PC 10-11-73 CITY OF CUPERT.INO, STATF. OF CALIFORNIA PC-129
10300 Torre Avenue, Cupertino, Californ�ia Page 1
Teleph one: 252-4505
MINU'L'ES OF THE AATOUILNED REGULAR MEETING Or THE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON OCTOBER li, 1973, IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER, CITY HALL,
� � CUPERTINO, CALIFORNIA
SALUTE TO THE FLAG
Chairman Buthenuth calle�i the meeting to order at 7:38 P.M. with the
Salute to the Flag.
ROLL CALL
Comm. present: Adams (8:10 pm), Gatto, Nellis, 0'Keefe and
Chairman Buthenuth �
Comm. absent: None
Staff present: Director_ of �'lanning and Development Si�k
Deputy City Attorney Killian .
PUBLIC HEARINGS : �
1. CITY OF CUPERTINO: Public Hearing to consider 1973
Comprehensive General Plan.
(a) Stevens Creek Flood Plain
The Planning Director summarized the previous meeting where the Flood
Control District people made a presentation. At that time they were
asked to discuss alternate methods of flood control which they will do
at this time.
Mr. Bill Carlson of the Santa C1ara County Flood Control District said
Mr. R:ichardson was present at the last meeting to discuss one flood
control alternate. He used aeri.al map and cross sections of the flood
plain limits. It varies f.rom 250 feet to 500 feet in width..•
On this flood plain, he said you could permit land fi11 or you could
allow flood proof buildings.
Another alternate is the modified flood plain. Levies could be b uilt to
contain the 100 year flood. Another alternate is a 152 foot right-of-�way
for a typical rock-lined trapezoidal channel. If the Flood Control Distric
wanted to purchase the flood plain, a typical flood pZain would cost
$1,400,00000 for the right-of-way. A modified�plari would cost an additiona
one-half million. The rock-li:�ed trapezoidal channel would cost approxi-
mately two miZlion doll.ars .
PC-129 MINUTES OF THE OCTOBER 11, 1973 ADJOURNED REGULEIR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Page 2
Mr. Carlson answered Comm. Nellis that the purpose of the Stevens Creek dam is
to protect the property downstream. You would have to raise the road to do
this. He said the flood proof buildings have to be designed in the one alternate
to withstand the pressure of the water as well as being waterproof.
• Retarding b asins are another alternative to consider. The disadvantages are
the property upstream could be flooded out and it would not be safe to live
there.
Comm. Gatto asked what the procedure is of the Flood Control District, that
is, what steps are taken, to establish a program to control the flood. Mr.
Carlson said they make a preliminary design study to determine what is the
most desirable method of control and then discuss it with �the peopie involved
as well as with their Board of Directors. They work out a priority system to
� do their work. Usually the developers work with the Flood Control District.
FHA also works with the F1ood Control District. The Planning Director verified
the City and the County through their development process work with the Flood
Control District.
Mr. Carlson was asked what would be tne district's obligation if a property
owner wanted to develop. He said it would be up to the Board of Directors;
they would probably decide on the least costly approach.
Chairman Buthenuth asked when they would have a precise plan in this area.
Mr. Carlson said the Board of Directors would like to have it by the first
of 1974. They will have a meeting within the next three weeks with the
people above Stevens Creek to discuss these matters. Ten years ago the
thought was to just cut clear channels, eut the problem with that is all the
trees go too. Other approaches will have to be discussed.
The Planning Director answered Comm. Q'Keefe that the decision made on this
will not affect the alignment of Stevens Creek Boulevard, b ut it will affect
the kind of crossing.
" Comm. Nellis wanted to discuss possible dam failure. Mr. Carlson said the
general pattern would be the same as the 100 year flood. He added this is
a fairly remote possibility.
Chairman Buthenuth asked for comments from the audience.
Attorney Sam Anderson, representing Louis Stocklmeir, asked if the determina-
tion of the flood plain and the channelization is the sole by-law within the
jurisdiction of the district. Mr. Carlson said they just make recommendation
and the City has the final decision. The district has the power of eminent
domain, however. Mr. Elnderson's question was: What business is this of the
City for a G�neral Plan to determine the flood plain line? Chairman Buthenuth
answered the Planning Commission is discussing the land use element of the
General Pla.n at this time. Mr. Anderson wanted to know who has the b asic
control of the flood channel. Mr. Carlson said they only make the recommenda-
tion to the City.
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Attorney Dan Donovan, 20440 Town Center Lane, Cupertino,�said he was
representing C. J. Sims with the property across from the Horse Ranch.
He asked if the Flood Control Distric* would be purchasing this land.
Mr. Carlson said the property would be appraised and they would recommend
the purchase of the flood plain land. Mr. Donovan presented arguments in
favor of development of this land. He cited Creston and Oak De7_1 Subdivi-
sions as examples where earthen channels were used. He said government
codes say nothirLg about aesthetics or environment in regard to flood
plains.
The Deputy City Attorney said, after further cross-examination, the
district questions, not statements of position are appropriate at this
time.
Comm. Gatto asked in the case where developnent takes place adjacent to
the creek bed, would not the dPVeloper be required to provide the protec- -
tion? Mr. Carlson said they work closely with the cities and with FHA.
They request dedications through the cities via tentative maps.
Comm. Nellis was answered by Mr. Carlson th at the 100 year flocd is used
as a standard by the Corp of Engineers and throughout most of the United
States.
Mr. Louis Stocklmeir, 22120 Stevens Creek Boulevard, Cupertino, reflected
on three quarters of a century of observation of the flooding situation in
this area. He �aid the 100 year flood is tantasy and not based on actual
conditions. If there had been a flaod during the last 300 years it would
have left deep channels. This is not the case. There have been periods
of heavy rainfail where the water has been high. In 1874 the average mean
rainfall was.about 14". Stevens Creek bridge at average rainfall at the
point over the same period is 17". He could not understand the expend�-
ture of monies on this 100 year flood th at is not going to happen. He sai
in 1869 the Guadalupe River and Los Gatos Creek did overflow. The heavies �
rainfall San Jose has had is 30". Mr. Stocklmeir is concerned that i.f the '
dam should fracture and empty itself there would be a 25' to 30' wall of
water coming down that canyon and taking everything with it to the Bay.
He proposed a 2' high embankment 5' outside the channel would be sufficient
In 1911 Regnart Creek overflowed but not Stevens Creek. He said he has
heard nothing tonight about environmental impact. This area has much
historical value. It gives Cupertino its identity.
Comm. Nellis asked Mr. Stocklmeir what the flood control would destroy of
historical value. Mr. Stocklmeir was not prepared to answer at this time.
He urged that the entire area be preserved in its natural state. He
favored the flood plain limited to the upper part of the black line on
the map, but not the red line. Mr. Stocklmeir does not see why they want
to b uild unsightly dikes along the creek except at some very low spots.
He said the experts will not say what the earthquake intensit}� will be,
or when the next one is coming, or what the damage will be. He said he
does not go along with inverse condemnation proposed by the Flood Control
District.
PC-129 MINUTES OF THE OCTOBER 11, 1973 ADJOURNED REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Page 4 , . .
At this point, Chairman Buthenuth called a recess at 9:00 p.m. with the
meeting reconvening at 9:15 p.m.
Mr. Donovan said the Open Space and Conservation Element of September, 1972
adopted by the �ity clearly indicates the City plans to purchase this for
the Stevens Creek park chain and he would like to have this as an exhibit.
I-Ie quoted portions of the land use element statements. He said the Planning
Commission has an inherent conflict in that there is the desire to purchase
this property in addition to contemplating downzoning. He said the purpose
of flood control is to contr�l floods. It is not for land banking, for p arks
or enviror.mental purposes. He sa�d this district is county-wide. If the
property is downzones, you are he aping the cost of this flood control on
these property owners, not spreading it among all the property owners in the
county. He reminded the commissioners that 5 or 10 years ago, the City
approved the Oak Dell subdivision and the Crump dev�lopment, both within
this flood plain. ,
Mr. Donovan answered Comm. Nellis that he recommended the earthen channeliza-
tion or rock-lined trapezoidal channel.
Ray Crump of �Jard Crump Developers, protested the proposal outlined at this
meeting. They have an approved development plan with flood control approval.
Due to circumstances beyond their control they were not able to proceed with
those plans at the time approval was given. He said this sounds like taking
of land for public use. Crump Developers have spent over two million dollars _
on this land so far.
The P].anning Director answered Comm. Nellis that use of the Crump property
would require some type of diking to protect the pronerty. He said the
Planning Commission must decide if they are willing to accept modification
of the flood plain.
Mr. R. D•. Koenitzer, 10060 Phar Lap Drive, Cupertino, said that as f ar as
paying for flood control, he did not see why the people on Mann Drive or
Ainsworth should be asked to pay so that he cculd live on a flood plain. He
supports the f lood plain zoning. He purchased his home fully aware there
ma}- be fl�oding problems. He asked Mr. Carlson what plans there are, if
any, to keep tr.e narrow passage way clear of debris so they don't have block-
age. Mr. Carlson said the district policy is only to maintain that property
, under their�jurisdiction; in this case, it would be up to the State. r1r.
Koenitzer asked what the average tlaw of Stevens Creek is. rfr. Carlson
answered the 100 year flood indicates 6,300 cubic feet per second. The
5 year flood would be 1,700 cubic feet per second. He then e:�plained how
they arrived at these figures.
Ms. Jackie Hall, 10629 Baxter in Crestcn Subdivision, stated the Planning
Commission is charged with pub lic health, sofety and wel.fare. The safety
is understood. She recommended some clear policy statements by the Planning
Commission be made as to how these costs are going to be paid. Open space
zoning is beautiful b ut you run into problems implementing this philosophy.
MINUTES�OF THE OCTOBER 11, 1973 EIDJOURNED REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION PC-129
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Attorney Ctiarles Butters, 100 N. Winchester Blvd., San Jose, said he
was representing the Blackberry Farms. He concurred it is much better
to retain the natural creek than a concrete-lined creek. It comes down
to a matter of cost. He said zoning to a flood plain is the real issue
here tonight. He wanted to know what we are attempting to gain and what
the time frame is.
Mr. Stocklmeir pointed out north of Stevens Creek Road some 500' were
selected in 1890 for the first postoffice site in Cupertino. Eliza •
Stevens had his second residence on the Crump site. He asked Mr. Carlson :
what the peak flow of Stevens Creek was and Mr.�Carlson said he would
have to call him and give him this information from his records at his
office. Mr. Stocklmeir would like an extension of this phase of the
hearings on the basis this r�atter came up all of a sudden and interested
people would like this time to prepare their studies. Chairman Buthenuth �
said he was asking the City to delay the General Plan for two months
which can crEate a hardship on the part of the City.
Attorney Sam Anderson said there is no such thing as flood plain zoning.
The Flood Control District has power of eminent domain. He said the City .
has the power to zone the �roperty. If this area were to be sPt aside
the loss applies not only to the p,roperty owners.but a loss of revenue
to the City. The Deputy City Attorney responded to Mr. Anderson's rema.rks 1 �
about the legality of f lood plain zoning. This has been encouraged by the:�
State since 1957. Provided this commission finds it was in the health, �
safety and welfare of tk�e City, it can be so zoned. Mr. Anderson said �
the City of Cupertino has no power over sanitary services, the elementary
schools, the high schools or the flood control.
Mrs. Jane 0. Baron, 232 Hillview, Los Altos, represented the Loma Prieta
Chapter of tne Sierra Club. They are i.nterested in the question of whethe�+
or not the flood plain is really a downzoning., The possibility of fail- `
ure of the dam bothers her. She believes_the flood plain zone is advan-
tageous for several reasons. At this point she read her prepared state-
ment, and urged approval of the flood plain.
Mrs. Lucien Hertert, San �Juan Road, said there are many reasons for
retaining the natural flood plain. This pr.eserves the natural resources
of rare and unique quality. It p rovides open space. It serves as naturalE
water percolation. Yrovides safety in times of flood. Provicles air �
quality with trees and shrubs, that are already there. It is important to
the health and safety for psychological welfare as well as historical
value. She would be in favor of designating this area on the General Plan
as open space. Any improvements would spoil the value for reasons it was
saved in the first place. She asked if we are going to have a geological
report on the dam. She has read one of our earthquakes recently was
centered under the dam.
PC-129 MINUTES OF THE OCTOBER 11, 1973 ADJOURNED REGULAR PLANNING COriMISSION MEETING
Page 6
Mr. Tom Traemer, 20990 Valley Green Drive, Cupert'ino, wanted to follow the
creek on the map. No problems down ttirough the Deep Cliff Golf Course.
There are two pieces of p roperty, the Kester and the Traemer properties,
that might be down zoned. The Horse Ranch is now a park and at the time
years ago when he planned to develop that Horse Ranch property, he was going
to be required to put a berm along the ereek and leave the trees. He feels
the berm is the answer to the creek adjacent to the Horse Ranch property.
He is not in f avor of downzoning this property.
Mr. Carlson stated the Santa Clara County Flood Control District will imple-
ment the Environmental Impact Report as soon as they come to some decision
on this. He answered Chairman Buthenuth that they would not have to do
anything if this flood plain is used as open space.
Mr. Carlson answered Comm. Nellis that the Flood Control District had
taken into consideration all the points b rought up by Mr. Stocklmeir.
Comm. Adams said he caitnessed firsthand the results of two floods in the
east that were rather devastating. One 200-year old city was innundated.
He personally would be in f avor of providing protection in this area of
Stevens Creek that could be innundated by the 1Q0 year flood.
Comm. Nellis submitted as a part of the record a report made for the
Hillside Subcommittee of the Planning Policy Committee entitled "Environ-
mental and Geological l�nalysis of the Montebello Ridge". She referred at
this mee�ing specif_ically to page 5. She feels it is absolutely necessary
that the Planning Commission looks at some means of protection here. She
said there is good,reason for the Planning Commission to adopt the natural
ch annel. A retention basin may be the answer to protect those homes located
in the flood plain at the present time. She could not consider in good
c�nscience the trapezoidal proposal.
Chairman Buthenuth agreed the natural flood plai:� (black line) should be
adopted. He does believe tnere are some properties in there that might be
developed with f lood control. He said that basically the flood plain is in
our open space e].ement. He would like to see it open space with existing
uses rather than flood plain zoning per se. He could see no problem with
private or public recreation b ut he would like to restrict development in
this area.
' Comm. 0'Keefe asked Mr. Killian in terms of jurisdiction, do we have some
choice as to who would control this. The Deputy City Attorney said the
City has the zoning power in the area, but we do have a conflict in the
law.
Comm. 0'Keefe believes maintenance of control of the district is very
important to the City. Following the natural flood plain is very important.
Unless we do this we are not exercising the necessary protection. He would
like to postpone this and reserve any cor.lment considering the input tonight
at this meeting. There is so much to digest before a decision should be
made.
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Co[nm. Gatto expressed the appreciation to the flood control people for
coming out and gi.virrg their presentation. His �reaction to this decisicn
parallels that of the o*_her commissioners. He feels the more approoriate
de.signation ot the flood plain would be some sort of averlay zoning so the
property owners would know where they stand, but that the basic zoning
, would be spelled out on a Ge:ieral Plan. He was in favor of maintaining
the natural flood plain. He believes in a continuation of Stevens Creek
park cha�n. The Si�s property, the lower Stocklmeir property and the
outcropping of Crump property could be handled on individual b asis. If
° theae properties develop we m�ast make sure they solve the flooding '
problems . �
Comm. Adams would like to see those properties within the black lines
remain as open space.
Ttze Deputy City Attorney said the City of Fremont has very restrictive
flood plain zoning. Comm. Nellis ��ould like to see some of these other
municipality's ordiriances and types of uses granted for these areas.
She is not happy with the modification presented at this meeting. She
would like very much to preserve the natural flood plain.
ADJOU:ZNi��IvT -
Moved by Comm. Nellis, seconded by Comm. Adams, that this meeting be
con�in ued to the next regular meeting on October 29, 1973, Adjournment
was at 11:00 p.m.
Motion carried, 5-0
APPROVED:
/s/ Tohn W. Buthen+ith
Chairman '
ATTEST : �
/s/ Wm. E. Ryder
City Clerk
• .