting the privacy of his as well.
· Have a single story home and have two children and running out of space and would like to
consider to go up to a second story, but wouldn't know how to do it because of the restrictions
in place now.
· The cost of putting in a foundation to today's standards are far more to exceed the value of
actual square footage gained above. The home was built in 1961 and is not cost effective to
actually add on 700 square feet.
· Said he did not understand why you cannot conform the use regulations for all to live with, and
do a design properly that would be aesthetically decent to look at as well, since you allow the
large single story homes to be within the height restrictions; they went up to 4 and 6 pitch roof
which they actually could put a loft up there if they want but they have an open beam ceiling.
· Said he would like a second story and be able to stay in the school district for his children.
Com. Miller:
· Asked Mr. McGarry, in his estimation, what formula or approach would work better that
would allow him to build what he needed.
· How much space is currently on the first floor?
Mr. McGarry:
· Said he had a Hunter design home; the ratio used was more of 60/40; not much more, but it is
more than one master bedroom or one small unusable space with a stairwell leading up.
· Currently have 1190 square feet on the first floor.
· There is an illegal patio room built by previous owners, and he would like to remove it and put
in a new kitchen and expand square footage on the first floor to gain a larger ratio on the
second floor.
· Said he would like to have 1200 square feet on the second floor.
Chair Saadati:
· Asked Planning Commissioners to comment on second story.
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January 26, 2004
Com. Chen:
· Happy to see so many people participate; shows concern about the ordinance and appreciate
you input.
· With so much new input don't know what the decision is going to be; would like to digest the
input.
· Said she concurred most with the input from the Oct. 6, 2002 City Council meeting, what
initiated this whole review, is have the RI accomplish the purpose of the RI, it is a question
that we should all ask ourselves and I believe Mr. Hughes suggested that we go back to the
record to see how many houses have been built since 1999 by using this new ordinance how
does that impact the neighbors as well as the home owners.
· Said the main message heard tonight can be summarized as "how can we address people's
private needs for larger space in the meantime without creating any negative impact to the
neighbors." Secondly, how can we refine and revise the RI to make it suitable for the whole
city which does impact 10,000 homes in Cupertino, including yours and mine.
· Would like to see the survey and specific questions asked, going back to the purpose of the
original RI revision in 1999 and the application of the Rl: How does that impact your home,
whether you are a homeowner or you are on the receiving end of the neighbors building up
next to you; Need staff recommendation on how long the survey would take; What kind of
questions to ask; We should all come back and have the input and the survey results organized
for further discussion.
Vice Chair Wong:
· Would like to hear from the public and get input; do we need to review it; do we need to
modify it; how can we improve the process?
· Said Mr. Gilli did a good job reaching out to the community through the media addressing
letters to past applicants.
· Want further outreach to the public to make sure all concerns are heard; how can we address
them and how can we improve them so that we can have a better process.
Com. Giefer:
· Said it was interesting when the speakers were asked what was an acceptable ratio between
first and second floor, there were not a lot of finite answers; conceptually everyone knows
what it is they want and one of the things that would be helpful in terms offraming the concept
and understanding what precedents we might be setting; what we are looking at, separating
what one could do from what one should do in the future, is reviewing some of the existing
remodel jobs and try to understand what those ratios are. Seven Springs is a good example of
large second floors; if we look at some examples of what these look like today, and really
visualize the impact we might be making in the future, it would be helpful for me as additional
input, looking at the existing home inventory. She asked staff to get information on the FAR
between first and second floor at Seven Springs.
· I think too, I appreciated several people who brought up hillside protection; doing what makes
sense; I heard a lot of people saying they really wanted to do what made sense and what was
right for the neighborhood.
Com. Miller:
· The R I ordinance developed in 1999 came as an outgrowth of concern over monster homes;
the ordinance controls that problem well; it doesn't allow that type of home in the
neighborhood.
· However, the ordinance was a best attempt to address a number of issues with that just being
one of them; it was a best efforts attempt to address the issues as they saw it; as time
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January 26, 2004
progresses and we are coming into the fifth year since that was written, it is appropriate that we
look at the data as suggested and look at how well it is working and make adjustments, and
that is the process we are about here.
· Said he was encouraged that 20 people spoke, but the fact that there is more people here means
it is of interest to you and we need the feedback; we want to find out how well it is working
and fix the areas and would like to have more discussion among the Planning Commission to
see how we proceed to. elicit the input; and want to encourage you if not tonight, send a letter
stating what you would like to see and what additional information you would like to provide.
Mark Roest, 10136 Camino Vista Drive:
· Interested in the idea ofRI being little flexible in terms of business use of the home and the
reason for that is the state of the economy and the large number of people who end up
unemployed.
· Rather than having a blanket prohibition, having a thoughtful process perhaps a charette about
what is possible for encouraging people to do work at home; similar to the mixed use
developments that smart growth is encouraging; it would be a good step forward.
Com. Miller:
· Asked Mr. Roest to expand on what he is looking for that that is not available today.
Mr. Roest:
· Said he understood that one could not run a business in their home in an Rl area. To have uses
that are compatible with the quiet and peace and cleanliness of a neighborhood would make
sense and only when someone is doing something that essentially creates nuisance should it be
required to go offsite, because it is very hard to survive in this economy and to have to go out
and get commercial space in addition to the space in the home.
· Said on his street, there are several homes that are straight up boxes with much more than 35%
floor area on the upper story. If people are going to 3,000 to 4,000 square foot homes, why
shouldn't the land be used effectively, rather than forcing two locations to operate a home and
business. The large firms are laying off and people are going to be in a position to find some
form of income.
Mr. GiIIi:
· Said there was a home occupation ordinance on the website allowing operation of a home
business; called a home occupation, as long as you meet the requirements of the ordinance.
Fu-Huei Lin, 10636 Merriman Road:
· Said when he purchased his house it was at high market, and because the seller had many
offers, he didn't have time to study a lot offactors.
Richard Denesha, 10394 Glenview Avenue:
· Have a problem with lot, 50 x 100, but has a 10 foot easement in the back because of power
lines.
· Could only put in a lap pool if a swim swimming pool was desired; and if the desire was to
build up, would be similar to putting a cupola on top of the house.
· Suggested making a prototype of the house; find out what you need for the master bedroom,
bathroom and bedrooms; tonight nobody suggested anything like that, just said they wanted
more space.
· Find out what the setbacks are going to be; find out what kind of windows to the side and
back; there are the resources to do it.
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January 26, 2004
Chair Saadati:
· Said usually for a house, there is a set of plans, showing elevation of all four sides, plan view,
second roof plan. Asked Mr. Denesha if that was not sufficient in his opinion.
Mr. Denesha:
· Not in this case; the second floor ratio is too small to do anything; resulting in unattractive
houses. On Blaney there are three houses in a row; one is a monster home; another they tried
to add a second floor; and the third should be out in the mountains with a slanted roof on it
with skylights; doesn't fit into the area. The smaller one with the small second floor; if that
had been expanded out 5 feet on each side of the existing second floor room, it would still be
small but it would look a lot better and would give a lot more square footage inside.
· Said the requirement for sidewalks where there were none before was unreasonable.
Vice Chair Wong:
· Regarding sidewalks and light poles, said the City Council has already passed an ordinance
that you can petition the neighborhood. Asked staff to comment.
Mr. Piasecki:
· There is a process where the neighborhood can petition the city, saying we don't want the
improvement, and get a percentage of their neighbors to concur with that, submit the petition
and talk with Glenn Goepfert in Public Works and he can explain the rules for reviewing that.
· If you do not have that exception by the Council in place, you are required and it is standard
practice to require major additions and new homes to provide curb, gutter, sidewalks and
sometimes street lights. The neighbors can sign a neighbor-wide petition, as it is not something
exempted for one lot only. The stafflooks at it to determine ifthere is a safe route to school, is
it a busy street, do we have to have walks only for public safety.
· There is an evaluation process undertaken to bring the issue forward for City Council
consideration. There are some neighbors that do not have certain improvements. It is
understandable why some people seek that.
Hal Morrison, 10425 Moretti Drive:
· Concerned about the house behind his home; many people have expressed sentiment that they
want more space; but I live in a one story house in Ranch Rinconada, and I would prefer that
the neighbor directly behind would build a one story house as well for privacy issues in the
back yard.
· The house behind is a two story and will impact on privacy of his house, peering into his
backyard and his house, with a balcony; the plans have been approved.
· The restrictions that are in place in Cupertino do help existing homeowners in maintaining
certain value in their own house, and that value is privacy.
· Relative to notification process, he said there were notifications, some hearings, the architect's
plan was approved with some modifications.
Mr. GiIIi:
· Noted the balcony was not part of the approved plan.
Chair Saadati:
· Relative to bringing the application back in two weeks, said he felt that two weeks is not
sufficient time to allow staff to be able to gather enough information.
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January 26, 2004
· At the study session it was mentioned to get some infonnation from neighboring cities for
evaluation also; also would be good to get some information for some of the houses already
built to get an idea of what they are looking for; most of the people are asking for flexibility.
· Also need to look at the neighborhood that is pleasant, people enjoy walking on the street; not
sure if changing the ratio will help to accomplish that.
· Main issue remains to get more input and organize the information and bring it back.
Com. Giefer:
· Said she recalled from the General Plan Task Force that there was some primary research done
by the city regarding house footprints, second stories. It was vague, something mentioned
early on and thought they may have some ofthat data already.
Mr. Piasecki:
· Said that he did not think the data was available.
· Could generate examples of people who have gone through the process; staff has some of
those slides and we can get copies or at least outline building plans and show you what they
look like. We can go back pre-ordinance and show you some of those building plans with the
larger floor area ratios and that might help you get a sense and the public on a sense of what
are our acceptable numbers.
· Will provide neighboring city zones, examples of as-builts in the community, Seven Springs
Ranch; summary of the input we received tonight.
· Welcomed Commissioners to provide notes from meeting or send e-mails so that they receive
all the input.
· Said there was mention of a survey; staff would review it if the Planning Commission decides
to go in that direction; it would be simple.
Chair Saadati:
· Added permeable surface; there are regulations relating to water seeping back into the ground.
There is so much building going on and the regulations have changed and how are we going to
address that in the future because it has been an issue.
· People want to put pavers in front of their house, they are not permitted because the water must
seep back in the ground so the water table won't be impacted in the future.
· All the items discussed here in relation to second story ratio to first story, ifthe whole footprint
of the house is made smaller, what impact would it have on the environment.
Mr. Piasecki:
· Staff can bring back a summary of those rules and the applicability, or lack thereof, to existing
homes that are being remodeled. A Public Works staff member will explain that as the
program is fairly complex.
· The purpose tonight was to talk about what the issues are; if a survey is desired, the topics
would have to be fairly specific.
Com. Chen:
· Requested that staff provide for the next meeting a list of properties that was redeveloped or
built since the 1999 ordinance was in place and the neighbors who are impacted by this
particular property.
· Should ask how this project impacts residents in certain areas, and those certain areas should
be categorized into the four large purposes stated in the previous ordinance.
· Said it was her recommendation for the next meeting and perhaps allow three weeks for people
to respond to the survey.
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January 26, 2004
Mr. Piasecki:
· Said staff would bring something back to the Planning Commission and they can decide if they
want to modify it, and then meet in three weeks.
· The Planning Commission can decide what goes out to the block captains and the 2,000
notices.
Vice Chair Wong:
· Referred to the speaker who suggested a prototype, and asked staff if they could ascertain what
percentage would be needed to put a master bedroom plus two bedrooms upstairs.
Mr. GiIli:
· Said they did not have the information on what is the average size of a master bedroom; there
are some people saying they need to have 1200 square feet upstairs, there are some people who
have entire houses less than that. Staff needs direction on what size it should be.
Lisa Warren, 10279 Judy Avenue:
· Since consideration is being given to a survey, think it is important you not forget the need to
include homes that were remodeled or built within the last five years under county standards as
well, since there are areas in the city five years ago were county and those are the neighbors
and homeowners impacted a lot, trying to fight exactly what the discussion is about. If you
ignore those homes that were built and those neighbors living with those homes, you are
missing a big chunk of information because there is that overlap.
· In answer to the question from the speaker who said he wanted about 1600 square feet
downstairs and 1200 square feet upstairs on that 6500 square foot lot, it is 43%, 57%.
Dave Russell, 22790 Mercedes Road:
· Appreciate the comment about the survey and trying to apply some appropriate methodology
to the survey; there are people who experienced developments and/or remodels in the zoning
regulations prior to 1999; there are other people that experienced that in the 2003 regulations;
there are other people like myself who have experienced home constructions and remodels that
were approved and started in the 1999 regulations, and then another set that were approved and
started in the subsequent regulations, the current ones.
· Need to have those people participate in the survey as well. I think we can actually see a
dramatic difference in the two types of housing styles that were approved on those, so I would
like to participate in that survey.
· There has been a lot of discussion about second stories and what percentage of first floor can
be built onto the second floor, either as a new construction or as a remodel.
· Said there was confusion about how to do the math around that and what size second story you
could actually get and what the 35% means as a second story. Asked that it be clarified and
have a matrix showing what the numbers mean.
· He questioned how participatory this process would be; it has been a valuable exercise tonight,
said he would like to see the survey happen and any regulations that happen that could
potentially dramatically impact the quality of life in Cupertino, should be participatory as
well.
Female speaker who spoke earlier:
· In your survey, I would like to make sure you include the homeowners that either remodeled or
rebuilt during the last five years, and make sure you ask the question that if they did not have
the 35% restriction on the second floor, how would they build their house, because I feel that
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January 26, 2004
most owners won't build that close to the property line if the ordinance were different and I
want to make sure those groups were included in your survey.
· Believe that there should be limitations to the percentage that you can build on your property;
based on the overall footage, instead of setting the limitation between first and second floor.
· For a 3,000 square foot home, chasing to have 1500 square feet downstairs and 1500 square
feet upstairs would overall not appear as massive as having 2500 square feet on the first floor
and 500 square feet on the second floor.
· Suggested considering that when setting the percentages in the guidelines.
Com. Miller:
· Said he felt the survey was a good idea; the challenge of a survey is to be as complete and
inclusive as possible as we have heard comments on things that need to be added to the survey.
· The question remains of how much the city can expend in terms of resources in doing this.
Mr. Piasecki:
· Typically in surveys of this type you can go to a professional group who knows how to
structure these, and you are dealing with amateurs and we will do the best we can. We have to
keep it simple and to the point.
Unidentified male speaker:
· What you said about the one story, because a lot of people gave up on two stories because of
the impossible rules. Out of ten builders I knew before 1990 when the law was passed, one
more is left and I can only build one story houses, because anything that is below 5,000 square
feet is not worth trying to get a small head but a big body there
· If you are saying if you have a 5000 sq ft house, when you design the house, you will have a
small head on top with one bedroom and then a big body on the first floor, so everybody has
given up and gone to one story house.
· You have to have a 10,000 square foot house to get a reasonable second story. Anything
below that will look unattractive and have a small head with a big body.
Unidentified male speaker:
· Said he objected to the last gentleman speaker; has a home that is 2100 sq ft and has three
bedrooms upstairs, good size master bedroom, 2 baths and doesn't look like a box, it looks like
a very good home. My suggestion for the Planning Commission is to drive down Rainbow
Drive between Stelling and DeAnza Boulevard and look at the monster home that is there; that
group of people went into orbit and got it stopped; that will tell you why the ordinance was
generated; then the other people live in Rancho Rinconada and look at what happened to those
homes when they had the specifications that San Jose had which some people here would like
to re-implement;just look at it, you don't have to build models.
Ms. Hampton, (spoke previously):
· Said there were never any sidewalks since the neighborhood started in 1955. Referring to the
comment about children being safe; said she raised children in the neighborhood with no
sidewalks, no incidents, no problems with safety, which questions the reasonableness of the
guidelines.
· What is the actual real history of the neighborhood and do we have to make homeowners every
single time a person wants to put a remodel in the neighborhood, petition the neighborhood
again to find out if it is ok not to put a sidewalk in front of their house.
· It wastes time, wastes their time building their home and it repeats the same thing that was
settled in the neighborhood years ago, that it did not need sidewalks.
Planning Commission Minutes
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January 26, 2004
· Said she lived on the corner of Mann Drive, on Oakview Lane, for 30 years and cannot
understand why the sidewalk issue keeps returning. People have to repeatedly do petitions;
there is no safety problem with the children in the neighborhood and the sidewalks.
Om Kalagia, 10164 Adriana:
· Agree with speaker about sidewalks, or any other rule that you want to implement, you should
know first that the neighbors or the community around that want that particular thing,
otherwise it is just implementing on people what they don't want and that is not what we
desire when we purchase the property.
· If the whole surrounding area agrees to a certain law and regulation, you should respect that
and abide by that.
· Different people have different views on what is desirable and what is not desirable; should
have reasonable regulations like Palo Alto.
· People can't remodel because they feel too restricted.
· Have reasonable regulations which makes people's life easier, not more difficult.
Unidentified male speaker, (spoke previously):
· Questioned if the ordinance could entertain something if he were to gain additional square
footage on the second story and was willing to give up some more side setback as far as the
front and back setback so that the privacy of his neighbors is more protected.
Art Daveh, 22356 Hartman Drive:
· Real estate developer and builder.
· Said his dream was to build the city so that other people could have the benefit of the great
city; unfortunately last three or four years the City of Cupertino's rules and regulations
regarding the second story have become tougher; the timeframe for approval of a single home
exceedingly too long for approval.
· It has been four years since he has built anything in the Cupertino.
· A lot of his friends that moved into the city with the same dream to build a beautiful city that
can meet all neighbor's standards, bring in revenue for our schools, and other forms of
revenue, felt betrayed by the Planning Commission in terms of giving the considerations.
· They have all moved to neighboring San Jose and have been building over there; adding to
their school taxes and their schools are improving.
· Due consideration has to be given to this matter that eventually they can return back what
made the City of Cupertino great, having sensible developmental plans, growth in revenue,
growth in housing, affordable and better housing for all.
Carola Elliott, 10128 Lebanon Drive:
· Remodeled her home by adding on 25% because by doing did not have to put in curb and
gutter.
· There are no curbs and gutters on the whole street; the residents don't want them.
· Said she tried to add on more this time because she has a 10,000 square foot lot; does not want
to add on a second story.
· Suggested that if one is allowed to add 45% for the first story, why not make the size of the
second story also a percentage of the lot size, and not just of the first story.
Com. Chen:
· Asked Mr. Devah to elaborate on his comments about too many rules and regulations, and it
takes too long to review, and he felt betrayed by the Planning Commission.
Planning Commission Minutes
23
January 26, 2004
Mr. Devah:
· Said there were too many rules and regulations, just built two houses in San Jose; bought the
land in October and was building the house in December.
· Said he paid $19,000 for city fees and school tax was about the same as Cupertino, but other
city fees were $19,000. Also receive $5,000 back from the $19,000 fee.
· Same size house in the City of Cupertino, those fees were almost $62,000.
· Said his recommendation to the Planning Commission would be to have fees more in line with
the surrounding cities. Builders pass costs down to the homeowners; the houses are no longer
affordable in the City of Cupertino.
· Said that Cupertino is 400% and sometimes $600% more expensive, and when discrepancies
are that great, cannot build in Cupertino as it is not feasible.
Motion:
Motion by Com. Chen, second by Com. Miller, to continne Application
MCA-2003-02, EA-2003-19 for two weeks to review the snrvey qnestions.
(Vote: 5-0-0).
OLD BUSINESS: Covered earlier in meeting.
NEW BUSINESS: None
REPORT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION:
Environmental Review Committee: No meeting held.
Housinl! Commission: No meeting held.
Mavor's Monthlv Meetinl! With Commissioners:
· Com. Miller reported that the Teen Center was open.
· Some discussion of the 4'h of July event.
· Discussion of budget cuts.
· Housing Chairman reported a nexus study to begin; reviewing bids for study on low income
housing.
· Library needs funding to continue additional service levels.
· Mayor stressed the importance of voting for Measure B.
· Bicycle Commission reported on progress of bridge over Mary Avenue.
· New Senior Commission formed; have not had first meeting yet.
Schednle for Mavors Breakfast:
. 7 a.m. on February 17'h at Hobees; Chair Saadati is scheduled to attend; Com. Miller will be
alternate if Chair Saadati is unable to attend.
REPORT OF THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
Mr. Piasecki:
· State ofthe City address February 11 Ih at Quinlan Community Center.
· City Council has set two days for joint study sessions with the Planning Commission to hear
the General Plan Task Force advise the City Council and Planning Commission on what their
recommendations are; set for March I, 5 to 6 p.m., and March 2 from 3 to 6 p.m. The City
Council has a date to talk about the General Plan.