P&R 11-15-01 APPROVED MINUTES
PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
CITY OF CUPERTINO
REGULAR ADJOURNED MEETING
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 1 $ 2001
CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Jelinch called the regular meeting of the Parks and Recreation Commission to
order at 7 p.m.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
ROLLCALL
Commissioners present:
Jeanne Bradford (arrived for second item), Frank Jelinch,
Roger Peng, Kris Wang
Therese Ambrosi Smith reported that due to Commissioner
Bradford's home having a close proximity to the Sports
Center, she has recused herself from discussion of the Sports
Center programming and would join the meeting following
those discussions.
Commissioners absent: Rod Brown
Staff present:
Therese Ambrosi Smith, Director; Richard Gonzales,
Recreation Coordinator; Marie Preston, Administrative
Secretary; Ciddy Wordell, City Planner
Others present:
Lauren Livingston, The Sports Management Group; Leon
Pirofalo, Planning Resource Associates
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING
1. The October 1, 2001 minutes were unanimously approved as written.
COMMUNICATIONS NOT ON THE AGENDA: None
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
Sports Center Programming: Therese requested the Commission, at the end of the
presentations and the public comment, make a recommendation to the City Council
about what they believe the programming for the center should be; before the facility
is designed, the types of programming need to be determined. The Commission was
presented with budgetary data for running different types of programming in a new
facility. They were also given the results of the October 11 Public Workshop on
Sports Center programming. The cost recovery projection potentials for years one
through three were given for three programming options under consideration:
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November 15, 2001
Page 2 of 10
· Option A:
· Option B:
· Option C:
2,725 sq. ft. fitness, aerobics room, two racquetball courts, spa
3,800 sq. ft. fitness, aerobics room, child watch
3,800 sq. ft. fitness, aerobics room, child watch, future gymnasium
Public Comment
Sherm Waldman, 7585 Bollinger Road, stated his support for keeping or increasing
the number of tennis courts. He is opposed to the gym because it may displace a
number of tennis courts. He asked for clarification for the justification of building a
gym.
Edmund Tai, 7802 Festival Drive, stated that the uniqueness of the Sports Center's
large tennis center is attractive to many residents and non-residents in the area. He
does not want the tennis courts displaced. He believes that there will be a loss of
revenue if courts are lost. He stated that the tennis program needs to be reinforced and
not sacrificed. He does support the gym idea.
Tal~hi Saadati, 1153 Elmsford Drive, thanked the Parks and Recreation Department
for the public workshop - "good show." He suggested the Sports Center enhance
their programming in conjunction with what already exists in the community; and
perhaps a collaborative approach with the YMCA would be a good idea. He stated
that at the YMCA, there is a child watch, swimming, aerobics room, and a weight
room. He requested that we strive to increase communication with the YMCA to
develop a partnership to serve the community better, especially the youth. He liked
the idea of a climbing wall.
Linda Zhu, 5647 Glen Haven Ct., and Azusa Karitani, 4838 Rio Vista Ave., stated
that they were OK with any option as long as no tennis courts were displaced. They
believe that the community needs more tennis courts to handle the demand. The
courts at some school sites are in poor condition, where the courts at the Sports
Center are well maintained. Securing a court at a park is difficult due to the high
community demand.
Barbara Huml~hrey, 30+ year resident, stated that the Sports Center has the best
public tennis center in the area; it is better than Mountain View, Cuesta Park, and Las
Palmas in Sunnyvale. She doesn't believe that Cupertino would want to give that up
and does not want tennis courts displaced. She thought it was stated that the new
building would displace two tennis courts, and asked if a gymnasium would displace
two additional tennis courts, or did we mean two total? She stated that with Monta
Vista tearing down their tennis courts, Cupertino is loosing tennis courts. She
supports the building of a gymnasium, but had understood that the cost was
prohibitive. Parking is currently a problem, and a gymnasium will create a need for
more parking.
Therese responded that the intent is to keep the old building until the new one is
finished In order to do that, two tennis courts will be taken out to build the new
building. When the old building is torn down, that space will be available for new
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November 15, 2001
Page 3 of 10
courts. It costs $120,000 to buiM one tennis court. Also, a stand-alone gymnasium
will not work, but in combination with a fitness center that has revenue generating
potential, this option would work out.
Emily Chou, 10597 Felton Way, believes that the tennis center is an important
element of the Sports Center.
Cheryl Vargas, Executive Director of the Northwest YMCA, 20803 Alves Drive,
stated that she and Therese have toured each other's facilities. She stated that the
YMCA is interested in collaborating. They see a tremendous need for a gym;
however, the location at the Sports Center may not be the right place for it. She has a
huge room she would like to renovate and create into a gym. She requested there be
further communication between the YMCA and the City to see how the two agencies
can work together to provide those services for the youth and the teens. She attended
the October 11 public workshop and saw a lot of interest and advocates for youth and
teen programs. She would like to open the door to help meet the needs of the young
families in both aspects and offered the idea of a special membership where people
can access both facilities.
Christine Kao, 1342 Rose Garden Lane, stated that with Monta Vista High School
tearing down its tennis courts, Cupertino does not have enough tennis courts to meet
the young people's needs. She does not support the elimination of any tennis courts
and does not support a teen center because she believes teens will not use it.
Alexander Tai, 7802 Festival Drive, stated that if the City looses tennis courts, his
tennis team would become a casualty; more courts are needed.
Nam Nguyen, 1569 Adolfo Drive, San Jose, staff member on the Cornerstone Proiect
who has been working the City and three high schools, feels that the other teens in the
community that do not play tennis should also be heard. He believes that an addition
of a gym would be a community asset. He likes the idea of collaborating with the
YMCA. Teens in the community need a skate park or other teen-type facilities. He
believes that at the public workshop, the tennis advocates were not welcoming to
other ideas. Also supports the idea of not eliminating any tennis courts.
Sherm Waldman asked clarifying questions regarding the exclusion of two
racquetball courts in Option B. He would like to see the addition of two racquetball
courts. At the October 11 workshop, he felt a bias against racquetball courts. He saw
that there were five dots on the board for racquetball courts and felt that should have
been recognized in the prepared data.
Therese answered that there was a limited amount of square footage. In order to
create a larger fitness room and to create a child watch area, the square footage
came from the racquetball courts. She stated that there isn't an option where you can
add more square footage to create other spaces without giving something up. To add
racquetball courts would take an increase in the budget. The Council approves the
program, so individuals can advocate to the Council about adding more money so
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November 15, 2001
Page 4 of 10
that the building can be larger and incorporate other programs. As far as the five
dots for racquetball, the data gathered was from the written comments left by the
attendees. There was a discrepancy between the dots on the chart and what people
wrote down when they were in their groups. The data used was what the people
wrote. It was felt that there was some confusion about placing the dots on the board.
Commission Questions and Comments:
Wang: Are the teen center, the skate park, and other facilities still options? I don't see
these options listed. Is there any way to add those facilities?
Smith: Those options were thrown out. The climbing wall did not get much interest at
the meeting. What we tried to do was consider a gym, which would be flexible space
for some of these needs. The feedback that we got did not suggest that we should put
in a climbing wall or a teen center. There were many tennis players at the workshop
giving their input. Because of your broader view of community recreation, your
recommendation should reflect whatever you think is best for the community. The
Council is ultimately accountable for what the program is; they will look to you for
what you think is the best recommendation.
Wang: It seems that we have totally utilized the spaces that we have at that site, and I
wanted to hear if the other programs have been totally eliminated from consideration.
If we go with Option C, the only way to make it work is to take away two tennis
courts, there's no other option?
Smith: There are always other options. You can put parking in a structure. You can
put tennis courts on podium parking. When you look at the cost of doing those things,
does it makes sense? It probably makes more sense to light courts and get more play
that way, or take a neighborhood park and add tennis courts. Of all the things we can
add into neighborhoods, tennis courts are probably the least offensive, because they
do not generate a lot of traffic or noise - it's a good use in a neighborhood. There are
ways to make up the tennis. A stand-alone gym does not pencil out, whether it goes
on the Sports Center site or at the YMCA. A gym needs to be built in conjunction
with some other facility. The gym would probably be about five years down the road,
where it ends up can be decided later. There is definitely a need.
Peng: Are there any major differences between Option B and C besides the gym and
displacement of the tennis courts? Is there data to back up the statement that Option
C addresses more of the needs that were identified from the community?
Smith: Option C is Option B with the gymnasium added. The data supporting the
statement is included in the staff report. We know there is a community need for a
gym and we know it won't pencil out if that is all we built, but somewhere down the
road, we may want to add it.
Jelinch: Is there a projection on what the population growth would be, because I am
interested in knowing if the growth is going to increase by 5,000 from new
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November 15, 2001
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annexations, and whether we are going to take that into consideration in expanding
the services to accommodate the additional people.
Wordell: Rancho Rinconada and Garden Gate were really the biggest annexation
areas, so that population increase is already there. Monta Vista may already be more
than half annexed, if not more; and those people might be serviced already since their
proximity is so close to the Sports Center. Any other annexations are not expected.
There are some statistics stating that population increases from new development is
expected to be about 6,800.
Jelinch: The option that has the most attraction for me is Option B because it keeps
the existing tennis courts and adds the child watch program, which is important. All
major sports centers have child watch programs and it is long over due. It increases
the revenue by expanding the fitness area, and it appears to provide the greatest cost
recovery. After the third year, recovery would be almost 100 percent. This data is
based on research of hundreds of similar facilities?
Livingston: Yes, the data gives conservative numbers. We expect the performance to
be at the levels shown, and it should be greater.
Jelinch: With the data given, we might even be able to generate a profit? And with
the profit we could expand other facilities, perhaps build other tennis courts,
racquetball courts, or gymnasium?
Livingston: Yes
Peng: When looking at the data, my personal choice is Option B.
Wang: Our function is to meet the community needs. We should serve all segments
of the population. I would lean more toward Option C, but I would like to see if it is
possible to work around the displaced tennis courts issue. I would leave the technical
details to staff.
Smith: When a program is selected, the architect can start working. If your desire is,
with Option C, to plan for podium parking with tennis courts on top, please make that
motion so that we have a specific recommendation from the Commission.
For clarification, Option C is Option B for the first years, until you have enough
money to build Option C. And Option C just got a lot more expensive by way of
podium parking with tennis courts on top. We would build Option B now, and we
would plan on adding podium parking and a gym in the future. We would design the
building so that the gym could be added and it would have to happen sometime in the
future, if the Council accepts your recommendation, when there is enough money to
put the gym in with some tennis courts on top of parking.
Jelinch: Doesn't a vote for Option C include the additional cost at this time rather
than the future? It doesn't include any of the wiring, utilities, etc?
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November 15, 2001
Page 6 of 10
Smith: We would plan the structure so that the building could be added on, but it
would be within the existing budget.
Jelinch: It seems to me that once you vote on Option C, you've already spent some of
the money to get that gym. Is that correct? Can you back out of it at that point?
Smith: If additional plumbing connections, additional wiring, sleeves in the ground,
etc. are run for future construction, the cost is really minimal if you do it up front. It's
when you have to tear things up later that it becomes expensive.
ACTION:
Commissioner Wang made a motion and Commissioner Peng seconded to
recommend Option C to City Council, with the addition that the tennis courts
are not to be displaced. The motion carried 2 to 1.
RECESS
Commissioner Bradford joined the other members of the Commission at the dais.
o
General Plan: Therese provided an overview of her General Plan update, which she
developed from input received from three Commissioners. She introduced Ciddy
Wordell, City Planner, who introduced Leon Pirofalo from Planning Resource
Associates. Therese explained that the input Ciddy and Mr. Pirofalo receive at this
meeting would be put into General Plan policies. There are three areas where the
Commission needs to make determinations:
· The ultimate purpose for the acreage at Blackberry Farm
· Whether or not the City should acquire park land outside of the city limits
· The use of park fees
Jelinch: Starting with Blackberry Farm, it has historically been thought of as a
conferencing facility. What is the percentage of revenue generation compared to the
cost?
Smith: Last year, it generated $200,000 for the General Fund. It paid its operating
cost and generated an additional $200,000 that went toward the acquisition of it. It
makes about a quarter million a year in profit.
Jelinch: There are so few places where we can generate that kind of money; I hate to
give it up.
Bradford: I think the re-plan of Blackberry Farm gives us a tremendous opportunity
to address what the needs of the future are. That doesn't mean we need to take
everything away that's there and start all over.
Smith: There is a lot of deferred maintenance in the facility. Once we have a plan, we
can start to address those deferred maintenance needs. I don't see it being a real profit
center - more of a self-supporting facility.
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November 15, 2001
Page 7 of 10
Bradford: Because of the re-plan, we have an opportunity to look at the underserved
segments of the community, and turn it into a community facility, as opposed to
something that caters more toward corporate business. The Stevens Creek Trail
alignment through Blackberry Farm/McClellan Ranch area is being considered. This
is an opportunity to address neighborhood concerns of parking, noise, security, etc.
Peng: The statistics show that 90 percent of the use is from non-residents. It would
seem to me that the higher recreational priority is for the City residents. Perhaps
reduce the size of the non-residential use and use some of the acreage and incorporate
it into the master plan.
Wang: Since it appears that we are under serving our residents, we probably should
consider transitioning slowly over 5 to 10 years into more community needs at ·
Blackberry Farm.
Jelinch: What does it mean "life of the bond?
Smith: I believe the life of the bond is nine more years.
Bradford: If we turn Blackberry Farm into a community park and we let go of some
of the revenue, how much money are we talking about?
Smith: There are a number of things that can be moved around. For instance, the
lease on the Blue Pheasant will be up in 2004. It could become a conferencing facility
and we could consolidate more of the moneymaking operation on the Stevens Creek
end with the community park on the other end. What we need is policy direction - do
you want to use all or a portion of those 33 acres to go into your community park
inventory to help with the acres-per-population ratio?
Wordell: You could add wording to say, "Taking into account the financial
implications of this transition..." so that it is clear that that is a factor in what you
want to do.
ACTION:
Commissioner Bradford moved and Commission Peng seconded to direct the
staff to utilize the Blackberry Farm acreage as part of the acres-per-thousand-
population that we have for community parks for the life of the bond and
beyond. The motion passed in favor of the motion 4 to 0.
Jelinch: The next question to be considered is should the city consider land
acquisitions outside the city limits?
Therese described a recent discussion about land acquisition outside the city limits
that had to do with some property on Stevens Canyon Road, well beyond the city
limits, but adjacent to the county park. The property has a potential use for summer
camp programs, and it could generate revenue and would serve both residents and
non-residents. She asked if this was something Parks and Recreation wants to be in
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November 15, 2001
Page 8 of 10
the business of do we want to consider acquisition outside the city limits or do we
want to use our resources within the city limits.
Therese explained that acquisitions usually are opportunistic; it is rare that a city will
go out and condemn land and then purchase it. Anytime a city buys land, the first
question asked is if it is consistent with the General Plan. Cities do acquire property
outside their city limits and it is something that is decided on when developing a
long-range plan if a need is perceived. Therese requested policy direction from the
Commission.
Wang: Concerned about buying land outside the city limit; how far outside the limits
can land be purchased; does a specific site need to be identified?
Smith: As an example, she suggested possible language that might say, "Should a
suitable site come up outside the city limits for another nature preserve, or a camp
site, or a retreat..." She said it would be a very broad policy that would open the door
to the consideration of purchasing land." She went on to say that the Commission
would not identify a particular site.
Jelinch: He gave examples of land owned by other cities, Mountain View and Palo
Alto, which are outside their city limits.
Bradford: Sees the primary responsibility as focusing on the resources within the city
limits, and is not sure it serves the city well to have as a priority to proactively look
for random pieces of property in the Bay Area. But if something does become
available, the city should have the latitude to consider that acquisition. She mentioned
that other opportunities that might come up would be with developers for joint
development of park areas outside the city limits. Policy should not be black and
white.
Smith: Advised that statements be made that if school sites were surplused that there
be some provision for acquiring those parcels. She pointed to the park ratio matrix
that showed that the school acreage is the biggest chunk, 81.85 acres, of park acreage,
and it is land the city does not own; the land is only leased for nine more years. She
does not see schools closing in the near future, but if they did, the acreage would be
important to community recreation and the city would want to acquire it.
Jelinch: Reiterated that she was suggesting the Commission set a high priority on
funding acquisition of surplused school property should it become available, and then
use park fees for those acquisitions?
Smith: Agreed, but stated that if the Commission wants to include facility
development, other than park facility development, that would be up to the
Commission. Stated that developer fees have been used for specific projects. Fees are
used to expand opportunities.
Bradford: Asked if it was reasonable for the fee allocation to be split and create a
reserve that is for acquisition of school property as it became available, with the
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November 15, 2001
Page 9 of 10
balance used elsewhere; Therese agreed. Also, the Commission would look to
Therese to recommend what the percentage of the split might be, and Therese agreed.
ACTION:
Commission Bradford made a motion and Commissioner Peng seconded that
a percentage of the fees be held in reserve for the potential acquisition of
surplus school property, the percentage of which to be recommended by staff.
The motion unanimously passed.
Ciddy stated that General Plan draft will be made available in early 2002. These will
be circulated and study sessions will be scheduled to review the amendments. After
this step, the General Plan will go to the Planning Commission and the City Council
thereafter. Adoption of the plan is scheduled around May or June of 2002.
Ciddy asked the Commission about their level of interest in the trail system and what
kind of priority should it have. Ciddy stated that the trail system element is currently
small, and there is thinking that it should be built up.
Bradford: She answered that trails offer a huge amenity to the community. Trails are
highly aligned to the overall objectives of the city of a more walkable community. It
brings tremendous benefit to the community. The Commission unanimously agreed.
Jelinch: stated that converting the railroad right-of-way to a rail-to-trails system
should be given high priority.
MISCELLANEOUS - NO ACTION REQUIRED
Community Contacts:
Commissioner Wang had talked with the principal of Monta Vista High School about
the tennis courts that were torn down and that the tennis team does not having courts
to practice on. She stated that the high school is looking for courts for two months.
They have been searching for locations, but have been unsuccessful and were hoping
the city could facilitate them at the Sports Center. Therese reported that Don
McCarthy had been in contact with someone from the school district, not the high
school, and suggested it would be better if there were one point of contact. Therese's
understanding was that what we had to offer them was not ideal, that they were
looking at a site in Sunnyvale, and we were waiting to hear back from them. It was
reported that the tennis courts at Monta Vista High School would be rebuilt in one
year. Commissioner Wang said she would contact the school district to check on their
progress.
Commissioner Jelinch asked that a liaison from the Teen Commission be assigned to
the Parks and Recreation Commission. Therese agreed to initiate.
Commissioner Bradford reported that she attended the first Teen Commission
meeting and welcomed them. She likes the idea of working with the Teen
Commission on common issues.
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November 15, 2001
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Commissioner Jelinch asked each member to consider registering for the CPRS
conference in April. Marie will send out information packets.
ADJOURNMENT
Chairperson Jelinch adjourned the meeting at 9:45 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
reston, Administrative Secretary
Approved at the December 6, 2001 regular meeting.