P&R 09-01-94CITY OF CUPERTINO, STATE OF CALIFORNIA
10300 Torre Avenue, Cupertino, CA 95014
Telephone (408) 777-3200
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE
PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
Council Chambers
September 1, 1994
CALL TO ORDER
1. Regular meeting of the Parks and Recreation Commission called to order at 7:03 p.m.
SALUTE TO THE FLAG
2.
ROLL CALL
3. Commissioners present:
Commissioners absent:
Staff present:
Hendrickson, Lohmiller, Hopkins, Buhler (arrived 7:06 p.m.)
Quinlan
Stephen Dowling, Director of Parks and Recreation
Linda Lagergren, Recording Secretary
INTRODUCTIONS
4. None.
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
5. None
OLD BUSINESS
6. Director stated, "The issue before the Commission this evening is to review the specific language in the
proposed revisions to the Park Dedication Ordinance. (Commissioner Buhler arrived at 7:06 p.m.) The most
significant change is the reduction from 50% credit to 25% credit for projects that provide on-site
private recreation. The Director reviewed the remaining proposed revisions to the Park Dedication
Ordinance.
"There are a few glitches that have come up since we've reviewed this. Commissioner Quinlan had
asked the question, that if the minimum requirement was one-acre, what happens with large
developments. The developer is obligated to provide a facility and/or fees commensurate with his park
dedication obligation. If there are 2,000 residents, there is an obligation of six acres. So, the developer
has the option of providing six acres of on-site recreation and getting credit for currently half of that,
proposed twenty-five percent, and the rest in fees. When you look at that, there is a potential problem
for large developments. If you eliminate the turf area and you start to try to increase proportionally the
remaining optional elements, you could get a distorted end product."
"The second issue was brought to my attention by Commissioner Buhler and that is the 1.3 acre
requirement. That says in the optional elements if the developer is going to provide a play apparatus
and a recreation center, then the minimum requirement is 1.3 acres. There was an intent to make the
minimum at least one acre. But it appears that what we inadvertently have done now is discouraged the
developer to put in a play apparatus and a rec building because they have to provide more space if they
do that."
Commissioner Hopkins asked, "How does the City use the money from the fees that are generated?"
PRC #156
Approved
10/6/94
Call to order
Flag Salute
Roll Call
Park
Dedication
Ordinance
credit
section
Director said, "The City is divided into three park zones and the fees generated out of these
developments go toward neighborhood or community park facilities in three different zones. It cannot
be used for maintenance, it can be used for purchase or development only."
Jim Sisk, 19672 Stevens Creek Boulevard #149, Cupertino. "I'm here representing the Forge family.
The Forge family are the owners of a ten-acre parcel located on Homestead Road, westerly of De Anza
Boulevard. We have filed an application to develop the ten-acre property into an apaihnent project of
240 units. The plan has been developed based on the existing ordinance that is in effect. I am hoping
that because I filed and there is no new ordinance that I will be able to continue to process my plan
under the old ordinance. I did want to appear before you to just generally say that the 50% credit has
been an encouragement to the people especially in apartment projects. It has encouraged us to provide
more facilities then we would normally. There are probably only three properties left in the community
that could benefit by a 50% credit as opposed to a 25% credit, us being one of them. I hope if you do
change the ordinance, that I could still qualify under a pipeline requirement, since I've already filed my
application."
Chairman Hendrickson asked, "If the existing ordinance does change, does it effect anybody who has
already applied for a building permit?"
Director Dowling said, "That would be a question for the City Attorney."
Jackie Diller, 2152 Levinworth San Francisco. "I work for Maxim Property Management. We have
several concerns about changing the ordinance. There are basically five concerns with these changes.
First, the reduction in credit discourages the provision of open space by private developers. Second
when you look at the comparison of city's. It is true that alot of city's do have 25% park dedication
credits, but most city's have park dedication fees that are half what City of Cupertino's fees are. Third,
and probably the most important point is that they wanted to delete the turf area as an eligible part of
the credit saying that children do not rely on it for field sports, but instead rely on public facilities.
There is no data or studies to support that conclusion. If a private developer were to propose such a
change it would require an E.I.R. We would think that the same requirements should be imposed on the
public sector. Fourth, in relation to deleting the landscape park quiet like areas, I would think that the
City would want these areas. Fifth, we are the developers of the Cupertino City Center apattments and
we are kind of in a similar situation as Mr. Sisk, where we based our feasibility of the project on the
existing ordinance and we are already in the pipeline of developed plans. We do request that if the
ordinance was changed that our project would be grandfathered in to the old ordinance."
Chairman Hendrickson asked if the E.I.R. question was a concern for this Commission.
Director Dowling replied by saying, '%Io, that is not under your purview. Your role is to basically
analyze the merit of the language from your perspective and experience. Whether or not an EIR is
required would be determined by the Planning Commission. The Environmental Review Committee,
which is the appointed group that takes the first glance at projects has already given a negative
declaration to this, but if there was a desire to do an EIR, Planning Commission or City Council would
make that judgment."
The public input was concluded at this point and brought back to the Commission.
Page 2
Credit
Section
Park
Dedication
Ordinance
(continued)
Jim Sisk
19672
Stevens
Creek Blvd.
# 149 Cupt.
[ackie Diller
Maxim
Property
Management
Commissioner Lohmiller commented, "From the city side of things in trying to achieve equities
throughout the community, the private areas make it more difficult for us. For Commissioners that are
relatively new, part of the discussions in the past have been that the turfed play field in private
residential areas are only for those residents that live there. Depending on the homeowners association
that can impose their own rules, they may restrict the activity of that space. It doesn't become public
area. It's beautiful open space and it makes it nice for that area. It makes it a better community overall
but it doesn't add to the acres. I find that is the problem. That's why it was decided by the past
Commissions to recommend that this be dropped back.. I wouldn't want this to go forward if we have
some glitches in it. I would want it to be re-looked at."
Commissioner Hopkins asked, "With this ordinance, can City Council make adjustments to it, case by
case?"
Director Dowling replied, "You can make adjustments only within the constraints of the ordinance. The
language is up to 50% or up to 25%."
Commissioner Hopkins added, "There isn't a guarantee that the person would get 50% credit."
Director added, "That is correct, they must make findings that there is justification for whatever
percentage is applied."
Commissioner Hopkins said, "So we are just recommending lowering the ceiling. If I were a developer,
I would put these amenities in anyway because occupancy rate isn't as high because of jobs moving out
of the area. I don't really agree with the argument that this would be a disincentive. I also agree with
Dick, that even if one would put in private recreational space, they would still use City parks."
Commissioner Buhler stated, "I hear very clearly the public comment about the people who are already
in process, and I am curious if the staff has considered that in an effective date of the ordinance or the
way that this would actually be implemented."
Director Dowling said, '2qo, we haven't put a target date for implementation. We have had some
general conversations about those that are in the pipeline. Clearly that is a determination that has to be
made by legal counsel."
.... Id
Commissioner Buhler stated, I wou be interested in understanding the impact more precisely that we
would be having on existing projects and that understanding if we have any flexibility in building the
ordinance to take into account those project.
Chairman Hendrickson said, "It would be of interest to find out what happens to those in the pipeline.
Seven Springs was mentioned and originally when I heard this too, that was a classic example. That
was a field that was put in and credit was given and the public was not allowed to use it."
Director Dowling added, "Just a quick point of clarification, it was never intended to be public space,
but it was intended that the residents of that development could use it for active play. Residents of that
development were denied use."
Chairman Hendrickson said, "I think to me that is where I was under a misunderstanding. I think then
that the people who live in Seven Springs did use the fields and that there was an impact on the City of
Cupertino for that use. I would like to see if the Commission is in agreement to go ahead and put this
off until next month and ask if we can go ahead and find out what happens to the projects in the
pipeline, and does this only affect two other properties. Perhaps that would help us."
Commissioner Lohmiller said, "That would be my feeling, I would not want to be a party to anything
that is retroactive."
Page 3
Credit
Section
Park
Dedication
Ordinance
(continued)
Director Dowling added, "I need direction on the two things that I brought up. Is the Commission
interested in an idea that reinstates the turfed play field?"
Commissioner Lohmiller said, "I certainly would be, recognizing that it is a private turfed play field. I
think when it was eliminated, we thought it was the same as a public park. Those things have proven
that they aren't that. They are what the homeowners association deems them to be. I would be willing
to stick it back in, in some form, recognizing that it wasn't what we originally thought it was."
Director Dowling stated, "If that is a consensus, then we will look at that." Chairman Hendrickson said,
"I think that is agreed."
Director Dowling added "The second issue is the 1.3 acre requirement if there is play apparatus and a
rec center. Do you want us to come back with a specific number, or do you have that number in mind?"
Commissioner Buhler added, "I would be interested in hearing your number." Director Dowling said he
would bring a number back let them know why.
NEW BUSINESS
7. Commissioner Hopkins is on the board of the YMCA and because the YMCA is involved in this
perspective situation, Hopkins stepped down and was not a part of the discussion or voting.
Director Dowling stated, "The issue before the Commission tonight is to review the proposal to install a
ropes course facility at McClellan Ranch Park. The Commission will recall that early last Spring, the
Commission gave endorsement to the idea of a ropes course at Linda Vista Park. Mr. Rich Knapp and
some of the people involved in the concept, upon further investigation of Linda Vista, felt that it was
not suitable to their needs and in their view, McClellan Ranch Park would be a much more desirable
location for the ropes course. This issue has been before the McClellan Ranch Task Force on a number
of occasions and I need to report to the Commission their views on it. It was the consensus of the Task
Force that the ropes course concept at McClellan Ranch was not appropriate. They felt that it was
inconsistent with the mission statement and that it was not in keeping with ordinance #710 that
established McClellan Ranch as a rural preserve." Director Dowling reviewed some of their specific
concerns. The consortium that is putting this concept together does have the prerogative of appearing
before you and seeking a recommendation." It was turned over to Rich Knapp to convey the idea of a
ropes course at McClellan Ranch Park.
Rich Knapp stated "The amount of space at Linda Vista Park was limited because of the terrain and
existing structures. The areas that seemed appropriate, after walking the area, seemed very limited.
Upon review of that, we went down to McClellan Ranch Park and spent some time looking there, trying
to keep in mind the nature of the park. The area that seemed most suitable was back in the old orchard
area which aligned with the Blackberry Farm area. We also looked at building the course not in the
trees, but on telephone poles so that there would be minimum impact on the vegetation in the area. We
came out twice and walked the course with the Task Force. We tried to take into consideration their
concerns in building the course. We feel that a local ropes course is very important."
Liz Gallegos, YMCA. "I'd like to clarify why the YMCA would be interested in joining this venture.
The YMCA is about programs that strengthen kids, our families, and our communities. We think that
the ropes challenge course provides this unique opportunity for collaboration between the City, the
schools and non-profit. We spoke before and talked about the leadership, the self-esteem and the
learning that happens through that experience in the ropes challenge courses. It is safe, cost-effective
and it has a healthy respect for our environment. We urge your support and we think that McClellan
Ranch Park is the ideal place for the ropes challenge program."
Page 4
Credit
Section
Park
Dedication
Ordinance
(continued)
Rope Coupe
concept
m McClellan
Ranch Park
Rich Knapp
Liz Gallegos
Rich Knapp added, "We contacted Project Adventure. Project Adventure has built over 1,000 courses
across the United States and they would come out and help plan the course and it would be designed
specifically for the site."
Commissioner Lohmiller asked, "Is this Water District property?" Director Dowling replied, "A portion
of it is." Commissioner Lohmiller asked, "Does it require their approval?" Director answered, "We
have a perpetual lease on it, but it would be appropriate to advise them."
Commission Buhler asked, "What other sites besides Linda Vista and McClellan Ranch have you
explored?"
Rich Knapp said, "We went to Stevens Creek Park. We looked at three different places there. We also
looked at the City of Sunnyvale and the Shoreline Bayland Park area."
Page 5
Rope Course
concept
at McClellan
Ranch Park
(continued)
It was opened up for public comment.
Debbie Jamison, 21346 Rumford Drive, Cupt. "I was a member of the master planning committee for Debbie
Jamison
McClellan Ranch Park. I looked through the master plan and concluded that no stretch of interpretation 21346
would include something like a ropes challenge course at McClellan Ranch Park. Ropes challenge Rumford Dr.
courses are a wonderful thing but their primary purpose doesn't fall within the purview of learning
about natural history, environmental history, and human history of our nature preserve. I hope they find
another area for the rope course but Cupertino's nature preserve is not the appropriate place for it."
Ralph Eddy, 10200 Stonydale Drive, Cupt. "I am on the present Task Force at McClellan Ranch Park. I Ralph Eddy
don't think that a ropes course fits in with the master plan. Everything I have heard about ropes courses 10200
Stonydale
is very positive. I think they are a good thing, It would be very nice if Cupertino had one, but I don't Dr.
think that McClellan Ranch Park is the proper place for it. The ropes course would impinge on the
riparian area. I live about two houses from Varian Park and I would not be opposed to having it there."
Reid Freeman, 1575 S. Blaney, San Jose. "McClellan Ranch Park is one of my favorite places to visit.
I'm there once a week. What these people are proposing to do has its benefits, but it is inconsistent with Freeman1575 S.
the long range goal of the park." Blaney S.J.
Howard Johnson, 22560 Alcalde, Cupt. "I am a resident, a gardener at McClellan Ranch Park, a ~oward
member of Audubon, and I am a member of the Task Force who is implementing the master plan. I Johnson
would like to thank the people who brought this proposal to the table. I am very concerned with the 22560
Alcalde
noise that this could bring. I am concerned about the people who live around McClellan Ranch Park.
My primary concern is habitat. My other concern is what kind of precedent would this set. What would
the master plan be worth if we choose at this juncture not to really follow the direction that it would
provide. I don't believe that this proposal is in keeping with the master plan."
Catherine Sleight, 11074 La Paloma, Cupt. "I am one of the people that was on the original task force Catherine
that came up with the master plan. This is a tough one for me because thirty years ago my mother Sleight
started programs like the ropes course in New York state. From that perspective I'm really for it. Palomal1074La
However, having worked on the committee for McClellan Ranch Park I really have to say that the
preserve aspect does come first. McClellan Ranch Park needs to stay as a preserve."
Roxanne Beverstein, 1061 November Drive, Cupt. "I am a gardener at the community gardens and a Roxanne
master gardener. I have a great respect for the park. I would not like to see anything come into the park Beverstein1061
that would not have the same sort of respect for the land and the habitat." November
Dr.
Maryanna Tubman, Alcalde Road, "I am a gardener and bird watcher. I don't get the sense of putting
telephone poles in a field really promotes an understanding of the environment. The main purpose of
the ropes course could be served on a flat grass park if you are going to have to build walls. I feel that
Mr. Knapp's description of the placement, if you were going to put one at McClellan, it seemed like a
good location in that it would be visually a little less disturbing to people. I do think that there might be
better place for it."
Ralph Riddle, 1061 November Drive, Cupt. "This park is an oasis in a city that is developed. This is a
place that you can go and peace and quiet, hear nature, relax, and see things you just can't see other
places."
Mike Hanison, Cupertino resident. "I appreciate what a ropes course could be. It would be good if we
could have one somewhere. The orchard would be great if we could keep it as an orchard."
Larry Curb, Sunnyvale resident, Principal of Kennedy Junior High. "I heard a lot of reasons why people
might not want a ropes course on this property. I think if we were talking today about having the
gardens, we would be having this same argument, but the gardens are there and now that they are there
we don't want anything else. My concerns are that there is a limited amount of space in this large
suburban area where a ropes course could be put up where there is access to the students in the
community. We don't have the funds to take students on long trips. I think that there is a lot of land
here that needs to be shared. The course will blend in and there will be a great deal of value to the
community. There are lots of reasons not to do it, but there are lots of reasons to do it. I urge you to
consider that there can be a balance here for everyone and we can all work together and serve
everybody's needs."
George Lee, resident of Cupertino. "I am here to speak in favor of the ropes course. I think a ropes
course could be built here that would blend in. I am here as a supporter of the ropes course."
Mary Jane Coombs, 1523 Ashcrofi Way, Sunnyvale. "For a year and one-half I have been a member of
the ropes course through Homestead High School. Nothing I have been a member of expect the ropes
course has given me the opportunity to bond with people of such wide backgrounds and diverse socio-
economic groups. That bonding experience is so important. I believe through my experience in the
ropes course that I have developed a great respect among nature. I think a ropes course is extremely
important to teens these days and we really need a place to have a positive experience and learn with
our peers."
Rich Knapp, "This is a complex issue. McClellan is a special place. There is a delicate balance that
exists between preserving an environment and having kids or people in it. If we don't find and provide
opportunities for kids to interact in a natural environment, they won't develop the values and
appreciation that we would hope they would develop. The chances for negative activities to take place
in what little land we have will increase."
Discussion went back to Commission.
Commissioner Buhler asked, "Is there any other acceptable sites in or near Cupertino for this Ropes
Course?
Rich Knapp said, "In Cupertino, I have not seen one. Linda Vista park if we scaled it way down, you
may be able to build one there. I don't think you could reach all the goals that were established if you
built it there. We looked at Stevens Creek Canyon below the dam. The access just was not reasonable.
We have not explored up the canyon. Access in terms of transportation becomes an issue."
Page 6
Rope Course
concept
at McClellan
Ranch Park
(continued)
Ma~yanna
Tubman
Ralph Riddle
Vlike
Hanison
Larry Curb
George Lee
Cupertino
resident
Mary Jane
Coombs
Rich
Knapp
Commissioner Lohmiller said, "I agree with all the points that have been presented. I think it is
important to our community that we try to do this. I'm not comfortable with it at McClellan. I've been
involved with that park for a long time and I've always questioned its use or lack of use. They took care
of my objections by putting together a master plan committee and I agree with the mission statement of
that plan. Part of that was the use of this area for environmental purposes. The increased use of the park
is important. I think the increased usage has to come from the plan that has been implemented. If we
were to allow use of this in an area that might be of questionable compatibility, I think it would restrict
the use of putting in another activity. In the number of years that I have sat up here this to me is the
toughest one yet. There are two outstandingly good reasons to have activities in these parks. I think the
solution is to somehow get another level of activity looking for a suitable site, whether it be some other
use of Linda Vista or another area of land available might be the Stevens Canyon area. I don't have the
answer. It is an outstanding program."
Chairman Hendrickson said, "I am going to speak in approval of the concept. One of the missions is to
expand community awareness and understanding of natural history and environment. I had the pleasure
of going on the ropes course twice. Youth is the important part here. I've lived above that park for eight
years and I think it very much used exclusively by some people and I think it is wrong. I think this is a
wonderful opportunity to open it up. The people that are have been there have tried to open it up to
youth and it hasn't worked. The reaching out isn't really what the youth want to grab a hold of. Nothing
is forever. Why not give it a chance. Why not give this a try."
Chairman Hendrickson made a motion to approve in concept the Ropes Course at McClellan Ranch
Park. There was no second to the motion. Motion was dead.
Commissioner Buhler said, "I really see this as two competing uses that we are trying to decide on,
both which are great causes. One is working with kids in outdoor education and the other is trying to
preserve something that is in a state that is at least close to its natural state. I don't think you can argue
that one is inherently better than the other. Personally, I can identify greatly with the uses and the goals
of the ropes course. As a new member on this commission, I also have great respect for the work that
has been done before I got here and the amount of work that went in to developing the master plan, the
number of times that it has been reviewed, and the number of places in the records of the City that the
purpose of this piece of land has been made very clear. I have a very hard time casting a vote here that
would fly in the face of all of that work and precedent. I point out that the concept of the ropes course
has come before the commission and we were all very supportive of it and ! stand by that. I am not
prepared at this point to say that this is the location that this commission should recommend for the
course. I agree with the idea that we should continue to look for a location and see what we can come
up with."
Commissioner Lohmiller added, "It is the location at this site that I have the problem with at the Ranch.
I wouldn't have any problem at all with the having it behind the Simms house. That is a setting that it
would work fine in my mind."
Commissioner Lohmiller moved that we not approve the recommendation as presented. Commissioner
Buhler seconded the motion. Vote: Lohmiller and Buhler - aye. Hendrickson - nay. Motion carried.
Director stated that of course staff is available to the consortium if they would like to continue to
explore other sites.
Director stated that Central Coast Section did not submit a written request to have the fees waived. This
item will be continued.
Director stated, "The Commission will recall that the City endorsed the Friends of Stevens Creek Trail
and subsequent to that entered into an agreement for this organization to lease space at McClellan
Ranch Park. The document before you tonight basically identifies what the nature of the endorsement
means. This has the support of staff and has been reviewed by the City Attorney"
Page 7
Rope Course
concept
at McClellan
Ranch park
(continued)
Motion
Motion
CCS waiver
item cont'd
Friends of
Stevens
Creek Trail
Agreement
10.
Ronald Custance said, "We are very appreciative of having not only the endorsement from the city but Page 8
Friends of
the opportunity to enter into an agreement with you to do some of the things that we've been able to do Stevens
in some of the other cities. We look forward to you endorsing this agreement." Creek Trail)
Agreement
Commissioner Hopkins moved that the Parks and Recreation Commission endorse the agreement Motion
between the City of Cupertino and the Friends of Stevens Creek Trail. Commissioner Lohmiller
seconded the motion. All in favor. Motion carried.
Director said, "The item before the Commission, although we don't have a specific location, is to
endorse the concept of a marker at Blackberry Farm indicating the historical significance of Elisha
Stephens. This is funded by private donations and our role is simply to allow the placement of the
plaque.
Commissioner Buhler moved to endorse the suggestion from the Historical Society for placement of a Motion
marker at Blackberry Farm. Commissioner Lohmiller seconded the motion. All in favor. Motion
carried.
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING
11. Commissioner Lohmiller moved and Commissioner Hopkins seconded a motion to approve the minutes
of the August 4, 1994 Parks and Recreation Commission meeting. All in favor. Motion carried.
Motion
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS
12. Director Dowling stated, "I know this won't come as a surprise for those of you who know Chris
but we got some nice compliments of his work in the Family-to-Family program."
MONTHLY REPORTS
13. Director announced that the Highway 85 dedications are coming up. October 15 will be a busy day in Monthly
Cupertino. There will be events all day long. October 19 is when the freeway officially opens, reports
14. Commissioner Hopkins reported on the Volunteer Luncheon at the Senior Center. Commissioner community
Buhler added that he thought it was well organized, well run and he enjoyed just meeting all the contacts
seniors. Commissioner Lohmiller announced the CCS auction and barbecue at Blackberry Farm on
September 10.
MISCELLANEOUS
15. There was no legislative update.
16. There was no report on the Mayor's luncheon.
17. There were no additional staff reports.
ADJOURNMENT
18. Commissioner Hopkins moved and Commissioner Buhler seconded the motion to adjourn at 9:23 p.m.
to the regularly scheduled meeting of Parks and Recreation Commission on October 6, 1994, 7:00 p.m.,
Council Chambers. All in favor. Motion carried.
Motion
ATTEST: APPROVED:
City Clerk Chairperson