P&R 11-03-94CITY OF CUPERTINO~ STATE OF CALIFORNIA
1i¥300 Torre Avenue, Cupertino, CA 95014
Telephone (408) 777-3200
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE
PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
City Hall Council Chambers
November 3, 1994
CALL TO ORDER
1. Regular meeting of the Parks and Recreation Commission called to order at 7:00 p.m.
SALUTE TO THE FLAG
2.
ROLL CALL
3. Commissioners present:
Commissioners absent:
Staff present:
INTRODUCTIONS
4. None.
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
5. None
OLD BUSINESS
6. None
NEW BUSINESS
7.
Hendrickson, Lohmiller, Hopkins, Buhler, Quinlan (7:03 p.m.)
None
Stephen Dowling, Director of Parks and Recreation
Linda Lagergren, Recording Secretary
Colin Jung, Associate Planner
Director said, "Although the Planning Commission has not had the opportunity to get into depth
regarding neighborhood park and open space issues, they have tentatively reviewed the information you
sent them and it did generate some more questions on their part. I would like to go through those issues
again and see if it is consistent with your thoughts. Secondly, we are being asked to identify what are
some of the advantages and disadvantages to private versus public open space. Thirdly, if the open
space should be offered, what kinds of uses would you see the city making, and which of those areas
would you see the city being most interested in. (Commissioner Quinlan arrived at 7:03 p.m.) Director reviewed the
summary of recommendations.
Commissioner Hopkins stated, "I think it covered everything that we talked about. I don't have any
questions except I think we are making an assumption here that we are not going to change E-l's
boundaries or E-2 because of the physical barrier." Director Dowling said, "I think that is an issue that
is still up in the air, where that triangular portion of E-1 ends up, whether it goes to E-2 or whether,
depending upon what happens with the amendment, there is a park opportunity within the Diocese
property. It might be a little premature to say that it is definitely going to E-2."
Commissioner Buhler said, "I have a question, I recall coming to the conclusion about what is stated in
number 1 when we were looking at some of the low density alternatives, but I didn't remember coming
to that conclusion with the high density alternatives. In my mind it was still an open question about
whether we would put a neighborhood park in if they chose one of the developments that had a large
number of units."
PRC#159
Approved
I/5/95
Call~oorder
Salute to
Flag
Roll Call
Open Space
issues
related to the
development
of the
Diocese
Property
Commissioner Quinlan said, "My response to that is you are right from the neighborhood park
standpoint, from the acquisition of land for a neighborhood park that was out." Commissioner Buhler
said, "I agree with that. I wouldn't preclude the possibility of a neighborhood park without that triangle
if the number of residents in the new development were sufficient to warrant it." Director said, "If you
will recall even the maximum number of units would only generate a park need of 2.2 acres. If you
could serve the existing neighborhoods in congress with the new development then a neighborhood
park from your perspective made sense."
Commissioner Lohmiller said, "I'm in agreement with what we have up here."
Steven Haze, San Juan Road, Cupt. "I am definitely in support of the summary of recommendations
and it is also how I remember the discussion. I think you have articulated quite well what really should
be the objective as it relates to open space on the Diocese property. Again, that it is publicly accessible
and that it is owned by the public. The next issue may be who should own it and again I would like to
point out that the city of Los Altos Hills and the city of Palo Alto each do own their own open space
preserve. I hope that later on if the Planning Commission comes back and asks "does this mean that the
city would consider owning some of the property or all of it that is being offered", you could take a
look at that and say it is feasible."
Diana Cooley, 10346-B Alpine, Cupt. "I've been a property owner and tax payer in Cupertino since
1972. In 1985 I discovered the parks that skirt the foothills. Parks are very important to me. The school
yard parks don't do the same thing, it doesn't give you the same perspective. It is important to me to
consider that the property out there be public, or be accessible to the public. The summary of
recommendations looks good at this point."
There was a consensus acknowledgment by commission that it was a summary of their
recommendations.
Director said, "Another issue we want to talk about relative to the Diocese property is the issue of
private versus public and the pros and cons." Director reviewed the pros and cons, private and public,
detailed out in the memo to commission from city planner, Ciddy Wordell. Director stated, "That is a
beginning of a list, you may or may not have other issues to attach to that."
Mike Bruner, "As the project manager for the Diocese proposal and trying to move this forward, our
single biggest concern is trying to put the cart before the horse. What we are trying to do is create a
situation where the public can have ownership and access on 65% of the Diocese property and at the
same time the Diocese can have a development proposal. One of the concerns I have of this body is
specifically how they convey their concerns, questions, and comments to the Planning Commission. I
recognize that in the city of Cupertino, Cupertino Parks and Recreation is not necessarily an open space
property manager. By the same token if the response goes back to the Planning Commission that we
don't want any of it, I can tell you that for a lot of legal reasons there is nobody else that is going to
step up until somebody says this is what can be public and this is what can be developed because there
is a lot of inverse condemnation issues. There are all sorts of issues out there that need to be resolved.
My single concern is that we are putting the cart before the horse by trying to decide who is going to
own the property before we even know if there is going to be any property there which scares a lot of
agencies away from stepping up and even saying that they want it, other then the city. I would caution
you in how you propose back to the planning commission."
Commissioner Quinlan said, "I've had second thoughts. I'm one of the persons that pushed for public
ownership, specifically the city of Cupertino. One of the concerns I have is if we are going to restrict it
from access completely as opposed to very passive uses, I've got a concern about whether any public
agency should own it because the public normally thinks they have a right to access to public
properties."
Page 2
Diocese
property
(continued)
Steven Haze
22681 San
Juan Road
Cupt.
Diana
Cooley
10346-B
Alpine, Cupt
Mike Bruner
Sobrato Dev.
Company
Mike Bruner said, "From my perspective there is no reason to stop any access if it is owned by the
public." Quinlan said, "I thought we had a problem with the low area." Bruner continued, "Trying to
lock people out of that area is probably more detrimental than letting people into the area and posting
signs that they are not to take the frogs. There is a whole difference of opinion there and for this
commission to make a decision on whether or not there should be public access in and around that
supposed frog habitat, you have not even heard any input from any biologists to make that decision.
From all the biologists I've worked with I don't see it as a big problem for the public to go through
there." Quinlan added, "You are suggesting that it is premature for us to think in those terms, but that it
is not premature to accept it as public domain. I think both go hand and hand. If it is something that we
don't want to have access to than I don't think the public should own it." Mike Brunet said, "The only
thing I put forth relative to that whole issue is correct in that if it is not public ownership there will not
be any public access. You are going to force the purchase of all the land around the easements because
you can't police it."
Diana Cooley, "I belong to two trail patrol organizations. There are volunteers out there that value this
property and are willing to put time in to help monitor from a patrol standpoint or trail maintenance.
Keep these organizations in mind as a pool of people to assist."
Commissioner Hopkins asked, "If I have private open space, potentially I could ask that that space be
developed, is that correct?" Director said, "According to the planning director, covenants could be put
on that, that it could not. Commissioner Hopkins continued, "My main concern for public would be
maintenance and operations costs."
Commissioner Lohmiller said, "Under private ownership I would add the term "liability" to trail
easements."
Commissioner Quinlan added, "My only concern is where you are going to have access, regardless of
what kind of access it is, but you want access, then it should be in public domain. But where you don't
want access I'm not so sure it should be in public domain. That is the issue with me. There may be parts
of that open space that we've looked at that would be in public domain and we may have to accept
some of it."
Steven Haze said, "I am also on the board of directors on the Committee for Green Foothills and our
attorney has indicated that with the Dolen case, that recently came down from the Supreme Court that
there is not nexus and that you can't really put constraints and covenants on private property. If it is in
private ownership you won't obtain the benefit from private volunteer organizations that would keep
the maintenance costs down. We have neighboring communities that have been doing this for years."
Director added, "The Dolen vs. Tigard case of last summer did put very strong restrictions on this
nexus issue and public benefit. The assumption under this scenario is that the development would offer
to keep it in open space."
Commissioner Buhler said, "Picking up on what Bob said, I think what was behind your question was
the issue of control of future use for the property. It's clearly a measure that you would apply to both
public and private and you would want to evaluate to what extent you could control future use."
Director added, "I think that was the point that initially this commission leaped to the public ownership
because of the control." Buhler added, "All I am saying is that I am hearing a little ambiguity about
what is the nature and extent of the control that could be obtained under private ownership. I think that
public is pretty clear. So I think that is something to evaluate in more detail. The second question I have
is are there any places where there is public/private cooperation on parcels like this? Is that something
that we should look for that would enable us to get the best of both worlds? What I am saying is that we
may have more alternatives here then appear."
Page 3
Diocese
property
(continued)
Diana
Cooley
Steven Haze
Director said, "The third issue has to do with if there is an offer of public open space, and it has been
described as some of the sensitive areas, which of those areas makes sense for the city to own, and if we
own it what kinds of uses do you envision there." Director showed on an overhead transparency the
various parcels of land in discussion.
Steven Haze said, "The National Park Service has been involved with a comprehensive plan and
env.ironmental impact study regarding the knoll and the historical significance. The value of that knoll
would be a real asset to our community as an interpretive site."
Area A - 6.1 acre - potential public open space.
Commissioner Lohmiller said, "In my opinion that is an impractical piece of property for the city to
own. It certainly makes sense to make it part of the county park or part of the Diocese." It was the
consensus of commission that Area A is more practical as part of the County sphere because of
adjacency.
Area B - 3.2 acre - potential public open space
Commissioner Lohmiller said, "If you are preserving the area you want to keep it in public ownership. I
think it should be part of the whole package." Commissioner Hopkins added, "I don't see any kind of
use visual for B because it is separated from the rest of the property by Cristo Rey. For aesthetic
reasons it would be nice to be left undeveloped. If it means that it has to be a part of the public land,
then I think it should be." Chairman Hendrickson said, "B does not have the common denominator like
A. B stands by itself with the exception of the private development."
Commissioner Buhler said, "D is the most desirable and would provide the greatest public benefit. C is
next because of the environmental benefits. B is next because it's contiguous with C. A is the least
desirable."
Commissioner Hopkins said, "That would be my order with a nod to Commissioner Quinlan's concern
about C in that it is wetland and it is not going to be developed anyway, so what is the benefit of having
it private or public.
Commissioner Quinlan said, "On the basis of trying to preserve open space and access if it is public, I
would take A and E first combined, and I would take D next and C and B after that."
Commissioner Lohmiller said, "From the general public point of view, stepping back from the County,
preserving area E is very appropriate, preserving area A is also important and then in the order of D,
then C and then B."
Commissioner Buhler moved that "our consensus be we rank from point of view of desirability for city
ownership, we rank those parcels as D #1, C #2, B #3, A #4". Commissioner Hopkins amended that
motion to read in order D, C, B, A, and E. Commissioner Hopkins seconded the motion. Commissioner
Quinlan asked, "Are we just assuming that the County is going to get E with this motion?" Director
Dowling added, "It is not guaranteed that the County will take that. That is an indication. Would the
city want that if the county didn't and where would it be in your priorities?" Commissioner Buhler
added, "My motion assumes that the county wants it and gets it and that is why it is ranked #5."
Director said, "Why don't you set that parameter in your motion." Recording secretary reread the
motion as follows: "Based on the premise that the County would assume ownership of E and the
southern portion of A then the Commission's consensus is that the ranking of the parcels for
desirability would be D, C, B, and A." Commissioner Lohmiller mentioned that the word city was
dropped from the motion. Director requested recording secretary reread the motion. "Based on the
premise that the County would assume ownership of E and the southern portion of A the parks and
recreation commission's consensus for city ownership of the parcels for desirability would be D, C, B,
and A." Commissioner Quinlan said "We are isolating A now." Lohmiller said, "Why don't we lump A
in with E." Commissioner Buhler said, "I would suggest that if the consensus of the commission is we
think the county should own A then that should be the next motion." VOTE: Buhler(aye) Hopkins,
Lohmiller, Hendrickson & Quinlan(nay). Motion did not pass.
Page 4
gan Jose
Diocese
property
(continued)
Motion
Commissioner Quinlan moved that "the priority based upon this plan of city ownership would be E, D,
C, B, and A, however it is assumed at this time that the County would be interested in obtaining E and
possibly A, if that be the case, the priority would change to D, C, and B." Commissioner Lohmiller
seconded the motion. Commissioner Hopkins said, "I would have them in different order. I don't think
the city should own E." Commissioner Buhler said, "I think we are being presented with a scenario, and
I think the minute you get away from that scenario you have so many variables. I'm uncomfortable
saying what we would do. The scenario being presented clearly shows that the County is taking E. So I
think that becomes an assumption that we can take and move forward on that basis, clearly stating that
if that assumption changes then they need to come back to know what this commission would say."
VOTE: Quinlan(aye) Hendrickson, Lohmiller, Buhler, Hopkins(nay). Motion did not pass.
Commission Hopkins moved that based on the scenario being presented tonight, not considering the
general areas of interest to Santa Clara County but regarding the remaining areas offered for public
open space, the City ownership preference would be in the following order Area D, Area C and then
Area B. Commissioner Lohmiller seconded the motion. All in favor. Motion carried.
Director said, "The issue before the Parks and Recreation Commission tonight is to identify park
relevant issues in the Heart of the City concept." Director introduced Colin Jung, Associate Planner.
Colin Jung presented the Heart of the City concept to the Commission.
Commissioner Hopkins asked, "In the Heart of the City Plan are there any places for rest areas. Are
there any small nooks that you could sit in a park setting along the boulevard? Is that part of the
landscape plan?"
Colin Jung said, "There are a number of possibilities. Part of the specific plan one of the wish list
features are benches along the Boulevard. Another aspect of it is that the southeast comer of Stevens
Creek Boulevard and De Anza Boulevard (the grassy spot) is proposed to be not a park but a rest area
with a four seasons orchard that would include possibly public art as well as benches and walkways in
that area.
Commissioner Quinlan stated, "At one time the Fine Arts Commission was considering that when a
commercial building was built a certain percentage of money was to be set aside and that particular
owner would develop some sort of art that would have to be approved by the city. Is that a
requirement?"
Colin Jung said, "The city doesn't have any ordinance on its books at this point that requires a
percentage of the construction budget of a private development to be devoted to public art. There are
particular cases, for example the Apple development, where as part of the agreement to approve that
development, that a public art component be included. The Fine Arts Commission is pursuing that
concept of developing an ordinance that would require a certain percentage of the construction value of
a project be devoted to public art. I don't know how actively they are pursuing it, but they are thinking
about, since it is within their purview. The Fine Arts Commission has been pursuing the idea that
instead of buying catalog furniture, that they may be able to work in design commissions to work in
some of this furniture. Whether that will happen or not, still remains to be seen, so we may end up with
public furniture that functions as public art."
Commissioner Quinlan stated, "I agree with the concept and that we don't need another 3.5 acre park in
this area."
Director Dowling added, "This is kind of a first test of a policy statement we added during our General
Plan deliberations (Attachment B, policy 5-53) which talked about "New Residential Development in
Non-residential Areas" and at the time we were drafting this policy we were in throes of some really
shortages in terms of active space, but as Colin pointed out when you have 500 units spread over a two-
mile stretch, a single neighborhood park doesn't seem to be warranted. But it doesn't mean that there
can't be other recreational features as outlined in that policy."
Page 5
San Jose
Diocese
(continued)
Motion
Motion
Heart of the
City Specific
Plan
Pharokh Deboo, 10257 Nile Drive, Cupt. "Although I am here representing myself, I have been for the
last five years on the board of directors of Cupertino Waterfall. I am a very active member of CURB.
The general comment I have is regarding the park design policy, policy 5-47. The new General Plan
calls out for intense density in certain key areas of the city, specifically the City Center. Along with that
one of the concepts that have come up is the concept of pocket parks to balance some of this high
density. We feel that the real low priority that has been given to some areas, like the City Center, for
pocket parks should be escalated to a higher priority. Specific to this application, the Heart of the City
does call out for 1,000 units and an average of twenty units per acre. However, some of the units going
into the City Center have about four times that density. The current application for 120 unit complex is
very close to 80 units per gross acre. We do feel that some areas in that area should be developed as a
pocket park. A lot of residents in this area did buy property adjoining the triangle area open space that it
would become green. We feel that a lot of the density that is going into the Heart of the City Plan is
going to be concentrated in areas such as the Cupertino City Center. We feel that there should be a little
more balance with open space. We try to keep the triangle as open space as much as possible. In terms
of amenities that have been provided in that area, it can be argued that some of the areas can't
constitute public space and I'd like refute some of the claims. The amphitheater has been pointed out
that it constitutes open space but we have not in general been allowed to open access of that land, even
though that property has been given 50% credit. Even though the average density was quoted as 20
units per acre, this area does have intense development. I'd also like to refute one claim made by Colin,
about the southeast corner a t the intersection o f De Anza Boulevard and Stevens Creek Boulevard
where he said there would be orchards. There appears to be only one alternative. There is also a second
alternative for that area to have retail space. The orchard is only one alternative. We hope you will
consider the triangle space as it was originally designated in the 1983 plan and hopefully put some
green over there."
Commissioner Quinlan moved that it is not feasible to provide a neighborhood park on Stevens Creek
Boulevard that could adequately serve all the units. Commissioner Hopkins seconded the motion.
Commissioner Buhler amended the motion to include that we encourage that private development shall
provide recreation amenities consistent with policy 5-53, item 1 of the General Plan. All in favor.
Motion carried.
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING
9. Commissioner Quinlan moved and Commissioner Lohmiller seconded a motion to approve the minutes
of the October 6, 1994 Parks and Recreation Commission meeting. All in favor. Motion carried.
10. Commissioner Lohmiller moved and Commissioner Hopkins seconded a motion to approve the minutes
of the October 19, 1994 Parks and Recreation Commission meeting. All in favor. Motion carried.
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS
11. None
MONTHLY REPORTS
12. Director thanked commissioners who came out to Ghostwalk.
13. There were no community contacts.
MISCELLANEOUS
14. There was no legislative update.
15. There was no Mayor's luncheon report.
16. Director reported on the dedication of the baby grand piano at the Quinlan Community Center and two
upcoming craft faires (Senior Center and Quinlan Center).
Page 6
Heart of the
City Specific
Plan
(continued)
Pharokh
Deboo
10257 Nile
Drive, Cupt
Motion
Motion
Motion
ADJOURNMENT
17. Commissioner Buhler moved and Commissioner Lohmiller seconded the motion to adjourn at 9:20
p.m. to the adjourned regular meeting of the Parks and Recreation Commission on November 28, 1994,
7:00 a.m. McClellan Ranch Park parking lot. All in favor. Motion carried.
Respectfully submitted,
ATTEST:
City Clerk
APPROVED:
Chatrperson
Page 7
Adjournment
Motion