PC 06-14-73 i .
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� CITY OF CUPERTITIO, STATE 4F CALTFORNIA �C-107
1030� Torre Avenue, Cupertir�o, California Page 1
Telsg�hone: ?52
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MINUTES OF THE ADJOUR.NED REGULAR PIEETING OF THE PLANNING
COMMISSIOI� HEI�D ON JUNE 14, 1973, IN THE COUNCIL
CH�.PfBEP.5, CITY HALL, CUPERTINO, CALIFORNIA
-SALUTE TO THE FLAG �
Chairman Buthenath opened the meeting at 7:37 F.1`Z. with the Salute to
the Flag. �
ROLL CALL �
Commi. Fresent: Adams, Gatto, Nellis, 0'Keef�, Chairman Buthenuth .
Comm. Absent: None
Staff Present: Director of Planning and Development Sisk
• Associate Planner Cowan
Assistant City Attorney Terry
. Assoc�ate Planner Laurin •
• Director of Public Works Viskovich
Senior Technical Plann�r Kramer
Traff ic Engineer Grigg �
Traffic Consultant Don Goodrich .
� Economic Consultants Arnold and Levy
PUBLIC HEARING
1. CITY OF CUPERTINO: Public Hearing to consider 1973
Comprehensive General Ylan. First Hearing continued:
Noting this was a preliminary presentation of work done on the core
area, Mr. Sisk turned the meeting over to Mr. Arnold.
Mr. Arnold introduced himself and his associate, Mr. Levy, and explained
what they had been hired to do for the �ity oi Cupertino. He noted
that the work of evaluating a General Plan from public perspective was
a relatively new� development in the United SCaCes; �udging what impact a
. particular set of alternatives wou�d have on the total community.
� He defined a General Plan as identifying big choices of land uses to
_the community and then trying to make a r�.tional choice among those -
alterr.atives. �
The following exhibits had beea prepared and exhibited to the audience
to aid in their presentation:
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PC-107 MINUTES OF THE JUNE i4 , 1973 ADJQURNED PLAI�'NING COMMISSION MEETING
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1- Chart: Evaluation of Land.Use Alternatives in Core Area
2- Charts: Evaluation of Residential"
Alternatives for Cupertino
Evaluation of Alternative Land Uses �
Planning Evaluation Process
3- Charts ; Fiscal Year 1972-73 � •
. ris,cal Year 1973-74
4- Chart: Summary of Traff ic
5- Chart: Impo'rta�ce of Alternative Land Uses Co Cupertino . •
Union School District
6 and 7 - .
Charts : Traffic - Circulation Charts
Using one of the maps, Mr. Arnold pointed out major areas that had been
discussed.
Red area = lower foothills
Blue area = f il].ing in the Valley Floor
Green area = collection of parcels in core area
The core area was the area under discussion this evening. Mr. Arnold
�pointed out the core area has two problems. What would be the impact
on the total community of Cupertino of a regional shopping center, and
what would be the impact if the center were located in Mariani Mall or
. 'Vallco Park? ' -
:There are over 258 acres in.center part of city that are open for dis-
,cussion. The regional shopping center will take about 50-60 acres and
a very critical question is how much other commercial besides the.
regional shopping center would the city want, or did the city even .
want a regional shopping center?
� Mr. Arnold pointed out other areas that would be included in the dis- �
. cussion and identif ied the.m. He also identified what was meant by
"committed" and "uncommitted" parcels in the Vallco Park area.
Mr. Arnold said the four elements to the evaluation procedure were:
1. Net f iscal impact = cost and revenue (only a part of economic
impact) .
2. Traffic = physical impact on community
3. Distrib�tion of impact = community and neighborhood
4. Social goals = these can be integrated into General Plan
procedure .
r. Levy then took over and presented the fiscal impact of various alter- ,
natives. The alternatives were examined under three•plans: Shopping
center on Mariani property, shopping center on Vallco Park property and
o shopping center.
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MI;�TUTES OF THE JUNE 14, 1973 ADJOURNELI PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING PC-107
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One important factor was that the new state school-finance bill �
eliminates the significance of new development to the tax base.
If the new development occurs, the state proportionately reduces
• its contribution, in effect siphoning off all new property taxes. �
The praperty taxes on a regional shopping center would be $60,000
to the schools and $46,O�J0 to the'city. The revenue to t.he city
from the regional shopping center would be in sales taxes estimated
to be about $1 million aach year.
A major cost of the center would be in police manpower; $80,000 a
year for approximately 100 man hours per week to provide secur_ity. �
The reason fire protection would not be an added cost was there
would be no need for additional manpower. Adequate sprinkler type
systems and safeguards �aould be built into the center, Mr. Levy
pointed out aperating cost is almost entirely people.
Mr. Levy noted the physical impacts are the same in each jurisdiction;
location of center might depend on ;ahat can be dane with other propert
in city. He filled in the chart to indicate impacts on different �
aspects with the alternatives. �
�dith regard to residential alternative on Mariani Mall site,.the
development would house approximately 2,800 people and provide the
city with $5,000 per year, unless it provided parks which would cost
the city an annual $65,000. Mr. Levy said these 2,800 would make up
a].2-13% increase in size of city a:�d the cost for services (mosr_ly
staff additions) would be a 67% increase.
Mr. Levy referred to.how much other commercial activity wou��d be
wanted in Cupertino in the core area, and.discussed the two types
of commercials, strip versus agglomerate. .
Str'ip commercial would generate $330,000 annually in sales tax revenue
for the city. Agglomerate commer.cial would'generate $200,00� a year.
The Planning Co:nmission has indicated their preference for agglomerate.
In speaking of strip commercial, Mr. Levy said there was a 200' wide
s.trip along overall major property or 65 acres of additional co?tunercial
activity. This would still leave about 140 acres to be decided on. �
It was felt that given the estimated grocath over the next 10-15 years,
the number for the city to plan and allocate for would be app�-�ximately�
50 acres. This would mean there are choices that must be made between '
sites and there must be some system of priority upon which to make
these choices. .
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PC-107 MINUT�S OF THE JUNE 14, 1973 ADJOURNED PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING •
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Mr. Arnold then discussed ho�a priorities could be set among the various
pieces of land. (1) Top piece for other c_ommercia�. is Town CerLter area,
. known as Cali property, b�cause of its tie to Town Center. (2) The next
priority would be near to the regional sliopping center. (3) Gther pieces
would then be neighborhood. The;� could not be commercial because the city
must protect the first 25-30 acres as it is critical to the development of
the �ity.
� NIr. Arnold pointed out this is such an affluent area, and there is a gap
between shopping centers which indicates a need for a regional center i.n .
this area. '
It was then demonstrated how there would be no significant difference to
the city fiscally between the three a.lternatives of the regional shopping
ceni:er at Mariani Mall, at Vallco Parlc or no regional center, In answer
to Conlm. Nellis, Mr. Levy explained why. The analysis at this point did•
no*_ include the traffic costs and impact.
Mr. Arno�d then started the traffic summary. Unless there are very high
road costs,ather land uses mean little f iscally to the City of Cupertino
and tne big money earner for cities is commercial. The revenue from the
regional shopping center would be $1 million a year, but it �aould also
generate traffic. •
Using charts that showed number of lanes on major roads and statements
about congestion at major intersections in 1973, Mr. Arnold showed the,.
� different imPacts of the regional center.
The intersections covered by chart were: � �
l. Higiiway 9- Bollinger Road - Stevens Greek �
2. Hightoay 9- Stevens Creek intersection �
3. Highway 9- Stevens Creek to 280
4. Highway 9- 28C ramps
5. Stevens Creek - Highway 9- Wolfe Road
6. Stevens Creek - Wolfe Road - Tantau
7. Tantau Road , �
' 8. Miller Road .
• • 9. Wolfe Road - Stevens Creek - 280
10. Wolf.e Road - 2II0 ramps
11. Pruneridge �
12. Homestead at Wo1fe�Road
13. Homestead at Highway 9
14. 280 - East of j�o]_fe Road
15. 280 - West of Highway 9
1'antau is expected to be constructed ].9i8-79; Highway 85 expe^_ted in
about 7 years.
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MINUTES OF THE JUNE 14 ,].973 L�DJOURNED PLANNI�vG COMMISSION MEETING PC-107
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ProjecCions are for the ZHO Creek-Lawrence Expresscaay int�r-
change to break down no matter what goes in. ' ��
Mr . Don Goodrich , Traff ic consultant , said his f i_gures for Val].co Park
left 55 acres planned for a regional finance center undeveloped, be- �
cause the state has rejected collector and distributor streets needed
for its �3evelopment. The state rejected the plans for fear more
Vallco development would cause a breakdown of traffic. flo�a on Freeway
280.
The charts showed traff_�r- impacts of existing 1973, without shopping
center, 1973-1980 and1981 1995 with the shopping center at the �
alternate sites.
Putting in resi.dential would not substantially change the charts.
At 10:00 p.m. a break was announced, caith the meeting reconvenin� at
10 :15 p .m. ��
Mr. Arnold began the second hal.f of tYie meeting by reviewing basic .
assumptions underlaying traffic. He said the consultants had worked
• under a number of different sets of assumptions. One was because of
the rejection of collector-distributor streets there could be no new
development in Vallco Park beyond committed unti.l problem �aas resolved.
The second was that the traff ic condiCions sha�a net effect of traffic
at either place. The choice seemed to be wr.ere the city wanted the �
traffic generated. .
Mr. Goodrich said the charts rep just the shopping centers on
' alternate locations. Assumed no core development in city except for
regional. center and Town Center property. Another assumption was that
Torre Avenue and overcrossing was put in; also Tantau was extended.
There was also a madification of Wolfe Road interchange and a widening �•
of Wolf e Roac� .
Chairman Buthemith then opened the meeti�tg to the audience,
. Mr. Pat Gibson, Barton Aschman Associates, San Jose�, who did the
traffic analysis for Mariani property, said he had some figures for
. chart which �aere not shown. Comm. Nellis requested this chart be
filled in and copies be sent to the commissioners for study.
Mr. Walter Ward, Vallco representative, said he would like their
traffic analyst to speak as it.was his understanding that without
collector-distriUutor road at present they would handle the hotel, .
Hewlett-Packard and other industrial. He then intr.oduced Mr. Hans
Corve, DeLeuw Cather & Co. '
PC--107 PiINUTES OF TAE JUNE 14, 1973 ADJOURNF.D PLA.NNINU COr�1ISSI0N r1EETING
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� Mr. Corve discussed long and short range studies that �laa been n�ade. He
� said the main topic at this point was the need for Tantaia Foad and the
� s widening of t�'olfe Road. He sa�_d a�.lowances had been made for the widening
� ; of Wol�e Road to comp7_etely take care o.f a11 traff ic that would ever use
; Wo1fe Road �n 1995. Pialcing rwo statements, he said (1) Collector-distributor
j road relieves a regiorial problem. County-wid� traffic will create traffic at
� � iiirersection and cong�stion wi1.1 increase re�;ardless oi tahere center is.
� j•This is a state problem and wil_1 eventually have to be dealt with by the
; state. (2) Vall.ca Parlc �vill nnt c�ngest traff.ic along �Wolfe Road and
� SCevens Creek. Ne discussed what 1.ev�1 of Va17.co d�velopment can �rork
, i with Don Goodrich and city staff and determined Wolfe Road can be widened
G ta 8 or 9 lanes that wil.l handle 1995 traffic without any congestion.
+ Improvements can and taill be made. ' The only �:hing beyoncl �he control of
� Cupertino and Va7.1co Park is the interchange at 280 and Stevens Creek.
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i Under questioning from Chairman as to whether it was their
? intent to widen ti�olfe Road noca if the center �ent into Va11co Park, Mr.
-j Corve said they had no short range plans tor this.
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+ Mr. Goedrich was asked to report on the d�fferences in the two reports.
��1r. Goodrich said there wer� both larid use and facilities to clarify in
� assumgtionso He explained the different plans £or developrrient tha� had-
j been talked about. A detailed•discussion �*as t?�en held on the differences
I in the tr•�o reports, as they effected traffic flow. Mr.. Goodrich said in
his opinion there would be no really flee £low. Alternate roads i:o Wolfe
Road and SCevens Creek wi11 hel� traffic, but it �oi11 still be very heavy
� traffic.
; Chairman ButhenuCh pointed out there �ras a jam up aC Stevens Creek and
? Wolfe Road that had been on,itCed from the chart.
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ir1r. Go�drich said the korst at Wol�e Road would not be as bad as at
� Hi�hway � beca�.ase of volume of traffic concerned. Highway 9 is more of
� an arterial road with more through traffic.
� Mr. Ward said again �t is his undersranding that with the next phase of
' ' Hewlett-Packard, hotel and shopping center, the modi�ication of Wolfe
� Road and Tantau bridge raould handle what is projected now. He also pointed
i out other accesses to the proposed center from Homestead and Stevens
' Creek without getting on Wolfe Road. In ans��er to Chairman Buthe7�uth,
Mr. Flard said they are prspared �a�ith �he shopping' center to provide for
` ultimate number of lanes requireci; the;� are prepared to preserve a strip
; along the freetyay �or collector.-distributor r.oad. He then introduced
i Mr. Byron Larson, of George S. Nolte & Associates, San Jos�, who said
i they had prepared a traff,ic �tudy of intersection o£ Hight�ay 9 and freeway
' I ramps to determine eff.ect of �`lariarii ria1.1 st;oppin� center. First study was
�taithout Torre Avenue atid no upgrading Qf interchange. This doubled amounr
N.INJTES OF THE JUNE 14 ; 1�73 ADJOURNED PI�ANNING COMMISS70N MEETING PC-107
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� of traffic on Highway 9 that forced flow which �aould cause complete �
breakdown. The second part of study was to review study of other
consultants with respect to Highway 9 and point out areas �ahere there
were some unresolved matters. He spoke of levels of. service and ,
levels of degrees of congestion which are dependent on several factors.
Trip generation rate of regional shopping center, how these trips are
distributed and assigned to roadway at peaking of trips and from which
direction. He found inconsistencies in these factors.
Mr.�Gibson then answered Mr. Larson's statements.� Mr. Gibson said �
the plan had never been considered under assumntion that Torre Avenue •
would not go in; this was critical to center. The report Mr. Larson
had studied was two years old and since that time there had been many
site changes made. Based on existing centers of �omparable size and
location,•it was felt the peaking and lane�availability information
was correct.
Comm. Buthenuth suggested if there were these dis.crepancies they
should be corrected and final figures brought before the commission.
Mr. Goodrich answered that none of these points were new to him, but
, he felt it was important that the commission hear them. He felt that
the minor,discrepancies in both reports balanced each other out. The
main business was the General Plan and thinking of general traffic
levels. It was known there would be more traf_fic, it would �be heavy
and how to minimize traffic in�general were the important issues.
Mr. Stuart Clark, Marketing Consultant, said he had been asked to
make a study for Macy's with respect to marketing feasibility. After
considering all factors, it was his recor.unendation to Macy's that
they choose the Mariani Mall for their store, and if they did not
go into Mariani Ma.11 thaC they should not go to Vallco Park. '
Another point Mr..Clark brought out was the surrounding land activity
being important to a shopping center. He agreed the CaTi property was
the center of the town and the addition of Mariani Mall would have the
effect of a whole new town, rather than stringing out along Stevens ,
Creek.
Mr. John Egan, Vica-president of Macy's, then spoke. He noted the
acreage involved is similar, access is similar but the difference of
one mile betcaeera Valley Fair and Mariani Mall would make a significant
- difference. In answer to Chairman Buthenuth, Mr. Egan said they had
not ruled out Vallco Park entirely, but would strongly prefer Mariani.
Mr. J. Stempo, West Coast representative of Federated Stores represent- �
ing Bullocks and I. Aiagnin said he had made his �wn independent survey
and market research based on three things: (1} need for regional
p�-1Q7 MINUTES OF THE JUNE 14, 1973 ADJGURNED PLANNING CON4"IISSION MEETING
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center, (?.) best available site for that center and f3) how they would
fit in that.ceriter. His findings were similar to market surveys as
already expressed and they preferred the Mariani Mall site and had
instructed developer to proceed with Bullocks. They were looking forward
� to serving t people of this area.
In answer to Comm. Nellis, Mr. Stempo said his reasons for preference
were configuration of mall which was much more conducive to their type
of operation. Mr. Arnold asked why being close to Sears would not be a
� plus factor. Mr. Stempo said all things being equal, it would be a plus,
'out things were never equal.
, Comm. Gatto questioned his reasoning for need for center, wonderinQ if
this was based on market absorption capability or service to community.
Mr. Stempo said many things were considered: potential need for depart-
ment store in certain area, number of people, income, competition, road
patterns, etc. Their main concern was of course the monetary success of
the store, but there must be a need in the community for the store.
Mr. Sheldon Gordon� president of Phillip, Lyon and Gordon Co., co-developer
of retail development of Vallco Park� agreed about need for regional center
in Cupertino area. He f.elt there �vas a need to pull traffic from a radius
of 12-15 miles rather tha� 5 miles. He felt concentrating department
store activity was better. He also spoke to parking situation, noting
that parking is the life blood of a shopping center. He �ointed out
Vallco Park has a substantial reservoir of parking areas that can be
used by m�ny factors. Mr. Gordon indicated he had letters fzom Federated
Department Stores indicating their interest in the Vallco Park site. He ,
noted Val,lco Park had a raised mall covering 2000 parking places and
. each of the five stores would be surrounded by parking places.
Chairman Buthenuth then returned the meeting to traffic consideration,
Mr. Arnold agreed that he had heard nothin� to change basic result on the
charts. He then explained how they read the chart of traffic criteria.
Mr. Arnold noted one thing that must be taken into consideration caas
when Highway 85 would be put in. The route of Highway 85 might be a
� parkway from Highway 9 to present freeway. Any delay in Highway 85 operates
against Mariani Mall�si�e. �
Mr. Arnold then referred to public transportation. It will be on a major
corridor and will require stations. He opined that the station for this
area would probably be at Vallco Parlc., and criteria would be to concentrate
. activities at station. Mr. Arnold then advised shopping center at Vallco
Park, freeing Mariani site for other type of develop:�ent, such as residential.
He noted there were many bene�icial options. Vallco Park is committed to
commercial and designed for it and he could not see t���o nodes of high
density commercial in Cupertino.
MIPiUTES OF THE JUNE 14. 1973 ADJOUI2N�D PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING PC-107
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Mr. Gary Stokes, 21724 Regnart Ct., Cupertino, said one important
fact that had been neglected was the fact that Cupertina has good
neighbors and doesn't feel the consultant's suggesL of dumping
all the traffic problem on the edge of the city and forgetting it
was a very goocl one. He noted with regard to traffic rongestion ,
on Stevens Creek and Highway 9, he didn`t find this too objectionable
as these are major through roads;.they had been built for this and
should be used for it. He also noted that exits proposed frorl
Vallco Park�, with the exception of [aolfe Road onto Stevens Creek
Boulevard and �reeway, ended into single-family residential areas.
rfr. Stolces pointed out he had been a major criticizer of traffic
pattern in Va11co Park for many years. He pointed out if public •
transportation station was to be brought into Vallco Park this would
mean more traffic with heavier parking from people getting to and
from station.
Mr. Arnold.spoke to collector-distribution system which would relieve
problem of having to collect autos for people using the system.
Mr. Stokes said Cupertino has never ignored �eighbors and shouldn't
start ignoring them now. �
.In answer to Chairman Buthenuth� it was noted general level of traff ic
will make it uncomfortable for residents along Wolfe Road. With or
withaut regional center, �hey will develop in Vallco Park arid increase
in through traffic will create�problems on Wolfe Road.
. Mr. Avner Naggar, architect, said he had been working on plans for
Mariani Mall complex and was sorry that Mr. Gordon had not been
allowed to show physical plans as he felt these would have been
an important determining factor as to the land use, He noted several
assets, among them that there was covered parking. They had tried to
keep parking away from buildings and shallow with certain bridges
connecting parking to buildings to create safe conditions on both
upper and lower levels of deck. Mr. Naggar.noted they had tried to
compact center both from merchandising and planning viewpoint. Build-
ing of two levels will generate more sales and create more compact ,
center. Both sites he noted� are difficult but the plans they are
proposing are a good solution for a good shopping center.
Speaking of rapid transit, Mr. Naggar felt if a shop�ing center were
put in where you anticipate rapid transit, you preclude bringing it
in because of Lraffic.
His final point was that in di�scussions with staff, he had understood
that consultants were not to make recommendations; t.heir function was �
strictly to look at facts and bring them to the commission. Mr. Naggar
felt in no uncertain terms that Mr. Arnold had shown favoritism.
PC-107 MINUTES OF THE JUNE 14, 1973 ADJOURNED PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
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Mr. Arnold replied they were interpreting facts,as�they saw them.
. Ms. Ann Anger spoke briefly, noting haw lucky we are to have two sites
� worthy of regional shopping center. One thing she would like to point
� out was that at Vallco Park� which everyone was rightly very proud of,
since it is an industrial park, she questioned whether the public should
� be roaming around it because of security reasons.
Comm. 0'Keefe asked if in the develo�ment of Ma.riani Mall being contin-
gent upon extension of Torre Avenue, Chere had been any idea of imminent
. domain regarding Collins Junior High School. Mr. Joe Burke, Bays�lore
properties, said it had been documented fc�r the city and delineated ,
Torre Road as it paralleled the Coltins School road. He had discussed
matters �aith Collins PTA last Monday and met with architect to work out
problems �f road as it relates to C'ellins school. Their solution does
� not change acreage, just the position of road by about 30'. [dill not
have• to take any�ot school property; can develop without it.
� With regard to traffic that Torre Avenue would generate, Mr. Burlce did
� not think Bayshore PropErties would Ue interested in a site that did
not have an adequate approach for generation of traffic.
Mr. Robert Sill, attorney for Mariani Mall interests, said he had
heard r1r. Arnold say he taas coming up with unique approach to General
� Plan, but the uni�ue gart of it seemed to be that Mr, Arnold came up
� with a conclusion completely contrary to what was sho�m by facts,
figures and testimony. �
In rebuttal, Mr. Corve pointed out (1) t�eir parking at Vallco is
close to building, {2) interesting road system with road going under
center wtiich is main arterial_; also peripheral movement of traffic
around center, (3) one level against two levels, (4) Vallco woul.d be
developed in terms of human scala_ and (5) riariani plans are constricted
because of shape of land.
Comm. 0'Keefe noted where some developers are shifting to smaller
� developinents of perhaps 500,OOU sq. ft. Mr, Corve said Vallco Park had
substantial flexibility and could either constrict or expand. Major
thrust is still super-regional centers.
Comm. Buthenuth noted he �,�ould like tc� have Mr. Goodrich include in
traffic study what happens to traffic beyond limitations ot Wolfe Road
and Stevens Creek.' �
Comm. Nellis wanted to know if this concluded the consultants' presenta-
• tions. Mr. Arnold said there werE: road costs and some comments to review
on cllaracter of city and neighborhood impact faced because of pollution
and noise. Also a summarization of distribut�on of impacts and core area.
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Page 11
Ms. Juanita :icI.area asked tl�e cor,l.mission wiien it would advise tt�e
landowners to be prepared to s�eak. riany had spent the whole
evenin� and had expected to be heard. Cliairnan Rutllenutti said
he could not say at just �ahat point any propert}• c•�ould be spoken
� to; the meetings would . just conr_:inue to go iron one aspect to another.
Co*nm, Gatto moved to adjourn at 1:00 a.m. to the next meeting on
Tuesday, June 14, 1973 at 7:30 p.m. Seconded by Comi7. 0'�eefe. �
it was announced meetings w�u1d be held en Tuesday, tti'ednesda}� and
Thursday of nest *.aeek at 7:30 p.m.
rfotion carried , 5-Q
APPROVED:
� /s/�Joh� W. Buthenuth
� Chairman
• ATTEST: . ' g
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/s/ Wm. E. Ryder
City Clerk �
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