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draft minutes 9-22-09CITY OF CUPERTINO 10300 Torre Avenue Cupertino, CA 95014 CITY OF CUPERTINO PLANNING COMMISSION DRAFT MIl~]UTES 6:45 P.M. SEPTEMBER 22, 2009 TUESDAY CUPERTINO COMMUNITY HALL The regular Planning Commission meeting of September 22, 2009, was called to order at 6:45 p.m. in the Cupertino Community Hall, 10350 Torre Avenue, Cupertino, California, by Chair Lisa Giefer. SALUTE TO THE FLAG ROLL CALL Commissioners present: Chairperson: Lisa Giefer Vice Chairperson: Paul Brophy Commissioner: David Kaneda Commissioner: Winnie Lee Commissioner: Marty Miller Staff present: Community Development Director: Aarti Shrivastava City Planner: Gary Chao Senior Planner AICP : Colin Jung Assistant Planner: George Schroeder Assistant City Attorney: Valerie Armento Chair Giefer welcomed the new Assistant City Attorney, Valerie Armento. APPROVAL OF 1VIINUTES: August 25, 2009 Planning Commission meeting: • Correction: Page 6, second paragraph: "ex party" should read "ex parte" September 8, 2009 Planning Commission meeting: • Page 5, "Velagio" should read: "Vellagio" Motion: Motion by Com. Miller, second by Vice Chair Brophy, and unanimously carried 5-0, to approve the August 25, 2009 and September 8, 2009 Planning Commission minutes as amended. WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS: None POSTPONEMENTS/REMOVAL FROM CALENDAR: None ORAL COMMUNICATIONS: None CONSENT CALENDAR: None Cupertino Planning Commission 2 September 22, 2009 PUBLIC HEARING 1. U-2009-04 Use Permit to allow a full bar to operate inside an David O'Mara existing restaurant. Planning Commission decision (Byer Properties) final unless appealed. 10630 DeAnza Blvd. George Schroeder, Assistant Planner, presented the staff report: • Reviewed the application for a Use Permit to allow a full bar to operate inside an existing restaurant building, as outlined in the staff report. • Parking requirement is 185 spaces; currently the center provided 192 spaces resulting in a surplus of 7 spaces; the location is approx. 225 feet from the nearest residential property. • New restaurants adjacent to residential uses require odor abatement systems; however, the Aqui restaurant specializes in organic dishes and does not expect to produce noxious odors, and they do not use high odor oils, nor do they have amesquite-fired roaster. The Planning Commission may waive the odor abatement requirement provided a condition is added that requires the installation of an odor abatement system if odor impacts become a problem in the future. • Building, Public Works, Fire, Environmental Health, and Sanitary have reviewed the plans for the restaurant with the proposed bar and have recommended approval of the project. • The proposed restaurant also complies with the location requirements that the establishment be at least 600 feet away from schools and public playgrounds and outside the immediate vicinity of churches and hospitals. • Staff recommends approval of the application for a Use Permit. Gary Chao, City Planner: • Said that staff would support an odor abatement condition being placed in the future if a problem occurs. Aarti Shrivastava, Community Development Director: • Stated that the applicant has the ability to extend the hours of operation beyond 11 p.m. with a conditional use permit, although it is not part of the project. David O'Mara, Applicant: • Provided a brief background of the Aqui restaurants. He said he would not object to approval of an 11 p.m. closing, but only for Friday and Saturdays, as the restaurant closed at 10 p.m. • He answered Commissioners' questions about the cooking methods used in the restaurant and operation of the restaurant. Chair Giefer opened the public hearing. Jennifer Griffin, Rancho Rinconada resident: • Praised the other Aqui restaurants at other locations, and commented that the other restaurant locations were responsibly run and were family oriented establishments. • Said that the issue of odor abatement equipment has been a major concern in Cupertino restaurants in the past because of close proximity to residential areas; and suggested that because of the history and sensitivity of the issue in Cupertino, it would be a good idea to go ahead with the odor abatement equipment. Chair Giefer closed the public hearing. Cupertino Planning Commission 3 September 22, 2009 Com. Miller: • Said he was comfortable with Item 7 in the resolution which says that if it becomes a problem then they will have to do odor abatement at that time. • Said there were other restaurants with liquor licenses in the area and it has not presented any problems; he recommended the flexibility of staying open until 11 p.m. • Supports the application. Vice Chair Brophy: • Said he agreed with Com. Miller. Com. Kaneda: • Said he supported putting in the odor abatement requirement after the fact if it is required in the future. Said he was comfortable having the bar inside the restaurant as experience shows that having the bar inside the restaurant keeps it a low key atmosphere. The 11 p.m. closing is appropriate as it is the standard restaurant/bar situations. Com. Lee: • Said she did not feel the odor abatement was necessary; the building has always been a restaurant and has not had prior problems; and she was comfortable with not requiring an odor abatement system until it is deemed necessary. Hours of operation 10 p.m. unless the applicant requests 11 p.m. closing. • Pleased that the restaurant is locating in Cupertino; it will appeal to the community; supports the application. Chair Giefer: • Said she supported how the odor abatement equipment was written in; and said she would not recommend that it become standard since the site was unique, and did not abut residential and was different than previous ones put in place. Said she would like to see staff continue with the direction of including it, she agreed in this case that it made sense. • Said she was comfortable with the liquor license in use; recommended the applicant be given the freedom other businesses in Cupertino has, to remain open until 11 p.m. if they chose. She commented that there was a need in the community for post entertainment activities. • Supports the application. Motion: Motion by Com. Miller, to approve Application U-2009-04 per the model resolution. Com. Kaneda added a friendly amendment to eztend the hours of operation to 11 p.m. Com. Miller accepted the friendly amendment. The amended motion was seconded by Com. Kaneda, and unanimously carried 5-0. 2. MCA-2009-01 Municipal Code Amendment for a comprehensive sign City of Cupertino ordinance update. Tentative City Council date: Citywide location October 20, 2009 Gary Chao, City Planner, presented the staff report: • Reviewed the background of the item, stating that in February 2008, the City Council as part of their 2008-09 work program, adopted a review of the sign ordinance in order to make it more business friendly. Public outreach includes Cupertino Courier ads, creation of a city website for showcasing the item; announcements on the City channel, in the Cupertino Scene, and discussions held with Cupertino Chamber of Commerce and the Legislative Action Committee. Notification was also sent to the property owners on the preliminary landmark sign list to inform them that their signs will be looked at and reviewed. A Cupertino Planning Commission 4 September 22, 2009 community meeting in July was also held, with 8 persons attending. • Based on the input received from the community workshop and the City's past experience in working with business owners to address their signage needs, the proposed changes to the sign ordinance are designed to meet the following three objectives: (1) increase flexibility; (2) streamline the approval process; and (3) improve the readability of the document while making it internally consistent an removing redundant language. • He reviewed the highlights of the changes within the three objectives, as outlined in the staff report, beginning Page 2-2. • Relative to increasing flexibility, staff recommendation in the area of redefining how sign dimensions are measured is removal of the wall sign height restriction and a more flexible way to measure sign area. The flexibility in addition to the existing design criteria in the Ordinance will ensure that signs are architecturally proportional with the building and of high quality. • Staff recommendation in the area of Landmark Signs is amending the sign ordinance to allow legal non-conforming signs with a distinctive architectural style to be designated as Landmark Signs. Minor structural enhancements, minor modifications or relocation of the sign within the same general area, following review by the Director of Community Development, may be allowed, provided that the architectural character of the sign is not compromised. • For Blade Signs, staff recommends that pedestrian-oriented blade signs be allowed by the Ordinance. • For Directory Signs, staff recommends that additional flexibility be allowed to display small logos, symbols or insignias on directory signs not exceeding 33% of the sign area of the directory sign. • For Additional Wall Signs on Corner Buildings, staff recommends amending the Sign Ordinance to allow buildings with frontages along a public street and a driveway to be considered corner building and be permitted one additional wall sign. Also, single tenant buildings with more than 5,000 square feet be allowed one additional wall sign. • Staff recommendation for Ground Signs is to allow properties with a minimum street frontage of 100 feet, one ground sign regardless of building setback. • For Logos, Symbols or Insignia, staff recommends that businesses be allowed illuminated logos, symbols or insignia up to 9 feet with a sign permit. • Staff recommends for Additional Portable Signs, that retail tenants with more than 20,000 square feet, be allowed one portable sign, up to 4 feet tall and 2 feet wide, per entrance, up to a maximum of 3 portable signs. One of the signs could be up to 6 feet tall and no larger than 24 square feet, provided that it is not oriented toward a public right-of--way. • Nine other additional changes are outlined on Page 2-7 of the staff report. • In the area of streamlining the approval process, relative to neon/LED signs, staff recommends that approval of minor embellishments in neon and LED be allowed by the Director of Community Development; with significant use of neon or LED in signs to be approved by the Design Review Committee. • Relative to the Sign Program, staff recommends the following changes: Exempt developments with 4 or more tenants from having to obtain a Sign Program; Modify the criteria of the Sign Program to facilitate creative and unique signs; and Allow minor variations from sign regulations provided that proposed variations are consistent with the architectural theme and building design and the proposed sign program will enhance the look and feel of the shopping center. • Improving readility. improve internal consistency and remove redundancy: Various sections of the Sign Ordinance have been reformatted to improve readability. The Ordinance language has been clarified or removed to enhance readability and remove inconsistencies Cupertino Planning Commission September 22, 2009 and redundancy. • Removal of Dle~al SIQIIS in the Public Right-of-Wad Staff recommends that new provisions be added to the Sign Ordinance allowing removal of unpermitted and/or illegal signs location in the public right-of--way without prior notification; sign owners will be notified after sign removal. Cardboard signs or other non-durable materials will be considered "de minimus" in value and will be destroyed without notification. Staff also recommends that a change be made in the number of days that the city must store the removed signs. • Relative to a citizen's comment about the need for bilingual signs, the City Attorney has researched the issue and found that sign content cannot be regulated without violating both First Amendment and Equal Protection rights. The Planning Commission is advised not to make any recommendations relating specifying a particular language for signs. • Staff recommends that the Planning Commission recommend approval to the City Council based on the model resolution presented. Staff answered Commissioners' questions about changes to the sign ordinance. Com. Miller: • Multilingual signs are not only for Asian proprietors who might be interested in advertising in English; it is equally well for English speaking proprietors who might want to encourage Chinese only speaking customers to frequent their shop as well. Is there some way that we could allow for a larger sign area to accommodate two languages on a sign. Colin Jung: • Said the sign ordinance has been loosened in terms of sign height so businesses will be able to more effectively use the facades of their building to accommodate a second language if they so chose within the sign area that is allowed by the elimination of the sign height criteria. Valerie Armento, Assistant City Attorney: • Said that there is nothing that precludes a business owner from advertising in multiple languages and the changes to the sign ordinance do provide for more flexibility with regard to how much copy, etc. they can have on the sign. In a proactive way that addresses the problem; the issue is that the city cannot mandate the dual language. Aarti Shrivastava: • Said she checked to see if they could have separate rules for people who are advertising in more than one language and the answer was "no". Vice Chair Brophy: • On the section dealing with the preservation of certain non-conformning signs, am I correct in understanding that the changes in the ordinance would not require them to keep those signs; this is not the equivalent of a historic preservation clause. Aarti Shrivastava: • Said it does not make a sign historic, but it does take some of these kinds of architectural merit and where before they couldn't even structurally modify them, they can now; but they don't have to keep them. Com. Kaneda: • On the landmark signs, you cannot structurally modify it because it is non-conforming; he said in his opinion none of the signs had architectural merit. The question is, if they are existing Cupertino Planning Commission 6 September 22, 2009 non-conforming, and the sign has fallen into disrepair and it needs to have work done on it just so it doesn't fall down and injure or kill somebody, can the owner at least do that. Aarti Shrivastava: • No, he would have to remove it. Gary Chao: • Said people are hesitant or shy away from exceptions because it cost money and time to go through the public hearing process, going before a committee. Also the public perception; any time they ask for an exception, it has a negative connotation, even though what they are asking for may be reasonable or logical. The cost to file for an exception is $3000 to $4000, taking about 2 months. It doesn't affect places with a streetscape plan; the only rule that may defer it is in the Heart of the City, but has nothing to do with the streetscape. Staff said that if they do not feel there will be much support for an exception, they let people know and leave the choice to them. Aarti Shrivastava: • Relative to criteria for being a landmark sign, if the Planning Commission and City Council think there is merit, the idea is to scout the city. The signs have to be older; a new sign cannot apply for one. If we have missed one, we will look at it, but we don't expect to see many; there are not that many that would qualify. Gary Chao: • If you are less than 50 feet, single row signs are limited to 18 inches; if over 50 feet, and you go up to 24, and thereafter 100 feet; it goes up from there incrementally. The further back you are from the road, the harder it is to read the sign. Colin Jung: • When we looked at all the sign regulations of the cities surveyed, you really have to distinguish when you read the ordinance, some of it, are references to sign copy height, how tall the letters are, and other cities the references to sign height how tall the sign is relative to the grain of the ground. When you eliminate those from the matrix in the staff report, Sunnyvale is the only city that regulates the height of the sign copy. Every other city didn't even have a restriction on that, other than the obvious restriction that it had to fit on the building and there was some restrictions on how large the sign is and just sort of a proportionality of the sign related to the tenant frontage. Com. Kaneda: • Said he had mixed feelings whether or not illuminated signs were a good idea. The examples given were both restaurants; are there many examples of lit signs that are not night establishments, such as restaurants open late at night to attract customers late into the evening. Chair Giefer: • It would be similar to what Semantec used to have on the building facing Highway 9 and it was backlit. Com. Kaneda: • For the most part are we talking about Wahoos and BJs. Aarti Shrivastava: • Starbucks is a good example; they have the circular sign that would be considered a logo. Cupertino Planning Commission 7 September 22, 2009 Com. Kaneda: • These are all places that are open during the evening serving food and trying to attract customers, as opposed to Semantec who has shut down but leaving their sign lit. Aarti Shrivastava: • It doesn't differentiate between restaurants and other uses at this point, but could apply to both. Gary Chao: • The portable signs as it relates to larger commercial users or tenants, for retail everything remains the same as the last update with the exception that portable sign rule relates to retail tenants with more than 20,000 square feet, such as Whole Foods where they can have up to a maximum of 3 signs, one, for each entrance to the building; sizes to be limited to 4 feet tall by 2 feet wide; but one of these signs could be larger, up to 6 feet tall, maximum 24 square feet. • Said there were changes to the ordinance regarding banners. In terms of project identification, temporary banners, instead of only allowing for two small 32 square foot banners, or A- frames, there is a need as developers come in wanting one banner. It is suggested that flexibility be given that people can have either two 32" or one 64" temporary banner. Com. Lee: • What about non-temporary banners for businesses; is there a change for them. Gary Chao: • They are all temporary; there is a section in the ordinance, this is more of a streamline ease of use that have a schedule relating to how many banners a shopping center can have, predicated upon how many tenants the center has. We are taking out the entire schedule; we are saying that because it is hard for Code Enforcement to keep track of these different dates and different number of attendants and how many maximum they can issue; we are saying we are taking that out, but the theory is that because even if there is 10 tenants in the center, not all ten will come in at one time to go through the same precise time to put up their temporary banners; so there is going to be over the entire year, it is going to be disbursed, and will not be concentrated in one area, so the schedule is unnecessary thing to have. To that extent, it is a small change. Aarti Shrivastava: • Said it seemed unreasonable to give it to only three businesses and not to another business that was opening up, since these were temporary. Staff felt if new businesses were opening up and need a banner for a month, they could get it, but they would have to take it down and put up a permanent sign after that. . Chair Giefer: • I would like to follow up on Com. Kaneda's question earlier with regard to the treatment of two different signs that are 36 inches apart; how did staff come up with that recommendation; what was the thinking behind that; please provide some examples. Is another city doing that? Aarti Shrivastava: • An example is a single business would have one sign; if he had two signs, he wouldn't put it on the same frontage. This is to separate signs between businesses; some cities give you a percentage of frontage, some cities separate it by distance; Cupertino has chosen to do that and it is to prevent signs from running into one another between businesses in a strip shopping center. There are examples in very old shopping centers where you have light boxes, which look like one big light box, and staff felt that back in the day, they felt that and it is reasonable; Cupertino Planning Commission 8 September 22, 2009 3 feet between signs is enough even if you have a long sign. Gary Chao: • Wahoo Fish Tacos would be considered minor use of neon and LEDs illuminated signs; with type of trimming, minor embellishments as opposed to the entire sign being composed of LED and neon; but the Commission can help further define if they feel there is some additional clarity needed. Chair Giefer: • Said she shared Com. Kaneda's concern, to keep the skies as dark as possible; and when you see uses of decorative neon, such as the edging on Elephant Bar, you have light spinout into the night sky. She said she could not come up with an idea other than saying you have to turn them all off at a certain time, although that is not the preferable way to move forward. One cannot control the neon light spinout; LEDs, the technology that it is a little more controllable, and it is a different lighting type. It is more energy efficient and it is preferable in terms of not lighting up the sky, but we cannot regulate the people use, the technology vs. another comparable technology. Perhaps in the sign ordinance, one of the things to be considered is saying that illuminated signs can only be illuminated when the business is open. Valerie Armento, Assistant City Attorney: • Directed the Commissions' attention to Page 2-141 which shows the existing language and the strikeouts, some of those conditions are already there. In Section 17.24.190, it states that if it is not necessary to the security lighting of the business and has to be turned off by a certain hour or within 2 hours of the business closing; that there are restrictions with regard to the intensity of the lighting, that it has to be set up in certain ways to minimize the impact of the lighting. A portion of that is in the existing ordinance; if there are specific suggestions, staff would be receptive to additional concepts, but much of what she heard is the concerns are already covered. Chair Giefer: • I thought that having a business come in for a sign program; a strip mall or such made sense, but I wanted to address the practicality of that because if you have one tenant that comes in, such as the Plaza across the street with Radio Shack; where they have the awning signs, which adds character to that building and when Bardies moved in they changed their sign program and changed the look and feel of the strip mall. Radio Shack remained as a consistent tenant, so they still have the awning with the signage on it. In my mind as I was reading what was proposed, I was thinking you may have one thing that worked, you have a change in tenant; if they come in and ask for a sign program to apply to that, it is going to be rolled in as tenant turnover. There is no impetus that the entire site changes once the program is put in place. Aarti Shrivastava: • If a program is approved, and someone comes in, they would have to modify that program if there is a substantial change and when they modify the program, they have to make sure that whatever is done as part of the change, keeps the harmony with the existing development. They can either just reface it or if they want to change it for one tenant, there are going to have to look at everything. • Said it was difficult to require a timeframe to implement the program. They basically have to do it all at one time; the program is approved and they have to implement the entire program. They typically see minor variations and unless you have a new owner who is looking at completely new tenants; you don't really see the big changes in sign programs. Cupertino Planning Commission 9 September 22, 2009 Chair Giefer: • With the way this is written wouldn't we still have that inconsistency where you have a new sign program that is not completely implemented. Aarti Shrivastava: Usually it is an enforcement issue, but when we modify a sign program we are required to look at the entire sign program and not just allow them to change that one sign. The idea of a sign program is to give people the ability to plug and play with new tenants; it is not to have something so distinctive that you need a big change every time. The change we are making is to raise the threshold where before if you had more than two tenants, we are now saying more than three; so some smaller shopping centers won't have to go through that. It is more onerous typically. Chair Giefer: • One of the clean up items that staff is making a recommendation on is non-conforming signs; you want to lengthen the period of time for them to become conforming, remove the sign or whatever, to 180 days, 6 months seems very long because if you have someone who has a sign which is not conforming, it is because they installed it and it doesn't conform to current code and then now we are telling them it is okay to have that non-conforming sign for 6 months? Aarti Shrivastava: • It is seen in the case of an older center that has had anon-conforming, illegally put in at the time, but now non-conforming just to re-tenant that one space, they now have to take the whole sign down and put up a new ground sign, that typically a three month gap basically between the old tenant and the new tenant; we find that six months is more reasonable. Once an old tenant leaves, it takes awhile to get a new tenant and we always find ourselves going through this when people are trying to re-tenant their shopping centers. Chair Giefer: • Are there examples of where I may have a legally non-conforming sign and have a tenant move out, and I have a new tenant; I am thinking about specifically the one where Florentines is, because it is a tall non-conforming sign; they changed the tenants on that non-conforming sign so we don't make them remove that sign, so how is this different. Aarti Shrivastava: • The case is usually exacerbated when you have one tenant buildings, that is usually where the big issue occurs; in multi-tenanted buildings you have enough tenants there to keep that sign. Bombay Oven is an example, where there is a single tenant building and it takes more than three months to re-tenant and they can't believe just to get somebody in, with minimal TIs they are going to have to spend about half the amount of TIs to put in a new sign now. Six months is a more reasonable period. Chair Giefer: • You showed the directional signs for the Town Center and those have just got very simple text on it to direct you to the correct building. If logos are added to that, we would not increase the size of those directional signs; we wouldn't end up with 4 foot wide or 4 foot tall directional signs on a post because it accommodated somebody's logo. It would continue to be whatever sign was approved as part of the sign program; there are some maximum sizes included. Colin Jung: • The maximum area of the directional sign has not changed; it is being given the flexibility of Cupertino Planning Commission 10 September 22, 2009 putting their company identification along with the direction, such as shipping for which business. Chair Giefer: • Relative to landmark signs, she said she was surprised to see the Crossroads sign included in that, with the signs that have been specified were they just let's go out and look at the old signs that aren't non-conforming or were they recommended by the public. Aarti Shrivastava: It stated they first had to be non-conforming; if the Planning Commission is interested, staff will follow up, but it is something that was brought up by businesses and property owners. Chair Giefer: • As a followup to an earlier question regarding the Loree Center sign; it has the marquis on the top and it looks like it was designed to have individual merchant's names on the planks below it. With this sign ordinance, could the owner go in and add those business names. Would they be allowed to go through and add the tenant names underneath that in that area; because it is a modification to something we are calling a marquis sign. Aarti Shrivastava: Said they could reface it with new tenant names and they could also structurally keep it standing where before they couldn't. They would have to take it down if it wasn't structurally sound; they cannot modify it to add new tenant names. Com. Kaneda: • The issue is that when somebody moves out of a tenant space, that owner needs to bring that sign up to code prior to leasing the space out; and sometimes it takes time to lease the space out. Perhaps another way to do it is to say they have to do it before the tenant moves in, or something similar. If we had been living with anon-conforming sign for 5 years, another 180 days isn't going to matter. I cannot see putting any timeframe on it except that when the new tenant moves in, the sign needs to be in place at that point. Is there some way to do that. Aarti Shrivastava: • Said the reason for the six months period is, if a building becomes empty, usually the single tenant building, and that sign is no longer used for three months; you have to take it down. Now we are saying you have to take it down within six months. The idea is, and that is where landmark signs are different, over time as signs go out of commission or not used any more, they get replaced by conforming signs. If you give them any length of time, it takes away from allowing signs to get more conforming over time unless there is major redevelopment. It is a problem; therefore they are given a timeframe. Chair Giefer opened the public hearing. Jennifer Griffin, Rancho Rinconada resident: • Said that San Jose recently changed their signage program to allow for larger signs. She said that Cupertino needs to make sure that before they do any drastic changes to allow an increase in the size of signage, that they don't compromise what they already have in Cupertino, which is elegant, well defined signs that advertise shops and businesses, for people to come to, but do not overwhelm the city. She said they should avoid large signs that would be more appropriate in San Francisco or along El Camino, or Highway 101. Cupertino is a beautiful city, with a beautiful green canopy, and the owners of commercial property and businesses in town, have Cupertino Planning Commission 11 September 22, 2009 the ability to have attractive signs. • She said she was impressed with the amount of time that Cupertino takes to review their sign ordinance which will result in quality signage. Said that she resides near the end of town where Loree Shopping Center is located and she liked the monument sign on the property. She urged the Commission to keep high quality, subtle signage in Cupertino; don't compromise. John ,Cupertino resident: • Said that the size of the sign should be considered; the business owners want good visibility from the sign, and take into consideration the view of the signs from the street. Keep the city looking attractive; the signs should be in keeping with the look of the neighborhood. Chair Giefer closed the public hearing. Com. Lee: • Said she felt it would have been more helpful to have more community input; and some things are at odds of each other; the businesses will always want bigger signs, more signs, more banners, brighter signs, and the residents might want something more muted, classier, and more aesthetic. Staff has done a good job to improve the readability, get rid of the redundancy; it is now easier to read; there are definitely some concerns regarding neon, neon should go to DRC; illuminated logos should go to DRC. Many residents are concerned about the dark sky, keeping it not so lit; wall signs directed to residences, should go to DRC. Com. Kaneda: • Said he had mixed feelings about community input because only 8 people showed up at the community meeting. He said he took exception to the landmarks, which are hideous. Possibly at some point there may be a very large sign that the city might want to approve, but they are few and far between; that is something you could either do as an exception or something like that. I am not thrilled with the landmark signs and not with the examples in the packets. He said he was fine with blade signs, corner buildings of double signs, logos, and ground signs. He is concerned about illumination; and understood the argument for restaurants even though it is probably not the best thing to do environmentally. Based on the section read by the attorney, it seems like that is a reasonable set of parameters as long as it is in force, because once an establishment closes down, they have an hour or two hours and they have to turn the lights out. Plenty of businesses have good signs; during his late night drive home, he has seen many signs lit up. Vice Chair Brophy: • Thanked staff for their work; the general focus of their efforts were accurate; to increase the area by which signs can be dealt with on an exempt basis as much as possible, and increasing what is left to be dealt with at the staff level. Said he did object to any of the changes made; relative to Com. Kaneda's comments, he said he agreed that the landmark signs are decrepit, not historic. In due course most of those will be taken care of on their own and the idea of allowing the signs to remain and allowing their owners to maintain them for however long they will before eventually they meet their end. It is an excellent idea. • Relative to the illumination issue, he said he felt it was covered by the ordinance language; in the future they will see something at the State level dealing with the question of illumination and he would support leaving it for another day and another level and let it go as it is. Com. Miller: • Said he appreciated staff's efforts; the changes are appropriate; the goal is to be a business- friendly town, and the concept of expediting the process of leaving most of the decisions to the Cupertino Planning Commission 12 September 22, 2009 staff level, of reducing the expense for applicants and the increase in flexibility is on tazget. • Said he supported the changes. Chair Giefer: • Said she was comfortable with the recommended changes except for neon; and the reason is having sat on many of the DRC meetings where they were approving sign exceptions, I feel very similazly to the way Com. Lee felt in that if there is an illuminated sign, it could potentially add an additional nuisance to a residential neighborhood. • At the DRC meetings, they got a lot of public feedback on the light cast off from illuminated signs, particularly ones that pertained to neon; that is where I learned that neon could actually be dialed back and could be less intense to satisfy the neighbors, and I think that I am not inclined to wait for the State to solve the problem, because I think the State has a lot of problems to solve and this is not likely at the top of their list now. Said she was more comfortable having neon and LED illuminated signs go to the DRC to provide extra comfort level for the residents and if it were a minor element in the trim, and we were more prescriptive and said that no more than 10% of the sign was to be neon or LED, you would have to come up with some pretty intricate computations to show that surface area. I would rather have those particulaz instances go to DRC to have somebody eyeball it and say "yes, let's go ahead and do it or not, and give the public an extra opportunity to come in and say it is a tasteful sign, no I cannot live with that sign that is shining in my bedroom. That would be my one objection to what I am reading. We have two commissioners who would like those to go to DRC, we don't have a majority on it unless someone else is interested in that position. Com. Kaneda: • Said he would support it. Com. Lee: • Said she wanted more, to expand on other things. Staff said most of the exceptions granted were for wall signs; she did not see the rationale to grant so many different exceptions, misc. exceptions, grant all these requests, when most of them, and it is basically 40 in 6 years, so that is like 6 or 7 a year, not really a lot; and we are proposing to recommend to City Council to change our sign ordinance that would really impact the aesthetics. • Pointed out that as a business owner, she knew she had one sign, did not have a ground sign for about 3 years and knows the importance of signs and signage. She said most of her clients heaz about her business through referrals or the building sign. Business owners that aze astute will know that if they want the sign, they will go through the exception process; they will work with staff; go to the DRC, work with the neighbors. By speed planning through the process, the process will get faster, but at the same time what is happening, is that by making it faster, the community input is lessened, and the additional review at the DRC is lessened and aesthetics can't really be changed. Chair Giefer: • While on the DRC, there was a lot of community feedback with the illuminated signs, and it was normally a neighbor that was affected by the illumination. Said she did not recall any neighbors saying they objected to additional wall signs. • Panera Breads is a good example; they had to come in and ask for an exception for their sign along the driveway; most astute business people know they can come in and ask for that. She said she didn't recall any conflict or any neighbors who objected to additional signs on the sides of buildings. That is why it was less of an issue; she did not have a problem with that. Cupertino Planning Commission 13 September 22, 2009 Aarti Shrivastava: • Noted that they would care about how they would look on a building, how they fit, that doesn't take away from that. It doesn't mean they can just go to the absolute maximum regardless of how it looks on a building. Staff will continue with the review they have done in the past. Vice Chair Brophy: • Staff said the typical exception application is $3,000 to $4,000 and takes two months, which for many businesses is a steep number. Chair Giefer's experience has just been the illumination issue that has been a matter of discussion. • Said he would prefer to just leave it at the illumination issue and not extend it further. Com. Lee: • Said the return on investment of building signs was 20:1; investment of $3,000 for an exception is worth it, more than external marketing, internal marketing, or putting an ad in the newspaper. Com. Kaneda: • Said he was not clear on the landmark sign; preferred not having any. Chair Giefer: • Said the landmark signs are nice to have; they are not saying they have to keep them and they are not protected historically, so as long as the center is there, business is going along, there is no impetus for you to remove it; some people's perspective, you cannot regulate taste. Com. Lee: • Said landmark signs will come in every 40 years; when it becomes retro again; presently she does not like the landmark signs; they are not architecturally superior. Chair Giefer: • Said she had no problem crossing the Crossroads off that, since she felt it was too contemporary and not kitschy at all. Vice Chair Brophy and Com. Miller: • Said they supported keeping the landmark sign. Motion: Motion by Com. Kaneda, second by Vice Chair Brophy, and carried 41, to pprove Application MCA-2009-01 with the modification that neon and LED signs continue to go to the DRC for review. Coms. Giefer, Brophy, Miller and Kaneda Yes; Com. Lee voted No. OLD BUSINESS• None NEW BUSINESS• None REPORT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION Environmental Review Committee: • Chair Giefer reported that the hillside subdivision of Regnart Road was discussed. Housing Commission: Cupertino Planning Commission 14 September 22, 2009 • Com. Kaneda reported that the Housing Commission made a recommendation to City Council to enter into a Memorandum of Understanding to develop affordable senior housing along the Mary Avenue right-of--way. Mayor's Monthly Meeting With Commissioners: No meeting. Economic Development Committee: No meeting. Report of the Director of Community Development: • Announced that the online permitting has begun for minor permits; • The State's review of the housing element was received; staff is responding to questions about some sites. • Received the 2009 projections from ABAG; staff will compile a table similar to the prior one submitted. Numbers haven't changed drastically; some have gone down in final adjustments; an updated report will be provided in a future Director's report. Adjournment: The meeting was adjourned to the next regular Planning Commission meeting scheduled for October 13, 2009 at 6:45 p.m. Respectfully Submitted: /s/Elizabeth Ellis Elizabeth Ellis, Recording Secretary